Adding, Small Mans, Etc... - Phoenix Freeshard

Following in from:

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8679

We run pretty much exclusively small man, duo, setups and can get some great fights but they are few and far between.

We avoid emain like the plague yet even so there is probably a >50% chance we will get added on or rolled by an 8 man (or other small man / Zerg) during any given fight.

I wanted to start this thread as a way to gauge interest in starting a discord dedicated to small mans, and/or having the community come together and loosely agree on a zone that would be appropriate to small manning in and one where adding by larger groups would be avoided.

Would be wonderful to get the word out there that if you are interested in small man come to XXX and also that if you are a respectable 8 man / guild... try not to add on small man fights in XXX zone.

8 mans tend to coalesce around brefine and there seems to be an understanding that they won’t add in each other here. However this respect does not extend to small mans in that zone as far as I can see.

If you would be at all interested in joining such a discord perhaps pop a reply here so we can gauge interest / start to invite.

Sun 12 May 2019 9:18 AM by Luluko

jamtland or hadrians could be good for that but hadrians should be tough with all the hibs fg there ganking everything

well despite that I would like to see a smallman/solo zone for action but I usually solo on my skald since most people I used to duo with already left because they got tired of the zergfest

despite that thidrank is also a nice place to roam and have smallman fights

Sun 12 May 2019 11:07 AM by Anelyn77

Luluko wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 9:18 AM
jamtland or hadrians could be good for that but hadrians should tough with all the hibs fg there ganking everything

well despite that I would like to see a smallman/solo zone for action but I usually solo on my skald since most people I used to duo with already left because they got tired of the zergfest

despite that thidrank is also a nice place to roam and have smallman fights

As long as you stay away from the bridges ^_^

Always 2-3 grouped archers with forward positioned assassins jumping on anything less than a FG

Sun 12 May 2019 4:18 PM by bigne88

After I opened my rant thread I was thinking about doing something like you propose. First off, tough, I wanted to try to involve / get feedbacks by the estabilished and most active 8v8 parties (doki doki, philosophers, pughertj, ma anche no, troll hunters and a couple of french guildies) hib side.
If thous main groups would agree about this "non add" etiquete, witch is already there, more or less, it wpild be gret to have a nicely setted discord witch could give also the option of picking up puggers and know better eatch other like-minded players.

Lets start spreading the voice around and get feedbacks from the active pvp comunity, it will also help the server with the bleeding players.

Stealther adders (archers mostly) are a plague. We should find a way to boicot thous nobs.

Sun 12 May 2019 4:22 PM by Dariussdars

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 4:18 PM
After I opened my rant thread I was thinking about doing something like you propose. First off, tough, I wanted to try to involve / get feedbacks by the estabilished and most active 8v8 parties (doki doki, philosophers, pughertj, ma anche no and a couple of french guildies) hib side.
If thous main groups would agree about this "non add" etiquete, witch is already there, more or less, it wpild be gret to have a nicely setted discord witch could give also the option of picking up puggers and know better eatch other like-minded players.

Lets start spreading the voice around and get feedbacks from the active pvp comunity, it will also help the server with the bleeding players.

Stealther adders (archers mostly) are a plague. We should find a way to boicot thous nobs.

All you leet 8 mans going to stop rolling the solos you come across? Doubt it, so expect to get added on.

Sun 12 May 2019 4:30 PM by bigne88

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 4:22 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 4:18 PM
After I opened my rant thread I was thinking about doing something like you propose. First off, tough, I wanted to try to involve / get feedbacks by the estabilished and most active 8v8 parties (doki doki, philosophers, pughertj, ma anche no and a couple of french guildies) hib side.
If thous main groups would agree about this "non add" etiquete, witch is already there, more or less, it wpild be gret to have a nicely setted discord witch could give also the option of picking up puggers and know better eatch other like-minded players.

Lets start spreading the voice around and get feedbacks from the active pvp comunity, it will also help the server with the bleeding players.

Stealther adders (archers mostly) are a plague. We should find a way to boicot thous nobs.

All you leet 8 mans going to stop rolling the solos you come across? Doubt it, so expect to get added on.

A stealther killing expers is not considered solo. Stealty gameplay is all about unfair fights, so, stop crying.

Sun 12 May 2019 4:35 PM by Dariussdars

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 4:30 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 4:22 PM
bigne88 wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 4:18 PM
After I opened my rant thread I was thinking about doing something like you propose. First off, tough, I wanted to try to involve / get feedbacks by the estabilished and most active 8v8 parties (doki doki, philosophers, pughertj, ma anche no and a couple of french guildies) hib side.
If thous main groups would agree about this "non add" etiquete, witch is already there, more or less, it wpild be gret to have a nicely setted discord witch could give also the option of picking up puggers and know better eatch other like-minded players.

Lets start spreading the voice around and get feedbacks from the active pvp comunity, it will also help the server with the bleeding players.

Stealther adders (archers mostly) are a plague. We should find a way to boicot thous nobs.

All you leet 8 mans going to stop rolling the solos you come across? Doubt it, so expect to get added on.

A stealther killing expers is not considered solo. Stealty gameplay is all about unfair fights, so, stop crying.

I run solo on a Thane. I get rolled over by every duo, trio, quado and 8 man that I see. I get hit by instaamnesia every single time one of your leet Hib 8 mans comes across me. You want to stop being added on, stop running over every single solo VISIBLE you come across.

Is that a little clearer for you now? You keep rolling over solo VISIS, expect to get added on in every single 8x8 you are in.

Sun 12 May 2019 4:41 PM by bigne88

I know who you are (blue dressed thane?) and I admit I feel sorry when I zerg random soloers.
Than I remember that all this "soloers" (mostly sorcerers, skalds, mincers, thanes) were perma camping all my exp parties i brought out in the FZ.

Most of soloers are lowbie killers, so I have no sorry fragging them and slowing them down with my insta amnesia.

Sun 12 May 2019 4:44 PM by Dariussdars

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 4:41 PM
I know who you are (blue dressed thane?) and I admit I feel sorry when I zerg random soloers.
Than I remember that all this "soloers" (mostly sorcerers, skalds, mincers, thanes) were perma camping all my exp parties i brought out in the FZ.

Most of soloers are lowbie killers, so I have no sorry fragging them and slowing them down with my insta amnesia.

Heh, not even sure what color my Thane is in, since he is in nothing but RoG items, which surprisingly capped almost every resist/stat for him.

My Thane never set foot in either ALb or Hib xp zones, since trying to navigate all that way on hastener speed sucks.

Like i said, you have no issues with rolling over solos, so why exactly are you crying about dying to two groups of Albs? It's called karma, deal with it.

Sun 12 May 2019 5:21 PM by Luluko

bigne88 wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 4:41 PM
I know who you are (blue dressed thane?) and I admit I feel sorry when I zerg random soloers.
Than I remember that all this "soloers" (mostly sorcerers, skalds, mincers, thanes) were perma camping all my exp parties i brought out in the FZ.

Most of soloers are lowbie killers, so I have no sorry fragging them and slowing them down with my insta amnesia.

how convenient maybe people should solo more when they are 50 but they dont because of fgs running them over, so people have to go after xper for their only way to earn rps without having to zerg it up and your solution to this also doesnt earn any pity from soloers if you get added constantly. Thats quite an endless loop we got here.

Sun 12 May 2019 5:38 PM by YeeRex

People complain about all the stealthers and minstrels/skalds but those are the only classes you can solo on without being a complete masochist.

If 8 man and small man groups are going to complain about getting zerged they need to look in the mirror and realize they did the same thing to the solo community. Especially the visible soloers with no speed who mostly rerolled stealthers and speed classes (I know I did). I can count on one hand the amount of times my reaver or cabby was ignored by a group of 3+ and now they are PvE toons.

Sun 12 May 2019 8:46 PM by kedelin

you had me laughing when you put pkay into the respectable 8man guild category.... they are nothing but zergers that like chasing smallman/solos across the zone

Sun 12 May 2019 9:07 PM by bodybybryan

I usually solo on my reaver and when i do expect to get zerg rolled 9/10 times. I don't let it bother me. RVR = Realm vs Realm. I'll take adding and zerging all day over the duel hill collusion on live that took place after mark jacobs left and daoc died. I enjoy natural RVR. If you're looking for something more mirrored or structured arena or instanced pvp might be more fitting for you.

Sun 12 May 2019 10:06 PM by lurker

Perhaps I should have expected it. But this thread turned into something I wasn’t intending. What I was hoping to do was make contact with like minded small man focused groups out there to try and come to some form of consensus around where to go if your looking for good fights whilst perhaps highlighting this to larger groups who may care about it enough to not trample on it.

Of course adding/zerging/etc is all part of DAOC and part of what adds to the charm. I don't really care about such things.

I *WISH* the attitude of the community was:

“Hey, there’s a fight on going, let just observe for a second and consider.
1) do my realm mates need or want our help?
2) does this look like a fight that the two opponents are enjoying?
3) would my full group+ running in and mopping up add to or subtract from that?
4) do we really need the 100 or so RPs each this will net my group”

But i accept that even this will never happen. However the more that we can publicise it, perhaps the more will think twice before just running in.

Personally, it certainly frustrates me when my own realm roll over a fight I’m having for that 50rps each... I've fought hard to get that 2v2 down to 50% and it just feels like leaching to me. We certainly wouldn’t do that in PvE. But its how the game is. However it gives that the more respectful a community is to other players the more players remain.

What i was looking to do was create a ‘place’ where it would be obvious, or widely understood that, the teams there were happy to fight on their own and would prefer you not to add. Like brefine is for the 8 men. Not try to change the attitudes in general... Zerg everything everywhere if you wish. But if you are in XXX, perhaps think twice? Certainly its expected everywhere else.

Sun 12 May 2019 10:19 PM by bigne88

seems like there is already such a discord. will link it as soon as i get invite.

Sun 12 May 2019 11:22 PM by bigne88

pm for invite

Mon 13 May 2019 12:53 AM by vxr

lurker wrote: ↑
Sun 12 May 2019 8:52 AM
Following in from:

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8679

We run pretty much exclusively small man, duo, setups and can get some great fights but they are few and far between.

We avoid emain like the plague yet even so there is probably a >50% chance we will get added on or rolled by an 8 man (or other small man / Zerg) during any given fight.

I wanted to start this thread as a way to gauge interest in starting a discord dedicated to small mans, and/or having the community come together and loosely agree on a zone that would be appropriate to small manning in and one where adding by larger groups would be avoided.

Would be wonderful to get the word out there that if you are interested in small man come to XXX and also that if you are a respectable 8 man / guild... try not to add on small man fights in XXX zone.

8 mans tend to coalesce around brefine and there seems to be an understanding that they won’t add in each other here. However this respect does not extend to small mans in that zone as far as I can see.

If you would be at all interested in joining such a discord perhaps pop a reply here so we can gauge interest / start to invite.

So what were you thinking of the unofficial rule-set for this zone? /bow /bow and engage? or just normal rules of engagement but with 1-3 people? Would 3man be allowed to hit solos? Adding allowed?

Whatever it is, I would be interested.

Mon 13 May 2019 12:56 AM by vxr

Nevermind, I see you answered my questions already.

Sat 18 May 2019 11:03 PM by NoExit

Hello,

same here, my brother and me mostly running duo, looking for good fights... fights without adds and vs. equal realm ranks.
Due to fact that there is no mercy in general at the field ( so called "red is dead" policy, that´s BS btw., nothing is more embrassing than adding a equal fight) we kill solos´s and we add depending on the present situation but we try to let equal fight happen, and solos´s as far as we remeber them, we kill only one time each evening.

Meet us at the field, we avoid Emain too was well as the Task Zone. We are mostly active in Odin´s, Jamtland, CG and Hadrians as long as there is no Task.
I´m open to any kind of coordination especially on discord for fights vs. other people with same interest.

Sun 19 May 2019 12:09 AM by Anelyn77

This has been a debate beaten to death since DaoC early years.

There will always be individuals or small men and couple FG (guild groups not pubs) that won't add on fights already taking place, peeps knowing each other and even hanging together in Disco / TS / Vent etc, but this will always be a minority. You notice it, but the times it happens are few in between because the majority is well... bigger

You can't impose others rules of conduit regarding to RvR and behavior when seeing action in frontiers, what you can do is make rules for yourself, stick with them (not I won't add on this guy / small men now, but 10 mins later let's blow em up) and people will notice (both realm mates and "enemies"

. And some of them will appreciate it and respond in return when running into you. At least that's what I did back on live and intend to do same here.

PST: be careful if you end up setting duel areas and then randoms or FG's finding you (randomly or not) and wiping everyone, there are no rules anywhere that say they can't kill everyone RED in a RvR area, we had this attempted on excal / pryd EU couple times, and while some of us (mainly knew each other despite diff realms) were happy to just observe or pass by w/o interfering, it didn't last.

All the best ^_^

Sun 19 May 2019 1:45 AM by Sektor

I add everything idgaf. If it’s red grey or yellow it’s gonna die. True soldier.

Sun 19 May 2019 8:39 AM by Hejjin

The reality that is DAoC is that 8 man groups will roll over anything that gets in their way, whether it is small man, solos or a larger clump of disorganised solos / duos, the small man groups will in turn do the same to duos or solos, each rung in the food chain preys on those below them. As a solo Friar I have no stealth, nor access to anything but speed of the realm, neither of those things stops groups from rolling over me, or even worse, adding on to solo 1 v 1 fights, so I have exactly zero sympathy for the plight of the 8 man or small man groups. I do try to respect 1 v 1 fights and mostly only join in if a realm mate is losing, but sometimes I react first and think later.

Hopefully for the next event they will have different zones for the solos, small man, and 8 man groups to fight in, though I am not foolish enough to believe that the solo zone won't have people grouping or working together...

Sun 19 May 2019 1:29 PM by Valaraukar

Yesterday I was trying to reach my group with my 50 healer, from Hadrian MPK to Pennine:

Got killed by a hidden lurikeen...
Ressed by fellow kids roaming I got past the MMG:

Got killed by FGA near benowyc...

I do not have solo classes toon, I like Daoc for rvr and rvr is a war. Anyway if I will ever use a solo toon I will try to kill every Enemy I see, and will add in any fight I find. Same with my guild's 8men, because it is war and I really don't care if anyone will complain about this. Just to be clear it is nothing personal, but after being killed several times while exping, or while pulling cambions alone with my BD, I just think that this is Daoc, nothing more and nothing less 😁