Event - no realm tasks for a weekend?

Started 27 Feb 2019
by opossum12
in RvR
The concept of having rvr tasks is a good one I think, it promotes rvr and it promotes having people try to participate even if they aren’t sure of getting kills.

However, the current rvr tasks sre just plain wierd, you get s bunch of different objectives that aren’t really connected and that don’t really connect with the daoc DNA. It feels more like a console game than the mmorpg that it once was.

In the begging of beta, there weren’t any RvR tasks. They came along because people started complaining that there was no action. However, the beta population had iirc around 500 people online at once, now we have at peak over 3k.

The rvr tasks are concentrating the rvr into very small areas and therefore leads to massive zerging. It removes a really fun aspect of daoc which is roaming.

I’d be curious to see what would happen if they removed rvr tasks for a weekend. See how the players react and how that will change action.

I know we need to find a way to get casuals in the game and keepnthem there and that’s where zerging is beneficial to the game, but right now zerging represents 99% of the rvr action, which isn’t healthy.

Depending on what happens, I think a roll back to simplify the rvr tasks is needed. My opinion is that the current tasks are over complicated to solve an issue (lack of rvr action) that might not even be a problem.

What I would do:
1. Remove tasks for a weekend to observe how players behavior change
2. Depending on the results, implement extremely simple rvr tasks.

Example:
Task #1 : participate in open field rvr (get bonus rps for showing up to fights) - get a bit of rps (not a lot)
Task #2 : roaming with friends - in a group, get task credit by getting deathblows in open field rvr. Make this in levels. Bonus rps bigger than task #1
Task #3 : keep kills - get task credit for getting deathblows within a radius of a keep. In levels as well.

The biggest mistake of the current tasks is that specify a zone to be in tonget credit. I think the devs should roll back by starting to reward RvR participation in general, then if action is too spread out and feels like a ghost town, then go and start implementing zone specific tasks.

My 2 cents.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:23 PM by tylerforeal
I agree. I also think trying to do the tasks every other hour, one hour on one hour off, would benefit everyone while not being overly dramatic.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:34 PM by Luluko
I think everyone would go emain then, mid/alb have too many trees/hills and aggro mobs to deal with, a few people would prlly camp the xp areas of the other realms but it would be so crowded there that soon nobody would show up there to xp. (grps usually dont care to protect their xpers in the frontier and I doubt any ganker grps would continue to go there if they have to run that far just to get killed by a fg)

Also a huge number would prlly not login at all or just do pve.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:44 PM by defiasbandit
You would see much fewer players doing RvR.

Most of them would zerging AMG in Emain.

The rest would be in Odins with a few in Hadrians.

So no.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:44 PM by Zansobar
Luluko wrote:
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:34 PM
I think everyone would go emain then, mid/alb have too many trees/hills and aggro mobs to deal with, a few people would prlly camp the xp areas of the other realms but it would be so crowded there that soon nobody would show up there to xp. (grps usually dont care to protect their xpers in the frontier and I doubt any ganker grps would continue to go there if they have to run that far just to get killed by a fg)

Also a huge number would prlly not login at all or just do pve.

I agree, I think a large number wouldn't venture into the frontiers and either PvE or go play another game.
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:52 PM by Luluko
Zansobar wrote:
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:44 PM
Luluko wrote:
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:34 PM
I think everyone would go emain then, mid/alb have too many trees/hills and aggro mobs to deal with, a few people would prlly camp the xp areas of the other realms but it would be so crowded there that soon nobody would show up there to xp. (grps usually dont care to protect their xpers in the frontier and I doubt any ganker grps would continue to go there if they have to run that far just to get killed by a fg)

Also a huge number would prlly not login at all or just do pve.

I agree, I think a large number wouldn't venture into the frontiers and either PvE or go play another game.

yeah the game isnt casual enough for people which arent that good at it and if you at least have those tasks rps for hitting someone even if you dont kill them and they die to another grp/realm you still get credit and with the realmtask they get at least some progression and come back
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:06 PM by Dimir
Luluko wrote:
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:34 PM
Also a huge number would prlly not login at all or just do pve.

If this is true then I don't think tasks are sustainable in the long term. If the only thing keeping RvR alive are these tasks then after a month people will simply be tired of them and all quit.

defiasbandit wrote: You would see much fewer players doing RvR.

Most of them would zerging AMG in Emain.

The rest would be in Odins with a few in Hadrians.

So no.

The point of this post is to experiment, hell, make it a single day, just to see what happens. I think the zerg would go to emain, but I think there would be some action in the other zones instead of zero. If you're right and its a disaster then we learned something. Science yo
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:35 PM by Luluko
Dimir wrote:
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:06 PM
Luluko wrote:
Wed 27 Feb 2019 9:34 PM
Also a huge number would prlly not login at all or just do pve.

If this is true then I don't think tasks are sustainable in the long term. If the only thing keeping RvR alive are these tasks then after a month people will simply be tired of them and all quit.

defiasbandit wrote: You would see much fewer players doing RvR.

Most of them would zerging AMG in Emain.

The rest would be in Odins with a few in Hadrians.

So no.

The point of this post is to experiment, hell, make it a single day, just to see what happens. I think the zerg would go to emain, but I think there would be some action in the other zones instead of zero. If you're right and its a disaster then we learned something. Science yo
it could work if they would also give a rpbonus to kills but just losing out on rps wont be taken kindly by most people
Wed 27 Feb 2019 10:55 PM by cuuchulain79
I'd be interested to see the outcome.

I am worried though, that a population very used to bonus points, and free character development, will need increasingly more and more bonuses to stay interested...rather than building a true interest in playing their character, and doing it anyway if the free bonus is gone.

I do think there's room to keep developing the task system though and keep it fun for all...but I do think it's already become integral to the server.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:36 AM by opossum12
Yes the goal is to experiment, I am not saying that it is the ultimate solution.

What I am saying is that the tasks were developed in order to solve an issue in beta, where people were not finding consistent action. The exact reason, we don’t know.

If the only reason people stay is because of free bonus RPs, how is that a sustainable model?

By the way I’m not saying kill the casuals, that’s not the point. I just think people are very quick at predicting what would happen without even trying.

Just remove tasks for two days, see what happens. That’s all.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:00 AM by Zansobar
opossum12 wrote:
Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:36 AM
Yes the goal is to experiment, I am not saying that it is the ultimate solution.

What I am saying is that the tasks were developed in order to solve an issue in beta, where people were not finding consistent action. The exact reason, we don’t know.

If the only reason people stay is because of free bonus RPs, how is that a sustainable model?

By the way I’m not saying kill the casuals, that’s not the point. I just think people are very quick at predicting what would happen without even trying.

Just remove tasks for two days, see what happens. That’s all.

I'm not sure what you mean by "If the only reason people stay is because of free bonus RPs, how is that a sustainable model? " do you mean you think tasks are free rps and for some reason that isn't sustainable? How is it not sustainable? People like character progression in RPGs and people like action with rp gain in RvR, tasks provide this, how is it not sustainable?
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:36 AM by Frigzy
Zansobar wrote:
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:00 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by "If the only reason people stay is because of free bonus RPs, how is that a sustainable model? " do you mean you think tasks are free rps and for some reason that isn't sustainable? How is it not sustainable? People like character progression in RPGs and people like action with rp gain in RvR, tasks provide this, how is it not sustainable?

Because while free rps are fun at first, soon enough you realise you are being held hostage by them. Everyone 'likes' free rps so everyone swarms the task area. Now when you actually don't want the type of action that is going on in the task area you are stuck because virtually ALL action is there. So you end up joining the free rps ratrace or spend loads of time running in virtually empty RvR zones. It's like fast food. Everyone 'likes' it, but no sane person lives only on fast food. It's not sustainable.

People will get tired of free rps. DAoC is not just seeing your realmlevels rise. It's about fun and challenging pvp battles. The free RP task system is actually harming the possibility of those fights to happen for some players.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 11:48 AM by opossum12
Frigzy wrote:
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:36 AM
Zansobar wrote:
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:00 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by "If the only reason people stay is because of free bonus RPs, how is that a sustainable model? " do you mean you think tasks are free rps and for some reason that isn't sustainable? How is it not sustainable? People like character progression in RPGs and people like action with rp gain in RvR, tasks provide this, how is it not sustainable?

Because while free rps are fun at first, soon enough you realise you are being held hostage by them. Everyone 'likes' free rps so everyone swarms the task area. Now when you actually don't want the type of action that is going on in the task area you are stuck because virtually ALL action is there. So you end up joining the free rps ratrace or spend loads of time running in virtually empty RvR zones. It's like fast food. Everyone 'likes' it, but no sane person lives only on fast food. It's not sustainable.

People will get tired of free rps. DAoC is not just seeing your realmlevels rise. It's about fun and challenging pvp battles. The free RP task system is actually harming the possibility of those fights to happen for some players.

Pretty much this. You give people free RPs to have them come out to rvr. What donyou do when they get bored? Increase the amount of free RPs. You never took the time to understand why people are bored in rvr.

Running around flags is fun for a night or two, but it gets old really fast. I think the new tasks are a slight improvement over the old because the objectives are more broad.

The « give RPs so ppl come out to play » is not sustainable and you don’t need to look very far for an example, just look at Ywain. Ran there the other night, made 150k RPs with 60 kills in roughly 2 hrs. Action was a big pile of doodoo, but the only action they took towards stabilizing population is to constantly increase the amount of bonus RPs you get in rvr. It doesn’t solve anything about the game being fun. It’s just a band aid.
Thu 28 Feb 2019 2:13 PM by Dragonn
opossum12 wrote:
Wed 27 Feb 2019 11:56 AM
The concept of having rvr tasks is a good one I think, it promotes rvr and it promotes having people try to participate even if they aren’t sure of getting kills.

However, the current rvr tasks sre just plain wierd, you get s bunch of different objectives that aren’t really connected and that don’t really connect with the daoc DNA. It feels more like a console game than the mmorpg that it once was.

In the begging of beta, there weren’t any RvR tasks. They came along because people started complaining that there was no action. However, the beta population had iirc around 500 people online at once, now we have at peak over 3k.

The rvr tasks are concentrating the rvr into very small areas and therefore leads to massive zerging. It removes a really fun aspect of daoc which is roaming.

I’d be curious to see what would happen if they removed rvr tasks for a weekend. See how the players react and how that will change action.

I know we need to find a way to get casuals in the game and keepnthem there and that’s where zerging is beneficial to the game, but right now zerging represents 99% of the rvr action, which isn’t healthy.

Depending on what happens, I think a roll back to simplify the rvr tasks is needed. My opinion is that the current tasks are over complicated to solve an issue (lack of rvr action) that might not even be a problem.

What I would do:
1. Remove tasks for a weekend to observe how players behavior change
2. Depending on the results, implement extremely simple rvr tasks.

Example:
Task #1 : participate in open field rvr (get bonus rps for showing up to fights) - get a bit of rps (not a lot)
Task #2 : roaming with friends - in a group, get task credit by getting deathblows in open field rvr. Make this in levels. Bonus rps bigger than task #1
Task #3 : keep kills - get task credit for getting deathblows within a radius of a keep. In levels as well.

The biggest mistake of the current tasks is that specify a zone to be in tonget credit. I think the devs should roll back by starting to reward RvR participation in general, then if action is too spread out and feels like a ghost town, then go and start implementing zone specific tasks.

My 2 cents.

Good idea
Thu 28 Feb 2019 3:25 PM by opossum12
There are some flaws in the example I posted initially.

Task #2 roaming with friends : you need to get deathblows in RvR. What we've seen on Ywain is that it leads to big fish eats small fish type of action, where zergs hunt down 8 man, while 8 man hunt smallman/soloers. This is caused by the amount of bonus RPs you get for completing that task (25k RPs for 25 kills). You would have Clumsy zerg running circles in Ellan Vanin (the new Agramon) in order to complete their roaming tasks instead of hitting and

There is a very fine balance to find between the amount of bonus RPs and kill RPs. That ratio I believe is what will drive behavior.

You don't want to make a system where zerging other people down is the fastest way to make RPs. You want to promote fair fight behavior, where zergs hunt zergs, groups hunt groups, smallman hunt smallman and soloers hunt soloers.
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