LF Armsman Class Tutorial - Phoenix Freeshard

Good morning everyone! I'm thinking about starting an Armsman and I'm looking for a tutorial / build on the class.
I haven't played since 2002 so I'm basically starting all over.
Thanks!

Fri 2 Apr 2021 8:17 PM by Magesty

How do you want to play at 50?

Solo/small man build will look different from 8v8/Zerg build.

For solo/small I’d say something like

44 pole/42 shield/39 or 34 weapon depending on RR/rest parry

Purge 2-3
IP 2-3
Mastery parry/block 5

After that I’d get damage/swing speed passives. Maybe FA if you want to try cheesing it out in certain matchups.

Use Sidi vest and Dragon large shield. Only use dragon small if you’re ok with swapping and near a break point in terms of attacks per slam. My understanding is that large shield block chance ends up being better across the board, but that could be bad information. Try to work towards a weaponless template so you can use a variety of procs. You might want a charge to interrupt. Use damage shield, heal, combined forces, endo regen potion. Get legion gem for heal charge and a d/q debuff charge for certain matchups.

You’ll perform better if you swap to 1h/shield in between 2h swings, but that is not a very enjoyable way to play the game. Unfortunately, it isn’t much of an option on Phoenix.

Very basic framework for a 1v1 fight should be something like the following (not sure how DR mechanics work here, but use it as much as possible)

Numb to bait/test purge (surprisingly, people fall for it all the time)
Back style
Back style follow up
Defenders rage/taunt
Slam
Back style
Back style follow up
Defenders rage/taunt

*edit* it appears that defenders rage will work if your opponent has used a style preceding your slam. If that’s the case you’ll want to DR/poleaxe during the slam instead of using the back style.

As a slam class you have to pay attention to timers. Make sure your clock is in a spot where you can count the seconds. Stun immunity timer is durationx5, so numb and slam are 10 and 45 seconds respectively. I’ve lost more than a few fights because I’m not disciplined enough about checking the clock when I stun.

You’re going to have a tough time until around RR6. Stealthers will be 80% of your “winnable” fights and they are fairly overbearing on Phoenix. Most of them are RR8+ and have the freedom to acquire excessive amounts of passive RAs. Even after RR6 you will likely still be beaten fairly consistently by good ones as they simply won’t fight you without purge up. You’ll win some of these fights to be sure, but on a more balanced server you’d be winning consistently by 5L5 as a heavy tank unless you’re eating perf/CD without purge.

As for leveling I’d go 1H crush for bludgeon/contusions early, but it hardly matters as leveling isn’t nearly the grind it used to be. Dig around for the xp item spreadsheet and use the /task commands to see what mob types are giving the best xp. Level in frontiers to acquire tinderboxes. If you’re concerned about leveling up quickly only group when the players have a plan and are efficient & orderly, or else you’ll just be wasting time. If you’d like to socialize there are some big guilds and, obviously, grouping is a great way to make friends.

There are a lot of items you acquire in various ways that you can turn in for xp. Always use them.

Xp items from certain monsters
Task completion tokens
Phoenix eggs from soloing
Realm items you can turn in @ docks

Sat 3 Apr 2021 1:43 AM by Zephasys

Thank you for the reply!

I plan on playing duo with a friend at least initially and then I'll see what the future brings.

That being said. I do have a competitive side and can see myself participating in RVR eventually but at first I will just be a solo / duo player.

Sat 3 Apr 2021 1:55 PM by Magesty

When you say solo/duo do you mean in PvP? Because that is a much harder way to play as an Armsman than grouping/zerging.

If you have specific questions about PvE let me know. My answer mostly covered PvP as PvE on this server is a fairly short process.

Sat 3 Apr 2021 3:57 PM by Zephasys

I plan on playing mainly PVE with a friend and possibly doing PVP later in the future.

Mon 5 Apr 2021 4:52 PM by Magesty

So basically my answer was of almost no help. Sorry.

For PvE your decision making is somewhat contingent on the class your friend is playing. Most likely you will want to do crush/shield at low levels. Low endurance cost, anytime stun chain, and guard.

If your friend is playing something that can heal/buff you might be able to kill a little more quickly using 2h/pole arm, but that is dependent on how much damage you are taking and how efficiently your partner can heal. The goal is minimal downtime and maximum XP items/bonuses. Make sure you are doing camps that drop xp items that have the highest usable minimum level as your xp per item seems to be based off of minimum turn in level.

Mon 5 Apr 2021 11:16 PM by gotwqqd

Magesty wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Apr 2021 4:52 PM
So basically my answer was of almost no help. Sorry.

For PvE your decision making is somewhat contingent on the class your friend is playing. Most likely you will want to do crush/shield at low levels. Low endurance cost, anytime stun chain, and guard.

If your friend is playing something that can heal/buff you might be able to kill a little more quickly using 2h/pole arm, but that is dependent on how much damage you are taking and how efficiently your partner can heal. The goal is minimal downtime and maximum XP items/bonuses. Make sure you are doing camps that drop xp items that have the highest usable minimum level as your xp per item seems to be based off of minimum turn in level.

I found that polearm armsman could pretty much solo orange/red nearly nonstop with pots and tinder
So I don’t see any reason for shield with another player

Mon 5 Apr 2021 11:18 PM by thirian24

Armsman/Paladin is a great duo.

Tue 6 Apr 2021 12:57 PM by Magesty

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Apr 2021 11:16 PM
I found that polearm armsman could pretty much solo orange/red nearly nonstop with pots and tinder
So I don’t see any reason for shield with another player

Just helped a guildie level up an armsman this past weekend for a little bit and at least against dunters (low 30s) this certainly wasn’t the case— even with consistent shield swapping in between hits. You want to be able to chain pull reds as a duo and in order to do so you need to adjust to what each other are playing. The partner would need to be a support class or something like a reaver that can leverage its health pool a little bit to be more effective as polearm.

Also, I’m not sure it is safe to assume that two new players are going to have an unlimited supply of tinders and easy access to buff potions.

Wed 7 Apr 2021 2:19 PM by Centenario

Magesty wrote: ↑
Fri 2 Apr 2021 8:17 PM
Use Sidi vest and Dragon large shield. Only use dragon small if you’re ok with swapping and near a break point in terms of attacks per slam. My understanding is that large shield block chance ends up being better across the board, but that could be bad information.

gruenesschaf wrote: 1) Dual wield only reduces block by 25% instead of 50%
2) The block cap in rvr is 80%

https://forum.playphoenix.online/server/tavern/6101-did-assassins-actually-just-get-buffed?page=27#45237

gruenesschaf wrote: This target cap per shield size isn't the case on live either, it's just a penalty for any more attackers. Except for the custom effect on projectile block rate you can use this as a reference https://gaheris.net/p/test_shield_size.html

gruenesschaf wrote: In PvE Large shields have a 99% block cap, medium 90% and small 80%. The attacker penalty is the same in pve and rvr, just like that penalty not applying to guard.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/get-involved/ask-the-team/25495-does-shield-size-matter-in-rvr-for-block-rate-vs-multiple-enemies#p145459

gruenesschaf wrote: The block cap at this patch level should be and is 80% in rvr and in pve 80% with a small shield, 90 with a medium and 99 with a large one.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/bug-tracker/resolved-issues/23131-abilityengage#p131347

This means that the small shield has no penalty/gain in RvR against 1 target.
Then against multiple target on you you will get 80.14-52.91=27.23 27.23/10=2.723% so you will lose less than 2.73% block chance per additional attacker (lvl 75 vs lvl 50 attackers)
On guard scenario you will lose 0% per additional attacker, and will be capped at 79% block chance instead of 80%.
This means that the small shield has no negative side in RvR except when multiple attackers are targetting you, which should never be the case.
So always go with small dragon shield for RvR on any alb class, so you get that 2.5 speed after slam.

Wed 7 Apr 2021 6:20 PM by gotwqqd

Magesty wrote: ↑
Tue 6 Apr 2021 12:57 PM
gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Apr 2021 11:16 PM
I found that polearm armsman could pretty much solo orange/red nearly nonstop with pots and tinder
So I don’t see any reason for shield with another player

Just helped a guildie level up an armsman this past weekend for a little bit and at least against dunters (low 30s) this certainly wasn’t the case— even with consistent shield swapping in between hits. You want to be able to chain pull reds as a duo and in order to do so you need to adjust to what each other are playing. The partner would need to be a support class or something like a reaver that can leverage its health pool a little bit to be more effective as polearm.

Also, I’m not sure it is safe to assume that two new players are going to have an unlimited supply of tinders and easy access to buff potions.

Firstly, I’m not sure but dunters=undead....no damage bonus as it’s likely spirit vulnerable.

I was not really stating the solo prowess as leveling up...more of as farming at 50. From what I remember it’s was after 40 when polearm spec started to shine in pve against damage type vulnerable mobs.

Wed 7 Apr 2021 6:32 PM by gotwqqd

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Apr 2021 11:18 PM
Armsman/Paladin is a great duo.

I’d think any guard class would be good.

It seems almost any class will work well for pve duo with armsman.
Buffs+heals?
DA/haste/pbt+speed?

Wed 7 Apr 2021 11:22 PM by Magesty

Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Apr 2021 2:19 PM
This means that the small shield has no negative side in RvR except when multiple attackers are targetting you, which should never be the case.
So always go with small dragon shield for RvR on any alb class, so you get that 2.5 speed after slam.

What do you mean it should never be the case that you're getting attacked by multiples? Have you RvR'd before? Remember, the context of my post was for solo/duo/trio gameplay.

Also, the Gaheris test is the exact reason I had assumed large shields were always the better choice unless you are going to get something meaningful from the increased swing speed on an average of like two swings per fight. I just don't think it is worth the defensive %s unless you are sure you're getting something from it.

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Mon 5 Apr 2021 11:16 PM
Firstly, I’m not sure but dunters=undead....no damage bonus as it’s likely spirit vulnerable.

My guild mate went slash to level up as a change of pace and apparently they are weak to slash. But yeah, once you're over 40 I think polearm or 2h is a much more realistic option. Definitely way better for farming. I was specifically talking about leveling as a new player when recommending crush.

Thu 8 Apr 2021 6:29 AM by Centenario

Magesty wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Apr 2021 11:22 PM
Centenario wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Apr 2021 2:19 PM
This means that the small shield has no negative side in RvR except when multiple attackers are targetting you, which should never be the case.
So always go with small dragon shield for RvR on any alb class, so you get that 2.5 speed after slam.

What do you mean it should never be the case that you're getting attacked by multiples? Have you RvR'd before? Remember, the context of my post was for solo/duo/trio gameplay.

Also, the Gaheris test is the exact reason I had assumed large shields were always the better choice unless you are going to get something meaningful from the increased swing speed on an average of like two swings per fight. I just don't think it is worth the defensive %s unless you are sure you're getting something from it.

You dont have to follow my advice, its mostly for 8-man; maybe some are interested. For solo/duo/trio idk, its very situational, most likely you'd be better off with another class than armsman.
I RvR and as armsman, you are not supposed to be the target of the melee assist.
You peel while your casters take out the targets.
You might sometimes get 1 or 2 that are tired of being peeled or who want to peel you.

The slam followed by 2-chain 30 second peel has to be done asap, that why you run small dragon shield and 4.4 thrust polearm.
Also while switching peels you need to be as quick as possible.

The gaheris test tells you that for guard the difference in blocking is minimal and that for each additional attacker you might lose 1% blocking. Same for blocking for self.
Let's say you have a mob5 and 250 dex RR5+ your block chance should be around 58%; it is not clear is the large shield grants a bonus, or the small shield grants a malus:
if it would be a malus it should be 93% of that so around 54% block chance.
a loss of 4% block chance for self vs a gain of 17% of swing speed after slam.
If it would be a bonus, then you might have gone from 58% to 62% block chance, but gain 17% swing speed after slam.

As armsman I suggest to go for composite 50 thrust, 50 pole, 42-50 shield rest parry.
Ar RR10 you can have 30 thrust, 50 pole, 50 shield, 9 parry.

Thu 8 Apr 2021 7:53 AM by DJ2000

Centenario wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Apr 2021 6:29 AM
[... it is not clear is the large shield grants a bonus, or the small shield grants a malus...

All shields have an +attacker penalty, when blocking for yourself.
A large shield has the lowest, a small shield the highest.

When guarding a group mate, no penalties occur for any shield.
Small shields are preferable in every circumstance as small/8, as there are no downsides when compared to a large shield.

Thu 8 Apr 2021 2:59 PM by Magesty

Unsurprisingly, the tactics on an armsman are very different between 8v8/kite small mans (boring snare slave) and solo/duo/melee small mans (cool guy/burst melee).

Who would’ve guessed?

You will get focused by multiples if you play a solo visible nearly every time you leave a keep. You want to have the best chance to win or at least secure a kill in 1v2s or 1v3s. The ~.3 second actual difference in swing speed between dragon small and large shield on a couple of swings just isn’t worth giving up the block %.

Sat 10 Apr 2021 5:30 PM by Centenario

thats a very specific scenario, on most cases the small dragon shield will be better.

Sun 11 Apr 2021 3:20 PM by Magesty

It’s not a specific scenario, it is an entire play style.

Tue 13 Apr 2021 4:06 PM by Centenario

I did a little bit of testing, I admit that the 2.5 speed is sometimes way too quick, you dont even have time to go behind your target to to a backchain.
If you are simply following with the anytime snare then it would be faster 100%.

3,0 speed and additional defense might be just what feels better.