20+5 stealth in Thidranki - why do I get spotted all the time?

Started 24 Jan 2019
by sinadin
in RvR
Hi, I'm a fresh level 20 NS, wanted to have some fun in Thid and specced stealth quite high.

With the combined skill of 25 I still get spotted all the time by higher level players, although their max level is 24.

Is stealth different here or what's wrong?

Thanks.
Thu 24 Jan 2019 11:14 PM by Cadeg
i have encounter the same problem as you, but in rvr 50 with 51 composite stealth ( with scout 40/42 ), visible in speed 6 see me miles away and ran straight to me ...
gm said it's because gap level ( ie : they have 50+ bonus range detect by level difference, so in your case, 50x4 = 200 range away to see you )
seems the composite stealth don't affect the detection on the server
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:13 AM by mik
sinadin wrote:
Thu 24 Jan 2019 8:22 PM
Hi, I'm a fresh level 20 NS, wanted to have some fun in Thid and specced stealth quite high.

With the combined skill of 25 I still get spotted all the time by higher level players, although their max level is 24.

Is stealth different here or what's wrong?

Thanks.


I think this might be the same reason why you can't use higher poisons.
Your stealth might only be up to 20, you can't overcap it with + Skill.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 9:33 AM by Totenmond
If you remember your old Thid specs you alwys had 19+5 on lvl 24 because your skill couldnt be higher than your level.

So if you are lvl 20 you better spec 15+5
Fri 25 Jan 2019 9:35 AM by sinadin
alright.

btw, higher potions can be used. 20+5 and level 25 potions worked fine
Fri 25 Jan 2019 3:39 PM by Thinal
mik wrote:
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:13 AM
sinadin wrote:
Thu 24 Jan 2019 8:22 PM
Hi, I'm a fresh level 20 NS, wanted to have some fun in Thid and specced stealth quite high.

With the combined skill of 25 I still get spotted all the time by higher level players, although their max level is 24.

Is stealth different here or what's wrong?

Thanks.


I think this might be the same reason why you can't use higher poisons.
Your stealth might only be up to 20, you can't overcap it with + Skill.

I had presumed the same thing at first, but some Googling didn't verify that. It did assert the opposite for PvE, that higher stealth does help, but I never found any evidence on whether it's capped to level in RvR.

It could very well be true and I never found the assertion, or it's different for Phoenix. It certainly seems likely per the OP's experience.
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:14 PM by Dimir
As others have said, I am fairly certain in RvR your stealth can't go above your own level.
Sat 26 Jan 2019 7:16 PM by Takii
In the few runs I did In RvR with my guild I definitely noticed that we saw stealthers significantly more easily than I remember being possible in classic, at speed 6.
Sat 26 Jan 2019 11:18 PM by florin
There is something very broken. I took my 46 inf to Hadrian’s for the rvr task. Since I’m leveling I have 0 points specd into stealth. At 46 with 1+6 in stealth I popped a ranger and a hunter that were both orange to me. The full groups finished them off. Mind you both were able to sneak close enough to the keep and not be seen by the others but I saw them quite a ways away ..far enough that they’re names didn’t pop and were not red.
Mon 28 Jan 2019 4:26 PM by Jaegaer
Read the WIKI:

Stealthers Seeing Others in Stealth
Assuming stealth skill is at 50
Assassins see other assassins at a range of 125.
Assassins see archers at a range of 250.

And if said Archers did not have 50 stealth, you see them from even farher away while your stealth only affects from how far away they see you.
Tue 29 Jan 2019 12:48 PM by Sepplord
florin wrote:
Sat 26 Jan 2019 11:18 PM
There is something very broken. I took my 46 inf to Hadrian’s for the rvr task. Since I’m leveling I have 0 points specd into stealth. At 46 with 1+6 in stealth I popped a ranger and a hunter that were both orange to me. The full groups finished them off. Mind you both were able to sneak close enough to the keep and not be seen by the others but I saw them quite a ways away ..far enough that they’re names didn’t pop and were not red.

your own stealthlevel has no impact on how fast you detect others...
without knowing the stealth specc of the players that popped up so soon there's not much to say
Tue 29 Jan 2019 8:18 PM by Thinal
Jaegaer wrote:
Mon 28 Jan 2019 4:26 PM
Read the WIKI:

Stealthers Seeing Others in Stealth
Assuming stealth skill is at 50
Assassins see other assassins at a range of 125.
Assassins see archers at a range of 250.

And if said Archers did not have 50 stealth, you see them from even farher away while your stealth only affects from how far away they see you.

That's a quick summary of the dynamic for level 50s, where we're going to spend a lot of time endgame, but the mechanics are a little more nuanced below level 50.

The 125 / 250 above (which I'm not sure is still correct as these ranges were perpetually tweaked in beta) will always be the minimum distance at which these people will see each other. A non-stealther will also have a minimum distance of 125 at which they can detect a stealther, regardless of spec and relative levels. This is about the length of a horse. Assassins do get a bonus at detection. BY the end of beta, I believe that assassins could see other assassins with no bonus, see archers with some bonus, and see minstrels with a larger bonus. Archers could see assassins with no bonus and minstrels with some bonus. Minstrels only get the base 125 minimum distance.

These are also modified by speed. This also changed throughout beta; a factor of one's speed over a base sprint was at one point subtracted from the detection range. (making non-assassin's detection range at speed 6 effectively zero.) This was later changed to the distance being divided, not subtracted, which meant that the range could shrink but woudln't go to zero. This has been tweaked even further since then, and the precise numbers are a mystery to me,

There's also a check of player LEVEL versus stealther SKILL. I believe this was 25 units X (level - skill), minimum zero that is added to the base range.

These are how I understand stealth is intended to work.
* The OP's report makes sense if stealth over one's level doesn't help. I can't find any evidence for how this *should* work RvR, though it should PvE, so I must assume the mechanic is that he only has effective stealth to level.

* For the low-stealth infiltrator, his own stealth isn't relevant, just his target's. The distance is calculated based on his player level (46) versus the opponent stealther's skill level, then doubled for a class bonus. Note that in original 1.65 mechanics, the assassin doesn't actually get the detection range bonus until 16 spec in stealth, but on Phoenix it's baked into the class and isn't an ability.
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