TLDR: Instead of pushing players to adapt to a rigid task system, create a dynamic task system that adapts to the player's playstyle. Have different task-chains in place which get triggered by performing playstyle specifc actions and which reward the player for the playstyle that naturally suits his group composition (ie solo, smallman, fg, bg). Remove the realm specificty of the task system and apply it equally in all realms. There are enough playeys to populate all zones accordingly.
More ideas and examples below.
I've worked out a new approach for stimulating RvR in this post. It's long and not perfect by any means. However, I hope this can offer some inspiration and maybe considerable ideas for the future.
Let's start with our current situation. The implementation of the new task system communicates a few things to me as a player;
- the staff is very much on the ball (wink) when it comes to RvR participation and are committed to make it work
- the staff has a pool of creativity they can tap into and aren't shy of experimental implementation for the cause
- the overall intentions and care of the staff for RvR action and the server as a whole is tremendous
However, it also shows that while the staff is engaged and eager to tinker to make it work, there really is no real overarching vision from which changes are being made. It seems to me that the eagerness clouds a broader practical perspective.
My suggestion is this; definitely keep brainstorming fun and fresh RvR ideas and list them up. However, seperate the short from the long term ideas.
A lot of fresh additions only remain fun for so long and are really only worthwhile during events. Long term stability of RvR dynamics require more delicate and subtle measures that perhaps lack fluff, but yet provide powerful sustained fun.
Making the distinction between refreshing ideas and core stability could be helpful in progressing the server on both fronts. I think people would certainly appreciate refreshing events once in a while, but the core stability of RvR on a daily basis is the lifeline of the server as a whole.
That being said, let's talk about the core stability of RvR.
(I'm just laying out my own thinking process here because I think it could provide an efficient analytical approach for anyone to adopt when considering RvR improvements.)
A good place to start is to simply ask what we want the perfect system to achieve. What is the goal? Maximum amount of players in 1 zone? Maximum amount of players in one of the three frontiers? How about long term server population stability? Reasonable time to action for smallman, solo and fgs/zergs? Change of scenery? Minigames? Maximum zerging? Keepfights? All of the above?
It's a simple question without a straightforward answer. Think about how you would answer this.
My guess is that we want a long term RvR system that:
- stays minimalistic yet effective
- supports all types of gameplay
- considers time to action for all playstyles
- works organically with the natural flow of the map and the desired playstyle, ie just 'feels' right
- prevents task from shaping the playstyle, but rather allows the playstyle to shape the task
The next step is to come up with practical implementations that will bring to life the goals above.
Let me start by saying that I am a big fan of the personal tasks. The permanently active little boosts here and there are a fun addition, both for PvE and PvP. I think it's great and we should go down that road even further.
Let me elaborate.
As mentioned above, I would like the RvR system to focus primarily on supporting the playstyle that the player prefers instead of enticing them to play in a manner they would never opt for if it wasn't so rewarding through the task system.
Before going further into this I would like to propose an upgrade and tweaking of the Phoenix Claws. The amount of Claws dropped from a Caravan should increase to about 5 per horse and for keeplords it should scale with the level of the keep. After all, a higher level keep has had plenty of horses pumped into it.
At the same time, I would like to propose a few new buying options:
- Recharging stones
- Playstyle-specific task reward boost
- Porting stone to friendly keep (1 use)
- Porting stone to alliance keep (3 uses)
- Porting stone to guild keep (5 uses)
(cant port to a keep under attack)
Going further, my suggestion is to overhaul the system and remove the specific server wide active task system as we know it today. There would be no realm specificity with the changes I propose below.
Instead, I would focus completely on the passive personal tasks, but make them dynamically interactive with the player's playstyle. This means that by RvRing in a certain way, you will trigger a task-chain that is catered specifically to the RvR style that you chose. These playstyle based tasks reward Phoenix Claws on every level of completion. The higher levels of these tasks will also grant Phoenix Feathers. You can have several playstyle-specific tasks running at once, yet only the higher levels reward Feathers. Also, killing more players than the number of players in your grp without going out of RvR combat earns additional credit.
Let's work it out.
Soloers; you are a soloer hunting xpers. Killing your first XPer (or dying to one) will unlock a new playstyle-specific task-chain that rewards you for doing exactly that; killing enemies that have been recently engaged in PvE combat or are under 50. At the same time, you are marked as a high-threat target to all enemy xpers and will grant increasingly more XP and Gold reward when they kill you.
Similarly, killing gankers as an xper will start a task-chain that rewards you for interweaving PvE with the occasional RvR kill or death. For instance a scaling bonus in frontiers xp, rog drops and unlocking feather drops for lvl 50+ mobs. Also, a new concept of 'marking' an invading ganker as an xper using a command that puts a message in /region could give you credit for this task. For instance /region [number] [realm of invaders] [zone]. It only works when you have effectively clicked one of their names.
For a soloer hunting other 50s, a task-chain will start that is based on the amount of players you kill solo before dying with seriously incremental rewards.
For a smallman, a task-chain will start that rewards you for covering distance and roaming. More distance covered in between kills earns more credit.
For a fullgroup, a task-chain will start that earns you credit for killing enemy players near the most commonly traversed routes by fullgroups of the frontiers (I would love to see a heatmap of the RvR zones if anyone has the skils to make one, but I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for the devs to implement the credit system just by looking at every day action). You are also rewarded extra for staying in RvR combat longer whenever you are fighting an equal or higher number of players.
Alternatively, you are rewarded even more credit for taking a keep and the fights in which the keep is located during and after the keeptake. This bonus credit for fighting in the keep radius lasts 60 minutes for a non claimed keep but is permanent for every group who has a member of the guild who owns the keep. The bonus is also permanent, but less strong if one of your groupmembers is in the alliance of the guild who owns the keep.
For battlegroups, a task-chain is started once you defend or attack a keep. You earn credit through keepfights and will earn a massive bonus (feathers, claws and gold) for conquering DF. Conquering DF will unlock a task-chain that will grant the next massive reward for capturing a Relic. The keep vicinity bonus based on guilds and alliance also applies to BGs.
For Defenders, every keep owned that is taken in succession (1 hr timer?) will incrementally increase the amount of credit earned in a defensive BG, with the ultimate bonus being a succesful Relic Defense should it ever come to that.
Lastly, I would like to propose a new, voluntary task mechanic. After engaging into combat with an enemy player, you will be able to talk to an NPC in the home border keeps. He will allow you to chose a 'personal' task that allows you to pick any of the names of the players who have attacked you in the last 6 hours and start a task-chain that earns credit specifically for fighting this particular player. Alternatively, you can broaden your aim and choose the guilds these players are in. In this case you will earn less credit as you will have more targets to choose from.
When someone marks you as their prey, you will be notified on every character, even if you relogged. Of course a guild will also be notified.
All of the above will reward playstyles that were already decided on by players, but didn't align with the task system before.
Additionally, all playstyles are similarly rewarded for their specific yet natural aims. Keeps have now real significance even for 8mans (claim a keep, defend your zone, get marked..). Taking DF will actually be worth it in and of itself. Relic raids, and more specifically relic defenses will gain increasingly more significance.
All tasks should obviously drop gold and xp as a minimum. Rp reward for tasks should be minimal. Focus should be on claws and eventually feathers. (sticking to a playstyle pays off)
Phoenix has done so many things right. The players are there, the desire for real RvR is there. We're not looking for fluff, but a place where we feel rewarded for our own way of participating and protecting our realm.
Lastly, even if this post seemed like a horrible idea to you, I would like to propose to reinstall the keep take realm wide notification horn sound and at least 5 lines of chat marking the keeptake instead of the current one line without further notification.
See you on the battlefield!
More ideas and examples below.
I've worked out a new approach for stimulating RvR in this post. It's long and not perfect by any means. However, I hope this can offer some inspiration and maybe considerable ideas for the future.
Let's start with our current situation. The implementation of the new task system communicates a few things to me as a player;
- the staff is very much on the ball (wink) when it comes to RvR participation and are committed to make it work
- the staff has a pool of creativity they can tap into and aren't shy of experimental implementation for the cause
- the overall intentions and care of the staff for RvR action and the server as a whole is tremendous
However, it also shows that while the staff is engaged and eager to tinker to make it work, there really is no real overarching vision from which changes are being made. It seems to me that the eagerness clouds a broader practical perspective.
My suggestion is this; definitely keep brainstorming fun and fresh RvR ideas and list them up. However, seperate the short from the long term ideas.
A lot of fresh additions only remain fun for so long and are really only worthwhile during events. Long term stability of RvR dynamics require more delicate and subtle measures that perhaps lack fluff, but yet provide powerful sustained fun.
Making the distinction between refreshing ideas and core stability could be helpful in progressing the server on both fronts. I think people would certainly appreciate refreshing events once in a while, but the core stability of RvR on a daily basis is the lifeline of the server as a whole.
That being said, let's talk about the core stability of RvR.
(I'm just laying out my own thinking process here because I think it could provide an efficient analytical approach for anyone to adopt when considering RvR improvements.)
A good place to start is to simply ask what we want the perfect system to achieve. What is the goal? Maximum amount of players in 1 zone? Maximum amount of players in one of the three frontiers? How about long term server population stability? Reasonable time to action for smallman, solo and fgs/zergs? Change of scenery? Minigames? Maximum zerging? Keepfights? All of the above?
It's a simple question without a straightforward answer. Think about how you would answer this.
My guess is that we want a long term RvR system that:
- stays minimalistic yet effective
- supports all types of gameplay
- considers time to action for all playstyles
- works organically with the natural flow of the map and the desired playstyle, ie just 'feels' right
- prevents task from shaping the playstyle, but rather allows the playstyle to shape the task
The next step is to come up with practical implementations that will bring to life the goals above.
Let me start by saying that I am a big fan of the personal tasks. The permanently active little boosts here and there are a fun addition, both for PvE and PvP. I think it's great and we should go down that road even further.
Let me elaborate.
As mentioned above, I would like the RvR system to focus primarily on supporting the playstyle that the player prefers instead of enticing them to play in a manner they would never opt for if it wasn't so rewarding through the task system.
Before going further into this I would like to propose an upgrade and tweaking of the Phoenix Claws. The amount of Claws dropped from a Caravan should increase to about 5 per horse and for keeplords it should scale with the level of the keep. After all, a higher level keep has had plenty of horses pumped into it.
At the same time, I would like to propose a few new buying options:
- Recharging stones
- Playstyle-specific task reward boost
- Porting stone to friendly keep (1 use)
- Porting stone to alliance keep (3 uses)
- Porting stone to guild keep (5 uses)
(cant port to a keep under attack)
Going further, my suggestion is to overhaul the system and remove the specific server wide active task system as we know it today. There would be no realm specificity with the changes I propose below.
Instead, I would focus completely on the passive personal tasks, but make them dynamically interactive with the player's playstyle. This means that by RvRing in a certain way, you will trigger a task-chain that is catered specifically to the RvR style that you chose. These playstyle based tasks reward Phoenix Claws on every level of completion. The higher levels of these tasks will also grant Phoenix Feathers. You can have several playstyle-specific tasks running at once, yet only the higher levels reward Feathers. Also, killing more players than the number of players in your grp without going out of RvR combat earns additional credit.
Let's work it out.
Soloers; you are a soloer hunting xpers. Killing your first XPer (or dying to one) will unlock a new playstyle-specific task-chain that rewards you for doing exactly that; killing enemies that have been recently engaged in PvE combat or are under 50. At the same time, you are marked as a high-threat target to all enemy xpers and will grant increasingly more XP and Gold reward when they kill you.
Similarly, killing gankers as an xper will start a task-chain that rewards you for interweaving PvE with the occasional RvR kill or death. For instance a scaling bonus in frontiers xp, rog drops and unlocking feather drops for lvl 50+ mobs. Also, a new concept of 'marking' an invading ganker as an xper using a command that puts a message in /region could give you credit for this task. For instance /region [number] [realm of invaders] [zone]. It only works when you have effectively clicked one of their names.
For a soloer hunting other 50s, a task-chain will start that is based on the amount of players you kill solo before dying with seriously incremental rewards.
For a smallman, a task-chain will start that rewards you for covering distance and roaming. More distance covered in between kills earns more credit.
For a fullgroup, a task-chain will start that earns you credit for killing enemy players near the most commonly traversed routes by fullgroups of the frontiers (I would love to see a heatmap of the RvR zones if anyone has the skils to make one, but I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for the devs to implement the credit system just by looking at every day action). You are also rewarded extra for staying in RvR combat longer whenever you are fighting an equal or higher number of players.
Alternatively, you are rewarded even more credit for taking a keep and the fights in which the keep is located during and after the keeptake. This bonus credit for fighting in the keep radius lasts 60 minutes for a non claimed keep but is permanent for every group who has a member of the guild who owns the keep. The bonus is also permanent, but less strong if one of your groupmembers is in the alliance of the guild who owns the keep.
For battlegroups, a task-chain is started once you defend or attack a keep. You earn credit through keepfights and will earn a massive bonus (feathers, claws and gold) for conquering DF. Conquering DF will unlock a task-chain that will grant the next massive reward for capturing a Relic. The keep vicinity bonus based on guilds and alliance also applies to BGs.
For Defenders, every keep owned that is taken in succession (1 hr timer?) will incrementally increase the amount of credit earned in a defensive BG, with the ultimate bonus being a succesful Relic Defense should it ever come to that.
Lastly, I would like to propose a new, voluntary task mechanic. After engaging into combat with an enemy player, you will be able to talk to an NPC in the home border keeps. He will allow you to chose a 'personal' task that allows you to pick any of the names of the players who have attacked you in the last 6 hours and start a task-chain that earns credit specifically for fighting this particular player. Alternatively, you can broaden your aim and choose the guilds these players are in. In this case you will earn less credit as you will have more targets to choose from.
When someone marks you as their prey, you will be notified on every character, even if you relogged. Of course a guild will also be notified.
All of the above will reward playstyles that were already decided on by players, but didn't align with the task system before.
Additionally, all playstyles are similarly rewarded for their specific yet natural aims. Keeps have now real significance even for 8mans (claim a keep, defend your zone, get marked..). Taking DF will actually be worth it in and of itself. Relic raids, and more specifically relic defenses will gain increasingly more significance.
All tasks should obviously drop gold and xp as a minimum. Rp reward for tasks should be minimal. Focus should be on claws and eventually feathers. (sticking to a playstyle pays off)
Phoenix has done so many things right. The players are there, the desire for real RvR is there. We're not looking for fluff, but a place where we feel rewarded for our own way of participating and protecting our realm.
Lastly, even if this post seemed like a horrible idea to you, I would like to propose to reinstall the keep take realm wide notification horn sound and at least 5 lines of chat marking the keeptake instead of the current one line without further notification.
See you on the battlefield!