Berserker's.... & BM's - Phoenix Freeshard

This is just now ridiculous..

Why should anyone in mid play a zerker.. they are complet grabage..

...meanwhile in Hibernia, BM's is dancing naked in heavenly leafs of victory!
Hibs are without doubt the best tank realm with 3 classes that can anytime slam and one of them (BM) that alone can get one light tank to 10% in 9sec if purges not up.

Just curious why phx choose to gimp a class that can't slam and players can dodge styles and boost a class that can slam so player can't escape if purge is down.

Dunno, if i'am out in the blue here now but.. that can't be right or? And also, this are maybe posted in the wrong thread, idk.. I'm sorry if so.

Sat 13 Apr 2019 3:56 PM by Natebruner

I think you are on to something here

Sat 13 Apr 2019 4:10 PM by jhaerik

A lot of people are starting to notice things like this.

Which is why you have pop numbers like this on a Saturday during euro/na time.

Game Server: Up - Last Update: 1 days 3 hours 2 minutes ago
Albion: 695 Midgard: 737 Hibernia: 652

Compared to 4200 less than 2 months ago.

Sat 13 Apr 2019 5:54 PM by Turtle006

The RPs gained for BMs and Zerkers are very similar for this week. In fact other than 2 RR10 BMs, Zerkers seem to have gained a more RPs for the week. What exactly are you saying is the issue?

(Just for completeness, Mercs are pretty comparable as well)

Also, before the accusations of realm bias, I play an Armsman mainly, so Zerker/BM balance doesn't really matter to me, I am slamming both of them.

Sat 13 Apr 2019 6:49 PM by Natebruner

I think he is saying zerks can use a boost in damage.

I agree!

Sat 13 Apr 2019 9:18 PM by Luluko

Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Apr 2019 5:54 PM
The RPs gained for BMs and Zerkers are very similar for this week. In fact other than 2 RR10 BMs, Zerkers seem to have gained a more RPs for the week. What exactly are you saying is the issue?

(Just for completeness, Mercs are pretty comparable as well)

Also, before the accusations of realm bias, I play an Armsman mainly, so Zerker/BM balance doesn't really matter to me, I am slamming both of them.

rp gain has no relevance that just translates to people which play a lot and could be zerged together with a grp with some social spots and if you have a svg to stun for you zerk isnt that bad

but if you pay attention to solo kills you will see a pattern:
https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills?time-frame=all-time&filter=light-tanks

zerk is nowhere near mercs/bms, they need some positional stun or access to shields aswell

Sun 14 Apr 2019 1:16 PM by dudis

I'm all for giving zerks and SBs a 4 or 5 sec side stun in LA.

Sun 14 Apr 2019 6:11 PM by Turtle006

Luluko wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Apr 2019 9:18 PM
Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Apr 2019 5:54 PM
The RPs gained for BMs and Zerkers are very similar for this week. In fact other than 2 RR10 BMs, Zerkers seem to have gained a more RPs for the week. What exactly are you saying is the issue?

(Just for completeness, Mercs are pretty comparable as well)

Also, before the accusations of realm bias, I play an Armsman mainly, so Zerker/BM balance doesn't really matter to me, I am slamming both of them.

rp gain has no relevance that just translates to people which play a lot and could be zerged together with a grp with some social spots and if you have a svg to stun for you zerk isnt that bad

but if you pay attention to solo kills you will see a pattern:
https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills?time-frame=all-time&filter=light-tanks

zerk is nowhere near mercs/bms, they need some positional stun or access to shields aswell

So your argument is that a class that has no issues getting groups, has no issues when partnered with a stun buddy, has no issues getting RPs, and is in the most populated realm needs a boost?

Sun 14 Apr 2019 6:37 PM by Luluko

Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 6:11 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Apr 2019 9:18 PM
Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Apr 2019 5:54 PM
The RPs gained for BMs and Zerkers are very similar for this week. In fact other than 2 RR10 BMs, Zerkers seem to have gained a more RPs for the week. What exactly are you saying is the issue?

(Just for completeness, Mercs are pretty comparable as well)

Also, before the accusations of realm bias, I play an Armsman mainly, so Zerker/BM balance doesn't really matter to me, I am slamming both of them.

rp gain has no relevance that just translates to people which play a lot and could be zerged together with a grp with some social spots and if you have a svg to stun for you zerk isnt that bad

but if you pay attention to solo kills you will see a pattern:
https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills?time-frame=all-time&filter=light-tanks

zerk is nowhere near mercs/bms, they need some positional stun or access to shields aswell

So your argument is that a class that has no issues getting groups, has no issues when partnered with a stun buddy, has no issues getting RPs, and is in the most populated realm needs a boost?

Lets just say certain classes arent always optimal in slot arms/warry are also pretty crappy compared to a hero with free ip every 30mins or what the timer was there. Also your argument most populated realm... ever heard of the saying Quality over Quantity? There are a ton of bad players out there which are pretty much just free rps to good hib/alb grps. You people should be happy that mid is so well populated to feed you rps. Just look at this https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/realmpoints?time-frame=all-time&filter=all
most of the stuff on top is green and the first zerk shows at spot 67 while bm is place 4. Not that all high rrs are good players that also just translates to played a lot. But zerk is certainly just a second grade svg without any positional stun.

Sun 14 Apr 2019 9:00 PM by Turtle006

Luluko wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 6:37 PM
Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 6:11 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Apr 2019 9:18 PM
rp gain has no relevance that just translates to people which play a lot and could be zerged together with a grp with some social spots and if you have a svg to stun for you zerk isnt that bad

but if you pay attention to solo kills you will see a pattern:
https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/solokills?time-frame=all-time&filter=light-tanks

zerk is nowhere near mercs/bms, they need some positional stun or access to shields aswell

So your argument is that a class that has no issues getting groups, has no issues when partnered with a stun buddy, has no issues getting RPs, and is in the most populated realm needs a boost?
Lets just say certain classes arent always optimal in slot arms/warry are also pretty crappy compared to a hero with free ip every 30mins or what the timer was there. Also your argument most populated realm... ever heard of the saying Quality over Quantity? There are a ton of bad players out there which are pretty much just free rps to good hib/alb grps. You people should be happy that mid is so well populated to feed you rps. Just look at this https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/realmpoints?time-frame=all-time&filter=all
most of the stuff on top is green and the first zerk shows at spot 67 while bm is place 4. Not that all high rrs are good players that also just translates to played a lot. But zerk is certainly just a second grade svg without any positional stun.

NIce dodge, you must have advanced evade. Want to actually answer my question? Are you asking for a buff to a class that has no issues getting groups or RPs in the most populated realm?

Sun 14 Apr 2019 10:33 PM by Luluko

Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 9:00 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 6:37 PM
Turtle006 wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 6:11 PM
So your argument is that a class that has no issues getting groups, has no issues when partnered with a stun buddy, has no issues getting RPs, and is in the most populated realm needs a boost?
Lets just say certain classes arent always optimal in slot arms/warry are also pretty crappy compared to a hero with free ip every 30mins or what the timer was there. Also your argument most populated realm... ever heard of the saying Quality over Quantity? There are a ton of bad players out there which are pretty much just free rps to good hib/alb grps. You people should be happy that mid is so well populated to feed you rps. Just look at this https://herald.playphoenix.online/characters/realmpoints?time-frame=all-time&filter=all
most of the stuff on top is green and the first zerk shows at spot 67 while bm is place 4. Not that all high rrs are good players that also just translates to played a lot. But zerk is certainly just a second grade svg without any positional stun.

NIce dodge, you must have advanced evade. Want to actually answer my question? Are you asking for a buff to a class that has no issues getting groups or RPs in the most populated realm?

Oh should I have written "yes" or is it too much to ask from you to actually read what I wrote and also think about it and look at the numbers which dont lie, guess it was and the earth is flat. Amen! Nothing to see here zerk is fine! They are able to get in grps all is fine!

Mon 15 Apr 2019 4:06 AM by Sofely

Stop complaining like this hehe.

People who plays Zerk (like me) are happy and its very easy to get groups as soon as we know to play it a little !

Mon 15 Apr 2019 6:02 AM by vanillaface

Sofely wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 4:06 AM
Stop complaining like this hehe.

People who plays Zerk (like me) are happy and its very easy to get groups as soon as we know to play it a little !

The truth is tho.. we have been grping togehter many times and even that you are rr7+ we actually have trying to get a good svg before you.. And its not because you are a bad player, because you aint! Its pure because the class you play is garbage compare to any other dps tank on this server.

Ask any high lvl grp on mid what they choose between a svg or a zerk.. and you will see.
And also.. Mid have always been eazy to pug with.. and thats also why many people are on mid.. Its eazy to just join in and go.. but that does not change the fact that zerker are gimped ... Someone told me, that zerker was good in beta.. What did they have in bete that they don't have now?

Mon 15 Apr 2019 7:58 AM by Sofely

vanillaface wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 6:02 AM
Sofely wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 4:06 AM
Stop complaining like this hehe.

People who plays Zerk (like me) are happy and its very easy to get groups as soon as we know to play it a little !

The truth is tho.. we have been grping togehter many times and even that you are rr7+ we actually have trying to get a good svg before you.. And its not because you are a bad player, because you aint! Its pure because the class you play is garbage compare to any other dps tank on this server.

Ask any high lvl grp on mid what they choose between a svg or a zerk.. and you will see.
And also.. Mid have always been eazy to pug with.. and thats also why many people are on mid.. Its eazy to just join in and go.. but that does not change the fact that zerker are gimped ... Someone told me, that zerker was good in beta.. What did they have in bete that they don't have now?

My luck there are not many good svg so

That’s a bit sad anyway because people seems to forgot that we play a game for « fun », and not only for overoptimized set ups and fights.

(I didn’t played on beta so i dont know how it was, but for sure if we can have some upgrades i won’t say no!)

Mon 15 Apr 2019 9:15 AM by Aph

Is the stun really that important? If u alrdy have 1 svg in the train I Can’t see the point. Only thing I can think of is that svgs are harder to peel? This should be the focus of the topic tbh...

Mon 15 Apr 2019 10:14 AM by jelzinga_EU

Aph wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 9:15 AM
Is the stun really that important? If u alrdy have 1 svg in the train I Can’t see the point. Only thing I can think of is that svgs are harder to peel? This should be the focus of the topic tbh...

Zerks have poor style-selection (Left-Axe does not even have a side-positional) and no access to Slam like BM/Merc. To top it off they do not have access to 3 damage-types like their BM/Merc brethren *and* wear slash-weak armour.Oh and Flurry? No, we take that away from Zerks too. Then you really wonder what is wrong with zerks..

So yeah, it becomes pretty obvious that any other light-tank is better than a zerk - and when a zerk asks for something you wonder "do they really need it?".

Mon 15 Apr 2019 11:50 AM by Warlay

yes la line needs really much an overhowl for berserker and sb, we need our sidestun and the dd should be 2 style chain not 3. valewalker for example has his sidestun and ae dd for 220+dmg in one style chain.

Mon 15 Apr 2019 12:06 PM by Luluko

Aph wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 9:15 AM
Is the stun really that important? If u alrdy have 1 svg in the train I Can’t see the point. Only thing I can think of is that svgs are harder to peel? This should be the focus of the topic tbh...

not only that if you consider more than just 8vs8 you cant peel as effective as a bm or merc would, you cant interrupt quickcasts with a stun without having anyone to do it for you, and like someone wrote you only have 2 damage types and also no flurry and no engage vs archers, zerk is crap compared to other LTs. The only things which are good about zerk is they are resistant to pierce/thrust damage, troll as race for lots of strength and vendo which is good if you know how to use it, even tho it disables all parrying/evading so pretty bad in 1vs1 or if you have a peeler or any other melee on you. In 8vs8 they can burst down casters pretty quick sure if you have purge up if you get slammed right away what usually happens vs good hib grps.

Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:09 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Saying Berserkers are "trash" is laughably ludicrous. Berserker dps potential is amazing, especially in vendo.

The only thing I'd like to see for both SBs and Zerkers is a 4-5s side stun in LA. That would actually solve two problems at once.

But no, zerkers aren't trash.

Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:48 PM by Sharky04

vanillaface wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Apr 2019 3:38 PM
This is just now ridiculous..

Why should anyone in mid play a zerker.. they are complet grabage..

...meanwhile in Hibernia, BM's is dancing naked in heavenly leafs of victory!

Obviously you have never died in 2 seconds to a savage. Happens every day to most hib casters.

Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:52 PM by vanillaface

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:09 PM
Saying Berserkers are "trash" is laughably ludicrous. Berserker dps potential is amazing, especially in vendo.

The only thing I'd like to see for both SBs and Zerkers is a 4-5s side stun in LA. That would actually solve two problems at once.

But no, zerkers aren't trash.

Compared to a BM/Merc/Svg they sure are.. and they are also something that can stun you!..
I dear you do make a ex: lvl 50 Skald, Get templated and get one from each side to plain and simple hit you down....

But there is absolutely no talking about giving zerker a stun or something.. Its just funny that something that can stun you can put out way more dps then something that can't.. its maybe not the zerker that are trash.. Its maybe the others that are extremely OP?.. idk...

And are the anyone that knows what zerker had in beta that they dont have now?

Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:59 PM by Doiri

vanillaface wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:52 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:09 PM
Saying Berserkers are "trash" is laughably ludicrous. Berserker dps potential is amazing, especially in vendo.

The only thing I'd like to see for both SBs and Zerkers is a 4-5s side stun in LA. That would actually solve two problems at once.

But no, zerkers aren't trash.

Compared to a BM/Merc/Svg they sure are.. and they are also something that can stun you!..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r-8L00vxZE&feature=youtu.be

Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:00 PM by Amp_Phetamine

vanillaface wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:52 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:09 PM
Saying Berserkers are "trash" is laughably ludicrous. Berserker dps potential is amazing, especially in vendo.

The only thing I'd like to see for both SBs and Zerkers is a 4-5s side stun in LA. That would actually solve two problems at once.

But no, zerkers aren't trash.

Compared to a BM/Merc/Svg they sure are.. and they are also something that can stun you!..
I dear you do make a ex: lvl 50 Skald, Get templated and get one from each side to plain and simple hit you down.. and you will see.

But there is absolutely no talking about giving zerker a stun or something.. Its just funny that something that can stun you can put out way more dps then something that can't.. its maybe not the zerker that are trash.. Its maybe the others that are extremely OP?.. idk...

And are the anyone that knows what zerker had in beta that they dont have now?

Wut the fudge did I just read...

Only thing the Berserker "needs" is a side stun in LA

I can provide you with dps caps on my mercenary against lvl50 26% resist training dummies - as far as your "dare" the burden is on you bud.

But I'd bet plat that a 50/50 spec zerker doesn't get out damaged by a 50/42/39 merc/bm spec - that's why my merc is 50/50 lol

Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:36 PM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:00 PM
vanillaface wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:52 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:09 PM
Saying Berserkers are "trash" is laughably ludicrous. Berserker dps potential is amazing, especially in vendo.

The only thing I'd like to see for both SBs and Zerkers is a 4-5s side stun in LA. That would actually solve two problems at once.

But no, zerkers aren't trash.

Compared to a BM/Merc/Svg they sure are.. and they are also something that can stun you!..
I dear you do make a ex: lvl 50 Skald, Get templated and get one from each side to plain and simple hit you down.. and you will see.

But there is absolutely no talking about giving zerker a stun or something.. Its just funny that something that can stun you can put out way more dps then something that can't.. its maybe not the zerker that are trash.. Its maybe the others that are extremely OP?.. idk...

And are the anyone that knows what zerker had in beta that they dont have now?

Wut the fudge did I just read...

Only thing the Berserker "needs" is a side stun in LA

I can provide you with dps caps on my mercenary against lvl50 26% resist training dummies - as far as your "dare" the burden is on you bud.

But I'd bet plat that a 50/50 spec zerker doesn't get out damaged by a 50/42/39 merc/bm spec - that's why my merc is 50/50 lol

that depends on the situation and what you are hitting, do u have cele/damage add active, what kind of armor you are hitting and if you do slash or crush specc sure zerkers can outdps bms/mercs easiely if everything is in their favour but damage isnt everything and the huge difference is especially solo you cant just stun someone and receive no damage for the next 9seconds from this toon and you cant just slam 2 infis and burst one down what bms/mercs can do then pull ip and kill the second one aswell

zerks are trash solo and in combination with a skald aswell since skald also has no decent stun that even a svg without a healer would be better

Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:46 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:36 PM
that depends on the situation and what you are hitting, do u have cele/damage add active, what kind of armor you are hitting and if you do slash or crush specc sure zerkers can outdps bms/mercs easiely if everything is in their favour but damage isnt everything and the huge difference is especially solo you cant just stun someone and receive no damage for the next 9seconds from this toon and you cant just slam 2 infis and burst one down what bms/mercs can do then pull ip and kill the second one aswell
zerks are trash solo and in combination with a skald aswell since skald also has no decent stun while a svg even with the hp costs for buffs would be better

I don't bother with shield spec on my merc. I perform far better 50/50 spec and have beaten a few shield spec blademasters with having better dps output and higher weapon skill.

... Skalds are probably one of the most difficult classes on the server to beat solo (if you think they're also "trash" because they don't have a 1 part stun you honestly have no idea what you're talking about :/).

Berserkers are not trash solo. If you want to solo on a berserker, spec reflex attack 4/5, purge 2/3 and dump into mastery of pain asap.

Mon 15 Apr 2019 4:46 PM by Doiri

Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:36 PM
[...]

you cant just slam 2 infis and burst one down what bms/mercs can do then pull ip and kill the second one aswell

zerks are trash solo

[...]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_KahiLj8gw&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAAL9GIS9P8&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo0Clo3pjGE&feature=youtu.be

Even nate is mocking this thread

Natebruner wrote: ↑
Sat 13 Apr 2019 6:49 PM
I think he is saying zerks can use a boost in damage.

I agree!

Mon 15 Apr 2019 5:35 PM by jelzinga_EU

Doiri wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:59 PM
vanillaface wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:52 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 2:09 PM
Saying Berserkers are "trash" is laughably ludicrous. Berserker dps potential is amazing, especially in vendo.

The only thing I'd like to see for both SBs and Zerkers is a 4-5s side stun in LA. That would actually solve two problems at once.

But no, zerkers aren't trash.

Compared to a BM/Merc/Svg they sure are.. and they are also something that can stun you!..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r-8L00vxZE&feature=youtu.be

1 used: Class-specific skill, Purge and IP2 and is loaded with Reflex Attack. The other is not. Guess who wins ...

Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:13 AM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:46 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:36 PM
that depends on the situation and what you are hitting, do u have cele/damage add active, what kind of armor you are hitting and if you do slash or crush specc sure zerkers can outdps bms/mercs easiely if everything is in their favour but damage isnt everything and the huge difference is especially solo you cant just stun someone and receive no damage for the next 9seconds from this toon and you cant just slam 2 infis and burst one down what bms/mercs can do then pull ip and kill the second one aswell
zerks are trash solo and in combination with a skald aswell since skald also has no decent stun while a svg even with the hp costs for buffs would be better

I don't bother with shield spec on my merc. I perform far better 50/50 spec and have beaten a few shield spec blademasters with having better dps output and higher weapon skill.

... Skalds are probably one of the most difficult classes on the server to beat solo (if you think they're also "trash" because they don't have a 1 part stun you honestly have no idea what you're talking about :/).

Berserkers are not trash solo. If you want to solo on a berserker, spec reflex attack 4/5, purge 2/3 and dump into mastery of pain asap.

If you consider 1 run kill one or two infis with vendo and then die and that specc soloing guess you are right zerk must be awesome. If you ever wanna fight something like a reaver or champ or maybe a duo with bard or minst you could run into difficulties if they are able to snare/cc you in vendo and just kite it out or use sos (they couldnt as easiely if zerk had a positional stun and their purge is down) and reslam you and your purge is down while a bm/merc could do that aswell. Also sounds pretty horrible if you ever wanna grp with shaman or skald with reflex attack you better dont come anywhere near a rooted/snared target. But if you consider the server state and no speed for soloing realistical you will have have to look at a skald/zerk duo and while they surely can kill stuff, with 9sec slam they perform way better.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:59 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:13 AM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:46 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:36 PM
that depends on the situation and what you are hitting, do u have cele/damage add active, what kind of armor you are hitting and if you do slash or crush specc sure zerkers can outdps bms/mercs easiely if everything is in their favour but damage isnt everything and the huge difference is especially solo you cant just stun someone and receive no damage for the next 9seconds from this toon and you cant just slam 2 infis and burst one down what bms/mercs can do then pull ip and kill the second one aswell
zerks are trash solo and in combination with a skald aswell since skald also has no decent stun while a svg even with the hp costs for buffs would be better

I don't bother with shield spec on my merc. I perform far better 50/50 spec and have beaten a few shield spec blademasters with having better dps output and higher weapon skill.

... Skalds are probably one of the most difficult classes on the server to beat solo (if you think they're also "trash" because they don't have a 1 part stun you honestly have no idea what you're talking about :/).

Berserkers are not trash solo. If you want to solo on a berserker, spec reflex attack 4/5, purge 2/3 and dump into mastery of pain asap.
If you consider 1 run kill one or two infis with vendo and then die and that specc soloing guess you are right zerk must be awesome. If you ever wanna fight something like a reaver or champ or maybe a duo with bard or minst you could run into difficulties if they are able to snare/cc you in vendo and just kite it out or use sos (they couldnt as easiely if zerk had a positional stun and their purge is down) and reslam you and your purge is down while a bm/merc could do that aswell. Also sounds pretty horrible if you ever wanna grp with shaman or skald with reflex attack you better dont come anywhere near a rooted/snared target. But if you consider the server state and no speed for soloing realistical you will have have to look at a skald/zerk duo and while they surely can kill stuff, with 9sec slam they perform way better.

I do consider getting a kill or two per run as a visible solo to be a successful run, especially on a non skald. Coming from a solo visi, that is a good run. I lose to champs and thanes on my mercenary as well? Does that mean Mercenaries also need buffs? I get snared/CC'd by skalds on my Mercenary as well, does that mean I also need buffs? Not sure why you're pointing out the inefficiencies of RA in regards to CC breaking, this discussion was about "zerkers are trash solo". Obviously a skald/zerker would perform better with slam, but neither class needs it. Shield spec on a skald or zerker would be hilariously over powered. 9s slam, no purge, into vendo dps? Lol.

Really think the legit issue is a 'player skill' issue and not a class issue. Best of luck out there on your berserker.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:47 PM by jelzinga_EU

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:00 PM
I can provide you with dps caps on my mercenary against lvl50 26% resist training dummies - as far as your "dare" the burden is on you bud.

But I'd bet plat that a 50/50 spec zerker doesn't get out damaged by a 50/42/39 merc/bm spec - that's why my merc is 50/50 lol

Totally situational. But a 50/42/39 BM/Merc has the exact same damage as a 50/50 one - assuming he's using CD/DW-styles.

Since generally positionals > anytimes (or Dual Shadows, in your case) a merc with Slam can go Slam --> Flank, Shadow's Rain, Flank, Shadow's Rain and do more damage than you can. Now add the fact slammed people can't dodge/parry/block and you will understand that generally having slam is better DPS.

50/50 is probably the lowest DPS. Even upping Parry gives you more chance to parry (to land parry-reactionaries) and you could also split-spec at higher RR to have favourable damage-types against enemies (e.g. go Slash and Crush).

Going 50/50 as a merc/BM is probably the weakest spec overall.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:51 PM by Amp_Phetamine

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:47 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:00 PM
I can provide you with dps caps on my mercenary against lvl50 26% resist training dummies - as far as your "dare" the burden is on you bud.

But I'd bet plat that a 50/50 spec zerker doesn't get out damaged by a 50/42/39 merc/bm spec - that's why my merc is 50/50 lol

Totally situational. But a 50/42/39 BM/Merc has the exact same damage as a 50/50 one - assuming he's using CD/DW-styles.

Since generally positionals > anytimes (or Dual Shadows, in your case) a merc with Slam can go Slam --> Flank, Shadow's Rain, Flank, Shadow's Rain and do more damage than you can. Now add the fact slammed people can't dodge/parry/block and you will understand that generally having slam is better DPS.

50/50 is probably the lowest DPS. Even upping Parry gives you more chance to parry (to land parry-reactionaries) and you could also split-spec at higher RR to have favourable damage-types against enemies (e.g. go Slash and Crush).

Going 50/50 as a merc/BM is probably the weakest spec overall.

This is not true at all. I respec'd my Merc over the weekend to 50dw, 39slash 44parry to test the % parry increase. with +15 to all skills my weapon skill dropped by 105 value and my style damage also decreased.

50/50 spec increased weapon skill and style dps.

I'll repeat again and provide data logs but from what I experienced there was a damage decrease and weapon skill decrease going from 50/50/31 to 50/39/44 while using DW styles regardless of +composite.

Edit: Also take into consideration that I have the highest possible weapon skill at the 50/50 spec. This is a far greater asset to continued dps output then shield would be, overall, as slam is readily purged 50% of the time. I also have no issues positioning for styles on a target that is moving away, dual shadows is simply loaded as the anytime with parry secondary for stun attempt. I haven't lost a legit 1v1 in quite a while (since I fought Phixion).

Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:06 PM by jelzinga_EU

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:51 PM
This is not true at all. I respec'd my Merc over the weekend to 50dw, 39slash 44parry to test the % parry increase. with +15 to all skills my weapon skill dropped by 105 value and my style damage also decreased.

50/50 spec increased weapon skill and style dps.

Displayed weaponskill means nothing, as it only takes your primary weapon-line into consideration. Style-damage doesn't drop for DW-styles, only for Slash-styles (which you shouldn't use then, obviously).

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:51 PM
I'll repeat again and provide data logs but from what I experienced there was a damage decrease and weapon skill decrease going from 50/50/31 to 50/39/44 while using DW styles regardless of +composite.

Edit: Also take into consideration that I have the highest possible weapon skill at the 50/50 spec. This is a far greater asset to continued dps output then shield would be, overall, as slam is readily purged 50% of the time. I also have no issues positioning for styles on a target that is moving away, dual shadows is simply loaded as the anytime with parry secondary for stun attempt. I haven't lost a legit 1v1 in quite a while (since I fought Phixion).

The fact you haven't lost a legit 1vs1 in quite a while says nothing to me, for a majority of reasons:

a) Anecdotal
b) Legit is not defined
c) You only have a total of 90 solo-kills
d) Ironically you mention Phixion who does not have 50 weaponskill anyhow - so what does that say

I don't mind if you play as you like, but it is just spreading misinformation what you're doing now.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 6:01 PM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:59 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:13 AM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Apr 2019 3:46 PM
I don't bother with shield spec on my merc. I perform far better 50/50 spec and have beaten a few shield spec blademasters with having better dps output and higher weapon skill.

... Skalds are probably one of the most difficult classes on the server to beat solo (if you think they're also "trash" because they don't have a 1 part stun you honestly have no idea what you're talking about :/).

Berserkers are not trash solo. If you want to solo on a berserker, spec reflex attack 4/5, purge 2/3 and dump into mastery of pain asap.
If you consider 1 run kill one or two infis with vendo and then die and that specc soloing guess you are right zerk must be awesome. If you ever wanna fight something like a reaver or champ or maybe a duo with bard or minst you could run into difficulties if they are able to snare/cc you in vendo and just kite it out or use sos (they couldnt as easiely if zerk had a positional stun and their purge is down) and reslam you and your purge is down while a bm/merc could do that aswell. Also sounds pretty horrible if you ever wanna grp with shaman or skald with reflex attack you better dont come anywhere near a rooted/snared target. But if you consider the server state and no speed for soloing realistical you will have have to look at a skald/zerk duo and while they surely can kill stuff, with 9sec slam they perform way better.

I do consider getting a kill or two per run as a visible solo to be a successful run, especially on a non skald. Coming from a solo visi, that is a good run. I lose to champs and thanes on my mercenary as well? Does that mean Mercenaries also need buffs? I get snared/CC'd by skalds on my Mercenary as well, does that mean I also need buffs? Not sure why you're pointing out the inefficiencies of RA in regards to CC breaking, this discussion was about "zerkers are trash solo". Obviously a skald/zerker would perform better with slam, but neither class needs it. Shield spec on a skald or zerker would be hilariously over powered. 9s slam, no purge, into vendo dps? Lol.

Really think the legit issue is a 'player skill' issue and not a class issue. Best of luck out there on your berserker.

I dont play zerk for all the reasons listed already I would rather logg myself out of mid and start over in alb or hib and play LT there if I wanted to solo/smallman. Also I never asked for slam on skald but skald in duo with someone with slam like thane/warry is way more efficient than with zerk. Also I only consider a solo run with at least 5kills 1 dead a success and in a duo 10+ per death but guess thats a high standard for this server were its mostly zerg and fgs because of no speed of the hunt and I play skald and even this class has its limits with what it can kill and as a merc you have a chance at least to beat a champ/thane its totally possible not easy tho. I also can kill champs on skald if purge is up and champ isnt using st right when I purge and reslams. Its not about being able to kill a class its about to even the odds and zerk needs a positional stun to be even with other LTs thats all even if it is only a 4-5sec sitestun thats better than nothing and useful enough if u peel.

Tue 16 Apr 2019 6:17 PM by Foofmonger

This thread is exactly why game balance is more complex then compare my class to X other class.

Realms are balanced versus Realms as a whole, and it isn't like mid tankers are in a bad place right now. A zerk works fine on the train, although savages are arguably preferable.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 2:00 PM by Amp_Phetamine

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:06 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:51 PM
This is not true at all. I respec'd my Merc over the weekend to 50dw, 39slash 44parry to test the % parry increase. with +15 to all skills my weapon skill dropped by 105 value and my style damage also decreased.

50/50 spec increased weapon skill and style dps.

Displayed weaponskill means nothing, as it only takes your primary weapon-line into consideration. Style-damage doesn't drop for DW-styles, only for Slash-styles (which you shouldn't use then, obviously).

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:51 PM
I'll repeat again and provide data logs but from what I experienced there was a damage decrease and weapon skill decrease going from 50/50/31 to 50/39/44 while using DW styles regardless of +composite.

Edit: Also take into consideration that I have the highest possible weapon skill at the 50/50 spec. This is a far greater asset to continued dps output then shield would be, overall, as slam is readily purged 50% of the time. I also have no issues positioning for styles on a target that is moving away, dual shadows is simply loaded as the anytime with parry secondary for stun attempt. I haven't lost a legit 1v1 in quite a while (since I fought Phixion).

The fact you haven't lost a legit 1vs1 in quite a while says nothing to me, for a majority of reasons:

a) Anecdotal
b) Legit is not defined
c) You only have a total of 90 solo-kills
d) Ironically you mention Phixion who does not have 50 weaponskill anyhow - so what does that say

I don't mind if you play as you like, but it is just spreading misinformation what you're doing now.

You go out and solo on a visi and let me know how well you do

.

"you only have a total of 90 solo-kills" - 90 more on a visi then you bud.

A legit solo kill is a solo kill that earns credit? Not sure what weak context argument you're trying to make.

I mentioned Phixion as the last guy that beat me solo, not sure what weak context argument you're trying to make?

I disagree with your assessment on 50/50 being over-all weaker.

Edit: P.S. double check the herald - 25 solo kills within the last week and I only play weekends (maybe 15 hours a week tops?). I'll double down that 50/50 is a superior dps line then what you believe the alternative specs to be. If you'd like to prove me wrong then by all means, go ahead, I'm not frail enough to admit when I'm wrong.
Also, who're your toons? I have my main guy available for you to stat check, but who are you?

Wed 17 Apr 2019 2:02 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 6:01 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 12:59 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:13 AM
If you consider 1 run kill one or two infis with vendo and then die and that specc soloing guess you are right zerk must be awesome. If you ever wanna fight something like a reaver or champ or maybe a duo with bard or minst you could run into difficulties if they are able to snare/cc you in vendo and just kite it out or use sos (they couldnt as easiely if zerk had a positional stun and their purge is down) and reslam you and your purge is down while a bm/merc could do that aswell. Also sounds pretty horrible if you ever wanna grp with shaman or skald with reflex attack you better dont come anywhere near a rooted/snared target. But if you consider the server state and no speed for soloing realistical you will have have to look at a skald/zerk duo and while they surely can kill stuff, with 9sec slam they perform way better.

I do consider getting a kill or two per run as a visible solo to be a successful run, especially on a non skald. Coming from a solo visi, that is a good run. I lose to champs and thanes on my mercenary as well? Does that mean Mercenaries also need buffs? I get snared/CC'd by skalds on my Mercenary as well, does that mean I also need buffs? Not sure why you're pointing out the inefficiencies of RA in regards to CC breaking, this discussion was about "zerkers are trash solo". Obviously a skald/zerker would perform better with slam, but neither class needs it. Shield spec on a skald or zerker would be hilariously over powered. 9s slam, no purge, into vendo dps? Lol.

Really think the legit issue is a 'player skill' issue and not a class issue. Best of luck out there on your berserker.
I dont play zerk for all the reasons listed already I would rather logg myself out of mid and start over in alb or hib and play LT there if I wanted to solo/smallman. Also I never asked for slam on skald but skald in duo with someone with slam like thane/warry is way more efficient than with zerk. Also I only consider a solo run with at least 5kills 1 dead a success and in a duo 10+ per death but guess thats a high standard for this server were its mostly zerg and fgs because of no speed of the hunt and I play skald and even this class has its limits with what it can kill and as a merc you have a chance at least to beat a champ/thane its totally possible not easy tho. I also can kill champs on skald if purge is up and champ isnt using st right when I purge and reslams. Its not about being able to kill a class its about to even the odds and zerk needs a positional stun to be even with other LTs thats all even if it is only a 4-5sec sitestun thats better than nothing and useful enough if u peel.

I agree that zerks and shadow blades could greatly benefit from side stun in LA line. I disagree that berserkers are trash solo because they currently do not.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:12 PM by jelzinga_EU

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 2:00 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:06 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:51 PM
This is not true at all. I respec'd my Merc over the weekend to 50dw, 39slash 44parry to test the % parry increase. with +15 to all skills my weapon skill dropped by 105 value and my style damage also decreased.

50/50 spec increased weapon skill and style dps.

Displayed weaponskill means nothing, as it only takes your primary weapon-line into consideration. Style-damage doesn't drop for DW-styles, only for Slash-styles (which you shouldn't use then, obviously).

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 3:51 PM
I'll repeat again and provide data logs but from what I experienced there was a damage decrease and weapon skill decrease going from 50/50/31 to 50/39/44 while using DW styles regardless of +composite.

Edit: Also take into consideration that I have the highest possible weapon skill at the 50/50 spec. This is a far greater asset to continued dps output then shield would be, overall, as slam is readily purged 50% of the time. I also have no issues positioning for styles on a target that is moving away, dual shadows is simply loaded as the anytime with parry secondary for stun attempt. I haven't lost a legit 1v1 in quite a while (since I fought Phixion).

The fact you haven't lost a legit 1vs1 in quite a while says nothing to me, for a majority of reasons:

a) Anecdotal
b) Legit is not defined
c) You only have a total of 90 solo-kills
d) Ironically you mention Phixion who does not have 50 weaponskill anyhow - so what does that say

I don't mind if you play as you like, but it is just spreading misinformation what you're doing now.

You go out and solo on a visi and let me know how well you do .

"you only have a total of 90 solo-kills" - 90 more on a visi then you bud.

A legit solo kill is a solo kill that earns credit? Not sure what weak context argument you're trying to make.

I mentioned Phixion as the last guy that beat me solo, not sure what weak context argument you're trying to make?

I disagree with your assessment on 50/50 being over-all weaker.

Edit: P.S. double check the herald - 25 solo kills within the last week and I only play weekends (maybe 15 hours a week tops?). I'll double down that 50/50 is a superior dps line then what you believe the alternative specs to be. If you'd like to prove me wrong then by all means, go ahead, I'm not frail enough to admit when I'm wrong.
Also, who're your toons? I have my main guy available for you to stat check, but who are you?

Maybe I should not have made it personal and be so harsh, for that I apologize. As for 50/50 being inferior, obviously you can spec how you like, but if you feel 50/50 is better damage, better penetration and what not you're basically saying "Wyrd-spec / 52 composite spec is nonsense". Such an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof and you're not offering anything like that.

It is fine if you don't believe me, but GM's and coders made various references to how they coded Phoenix, e.g. look at https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=52502#p52502 or
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3021&p=18893&hilit=wyrd#p18893

All-in-all it basically means points above 52 composite Weapon (Slash/Thrust/Crush) are wasted UNLESS you exclusively use styles from Dualwield (which should be base 50 spec). So if you're RR5 - anything above 37 (+15) Weapon is better used somewhere else. That is why 50/50 is argueably the worst spec to go, since you're throwing away spec-points.

The remark about Phixion was a bit cheek-in-tongue: If he beat you, and he's definitly not using 50 Weapon-spec you're not helping your own point (even tho he's much higher RR, different class - Wyrd still applies).

As for the 90 solo-kills comment, I based that on the Herald, I do not know if it's entirely accurate but :
https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Ampradium
94 solo-kills - I understand live is hard on a visible, and solo'ing is not for everybody - and in fact I applaud any attempt to do so; but 94 solo-kills isn't a whole lot. Then take into account solo-kills on a caster, on untemplated people and sub-50's, I-win stuff (e.g. Dirty Tricks, IP - if applicable for you) and the amount of solo-kills is really not high enough to say something about 1vs1 performance against other melee in my eyes.

As for your question who I am on Phoenix ? If you want to look me up, I'm mostly (casually) playing my shadowblade called Sproutblade with a few friends from EU/Prydwen (where I was a Hibbie called Spinesprout, Pricklesprout, Puppethealer). Now you know - feel free to shoot at my shadowblade for piss-poor solo-stats, I rarely solo here, did a lot of that back in the days but just as you, game-time is sparse

Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:13 PM by Sevorin

Zerks are fine. I was in a fight last night. 4 shades 50 and temped, and a level 38 lowbie (he doesn't count, of course). A zerker fought all of us, and killed all of us. It was pretty impressive. He was RR7, we had an RR4, 2 RR 3's, and Im not sure what RR the 4th Shade was.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:23 PM by Scout123

Sevorin wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:13 PM
Zerks are fine. I was in a fight last night. 4 shades 50 and temped, and a level 38 lowbie (he doesn't count, of course). A zerker fought all of us, and killed all of us. It was pretty impressive. He was RR7, we had an RR4, 2 RR 3's, and Im not sure what RR the 4th Shade was.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=55292#p55292

Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:25 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Scout123 wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:23 PM
Sevorin wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:13 PM
Zerks are fine. I was in a fight last night. 4 shades 50 and temped, and a level 38 lowbie (he doesn't count, of course). A zerker fought all of us, and killed all of us. It was pretty impressive. He was RR7, we had an RR4, 2 RR 3's, and Im not sure what RR the 4th Shade was.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=55292#p55292

You made it into the Signature Series

Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:29 PM by Amp_Phetamine

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:12 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 2:00 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Apr 2019 4:06 PM
Displayed weaponskill means nothing, as it only takes your primary weapon-line into consideration. Style-damage doesn't drop for DW-styles, only for Slash-styles (which you shouldn't use then, obviously).

The fact you haven't lost a legit 1vs1 in quite a while says nothing to me, for a majority of reasons:

a) Anecdotal
b) Legit is not defined
c) You only have a total of 90 solo-kills
d) Ironically you mention Phixion who does not have 50 weaponskill anyhow - so what does that say

I don't mind if you play as you like, but it is just spreading misinformation what you're doing now.

You go out and solo on a visi and let me know how well you do .

"you only have a total of 90 solo-kills" - 90 more on a visi then you bud.

A legit solo kill is a solo kill that earns credit? Not sure what weak context argument you're trying to make.

I mentioned Phixion as the last guy that beat me solo, not sure what weak context argument you're trying to make?

I disagree with your assessment on 50/50 being over-all weaker.

Edit: P.S. double check the herald - 25 solo kills within the last week and I only play weekends (maybe 15 hours a week tops?). I'll double down that 50/50 is a superior dps line then what you believe the alternative specs to be. If you'd like to prove me wrong then by all means, go ahead, I'm not frail enough to admit when I'm wrong.
Also, who're your toons? I have my main guy available for you to stat check, but who are you?

Maybe I should not have made it personal and be so harsh, for that I apologize. As for 50/50 being inferior, obviously you can spec how you like, but if you feel 50/50 is better damage, better penetration and what not you're basically saying "Wyrd-spec / 52 composite spec is nonsense". Such an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof and you're not offering anything like that.

It is fine if you don't believe me, but GM's and coders made various references to how they coded Phoenix, e.g. look at https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?p=52502#p52502 or
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3021&p=18893&hilit=wyrd#p18893

All-in-all it basically means points above 52 composite Weapon (Slash/Thrust/Crush) are wasted UNLESS you exclusively use styles from Dualwield (which should be base 50 spec). So if you're RR5 - anything above 37 (+15) Weapon is better used somewhere else. That is why 50/50 is argueably the worst spec to go, since you're throwing away spec-points.

The remark about Phixion was a bit cheek-in-tongue: If he beat you, and he's definitly not using 50 Weapon-spec you're not helping your own point (even tho he's much higher RR, different class - Wyrd still applies).

As for the 90 solo-kills comment, I based that on the Herald, I do not know if it's entirely accurate but :
https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Ampradium
94 solo-kills - I understand live is hard on a visible, and solo'ing is not for everybody - and in fact I applaud any attempt to do so; but 94 solo-kills isn't a whole lot. Then take into account solo-kills on a caster, on untemplated people and sub-50's, I-win stuff (e.g. Dirty Tricks, IP - if applicable for you) and the amount of solo-kills is really not high enough to say something about 1vs1 performance against other melee in my eyes.

As for your question who I am on Phoenix ? If you want to look me up, I'm mostly (casually) playing my shadowblade called Sproutblade with a few friends from EU/Prydwen (where I was a Hibbie called Spinesprout, Pricklesprout, Puppethealer). Now you know - feel free to shoot at my shadowblade for piss-poor solo-stats, I rarely solo here, did a lot of that back in the days but just as you, game-time is sparse

Thanks I appreciate that, had a bad morning so I was #affected.

I haven't had a chance to really test much, will have to do so this weekend but I'll play around some more with the test dummies and see what field data I can get. As I was basing my statement off of what I perceived through practical application I could very well be wrong and have only noticed what I thought was an advantage. Will verify.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 5:46 PM by Luluko

Scout123 wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:23 PM
Sevorin wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:13 PM
Zerks are fine. I was in a fight last night. 4 shades 50 and temped, and a level 38 lowbie (he doesn't count, of course). A zerker fought all of us, and killed all of us. It was pretty impressive. He was RR7, we had an RR4, 2 RR 3's, and Im not sure what RR the 4th Shade was.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=55292#p55292

purge+ip + vendo and + dam with crush on leather vs low rrs

I also was able to kill grps of 6 in molvik on live with my troll zerk when people were still using aurulit armor and had no resists and I was only 2l9 and didnt had ip

this isnt saying much any bm could do this too with slam and ip/purge up but too bad slam doesnt have a 15min cd like those abilitys you need to kill that many squishy targets

also the taste in music and dyes is really questionable with this one, still impressive killing tho not many classes could do that but I doubt that specc works really well if you go out without any timers up vs most things

Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:07 PM by Sevorin

Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 5:46 PM
Scout123 wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:23 PM
Sevorin wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:13 PM
Zerks are fine. I was in a fight last night. 4 shades 50 and temped, and a level 38 lowbie (he doesn't count, of course). A zerker fought all of us, and killed all of us. It was pretty impressive. He was RR7, we had an RR4, 2 RR 3's, and Im not sure what RR the 4th Shade was.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=55292#p55292

purge+ip + vendo and + dam with crush on leather vs low rrs

I also was able to kill grps of 6 in molvik on live with my troll zerk when people were still using aurulit armor and had no resists and I was only 2l9 and didnt had ip

this isnt saying much any bm could do this too with slam and ip/purge up but too bad slam doesnt have a 15min cd like those abilitys you need to kill that many squishy targets

also the taste in music and dyes is really questionable with this one, still impressive killing tho not many classes could do that but I doubt that specc works really well if you go out without any timers up vs most things

He has more vids up than that one. Watch the rest. Im pretty sure Zerks are fine as is.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:09 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 5:46 PM
Scout123 wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:23 PM
Sevorin wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:13 PM
Zerks are fine. I was in a fight last night. 4 shades 50 and temped, and a level 38 lowbie (he doesn't count, of course). A zerker fought all of us, and killed all of us. It was pretty impressive. He was RR7, we had an RR4, 2 RR 3's, and Im not sure what RR the 4th Shade was.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=55292#p55292

purge+ip + vendo and + dam with crush on leather vs low rrs

I also was able to kill grps of 6 in molvik on live with my troll zerk when people were still using aurulit armor and had no resists and I was only 2l9 and didnt had ip

this isnt saying much any bm could do this too with slam and ip/purge up but too bad slam doesnt have a 15min cd like those abilitys you need to kill that many squishy targets

also the taste in music and dyes is really questionable with this one, still impressive killing tho not many classes could do that but I doubt that specc works really well if you go out without any timers up vs most things

Lmfao get over yourself man. These are level 50 fully templated shades (minus the last one). Even one of the shades posts on the forum (Sevorin) and attested to this. A berserker absolutely man-handled a 4 man stealth group of level 50 fully templated and buffed shades, yet you're making excuses because it goes against your prerogative.

Don't use examples comparing what you did in a BG on Live back in 2010.

A blademaster could not do this with slam/IP. This requires absolutely massive dps output which only a berserker could do with Vendo up.

Berserkers don't suck.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:31 PM by Luluko

Sevorin wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:07 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 5:46 PM
Scout123 wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:23 PM
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=55292#p55292

purge+ip + vendo and + dam with crush on leather vs low rrs

I also was able to kill grps of 6 in molvik on live with my troll zerk when people were still using aurulit armor and had no resists and I was only 2l9 and didnt had ip

this isnt saying much any bm could do this too with slam and ip/purge up but too bad slam doesnt have a 15min cd like those abilitys you need to kill that many squishy targets

also the taste in music and dyes is really questionable with this one, still impressive killing tho not many classes could do that but I doubt that specc works really well if you go out without any timers up vs most things

He has more vids up than that one. Watch the rest. Im pretty sure Zerks are fine as is.

I am too lazy to go through all the 30sec clips where he vendos a noob down. But if you know one where vendo/ip isnt up and he fights something like rr6+ reaver/champ or petstrel you could give me a link.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:36 PM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:09 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 5:46 PM
Scout123 wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 4:23 PM
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=55292#p55292

purge+ip + vendo and + dam with crush on leather vs low rrs

I also was able to kill grps of 6 in molvik on live with my troll zerk when people were still using aurulit armor and had no resists and I was only 2l9 and didnt had ip

this isnt saying much any bm could do this too with slam and ip/purge up but too bad slam doesnt have a 15min cd like those abilitys you need to kill that many squishy targets

also the taste in music and dyes is really questionable with this one, still impressive killing tho not many classes could do that but I doubt that specc works really well if you go out without any timers up vs most things

Lmfao get over yourself man. These are level 50 fully templated shades (minus the last one). Even one of the shades posts on the forum (Sevorin) and attested to this. A berserker absolutely man-handled a 4 man stealth group of level 50 fully templated and buffed shades, yet you're making excuses because it goes against your prerogative.

Don't use examples comparing what you did in a BG on Live back in 2010.

A blademaster could not do this with slam/IP. This requires absolutely massive dps output which only a berserker could do with Vendo up.

Berserkers don't suck.

maybe not 4 but 3 certainly if they dont purge or vanish

despite that, one encounter with a squishy class like this says nothing really especially with everything up and just dumping timers and spamming anytime

if you go up against minstrel/reaver duos or anything similar as skald/zerk gl killing something without a stun when you are either in slam if purge is down or they just sos out of melee range when you vendo and /laugh at you

Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:59 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:36 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:09 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 5:46 PM
purge+ip + vendo and + dam with crush on leather vs low rrs

I also was able to kill grps of 6 in molvik on live with my troll zerk when people were still using aurulit armor and had no resists and I was only 2l9 and didnt had ip

this isnt saying much any bm could do this too with slam and ip/purge up but too bad slam doesnt have a 15min cd like those abilitys you need to kill that many squishy targets

also the taste in music and dyes is really questionable with this one, still impressive killing tho not many classes could do that but I doubt that specc works really well if you go out without any timers up vs most things

Lmfao get over yourself man. These are level 50 fully templated shades (minus the last one). Even one of the shades posts on the forum (Sevorin) and attested to this. A berserker absolutely man-handled a 4 man stealth group of level 50 fully templated and buffed shades, yet you're making excuses because it goes against your prerogative.

Don't use examples comparing what you did in a BG on Live back in 2010.

A blademaster could not do this with slam/IP. This requires absolutely massive dps output which only a berserker could do with Vendo up.

Berserkers don't suck.
maybe not 4 but 3 certainly if they dont purge or vanish

despite that, one encounter with a squishy class like this says nothing really especially with everything up and just dumping timers and spamming anytime

if you go up against minstrel/reaver duos or anything similar as skald/zerk gl killing something without a stun when you are either in slam if purge is down or they just sos out of melee range when you vendo and /laugh at you

Lmao that's hilarious. So Nate's berserker proves that zerkers can perform solo, that they aren't trash, and you're unconvinced because you believe a blademaster could kill one less as long as the assassins don't have purge or vanish up. You literally just admitted that the damage output of a berserker is superior to either merc or blademaster.

Not sure what the skald/zerker vs. mini/reaver duo comparison has to do with a berserker being capable of solo'ing. The better duo will win that encounter, there are a plethora of ways a skald/zerker duo could destroy a minstril/reaver duo and vice-versa.

Wed 17 Apr 2019 8:27 PM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:59 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:36 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:09 PM
Lmfao get over yourself man. These are level 50 fully templated shades (minus the last one). Even one of the shades posts on the forum (Sevorin) and attested to this. A berserker absolutely man-handled a 4 man stealth group of level 50 fully templated and buffed shades, yet you're making excuses because it goes against your prerogative.

Don't use examples comparing what you did in a BG on Live back in 2010.

A blademaster could not do this with slam/IP. This requires absolutely massive dps output which only a berserker could do with Vendo up.

Berserkers don't suck.
maybe not 4 but 3 certainly if they dont purge or vanish

despite that, one encounter with a squishy class like this says nothing really especially with everything up and just dumping timers and spamming anytime

if you go up against minstrel/reaver duos or anything similar as skald/zerk gl killing something without a stun when you are either in slam if purge is down or they just sos out of melee range when you vendo and /laugh at you

Lmao that's hilarious. So Nate's berserker proves that zerkers can perform solo, that they aren't trash, and you're unconvinced because you believe a blademaster could kill one less as long as the assassins don't have purge or vanish up. You literally just admitted that the damage output of a berserker is superior to either merc or blademaster.

Not sure what the skald/zerker vs. mini/reaver duo comparison has to do with a berserker being capable of solo'ing. The better duo will win that encounter, there are a plethora of ways a skald/zerker duo could destroy a minstril/reaver duo and vice-versa.

It was never only about how good zerk is solo also in unity with a skald since no speed is just no feasible on this server except if you run arround as lvl 34 maybe then grps will ignore you mostly.

Also you are removing the context again yeah zerk can do insane dps I never said something else but vs ns with crush specc. Anything decent which wears chain or higher is less easy to kill if your timers are down, and merc/bm have slam to easiely kill almost anything in stun if they have the right damage type specced but they dont rely on the timers that heaviely and can peel pretty well. Where the snare from zerk is maybe useless if the target was already snared by the skald for example and sometimes you have to use the snare to rupt cant always shoot charges.

Despite that I am done here I have said it over and over again that zerk overall is trash compared to bm/merc and nothing will change my mind until zerk gets a positional stun or access to shields. Shields are just to useful with engage and stun even if most people dont really utilize it.

Thu 18 Apr 2019 5:50 AM by kmark101

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:09 PM
Lmfao get over yourself man. These are level 50 fully templated shades (minus the last one). Even one of the shades posts on the forum (Sevorin) and attested to this. A berserker absolutely man-handled a 4 man stealth group of level 50 fully templated and buffed shades, yet you're making excuses because it goes against your prerogative.

Don't use examples comparing what you did in a BG on Live back in 2010.

A blademaster could not do this with slam/IP. This requires absolutely massive dps output which only a berserker could do with Vendo up.

Berserkers don't suck.

Goddamn noobs, don't you see he is owning you with Reflex Attack 5? Which is, by the way, also available for Blademasters, Mercenarys and Friars... so how exactly berserker is fine while this particular skill is independent from his class specific set?

Besides having access to slam, BM/Merc also have Flurry and Charge (yes, gimped version, but still), which zerker doesn't have for some unknown reason. Thats 1 best skill in game (slam) + 1 very good skill (flurry), that zerker doesn't have but other realm light tanks do.

Zerker had a thing going on with able to wield 2h weapon for Tundra one-shot, but that is not available here.

This means that zerker is lightyears behind it's lighttank buddies in every possible comparison and balance sheet.

Thu 18 Apr 2019 8:05 AM by Kampfar

Tundra needs Comeback

Thu 18 Apr 2019 11:07 AM by Maggot

Berserker has more DPS output than either BM or Merc. Neither of these classes will come ANYWHERE close to a troll zerker hitting at swing speed cap (with celerity up extremely easy) with 2 slow weapons and high styling damage because of low quickness in terms of DPS. You can't compare these classes in a 1v1 comparison. You have to look at it from a more holistic perspective. Both BM and Merc have slightly more utility (especially because of slam), but zerker has the highest potential for pure raw DPS. Now a few (most aren't) zerkers are crying that they want both the utility of a BM/Merc AND the highest DPS output? Like really? Please put off your blindfolders and try to reflect on your extremely biased opinion or look at how you can make use of the abilities better in your realm.

Thu 18 Apr 2019 12:26 PM by Luluko

Maggot wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Apr 2019 11:07 AM
Berserker has more DPS output than either BM or Merc. Neither of these classes will come ANYWHERE close to a troll zerker hitting at swing speed cap (with celerity up extremely easy) with 2 slow weapons and high styling damage because of low quickness in terms of DPS. You can't compare these classes in a 1v1 comparison. You have to look at it from a more holistic perspective. Both BM and Merc have slightly more utility (especially because of slam), but zerker has the highest potential for pure raw DPS. Now a few (most aren't) zerkers are crying that they want both the utility of a BM/Merc AND the highest DPS output? Like really? Please put off your blindfolders and try to reflect on your extremely biased opinion or look at how you can make use of the abilities better in your realm.

nobody is crying that they want the same utility like bm/merc but a 4-5sec sitestun would go a long way and would still leave zerks open to archers/bolts without a shield and engage, also you didnt even mention that zerks only have the option of 2 kinds of damage merc/bm got 3

Thu 18 Apr 2019 12:56 PM by Amp_Phetamine

kmark101 wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Apr 2019 5:50 AM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Apr 2019 6:09 PM
Lmfao get over yourself man. These are level 50 fully templated shades (minus the last one). Even one of the shades posts on the forum (Sevorin) and attested to this. A berserker absolutely man-handled a 4 man stealth group of level 50 fully templated and buffed shades, yet you're making excuses because it goes against your prerogative.

Don't use examples comparing what you did in a BG on Live back in 2010.

A blademaster could not do this with slam/IP. This requires absolutely massive dps output which only a berserker could do with Vendo up.

Berserkers don't suck.

Goddamn noobs, don't you see he is owning you with Reflex Attack 5? Which is, by the way, also available for Blademasters, Mercenarys and Friars... so how exactly berserker is fine while this particular skill is independent from his class specific set?

Besides having access to slam, BM/Merc also have Flurry and Charge (yes, gimped version, but still), which zerker doesn't have for some unknown reason. Thats 1 best skill in game (slam) + 1 very good skill (flurry), that zerker doesn't have but other realm light tanks do.

Zerker had a thing going on with able to wield 2h weapon for Tundra one-shot, but that is not available here.

This means that zerker is lightyears behind it's lighttank buddies in every possible comparison and balance sheet.

Sooooo berserkers were "fine" when they were 1 hitting players? That's "fine" by definition to you? Can berserkers compete? Are they capable of getting solo kills? Guess what, they are! They can! They aren't "the best" but they sure as hell can burn a player or two down.

They.
Are.
Competent.

I'd recommend players investing more time into their berserkers and less time QQ'ing about them

Fri 19 Apr 2019 1:09 AM by kmark101

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Apr 2019 12:56 PM
Sooooo berserkers were "fine" when they were 1 hitting players? That's "fine" by definition to you? Can berserkers compete? Are they capable of getting solo kills? Guess what, they are! They can! They aren't "the best" but they sure as hell can burn a player or two down.

They.
Are.
Competent.

I'd recommend players investing more time into their berserkers and less time QQ'ing about them

So this is all your takeaway from my post? That you are asking me this stupid question that I think if zerkers were fine when they were 1-shotting players? Just ignore the fact that casters 1-shotting me every day (ok not 1 shot, but 2 second cast bam bam bam dead) or blademasters slam me then I'm dead before getting out of the 9 second stun, and zerkers had something unique for them to 1 shot ppl every 30 minutes (you have no clue about this ability, do you). Not every minute like an enchanter or a one-rounding shroom massing animist, every 30 minutes. Imagine if animists would be able to stack shrooms only every 30 minutes.

Zerkers are getting solo kills because of a realm ability that is available for alb and hib classes as well. So ask yourself, if zerkers are getting solo kills because of this one single ability, then how about other light tanks, who also has this exact same ability (so they are getting solo kills too), but ON THE TOP OF IT they also have slam AND flurry? Do you think this is balance? This isn't balanced on the light tank front and is definitely not balanced on the grand scheme of things either (especially that 2 alb classes have this ability, while only 1 hib and 1 mid class, fyi).

Add the abysmal miss rate and 50% nerfed block penetration (which was a HUGE mistake by the dev team, fyi) and you get a gimp class that's a shadow of his former self and rock bottom at every comparison to other light tanks (damage is exactly the same, just google it how LA/DW/CD works and numbers are identical in the end, zerkers have the slight slight advantage of an offhand damage add plus here, it's minimal, but it's there).

Fri 19 Apr 2019 4:47 PM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Apr 2019 12:56 PM
I'd recommend players investing more time into their berserkers and less time QQ'ing about them

translates to: either donate a few hundred times or zerg your rr together if you wanna solo and then you are still lacking in certain fields compared to bm/merc

Sat 20 Apr 2019 9:54 AM by stridberg

Wild idea: Give berserkers, and only berserkers, back the 50% dualwield penetration.
Preserves class identity and should shut the topic around light tank balance up for a while.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 1:12 PM by Amp_Phetamine

kmark101 wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Apr 2019 1:09 AM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Apr 2019 12:56 PM
Sooooo berserkers were "fine" when they were 1 hitting players? That's "fine" by definition to you? Can berserkers compete? Are they capable of getting solo kills? Guess what, they are! They can! They aren't "the best" but they sure as hell can burn a player or two down.

They.
Are.
Competent.

I'd recommend players investing more time into their berserkers and less time QQ'ing about them

So this is all your takeaway from my post? That you are asking me this stupid question that I think if zerkers were fine when they were 1-shotting players? Just ignore the fact that casters 1-shotting me every day (ok not 1 shot, but 2 second cast bam bam bam dead) or blademasters slam me then I'm dead before getting out of the 9 second stun, and zerkers had something unique for them to 1 shot ppl every 30 minutes (you have no clue about this ability, do you). Not every minute like an enchanter or a one-rounding shroom massing animist, every 30 minutes. Imagine if animists would be able to stack shrooms only every 30 minutes.

Zerkers are getting solo kills because of a realm ability that is available for alb and hib classes as well. So ask yourself, if zerkers are getting solo kills because of this one single ability, then how about other light tanks, who also has this exact same ability (so they are getting solo kills too), but ON THE TOP OF IT they also have slam AND flurry? Do you think this is balance? This isn't balanced on the light tank front and is definitely not balanced on the grand scheme of things either (especially that 2 alb classes have this ability, while only 1 hib and 1 mid class, fyi).

Add the abysmal miss rate and 50% nerfed block penetration (which was a HUGE mistake by the dev team, fyi) and you get a gimp class that's a shadow of his former self and rock bottom at every comparison to other light tanks (damage is exactly the same, just google it how LA/DW/CD works and numbers are identical in the end, zerkers have the slight slight advantage of an offhand damage add plus here, it's minimal, but it's there).

Yeah I asked you that question because you made the comment?
So, according to your logic, Berserkers can't compete because they don't have access to slam. Then why am I able to win 95% of my encounters on my Mercenary as a 50/50/31 spec user? (Please don't say because of flurry lmfao). I've beaten probably 5-6 different blademasters solo who were shield spec. Slam is not as god like as you make it out to be. It's certainly better for group slots for peeling purposes but as someone who's played against slam it's not that great. Does that mean that Mercenaries are over powered even without slam? (lol). Are you even templated? Do you use charges? You're spitting out all this paper daoc theories that aren't even factual and crying foul that your class sucks.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 1:13 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Apr 2019 4:47 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Apr 2019 12:56 PM
I'd recommend players investing more time into their berserkers and less time QQ'ing about them

translates to: either donate a few hundred times or zerg your rr together if you wanna solo and then you are still lacking in certain fields compared to bm/merc

I dont know man, or something crazy like learn how to play?

Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:56 PM by Dariussdars

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 1:12 PM
kmark101 wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Apr 2019 1:09 AM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Apr 2019 12:56 PM
Sooooo berserkers were "fine" when they were 1 hitting players? That's "fine" by definition to you? Can berserkers compete? Are they capable of getting solo kills? Guess what, they are! They can! They aren't "the best" but they sure as hell can burn a player or two down.

They.
Are.
Competent.

I'd recommend players investing more time into their berserkers and less time QQ'ing about them

So this is all your takeaway from my post? That you are asking me this stupid question that I think if zerkers were fine when they were 1-shotting players? Just ignore the fact that casters 1-shotting me every day (ok not 1 shot, but 2 second cast bam bam bam dead) or blademasters slam me then I'm dead before getting out of the 9 second stun, and zerkers had something unique for them to 1 shot ppl every 30 minutes (you have no clue about this ability, do you). Not every minute like an enchanter or a one-rounding shroom massing animist, every 30 minutes. Imagine if animists would be able to stack shrooms only every 30 minutes.

Zerkers are getting solo kills because of a realm ability that is available for alb and hib classes as well. So ask yourself, if zerkers are getting solo kills because of this one single ability, then how about other light tanks, who also has this exact same ability (so they are getting solo kills too), but ON THE TOP OF IT they also have slam AND flurry? Do you think this is balance? This isn't balanced on the light tank front and is definitely not balanced on the grand scheme of things either (especially that 2 alb classes have this ability, while only 1 hib and 1 mid class, fyi).

Add the abysmal miss rate and 50% nerfed block penetration (which was a HUGE mistake by the dev team, fyi) and you get a gimp class that's a shadow of his former self and rock bottom at every comparison to other light tanks (damage is exactly the same, just google it how LA/DW/CD works and numbers are identical in the end, zerkers have the slight slight advantage of an offhand damage add plus here, it's minimal, but it's there).

Yeah I asked you that question because you made the comment?
So, according to your logic, Berserkers can't compete because they don't have access to slam. Then why am I able to win 95% of my encounters on my Mercenary as a 50/50/31 spec user? (Please don't say because of flurry lmfao). I've beaten probably 5-6 different blademasters solo who were shield spec. Slam is not as god like as you make it out to be. It's certainly better for group slots for peeling purposes but as someone who's played against slam it's not that great. Does that mean that Mercenaries are over powered even without slam? (lol). Are you even templated? Do you use charges? You're spitting out all this paper daoc theories that aren't even factual and crying foul that your class sucks.

Mercs hit harder than Zerks do. Grats on playing a class that does more damage than a zerk does?

Mon 22 Apr 2019 3:02 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:56 PM
Mercs hit harder than Zerks do. Grats on playing a class that does more damage than a zerk does?

Oh boy...

Mon 22 Apr 2019 3:14 PM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 1:13 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Apr 2019 4:47 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Apr 2019 12:56 PM
I'd recommend players investing more time into their berserkers and less time QQ'ing about them

translates to: either donate a few hundred times or zerg your rr together if you wanna solo and then you are still lacking in certain fields compared to bm/merc

I dont know man, or something crazy like learn how to play?

translates to: find the right people so you can run in a fg, soloing/duoing on this server as a visible is a pain in the ass and only something for masochists

I know how to play and I also know when its not worth it to login or play certain classes, you dont keep running back against a brickwall you come back when the odds are in your favour or you do something else or play something else if you dont have fun

And you can tell by the population numbers which are at least halfed since the first few weeks of the server that not all have fun.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 3:26 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 3:14 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 1:13 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Apr 2019 4:47 PM
translates to: either donate a few hundred times or zerg your rr together if you wanna solo and then you are still lacking in certain fields compared to bm/merc

I dont know man, or something crazy like learn how to play?

translates to: find the right people so you can run in a fg, soloing/duoing on this server as a visible is a pain in the ass and only something for masochists

I know how to play and I also know when its not worth it to login or play certain classes, you dont keep running back against a brickwall you come back when the odds are in your favour or you do something else or play something else if you dont have fun

And you can tell by the population numbers which are at least halfed since the first few weeks of the server that not all have fun.

It is a pain in the ass but it's highly feasible. Crap look at my stats over the weekend. Participated in the "event" all three days because I wanted to see how many solo kills I could get in the small-man event (roughly 50-60 or so with 120 deaths - I'd like my charges/potions replenished @Uthred <3).

Berserkers are not going to be given shield spec. It was never and has never been implemented for the class. The only thing berserkers should get is the side stun in LA. Just spec high mastery of pain, reflex attack 5, 50/50 weapon and blow up the next stealther or two that engage you.

At least try it. 95% guarantee you aren't going to be running into many mercs/blademasters running shield solo. (I generally see 1-2 Mercs running solo shield spec, I may be the only solo merc dw/weapon spec)

Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:55 PM by Dariussdars

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 3:02 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:56 PM
Mercs hit harder than Zerks do. Grats on playing a class that does more damage than a zerk does?

Oh boy...

Ah, so you don't think that mercs hit harder than zerks do? Zerk might hit harder once every 10 minutes or so. The other 9 minutes, mercs hit a lot harder. Maybe if you actually tried playing one of the other classes you keep claiming are fine, you might learn otherwise. You don't play a a zerk, you don't play a hunter, etc, etc, etc. Yet here you are on every thread claiming X class is fine, despite having zero first hand knowledge to make that claim.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:58 PM by Ashenspire

Zerks do 5% more base damage than Mercs and BMs and have higher growth rates on their styles overall.

Zerks do not get out damaged by mercs or BMs. If you want the class to get some love, you should understand how the class functions. You lose all credibility for asking for buffs when you straight up lie about their performance.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:09 PM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 3:26 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 3:14 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 1:13 PM
I dont know man, or something crazy like learn how to play?

translates to: find the right people so you can run in a fg, soloing/duoing on this server as a visible is a pain in the ass and only something for masochists

I know how to play and I also know when its not worth it to login or play certain classes, you dont keep running back against a brickwall you come back when the odds are in your favour or you do something else or play something else if you dont have fun

And you can tell by the population numbers which are at least halfed since the first few weeks of the server that not all have fun.

It is a pain in the ass but it's highly feasible. Crap look at my stats over the weekend. Participated in the "event" all three days because I wanted to see how many solo kills I could get in the small-man event (roughly 50-60 or so with 120 deaths - I'd like my charges/potions replenished @Uthred <3).

Berserkers are not going to be given shield spec. It was never and has never been implemented for the class. The only thing berserkers should get is the side stun in LA. Just spec high mastery of pain, reflex attack 5, 50/50 weapon and blow up the next stealther or two that engage you.

At least try it. 95% guarantee you aren't going to be running into many mercs/blademasters running shield solo. (I generally see 1-2 Mercs running solo shield spec, I may be the only solo merc dw/weapon spec)

I dont have a zerk and neither do I intend to make one, and I also dont have a lvl 50 sb because both those classes are missing the la sitestun and if I go out solo I certainly wont play a gimped version if I could get the full package on another realm. I dont mind only getting like 8k rps an hour if I dont die then it can be slow but I am not going out solo and donate to crap players which can do nothing else than run down lesser numbers. I rather start a new skyrim playthrough for the 100th time and try out some new mods than donating the whole time. I am only playing my skald solo and even that class gets run over a lot thanks to bard amnesia. Then they burn instant mezz purge just to kill one if you think you would have a chance as a zerk without nf charge against half competent players no you dont but you prlly wont even get far enough in emain to even meet those kind of duos since all there is, is zerg between mpk and amg. If you go alb you can maybe fight a nais fight 1vs1 hero/champ at mmg which hangs out there a lot, but gl with a zerk without sitestun and no purge/ip up against something like that. And if you specc towards only killing sneaks good luck getting any rps at some point they will realize that you have reflex attack and they will only add on you or just vanish then. No point in wasting time leveling a toon for that kind of "fun".

Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:49 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:55 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 3:02 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 2:56 PM
Mercs hit harder than Zerks do. Grats on playing a class that does more damage than a zerk does?

Oh boy...

Ah, so you don't think that mercs hit harder than zerks do? Zerk might hit harder once every 10 minutes or so. The other 9 minutes, mercs hit a lot harder. Maybe if you actually tried playing one of the other classes you keep claiming are fine, you might learn otherwise. You don't play a a zerk, you don't play a hunter, etc, etc, etc. Yet here you are on every thread claiming X class is fine, despite having zero first hand knowledge to make that claim.

Please see:

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
Zerks do 5% more base damage than Mercs and BMs and have higher growth rates on their styles overall.

Zerks do not get out damaged by mercs or BMs. If you want the class to get some love, you should understand how the class functions. You lose all credibility for asking for buffs when you straight up lie about their performance.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:58 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:09 PM
I dont have a zerk and neither do I intend to make one, and I also dont have a lvl 50 sb because both those classes are missing the la sitestun and if I go out solo I certainly wont play a gimped version if I could get the full package on another realm. I dont mind only getting like 8k rps an hour if I dont die then it can be slow but I am not going out solo and donate to crap players which can do nothing else than run down lesser numbers. I rather start a new skyrim playthrough for the 100th time and try out some new mods than donating the whole time. I am only playing my skald solo and even that class gets run over a lot thanks to bard amnesia. Then they burn instant mezz purge just to kill one if you think you would have a chance as a zerk without nf charge against half competent players no you dont but you prlly wont even get far enough in emain to even meet those kind of duos since all there is, is zerg between mpk and amg. If you go alb you can maybe fight a nais fight 1vs1 hero/champ at mmg which hangs out there a lot, but gl with a zerk without sitestun and no purge/ip up against something like that. And if you specc towards only killing sneaks good luck getting any rps at some point they will realize that you have reflex attack and they will only add on you or just vanish then. No point in wasting time leveling a toon for that kind of "fun".

Your doing way too much theory crafting. You can very easily compete without shield slam by speccing reflex attack 5 and pumping points into mastery of pain. Every other issue you listed pretty much every visible solo player experiences as well, these are nothing new. I don't have slam nor do I have a side stun on my Merc but guess what I do have, a parry reactionary follow up stun that lands pretty much every fight. Use your tools man, with hammer/left axe you get a 7s parry stun option in hammer and a 7s evade stun option in left axe (reminder you also get evade 3).

Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:27 PM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:58 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 5:09 PM
I dont have a zerk and neither do I intend to make one, and I also dont have a lvl 50 sb because both those classes are missing the la sitestun and if I go out solo I certainly wont play a gimped version if I could get the full package on another realm. I dont mind only getting like 8k rps an hour if I dont die then it can be slow but I am not going out solo and donate to crap players which can do nothing else than run down lesser numbers. I rather start a new skyrim playthrough for the 100th time and try out some new mods than donating the whole time. I am only playing my skald solo and even that class gets run over a lot thanks to bard amnesia. Then they burn instant mezz purge just to kill one if you think you would have a chance as a zerk without nf charge against half competent players no you dont but you prlly wont even get far enough in emain to even meet those kind of duos since all there is, is zerg between mpk and amg. If you go alb you can maybe fight a nais fight 1vs1 hero/champ at mmg which hangs out there a lot, but gl with a zerk without sitestun and no purge/ip up against something like that. And if you specc towards only killing sneaks good luck getting any rps at some point they will realize that you have reflex attack and they will only add on you or just vanish then. No point in wasting time leveling a toon for that kind of "fun".

Your doing way too much theory crafting. You can very easily compete without shield slam by speccing reflex attack 5 and pumping points into mastery of pain. Every other issue you listed pretty much every visible solo player experiences as well, these are nothing new. I don't have slam nor do I have a side stun on my Merc but guess what I do have, a parry reactionary follow up stun that lands pretty much every fight. Use your tools man, with hammer/left axe you get a 7s parry stun option in hammer and a 7s evade stun option in left axe (reminder you also get evade 3).

all useless if you wanna kill something fast like a supporter or a caster and move on to the next target

Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:32 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:27 PM
all useless if you wanna kill something fast like a supporter or a caster and move on to the next target

Yeah... in that case use your positional styles, kill and move to the next target? I don't understand are you grouping or are you solo because depending on my response your argument is changing...

Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:37 PM by Dariussdars

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
Zerks do 5% more base damage than Mercs and BMs and have higher growth rates on their styles overall.

Zerks do not get out damaged by mercs or BMs. If you want the class to get some love, you should understand how the class functions. You lose all credibility for asking for buffs when you straight up lie about their performance.

Of course they do, simply because you stated such. People who actually play the class know otherwise. Thanks for the input though.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:43 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:37 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
Zerks do 5% more base damage than Mercs and BMs and have higher growth rates on their styles overall.

Zerks do not get out damaged by mercs or BMs. If you want the class to get some love, you should understand how the class functions. You lose all credibility for asking for buffs when you straight up lie about their performance.

Of course they do, simply because you stated such. People who actually play the class know otherwise. Thanks for the input though.

Do... Do you actually play the class?

Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:59 PM by Ashenspire

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:37 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
Zerks do 5% more base damage than Mercs and BMs and have higher growth rates on their styles overall.

Zerks do not get out damaged by mercs or BMs. If you want the class to get some love, you should understand how the class functions. You lose all credibility for asking for buffs when you straight up lie about their performance.

Of course they do, simply because you stated such. People who actually play the class know otherwise. Thanks for the input though.

There has never been any math to back up your claim. There's plenty to back up mine. I've played on my Berserkers throughout the years as well as my mercenaries to know what they're capable of.

No data will ever back up the claim that "mercs and BMs do more damage than zerks." It's just not true. Like I said, you're never going to see any beneficial changes to your class if you have to lie about it.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:05 PM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:32 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:27 PM
all useless if you wanna kill something fast like a supporter or a caster and move on to the next target

Yeah... in that case use your positional styles, kill and move to the next target? I don't understand are you grouping or are you solo because depending on my response your argument is changing...

doesnt matter if you are solo or in a smallman here if you fight bigger numbers you will want to be able to stun a supporter or caster to not get qc rooted/mezzed or dont leave any room for a cleric/druid to use his instant heals so you stun when he is arround 50% then burst him down if his purge is down, same applies also to a bard or minst which could sos if you just have access to snare styles. Why would anyone bother play a zerk in such scenarios when you can also play a merc/bm in other realms, sure you have vendo but you dont always leave mpk with every ability up and this is the problem merc/bm even with jus 35 shield specc still would have access to back/sitestun and could do something at least to buy other grp mates the 5seconds they need to throw a heal or mezz while a zerk can just stick spam snare styles and hope either vendo is up or you get stun assist or else your target might just get sosed if hp gets low or just mocs and heals himself or uses moc bt. Even tho I dont see that often its an option.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:13 PM by Dariussdars

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:59 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:37 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
Zerks do 5% more base damage than Mercs and BMs and have higher growth rates on their styles overall.

Zerks do not get out damaged by mercs or BMs. If you want the class to get some love, you should understand how the class functions. You lose all credibility for asking for buffs when you straight up lie about their performance.

Of course they do, simply because you stated such. People who actually play the class know otherwise. Thanks for the input though.

There has never been any math to back up your claim. There's plenty to back up mine. I've played on my Berserkers throughout the years as well as my mercenaries to know what they're capable of.

No data will ever back up the claim that "mercs and BMs do more damage than zerks." It's just not true. Like I said, you're never going to see any beneficial changes to your class if you have to lie about it.

Where is the data showing zerks outdamage bms and mercs then? It goes both ways.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:14 PM by Dariussdars

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:43 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:37 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
Zerks do 5% more base damage than Mercs and BMs and have higher growth rates on their styles overall.

Zerks do not get out damaged by mercs or BMs. If you want the class to get some love, you should understand how the class functions. You lose all credibility for asking for buffs when you straight up lie about their performance.

Of course they do, simply because you stated such. People who actually play the class know otherwise. Thanks for the input though.

Do... Do you actually play the class?

Yeah, I play a berserker. Do you?

Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:15 PM by Dariussdars

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:59 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:37 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 4:58 PM
Zerks do 5% more base damage than Mercs and BMs and have higher growth rates on their styles overall.

Zerks do not get out damaged by mercs or BMs. If you want the class to get some love, you should understand how the class functions. You lose all credibility for asking for buffs when you straight up lie about their performance.

Of course they do, simply because you stated such. People who actually play the class know otherwise. Thanks for the input though.

There has never been any math to back up your claim. There's plenty to back up mine. I've played on my Berserkers throughout the years as well as my mercenaries to know what they're capable of.

No data will ever back up the claim that "mercs and BMs do more damage than zerks." It's just not true. Like I said, you're never going to see any beneficial changes to your class if you have to lie about it.

Do you play a zerk here on Phoenix? If the answer is no, just stop posting.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:16 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:05 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:32 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:27 PM
all useless if you wanna kill something fast like a supporter or a caster and move on to the next target

Yeah... in that case use your positional styles, kill and move to the next target? I don't understand are you grouping or are you solo because depending on my response your argument is changing...

doesnt matter if you are solo or in a smallman here if you fight bigger numbers you will want to be able to stun a supporter or caster to not get qc rooted/mezzed or dont leave any room for a cleric/druid to use his instant heals so you stun when he is arround 50% then burst him down if his purge is down, same applies also to a bard or minst which could sos if you just have access to snare styles. Why would anyone bother play a zerk in such scenarios when you can also play a merc/bm in other realms, sure you have vendo but you dont always leave mpk with every ability up and this is the problem merc/bm even with jus 35 shield specc still would have access to back/sitestun and could do something at least to buy other grp mates the 5seconds they need to throw a heal or mezz while a zerk can just stick spam snare styles and hope either vendo is up or you get stun assist or else your target might just get sosed if hp gets low or just mocs and heals himself or uses moc bt. Even tho I dont see that often its an option.

I don't know what to tell you in that case. I am the exact same spec on my Merc that you'd be on your Zerker (minus 3 extra levels in parry) and I do perfectly fine solo, group and zerg. If you can't rely on others to pick up where you lack in group/zerg then you're running with an inexperienced group. Your job is to dish out as much melee dps as possible. Would having side stun help? Sure it'd be a bit nice, but if you are suggesting that you literally can't compete because you don't have access to slam or a side stun I really, truly, don't know what to tell you because by no means are you incapable of winning fights/getting kills simply because you don't have slam.

Like I said earlier - If you're hammer/LA spec you have an 7s evade stun option and a 7s parry stun option for when you're fighting solo.

If you're in a group/zerg - you have other people to stun for you so you can collapse and burst dps in positionals.

Will LA get a side stun? Probably, more than likely, but if you're absolutely depending on that change for your Berserker to start doing well you are/have been doing things wrong.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:17 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:14 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:43 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:37 PM
Of course they do, simply because you stated such. People who actually play the class know otherwise. Thanks for the input though.

Do... Do you actually play the class?

Yeah, I play a berserker. Do you?

Okay, how are you specc'd? Are you fully templated? Do you run combined forces/regeneration potions while solo with a str/con charge item?

Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:39 PM by Dariussdars

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:17 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:14 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:43 PM
Do... Do you actually play the class?

Yeah, I play a berserker. Do you?

Okay, how are you specc'd? Are you fully templated? Do you run combined forces/regeneration potions while solo with a str/con charge item?

Nice dodge. Do you play a zerk on Phoenix?

You tell everyone zerks are fine, but don't actually play a zerk
You tell everyone Hunters are fine, but don't play a Hunter either.
You also tell everyone that SBs are fine; shocker, you don't play a SB either.

Pretty cool you are an expert on how those 3 classes perform, despite not actually playing any of them.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:41 PM by Dariussdars

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:16 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:05 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:32 PM
Yeah... in that case use your positional styles, kill and move to the next target? I don't understand are you grouping or are you solo because depending on my response your argument is changing...

doesnt matter if you are solo or in a smallman here if you fight bigger numbers you will want to be able to stun a supporter or caster to not get qc rooted/mezzed or dont leave any room for a cleric/druid to use his instant heals so you stun when he is arround 50% then burst him down if his purge is down, same applies also to a bard or minst which could sos if you just have access to snare styles. Why would anyone bother play a zerk in such scenarios when you can also play a merc/bm in other realms, sure you have vendo but you dont always leave mpk with every ability up and this is the problem merc/bm even with jus 35 shield specc still would have access to back/sitestun and could do something at least to buy other grp mates the 5seconds they need to throw a heal or mezz while a zerk can just stick spam snare styles and hope either vendo is up or you get stun assist or else your target might just get sosed if hp gets low or just mocs and heals himself or uses moc bt. Even tho I dont see that often its an option.

I don't know what to tell you in that case. I am the exact same spec on my Merc that you'd be on your Zerker (minus 3 extra levels in parry) and I do perfectly fine solo, group and zerg. If you can't rely on others to pick up where you lack in group/zerg then you're running with an inexperienced group. Your job is to dish out as much melee dps as possible. Would having side stun help? Sure it'd be a bit nice, but if you are suggesting that you literally can't compete because you don't have access to slam or a side stun I really, truly, don't know what to tell you because by no means are you incapable of winning fights/getting kills simply because you don't have slam.

Like I said earlier - If you're hammer/LA spec you have an 7s evade stun option and a 7s parry stun option for when you're fighting solo.

If you're in a group/zerg - you have other people to stun for you so you can collapse and burst dps in positionals.

Will LA get a side stun? Probably, more than likely, but if you're absolutely depending on that change for your Berserker to start doing well you are/have been doing things wrong.

Like someone else already said, when exactly do you use the parry stun or evade stun when fighting someone who isn't meleeing you? Are you purposely daft, or just slow?

Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:01 PM by Ashenspire

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:15 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:59 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:37 PM
Of course they do, simply because you stated such. People who actually play the class know otherwise. Thanks for the input though.

There has never been any math to back up your claim. There's plenty to back up mine. I've played on my Berserkers throughout the years as well as my mercenaries to know what they're capable of.

No data will ever back up the claim that "mercs and BMs do more damage than zerks." It's just not true. Like I said, you're never going to see any beneficial changes to your class if you have to lie about it.

Do you play a zerk here on Phoenix? If the answer is no, just stop posting.

I do. And I've kept up with everything they've done to the three classes, and the changes they've made to LA and CDW.

LA does 5% more base damage than CDW. LA has higher growth rates than CDW. LA always swings both weapons, so they benefit from the haste effect on every swing.

If you look at an individual attack, sure, an individual merc's round could do more damage than an individual zerk's round. But nothing about analyzing one round of combat from each class should ever be used to make any kind of comparison. It's been beaten to death on all 73 "OMG BUFF SBS WE DO HALF THEIR DAMAGE" threads. This is not how you compare damage.

If you don't understand basic math, it doesn't matter whether you play the class or not. You still won't understand why you're wrong. Now, you're absolutely entitled to being wrong, just don't spout off nonsense about how Mercs and BMs do more damage than Zerkers. It's simply not true.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:03 PM by Ashenspire

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:13 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:59 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:37 PM
Of course they do, simply because you stated such. People who actually play the class know otherwise. Thanks for the input though.

There has never been any math to back up your claim. There's plenty to back up mine. I've played on my Berserkers throughout the years as well as my mercenaries to know what they're capable of.

No data will ever back up the claim that "mercs and BMs do more damage than zerks." It's just not true. Like I said, you're never going to see any beneficial changes to your class if you have to lie about it.

Where is the data showing zerks outdamage bms and mercs then? It goes both ways.

It doesn't go both ways. You're the one positing that zerks get beaten in damage. The burden of proof lies on you. Nevermind the fact that you won't find it, but you do you, boo boo.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:05 PM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:16 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:05 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:32 PM
Yeah... in that case use your positional styles, kill and move to the next target? I don't understand are you grouping or are you solo because depending on my response your argument is changing...

doesnt matter if you are solo or in a smallman here if you fight bigger numbers you will want to be able to stun a supporter or caster to not get qc rooted/mezzed or dont leave any room for a cleric/druid to use his instant heals so you stun when he is arround 50% then burst him down if his purge is down, same applies also to a bard or minst which could sos if you just have access to snare styles. Why would anyone bother play a zerk in such scenarios when you can also play a merc/bm in other realms, sure you have vendo but you dont always leave mpk with every ability up and this is the problem merc/bm even with jus 35 shield specc still would have access to back/sitestun and could do something at least to buy other grp mates the 5seconds they need to throw a heal or mezz while a zerk can just stick spam snare styles and hope either vendo is up or you get stun assist or else your target might just get sosed if hp gets low or just mocs and heals himself or uses moc bt. Even tho I dont see that often its an option.

I don't know what to tell you in that case. I am the exact same spec on my Merc that you'd be on your Zerker (minus 3 extra levels in parry) and I do perfectly fine solo, group and zerg. If you can't rely on others to pick up where you lack in group/zerg then you're running with an inexperienced group. Your job is to dish out as much melee dps as possible. Would having side stun help? Sure it'd be a bit nice, but if you are suggesting that you literally can't compete because you don't have access to slam or a side stun I really, truly, don't know what to tell you because by no means are you incapable of winning fights/getting kills simply because you don't have slam.

Like I said earlier - If you're hammer/LA spec you have an 7s evade stun option and a 7s parry stun option for when you're fighting solo.

If you're in a group/zerg - you have other people to stun for you so you can collapse and burst dps in positionals.

Will LA get a side stun? Probably, more than likely, but if you're absolutely depending on that change for your Berserker to start doing well you are/have been doing things wrong.

Guess I am out again you clearly dont even read what I wrote in one of the posts above I said I dont have a zerk and neither do I plan to make one.
Also your assumption to always have a good grp just shows that you dont play mid pug.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 10:54 PM by Dariussdars

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:03 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:13 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 7:59 PM
There has never been any math to back up your claim. There's plenty to back up mine. I've played on my Berserkers throughout the years as well as my mercenaries to know what they're capable of.

No data will ever back up the claim that "mercs and BMs do more damage than zerks." It's just not true. Like I said, you're never going to see any beneficial changes to your class if you have to lie about it.

Where is the data showing zerks outdamage bms and mercs then? It goes both ways.

It doesn't go both ways. You're the one positing that zerks get beaten in damage. The burden of proof lies on you. Nevermind the fact that you won't find it, but you do you, boo boo.

You are the one saying you have the data that shows zerks do more damage. You obviously don't, or you would post it.

Next time you make a claim, actually back it up.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:19 PM by Ashenspire

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 10:54 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:03 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:13 PM
Where is the data showing zerks outdamage bms and mercs then? It goes both ways.

It doesn't go both ways. You're the one positing that zerks get beaten in damage. The burden of proof lies on you. Nevermind the fact that you won't find it, but you do you, boo boo.

You are the one saying you have the data that shows zerks do more damage. You obviously don't, or you would post it.

Next time you make a claim, actually back it up.

I didn't post the data because it's common knowledge at this point it's been argued so many times on these very boards.

Left Axe does 77.3% damage with the main hand and .34% more damage per point of LA. The offhand starts at 52% and goes up .52% per point. At 1 LA, you have a total of 129.3% damage per swing.

Celtic Dual and dual wield does 100% damage with both the main hand and the offhand. However, the offhand only has a 25% chance to fire, with each point increasing the chance by .86%. At 1 CDW, you have a 100% chance to do 100% damage with the main hand, and 25% chance to do 100% damage with the offhand, giving you 125% damage per swing.

Now let's compare how they scale? Exactly the same. .86% damage per point.

"But Ash, since LA's main hand does less than 100% damage, won't they benefit from growth rates less than CDW?" Nope. Growth rates are calculated using 100% of the base damage of the main hand weapon regardless of the % reduction from Left Axe spec.

Throw on top of this that LA styles in general are higher in growth rate than CDW, and Berserkers pull even further ahead. It's really not a difficult concept. It's a dead horse that's been beaten a thousand times here. Find something new to cry about.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:23 PM by Dariussdars

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:19 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 10:54 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 9:03 PM
It doesn't go both ways. You're the one positing that zerks get beaten in damage. The burden of proof lies on you. Nevermind the fact that you won't find it, but you do you, boo boo.

You are the one saying you have the data that shows zerks do more damage. You obviously don't, or you would post it.

Next time you make a claim, actually back it up.

I didn't post the data because it's common knowledge at this point it's been argued so many times on these very boards.

Left Axe does 77.3% damage with the main hand and .34% more damage per point of LA. The offhand starts at 52% and goes up .52% per point. At 1 LA, you have a total of 129.3% damage per swing.

Celtic Dual and dual wield does 100% damage with both the main hand and the offhand. However, the offhand only has a 25% chance to fire, with each point increasing the chance by .86%. At 1 CDW, you have a 100% chance to do 100% damage with the main hand, and 25% chance to do 100% damage with the offhand, giving you 125% damage per swing.

Now let's compare how they scale? Exactly the same. .85% damage per point.

"But Ash, since LA's main hand does less than 100% damage, won't they benefit from growth rates less than CDW?" Nope. Growth rates are calculated using 100% of the base damage of the main hand weapon regardless of the % reduction from Left Axe spec.

Throw on top of this that LA styles in general are higher in growth rate than CDW, and Berserkers pull even further ahead. It's really not a difficult concept. It's a dead horse that's been beaten a thousand times here. Find something new to cry about.

So essentially all the people who play berserkers are wrong when they say that CD hits a lot harder? Good to know.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:23 PM by Ashenspire

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:23 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:19 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 10:54 PM
You are the one saying you have the data that shows zerks do more damage. You obviously don't, or you would post it.

Next time you make a claim, actually back it up.

I didn't post the data because it's common knowledge at this point it's been argued so many times on these very boards.

Left Axe does 77.3% damage with the main hand and .34% more damage per point of LA. The offhand starts at 52% and goes up .52% per point. At 1 LA, you have a total of 129.3% damage per swing.

Celtic Dual and dual wield does 100% damage with both the main hand and the offhand. However, the offhand only has a 25% chance to fire, with each point increasing the chance by .86%. At 1 CDW, you have a 100% chance to do 100% damage with the main hand, and 25% chance to do 100% damage with the offhand, giving you 125% damage per swing.

Now let's compare how they scale? Exactly the same. .85% damage per point.

"But Ash, since LA's main hand does less than 100% damage, won't they benefit from growth rates less than CDW?" Nope. Growth rates are calculated using 100% of the base damage of the main hand weapon regardless of the % reduction from Left Axe spec.

Throw on top of this that LA styles in general are higher in growth rate than CDW, and Berserkers pull even further ahead. It's really not a difficult concept. It's a dead horse that's been beaten a thousand times here. Find something new to cry about.
So essentially all the people who play berserkers are wrong when they say that CD hits a lot harder? Good to know.

Yes. Yes they are.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:28 PM by Dariussdars

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:23 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:23 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:19 PM
I didn't post the data because it's common knowledge at this point it's been argued so many times on these very boards.

Left Axe does 77.3% damage with the main hand and .34% more damage per point of LA. The offhand starts at 52% and goes up .52% per point. At 1 LA, you have a total of 129.3% damage per swing.

Celtic Dual and dual wield does 100% damage with both the main hand and the offhand. However, the offhand only has a 25% chance to fire, with each point increasing the chance by .86%. At 1 CDW, you have a 100% chance to do 100% damage with the main hand, and 25% chance to do 100% damage with the offhand, giving you 125% damage per swing.

Now let's compare how they scale? Exactly the same. .85% damage per point.

"But Ash, since LA's main hand does less than 100% damage, won't they benefit from growth rates less than CDW?" Nope. Growth rates are calculated using 100% of the base damage of the main hand weapon regardless of the % reduction from Left Axe spec.

Throw on top of this that LA styles in general are higher in growth rate than CDW, and Berserkers pull even further ahead. It's really not a difficult concept. It's a dead horse that's been beaten a thousand times here. Find something new to cry about.
So essentially all the people who play berserkers are wrong when they say that CD hits a lot harder? Good to know.

Yes. Yes they are.

So it's only their imagination when they hit for 140 mainhand/40 offhand, and get hit back for 200/60? But but but CD and DW have a high miss rate! Of course they do, that's why every NS/BM/melee Ranger/Merc always seem to hit like a truck with both hands. Miss rate is miniscule.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:34 PM by Ashenspire

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:28 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:23 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:23 PM
So essentially all the people who play berserkers are wrong when they say that CD hits a lot harder? Good to know.

Yes. Yes they are.

So it's only their imagination when they hit for 140 mainhand/40 offhand, and get hit back for 200/60? But but but CD and DW have a high miss rate! Of course they do, that's why every NS/BM/melee Ranger/Merc always seem to hit like a truck with both hands. Miss rate is miniscule.

And then the next round you'll hit for 140/40 and they'll hit for 200, and then your next round will come faster because of the off hand haste bonus that they didn't get because their offhand didn't fire, etc,etc.

Like I said from the get go, if you're analyzing a single round of combat, kindly stop talking, as you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just proving how ignorant you are of every mechanical difference between LA and CDW.

LA does more damage than CDW. That's not up for debate. Let it go

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:44 PM by Riac

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:34 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:28 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:23 PM
Yes. Yes they are.

So it's only their imagination when they hit for 140 mainhand/40 offhand, and get hit back for 200/60? But but but CD and DW have a high miss rate! Of course they do, that's why every NS/BM/melee Ranger/Merc always seem to hit like a truck with both hands. Miss rate is miniscule.

And then the next round you'll hit for 140/40 and they'll hit for 200, and then your next round will come faster because of the off hand haste bonus that they didn't get because their offhand didn't fire, etc,etc.

Like I said from the get go, if you're analyzing a single round of combat, kindly stop talking, as you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just proving how ignorant you are of every mechanical difference between LA and CDW.

LA does more damage than CDW. That's not up for debate. Let it go

that next round is still 180 vs the 200 only hit, i know these numbers are made up, but lol

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:49 PM by Ashenspire

Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:44 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:34 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:28 PM
So it's only their imagination when they hit for 140 mainhand/40 offhand, and get hit back for 200/60? But but but CD and DW have a high miss rate! Of course they do, that's why every NS/BM/melee Ranger/Merc always seem to hit like a truck with both hands. Miss rate is miniscule.

And then the next round you'll hit for 140/40 and they'll hit for 200, and then your next round will come faster because of the off hand haste bonus that they didn't get because their offhand didn't fire, etc,etc.

Like I said from the get go, if you're analyzing a single round of combat, kindly stop talking, as you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just proving how ignorant you are of every mechanical difference between LA and CDW.

LA does more damage than CDW. That's not up for debate. Let it go

that next round is still 180 vs the 200 only hit, i know these numbers are made up, but lol

And then your next round comes out faster than theirs. Weird how that works. Not to mention the 140/40 is already using a much faster weapon selection if they're hitting for 60 points more with their main hand.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:53 PM by Riac

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:49 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:44 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:34 PM
And then the next round you'll hit for 140/40 and they'll hit for 200, and then your next round will come faster because of the off hand haste bonus that they didn't get because their offhand didn't fire, etc,etc.

Like I said from the get go, if you're analyzing a single round of combat, kindly stop talking, as you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just proving how ignorant you are of every mechanical difference between LA and CDW.

LA does more damage than CDW. That's not up for debate. Let it go

that next round is still 180 vs the 200 only hit, i know these numbers are made up, but lol

And then your next round comes out faster than theirs. Weird how that works.

not sure how the zerks setup their mh and oh combos but i can tell you im not swinging any faster than these infs and NSs our here. some of these infs have an outrageous amount of attacks in a small amount of time. some of them even get a garrote off before my CD stun is up (there is a stunning stab in there for those that dont know) and i cant tell you thats not the case with me. 4.2 mg w/ 2.9 crafted oh. idk what their setup is. so im not sure the haste argument is all that good.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:57 PM by Dariussdars

Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:44 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:34 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:28 PM
So it's only their imagination when they hit for 140 mainhand/40 offhand, and get hit back for 200/60? But but but CD and DW have a high miss rate! Of course they do, that's why every NS/BM/melee Ranger/Merc always seem to hit like a truck with both hands. Miss rate is miniscule.

And then the next round you'll hit for 140/40 and they'll hit for 200, and then your next round will come faster because of the off hand haste bonus that they didn't get because their offhand didn't fire, etc,etc.

Like I said from the get go, if you're analyzing a single round of combat, kindly stop talking, as you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just proving how ignorant you are of every mechanical difference between LA and CDW.

LA does more damage than CDW. That's not up for debate. Let it go

that next round is still 180 vs the 200 only hit, i know these numbers are made up, but lol

Exactly. He just showed that CD/DW do outdamage LA. Last time I checked, 200>180 all day, everyday.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:58 PM by Dariussdars

Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:53 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:49 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:44 PM
that next round is still 180 vs the 200 only hit, i know these numbers are made up, but lol

And then your next round comes out faster than theirs. Weird how that works.

not sure how the zerks setup their mh and oh combos but i can tell you im not swinging any faster than these infs and NSs our here. some of these infs have an outrageous amount of attacks in a small amount of time. some of them even get a garrote off before my CD stun is up (there is a stunning stab in there for those that dont know) and i cant tell you thats not the case with me. 4.2 mg w/ 2.9 crafted oh. idk what their setup is. so im not sure the haste argument is all that good.

You have to consider the fact that Ashen and Amp don't play either a Zerk or an SB, so they have no idea what they are commenting on. I will take an SB or a Zerk talking about their damage over someone who doesn't even play the class.

Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:59 PM by Riac

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:57 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:44 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:34 PM
And then the next round you'll hit for 140/40 and they'll hit for 200, and then your next round will come faster because of the off hand haste bonus that they didn't get because their offhand didn't fire, etc,etc.

Like I said from the get go, if you're analyzing a single round of combat, kindly stop talking, as you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just proving how ignorant you are of every mechanical difference between LA and CDW.

LA does more damage than CDW. That's not up for debate. Let it go

that next round is still 180 vs the 200 only hit, i know these numbers are made up, but lol

Exactly. He just showed that CD/DW do outdamage LA. Last time I checked, 200>180 all day, everyday.

But these are made up numbers, hes was just trying to illustrate a point and didnt do the head math and looked silly because of it. with real numbers the picture might look a little different.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:07 AM by kmark101

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:34 PM
And then the next round you'll hit for 140/40 and they'll hit for 200, and then your next round will come faster because of the off hand haste bonus that they didn't get because their offhand didn't fire, etc,etc.

Like I said from the get go, if you're analyzing a single round of combat, kindly stop talking, as you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just proving how ignorant you are of every mechanical difference between LA and CDW.

LA does more damage than CDW. That's not up for debate. Let it go

Unfortunately your logic is flawed: you completely forgot to calculate with miss rates on Phoenix. Add the 15% general miss rate (offhand unstyled hits, since style +hitroll only counts for the mainhand swing) into the equation and you will see a rather deep drop in zerker dps.

Regarding your claims for growth rates and cc, let's compare the classes. I'm sure you don't want to argue with that if a style chain has a cc in it's first step that's much more desirable than 2nd or 3rd step cc options. So let's also count this as it defines the power of each class we are comparing. I'm also looking at LA/CD/DW here since that is the main class defining style line of the classes. I just add the growth rates to see the even bigger gap.

BM:
Back snare (12s) at level 8, growth rate: 0.65
Side stun (4s) at level 18, growth rate: 0.77
Strongest one step anytimer at level 6, growth rate: 0.59
Strongest one step style at level level 18, growth rate: 0.77
With shield spec: Slam - 9s anytime stun

Total: 1 snare 2 stun

Merc:
Side snare (12s) at level 29, growth rate: 0.85
No one step stun
Strongest one step anytimer at level 8, growth rate: 0.59
Strongest one step style at level at level 29, growth rate: 0.85
With shield spec: Slam - 9s anytime stun

Total: 1 snare 1 stun

Zerk:
No one step snare
No one step stun
Strongest one step anytimer at level 34, growth rate: 0.75
Strongest one step style at level 29 (back), growth rate: 0.95
No shield spec

Total: 0 snare 0 stun

Additional benefits of BM and Merc that Zerker doesn't have access to:
- Access to Thrust weapon, which is the strongest damage type of all available due to how resists are distributed between the realms
- Flurry

And finally, let's see a 1v1 situation between the classes, using their class defining abilities:
BM vs. Zerk - BM uses triple wield, completely negates the zerk's vendo mode, but does additional damage to the zerk, who can't negate that in any way.
Merc vs. Zerk - Merc uses dirty tricks, completely negates the zerks vendo mode AND all melee attacks, meanwhile does normal damage to the zerk, who can't do anything against it.
BM vs. Merc - Merc uses dirty tricks, completely negates the BM swings, but the BM still have the chance to land a slam first and win the fight. It's very even.

You can't honestly say that this is balanced.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:39 AM by Ashenspire

kmark101 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:07 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:34 PM
And then the next round you'll hit for 140/40 and they'll hit for 200, and then your next round will come faster because of the off hand haste bonus that they didn't get because their offhand didn't fire, etc,etc.

Like I said from the get go, if you're analyzing a single round of combat, kindly stop talking, as you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just proving how ignorant you are of every mechanical difference between LA and CDW.

LA does more damage than CDW. That's not up for debate. Let it go

Unfortunately your logic is flawed: you completely forgot to calculate with miss rates on Phoenix. Add the 15% general miss rate (offhand unstyled hits, since style +hitroll only counts for the mainhand swing) into the equation and you will see a rather deep drop in zerker dps.

Regarding your claims for growth rates and cc, let's compare the classes. I'm sure you don't want to argue with that if a style chain has a cc in it's first step that's much more desirable than 2nd or 3rd step cc options. So let's also count this as it defines the power of each class we are comparing. I'm also looking at LA/CD/DW here since that is the main class defining style line of the classes. I just add the growth rates to see the even bigger gap.

BM:
Back snare (12s) at level 8, growth rate: 0.65
Side stun (4s) at level 18, growth rate: 0.77
Strongest one step anytimer at level 6, growth rate: 0.59
Strongest one step style at level level 18, growth rate: 0.77
With shield spec: Slam - 9s anytime stun

Total: 1 snare 2 stun

Merc:
Side snare (12s) at level 29, growth rate: 0.85
No one step stun
Strongest one step anytimer at level 8, growth rate: 0.59
Strongest one step style at level at level 29, growth rate: 0.85
With shield spec: Slam - 9s anytime stun

Total: 1 snare 1 stun

Zerk:
No one step snare
No one step stun
Strongest one step anytimer at level 34, growth rate: 0.75
Strongest one step style at level 29 (back), growth rate: 0.95
No shield spec

Total: 0 snare 0 stun

Additional benefits of BM and Merc that Zerker doesn't have access to:
- Access to Thrust weapon, which is the strongest damage type of all available due to how resists are distributed between the realms
- Flurry

And finally, let's see a 1v1 situation between the classes, using their class defining abilities:
BM vs. Zerk - BM uses triple wield, completely negates the zerk's vendo mode, but does additional damage to the zerk, who can't negate that in any way.
Merc vs. Zerk - Merc uses dirty tricks, completely negates the zerks vendo mode AND all melee attacks, meanwhile does normal damage to the zerk, who can't do anything against it.
BM vs. Merc - Merc uses dirty tricks, completely negates the BM swings, but the BM still have the chance to land a slam first and win the fight. It's very even.

You can't honestly say that this is balanced.

Miss rates are a wash, what affects one will affect the other just as much.

Everything else in your post was about utility, which I never claimed that Zerks had enough of. My claim was always about their damage output, which is higher than the other 2. So that's neat.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:41 AM by Ashenspire

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:57 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:44 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:34 PM
And then the next round you'll hit for 140/40 and they'll hit for 200, and then your next round will come faster because of the off hand haste bonus that they didn't get because their offhand didn't fire, etc,etc.

Like I said from the get go, if you're analyzing a single round of combat, kindly stop talking, as you have no idea what you're talking about and you're just proving how ignorant you are of every mechanical difference between LA and CDW.

LA does more damage than CDW. That's not up for debate. Let it go

that next round is still 180 vs the 200 only hit, i know these numbers are made up, but lol

Exactly. He just showed that CD/DW do outdamage LA. Last time I checked, 200>180 all day, everyday.

So he pulls an individual round of combat out of his ass and proves me wrong? Not even close to how that works. I didn't say your next round of 140/40 will occur at the same time has his 200. There are so many factors that go into "how much damage" something can do that are being completely ignored.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:43 AM by Ashenspire

Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:59 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:57 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:44 PM
that next round is still 180 vs the 200 only hit, i know these numbers are made up, but lol

Exactly. He just showed that CD/DW do outdamage LA. Last time I checked, 200>180 all day, everyday.

But these are made up numbers, hes was just trying to illustrate a point and didnt do the head math and looked silly because of it. with real numbers the picture might look a little different.

What head math is there to do? Like I said, there's no putting any of these attacks in any kind of time frame, these numbers are meaningless.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:45 AM by Dariussdars

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:41 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:57 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:44 PM
that next round is still 180 vs the 200 only hit, i know these numbers are made up, but lol

Exactly. He just showed that CD/DW do outdamage LA. Last time I checked, 200>180 all day, everyday.

So he pulls an individual round of combat out of his ass and proves me wrong? Not even close to how that works. I didn't say your next round of 140/40 will occur at the same time has his 200. There are so many factors that go into "how much damage" something can do that are being completely ignored.

Um, you are the one who came up with the combat numbers. Did you pull them out of your ass? It's like you have no short term memory or something.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:47 AM by Ashenspire

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:58 PM
Riac wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:53 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:49 PM
And then your next round comes out faster than theirs. Weird how that works.

not sure how the zerks setup their mh and oh combos but i can tell you im not swinging any faster than these infs and NSs our here. some of these infs have an outrageous amount of attacks in a small amount of time. some of them even get a garrote off before my CD stun is up (there is a stunning stab in there for those that dont know) and i cant tell you thats not the case with me. 4.2 mg w/ 2.9 crafted oh. idk what their setup is. so im not sure the haste argument is all that good.
You have to consider the fact that Ashen and Amp don't play either a Zerk or an SB, so they have no idea what they are commenting on. I will take an SB or a Zerk talking about their damage over someone who doesn't even play the class.

You have to consider that no one has shown any math other than me, so to assume I don't know what I'm talking about is jokes. And you keep saying I don't play a Zerk or an SB. That's a pretty big assumption on your part.

As for the weapon setups, if you're 4.2/2.9, that means you always have a swing speed of 3.55 base. If they're 4.2/2.9 as well, they'll have a 4.2 swing speed sometimes, 3.55 others. Depends on their CDW spec. If they're attacking you faster, they're using faster weapons, but will hit for less. Or you've got an ASR on you, and you haven't returned the favor.

Once again, individual combat rounds are meaningless.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:48 AM by Ashenspire

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:45 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:41 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:57 PM
Exactly. He just showed that CD/DW do outdamage LA. Last time I checked, 200>180 all day, everyday.

So he pulls an individual round of combat out of his ass and proves me wrong? Not even close to how that works. I didn't say your next round of 140/40 will occur at the same time has his 200. There are so many factors that go into "how much damage" something can do that are being completely ignored.

Um, you are the one who came up with the combat numbers. Did you pull them out of your ass? It's like you have no short term memory or something.

Simple man, you're the one that used 140/40 vs 200/60. Get out of here with that mess.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 2:51 AM by kmark101

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:39 AM
Miss rates are a wash, what affects one will affect the other just as much.

Everything else in your post was about utility, which I never claimed that Zerks had enough of. My claim was always about their damage output, which is higher than the other 2. So that's neat.

Unfortunately you are still wrong with that. Let me explain why.
When you consider the styled +hitroll that only goes for mainhand hits. While zerker has 100% offhand hits, their mainhand hits only with 75%. That means that the +hitroll only applies to 75% of the hits, while for CD/DW it applies for 100% of the mainhand hits. This means, that while zerk hits more, his mainhand missrate has a much bigger effect on his mechanism.

Let's count with only an 5% hitroll difference (so instead of 15% miss rate, only 10% miss rate for a style with low bonus. That's a 33% difference. Now use this for the difference on the mainhand damage (100%-75%=25%) and you can see that 33% of the 25% goes to misses, which means that zerker is doing 8.25% LESS damage with their mainhand weapon, while all damage numbers are equal.

As I mentoined in my first post, the damage add contributes to a somehow higher damage on the mainhand, so that's why zerk has a slight advantage due to the damage add, while all things equal, and without damage add, zerker is at a damage disadvantage on Phoenix.

If you add the utility gap to this damage disadvantage, then you can see why zerker is lightyears behind their light tank counterparts and probably one of the weakest class in the game right now.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:49 AM by Ashenspire

kmark101 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 2:51 AM
While zerker has 100% offhand hits, their mainhand hits only with 75%. That means that the +hitroll only applies to 75% of the hits, while for CD/DW it applies for 100% of the mainhand hits.

No idea by what you mean when you say "hits only with 75%." You talking damage? Miss rate? Can't be talking about swing rate, that makes no sense. MH always swings with LA. Hit rate is wrong, as well, as its 82-85% based on who you ask. And damage is never that low even at 1 LA. It starts at 77.3%.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:25 AM by kmark101

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:49 AM
No idea by what you mean when you say "hits only with 75%." You talking damage? Miss rate? Can't be talking about swing rate, that makes no sense. MH always swings with LA. Hit rate is wrong, as well, as its 82-85% based on who you ask. And damage is never that low even at 1 LA. It starts at 77.3%.

See, that's the problem. You have no idea

Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:33 AM by Ashenspire

kmark101 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:25 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 3:49 AM
No idea by what you mean when you say "hits only with 75%." You talking damage? Miss rate? Can't be talking about swing rate, that makes no sense. MH always swings with LA. Hit rate is wrong, as well, as its 82-85% based on who you ask. And damage is never that low even at 1 LA. It starts at 77.3%.

See, that's the problem. You have no idea

You threw a bunch of meaningless numbers up there and came to the conclusion that Berserkers do 8.25% less damage because "Berserkers main hands hits only 75% vs CDWs 100%." No explanation of what those numbers are, and the values don't matchup with ANY numbers involved in the mechanical differences between the two skills. Completely talking out of your ass, but sure It's other people that have no idea.

Offhand misses are FAR more detrimental for CDW than LA when viewed on a per swing basis. But even that is a fallacious thing to take into consideration as one being stronger than the other as over time they will even out.

So again, miss rates are a wash.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:18 AM by jelzinga_EU

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:33 AM
Offhand misses are FAR more detrimental for CDW than LA when viewed on a per swing basis. But even that is a fallacious thing to take into consideration as one being stronger than the other as over time they will even out.

So again, miss rates are a wash.

Your reasoning is flawed. A larger portion of the overall damage of a LA-user is coming from his offhand. Therefore the miss-rate on the offhand is a larger portion of his DPS lost. . Even on a per swing basis a missed offhand is a larger DPS-loss for a LA-user than for a CD/DW-user.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:48 AM by Ashenspire

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:18 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:33 AM
Offhand misses are FAR more detrimental for CDW than LA when viewed on a per swing basis. But even that is a fallacious thing to take into consideration as one being stronger than the other as over time they will even out.

So again, miss rates are a wash.

Your reasoning is flawed. A larger portion of the overall damage of a LA-user is coming from his offhand. Therefore the miss-rate on the offhand is a larger portion of his DPS lost. . Even on a per swing basis a missed offhand is a larger DPS-loss for a LA-user than for a CD/DW-user.

Except that's not true, as, again, that's looking at it on an individual round basis. The LA user will always get another offhand attack the next round, whereas the CDW user may not.

The offhand miss rate of the LA user will be consistent, whereas for the CDW user you have 2 levels of RNG stacking which can be incredibly streaky and heavily against your favor. But, over time, they will even themselves out for both mechanics. Thus, again, they're a wash when you compare the two from a damage per second point of view, which is the only comparison that matters when talking about damage.

Otherwise, 2h weapons would be considered the highest damage in the game, which we know isn't true.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:10 PM by jelzinga_EU

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:48 AM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:18 AM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 4:33 AM
Offhand misses are FAR more detrimental for CDW than LA when viewed on a per swing basis. But even that is a fallacious thing to take into consideration as one being stronger than the other as over time they will even out.

So again, miss rates are a wash.

Your reasoning is flawed. A larger portion of the overall damage of a LA-user is coming from his offhand. Therefore the miss-rate on the offhand is a larger portion of his DPS lost. . Even on a per swing basis a missed offhand is a larger DPS-loss for a LA-user than for a CD/DW-user.

Except that's not true, as, again, that's looking at it on an individual round basis. The LA user will always get another offhand attack the next round, whereas the CDW user may not.

The offhand miss rate of the LA user will be consistent, whereas for the CDW user you have 2 levels of RNG stacking which can be incredibly streaky and heavily against your favor. But, over time, they will even themselves out for both mechanics. Thus, again, they're a wash when you compare the two from a damage per second point of view, which is the only comparison that matters when talking about damage.

Otherwise, 2h weapons would be considered the highest damage in the game, which we know isn't true.

On average the OH of a zerk contributes more to his total DPS than the OH of a BM/Merc : This is why the MH of the Zerk is penalized. If a larger part of your DPS is coming from the OH which has a larger miss-rate than the MH (assuming styled hits) then it is basic math the zerk gets penalized for a higher miss-rate more.

Streaks can be heavily against or in your favour, you simply assume it is against your favour - but obviously that is a flawed reasoning. The only thing you can do is say something about the averages.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:40 PM by Luluko

could you stop arguing who does the most dps? its just a matter what damage you do on what class and what timers/buffs you have mostly all the other things are just minor and dont help the thread. Zerk is lacking but not in dps thanks to troll race and vendo which can be reason enough you dont have to specc mopain, zerk needs a positional stun and than zerk is somewhat ok still lacking behind on certain things like flurry/shield specc but would make up for it with vendo and a sitestun in most situations. Certainly not when fighting a bm since tw negates every chance to get hit by a crit on the bm.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:41 PM by jelzinga_EU

Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:40 PM
could you stop arguing who does the most dps? its just a matter what damage you do on what class and what timers/buffs you have mostly all the other things are just minor and dont help the thread. Zerk is lacking but not in dps thanks to troll race and vendo which is can be reason enough you dont have to specc mopain, zerk needs a positional stun and than zerk is somewhat ok still lacking behind on certain things like flurry/shield specc but would make up for it with vendo and a sitestun in most situations. Certainly not when fighting a bm since tw negates every chance to get hit by a crit on the bm.

I don't think Tripplewield negates crits here on Phoenix tho ?

Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:48 PM by Ashenspire

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:10 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 11:48 AM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:18 AM
Your reasoning is flawed. A larger portion of the overall damage of a LA-user is coming from his offhand. Therefore the miss-rate on the offhand is a larger portion of his DPS lost. . Even on a per swing basis a missed offhand is a larger DPS-loss for a LA-user than for a CD/DW-user.

Except that's not true, as, again, that's looking at it on an individual round basis. The LA user will always get another offhand attack the next round, whereas the CDW user may not.

The offhand miss rate of the LA user will be consistent, whereas for the CDW user you have 2 levels of RNG stacking which can be incredibly streaky and heavily against your favor. But, over time, they will even themselves out for both mechanics. Thus, again, they're a wash when you compare the two from a damage per second point of view, which is the only comparison that matters when talking about damage.

Otherwise, 2h weapons would be considered the highest damage in the game, which we know isn't true.

On average the OH of a zerk contributes more to his total DPS than the OH of a BM/Merc : This is why the MH of the Zerk is penalized. If a larger part of your DPS is coming from the OH which has a larger miss-rate than the MH (assuming styled hits) then it is basic math the zerk gets penalized for a higher miss-rate more.

Streaks can be heavily against or in your favour, you simply assume it is against your favour - but obviously that is a flawed reasoning. The only thing you can do is say something about the averages.

You literally open up your statement with "on average." On Average, they will cancel each other out. Also, at 50+11 LA, the main hand does 98% damage compared to a CDW's mainhand of 100%, 99% at RR4, and 100% by RR7, at which point it's a moot point, and negligible before.

Not to mention in regards to Assassins, Shadowblades counterparts typically have a -10 defense penalty on their attacks whereas they're going to be using Doublefrost which doesn't suffer from the same thing.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 2:16 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:41 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:16 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:05 PM
doesnt matter if you are solo or in a smallman here if you fight bigger numbers you will want to be able to stun a supporter or caster to not get qc rooted/mezzed or dont leave any room for a cleric/druid to use his instant heals so you stun when he is arround 50% then burst him down if his purge is down, same applies also to a bard or minst which could sos if you just have access to snare styles. Why would anyone bother play a zerk in such scenarios when you can also play a merc/bm in other realms, sure you have vendo but you dont always leave mpk with every ability up and this is the problem merc/bm even with jus 35 shield specc still would have access to back/sitestun and could do something at least to buy other grp mates the 5seconds they need to throw a heal or mezz while a zerk can just stick spam snare styles and hope either vendo is up or you get stun assist or else your target might just get sosed if hp gets low or just mocs and heals himself or uses moc bt. Even tho I dont see that often its an option.

I don't know what to tell you in that case. I am the exact same spec on my Merc that you'd be on your Zerker (minus 3 extra levels in parry) and I do perfectly fine solo, group and zerg. If you can't rely on others to pick up where you lack in group/zerg then you're running with an inexperienced group. Your job is to dish out as much melee dps as possible. Would having side stun help? Sure it'd be a bit nice, but if you are suggesting that you literally can't compete because you don't have access to slam or a side stun I really, truly, don't know what to tell you because by no means are you incapable of winning fights/getting kills simply because you don't have slam.

Like I said earlier - If you're hammer/LA spec you have an 7s evade stun option and a 7s parry stun option for when you're fighting solo.

If you're in a group/zerg - you have other people to stun for you so you can collapse and burst dps in positionals.

Will LA get a side stun? Probably, more than likely, but if you're absolutely depending on that change for your Berserker to start doing well you are/have been doing things wrong.
Like someone else already said, when exactly do you use the parry stun or evade stun when fighting someone who isn't meleeing you? Are you purposely daft, or just slow?

Let me see if I can simplify this for you... You use positional styles when someone isn't melee'ing you goof ball

. You use your parry reactionary if you parry, and evade reactionary when you evade. I can give you a tutorial on how to pre-load combat styles if you'd like.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:08 PM by Luluko

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:41 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:40 PM
could you stop arguing who does the most dps? its just a matter what damage you do on what class and what timers/buffs you have mostly all the other things are just minor and dont help the thread. Zerk is lacking but not in dps thanks to troll race and vendo which is can be reason enough you dont have to specc mopain, zerk needs a positional stun and than zerk is somewhat ok still lacking behind on certain things like flurry/shield specc but would make up for it with vendo and a sitestun in most situations. Certainly not when fighting a bm since tw negates every chance to get hit by a crit on the bm.

I don't think Tripplewield negates crits here on Phoenix tho ?

I cant say for sure since I dont have a bm on phoenix but it used to be that way on live and for a very long time already, and the charplanner and tooltips never really mentioned it but it did negate melee crits when you had it up

Tue 23 Apr 2019 6:30 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 5:08 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:41 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 12:40 PM
could you stop arguing who does the most dps? its just a matter what damage you do on what class and what timers/buffs you have mostly all the other things are just minor and dont help the thread. Zerk is lacking but not in dps thanks to troll race and vendo which is can be reason enough you dont have to specc mopain, zerk needs a positional stun and than zerk is somewhat ok still lacking behind on certain things like flurry/shield specc but would make up for it with vendo and a sitestun in most situations. Certainly not when fighting a bm since tw negates every chance to get hit by a crit on the bm.

I don't think Tripplewield negates crits here on Phoenix tho ?
I cant say for sure since I dont have a bm on phoenix but it used to be that way on live and for a very long time already, and the charplanner and tooltips never really mentioned it but it did negate melee crits when you had it up

I can verify that TW on Live negates crits against the BM. But I cannot verify if that is true for Phoenix either.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 7:34 PM by bigne88

The butthurt is strong on midgard.
At this point, with amnesia too strong, root muschrooms OP, blademaster own zerker, caster dps too hig, why GM don't delete Hibernia realm?

Also delete necro and mercenary.

Than the tank train assist can have his victory!

I got a question as well, to this midgardians crybaby: it is really that fun playing a tank train assist game? How fun is it pressin stick, assist and than 1?
Instead of crying you shod consider getti g so e fresh air, or at least change realm.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:01 PM by Luluko

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 7:34 PM
The butthurt is strong on midgard.
At this point, with amnesia too strong, root muschrooms OP, blademaster own zerker, caster dps too hig, why GM don't delete Hibernia realm?

Also delete necro and mercenary.

Than the tank train assist can have his victory!

I got a question as well, to this midgardians crybaby: it is really that fun playing a tank train assist game? How fun is it pressin stick, assist and than 1?
Instead of crying you shod consider getti g so e fresh air, or at least change realm.

instead of crying about crybabies you should consider not posting kkthanksbye

Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:04 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:57 PM
Exactly. He just showed that CD/DW do outdamage LA. Last time I checked, 200>180 all day, everyday.

What's your Berserkers name?

Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:42 PM by Dariussdars

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 2:16 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:41 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 8:16 PM
I don't know what to tell you in that case. I am the exact same spec on my Merc that you'd be on your Zerker (minus 3 extra levels in parry) and I do perfectly fine solo, group and zerg. If you can't rely on others to pick up where you lack in group/zerg then you're running with an inexperienced group. Your job is to dish out as much melee dps as possible. Would having side stun help? Sure it'd be a bit nice, but if you are suggesting that you literally can't compete because you don't have access to slam or a side stun I really, truly, don't know what to tell you because by no means are you incapable of winning fights/getting kills simply because you don't have slam.

Like I said earlier - If you're hammer/LA spec you have an 7s evade stun option and a 7s parry stun option for when you're fighting solo.

If you're in a group/zerg - you have other people to stun for you so you can collapse and burst dps in positionals.

Will LA get a side stun? Probably, more than likely, but if you're absolutely depending on that change for your Berserker to start doing well you are/have been doing things wrong.
Like someone else already said, when exactly do you use the parry stun or evade stun when fighting someone who isn't meleeing you? Are you purposely daft, or just slow?

Let me see if I can simplify this for you... You use positional styles when someone isn't melee'ing you goof ball . You use your parry reactionary if you parry, and evade reactionary when you evade. I can give you a tutorial on how to pre-load combat styles if you'd like.

Which POSITIONAL stun does the zerk use against a non melee class? God you are such a ewaste of time replying to.

Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:15 PM by teiloh

Wonder why Mid is so overpop if they're so weak

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:38 PM by cortexqc

teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:15 PM
Wonder why Mid is so overpop if they're so weak

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

cause Mid is the more open/social/easy to group realm.
i tryed hib, and alb, it's really hard to find group to level or rvr when 50.

it's not always about power... a bad community is more harmfull than a low/weak realm

Tue 23 Apr 2019 10:02 PM by bigne88

cortexqc wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:38 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:15 PM
Wonder why Mid is so overpop if they're so weak

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

cause Mid is the more open/social/easy to group realm.
i tryed hib, and alb, it's really hard to find group to level or rvr when 50.

it's not always about power... a bad community is more harmfull than a low/weak realm

So all the social/random/puggers joins mid cuz is easy and low effort to tank train assist and the good players choose more rewarding/fun/hard realms/gameplay.
Ergo all this rant about mid being in need of some boost comes from low skilled/clueless players.
I see...

Tue 23 Apr 2019 10:52 PM by Luluko

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 10:02 PM
cortexqc wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:38 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:15 PM
Wonder why Mid is so overpop if they're so weak

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

cause Mid is the more open/social/easy to group realm.
i tryed hib, and alb, it's really hard to find group to level or rvr when 50.

it's not always about power... a bad community is more harmfull than a low/weak realm

So all the social/random/puggers joins mid cuz is easy and low effort to tank train assist and the good players choose more rewarding/fun/hard realms/gameplay.
Ergo all this rant about mid being in need of some boost comes from low skilled/clueless players.
I see...

Must be nice to live in the bubble of yours.

While you maybe have a small point with some clueless players in mid that doesnt make everyone skilled in alb or hib. And where you are really wrong the good players will choose the best realm where they can play the most effective grps (that has nothing to do with rewarding or hard gameplay lol if u want that play Sekiro), I would say thats hib they also have most of the high rr players. Even tho many rps of those only come from killing low rr noobs and lesser numbers and tanglers/sos if they are too many. Good players dont want to fight the zerg they want to farm rps and not die.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:38 AM by Dariussdars

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 10:02 PM
cortexqc wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:38 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:15 PM
Wonder why Mid is so overpop if they're so weak

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

cause Mid is the more open/social/easy to group realm.
i tryed hib, and alb, it's really hard to find group to level or rvr when 50.

it's not always about power... a bad community is more harmfull than a low/weak realm

So all the social/random/puggers joins mid cuz is easy and low effort to tank train assist and the good players choose more rewarding/fun/hard realms/gameplay.
Ergo all this rant about mid being in need of some boost comes from low skilled/clueless players.
I see...

Typical whiny Alb or Hib player who thinks every Mid class is overpowered. Same crying that has been going on for 20 years. Never gets old.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:39 AM by Dariussdars

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 10:02 PM
cortexqc wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:38 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:15 PM
Wonder why Mid is so overpop if they're so weak

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

cause Mid is the more open/social/easy to group realm.
i tryed hib, and alb, it's really hard to find group to level or rvr when 50.

it's not always about power... a bad community is more harmfull than a low/weak realm

So all the social/random/puggers joins mid cuz is easy and low effort to tank train assist and the good players choose more rewarding/fun/hard realms/gameplay.
Ergo all this rant about mid being in need of some boost comes from low skilled/clueless players.
I see...

Derp, because every Mid class fits on the tank train. Quit crying already, and learn how to play any of your realms classes.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:56 AM by Dariussdars

teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:15 PM
Wonder why Mid is so overpop if they're so weak

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

70 or so more characters than the other realms obviously shows Mid is overpowered.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 1:36 AM by teiloh

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:56 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:15 PM
Wonder why Mid is so overpop if they're so weak

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

70 or so more characters than the other realms obviously shows Mid is overpowered.

Oh yeah it's a trivial advantage to bring 40 more people to a fight

Wed 24 Apr 2019 1:45 AM by Riac

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 1:36 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:56 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:15 PM
Wonder why Mid is so overpop if they're so weak

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

70 or so more characters than the other realms obviously shows Mid is overpowered.

Oh yeah it's a trivial advantage to bring 40 more people to a fight

never seen the whole realm @ a fight, thatd be crazy. if anything you could argue it makes getting a group easier, but thats about it.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 2:25 AM by kmark101

If mids wouldn't have savages the whole realm would be in ruins. Zerks are negligible fodder atm.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 4:28 AM by RaisingSun

dudis wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 1:16 PM
I'm all for giving zerks and SBs a 4 or 5 sec side stun in LA.

And 50% bonus to damage just to compete with Shades and Blademasters. Then would be even. I stop playing my SB, because of the BS damage NS where doing. I see the numbers falling like a rock. I hope they remain blind and don't do a thing. Solo's be damned!
I'm done with the Phoenix experiment.
Fun factor 1/10
Player support factor 1/10

Wed 24 Apr 2019 4:31 AM by Ashenspire

RaisingSun wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 4:28 AM
dudis wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 1:16 PM
I'm all for giving zerks and SBs a 4 or 5 sec side stun in LA.

And 50% bonus to damage just to compete with Shades and Blademasters. Then would be even. I stop playing my SB, because of the BS damage NS where doing. I see the numbers falling like a rock. I hope they remain blind and don't do a thing. Solo's be damned!
I'm done with the Phoenix experiment.
Fun factor 1/10
Player support factor 1/10

And nothing of value was lost.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 4:31 AM by Riac

RaisingSun wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 4:28 AM
dudis wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 1:16 PM
I'm all for giving zerks and SBs a 4 or 5 sec side stun in LA.

And 50% bonus to damage just to compete with Shades and Blademasters. Then would be even. I stop playing my SB, because of the BS damage NS where doing. I see the numbers falling like a rock. I hope they remain blind and don't do a thing. Solo's be damned!
I'm done with the Phoenix experiment.
Fun factor 1/10
Player support factor 1/10

tbh, ns arent that bad, all you need to do is outrank them and np. fold all day. that being said, id love a sidestun.

next event should be giving everyone side stun and removing strafing from combat. lol

Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:58 AM by bigne88

RaisingSun wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 4:28 AM
dudis wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 1:16 PM
I'm all for giving zerks and SBs a 4 or 5 sec side stun in LA.

And 50% bonus to damage just to compete with Shades and Blademasters. Then would be even. I stop playing my SB, because of the BS damage NS where doing. I see the numbers falling like a rock. I hope they remain blind and don't do a thing. Solo's be damned!
I'm done with the Phoenix experiment.
Fun factor 1/10
Player support factor 1/10

Nice attitude dude 10QI.
Can I have your loot?

Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:03 AM by bigne88

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:38 AM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 10:02 PM
cortexqc wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:38 PM
cause Mid is the more open/social/easy to group realm.
i tryed hib, and alb, it's really hard to find group to level or rvr when 50.

it's not always about power... a bad community is more harmfull than a low/weak realm

So all the social/random/puggers joins mid cuz is easy and low effort to tank train assist and the good players choose more rewarding/fun/hard realms/gameplay.
Ergo all this rant about mid being in need of some boost comes from low skilled/clueless players.
I see...
Typical whiny Alb or Hib player who thinks every Mid class is overpowered. Same crying that has been going on for 20 years. Never gets old.

Mid's players are the winers, not me. Check all the threads on the forum and you will find that half of them are something like: bm pen zerk, amnesia too stronk, caster dps too hig, tanglers OP etc...

I'm a terrible hib player and get steamrolled on daily basis in emain by the mid tank zerg and still I dont cry or blackmail with the card "pimp mid or i quit the server"

Tough I have one thing to solve all this crying: give light tanks the charge RA ability

Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:08 AM by Riac

pimp mid, yet amnesia breaks spead from bolt range and tanglers are a thing still..... yep, checks out... pimp mid.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:09 AM by bigne88

Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:08 AM
pimp mid, yet amnesia breaks spead from bolt range and tanglers are a thing still..... yep, checks out... pimp mid.

How many 8v8 party runs animist?
1, right?

Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:42 AM by Saroi

RaisingSun wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 4:28 AM
dudis wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 1:16 PM
I'm all for giving zerks and SBs a 4 or 5 sec side stun in LA.

And 50% bonus to damage just to compete with Shades and Blademasters. Then would be even. I stop playing my SB, because of the BS damage NS where doing. I see the numbers falling like a rock. I hope they remain blind and don't do a thing. Solo's be damned!
I'm done with the Phoenix experiment.
Fun factor 1/10
Player support factor 1/10

Left Axe already has a bonus damage on this server compared to live. How about you just spec right and run full buffed/charged. My SB does more than enough damage. There aren't much good NS out there. The only NS that got me killed was Xann, but I killed him too. All the other NS run around in grps to gang up on you but even 2v1, 1 NS still dies. Just stop this Bullshit that SB and LA are weak.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:09 AM by Saroi

As a SB I would gladly take a sidestun because I don't run with CS. But that would also be a huge buff. If LA given Sidestun, you would also need to buff CD.
CD Styles are crap. You don't have any good anytimer. You have a follow up which can be missed/dodged/blocked/parried and the first part has a low growth Rate and defense penalty. LA Styles on the otherhand are one of the best and highest growth Rate, with especially Doublefrost of being one of the best anytimer in the game.

If you look at the Chain. LA has a backstyle chain with a dd cold proc that does around 120 damage. CD sidechain doesn't have that.

If you play NS, you are forced to spec into CS, because the anytimer on Hib are shit. THe only reason to spec CD is to get the sidestun and to increase your chance to hit with your offhand, other than that there is no reason to go CD.

And looking at the Natebrunner videos, Vendo crits aside. I haven't seen any BM or Merc hit me for so much normal damage.

I srsly don't get this whining about LA.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 9:30 AM by Dariussdars

Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:09 AM
As a SB I would gladly take a sidestun because I don't run with CS. But that would also be a huge buff. If LA given Sidestun, you would also need to buff CD.
CD Styles are crap. You don't have any good anytimer. You have a follow up which can be missed/dodged/blocked/parried and the first part has a low growth Rate and defense penalty. LA Styles on the otherhand are one of the best and highest growth Rate, with especially Doublefrost of being one of the best anytimer in the game.

If you look at the Chain. LA has a backstyle chain with a dd cold proc that does around 120 damage. CD sidechain doesn't have that.

If you play NS, you are forced to spec into CS, because the anytimer on Hib are shit. THe only reason to spec CD is to get the sidestun and to increase your chance to hit with your offhand, other than that there is no reason to go CD.

And looking at the Natebrunner videos, Vendo crits aside. I haven't seen any BM or Merc hit me for so much normal damage.

I srsly don't get this whining about LA.

You are using a high RR zerk as your example of how hard zerks hit? Every video he makes it is vendo+reflex attack 5. Great example to show that zerk damage is perfectly fine.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 9:31 AM by Dariussdars

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:03 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:38 AM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 10:02 PM
So all the social/random/puggers joins mid cuz is easy and low effort to tank train assist and the good players choose more rewarding/fun/hard realms/gameplay.
Ergo all this rant about mid being in need of some boost comes from low skilled/clueless players.
I see...
Typical whiny Alb or Hib player who thinks every Mid class is overpowered. Same crying that has been going on for 20 years. Never gets old.

Mid's players are the winers, not me. Check all the threads on the forum and you will find that half of them are something like: bm pen zerk, amnesia too stronk, caster dps too hig, tanglers OP etc...

I'm a terrible hib player and get steamrolled on daily basis in emain by the mid tank zerg and still I dont cry or blackmail with the card "pimp mid or i quit the server"

Tough I have one thing to solve all this crying: give light tanks the charge RA ability

Every single post you make you whine and cry about the Mid tank assist train. Albs and Hibs don't know how to assist or something?

Wed 24 Apr 2019 9:33 AM by Dariussdars

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 1:36 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:56 AM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 9:15 PM
Wonder why Mid is so overpop if they're so weak

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

70 or so more characters than the other realms obviously shows Mid is overpowered.

Oh yeah it's a trivial advantage to bring 40 more people to a fight

Ah, so all 70 of the additional Mid players are all level 50, and out in RvR? Just like you claiming that BDs are everywhere in the frontier, despite there being like 30 level 50 BDs on, and about 13 total in the frontiers? Ever wonder why no one takes anything you say seriously?

Wed 24 Apr 2019 9:47 AM by Saroi

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 9:30 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:09 AM
As a SB I would gladly take a sidestun because I don't run with CS. But that would also be a huge buff. If LA given Sidestun, you would also need to buff CD.
CD Styles are crap. You don't have any good anytimer. You have a follow up which can be missed/dodged/blocked/parried and the first part has a low growth Rate and defense penalty. LA Styles on the otherhand are one of the best and highest growth Rate, with especially Doublefrost of being one of the best anytimer in the game.

If you look at the Chain. LA has a backstyle chain with a dd cold proc that does around 120 damage. CD sidechain doesn't have that.

If you play NS, you are forced to spec into CS, because the anytimer on Hib are shit. THe only reason to spec CD is to get the sidestun and to increase your chance to hit with your offhand, other than that there is no reason to go CD.

And looking at the Natebrunner videos, Vendo crits aside. I haven't seen any BM or Merc hit me for so much normal damage.

I srsly don't get this whining about LA.

You are using a high RR zerk as your example of how hard zerks hit? Every video he makes it is vendo+reflex attack 5. Great example to show that zerk damage is perfectly fine.

Did you read what I wrote? I said Vendo crits aside. Look at the damage he does with Doublefrost. He his hitting like 200-250 Mainhand with Doublefrost, the anytimer style. Since you already said he has reflex attack 5 and uses purge, he doesn't have any RA to boost his normal damage (like Aug Str. 5+).

He also just got RR 7 and has been doing videos for a while now, with rr5 and so. Now that is not really high RR, especially when you get RA's that do not boost your normal damage. And you can't tell me that hitting enemies with 200-250 damage from your anytimer is low damage.

Look at the video vs Thanatos. RR 7 Berserker vs RR 8 BM. Nate hit him with Doublefrost 246 Mainhand his offhand doing 93 Damage.
Thanatos doing 176 Mainhand and his offhand hitting for 84 damage.
Now again this is all just Styles, without crits or anything.

Yup. Berserker srsly need to be buffed.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 11:57 AM by Luluko

Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 9:47 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 9:30 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:09 AM
As a SB I would gladly take a sidestun because I don't run with CS. But that would also be a huge buff. If LA given Sidestun, you would also need to buff CD.
CD Styles are crap. You don't have any good anytimer. You have a follow up which can be missed/dodged/blocked/parried and the first part has a low growth Rate and defense penalty. LA Styles on the otherhand are one of the best and highest growth Rate, with especially Doublefrost of being one of the best anytimer in the game.

If you look at the Chain. LA has a backstyle chain with a dd cold proc that does around 120 damage. CD sidechain doesn't have that.

If you play NS, you are forced to spec into CS, because the anytimer on Hib are shit. THe only reason to spec CD is to get the sidestun and to increase your chance to hit with your offhand, other than that there is no reason to go CD.

And looking at the Natebrunner videos, Vendo crits aside. I haven't seen any BM or Merc hit me for so much normal damage.

I srsly don't get this whining about LA.

You are using a high RR zerk as your example of how hard zerks hit? Every video he makes it is vendo+reflex attack 5. Great example to show that zerk damage is perfectly fine.

Did you read what I wrote? I said Vendo crits aside. Look at the damage he does with Doublefrost. He his hitting like 200-250 Mainhand with Doublefrost, the anytimer style. Since you already said he has reflex attack 5 and uses purge, he doesn't have any RA to boost his normal damage (like Aug Str. 5+).

He also just got RR 7 and has been doing videos for a while now, with rr5 and so. Now that is not really high RR, especially when you get RA's that do not boost your normal damage. And you can't tell me that hitting enemies with 200-250 damage from your anytimer is low damage.

Look at the video vs Thanatos. RR 7 Berserker vs RR 8 BM. Nate hit him with Doublefrost 246 Mainhand his offhand doing 93 Damage.
Thanatos doing 176 Mainhand and his offhand hitting for 84 damage.
Now again this is all just Styles, without crits or anything.

Yup. Berserker srsly need to be buffed.

isnt nate crush and thanatos pierce? then nate would do + 20% dam on him and thanatos -20% just because of the armor tables
if that is your example of zerk damage if not debuffed, show us some numbers where a zerk is on a cleric with crush specc all on its own and vendo isnt up then it will prlly be like 180 mainhand damage also thanatos is an elf and has like what 40 starting strength compared to 100 of a troll even if it is just 50% if pierce specc his damage is pretty good if he was pierce in this fight

Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:29 PM by Saroi

Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 11:57 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 9:47 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 9:30 AM
You are using a high RR zerk as your example of how hard zerks hit? Every video he makes it is vendo+reflex attack 5. Great example to show that zerk damage is perfectly fine.

Did you read what I wrote? I said Vendo crits aside. Look at the damage he does with Doublefrost. He his hitting like 200-250 Mainhand with Doublefrost, the anytimer style. Since you already said he has reflex attack 5 and uses purge, he doesn't have any RA to boost his normal damage (like Aug Str. 5+).

He also just got RR 7 and has been doing videos for a while now, with rr5 and so. Now that is not really high RR, especially when you get RA's that do not boost your normal damage. And you can't tell me that hitting enemies with 200-250 damage from your anytimer is low damage.

Look at the video vs Thanatos. RR 7 Berserker vs RR 8 BM. Nate hit him with Doublefrost 246 Mainhand his offhand doing 93 Damage.
Thanatos doing 176 Mainhand and his offhand hitting for 84 damage.
Now again this is all just Styles, without crits or anything.

Yup. Berserker srsly need to be buffed.
isnt nate crush and thanatos pierce? then nate would do + 20% dam on him and thanatos -20% just because of the armor tables
if that is your example of zerk damage if not debuffed, show us some numbers where a zerk is on a cleric with crush specc all on its own and vendo isnt up then it will prlly be like 180 mainhand damage also thanatos is an elf and has like what 40 starting strength compared to 100 of a troll even if it is just 50% if pierce specc his damage is pretty good if he was pierce in this fight

The damage is 10% not 20%.
Vulnerable = +10% damage
Neutral = 0% Damage ( Basically your normal damage )
Resistant = 10% less damage

Thanatos had hammer(crush) weapons, which means it is neutral to all Midgard. So now damage reduction here.
Also Thanatos is Celt and not Elf.

And maybe the Zerk will do less damage to a Cleric. But what do you exactly want to tell me? It will also mean the BM will do less damage. Also 180 Mainhand is more than enough, since you also always hit with your offhand. If a Zerk does more damage or even damage with his Mainhand than a BM and always hits with his Offhand too, which a BM does not, I don't know how anyone can say a Zerk is weak.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 1:47 PM by Luluko

Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 12:29 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 11:57 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 9:47 AM
Did you read what I wrote? I said Vendo crits aside. Look at the damage he does with Doublefrost. He his hitting like 200-250 Mainhand with Doublefrost, the anytimer style. Since you already said he has reflex attack 5 and uses purge, he doesn't have any RA to boost his normal damage (like Aug Str. 5+).

He also just got RR 7 and has been doing videos for a while now, with rr5 and so. Now that is not really high RR, especially when you get RA's that do not boost your normal damage. And you can't tell me that hitting enemies with 200-250 damage from your anytimer is low damage.

Look at the video vs Thanatos. RR 7 Berserker vs RR 8 BM. Nate hit him with Doublefrost 246 Mainhand his offhand doing 93 Damage.
Thanatos doing 176 Mainhand and his offhand hitting for 84 damage.
Now again this is all just Styles, without crits or anything.

Yup. Berserker srsly need to be buffed.
isnt nate crush and thanatos pierce? then nate would do + 20% dam on him and thanatos -20% just because of the armor tables
if that is your example of zerk damage if not debuffed, show us some numbers where a zerk is on a cleric with crush specc all on its own and vendo isnt up then it will prlly be like 180 mainhand damage also thanatos is an elf and has like what 40 starting strength compared to 100 of a troll even if it is just 50% if pierce specc his damage is pretty good if he was pierce in this fight

The damage is 10% not 20%.
Vulnerable = +10% damage
Neutral = 0% Damage ( Basically your normal damage )
Resistant = 10% less damage

Thanatos had hammer(crush) weapons, which means it is neutral to all Midgard. So now damage reduction here.
Also Thanatos is Celt and not Elf.

And maybe the Zerk will do less damage to a Cleric. But what do you exactly want to tell me? It will also mean the BM will do less damage. Also 180 Mainhand is more than enough, since you also always hit with your offhand. If a Zerk does more damage or even damage with his Mainhand than a BM and always hits with his Offhand too, which a BM does not, I don't know how anyone can say a Zerk is weak.

damage isnt everything and offhand swings can also lead to more after evade or block styles from your enemies so that doesnt have to mean you generaly do more damage in 1vs1 situations vs other classes especially assassins

I could have sworn he was thrust at one point since I melted pretty fast on my skald once and also elf but not 100% sure with the elf thing well still you always have to look at the damage tables and an easy stun can be 400-1000 free damage if purge isnt up and yourself take no damage except from bleeds or dots then... I would say having a positional stun is quite important and some people here just dont want to admit that

Wed 24 Apr 2019 5:57 PM by kmark101

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:09 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:08 AM
pimp mid, yet amnesia breaks spead from bolt range and tanglers are a thing still..... yep, checks out... pimp mid.

How many 8v8 party runs animist?
1, right?

And that 1 animist blocks 100 mids alone with tanglers. He pushes 1 button and 100 mids blocked and interrupted, without any chance to do anything. Now imagine if another 8man group would run 1 more animist...

Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:10 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:42 PM
Which POSITIONAL stun does the zerk use against a non melee class? God you are such a ewaste of time replying to.

Holy crap this is unbelievable. You use your positional styles on someone that isn't melee'ing you and/or running away from you for the higher growth rate and increased damage output man. Sheesh no wonder you're struggling so badly on your Berserker.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:13 PM by Amp_Phetamine

RaisingSun wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 4:28 AM
dudis wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Apr 2019 1:16 PM
I'm all for giving zerks and SBs a 4 or 5 sec side stun in LA.

And 50% bonus to damage just to compete with Shades and Blademasters. Then would be even. I stop playing my SB, because of the BS damage NS where doing. I see the numbers falling like a rock. I hope they remain blind and don't do a thing. Solo's be damned!
I'm done with the Phoenix experiment.
Fun factor 1/10
Player support factor 1/10

You've gotta be in the <10% of the player population that struggles on Shadow Blades. They're by no means struggling what so ever. Giving them and berserkers a side stun in LA would just be a nice cherry added to the proverbial ice cream. They don't "NEED" it, but it'd certainly be beneficial. There's apparently a lot of trash players with big mouths.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:18 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:04 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 22 Apr 2019 11:57 PM
Exactly. He just showed that CD/DW do outdamage LA. Last time I checked, 200>180 all day, everyday.

What's your Berserkers name?

What's your Berserkers name Dariussdars?

Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:21 PM by Ashenspire

kmark101 wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 5:57 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:09 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 7:08 AM
pimp mid, yet amnesia breaks spead from bolt range and tanglers are a thing still..... yep, checks out... pimp mid.

How many 8v8 party runs animist?
1, right?

And that 1 animist blocks 100 mids alone with tanglers. He pushes 1 button and 100 mids blocked and interrupted, without any chance to do anything. Now imagine if another 8man group would run 1 more animist...

A healer pushing one button can shut down a field of tanglers. Stop being bad.

Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:27 PM by Dariussdars

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:10 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:42 PM
Which POSITIONAL stun does the zerk use against a non melee class? God you are such a ewaste of time replying to.

Holy crap this is unbelievable. You use your positional styles on someone that isn't melee'ing you and/or running away from you for the higher growth rate and increased damage output man. Sheesh no wonder you're struggling so badly on your Berserker.

Yep, weird how you are unable to actually say that zerks lack any positional stuns, or access to slam like BMs and mercs get. I'm sure you would give up your stuns, since zerks don't get them, right?

Thu 25 Apr 2019 4:57 AM by Saroi

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:27 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:10 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:42 PM
Which POSITIONAL stun does the zerk use against a non melee class? God you are such a ewaste of time replying to.

Holy crap this is unbelievable. You use your positional styles on someone that isn't melee'ing you and/or running away from you for the higher growth rate and increased damage output man. Sheesh no wonder you're struggling so badly on your Berserker.

Yep, weird how you are unable to actually say that zerks lack any positional stuns, or access to slam like BMs and mercs get. I'm sure you would give up your stuns, since zerks don't get them, right?

I am sure BM/Merc would give away their stuns for LA damage/stlyes. Also they don't have a pac healer behind who has access to single and AoE stuns. DAoC is a RvR Game and not a 1v1 Game. Zerk don't have access to easy stuns, so that is the job of other classes, like Healer or Warrior. It is not like you are the only one hitting an enemy in a group. Zerker's job is to deal damage, which he does a lot.

Yes later SB/Zerk got access to Sidestun in DAoC, but the other realms also got access to good anytimers like Meteor Shower or Side/Behind styles growth rate higher to compensate. RIght now Only the last Sidechain from CD has the same Growth Rate has the last Backchain from LA. The other attacks are all lower.

You can't have like one of the highest Growth Rate styles, best anytimer and insane damage and then expect to also have access to stuns.

Merc/BM don't have a pac healer behind them who has access to stuns. So for Merc/BM speccing into shield they are sacrificing damage for it, since they can't spec 50 weapon and CD/DW. Also instead of being able to attack right away with both weapons, you use slam which doesn't deal the greatest damage and also can be dodged/parried/blocked and especially missed, since it has 0 to hit chance.

And at last. You say any positional stuns? Hammer has a 2nd part sidestun, maybe only 2 seconds but it is enough to interrupt and kill a caster if you need it.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 9:03 AM by Dariussdars

Saroi wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 4:57 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:27 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:10 PM
Holy crap this is unbelievable. You use your positional styles on someone that isn't melee'ing you and/or running away from you for the higher growth rate and increased damage output man. Sheesh no wonder you're struggling so badly on your Berserker.

Yep, weird how you are unable to actually say that zerks lack any positional stuns, or access to slam like BMs and mercs get. I'm sure you would give up your stuns, since zerks don't get them, right?

I am sure BM/Merc would give away their stuns for LA damage/stlyes. Also they don't have a pac healer behind who has access to single and AoE stuns. DAoC is a RvR Game and not a 1v1 Game. Zerk don't have access to easy stuns, so that is the job of other classes, like Healer or Warrior. It is not like you are the only one hitting an enemy in a group. Zerker's job is to deal damage, which he does a lot.

Yes later SB/Zerk got access to Sidestun in DAoC, but the other realms also got access to good anytimers like Meteor Shower or Side/Behind styles growth rate higher to compensate. RIght now Only the last Sidechain from CD has the same Growth Rate has the last Backchain from LA. The other attacks are all lower.

You can't have like one of the highest Growth Rate styles, best anytimer and insane damage and then expect to also have access to stuns.

Merc/BM don't have a pac healer behind them who has access to stuns. So for Merc/BM speccing into shield they are sacrificing damage for it, since they can't spec 50 weapon and CD/DW. Also instead of being able to attack right away with both weapons, you use slam which doesn't deal the greatest damage and also can be dodged/parried/blocked and especially missed, since it has 0 to hit chance.

And at last. You say any positional stuns? Hammer has a 2nd part sidestun, maybe only 2 seconds but it is enough to interrupt and kill a caster if you need it.

Yeah, Hibernia is certainly lacking in baseline stuns.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 11:34 AM by bigne88

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:27 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:10 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:42 PM
Which POSITIONAL stun does the zerk use against a non melee class? God you are such a ewaste of time replying to.

Holy crap this is unbelievable. You use your positional styles on someone that isn't melee'ing you and/or running away from you for the higher growth rate and increased damage output man. Sheesh no wonder you're struggling so badly on your Berserker.

Yep, weird how you are unable to actually say that zerks lack any positional stuns, or access to slam like BMs and mercs get. I'm sure you would give up your stuns, since zerks don't get them, right?

Ok, give zerkers side stun and slam, but than give vendo and LA to bm and merc, and celerity too.

I read someone here bragging about RP earning differences: do this people knows about RP bonuses for underpopulated realm? Yesterday I saw Hib had 20% RP improved income.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 12:23 PM by Luluko

Saroi wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 4:57 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:27 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:10 PM
Holy crap this is unbelievable. You use your positional styles on someone that isn't melee'ing you and/or running away from you for the higher growth rate and increased damage output man. Sheesh no wonder you're struggling so badly on your Berserker.

Yep, weird how you are unable to actually say that zerks lack any positional stuns, or access to slam like BMs and mercs get. I'm sure you would give up your stuns, since zerks don't get them, right?

I am sure BM/Merc would give away their stuns for LA damage/stlyes. Also they don't have a pac healer behind who has access to single and AoE stuns. DAoC is a RvR Game and not a 1v1 Game. Zerk don't have access to easy stuns, so that is the job of other classes, like Healer or Warrior. It is not like you are the only one hitting an enemy in a group. Zerker's job is to deal damage, which he does a lot.

Yes later SB/Zerk got access to Sidestun in DAoC, but the other realms also got access to good anytimers like Meteor Shower or Side/Behind styles growth rate higher to compensate. RIght now Only the last Sidechain from CD has the same Growth Rate has the last Backchain from LA. The other attacks are all lower.

You can't have like one of the highest Growth Rate styles, best anytimer and insane damage and then expect to also have access to stuns.

Merc/BM don't have a pac healer behind them who has access to stuns. So for Merc/BM speccing into shield they are sacrificing damage for it, since they can't spec 50 weapon and CD/DW. Also instead of being able to attack right away with both weapons, you use slam which doesn't deal the greatest damage and also can be dodged/parried/blocked and especially missed, since it has 0 to hit chance.

And at last. You say any positional stuns? Hammer has a 2nd part sidestun, maybe only 2 seconds but it is enough to interrupt and kill a caster if you need it.

Those growthrates on bm/merc are fine also merc site dw combo does pretty good damage, you seem to miss here if you can stun a target easy you get in free 400-1000+ damage and dont take any damage or at least less if its a 1vs2+. If you think any bm/merc would give up slam then you are mistaken there is a reason why most bm/mercs have the small shield out most of the time and not for the looks and the first thing they do is slam. Its ridiculous that you cant even engage in a fight with a lighttanks on any class without slam without purge up or you are just dead without ip3+ up and even then they could still mow you down. Let me just give u an example I found a rr8+ blades bm yesterday with 50% hp left since he pved some mobs, I had purge up on my rr7 skald I do +damage on studded with hammer and he does - on chain with blades specc he didnt even use tw. And still got me down to 40% and I used purge too well I dont have many passives except det so I am not specced to fight those classes really but still. I would have been dead without purge thanks to slam. I dont think its asking that much for a 4-5 sec sitestun for zerk. And that hammer chain 2sec stun is useless for peeling since it will really last like 1sec thats maybe 1 attack round if use a 1h weapon worth more to just continue to snare if u want to peel instead of giving a 10sec stun immunity for nothing really. Only useful against a caster but prolly not for a zerk, for a skald which can also insta mezz to interrupt qc and kill bubble before you can interrupt a second qc yeah there it has its use but not for a zerk really.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 12:52 PM by Saroi

Luluko wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 12:23 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 4:57 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:27 PM
Yep, weird how you are unable to actually say that zerks lack any positional stuns, or access to slam like BMs and mercs get. I'm sure you would give up your stuns, since zerks don't get them, right?

I am sure BM/Merc would give away their stuns for LA damage/stlyes. Also they don't have a pac healer behind who has access to single and AoE stuns. DAoC is a RvR Game and not a 1v1 Game. Zerk don't have access to easy stuns, so that is the job of other classes, like Healer or Warrior. It is not like you are the only one hitting an enemy in a group. Zerker's job is to deal damage, which he does a lot.

Yes later SB/Zerk got access to Sidestun in DAoC, but the other realms also got access to good anytimers like Meteor Shower or Side/Behind styles growth rate higher to compensate. RIght now Only the last Sidechain from CD has the same Growth Rate has the last Backchain from LA. The other attacks are all lower.

You can't have like one of the highest Growth Rate styles, best anytimer and insane damage and then expect to also have access to stuns.

Merc/BM don't have a pac healer behind them who has access to stuns. So for Merc/BM speccing into shield they are sacrificing damage for it, since they can't spec 50 weapon and CD/DW. Also instead of being able to attack right away with both weapons, you use slam which doesn't deal the greatest damage and also can be dodged/parried/blocked and especially missed, since it has 0 to hit chance.

And at last. You say any positional stuns? Hammer has a 2nd part sidestun, maybe only 2 seconds but it is enough to interrupt and kill a caster if you need it.
Those growthrates on bm/merc are fine also merc site dw combo does pretty good damage, you seem to miss here if you can stun a target easy you get in free 400-1000+ damage and dont take any damage or at least less if its a 1vs2+. If you think any bm/merc would give up slam then you are mistaken there is a reason why most bm/mercs have the small shield out most of the time and not for the looks and the first thing they do is slam. Its ridiculous that you cant even engage in a fight with a lighttanks on any class without slam without purge up or you are just dead without ip3+ up and even then they could still mow you down. Let me just give u an example I found a rr8+ blades bm yesterday with 50% hp left since he pved some mobs, I had purge up on my rr7 skald I do +damage on studded with hammer and he does - on chain with blades specc he didnt even use tw. And still got me down to 40% and I used purge too well I dont have many passives except det so I am not specced to fight those classes really but still. I would have been dead without purge thanks to slam. I dont think its asking that much for a 4-5 sec sitestun for zerk. And that hammer chain 2sec stun is useless for peeling since it will really last like 1sec thats maybe 1 attack round if use a 1h weapon worth more to just continue to snare if u want to peel instead of giving a 10sec stun immunity for nothing really. Only useful against a caster but prolly not for a zerk, for a skald which can also insta mezz to interrupt qc and kill bubble before you can interrupt a second qc yeah there it has its use but not for a zerk really.

They are fine, yet still less than LA and they don't have a good Anytimer. Now you are talking about a 1v1 fight, how will your sidestun help you in this case? It's not like you can walk backwards and prevent the enemy to sidestrafe so he doesn't land his sidestun. So even if you have it you won't be able to use it in this case.

Like I said this game is not build for 1v1 and the job for Zerk is to deal a lot of damage and not be the one for stun. Now even if you have sidestun you will gimp your grp if your lower stun lands instead of a Slam from a warrior/thane or whatever. And that the 2 sec stun isn't much is true, I just pointed out that the other guy said they have absolutely no position stun, which is not true.

So you purged the slam from the BM, which he specced and by doing so gimping his damage. Yes there are BM/Merc who run with shield and slam, because it is helpful. Yes it is a strong tool, but for the time using slam or even speccing in Slam they are gimping their own damage for it. And it is also not so that everyone is running around with purge 4/5 to practically make slam useless. If this was with old RA I would totally agree that slam is even more powerful, with a 30 min Purge.

I have no problem with Zerk or my SB getting Sidestun. I already said I am 50 LA and I would love Sidestun. But I also feel that by doing so you would have to buff the CD/DW in damage, or give them a anytimer like on live, because their styles suck compared to LA(Well DW not so much, but CD definitely). And you can't deny that LA styles are far superior damage wise, especially having a great anytimer that helps a lot in your so called 1v1.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 1:07 PM by HtGeist

You keep asking for LA to others..why? you didnt pick up on the custom changes here increase off hand hit rate on cd and dw.
you got less of a gap in the chance to hit with offhand,usefull styles snares and sidestuns and get to not go thru life with gimped main hand dmg,and offhand when not evaded/parried/blocked hitting like a pool noodle...doublefrost aint worth that .
specially not for merc with 50 frontal he can back with side style for the jerking combatants.
and ontop of it..BM and Merc can have slam without sacrificing much dmg setup up their own positional gankfest.
And vendo/gerbil...no defense while its active and only stuns are from evade or parry is hammer...so extreemly situational compared to BM 3rd leg or merc sand in the eye.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 1:31 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:27 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:10 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Tue 23 Apr 2019 8:42 PM
Which POSITIONAL stun does the zerk use against a non melee class? God you are such a ewaste of time replying to.

Holy crap this is unbelievable. You use your positional styles on someone that isn't melee'ing you and/or running away from you for the higher growth rate and increased damage output man. Sheesh no wonder you're struggling so badly on your Berserker.

Yep, weird how you are unable to actually say that zerks lack any positional stuns, or access to slam like BMs and mercs get. I'm sure you would give up your stuns, since zerks don't get them, right?

Dude, you're certified double digit IQ. I've stated in at least 5-6 different posts that I would have no problems with berserkers and shadow blades earning a side stun in LA. I also stated that by no means do they "need" it to perform well. I don't run slam on my Merc, I'd have absolutely 0 issues with merc/bm losing slam because I played the classes after hybrid slam was altered.

You literally have no clue how to play your class effectively. What is your berserkers name? I'm literally asking so I can check your toon out on the herald.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 1:38 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 12:23 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 4:57 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:27 PM
Yep, weird how you are unable to actually say that zerks lack any positional stuns, or access to slam like BMs and mercs get. I'm sure you would give up your stuns, since zerks don't get them, right?

I am sure BM/Merc would give away their stuns for LA damage/stlyes. Also they don't have a pac healer behind who has access to single and AoE stuns. DAoC is a RvR Game and not a 1v1 Game. Zerk don't have access to easy stuns, so that is the job of other classes, like Healer or Warrior. It is not like you are the only one hitting an enemy in a group. Zerker's job is to deal damage, which he does a lot.

Yes later SB/Zerk got access to Sidestun in DAoC, but the other realms also got access to good anytimers like Meteor Shower or Side/Behind styles growth rate higher to compensate. RIght now Only the last Sidechain from CD has the same Growth Rate has the last Backchain from LA. The other attacks are all lower.

You can't have like one of the highest Growth Rate styles, best anytimer and insane damage and then expect to also have access to stuns.

Merc/BM don't have a pac healer behind them who has access to stuns. So for Merc/BM speccing into shield they are sacrificing damage for it, since they can't spec 50 weapon and CD/DW. Also instead of being able to attack right away with both weapons, you use slam which doesn't deal the greatest damage and also can be dodged/parried/blocked and especially missed, since it has 0 to hit chance.

And at last. You say any positional stuns? Hammer has a 2nd part sidestun, maybe only 2 seconds but it is enough to interrupt and kill a caster if you need it.
Those growthrates on bm/merc are fine also merc site dw combo does pretty good damage, you seem to miss here if you can stun a target easy you get in free 400-1000+ damage and dont take any damage or at least less if its a 1vs2+. If you think any bm/merc would give up slam then you are mistaken there is a reason why most bm/mercs have the small shield out most of the time and not for the looks and the first thing they do is slam. Its ridiculous that you cant even engage in a fight with a lighttanks on any class without slam without purge up or you are just dead without ip3+ up and even then they could still mow you down. Let me just give u an example I found a rr8+ blades bm yesterday with 50% hp left since he pved some mobs, I had purge up on my rr7 skald I do +damage on studded with hammer and he does - on chain with blades specc he didnt even use tw. And still got me down to 40% and I used purge too well I dont have many passives except det so I am not specced to fight those classes really but still. I would have been dead without purge thanks to slam. I dont think its asking that much for a 4-5 sec sitestun for zerk. And that hammer chain 2sec stun is useless for peeling since it will really last like 1sec thats maybe 1 attack round if use a 1h weapon worth more to just continue to snare if u want to peel instead of giving a 10sec stun immunity for nothing really. Only useful against a caster but prolly not for a zerk, for a skald which can also insta mezz to interrupt qc and kill bubble before you can interrupt a second qc yeah there it has its use but not for a zerk really.

Wait... you're attempting to make a point that you almost died to a melee dps specialist on a skald. You attempted to go toe-to-toe, with a Light Tank, whose entire archtype is centered around maximizing melee dps capability, on a hybrid tank and you're trying to make a point that he got you to 40% health...

You know you could've just DD'd him from range and you never would've been hit right?

Thu 25 Apr 2019 7:19 PM by Luluko

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 1:38 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 12:23 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 4:57 AM
I am sure BM/Merc would give away their stuns for LA damage/stlyes. Also they don't have a pac healer behind who has access to single and AoE stuns. DAoC is a RvR Game and not a 1v1 Game. Zerk don't have access to easy stuns, so that is the job of other classes, like Healer or Warrior. It is not like you are the only one hitting an enemy in a group. Zerker's job is to deal damage, which he does a lot.

Yes later SB/Zerk got access to Sidestun in DAoC, but the other realms also got access to good anytimers like Meteor Shower or Side/Behind styles growth rate higher to compensate. RIght now Only the last Sidechain from CD has the same Growth Rate has the last Backchain from LA. The other attacks are all lower.

You can't have like one of the highest Growth Rate styles, best anytimer and insane damage and then expect to also have access to stuns.

Merc/BM don't have a pac healer behind them who has access to stuns. So for Merc/BM speccing into shield they are sacrificing damage for it, since they can't spec 50 weapon and CD/DW. Also instead of being able to attack right away with both weapons, you use slam which doesn't deal the greatest damage and also can be dodged/parried/blocked and especially missed, since it has 0 to hit chance.

And at last. You say any positional stuns? Hammer has a 2nd part sidestun, maybe only 2 seconds but it is enough to interrupt and kill a caster if you need it.
Those growthrates on bm/merc are fine also merc site dw combo does pretty good damage, you seem to miss here if you can stun a target easy you get in free 400-1000+ damage and dont take any damage or at least less if its a 1vs2+. If you think any bm/merc would give up slam then you are mistaken there is a reason why most bm/mercs have the small shield out most of the time and not for the looks and the first thing they do is slam. Its ridiculous that you cant even engage in a fight with a lighttanks on any class without slam without purge up or you are just dead without ip3+ up and even then they could still mow you down. Let me just give u an example I found a rr8+ blades bm yesterday with 50% hp left since he pved some mobs, I had purge up on my rr7 skald I do +damage on studded with hammer and he does - on chain with blades specc he didnt even use tw. And still got me down to 40% and I used purge too well I dont have many passives except det so I am not specced to fight those classes really but still. I would have been dead without purge thanks to slam. I dont think its asking that much for a 4-5 sec sitestun for zerk. And that hammer chain 2sec stun is useless for peeling since it will really last like 1sec thats maybe 1 attack round if use a 1h weapon worth more to just continue to snare if u want to peel instead of giving a 10sec stun immunity for nothing really. Only useful against a caster but prolly not for a zerk, for a skald which can also insta mezz to interrupt qc and kill bubble before you can interrupt a second qc yeah there it has its use but not for a zerk really.

Wait... you're attempting to make a point that you almost died to a melee dps specialist on a skald. You attempted to go toe-to-toe, with a Light Tank, whose entire archtype is centered around maximizing melee dps capability, on a hybrid tank and you're trying to make a point that he got you to 40% health...

You know you could've just DD'd him from range and you never would've been hit right?

last time I tried that he used los pretty clever that I would have need to come to close to avoid slam again and it would take too long that I would lose my stun immunity again and he used his heal pot and prlly also the legion charge thats like 1500 hps I need to do with dds which do maybe 350 together if they arent getting resistet and you can prolly do the math here. Also nothing would have stoped him from running into aggro mobs and be worth even less rps so I didnt kite because it wasnt needed in this case. I am just pointing out with that example how ridiculous good bm damage is even if he does -damage and hits on the best absorb armor from mid. I am not complaining that I cant kill all bms, I am not specced for that and even if I was it would prlly still be 50/50 everytime and I need to hope he doesnt have RA5 and is pierce then no chance at all.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 7:29 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Luluko wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 7:19 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 1:38 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 12:23 PM
Those growthrates on bm/merc are fine also merc site dw combo does pretty good damage, you seem to miss here if you can stun a target easy you get in free 400-1000+ damage and dont take any damage or at least less if its a 1vs2+. If you think any bm/merc would give up slam then you are mistaken there is a reason why most bm/mercs have the small shield out most of the time and not for the looks and the first thing they do is slam. Its ridiculous that you cant even engage in a fight with a lighttanks on any class without slam without purge up or you are just dead without ip3+ up and even then they could still mow you down. Let me just give u an example I found a rr8+ blades bm yesterday with 50% hp left since he pved some mobs, I had purge up on my rr7 skald I do +damage on studded with hammer and he does - on chain with blades specc he didnt even use tw. And still got me down to 40% and I used purge too well I dont have many passives except det so I am not specced to fight those classes really but still. I would have been dead without purge thanks to slam. I dont think its asking that much for a 4-5 sec sitestun for zerk. And that hammer chain 2sec stun is useless for peeling since it will really last like 1sec thats maybe 1 attack round if use a 1h weapon worth more to just continue to snare if u want to peel instead of giving a 10sec stun immunity for nothing really. Only useful against a caster but prolly not for a zerk, for a skald which can also insta mezz to interrupt qc and kill bubble before you can interrupt a second qc yeah there it has its use but not for a zerk really.

Wait... you're attempting to make a point that you almost died to a melee dps specialist on a skald. You attempted to go toe-to-toe, with a Light Tank, whose entire archtype is centered around maximizing melee dps capability, on a hybrid tank and you're trying to make a point that he got you to 40% health...

You know you could've just DD'd him from range and you never would've been hit right?
last time I tried that he used los pretty clever that I would have need to come to close to avoid slam again and it would take too long that I would lose my stun immunity again and he used his heal pot and prlly also the legion charge thats like 1500 hps I need to do with dds which do maybe 350 together if they arent getting resistet and you can prolly do the math here. Also nothing would have stoped him from running into aggro mobs and be worth even less rps so I didnt kite because it wasnt needed in this case. I am just pointing out with that example how ridiculous good bm damage is even if he does -damage and hits on the best absorb armor from mid. I am not complaining that I cant kill all bms, I am not specced for that and even if I was it would prlly still be 50/50 everytime and I need to hope he doesnt have RA5 and is pierce then no chance at all.

Yeah, it should be ridiculously good, that's all Light Tanks have going for em

.

That being said. Reduce slam for hybrids - implement side stun for berserkers and mercenaries and call it a day.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 8:37 PM by Dariussdars

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 1:31 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:27 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:10 PM
Holy crap this is unbelievable. You use your positional styles on someone that isn't melee'ing you and/or running away from you for the higher growth rate and increased damage output man. Sheesh no wonder you're struggling so badly on your Berserker.

Yep, weird how you are unable to actually say that zerks lack any positional stuns, or access to slam like BMs and mercs get. I'm sure you would give up your stuns, since zerks don't get them, right?

Dude, you're certified double digit IQ. I've stated in at least 5-6 different posts that I would have no problems with berserkers and shadow blades earning a side stun in LA. I also stated that by no means do they "need" it to perform well. I don't run slam on my Merc, I'd have absolutely 0 issues with merc/bm losing slam because I played the classes after hybrid slam was altered.

You literally have no clue how to play your class effectively. What is your berserkers name? I'm literally asking so I can check your toon out on the herald.

Of course zerks don't need a stun like the other 2 realms light tanks have. Idiot.

Thu 25 Apr 2019 8:40 PM by Dariussdars

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 11:34 AM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:27 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 6:10 PM
Holy crap this is unbelievable. You use your positional styles on someone that isn't melee'ing you and/or running away from you for the higher growth rate and increased damage output man. Sheesh no wonder you're struggling so badly on your Berserker.

Yep, weird how you are unable to actually say that zerks lack any positional stuns, or access to slam like BMs and mercs get. I'm sure you would give up your stuns, since zerks don't get them, right?

Ok, give zerkers side stun and slam, but than give vendo and LA to bm and merc, and celerity too.

I read someone here bragging about RP earning differences: do this people knows about RP bonuses for underpopulated realm? Yesterday I saw Hib had 20% RP improved income.

So you want to trade 2 skills that every realm has for one that only Mid has? Trade vendo for triple wield or dirty tricks, if you want to trade for a class only skill.

Fri 26 Apr 2019 3:28 AM by kmark101

Saroi wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 12:52 PM
But I also feel that by doing so you would have to buff the CD/DW in damage, or give them a anytimer like on live, because their styles suck compared to LA(Well DW not so much, but CD definitely). And you can't deny that LA styles are far superior damage wise, especially having a great anytimer that helps a lot in your so called 1v1.

Plase read my post in one of earlier pages of this thread and realize that zerk's overall dps is 8.25% LOWER than bm/merc due to how miss rates are calculated on this server. Same post contains a style damage comparison where you can see that it's pretty even, and the "great anytimer" is marginally better, but due to high miss rates it actually does less damage than their counterparts.

Fri 26 Apr 2019 6:11 AM by Haruspex

Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 7:29 PM
Luluko wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 7:19 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 1:38 PM
Wait... you're attempting to make a point that you almost died to a melee dps specialist on a skald. You attempted to go toe-to-toe, with a Light Tank, whose entire archtype is centered around maximizing melee dps capability, on a hybrid tank and you're trying to make a point that he got you to 40% health...

You know you could've just DD'd him from range and you never would've been hit right?
last time I tried that he used los pretty clever that I would have need to come to close to avoid slam again and it would take too long that I would lose my stun immunity again and he used his heal pot and prlly also the legion charge thats like 1500 hps I need to do with dds which do maybe 350 together if they arent getting resistet and you can prolly do the math here. Also nothing would have stoped him from running into aggro mobs and be worth even less rps so I didnt kite because it wasnt needed in this case. I am just pointing out with that example how ridiculous good bm damage is even if he does -damage and hits on the best absorb armor from mid. I am not complaining that I cant kill all bms, I am not specced for that and even if I was it would prlly still be 50/50 everytime and I need to hope he doesnt have RA5 and is pierce then no chance at all.

Yeah, it should be ridiculously good, that's all Light Tanks have going for em .

That being said. Reduce slam for hybrids - implement side stun for berserkers and mercenaries and call it a day.

No do not take 9aec slam from hybrids because then you fuck hybrids like thane and so forth without giving them any of the things they got to compensate. Just give Petra e the side stun. Period

Fri 26 Apr 2019 7:53 AM by Kampfar

Who is Petra? And why sidestun only for her?

Fri 26 Apr 2019 9:59 AM by Saroi

kmark101 wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Apr 2019 3:28 AM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 12:52 PM
But I also feel that by doing so you would have to buff the CD/DW in damage, or give them a anytimer like on live, because their styles suck compared to LA(Well DW not so much, but CD definitely). And you can't deny that LA styles are far superior damage wise, especially having a great anytimer that helps a lot in your so called 1v1.

Plase read my post in one of earlier pages of this thread and realize that zerk's overall dps is 8.25% LOWER than bm/merc due to how miss rates are calculated on this server. Same post contains a style damage comparison where you can see that it's pretty even, and the "great anytimer" is marginally better, but due to high miss rates it actually does less damage than their counterparts.

What should I realize? That you are writing Bullshit?

You are talking about low hit rate only. Now that may occur to Doublefrost, but the 2nd part of the Backchain from LA has a High hit bonus, while the 2nd part of Sidechain from CD only has a medium hit bonus. So LA is more likely to hit. Not to mention that there is DD cold Proc that does like 100-130 damage extra damage.

Now you are talking duo high miss rate, Doublefrost is weaker than counterparts. If you check in a fight 1v1, the anytimer from BM has a low hit rate too, so he is likely to miss. On top of that, the anytimer from CD gives a medium defense penalty, which means if you attack the BM with a low hit style, you will not miss him thanks to that. Practically a 10% extra Bonus to hit. Also that anytimer has a Growth Rate of 0,49. While Doublefrost has 0,75. Now if a BM misses the followup on the Anytimer, which has a Growth Rate of 0,81(WOW 0,06 more than Doublefrost!) and low to hit rate, he will lose a lot of damage because of that.

So both have the same hit Rate on Anytimer , except LA has a better Hit Rate on their Chain. So I really don't see how thanks to miss rate BM should be in any favour, because they are like to miss the same or BM even more.

Now if you check on Merc. 50 is kinda an anytimer (atleast 1v1) with a medium to hit, higher growth rate but also medium defense penalty And the 2part side combo, the first attack (Flank) has 0 to hit bonus, so it is even more likely to miss. While the Back chain has medium to high hit rate, the growth Rate is lower Starting by 0,69 and highest at 0,93. So it does less damage than the 2part side chain.

Fri 26 Apr 2019 1:07 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 8:37 PM
Amp_Phetamine wrote: ↑
Thu 25 Apr 2019 1:31 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Apr 2019 8:27 PM
Yep, weird how you are unable to actually say that zerks lack any positional stuns, or access to slam like BMs and mercs get. I'm sure you would give up your stuns, since zerks don't get them, right?

Dude, you're certified double digit IQ. I've stated in at least 5-6 different posts that I would have no problems with berserkers and shadow blades earning a side stun in LA. I also stated that by no means do they "need" it to perform well. I don't run slam on my Merc, I'd have absolutely 0 issues with merc/bm losing slam because I played the classes after hybrid slam was altered.

You literally have no clue how to play your class effectively. What is your berserkers name? I'm literally asking so I can check your toon out on the herald.

Of course zerks don't need a stun like the other 2 realms light tanks have. Idiot.

If you're absolutely dependent on a one part stun to perform well, you probably aren't and won't be performing well in the future. What is your berserkers name?

Fri 26 Apr 2019 5:02 PM by kmark101

Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Apr 2019 9:59 AM
What should I realize? That you are writing Bullshit?

You are talking about low hit rate only. Now that may occur to Doublefrost, but the 2nd part of the Backchain from LA has a High hit bonus, while the 2nd part of Sidechain from CD only has a medium hit bonus. So LA is more likely to hit. Not to mention that there is DD cold Proc that does like 100-130 damage extra damage.

Now you are talking duo high miss rate, Doublefrost is weaker than counterparts. If you check in a fight 1v1, the anytimer from BM has a low hit rate too, so he is likely to miss. On top of that, the anytimer from CD gives a medium defense penalty, which means if you attack the BM with a low hit style, you will not miss him thanks to that. Practically a 10% extra Bonus to hit. Also that anytimer has a Growth Rate of 0,49. While Doublefrost has 0,75. Now if a BM misses the followup on the Anytimer, which has a Growth Rate of 0,81(WOW 0,06 more than Doublefrost!) and low to hit rate, he will lose a lot of damage because of that.

So both have the same hit Rate on Anytimer , except LA has a better Hit Rate on their Chain. So I really don't see how thanks to miss rate BM should be in any favour, because they are like to miss the same or BM even more.

Now if you check on Merc. 50 is kinda an anytimer (atleast 1v1) with a medium to hit, higher growth rate but also medium defense penalty And the 2part side combo, the first attack (Flank) has 0 to hit bonus, so it is even more likely to miss. While the Back chain has medium to high hit rate, the growth Rate is lower Starting by 0,69 and highest at 0,93. So it does less damage than the 2part side chain.

Nice approach, except you are wrong.

Let me correct you, maybe you will understand this time: it's not the style damage that makes any difference, but the whole process how LA and CD/DW works: LA mainhand hits with 75% damage, while CD/DW hits with 100% damage, while offhand swings are unstyled and have the general higher miss rate %.

Since CD/DW's have bigger portion of their damage on their mainhand (as LA always swings, but the overall damage output of LA/CD/DW is exactly the same), they are compensated better for their mechanics the higher the general miss rates are. The result is that LA users are doing less damage because when they have +hitroll to land a hit, that is only for their 75% damage mainhand. Let me translate it in short: the mechanics have identical results, except the custom miss rates of the server change it in CD/DW favor and the overall end result is 8.25% less damage for LA users.

I can't explain this more clear, hope you understand.

Fri 26 Apr 2019 5:40 PM by Saroi

kmark101 wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Apr 2019 5:02 PM
Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 26 Apr 2019 9:59 AM
What should I realize? That you are writing Bullshit?

You are talking about low hit rate only. Now that may occur to Doublefrost, but the 2nd part of the Backchain from LA has a High hit bonus, while the 2nd part of Sidechain from CD only has a medium hit bonus. So LA is more likely to hit. Not to mention that there is DD cold Proc that does like 100-130 damage extra damage.

Now you are talking duo high miss rate, Doublefrost is weaker than counterparts. If you check in a fight 1v1, the anytimer from BM has a low hit rate too, so he is likely to miss. On top of that, the anytimer from CD gives a medium defense penalty, which means if you attack the BM with a low hit style, you will not miss him thanks to that. Practically a 10% extra Bonus to hit. Also that anytimer has a Growth Rate of 0,49. While Doublefrost has 0,75. Now if a BM misses the followup on the Anytimer, which has a Growth Rate of 0,81(WOW 0,06 more than Doublefrost!) and low to hit rate, he will lose a lot of damage because of that.

So both have the same hit Rate on Anytimer , except LA has a better Hit Rate on their Chain. So I really don't see how thanks to miss rate BM should be in any favour, because they are like to miss the same or BM even more.

Now if you check on Merc. 50 is kinda an anytimer (atleast 1v1) with a medium to hit, higher growth rate but also medium defense penalty And the 2part side combo, the first attack (Flank) has 0 to hit bonus, so it is even more likely to miss. While the Back chain has medium to high hit rate, the growth Rate is lower Starting by 0,69 and highest at 0,93. So it does less damage than the 2part side chain.

Nice approach, except you are wrong.

Let me correct you, maybe you will understand this time: it's not the style damage that makes any difference, but the whole process how LA and CD/DW works: LA mainhand hits with 75% damage, while CD/DW hits with 100% damage, while offhand swings are unstyled and have the general higher miss rate %.

Since CD/DW's have bigger portion of their damage on their mainhand (as LA always swings, but the overall damage output of LA/CD/DW is exactly the same), they are compensated better for their mechanics the higher the general miss rates are. The result is that LA users are doing less damage because when they have +hitroll to land a hit, that is only for their 75% damage mainhand. Let me translate it in short: the mechanics have identical results, except the custom miss rates of the server change it in CD/DW favor and the overall end result is 8.25% less damage for LA users.

I can't explain this more clear, hope you understand.

On this server, the Mainhand LA starts with 77.3% instead of the usual 62.5% damage and while you spec into LA you increase your Mainhand and Offhand damage. So I don't know where you get that Mainhand does 75% of normal damage, because it is like I said a lot higher.

And the custom miss rates do not favour CD/DW because like I already said, the LA styles have better to hit bonus than CD/DW. So if you backchain someone with Medium, high and high bonus, instead of medium, medium, high(3 part CD Sidechain) or like merc who gets 0 bonus from sidestyle.

Besides that, since LA always hits with Offhand you have a faster attack speed with a faster offhand, because your attackspeed is calculated by Mainhand and Offhand speed. BM/Merc only get that when they hit with both weapons, otherwise the next attack swing is calculated from the Mainhand, which is usually 4.2 or even 4.4 here.