The force is strong tonight <3
Rhoxie
Rhoxie
Alb stealth Zerg
Started 25 Mar 2019
by
Rhox
in
RvR
Mon 25 Mar 2019 4:13 AM
by
djegu
Tonight ? You must be a low RR stealther who just discovered the current state of stealth zerg in Phoenix...
Mon 25 Mar 2019 4:53 AM
by
Rhox
Lol kinda just started to play a hunter but soloed on a BD till RR5ish. Tonight it was a little crazy with 1.5 FG camping PK. It was fun though especially with the 4 RR6+ lol
Mon 25 Mar 2019 7:29 AM
by
inoeth
yeah and no counter to that...
Mon 25 Mar 2019 11:58 AM
by
Warlay
I'm sure it's just the beginning, will be a lot worse after a while the server is up
Mon 25 Mar 2019 1:05 PM
by
dbeattie71
Stealth Lore?
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:11 AM
by
Sepplord
because MOS detection will somehow lower stealthzerg-effectiveness??
Doesn't it shoehorn even more solo/duo stealths into the safety of a group/zerg?
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:13 AM
by
Ceen
Yes since any grp can invite a MoS bot to wipe out the stealth zerg if it's too muchSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:11 AM
because MOS detection will somehow lower stealthzerg-effectiveness??
Doesn't it shoehorn even more solo/duo stealths into the safety of a group/zerg?
Right now no one will ever be able to wipe a stealth zerg since you simple won't find them.
Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:28 AM
by
Sepplord
Ceen wrote: ↑Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:13 AMYes since any grp can invite a MoS bot to wipe out the stealth zerg if it's too muchSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:11 AMCeen wrote: ↑Mon 25 Mar 2019 12:18 PMWell the staff was asking for this stuff ^^
Can't find anyone without MoS RA.
Just reset stealth game to live version.
because MOS detection will somehow lower stealthzerg-effectiveness??
Doesn't it shoehorn even more solo/duo stealths into the safety of a group/zerg?
Right now no one will ever be able to wipe a stealth zerg since you simple won't find them.
but as a solo i get wiped out by grps with mos bots just as much as the stealthzergs...but inside the zerg i at least get a little safety VS other stealthzergs. In stealthzergs it's also possible to have a few MOS-Bots to uncover everyone else, and have the rest with combat-RAs...while the solo is shoehorned into a bit of MOS to stay competitive and loses out on combat-strength.
MOS helps visibles VS stealth-zergs but doesn't overall decrease stealthzerg effectiveness
Tue 26 Mar 2019 10:32 AM
by
inoeth
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:28 AMCeen wrote: ↑Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:13 AMYes since any grp can invite a MoS bot to wipe out the stealth zerg if it's too muchSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 26 Mar 2019 8:11 AMbecause MOS detection will somehow lower stealthzerg-effectiveness??
Doesn't it shoehorn even more solo/duo stealths into the safety of a group/zerg?
Right now no one will ever be able to wipe a stealth zerg since you simple won't find them.
but as a solo i get wiped out by grps with mos bots just as much as the stealthzergs...but inside the zerg i at least get a little safety VS other stealthzergs. In stealthzergs it's also possible to have a few MOS-Bots to uncover everyone else, and have the rest with combat-RAs...while the solo is shoehorned into a bit of MOS to stay competitive and loses out on combat-strength.
MOS helps visibles VS stealth-zergs but doesn't overall decrease stealthzerg effectiveness
thats why camuflage is needed too
Tue 26 Mar 2019 2:30 PM
by
cere2
What did anyone expect?
Sorry but playing as a ranger, it is so annoying to always eat a PA from sin's. It's just simply unavoidable most times.
No reason a sin should always start a battle vs archer with a PA. Just like archer shouldn't be able to crit shot a sin before they see the archer.
But that is essentially what sin's are getting every time. A free crit-shot vs archer at begging of battle.
So either I'm going to run with an NS in front or I can join up in a stealth group. (yay)
Yes, there will always be stealth groups. But unless something is done about this ridiculous detection range difference, your going to have more groups because people get pushed away from solo game when they are always at a disadvantage.
Sorry but playing as a ranger, it is so annoying to always eat a PA from sin's. It's just simply unavoidable most times.
No reason a sin should always start a battle vs archer with a PA. Just like archer shouldn't be able to crit shot a sin before they see the archer.
But that is essentially what sin's are getting every time. A free crit-shot vs archer at begging of battle.
So either I'm going to run with an NS in front or I can join up in a stealth group. (yay)
Yes, there will always be stealth groups. But unless something is done about this ridiculous detection range difference, your going to have more groups because people get pushed away from solo game when they are always at a disadvantage.
Tue 26 Mar 2019 2:50 PM
by
Dominus
well said Cere2. I think equalizing stealth detection among archers/assassins would go a long way. I'm still trying to figure out why Sins are afford such a huge advantage over archers in this area.
Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:10 PM
by
Tillbeast
Said from week 1 that the stealth zerg will happen just 100% to protect archers from assassins. This force assassins to group up so to avoid half a dozen in the backs and it becomes a viscous circle....archers grouping to protect from lone assassin and lone assassins then grouping up to defend from the team of archers. However its not only down to the loss of MoS and an assassin superior detect range its just the nature of how Pheonix works by clumping everyone together. You cant throw a stone in the rvr task zones these days without stone landing on poor stealthers head.
Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:17 PM
by
cere2
Tillbeast wrote: ↑Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:10 PMSaid from week 1 that the stealth zerg will happen just 100% to protect archers from assassins. This force assassins to group up so to avoid half a dozen in the backs and it becomes a viscous circle....archers grouping to protect from lone assassin and lone assassins then grouping up to defend from the team of archers. However its not only down to the loss of MoS and an assassin superior detect range its just the nature of how Pheonix works by clumping everyone together. You cant throw a stone in the rvr task zones these days without stone landing on poor stealthers head.
I agree that it wouldn't solve all stealth groups, but making detection same range would definitely help me from needing to join groups just to avoid PA.
And, if it would help me, perhaps other archers would consider solo as well.
Just to note, I know there are some archers that solo. "Most" are assassin hunters because they spec full melee. IP4 Purge 4 etc. Even talking to these guys they still take losses to same rr sin's for the same reason. PA unavoidable. And if purge is down, they can essentially unstyle kill you with poisons alone.
Wed 27 Mar 2019 3:32 PM
by
longrb
Thu 28 Mar 2019 9:04 PM
by
Dariussdars
I don't seem to ever see or hear about any Mid or Hib stealth zergs running, so what stealth zergs are the Alb's forming up against?
Pretty much every single one of the Alb stealth zerglings absolutely sucks at RvR, hence the need to zerg it up. Strange seeing a RR7 Minstrel with 4-7 other friends
do nothing but camp solos who run from SF to Fens, or camp the snow turn in and repeat the same laughable playstyle.
Keep it up and kill RvR for any other solos or duos who try to come out and play.
Pretty much every single one of the Alb stealth zerglings absolutely sucks at RvR, hence the need to zerg it up. Strange seeing a RR7 Minstrel with 4-7 other friends
do nothing but camp solos who run from SF to Fens, or camp the snow turn in and repeat the same laughable playstyle.
Keep it up and kill RvR for any other solos or duos who try to come out and play.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 2:23 AM
by
Rhox
Dariussdars wrote: ↑Thu 28 Mar 2019 9:04 PMI don't seem to ever see or hear about any Mid or Hib stealth zergs running, so what stealth zergs are the Alb's forming up against?
Pretty much every single one of the Alb stealth zerglings absolutely sucks at RvR, hence the need to zerg it up. Strange seeing a RR7 Minstrel with 4-7 other friends
do nothing but camp solos who run from SF to Fens, or camp the snow turn in and repeat the same laughable playstyle.
Keep it up and kill RvR for any other solos or duos who try to come out and play.
I just ran into the RR7 Minstrel and his 5 buddies...It makes me sad because I always get so excited about a good challenge then mindless zerg hits me.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 5:34 AM
by
AngelRose
1. have two different type of archetype stealthers
2. give one a HUGE detection bonus, thus a giant advantage
3. archers group up
I am shocked, i tell you. Shocked
2. give one a HUGE detection bonus, thus a giant advantage
3. archers group up
I am shocked, i tell you. Shocked
Fri 29 Mar 2019 5:36 AM
by
jelzinga_EU
Dominus wrote: ↑Tue 26 Mar 2019 2:50 PMwell said Cere2. I think equalizing stealth detection among archers/assassins would go a long way. I'm still trying to figure out why Sins are afford such a huge advantage over archers in this area.
I think it's pretty optimistic to assume stealth-zergs will vanish when detection is changed. In fact, most of the stealthers who zerg do this for a couple of reasons:
a) Enjoy playing together.
b) Getting frustrated due to getting killed by larger numbers, outskilled, outRR'ed
Players who enjoy playing together will not change their behavior when detection is changed. Players who are simply not good enough to win fights will still get frustrated and will still team up.
Furthermore, in Albion scouts have an option to spec shield and MoBlock to reach 50%+ avoidance. This defense (and lack of melee-offense if you still spec Archery high) almost promotes stealth-zerging. Essentially they spec for doing good damage when not in melee and in melee live long enough for their buddies (who do the same) to kill their enemies. Add a minstrel to the mix and you can take on greater numbers and even if you do eat a perf not die due to high enough defense meaning his buddies will kill the enemy before he dies.
If you increase detection-range for those guys do you honestly think they will solo ? They keep their spec the same, group-composition the same and suddenly they can even avoid perfs and more aggressively seek out other stealthers. It doesn't change the meta for most scouts and it certainly will not change how they think about grouping up with friends and being effective.
Personally I can't blame them, it is effective and if you enjoy playing with friends it's a very viable way to get in some kills.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 5:41 AM
by
AngelRose
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Fri 29 Mar 2019 5:36 AMDominus wrote: ↑Tue 26 Mar 2019 2:50 PMwell said Cere2. I think equalizing stealth detection among archers/assassins would go a long way. I'm still trying to figure out why Sins are afford such a huge advantage over archers in this area.
I think it's pretty optimistic to assume stealth-zergs will vanish when detection is changed. In fact, most of the stealthers who zerg do this for a couple of reasons:
a) Enjoy playing together.
b) Getting frustrated due to getting killed by larger numbers, outskilled, outRR'ed
Players who enjoy playing together will not change their behavior when detection is changed. Players who are simply not good enough to win fights will still get frustrated and will still team up.
Furthermore, in Albion scouts have an option to spec shield and MoBlock to reach 50%+ avoidance. This defense (and lack of melee-offense if you still spec Archery high) almost promotes stealth-zerging. Essentially they spec for doing good damage when not in melee and in melee live long enough for their buddies (who do the same) to kill their enemies. Add a minstrel to the mix and you can take on greater numbers and even if you do eat a perf not die due to high enough defense meaning his buddies will kill the enemy before he dies.
If you increase detection-range for those guys do you honestly think they will solo ? They keep their spec the same, group-composition the same and suddenly they can even avoid perfs and more aggressively seek out other stealthers. It doesn't change the meta for most scouts and it certainly will not change how they think about grouping up with friends and being effective.
Personally I can't blame them, it is effective and if you enjoy playing with friends it's a very viable way to get in some kills.
Yes, there will always be stealthers that group. But, I enjoy playing archers. I only want to solo. Currently, with the bow spec gimped and with the combination of sin stealth detection, there is not a place for me on this server. Though I am a minority, I am probably not the only one.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 6:35 AM
by
jelzinga_EU
AngelRose wrote: ↑Fri 29 Mar 2019 5:41 AMYes, there will always be stealthers that group. But, I enjoy playing archers. I only want to solo. Currently, with the bow spec gimped and with the combination of sin stealth detection, there is not a place for me on this server. Though I am a minority, I am probably not the only one.
Sure there are more like you. The problem with archers isn't stealth-detection on its own, it's lack of viable targets for archery. Shield-spec, bladeturn, and very little solo visibles means the only thing viable is the remainder: enemy stealthers.
Obviously you can focus on making you more viable against enemy stealthers, but eventually that is just a race to the bottom because whenever you get a buff, they do too as you stay limited to other stealthers.
Fixing archery doesn't mean buffing detection. I thought that initially too, but it is not the solution at all - as it will once again push stealthers in their own separate world, mostly interacting with eachother and only getting bothered by visibles who just kill them.
The solution to archers is drastically improving their performance against visibles. Make penetrating arrow go through BT. Remove the shield-bonus to arrows. Remove engage being a 100% chance to block arrows. Basically everything to give archers viable targets in the visibles.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 6:40 AM
by
Druth
1) lol at people arguing they setalth zerg because their class is weak. People zerg because it's easy/comfortable rps/wins. Even if archers hit for 500+ on rapid fire and could open with crit for 1000+ that bypassed everything, they'd still zerg using the "I play with friends" excuse.
2) Just like in Beta, people zerg saying they do it to counter X (assassins here), and end up mainly killing visible soloers.
This is why keeping stealthers weak is beneficial for the game, because they'll zerg no matter what, so might as well keep them relatively weak so people can at the very least kill one of them. Unless of course more stealth detection is added.
2) Just like in Beta, people zerg saying they do it to counter X (assassins here), and end up mainly killing visible soloers.
This is why keeping stealthers weak is beneficial for the game, because they'll zerg no matter what, so might as well keep them relatively weak so people can at the very least kill one of them. Unless of course more stealth detection is added.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 7:15 AM
by
qq6
Hello alb stealth zerg! i like you!
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:29 AM
by
jelzinga_EU
Druth wrote: ↑Fri 29 Mar 2019 6:40 AM1) lol at people arguing they setalth zerg because their class is weak. People zerg because it's easy/comfortable rps/wins. Even if archers hit for 500+ on rapid fire and could open with crit for 1000+ that bypassed everything, they'd still zerg using the "I play with friends" excuse.
2) Just like in Beta, people zerg saying they do it to counter X (assassins here), and end up mainly killing visible soloers.
This is why keeping stealthers weak is beneficial for the game, because they'll zerg no matter what, so might as well keep them relatively weak so people can at the very least kill one of them. Unless of course more stealth detection is added.
While that might suit you (and a lot of other players) it limits people who want to play stealthers tremendously. While I agree that approach might work reasonably well (from a visible PoV) the argument can easily be extended to loads of other classes too.
Archers (and assassins) are classes who are designed to pick on the back-line, quickly taking out a caster while his group is pre-occupied. This "adding" is often considered annoying and frustrating for the victims, but it is how those classes are designed. They are inherently weak compared to group-classes and due to stealth-mechanics do not really group well with visibles. As a result they often end up fighting each other relatively often.
There should be a reasonable trade-off between group-viability and "solo strength". Just make a class extremely weak for the sake of "then at least we can kill 1" is quite a backwards approach. Just lastnight I got caught in an AoE-DoT from a wizard which ticked for 170 + 75 crit. This is with 1 cast 1200+ dmg to me, can be spammed and is AoE. People should consider this before complaining a single crit-shot doing 750 damage on them, comes with an artificial 20 sec CD and is coming from a class who isn't groupfriendly.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:48 AM
by
Druth
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:29 AM
While that might suit you (and a lot of other players) it limits people who want to play stealthers tremendously. While I agree that approach might work reasonably well (from a visible PoV) the argument can easily be extended to loads of other classes too.
Archers (and assassins) are classes who are designed to pick on the back-line, quickly taking out a caster while his group is pre-occupied. This "adding" is often considered annoying and frustrating for the victims, but it is how those classes are designed. They are inherently weak compared to group-classes and due to stealth-mechanics do not really group well with visibles. As a result they often end up fighting each other relatively often.
There should be a reasonable trade-off between group-viability and "solo strength". Just make a class extremely weak for the sake of "then at least we can kill 1" is quite a backwards approach. Just lastnight I got caught in an AoE-DoT from a wizard which ticked for 170 + 75 crit. This is with 1 cast 1200+ dmg to me, can be spammed and is AoE. People should consider this before complaining a single crit-shot doing 750 damage on them, comes with an artificial 20 sec CD and is coming from a class who isn't groupfriendly.
Note my last bit. The difference between your stealth char, and the wizard, is stealth which here is near invisibility.
I have no problem with stealth zergs, or strong stealthers. I have a problem with a broken stealth system.
Anyway, the discussion is age old, and has no winners.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 3:32 PM
by
cere2
For myself, I'm just shelving my ranger for now. Just not the type of game-play I was looking for. My main has been a ranger since the beginning, but I never remember having to deal with this. For myself it's either I go out with purge up and purge after creeping death, or don't even go out until purge is up period. Even after I purge I am typically at 50% or lower health, and haven't even touched my opponent. To myself this is just a ridiculous way to play as an archer. Should I make a new Shar ranger and spec full blades/cd? I could, but wouldn't feel like an archer class to me at that point. When they fix this detection range so I can avoid a PA and possibly have a chance to land a snare or side style etc to get some range to use bow, I'll be back.
Until then I'll be heading to Mid and leveling up a new BD for farming and then maybe a Thane or Skald.
Cere
Until then I'll be heading to Mid and leveling up a new BD for farming and then maybe a Thane or Skald.
Cere
Fri 29 Mar 2019 4:04 PM
by
jelzinga_EU
cere2 wrote: ↑Fri 29 Mar 2019 3:32 PMWhen they fix this detection range so I can avoid a PA and possibly have a chance to land a snare or side style etc to get some range to use bow, I'll be back.
tbh I understand. With the custom change here they adjusted run-speed but not detection-range accordingly. It just ends up with a situation that people move faster - but not detect faster for archers. The detection-range between assassin and archer isn't bigger than it was on live, but people move faster in stealth, so your time-window to act and avoid the perf is reduced too much.
That and the removal of PD/AP hurts archers tremendously.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 5:45 PM
by
qq6
cere2 wrote: ↑Fri 29 Mar 2019 3:32 PMFor myself, I'm just shelving my ranger for now. Just not the type of game-play I was looking for. My main has been a ranger since the beginning, but I never remember having to deal with this. For myself it's either I go out with purge up and purge after creeping death, or don't even go out until purge is up period. Even after I purge I am typically at 50% or lower health, and haven't even touched my opponent. To myself this is just a ridiculous way to play as an archer. Should I make a new Shar ranger and spec full blades/cd? I could, but wouldn't feel like an archer class to me at that point. When they fix this detection range so I can avoid a PA and possibly have a chance to land a snare or side style etc to get some range to use bow, I'll be back.
Until then I'll be heading to Mid and leveling up a new BD for farming and then maybe a Thane or Skald.
Cere
How are you getting PA'd all the time and i dont? I mean that, when i am in stealth 99% i dont get PA'd, only when i run visi i get hit, and even then not 100%, some do miss. This increased vision range for assassins, doesnt really do that much for them, ye they see you a tiny bit faster, but its measuered in ms... unless u just stand there idle all the time. You are luri, full bow? bow RAs? How do you play, do you stand in 1 spot all the time? In what situations are u getting PAd so much?
Most of my fights vs assassins i end up making the first hit in melee, are you even trying to hit them first, or do you just stand with ur bow?
Fri 29 Mar 2019 7:00 PM
by
phixion
cere2 wrote: ↑Fri 29 Mar 2019 3:32 PMFor myself, I'm just shelving my ranger for now. Just not the type of game-play I was looking for. My main has been a ranger since the beginning, but I never remember having to deal with this. For myself it's either I go out with purge up and purge after creeping death, or don't even go out until purge is up period. Even after I purge I am typically at 50% or lower health, and haven't even touched my opponent. To myself this is just a ridiculous way to play as an archer. Should I make a new Shar ranger and spec full blades/cd? I could, but wouldn't feel like an archer class to me at that point. When they fix this detection range so I can avoid a PA and possibly have a chance to land a snare or side style etc to get some range to use bow, I'll be back.
Until then I'll be heading to Mid and leveling up a new BD for farming and then maybe a Thane or Skald.
Cere
Race respecs are inc, if I was you respec to Shar immediately and go full melee. No reason to be a bow Ranger anymore, Melee Rangers are OP.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 8:04 PM
by
cere2
qq6 wrote: ↑Fri 29 Mar 2019 5:45 PMcere2 wrote: ↑Fri 29 Mar 2019 3:32 PMFor myself, I'm just shelving my ranger for now. Just not the type of game-play I was looking for. My main has been a ranger since the beginning, but I never remember having to deal with this. For myself it's either I go out with purge up and purge after creeping death, or don't even go out until purge is up period. Even after I purge I am typically at 50% or lower health, and haven't even touched my opponent. To myself this is just a ridiculous way to play as an archer. Should I make a new Shar ranger and spec full blades/cd? I could, but wouldn't feel like an archer class to me at that point. When they fix this detection range so I can avoid a PA and possibly have a chance to land a snare or side style etc to get some range to use bow, I'll be back.
Until then I'll be heading to Mid and leveling up a new BD for farming and then maybe a Thane or Skald.
Cere
How are you getting PA'd all the time and i dont? I mean that, when i am in stealth 99% i dont get PA'd, only when i run visi i get hit, and even then not 100%, some do miss. This increased vision range for assassins, doesnt really do that much for them, ye they see you a tiny bit faster, but its measuered in ms... unless u just stand there idle all the time. You are luri, full bow? bow RAs? How do you play, do you stand in 1 spot all the time? In what situations are u getting PAd so much?
Most of my fights vs assassins i end up making the first hit in melee, are you even trying to hit them first, or do you just stand with ur bow?
Well apparently we are playing 2 different classes. I get PA'd quite often when walking in stealth pretty much whenever I try to go from HPK to HMG. After that it's kind of hit or miss but still take some PA's out in open field. Id say I take a PA 60% of the time. Once in a while I get a quick flash and can throw out a style to pop them before they get a position, but that is usually because they are moving to get either behind me or in front of me and they don't get there fast enough. The detection range difference is not measured in ms....You play a ns or inf or sb and see the difference.
Pretty ez to verify what Im saying too. Watch some inf videos posted in videos section. Watch how much time they have to position a PA vs archers. It's almost laughable. Either way, the way it is set up right now is just ridiculous. Easiest fix is to just make both 250 range. Archer doesn't have enough time to crit shot, sin doesn't get free PA. Until that is changed I'll just bag it or make another sin myself.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 8:13 PM
by
djegu
Don't want to dismiss what you're saying but going from PK to MG stealthed is the best way to get wreck. Go with speed, unstealth and take a longer road a.k.a avoid going where you know you will get wrekt.
I go unstealthed almost all the time between PK and MG, I always try to take the unusual road and I never get PA'd. Only times i got wrekt it's when i go stealthed taking the road i know is infested by stealthers.
I'm always amused when people complain they burnt themselves while playing with fire. With Speed of Realm it's so easy to dodge stealther, be smarter than them.
I go unstealthed almost all the time between PK and MG, I always try to take the unusual road and I never get PA'd. Only times i got wrekt it's when i go stealthed taking the road i know is infested by stealthers.
I'm always amused when people complain they burnt themselves while playing with fire. With Speed of Realm it's so easy to dodge stealther, be smarter than them.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 8:52 PM
by
AngelRose
Where you run, what you play, how you play....is just a bunch of yadda yadda yadda.
Bottom line - there is absolutely no reason for sin detection to be 250 vs 150 archer. Until that is fixed, archer vs sin is horribly unbalanced.
Sins who need the crutch...don't bother with replying. Your excuses/justifications mean nothing.
Bottom line - there is absolutely no reason for sin detection to be 250 vs 150 archer. Until that is fixed, archer vs sin is horribly unbalanced.
Sins who need the crutch...don't bother with replying. Your excuses/justifications mean nothing.
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:49 PM
by
waffel
The problem is there is a lot of rangers, which means a lot of bad rangers. Those that run from PK to MG straight and get perfd. Those that only go to task realms and stand around in high traffic areas where sins are. Those that stand around MGs waiting for action and get perfed when nobody is around. Just overall trash play.
It assassins are wrecking you, stop going where they are. Unless you’re a higher RR, or are shar+blades and specced for assassins, stop feeding them. It’s on YOU to stop getting wrecked, not the devs.
I, personally, avoid the task realm because it’s where everyone is. A solo archer has no fun in zerg vs zerg because you spend all your time ungrouped running around , or (god forbid) porting to a flag and walking in circles in the open field zones looking for someone to solo. Since I’ve started doing that, my fun level has skyrocketed and so have my enjoyable 1v1s
But, 99% of people just braindead lemming from task zone to task zone, porting around and following the zerg. Stop playing bad.
It assassins are wrecking you, stop going where they are. Unless you’re a higher RR, or are shar+blades and specced for assassins, stop feeding them. It’s on YOU to stop getting wrecked, not the devs.
I, personally, avoid the task realm because it’s where everyone is. A solo archer has no fun in zerg vs zerg because you spend all your time ungrouped running around , or (god forbid) porting to a flag and walking in circles in the open field zones looking for someone to solo. Since I’ve started doing that, my fun level has skyrocketed and so have my enjoyable 1v1s
But, 99% of people just braindead lemming from task zone to task zone, porting around and following the zerg. Stop playing bad.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 4:04 AM
by
qq6
Look, it just sounds like you personally dont like something and cant adapt in any another way.
People are giving you other options, but you refuse to look at them, and just keep on going about the stealth detection range and how unfair it is. You arent specced to fight assassins or survive them, yet you choose to literally run into their primary killing spots. Dont go there, go fight in other places like Fed said. Or just roll mid, cos you cant handle it here, but you'll learn pretty fast that your thane and/or skald/bd will get those same PA's if you keep doing what you are doing now.
People are giving you other options, but you refuse to look at them, and just keep on going about the stealth detection range and how unfair it is. You arent specced to fight assassins or survive them, yet you choose to literally run into their primary killing spots. Dont go there, go fight in other places like Fed said. Or just roll mid, cos you cant handle it here, but you'll learn pretty fast that your thane and/or skald/bd will get those same PA's if you keep doing what you are doing now.
Sat 30 Mar 2019 4:35 AM
by
dbeattie71
AngelRose wrote: ↑Fri 29 Mar 2019 8:52 PMWhere you run, what you play, how you play....is just a bunch of yadda yadda yadda.
Bottom line - there is absolutely no reason for sin detection to be 250 vs 150 archer. Until that is fixed, archer vs sin is horribly unbalanced.
Sins who need the crutch...don't bother with replying. Your excuses/justifications mean nothing.
I made a Ranger and will probably play it over my shade. I built it for sin hunting. I got discouraged a bit on the way to 50 but now that he's 50 I'm glad I stuck with it. I used the bow for leveling but won't put any points in it when I respec at RR4. I had higher bow for a while but after having everything blocked or missing, I threw it in the trash. That's probably a problem that needs addressed. Hunters need something, I don't know what but when I fight a hunter I feel like I should remove some armor or something to even it out :O
Sat 30 Mar 2019 6:20 PM
by
Tillbeast
A common argument by those in favour of the better stealth detection is....don't hunt in the same areas as assassins and to try avoid high assassin traffic areas.
Its brilliant advice, following this advice your chance to running into a PA is reduced by 100% garaunteed. Your chance of dieing at the hands of an enemy stealther is also drastically reduced as is your chance of dieing by a visible is heavily reduced just don't rvr where other players are. Sarcasm aside the game bunches up everyone into the rvr task zone and the frontier zone with the pks. It does not matter where you go in those zones you cannot avoid assassins as an archer. Now if the tasks were separated over lot bigger areas this spreads the assassins out and the advantage assassins have over archers with regard stealth detection is heavily reduced. Unfortunately assassins and archers prey on similar prey, clothe casters. Assassins like to surprise them in choke points and archers like to restrict the casters ability to manoeuvre out of range. Milegates are the best spot for both classes to get there kills the easiest way. It is much easily for a caster to run out of an archers range in the open field flag areas (not impossible for an archer to get a kill but difficult).
Yes you can move in wider circles to try avoid the assassins near the pks but at some point you have to go through that milegate. Admittedly the traffic is normally high enough to run through with a visible group but sometimes that's not an option and an archer is a sitting duck until someone appears to run through with. However once through the milegate what does the archer hunt? Any solo caster coming through a gate is going to get killed by assassins. Only small gangs, 8 mans and the zerg will be found in the frontier or rvr task zones. An archer has to come into an assassins territory because that is where its rps. An assassin has the option (risky one) of jumping a member of a small man or an 8 man quickly killing them and then vanishing. An archer does not have the burst dps too do that.
It is getting more and more common place to see stealth zergs made of both archers and assassins and they make some styles of play unplayable...try solo caster with all the stealthers about and it is even getting more and more difficult to play a solo assassin. The game needs to be spread out with different tasks in different realms just to spread out the players. Having all the active assassins camping two zones makes it impossible for archers to avoid and to get any kills but if all 3 realms frontier zones and other areas has tasks this will give archers more room to move about. Although the detection disadvantage hurts it will be heavily reduced just by the fact there will be less assassins in each zone.
Its brilliant advice, following this advice your chance to running into a PA is reduced by 100% garaunteed. Your chance of dieing at the hands of an enemy stealther is also drastically reduced as is your chance of dieing by a visible is heavily reduced just don't rvr where other players are. Sarcasm aside the game bunches up everyone into the rvr task zone and the frontier zone with the pks. It does not matter where you go in those zones you cannot avoid assassins as an archer. Now if the tasks were separated over lot bigger areas this spreads the assassins out and the advantage assassins have over archers with regard stealth detection is heavily reduced. Unfortunately assassins and archers prey on similar prey, clothe casters. Assassins like to surprise them in choke points and archers like to restrict the casters ability to manoeuvre out of range. Milegates are the best spot for both classes to get there kills the easiest way. It is much easily for a caster to run out of an archers range in the open field flag areas (not impossible for an archer to get a kill but difficult).
Yes you can move in wider circles to try avoid the assassins near the pks but at some point you have to go through that milegate. Admittedly the traffic is normally high enough to run through with a visible group but sometimes that's not an option and an archer is a sitting duck until someone appears to run through with. However once through the milegate what does the archer hunt? Any solo caster coming through a gate is going to get killed by assassins. Only small gangs, 8 mans and the zerg will be found in the frontier or rvr task zones. An archer has to come into an assassins territory because that is where its rps. An assassin has the option (risky one) of jumping a member of a small man or an 8 man quickly killing them and then vanishing. An archer does not have the burst dps too do that.
It is getting more and more common place to see stealth zergs made of both archers and assassins and they make some styles of play unplayable...try solo caster with all the stealthers about and it is even getting more and more difficult to play a solo assassin. The game needs to be spread out with different tasks in different realms just to spread out the players. Having all the active assassins camping two zones makes it impossible for archers to avoid and to get any kills but if all 3 realms frontier zones and other areas has tasks this will give archers more room to move about. Although the detection disadvantage hurts it will be heavily reduced just by the fact there will be less assassins in each zone.
Sun 31 Mar 2019 3:16 PM
by
Dariussdars
Tillbeast wrote: ↑Sat 30 Mar 2019 6:20 PMA common argument by those in favour of the better stealth detection is....don't hunt in the same areas as assassins and to try avoid high assassin traffic areas.
Its brilliant advice, following this advice your chance to running into a PA is reduced by 100% garaunteed. Your chance of dieing at the hands of an enemy stealther is also drastically reduced as is your chance of dieing by a visible is heavily reduced just don't rvr where other players are. Sarcasm aside the game bunches up everyone into the rvr task zone and the frontier zone with the pks. It does not matter where you go in those zones you cannot avoid assassins as an archer. Now if the tasks were separated over lot bigger areas this spreads the assassins out and the advantage assassins have over archers with regard stealth detection is heavily reduced. Unfortunately assassins and archers prey on similar prey, clothe casters. Assassins like to surprise them in choke points and archers like to restrict the casters ability to manoeuvre out of range. Milegates are the best spot for both classes to get there kills the easiest way. It is much easily for a caster to run out of an archers range in the open field flag areas (not impossible for an archer to get a kill but difficult).
Yes you can move in wider circles to try avoid the assassins near the pks but at some point you have to go through that milegate. Admittedly the traffic is normally high enough to run through with a visible group but sometimes that's not an option and an archer is a sitting duck until someone appears to run through with. However once through the milegate what does the archer hunt? Any solo caster coming through a gate is going to get killed by assassins. Only small gangs, 8 mans and the zerg will be found in the frontier or rvr task zones. An archer has to come into an assassins territory because that is where its rps. An assassin has the option (risky one) of jumping a member of a small man or an 8 man quickly killing them and then vanishing. An archer does not have the burst dps too do that.
It is getting more and more common place to see stealth zergs made of both archers and assassins and they make some styles of play unplayable...try solo caster with all the stealthers about and it is even getting more and more difficult to play a solo assassin. The game needs to be spread out with different tasks in different realms just to spread out the players. Having all the active assassins camping two zones makes it impossible for archers to avoid and to get any kills but if all 3 realms frontier zones and other areas has tasks this will give archers more room to move about. Although the detection disadvantage hurts it will be heavily reduced just by the fact there will be less assassins in each zone.
How about Mid and Hib team up to get rid of the Alb trash stealthers every time they zerg it up and camp solos? I will gladly attack every Alb stealther i see over any Hib.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 2:50 PM
by
cere2
Tillbeast wrote: ↑Sat 30 Mar 2019 6:20 PMA common argument by those in favour of the better stealth detection is....don't hunt in the same areas as assassins and to try avoid high assassin traffic areas.
Its brilliant advice, following this advice your chance to running into a PA is reduced by 100% garaunteed. Your chance of dieing at the hands of an enemy stealther is also drastically reduced as is your chance of dieing by a visible is heavily reduced just don't rvr where other players are. Sarcasm aside the game bunches up everyone into the rvr task zone and the frontier zone with the pks. It does not matter where you go in those zones you cannot avoid assassins as an archer. Now if the tasks were separated over lot bigger areas this spreads the assassins out and the advantage assassins have over archers with regard stealth detection is heavily reduced. Unfortunately assassins and archers prey on similar prey, clothe casters. Assassins like to surprise them in choke points and archers like to restrict the casters ability to manoeuvre out of range. Milegates are the best spot for both classes to get there kills the easiest way. It is much easily for a caster to run out of an archers range in the open field flag areas (not impossible for an archer to get a kill but difficult).
Yes you can move in wider circles to try avoid the assassins near the pks but at some point you have to go through that milegate. Admittedly the traffic is normally high enough to run through with a visible group but sometimes that's not an option and an archer is a sitting duck until someone appears to run through with. However once through the milegate what does the archer hunt? Any solo caster coming through a gate is going to get killed by assassins. Only small gangs, 8 mans and the zerg will be found in the frontier or rvr task zones. An archer has to come into an assassins territory because that is where its rps. An assassin has the option (risky one) of jumping a member of a small man or an 8 man quickly killing them and then vanishing. An archer does not have the burst dps too do that.
It is getting more and more common place to see stealth zergs made of both archers and assassins and they make some styles of play unplayable...try solo caster with all the stealthers about and it is even getting more and more difficult to play a solo assassin. The game needs to be spread out with different tasks in different realms just to spread out the players. Having all the active assassins camping two zones makes it impossible for archers to avoid and to get any kills but if all 3 realms frontier zones and other areas has tasks this will give archers more room to move about. Although the detection disadvantage hurts it will be heavily reduced just by the fact there will be less assassins in each zone.
This is exactly the deal currently. Yes I can avoid a PA if I loop way out in never-never land, but eventually I have to get within range of something to get rp's. Perhaps I can go out in never-never land and find some xp'ers or maybe a few solo's coming from a flag etc, but just getting to those places you need to go through a MG, or wait 20 mins to get a TP...no thanks.
And like I said earlier in post, yes I can make a shar melee only ranger. But then, why even go that route? Why not just make a blades NS? Point is, that's not what a ranger has been in the past and should not be pigeonholed into that for the future.
If the range was made 250 for both, are assassin's saying they now have no chance of winning? Just wondering what the issue is.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:37 PM
by
Mauriac
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Fri 29 Mar 2019 5:36 AMDominus wrote: ↑Tue 26 Mar 2019 2:50 PMwell said Cere2. I think equalizing stealth detection among archers/assassins would go a long way. I'm still trying to figure out why Sins are afford such a huge advantage over archers in this area.
I think it's pretty optimistic to assume stealth-zergs will vanish when detection is changed. In fact, most of the stealthers who zerg do this for a couple of reasons:
a) Enjoy playing together.
b) Getting frustrated due to getting killed by larger numbers, outskilled, outRR'ed
Players who enjoy playing together will not change their behavior when detection is changed. Players who are simply not good enough to win fights will still get frustrated and will still team up.
Furthermore, in Albion scouts have an option to spec shield and MoBlock to reach 50%+ avoidance. This defense (and lack of melee-offense if you still spec Archery high) almost promotes stealth-zerging. Essentially they spec for doing good damage when not in melee and in melee live long enough for their buddies (who do the same) to kill their enemies. Add a minstrel to the mix and you can take on greater numbers and even if you do eat a perf not die due to high enough defense meaning his buddies will kill the enemy before he dies.
If you increase detection-range for those guys do you honestly think they will solo ? They keep their spec the same, group-composition the same and suddenly they can even avoid perfs and more aggressively seek out other stealthers. It doesn't change the meta for most scouts and it certainly will not change how they think about grouping up with friends and being effective.
Personally I can't blame them, it is effective and if you enjoy playing with friends it's a very viable way to get in some kills.
One of the most articulate responses I've seen on these forums. Well done sir
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:40 PM
by
Tillbeast
First time since launch day have we actaully seen albs with a set of balls, maybe floating above their heads but a set of balls none the less.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:46 PM
by
Mauriac
In a separate note, yesterday there were a ton of what appeared to be solo infs out. I say appeared because it's impossible to know if they were really solo or just running back to rejoin a zerg but I'm going to with the positive thought that they were solo. All were rr3 and rr4 too which is cool to see.
Shout out to Mcnasty, good to see you taking on two SBs and winning. Now fight me next time
Shout out to Mcnasty, good to see you taking on two SBs and winning. Now fight me next time
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:50 PM
by
Dariussdars
Mauriac wrote: ↑Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:46 PMIn a separate note, yesterday there were a ton of what appeared to be solo infs out. I say appeared because it's impossible to know if they were really solo or just running back to rejoin a zerg but I'm going to with the positive thought that they were solo. All were rr3 and rr4 too which is cool to see.
Shout out to Mcnasty, good to see you taking on two SBs and winning. Now fight me next time
Still have the one all star Alb stealth crew camping duos and solos. Still looking for that Hib/Mid stealth zerg that these Albs claim they formed a zerg to combat.
They might as well just admit they run 4-8 deep because they absolutely can not RvR without multiple hands to hold on a class that can stealth.
Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:52 PM
by
Mauriac
Dariussdars wrote: ↑Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:50 PMMauriac wrote: ↑Mon 1 Apr 2019 3:46 PMIn a separate note, yesterday there were a ton of what appeared to be solo infs out. I say appeared because it's impossible to know if they were really solo or just running back to rejoin a zerg but I'm going to with the positive thought that they were solo. All were rr3 and rr4 too which is cool to see.
Shout out to Mcnasty, good to see you taking on two SBs and winning. Now fight me next time
Still have the one all star Alb stealth crew camping duos and solos. Still looking for that Hib/Mid stealth zerg that these Albs claim they formed a zerg to combat.
They might as well just admit they run 4-8 deep because they absolutely can not RvR without multiple hands to hold on a class that can stealth.
Yeah I know the one you're talking about. They suck. But at least there is hope with the new generation of infies
Sat 27 Apr 2019 3:36 PM
by
phixion
Blistin, Elrowia, Bibyshady, Mysteri all absolute trash.
Sat 27 Apr 2019 3:51 PM
by
Lillebror
Gotta love a good old name and shame
Sat 27 Apr 2019 8:35 PM
by
dbeattie71
A almost RR7 inf with 36 solo kills? How does that happen.
Sat 27 Apr 2019 10:46 PM
by
Tarticus74
Please tell me that ain't true lol
RR7 and 36 solo kills on a stealth class?
RR7 and 36 solo kills on a stealth class?
Sun 28 Apr 2019 7:31 AM
by
genchaos9
What's the difference between an 8 man stealth team killing a solo and an 8 man speed group killing a solo?
Sun 28 Apr 2019 8:55 AM
by
jelzinga_EU
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑Sat 30 Mar 2019 4:35 AMI made a Ranger and will probably play it over my shade. I built it for sin hunting. I got discouraged a bit on the way to 50 but now that he's 50 I'm glad I stuck with it. I used the bow for leveling but won't put any points in it when I respec at RR4. I had higher bow for a while but after having everything blocked or missing, I threw it in the trash. That's probably a problem that needs addressed. Hunters need something, I don't know what but when I fight a hunter I feel like I should remove some armor or something to even it out :O
It is because while you feel the Bow is trash most people feel that is the case about the hunter-class, in square.
* Imagine your bow was doing 10-20% less damage and have a little less range. Before it was trash, now it is mega-trash.
* Imagine your melee is evaded 25% more, costed 50% more endurance, swinged 30% slower and had no decent reactionaries.
* Imagine if your Pathfinding buffs suddenly became 20% less effective for spec-AF, your base STR buff was removed and your damage-add was replaced by a dog on 3 legs which can't sprint, bark, bite (but at least it doesn't have rabies!)
* Your armor magically changes so rather being resistant to the most prominent damage-type you fight, it becomes weak to it.
Congratulations! You're a hunter!
Mon 29 Apr 2019 7:25 PM
by
Mauriac
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑Sun 28 Apr 2019 8:55 AMdbeattie71 wrote: ↑Sat 30 Mar 2019 4:35 AMI made a Ranger and will probably play it over my shade. I built it for sin hunting. I got discouraged a bit on the way to 50 but now that he's 50 I'm glad I stuck with it. I used the bow for leveling but won't put any points in it when I respec at RR4. I had higher bow for a while but after having everything blocked or missing, I threw it in the trash. That's probably a problem that needs addressed. Hunters need something, I don't know what but when I fight a hunter I feel like I should remove some armor or something to even it out :O
It is because while you feel the Bow is trash most people feel that is the case about the hunter-class, in square.
* Imagine your bow was doing 10-20% less damage and have a little less range. Before it was trash, now it is mega-trash.
* Imagine your melee is evaded 25% more, costed 50% more endurance, swinged 30% slower and had no decent reactionaries.
* Imagine if your Pathfinding buffs suddenly became 20% less effective for spec-AF, your base STR buff was removed and your damage-add was replaced by a dog on 3 legs which can't sprint, bark, bite (but at least it doesn't have rabies!)
* Your armor magically changes so rather being resistant to the most prominent damage-type you fight, it becomes weak to it.
Congratulations! You're a hunter!
The most epic and horrifyingly true summary of the hunters situation on Phoenix. Well played sir, well played.
/golf clap
Mon 29 Apr 2019 7:26 PM
by
Mauriac
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