Attn. New Players

Started 12 May 2021
by weaverman78
in RvR
If you are joining this game for the first time I have some advice for you. If you want to play easy mode, play Hibernia, extremely over powered in keep defense/siege; They have A pet class that summons shrooms that act like turrets, insanely long range rangers. Albion I would say is normal mode. If you want a harder difficulty, go Midgard, trust me you will learn very quickly why it's hard to play this realm.
Wed 12 May 2021 6:18 AM by WildWilbur
Count to four inhale, count to four exhale. (M. Poppins)
Wed 12 May 2021 6:25 AM by Sepplord
Rangers have longer range than scouts?

i mean, i can see where the complaints are coming from, but it shows that they are emotionally driven, and not fact based
Wed 12 May 2021 6:28 PM by Noashakra
Alb is the easy realm dude, people are delusional about hibernia.
Body assist is the most OP 8man comp.

What's worst than shrooms in siege? Gtaoe. And alb is the worst with the wizard swiss knife.

Rangers have longer range than scouts?

i mean, i can see where the complaints are coming from, but it shows that they are emotionally driven, and not fact based

2100 hunter 2200 ranger 2300 scout.
Thu 13 May 2021 6:31 PM by Astaa
Were you one of the Albs that let my void freecast from the battlements at Beno?

I ran out of mana twice, was crazy.
Thu 13 May 2021 7:17 PM by Hattrick
Astaa wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 6:31 PM
Were you one of the Albs that let my void freecast from the battlements at Beno?

I ran out of mana twice, was crazy.

Why did you change your sig?
Thu 13 May 2021 7:18 PM by Astaa
It was a bit too confrontational.

AHK users are still covering something though
Thu 13 May 2021 7:21 PM by Hattrick
Astaa wrote: ↑
Thu 13 May 2021 7:18 PM
It was a bit too confrontational.

AHK users are still covering something though

Nah, you were spot on brother. I'm guessing it wasn't your choice to change it
Wed 2 Jun 2021 4:09 AM by Leafus
Let’s revisit this. For the health of the server. This has become and really has always been a casters game. Hib has the best of the best casters and keep defenders. Their mentys dot everyone (how else to get to RR12 via kill holes?). They’re steamrolling the server via NUMBERS too. So what’s a dev to do? Penalize the higher numbered Zerg for balance. If you out number another Zerg in a given area, you reap 0.75 RP vs 1.25 for the lesser Zerg. Or should people just quit in disgust and you hibs can own every keep in every realm and say you “won DAOC”. That would be fun? You’re destroying this server and people join higher number realm because hey 10000 people beating up on 100 is fun. It’s fun to win no matter the odds. And with better casters too.
Wed 2 Jun 2021 5:07 AM by ExcretusMaximus
Leafus wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jun 2021 4:09 AM
Hib has the best of the best casters

LOL - Just ... no.

They have more people, yes. However, the only Hibernian caster that is better than those in Albion is the Eldritch, and most would say that they're still not as strong as Sorcerers.
Wed 2 Jun 2021 6:14 AM by Sepplord
i also think that albion casters are stronger relatively, and that stun nuke isn't the big deal people make out of it, in general

But in a siege that perspective could shift. I don't have much siege experience since it isn't my playstyle, but whenever i participated it boiled down to people bobbing in/out of LOS, porting in/out at doors getting potshots onto an enemy and dissapearing into safety
Combine that with a generally more casual approach most zerg-players have and having a stun on so many players + those players main goal already being rangeddmg. Other realms CAN theoretically do the same, but they have to coordinate for that, and while "easy" it requires extra steps (or selfless actions, aka cleric/healer will stun but someone else gets to nuke the target)
This won't/can't be reasonably changed, at least i wouldn't have an idea how. Stun isn't itself too strong, nor is it an issue in any other field of gameplay.

In the end i believe the reliability of a hibzerg being avaialable was the biggest driver of making people over time gradually go hibernia if they want to zerg
Wed 2 Jun 2021 7:26 AM by Noashakra
Leafus wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Jun 2021 4:09 AM
Let’s revisit this. For the health of the server. This has become and really has always been a casters game. Hib has the best of the best casters and keep defenders. Their mentys dot everyone (how else to get to RR12 via kill holes?). They’re steamrolling the server via NUMBERS too. So what’s a dev to do? Penalize the higher numbered Zerg for balance. If you out number another Zerg in a given area, you reap 0.75 RP vs 1.25 for the lesser Zerg. Or should people just quit in disgust and you hibs can own every keep in every realm and say you “won DAOC”. That would be fun? You’re destroying this server and people join higher number realm because hey 10000 people beating up on 100 is fun. It’s fun to win no matter the odds. And with better casters too.

The GvG list proves you wrong.
Alb has the best casters. 2 caba 2 sorc = 4 pets aerupt amnesia aemez 2 NS debuffs (resist, stats) disease etc possibility to moc drain to survive a tank etc etc.
Wed 2 Jun 2021 8:41 AM by Adwaenyth
What Hib has in comparison to Alb or Mid in a keep fight is a ****load of PBAoE casters on top of the ranged casts that are also present in the Alb and Mid zergs. If you bunch all Albs or Mids into a corner tower of a keep with sups stacked on everything else, you just need to run in, PBAoE, QC PBAoE and the whole Zerg in there disintegrates because they have no more room to maneuver. I've seen it happen with as little as 2-3 ench/elds doing just that and it being entirely devastating on them.

So once the RA drain and Mana drain sets in, that's when you shine as PBAoE and that's when you break Alb or Mid zergs with it.

Also Hib zergs consist usually of the classes used to level up as well. Any hib level group has Animists, Ench/Elds, Mentas, Druids, Wardens or Bards. That is the core of any zerg RvR Hib group as well. So there just is a ton of those always present in a Hib zerg.
Wed 2 Jun 2021 8:57 AM by inoeth
midgard is def the easy mode realm, so much instants, long back snare, good anytimers, OP svg
Thu 3 Jun 2021 12:36 PM by Noashakra
Ah yeah the zerg vs zerg, it's where the skill shines
Let's forget the gtae king is albion with the wiz, that caby can aedot and NS, that the sorc is the best utility mage of the game.
Stop being biased.
Thu 3 Jun 2021 8:59 PM by Svekt
Almost all of my Albion casters are higher RR than any of my hib casters.

Utility and best casters goes strictly to Albion. You just can’t top a sorc and cab duo, the combination of the debuff and self healing of the lifetap that’s being debuffed is insane.

Bottom line it’s the community and players. Hibs work together and mobilize when their realm is on fire. Furthermore at almost every single time slot they have a BG leader either doing something or monitoring action in the frontier until they are needed. This is absent in both Albion and Midgard.

The bottom line is that hibs attract more players because there is always something to plug into. Everything starts with an active BG. When there is an active BG that means there are people trying to get the Zerg that can be killed in transit. Ie a tank or caster joins a BG group and has to make his/her way to docks gives the solo player another person to kill. Groups that break off to check a burning tower or Intell give you another chance at an 8v8 even if it’s not gvg quality.

The real question is are you hear because you’re mad that hib is successful or are you here because your realm is not successful.

To be clear: hib is not my realm. I identify and play with all three realms. If I had a home it would be Midgard but I am unwilling to call Midgard on this server a home until they stop the internal drama and name calling. Albion just needs a leader and their players will follow. Mid needs a cleanse and some of the big guilds need to be broken up into smaller guilds mostly for claiming purposes. Can’t claim keeps and towers if your entire player base is in two guilds... midnight sun and odins guard. Mid also needs to stop making excuses and accusations of the other two realms working together, it’s a three realm game it was intended that someone would always be getting attacked. I have not only been apart of mids domination of other realms I’ve also documented it on my YouTube channel. It’s not about balance it’s about the community in each realm and how they chose to respond when needed. Bottom line is hibs work together best based on region intel and BG come, Albion is second best at this, and Midgard is the worst(there is almost never any intel in region)

Furthermore this is largely based on the fact that for many many years Hibernia was the underdog realm on many servers, they were forced into developing a community that works together in order to survive as a realm.

Don’t believe this post? Play all three realms and see for youserlf.
Thu 3 Jun 2021 9:28 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Svekt wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Jun 2021 8:59 PM
I am unwilling to call Midgard on this server a home until they stop the internal drama and name calling.

Jeez, they're still at it?

I took a break in November 2019 and when I came back in February 2020 the realm had split apart completely, mostly into three factions: Aegis alliance, HoV alliance, and the Germans. It's been more than a year and they still haven't gotten their shit together?
Thu 3 Jun 2021 11:02 PM by stewbeedoo
Unfortunately the Devs can't cure player stupidity.
Fri 4 Jun 2021 6:51 AM by Adwaenyth
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Jun 2021 9:28 PM
Svekt wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Jun 2021 8:59 PM
I am unwilling to call Midgard on this server a home until they stop the internal drama and name calling.

Jeez, they're still at it?

I took a break in November 2019 and when I came back in February 2020 the realm had split apart completely, mostly into three factions: Aegis alliance, HoV alliance, and the Germans. It's been more than a year and they still haven't gotten their shit together?

Players seem to be hellbent on hating each other... "You do not play as I say, you can go to hell and take half of the realm with you" seems to be the motto in many many cases.
Fri 4 Jun 2021 6:53 AM by Astaa
I thought Pilz went Alb? Surely all their leadership problems have been solved?

That being said, this is what happens when you have such a short switch timer and no loyalty bonus, people tour the realms with the relics.
Fri 4 Jun 2021 7:59 AM by Adwaenyth
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Jun 2021 6:53 AM
I thought Pilz went Alb? Surely all their leadership problems have been solved?

He did. Let's better not talk about the drama involved... just mention burning bridges might not always be such a good idea...

Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Jun 2021 6:53 AM
That being said, this is what happens when you have such a short switch timer and no loyalty bonus, people tour the realms with the relics.

The problem with relic tourism is about as new as DAoC itself... A lot of people just tend to go the easiest way possible and there is nothing you can do about that. Any mitigation, any protection is just a medicore way of preventing that. You can't change human nature, and enforcing it for some is not possible without affecting all other players as well. So you have to be careful about your design in that regard. Then again, if you are careful and do not want to hassle players too much, those bent on finding the easiest way can get very ... creative ... in just circuumventing whatever mechanic you thought about.
Sun 6 Jun 2021 3:48 AM by Tyrlaan
Astaa wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Jun 2021 6:53 AM
I thought Pilz went Alb? Surely all their leadership problems have been solved?

That being said, this is what happens when you have such a short switch timer and no loyalty bonus, people tour the realms with the relics.

Or maybe the realm which has the easiest time to get and defend relics has them most of the time. And the players then too.

I haven´t seen Pilz have much of an impact when running the Alb BG. Not even when trying to team with the Mid BG. Hib was maybe down to 2 relics shortly and got a 3rd again the next day. Even if Hib actually loses one of their own, it´s not for long until they get it back - and an enemy relic too.

Maybe it isn´t the super coordination, being better players, having a BG for almost 24/7 or whatever people claim why Hib has the upper hand (as if other realm players were somehow stupid or just newbs or whatever). Maybe they get (or try to paint) the causality wrong - Hib can defend at any time, even at low(er) population times (where a FG or a couple Rangers can make a difference) or when having lower population (Hib can defend relics even with 2 enemy BGs roaming Hib and a double-digit RP bonus from /u). Maybe it just works with whoever leads. That said, Reix is a great leader, Smap not so much (while dedicated, he isn´t that bright from what I can tell). But it works with whomever.

Just trying to bust the denialism every one of these threads has... trying to dismiss the most obvious. Of course stun nukes are just one reason since they can clear and control walls and roofs much better than not having a stun to prevent diving out of LoS. That´s decimating an enemy force (or softening them for a push) as quickly as a couple Rangers do. Everybody knows how effective it is when using it and how frustrating when on the receiving end. But people still deny it is, or paper-DAoC-tell people how to try to counter it or how they should look for somebody else to stun for them? Really? In this paper DAoC version archers might build a group with buffs - in reality in one realm you just move your Ranger to a keep to defend (and can do so even if you don´t wanna group) in another you´d have to build. What´s more likely? Same with the misbalance in AoEs and heals between realms (Alb and Mid BGs are usually much more desperate for heals, Hib has a fair share of their 3 Naturalists and Mentalists).

In reality the recent population shift is people voting with their feet after the bias exhibited with the recent "balance changes". Many of these changes seem to completely ignore the status quo balance (or misbalance in certain aspects of RvR) and get odd explanations for why they are made.
Sun 6 Jun 2021 10:35 AM by twinsonian
Phoenix is a healing and casting heavy game. Melee is secondary. Mid is melee heavy.

HEALING:
Hibernia has 4 classes that can heal (You can try to count enchanters with their healing pet):
Druid, Warden, Bard, Ment

Alb has 2 (You can try to count cab life transfer or paladin chant and life shout).
Cleric and Friar. It is hard to count paladins since no one plays one because the chant system requires a computer program to even play the class.

Mid has 2 (You can try to count spirit master life transfer).
Healer and Shaman. Both classes have a wide range on specs so the zerg feels like it always lacks heals.

HIB CASTER BALANCE:
All three realms received base nukes missing in one of their lines. Det is a bandaid RA now when the real problem was having CC that lasts for over a minute in the first place (hello sorcs). We wont talk about the new style changes coming yet. The thread as of writing this has 43 pages of good and bad points about balance. Disease and nearsight last way too long and the bandaid fix for cure nearsight doesnt fit well with mid.

Hib base line ranged stun against non-det classes is a death sentence if purge is down. No other class except healer and cleric can provide this with the exception of maybe the air theurg? I know everyone is tired of reading and seeing this but that doesnt mean it still isnt a thing. Baseline stun was a stupid implementation. OP in many situations and awful as CC in general. Roots and Mez last for upwards of a minute while stun is 9 seconds. In 8 man even, that isnt reliable CC especially since everything has det and you want your melee stunning anyway, The other two realms got root on the casters, unfortunately the naturey classes got root in hib so it seems like they ran out of ideas and thought stun was the right solution. Even still -- it provides the lulz in a zerg and easy mode kills so of course it is appealing for many players.

Enchanters - a speed and pet summoning class, were given base disease and root and still have perma snare and a pet demez. They can debuff their own damage and pbaoe if specd mana or they can debuff str/dex/melee dmg 20% and swing speed 18%+ if specd light combined with PD and toughness. They are speedy little nightmares now.

Ments were given nearsight in the mana line. One spec line to get all of the utility of the class because they only need enough points in ment to get cure mez and decent heals and mez.

Elds are just plain solid. They feel much more solid than their counterparts in the other realms with CC and utility.
Sun 6 Jun 2021 4:40 PM by ExcretusMaximus
twinsonian wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Jun 2021 10:35 AM
the real problem was having CC that lasts for over a minute in the first place (hello sorcs).

Every single realm has CC that lasts over a minute.

If you're going to complain about CC length, fine, but don't single out one class on one realm when the other two realms have the same effect.
Sun 6 Jun 2021 5:34 PM by Noashakra
Hib base line ranged stun against non-det classes is a death sentence if purge is down. No other class except healer and cleric can provide this with the exception of maybe the air theurg? I
Don't worry, my ministrel use its istun in 8vs8 or 8vsX when someone calls an assist. At the same time as rupting 2 other caster who also have to battle the 5 pets.
Root on caster is way better than casted stun to kite effectively, for pets and tanks, especially coupled with Ichor.
Again, a 100% biased response...

Hib mages are so OP that nobody plays them in GvG. You have only one set-up really viable and it's the animist/mentalist comp, because of the combo mentalist debuff/tanglers (because you know, they root)...
Sun 6 Jun 2021 9:24 PM by Astaa
twinsonian wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Jun 2021 10:35 AM
Phoenix is a healing and casting heavy game. Melee is secondary. Mid is melee heavy.

HEALING:
Hibernia has 4 classes that can heal (You can try to count enchanters with their healing pet):
Druid, Warden, Bard, Ment

Alb has 2 (You can try to count cab life transfer or paladin chant and life shout).
Cleric and Friar. It is hard to count paladins since no one plays one because the chant system requires a computer program to even play the class.

Mid has 2 (You can try to count spirit master life transfer).
Healer and Shaman. Both classes have a wide range on specs so the zerg feels like it always lacks heals.

HIB CASTER BALANCE:
All three realms received base nukes missing in one of their lines. Det is a bandaid RA now when the real problem was having CC that lasts for over a minute in the first place (hello sorcs). We wont talk about the new style changes coming yet. The thread as of writing this has 43 pages of good and bad points about balance. Disease and nearsight last way too long and the bandaid fix for cure nearsight doesnt fit well with mid.

Hib base line ranged stun against non-det classes is a death sentence if purge is down. No other class except healer and cleric can provide this with the exception of maybe the air theurg? I know everyone is tired of reading and seeing this but that doesnt mean it still isnt a thing. Baseline stun was a stupid implementation. OP in many situations and awful as CC in general. Roots and Mez last for upwards of a minute while stun is 9 seconds. In 8 man even, that isnt reliable CC especially since everything has det and you want your melee stunning anyway, The other two realms got root on the casters, unfortunately the naturey classes got root in hib so it seems like they ran out of ideas and thought stun was the right solution. Even still -- it provides the lulz in a zerg and easy mode kills so of course it is appealing for many players.

Enchanters - a speed and pet summoning class, were given base disease and root and still have perma snare and a pet demez. They can debuff their own damage and pbaoe if specd mana or they can debuff str/dex/melee dmg 20% and swing speed 18%+ if specd light combined with PD and toughness. They are speedy little nightmares now.

Ments were given nearsight in the mana line. One spec line to get all of the utility of the class because they only need enough points in ment to get cure mez and decent heals and mez.

Elds are just plain solid. They feel much more solid than their counterparts in the other realms with CC and utility.

All casters are overtuned.
Sun 6 Jun 2021 9:50 PM by Adwaenyth
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Jun 2021 3:48 AM
Maybe it isn´t the super coordination, being better players, having a BG for almost 24/7 or whatever people claim why Hib has the upper hand (as if other realm players were somehow stupid or just newbs or whatever). Maybe they get (or try to paint) the causality wrong - Hib can defend at any time, even at low(er) population times (where a FG or a couple Rangers can make a difference) or when having lower population (Hib can defend relics even with 2 enemy BGs roaming Hib and a double-digit RP bonus from /u). Maybe it just works with whoever leads. That said, Reix is a great leader, Smap not so much (while dedicated, he isn´t that bright from what I can tell). But it works with whomever.

On a larger scale, the fact that Hib has many players dedicating themselves to running the BG (even if they do not really want to) is definitely a factor in why Hib is dominant. Currently we have BG Leaders all around the globe which really helps in keeping the hibs together. You can see it, if none of them are online. That is usually the time when the Hib keeps crumble, because Hibs are so used to a well functioning BG, they often do not show up unless there is an experienced leader. On the other hand, if there is one, just about everyone flocks to that BG. Next to how difficult it is to run a 8man PUG setup in Hib effectively, most Hibs then do elect to stay with the BG instead.

Even with even numbers over all, Hib BG usually sports more players, because Alb and Mid usually has several 8man running task zone up and down all the time.

On an intermediate scale, Albs and Mids act way too predictable in many cases. Yes the options of what you can do are limited. However if you use the same pattern over and over again, its relatively easy to predict what's going to happen next and where best to be next. Unless you get creative in that deparment, this is really giving Hib the advantage in defending their own realm, because most already now how to best defend against that.

On a small scale, if you have even numbers and do not engage in an open field battle, but turn tails and run then yes - your BG will just get slaughtered. The only way, to make a baseline stun - nuke tactic really strong open field, is when you turn and just run. Then your zerg gets picked off one by one and just disintegrates from back to front. Sadly, that seems to be the standard tactic of Alb or Mid BGs recently when encountering and equally sized Hib BG. Run into a tower - which are terrible places to defend against a BG in any Realm - and die there.
Sun 6 Jun 2021 10:10 PM by stewbeedoo
I don't have a lot of experience with the BG action, but Pilz leaving seems to have been a boon for Hib.

The other leaders (Reix, Lavar, etc) are better and treat the Hib BG members with respect. They make it fun.
Sun 6 Jun 2021 10:16 PM by Taln
No wonder albs and mids stopped playing since all hib has done in the past months is sos into towers/keeps and just put down a crazy amount of maelstorms( after waiting 40 mins afk inside keeps just to bomb the enemy zergs inside a tower/keep when good intel is given). Maelstorm is a ridiculous RA that doesn't even need to exist in the first place. Soon the mid BG will get bored of feeding you RPs and all the hibs will do is look at each other and play cards. good luck you won the game.
Sun 6 Jun 2021 11:27 PM by Leafus
I propose for 1 week every person join hib. Let’s make the other realms near zero population.
Mon 7 Jun 2021 12:00 AM by stewbeedoo
Taln wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Jun 2021 10:16 PM
No wonder albs and mids stopped playing since all hib has done in the past months is sos into towers/keeps and just put down a crazy amount of maelstorms( after waiting 40 mins afk inside keeps just to bomb the enemy zergs inside a tower/keep when good intel is given). Maelstorm is a ridiculous RA that doesn't even need to exist in the first place. Soon the mid BG will get bored of feeding you RPs and all the hibs will do is look at each other and play cards. good luck you won the game.
I agree the Hib BG is very effective. I think this is purely because there is good leadership and enough players to make it work. They come prepared with siege, wood, etc and spec accordingly. I have not seen a BG lie in wait for 40 minutes - quite the contrary the Hib BG seems to keep moving.
Mon 7 Jun 2021 5:35 AM by goodthymes
stewbeedoo wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 12:00 AM
Taln wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Jun 2021 10:16 PM
No wonder albs and mids stopped playing since all hib has done in the past months is sos into towers/keeps and just put down a crazy amount of maelstorms( after waiting 40 mins afk inside keeps just to bomb the enemy zergs inside a tower/keep when good intel is given). Maelstorm is a ridiculous RA that doesn't even need to exist in the first place. Soon the mid BG will get bored of feeding you RPs and all the hibs will do is look at each other and play cards. good luck you won the game.
I agree the Hib BG is very effective. I think this is purely because there is good leadership and enough players to make it work. They come prepared with siege, wood, etc and spec accordingly. I have not seen a BG lie in wait for 40 minutes - quite the contrary the Hib BG seems to keep moving.

I think your observation about the current state of the Hib BG is spot on. Reix & Co. are doing a phenomenal job. Dread the day when Pilz comes crawling back to Hib, the BG will go back to zombie state again.
Mon 7 Jun 2021 7:16 AM by Tyrlaan
Taln wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Jun 2021 10:16 PM
No wonder albs and mids stopped playing since all hib has done in the past months is sos into towers/keeps and just put down a crazy amount of maelstorms( after waiting 40 mins afk inside keeps just to bomb the enemy zergs inside a tower/keep when good intel is given). Maelstorm is a ridiculous RA that doesn't even need to exist in the first place. Soon the mid BG will get bored of feeding you RPs and all the hibs will do is look at each other and play cards. good luck you won the game.

Actually that´s been a recent tactic and it started with Loop-Polemo (or rather Frape) miraculously coming to the defense of Alb towers in Hib. I remember the Hib BG retaking towers and the Mid BG lying in wait near a tower that´s likely to be attacked soonish (for instance inside the maze near Nged WT). Recently it has evolved into the tactic where a couple of TWF/NM users just delay the push to the lord so that the remaining force somewhere outside can inc to crush the attacking force.
Mon 7 Jun 2021 7:59 AM by Taln
goodthymes wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 5:35 AM
stewbeedoo wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 12:00 AM
Taln wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Jun 2021 10:16 PM
No wonder albs and mids stopped playing since all hib has done in the past months is sos into towers/keeps and just put down a crazy amount of maelstorms( after waiting 40 mins afk inside keeps just to bomb the enemy zergs inside a tower/keep when good intel is given). Maelstorm is a ridiculous RA that doesn't even need to exist in the first place. Soon the mid BG will get bored of feeding you RPs and all the hibs will do is look at each other and play cards. good luck you won the game.
I agree the Hib BG is very effective. I think this is purely because there is good leadership and enough players to make it work. They come prepared with siege, wood, etc and spec accordingly. I have not seen a BG lie in wait for 40 minutes - quite the contrary the Hib BG seems to keep moving.

I think your observation about the current state of the Hib BG is spot on. Reix & Co. are doing a phenomenal job. Dread the day when Pilz comes crawling back to Hib, the BG will go back to zombie state again.


Of course they are doing a wonderful job there's no enemy BGs to fight lol I've been on hib for the past week and all I've done is pvedoor and stomping on a 50 man mid bg without even any effort
Mon 7 Jun 2021 8:01 AM by Taln
Soon enough hibs won't have anyone to fight, and from my experience they already don't have anyone to fight since all is being done is taking empty keeps/towers
Mon 7 Jun 2021 8:15 AM by Tyrlaan
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Jun 2021 5:34 PM
Hib base line ranged stun against non-det classes is a death sentence if purge is down. No other class except healer and cleric can provide this with the exception of maybe the air theurg? I
Don't worry, my ministrel use its istun in 8vs8 or 8vsX when someone calls an assist. At the same time as rupting 2 other caster who also have to battle the 5 pets.
Root on caster is way better than casted stun to kite effectively, for pets and tanks, especially coupled with Ichor.
Again, a 100% biased response...

Hib mages are so OP that nobody plays them in GvG. You have only one set-up really viable and it's the animist/mentalist comp, because of the combo mentalist debuff/tanglers (because you know, they root)...
The same old blabla. Root is better in open field but stun on ranged dps is the lols at structures. Hib has been handed roots left and right while I´m still waiting for stun on the Wizard or RM. You should try to get your argument right: either stun isn´t useful anyway (then it surely won´t make a difference if given to Alb/Mid casters too, right?) or it is (then Alb/Mid casters should get it too). The different usefulness or lack of root isn´t an argument anymore. Initially it was on Animists/tanglers (back then a class not played much outside keep warfare - where roots are not as useful as stuns - because it had little synergy with the other Hib casters on heat debuffs) and Druids (who were usually a class you´d want 2 of), now we have roots on Bards and Chanters too and roaming groups running Animists for tangler fields and spec nuking off much more common body debuffs (dev-sponsored balance change). That´s before all the Ichors and snares of course which Hib has plenty of on many classes. You can´t claim with a straight face that Hib lacks roots or snares.

Me stun nuking somebody on the wall means I can stun for ranged dps (me) and that´s a certain kill if their purge is down and they have no heals. If they do have heals (with a delay) they still die if enough other casters join on the stunned target (usually with a delay too). A Minstrel stunning somebody on the wall always requires other casters to have LoS to it and react in time in order to score a kill. That´s what I meant - people trying to paper-DAoC-dismiss the reality that one is much better and effective at killing people than the other, resulting in better tower/keep offense/defense (even with lower numbers) and relics. We are at 5 relics again.

And who the fuck cares what casters are played in this 1% GvG circle jerk clique when they are both played in high numbers and very effective in RvR (and in plenty of groups too)? That´s a non-argument anyway since you choose to ignore that you´ll see even less Wizards in those GvG groups even though they get root.
Mon 7 Jun 2021 9:20 AM by Adwaenyth
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 8:15 AM
I can stun for ranged dps (me) and that´s a certain kill if their purge is down and they have no heals.

That are a lot of "ifs" for a "certain" kill.
Mon 7 Jun 2021 9:25 AM by Arkeon
Leafus wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Jun 2021 11:27 PM
I propose for 1 week every person join hib. Let’s make the other realms near zero population.

I remember one evening when after the usual 10/20 wipes, the mydd bg leader said the same thing, at the same time the spies inside the bg warned, and the hibbs disbanded the bg to allow the retake.

stewbeedoo wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 12:00 AM
I agree the Hib BG is very effective. I think this is purely because there is good leadership and enough players to make it work. They come prepared with siege, wood, etc and spec accordingly. I have not seen a BG lie in wait for 40 minutes - quite the contrary the Hib BG seems to keep moving.

They move only if no one around, otherwise they can stay afk 55 minutes without problems waiting for "info"

The forum has always been full of hibb fanatics, however it is interesting to see that the tone of the interventions has calmed down a lot now, that they realize that without enemies you do not play. as soon as mydd get tired of giving free rps will be over. (honestly I'm amazed that they can wipe 9 times out of 10 every day for months and go on)

In essence if the hibbs like their style of play, it is time for them to stop crying, indeed it is time for them to start crying in favor of the other realms, as long as they want to continue playing as they do now.
Mon 7 Jun 2021 11:01 AM by Astaa
I think every realm accuses others of spying or whatever but I don't think it's as bigger problem as people make out.

If you spend any time in Hib BG you will see the amount of info that comes from both within the BG and those not in the BG, people call enemy movement, all the time. Region almost becomes a sub-BG at times, indeed even with no BG leader on we are well coordinated because we share info.

Then we have some excellent leaders, whereas Alb/Mid don't, Reix has been great the last week or so, clear instruction, no shouting and screaming at people when it doesn't work out, there is genuine working together.

Obviously the population numbers are an issue but even outnumbered we put up a well-organised and informed BG. We hit Albs at Bled last night, they had absolutely no idea we were coming until we steamrolled them (reasonably equal numbers) same with mids later at Glen. Where was their intel? In the case of the Alb BG crush, we ran all the way from either Glen or Blend, can't remember which, seemingly completely unspotted.

There was a moment in POC when we took the relic where mids tried to spring a trap, except we were well aware they were there because people went ahead and saw them.
Mon 7 Jun 2021 11:19 AM by Saroi
Not really hard to spy on Albs. They had a BG up 2 days ago and some guy streamed on Twitch. Had quite a good amount of viewers
Mon 7 Jun 2021 2:44 PM by inoeth
so how is a discussion about who spies on who attending new players? or did the conversation shifted to "how to attend new BG-leaders?" at some point i missed? ;D

not that i really cared but just sayin
Mon 7 Jun 2021 5:11 PM by Adwaenyth
inoeth wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 2:44 PM
so how is a discussion about who spies on who attending new players? or did the conversation shifted to "how to attend new BG-leaders?" at some point i missed? ;D

not that i really cared but just sayin

The whole thread was never about attending new players, just about making unfounded accusations.
Tue 8 Jun 2021 7:17 AM by Noashakra
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 8:15 AM
And who the fuck cares what casters are played in this 1% GvG circle jerk clique when they are both played in high numbers and very effective in RvR (and in plenty of groups too)? That´s a non-argument anyway since you choose to ignore that you´ll see even less Wizards in those GvG groups even though they get root.

I don't care about the GvG myself but it's a reflection of which set up is strong or not. Alb has almost always the most gvg groups tagged.
I play alb at the moment, after playing mid for a while, and hib before that and people who think hib is overpowered are only whining bad alb players.
I am not going to counter all you arguments one by one, it'll be a waste of time, because you are not objective about the power of your realm.
Alb body debuff setup is F***ING EASY MODE compared to the rest.

I saw some people complain all day long about hib on alb advice. You know what they all had in commun? They were super bad players who don't know how to play their class (like a really high rank ministrel I will not name here).
Tue 8 Jun 2021 9:17 AM by DJ2000
Dark age of Complainalot.

It's part of the game.
Tue 8 Jun 2021 9:52 AM by Adwaenyth
DJ2000 wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jun 2021 9:17 AM
Dark age of Complainalot.

It's part of the game.

Well the worst part about the complaints isn't even that they are complaining but that they have given up on trying to find a way to make it work or identifying the real problem.

It's almost never just a single ability that is overpowered. If that is the case, it usually gets nerfed quite quickly anyways. For example, baseline stun is situationally strong, yes. But it's never the baseline stun, that kills enemy zergs. If that were the case, smite clerics would be a thing.

The problem with zergs is almost always the class composition. Almost all Hib casters are played with either AoE or PBAoE spec (the same that they are played in PvE). And all are using AoEs that synergize well with each other.
Alb casters on the other hand you've got sorc which is usually AoE Mez, Single Target assisting Cab. Cab which is either AoE DoT or Debuff Nuke. Theurgist is single target period. Necromancer is usually PBAoE Dot and Wizard is usually non-existant. So you've got no synergy here. AoE DoTs that will just make everyone effectively mez / root immune and best AoE CC'er do not work well together. So even if Albs have the CC advantage, they usually mess it all up by having a ton of AoE leechers that aren't really that dangerous to the Hib zerg.

Add to that, that in Hib all the relevant RAs for zerg/keep RvR are either on casters (NM, Static) or on Supporters (TWF, SoS). So you can build a Hib zerg RvR group like Ench, Eld, Ani, Menta, Druid, Druid, Bard, Warden and have all required RAs, a ton of AoE DD, PBAoE DD, AoE interrupt, Near Sight, Disease, Debuffs and all without ever having to invite a Reaver, Minstrel or anything else for that matter. Also you can easily switch one of the casters for a hero and have defensive abilities in it without losing access to all other needed abilities or much of the damage required to kill the enemy zerg.

The problem isn't baseline stun, it is that Hibs here got it really really easy in building zerg RvR groups. Same as Alb got it really really easy in building 8v8 groups btw. Midgard is kind of a mixed bunch, since they heavily prefer melee classes, which can be very strong in a 8v8 but usually lack abilities in a zerg vs zerg situation. So Thanes, RMs, Shamans and SMs would give Midgard a lot of AoE and PBAoE caster power but they still need to pick up Skalds for speed (which are pretty useless in zerg rvr other than for SoS and a little interrupt) and Bonedancers which can be a pain in the behind but simply lack consistent AoE damage to finally kill the enemy zerg.
Tue 8 Jun 2021 10:20 AM by DJ2000
Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jun 2021 9:52 AM
Well the worst part about the complaints isn't even that they are complaining but that they have given up on trying to find a way to make it work or identifying the real problem.

Complaints are not a problem per se. its natural to complain. Realm building/Realm pride are part of it etc. this ain't no psychology class here, just leave it at that.

Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jun 2021 9:52 AM
The problem with zergs is almost always the class composition. Almost all Hib casters are played with either AoE or PBAoE spec (the same that they are played in PvE). And all are using AoEs that synergize well with each other.
- Alb casters on the other hand you've got sorc which is usually AoE Mez, Single Target assisting Cab.
- Cab which is either AoE DoT or Debuff Nuke.
- Theurgist is single target period.
- Necromancer is usually PBAoE Dot and
- Wizard is usually non-existant.
So you've got no synergy here.
AoE DoTs that will just make everyone effectively mez / root immune and best AoE CC'er do not work well together.
So even if Albs have the CC advantage, they usually mess it all up by having a ton of AoE leechers that aren't really that dangerous to the Hib zerg.

We are talking about Zerg-warfare, right? You mean class composition as a whole, not down to the grps. Because, apart from the "leading" 1-3 grps, the mass of grps within a zerg are mostly garbage, when it comes to composition.
AoE leechers are in every realm, thats not an albion thing.
Why you're calling wizards in the alb bg to be non-existant is beyond me, but i guess you mean Ice (pbaoe) Wizards.
Putting the blame all on AoE, then Midgard should be the best realm now, wouldn't it?
If you want to blame something in "ZergvZerg", then it's the (player)numbers.
That's the MOST deciding factor in any of this.

Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jun 2021 9:52 AM
Add to that, that in Hib all the relevant RAs for zerg/keep RvR are either on casters (NM, Static) or on Supporters (TWF, SoS). So you can build a Hib zerg RvR group like Ench, Eld, Ani, Menta, Druid, Druid, Bard, Warden and have all required RAs, a ton of AoE DD, PBAoE DD, AoE interrupt, Near Sight, Disease, Debuffs and all without ever having to invite a Reaver, Minstrel or anything else for that matter. Also you can easily switch one of the casters for a hero and have defensive abilities in it without losing access to all other needed abilities or much of the damage required to kill the enemy zerg.

Are you sure you are talking about ZERGvZERG? Are you just paper-Daoc'ing?

Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jun 2021 9:52 AM
The problem isn't baseline stun, it is that Hibs here got it really really easy in building zerg RvR groups. Same as Alb got it really really easy in building 8v8 groups btw. Midgard is kind of a mixed bunch, since they heavily prefer melee classes, which can be very strong in a 8v8 but usually lack abilities in a zerg vs zerg situation. So Thanes, RMs, Shamans and SMs would give Midgard a lot of AoE and PBAoE caster power but they still need to pick up Skalds for speed (which are pretty useless in zerg rvr other than for SoS and a little interrupt) and Bonedancers which can be a pain in the behind but simply lack consistent AoE damage to finally kill the enemy zerg.

I wish you could be at least a bit objective/neutral in discussion like this, but that seems out of the question.
Tue 8 Jun 2021 5:29 PM by Siouxsie
Problem with zerg warfare is:
1. Hibs and Albs field a lot more players in zerg fights. Often, in Mid BG there will be 70, 80, 100 players in the BG, but there will only be 3 or 4 groups actually WITH the BG leader. Where the other 60-70 mids are is anyone's guess (AFK in relic town, running flags, running s00per-l337 8 mans...)
2. A certain Hib ranger group likes to camp keeps and jump up and down in an area shooting arrows at anyone who comes close. This makes taking a keep without a lot of support impossible. Mids already struggle with not enough support classes, or mids stand there with their thumbs up their butts when they should be actively suppressing/rupting walls
3. Hib zerg always seems to have 2-4 x the number and half of them use TWFs, NMs, STs repeatedly and everywhere. (Most of this problem is down to developer decisions to give HIbernia more RA 'toys'.. thanks guys)

Now say you're a mid player, and you want to join the zerg. So you join up, spend about 15 minutes trying to reach it without dying (which is hard because you have to keep asking where the BG is), then you finally reach it only to have a hib zerg (or alb zerg) totally crush your BG over and over and over.

Not very fun at all. No wonder a lot of people stopped joining Mid BGs. Hibs have this playstyle that just enrages everyone who is not a hib.
Tue 8 Jun 2021 5:52 PM by Astaa
On the flip side. Mids dump 2,3,4 TWFs on top of each other

In hib BG, people call TWFs, when and where they plan to drop them.
Wed 9 Jun 2021 6:39 AM by Sepplord
Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jun 2021 5:52 PM
On the flip side. Mids dump 2,3,4 TWFs on top of each other

In hib BG, people call TWFs, when and where they plan to drop them.

So, the claim is that hibernia players are just more skilled? Is that all that is to it?
But why are hibernia players just outright more skilled? Does a players skill increase automatically by clicking on the tree? Or are all the skilled players intentionally going into the weak realm because they love to challenge themselves, and they overcome the odds stacked against them with their superior skills?
Wed 9 Jun 2021 6:58 AM by Astaa
Not more skilled, better organised. A zerg of individuals vs a coordinated zerg just won't win. It mostly comes down to leadership/social issues, weak leadership and players seemingly competing with their own realm in the BG, or in Mids case, straight up refusing to help the BG and preferring to just run flags.

Having said that, I have mostly been on Alb the last few days and some questions and more importantly answers, in advice, are just painful.

There also has to be a tipping point, which we have met, where people are fed up with losing due to the above issues so switch to the winning side. It helps nobody, but again it's not down to class/realm balance, and it's getting worse, you just need to check /tradeorder to see the amount of plat people are trying to xfer to Hib for toons not yet levelled/equipped. Changing game mechanics to fix it won't work in the long run because before too long it will swing to Alb or Mid when a leader emerges. If someone is willing to step up and lead then people should encourage them. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

Edit, and screaming at people for making mistakes doesn't work either, it just makes people no longer follow (switch realm or run flags) the game is supposed to be fun
Wed 9 Jun 2021 1:01 PM by Noashakra
Having said that, I have mostly been on Alb the last few days and some questions and more importantly answers, in advice, are just painful.

Don't worry I had someone telling me to get educated because he 100% saw a mage dodge his arrow when I tried to explain to him you needed at least evade 1 to have a chance to evade.
Wed 9 Jun 2021 1:52 PM by DJ2000
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Jun 2021 1:01 PM
Having said that, I have mostly been on Alb the last few days and some questions and more importantly answers, in advice, are just painful.

Don't worry I had someone telling me to get educated because he 100% saw a mage dodge his arrow when I tried to explain to him you needed at least evade 1 to have a chance to evade.

100% sure we can put the blame on Blitze.
Enticing and deceiving other Players, he should be banned.
Wed 9 Jun 2021 2:10 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Jun 2021 1:01 PM
Having said that, I have mostly been on Alb the last few days and some questions and more importantly answers, in advice, are just painful.

Don't worry I had someone telling me to get educated because he 100% saw a mage dodge his arrow when I tried to explain to him you needed at least evade 1 to have a chance to evade.

Zerosubstance spent 2 hours last week telling the entirety of Albion that everyone can evade, no matter what, and offered to pay anyone willing to bet against him 10p if he was wrong.

I took the bet, the next day he admits he was wrong ... still waiting on my money.
Sat 12 Jun 2021 4:23 PM by Magesty
Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jun 2021 5:52 PM
On the flip side. Mids dump 2,3,4 TWFs on top of each other

In hib BG, people call TWFs, when and where they plan to drop them.

As someone who spends most of their time soloing it isn't often I get to bear witness the extreme organization and tactics of the zergers on Hib.

However, on this night, a couple of my allies and I were fortunate enough to get an up close and personal look at what I can only assume is the most feared and disciplined unit on Phoenix. Let me tell you, the tales shared in hushed voices late into the night around the fire do not do them justice.

https://youtu.be/C8Rb1Hmg4RY
Sat 12 Jun 2021 5:56 PM by Astaa
Magesty wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Jun 2021 4:23 PM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jun 2021 5:52 PM
On the flip side. Mids dump 2,3,4 TWFs on top of each other

In hib BG, people call TWFs, when and where they plan to drop them.

As someone who spends most of their time soloing it isn't often I get to bear witness the extreme organization and tactics of the zergers on Hib.

However, on this night, a couple of my allies and I were fortunate enough to get an up close and personal look at what I can only assume is the most feared and disciplined unit on Phoenix. Let me tell you, the tales shared in hushed voices late into the night around the fire do not do them justice.

https://youtu.be/C8Rb1Hmg4RY

Subscribed, for the music.
Sun 13 Jun 2021 12:03 AM by SgtGator
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Jun 2021 1:01 PM
Having said that, I have mostly been on Alb the last few days and some questions and more importantly answers, in advice, are just painful.

Don't worry I had someone telling me to get educated because he 100% saw a mage dodge his arrow when I tried to explain to him you needed at least evade 1 to have a chance to evade.

anyone can dodge WITHOUT evade skill..........you just need a Pocket Sin with Strike Prediction
Sun 13 Jun 2021 9:44 AM by Noashakra
SgtGator wrote: ↑
Sun 13 Jun 2021 12:03 AM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 9 Jun 2021 1:01 PM
Having said that, I have mostly been on Alb the last few days and some questions and more importantly answers, in advice, are just painful.

Don't worry I had someone telling me to get educated because he 100% saw a mage dodge his arrow when I tried to explain to him you needed at least evade 1 to have a chance to evade.

anyone can dodge WITHOUT evade skill..........you just need a Pocket Sin with Strike Prediction

Which nobody is using on this server
But he obviously wasn't speaking about the RA
Sun 13 Jun 2021 11:22 AM by Siouxsie
Magesty wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Jun 2021 4:23 PM
Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jun 2021 5:52 PM
On the flip side. Mids dump 2,3,4 TWFs on top of each other

In hib BG, people call TWFs, when and where they plan to drop them.

As someone who spends most of their time soloing it isn't often I get to bear witness the extreme organization and tactics of the zergers on Hib.

However, on this night, a couple of my allies and I were fortunate enough to get an up close and personal look at what I can only assume is the most feared and disciplined unit on Phoenix. Let me tell you, the tales shared in hushed voices late into the night around the fire do not do them justice.

https://youtu.be/C8Rb1Hmg4RY

Wow they didn't dump oil on you guys? You stood at the door for ages!
Mon 14 Jun 2021 8:04 AM by Astaa
I spent an hour trying to find a group on reaver last night, everyone wanted a perfect 8 with a friar.

Yes, yes, make your own groups, but why when you just end up with a load of 5 mans in the BG? I followed the BG for a bit but with no speed and no heals it is largely a pointless exercise. I would have thought TWF was pretty important, but maybe not. At one point Pilz was actually taking players from other groups, leaving them with no support etc. Very strange atmosphere. Then you get people wanting to fill with casters, then whining when casters just get mown down without guard.

Gave up, gone back to ranger/eld for my zerg surfing fix. I know it doesn't help with the population issues, but neither does any of the above.
Mon 14 Jun 2021 5:49 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Astaa wrote: ↑
Mon 14 Jun 2021 8:04 AM
At one point Pilz was actually taking players from other groups, leaving them with no support etc.

All the BG leaders in Alb do that. They want their group to be perfect and won't run if it's not.
Mon 14 Jun 2021 8:05 PM by Leafus
Seeing reduced numbers. Congrats to the hibs. You won DAOC. Your prize is to play against nobody.
Tue 15 Jun 2021 3:15 AM by Vkejai
I believe some sort of bigger rp bonus ( more than current ) for lesser realm in FZ would help with pop balance but hard to give a true indication while theres loads of afkers in relic town.

Is there a reason why people in relic town are counted in pop bonus ? Also from a zerg perspective larger numbers in zone dont always give you a true reading of BG numbers.
Tue 15 Jun 2021 4:09 AM by easytoremember
Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 9:20 AM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 8:15 AM
I can stun for ranged dps (me) and that´s a certain kill if their purge is down and they have no heals.

That are a lot of "ifs" for a "certain" kill.
stun->nuke->dead
stun->purge->stun 1 minute later->dead
Tue 15 Jun 2021 6:06 AM by Astaa
Leafus wrote: ↑
Mon 14 Jun 2021 8:05 PM
Seeing reduced numbers. Congrats to the hibs. You won DAOC. Your prize is to play against nobody.

My sympathy doesn't go very far, I am afraid. If I go out solo on my hero I get zerged, relentlessly, for hours, to the point that I don't want to play any more, I can play for hours and not get a single fair fight. So for now I zerg keeps on other toons (mostly defend). It's either that or I stop playing DAOC again, which I am not quite ready to do just yet.

Edit, and this isnt the first time I have tried Alb, I also have an RR5+ mincer which I played 6 months or so ago, and it was pretty much the same then but with Polemo shouting and screaming at the zergs.

You all need to have a whip round and pay Barachan, so he can play more, a genuinely good leader. He reminds me of Gilboom in many ways.
Fri 18 Jun 2021 7:55 AM by Adwaenyth
easytoremember wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Jun 2021 4:09 AM
Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 9:20 AM
Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 8:15 AM
I can stun for ranged dps (me) and that´s a certain kill if their purge is down and they have no heals.

That are a lot of "ifs" for a "certain" kill.
stun->nuke->dead
stun->purge->stun 1 minute later->dead

Still doesn't account for the no heal parts unless you're talking 1 vs 1.

If you are talking 1 vs 1, then what are we talking about? You can't 1 vs 1 kill the hib caster in 1 minute of stun immunity? Then they pretty much deserve to kill you.

If you aren't talking about 1 vs 1, then again what are we talking about? Baseline stun isn't your problem then, but lack of coordination.

Even fully buffed as RR7 ench it takes about 7 seconds to debuff nuke kill an enemy caster (6s if you count from the moment you got hit by the first spell). If you're not getting heals by then, you're either alone or well away from your healer. Any faster means someone else was invovled. In any case your problem wasn't the baseline stun to begin with but lack of situational awareness (or as some might call it "bad luck getting caught at the wrong moment" ).

I won't deny that baseline stun is situationally strong. That situation is playing against uncoordinated enemies (which somehow are readily available in the enemy zergs). Its strength wanes as soon as you fight well built and well coordinated groups. That's why it never got nerfed in 20 years of DAoC gameplay.
Fri 18 Jun 2021 8:50 AM by Sepplord
Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Fri 18 Jun 2021 7:55 AM
I won't deny that baseline stun is situationally strong. That situation is playing against uncoordinated enemies (which somehow are readily available in the enemy zergs). Its strength wanes as soon as you fight well built and well coordinated groups. That's why it never got nerfed in 20 years of DAoC gameplay.

What are you really arguing then?
The discussion (or at least the person you quoted) is talking about Zerg/siege combat, not 8vs8
and there the caststun on the majority of ranged-DPS has a huge influence
Fri 18 Jun 2021 10:38 AM by Adwaenyth
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 18 Jun 2021 8:50 AM
Adwaenyth wrote: ↑
Fri 18 Jun 2021 7:55 AM
I won't deny that baseline stun is situationally strong. That situation is playing against uncoordinated enemies (which somehow are readily available in the enemy zergs). Its strength wanes as soon as you fight well built and well coordinated groups. That's why it never got nerfed in 20 years of DAoC gameplay.

What are you really arguing then?
The discussion (or at least the person you quoted) is talking about Zerg/siege combat, not 8vs8
and there the caststun on the majority of ranged-DPS has a huge influence

I'm arguing that people are wilfully ignorant of their own inability or unwillingness to coordinate. Playing with the zerg and playing coordinated are not mutually exclusive, though the majority of players complaining about certain abilities are treating it that way.

Everyone should play to their own preference. However I'd hope that people at least recognize that they are part of the problem when they do not want to invest fully into the game. Then it is not a single ability that is only that strong under those circuumstances.
Mon 21 Jun 2021 7:23 AM by Sepplord
if one side has an easy thing that works without coordination, and the other has the same tools but requires coordination, then that isn't balanced. Pointing at top-skill play environment and saying: see it is no issue there, isn't incorrect, but it is still ignoring the problem "pubstompers" can have.
Even big games like LoL once wanted to only balance for high-skill coordinated gameplay, but they realised that they also have to adress champions that are easily shutdown at high-elo but completely run over low-elo games. Because those low elo players are the basis of your game. If you just shrug and tell them to "git gud" you might be correct, but the effect won't be that they get good


I don't know what solution would be within daocs spirit, and not create other serious problems elsewhere. And Stun-nuke imo isn't the only nor the biggest contributor. But trying to claim that stun-nuke isn't a strong hib benefit in siegefights is just dishonest
Fri 25 Jun 2021 12:00 AM by Tyrlaan
He also missed the part where coordination doesn´t help. Highlighted:

Tyrlaan wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Jun 2021 8:15 AM
Me stun nuking somebody on the wall means I can stun for ranged dps (me) and that´s a certain kill if their purge is down and they have no heals. If they do have heals (with a delay) they still die if enough other casters join on the stunned target (usually with a delay too).

Being stunned in LoS of enemy casters on a wall is a death sentence. It only needs a few to Next-Target to join in and no heals will save you. Even if you Purge or the casters don´t get enough nukes off within the stun window, it will be another attempt just 1 minute later. You have 1 minute to live and try to do something on the walls, enjoy.

That´s the denial I was talking about. It´s easy to witness every day when trying to defend from the walls or roofs instead of waiting for the door to break down. I don´t understand why anyone would try to argue? This is an old game, many of us have played two decades in various realms on various servers. Stun nukes are easymode (just not for the receiving end) just like Warlocks were (Warlocks were actually one counter to it with their ability to deal instant burst damage - whoever got the jump on the other would usually win unless DI - one by stunning to nuke, the other by frontloading and releasing chambers at once).

The solution within DAoC´s spirit has been: every realm has strengths and weaknesses - and Hib´s strength is siege/BG and the high utility in the 3 Naturalists allowing much more versatility in group builds at the expense of utility on casters. Alb is nudged towards casters (the non-Wizards with the high utility and synergy), Mid towards melee.

But somehow that balance (in the grand scheme of things) was ignored and they started to remove weaknesses, added stuff (to classes with high utility already) Hib didn´t get because they got other things (among them easy stun nukes) and made Hib debuffs delve higher just because. They also nerfed /groundassist, GTAE and bolts which are rarely seen in Hib but are the staple of the siege/BG classes in Alb and Mid (and are the counters to holed up PBAE and again, offering a chance of burst damage where you can´t stun your target)... who would´ve thought all that could shift BG balance - even further, that is to say, because it was Hib´s superiority at structures which allowed Pilz to farm towers and keeps for RPs relatively unmolested in the first place.
Wed 30 Jun 2021 10:22 AM by borodino1812
Astaa wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Jun 2021 6:06 AM
Leafus wrote: ↑
Mon 14 Jun 2021 8:05 PM
Seeing reduced numbers. Congrats to the hibs. You won DAOC. Your prize is to play against nobody.
You all need to have a whip round and pay Barachan, so he can play more, a genuinely good leader. He reminds me of Gilboom in many ways.

I would have to agree on this, both have a relaxed style that makes it enjoyable to be in a BG.
Tue 6 Jul 2021 12:39 AM by torr071
back in my day when Hibs eventually resorted to the AoE tower experience.
You obviously cannot enter the tower or you just feed them RPs.
Treb the tower down to rubble, then destroy them.
Takes a bit more effort, but otherwise they will AoE you and win everytime, there is no defense to the Hib AoE stun tower strat,
you do not engage it. You treb the tower... and they poop their pants.
Tue 6 Jul 2021 2:06 AM by ExcretusMaximus
You can't drop structures on Phoenix, and will never be able to due to software constraints.
Tue 6 Jul 2021 9:52 AM by Wakefield
ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Jul 2021 2:06 AM
You can't drop structures on Phoenix, and will never be able to due to software constraints.

It's a shame that, collapsable towers and keep walls might interest me enough to play again as it's a benefit to mid tanks, instead of the 10000 rangers on assist with no real means of getting to them as its insta stun and dead whilst your support can't get los on you
Sat 10 Jul 2021 3:19 PM by Astaa
So now that Albs are back in number, do the people calling for Hib nerfs now want Alb nerfs...or?

Asking for a friend.
Sat 10 Jul 2021 4:47 PM by Komaf
weaverman78 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 May 2021 5:36 AM
If you are joining this game for the first time I have some advice for you. If you want to play easy mode, play Hibernia, extremely over powered in keep defense/siege; They have A pet class that summons shrooms that act like turrets, insanely long range rangers. Albion I would say is normal mode. If you want a harder difficulty, go Midgard, trust me you will learn very quickly why it's hard to play this realm.

Rangers only seem deadly to you - and longer range...which is of course, untrue, because a few folks on Hib team have the sense to group their shots. This game is filled with stoned, half aware players that play poorly as a team - or hyper elitists who tryhard in a 20 year old game and end up isolating themselves due to ridiculous behavior.

I am not judging, that's just the nature of all games. But every now and then you see a group of folks who really have it together. They are focused to get the most out of the game, and when they hit the field, it seems like (insert class) is so overpowered. When in truth, it's really the lack of organization on part of other players that is the key weakness.

Get a group of folks that play well together (log in around the same time, use Discord, etc) that are willing to really focus on the strengths of what they have. You're probably Midgard, so you could build a zerg buster group, as ONE example, aoe stun pbaoe down clumps of folks waiting to feed off of a castle RP siege leader. Build it, and it will work.

My 2 coppers.
Sat 10 Jul 2021 6:46 PM by Astaa
Rangers are so deadly because people are still so unaware of DAOC mechanics.

While I have only had one evening on ranger this week, I saw very little blocking, which suggests either people are too simple to invite a heavy tank or are just completely unaware of the changes.
Sat 10 Jul 2021 7:02 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Astaa wrote: ↑
Sat 10 Jul 2021 6:46 PM
While I have only had one evening on ranger this week, I saw very little blocking, which suggests either people are too simple to invite a heavy tank or are just completely unaware of the changes.

Tanks don't have AoE ranged damage, which is the only thing people in the zerg care about. They want all the RP from damage, and tanks don't get them any, so they don't get invited. I know because I've spent actual hours in the BG over the past two weeks trying to get an invite.
Sat 10 Jul 2021 11:29 PM by Astaa
Oh I know, people are dumb.

You literally can't fix stupid.
Sun 11 Jul 2021 4:18 PM by Pasa
Astaa wrote: ↑
Sat 10 Jul 2021 11:29 PM
Oh I know, people are dumb.

You literally can't fix stupid.

yes 100% agree Astaa....and this guys that dont invite a tank in grp...goin after Ranger kills forum/discord and crying for Ranger Nerf
Sun 11 Jul 2021 4:21 PM by Pasa
Komaf wrote: ↑
Sat 10 Jul 2021 4:47 PM
weaverman78 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 May 2021 5:36 AM
If you are joining this game for the first time I have some advice for you. If you want to play easy mode, play Hibernia, extremely over powered in keep defense/siege; They have A pet class that summons shrooms that act like turrets, insanely long range rangers. Albion I would say is normal mode. If you want a harder difficulty, go Midgard, trust me you will learn very quickly why it's hard to play this realm.

Rangers only seem deadly to you - and longer range...which is of course, untrue, because a few folks on Hib team have the sense to group their shots. This game is filled with stoned, half aware players that play poorly as a team - or hyper elitists who tryhard in a 20 year old game and end up isolating themselves due to ridiculous behavior.

I am not judging, that's just the nature of all games. But every now and then you see a group of folks who really have it together. They are focused to get the most out of the game, and when they hit the field, it seems like (insert class) is so overpowered. When in truth, it's really the lack of organization on part of other players that is the key weakness.

Get a group of folks that play well together (log in around the same time, use Discord, etc) that are willing to really focus on the strengths of what they have. You're probably Midgard, so you could build a zerg buster group, as ONE example, aoe stun pbaoe down clumps of folks waiting to feed off of a castle RP siege leader. Build it, and it will work.

My 2 coppers.


we build as Power Rangers an only Mentalist grp, and the same albs were going to cry for Menta Nerf..

our next project is Eld-grp..truth me the same cry
Mon 12 Jul 2021 6:39 AM by Sepplord
mentas are worth a cry about though, so i could understand that
but i also believe your point that cries will happen either way

yopu should do a full bard grp with 8xSOS 8xMelos and just troll the enemy zerg 24/7
Mon 12 Jul 2021 6:45 AM by Astaa
I can hit for 250ish with correct GTAOE placement on my void, 6 of them and goodbye ram users.

The truth is, archer groups have become more of a problem because of the overly heavy-handed nerfs repeatedly dished out on a whim to archers, making single archers pretty much useless in a keep fight, be it solo (how I play my ranger in the BG) or random group. Now, for the most part, it's join an archer group or waste your time.
Mon 12 Jul 2021 9:53 AM by Ceen
Pasa wrote: ↑
Sun 11 Jul 2021 4:21 PM
Komaf wrote: ↑
Sat 10 Jul 2021 4:47 PM
weaverman78 wrote: ↑
Wed 12 May 2021 5:36 AM
If you are joining this game for the first time I have some advice for you. If you want to play easy mode, play Hibernia, extremely over powered in keep defense/siege; They have A pet class that summons shrooms that act like turrets, insanely long range rangers. Albion I would say is normal mode. If you want a harder difficulty, go Midgard, trust me you will learn very quickly why it's hard to play this realm.

Rangers only seem deadly to you - and longer range...which is of course, untrue, because a few folks on Hib team have the sense to group their shots. This game is filled with stoned, half aware players that play poorly as a team - or hyper elitists who tryhard in a 20 year old game and end up isolating themselves due to ridiculous behavior.

I am not judging, that's just the nature of all games. But every now and then you see a group of folks who really have it together. They are focused to get the most out of the game, and when they hit the field, it seems like (insert class) is so overpowered. When in truth, it's really the lack of organization on part of other players that is the key weakness.

Get a group of folks that play well together (log in around the same time, use Discord, etc) that are willing to really focus on the strengths of what they have. You're probably Midgard, so you could build a zerg buster group, as ONE example, aoe stun pbaoe down clumps of folks waiting to feed off of a castle RP siege leader. Build it, and it will work.

My 2 coppers.


we build as Power Rangers an only Mentalist grp, and the same albs were going to cry for Menta Nerf..

our next project is Eld-grp..truth me the same cry
Yeah coordinated Eld group would be really strong in siege =)
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