Shaman Specs - Phoenix Freeshard

Hello Phoenix,

I would like to have some insight about your favourite shaman specs.
I haven't played shaman for long and i'm lost regarding the spec to use.

Mostly for some regular rvr (8 man setup, small bg) eventually some pve grind for feather, raid, etc...

How high do you go in aug, i've seen couple specs like 46 aug / 27 cave or 37 aug / 37 cave. (obv all the rest in mending ). Would a group cry in 8 man rvr if you only have yellow endo and specs?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 9:25 AM by Sepplord

Sandamar wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 8:29 AM
Hello Phoenix,

I would like to have some insight about your favourite shaman specs.
I haven't played shaman for long and i'm lost regarding the spec to use.

Mostly for some regular rvr (8 man setup, small bg) eventually some pve grind for feather, raid, etc...

How high do you go in aug, i've seen couple specs like 46 aug / 27 cave or 37 aug / 37 cave. (obv all the rest in mending ). Would a group cry in 8 man rvr if you only have yellow endo and specs?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Everything i write is hearsay, i have not ever played a shaman myself:
afaik 37/38 or 38/37 (dunno which one) is the usual specc...and yellow speccbuffs are mostly fine, since you won't have conc to red-buff all of your grp anyways.
You might run into groups wanting a full-augspec shaman...but i don't think it will be the usual experience of going 37/38

Mon 11 Feb 2019 11:02 AM by Tillbeast

Unfortunately others will moan if you not providing red buffs. 99% of players don't know either how to spec a shaman (either correct RA's or skills) nor how to play them outside of pve.

Shamans priority in rvr is to survive. Yes he will be helping peel tanks of casters and diseasing where possible but his main priority is to stay alive as long as possible. A 46a shaman with 0hp is not as good as an 37a shaman with 1hp as a 1hp shaman has more active buffs than a 0hp shaman. This is not easy but a spec of 39c 37a is better than 46a 27c for survival. Red dex/qu is not going to save a healer with the mdps on them. Nor is an aoe root from a 27c shaman as it just won't stick. 39+11 means it has a lot better sticking chances therefore saving the healer. Same principle for when mdps target you, your fart will stick saving you. Supporters of 46a say you just get MoF to compensate but a shaman RA's should be 100% aimed at survivability...purge 3, MoC 1 and Ichor should be the RA's taken after LW1. Maybe at high RR 46a is possible but RA's like Aug Dex, Aug Con, Toughness are still better choices and let the shaman do his job better.

If only mids realised this and took LW1 there win rate would increase but heh red buffs are addictive.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:39 PM by dudis

Depends on what type of rvr you are going for. 37 Cave is nice when zergsurfing but uneccessary in group vs group.

43 aug
27 cave
18 mend

Red endo and heat resist, first PBAE disease and AOE root, less awful heal variance.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:16 PM by XLGrandma

im running 38aug/37cave right now. I have found it great for 8 man and zerg. you can get a full line of buffs out+all yellow resists, your roots and diseases land, and you have some utility damage if necessary.

i'm just going to take MoA to like lvl 7 or 8 and should be on par with red buffs. RR3 and ive already got all the utility i need to allow that.

I haven't tinkered with any other specs yet, just my experience so far.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 2:28 PM by TehHobbitz

Is there really a huge difference in resists from 27cave to 37cave?

Wed 13 Feb 2019 4:11 PM by Tillbeast

27+11 and 39+11 is huge in difference. Shaman in a battle will prob only get one opportunity to get an aoe root of to stall incoming mdps before they are upon them and If it don't stick it he will be in trouble. 27+11 requires you to take MoF but those realm points are better spent on more survival related realm abilities.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 12:59 PM by dudis

+skill does nothing for resist rate.

Afaik it's spell level (27 or 37) + MoF -vs- targets level determines resist rate. I dont know the exact formula.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 1:27 PM by Durgrim

My Shaman is 49 Cave, 22 Aug since he is a farming toon.

Fri 15 Feb 2019 10:26 PM by RiffRaff

I'm partial to 46 aug 27 sub 8 mend.

The reason I go this route is this,

There is nothing a higher spec cave shaman can do that I cant with 27 cave. It might not be as powerful as the cave spec shaman, but in grp its not my job to dps. Like someone previously mentioned your job in RvR is to STAY ALIVE. Now, with 46 aug I can better equip my grp to handle what we may encounter in RvR. While still being a fully functional rupter. It doesnt matter if a disease or root gets resisted because im still rupting and thats my 2nd job. So now I can buff the hell out of people and rupt and still have a pbaoe disease with 27 cave. Some people are turned off by this spec and say things like "have fun playing a buffbot" and thats an issue because people need to understand that there are specific roles that need to be played by each specific class and a shaman's main ability is to enhance their grp mates...not spam aoe dot and break CC. All that being said, I do firmly believe in playing how you want and whats fun for you, BUT that doesn't change what the main priorities or benefits of a class are intended to be.

Sun 17 Feb 2019 7:29 PM by BigX

dudis wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:39 PM
Depends on what type of rvr you are going for. 37 Cave is nice when zergsurfing but uneccessary in group vs group.

43 aug
27 cave
18 mend

Red endo and heat resist, first PBAE disease and AOE root, less awful heal variance.

this is the spec. everything else is not really viable in a competitive sense. you really want red heat resist vs the hib caster assist train. if you wanna use red end on your tanks your group will need a few charges tho.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 3:13 PM by pragmatizm

RiffRaff wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Feb 2019 10:26 PM
I'm partial to 46 aug 27 sub 8 mend.

The reason I go this route is this,

There is nothing a higher spec cave shaman can do that I cant with 27 cave. It might not be as powerful as the cave spec shaman, but in grp its not my job to dps. Like someone previously mentioned your job in RvR is to STAY ALIVE. Now, with 46 aug I can better equip my grp to handle what we may encounter in RvR. While still being a fully functional rupter. It doesnt matter if a disease or root gets resisted because im still rupting and thats my 2nd job. So now I can buff the hell out of people and rupt and still have a pbaoe disease with 27 cave. Some people are turned off by this spec and say things like "have fun playing a buffbot" and thats an issue because people need to understand that there are specific roles that need to be played by each specific class and a shaman's main ability is to enhance their grp mates...not spam aoe dot and break CC. All that being said, I do firmly believe in playing how you want and whats fun for you, BUT that doesn't change what the main priorities or benefits of a class are intended to be.

After buffing, the sole purpose of a shaman is to interrupt. The best interrupts are aoe root/disease. A higher level aoe root is preferable since you need less MoF to get it to stick consistently. This is especially important, as you might only get one chance to root before being interrupted. You would also benefit from less resists on your pbaoe disease when trying to kite.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 3:18 PM by pragmatizm

BigX wrote: ↑
Sun 17 Feb 2019 7:29 PM
dudis wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:39 PM
Depends on what type of rvr you are going for. 37 Cave is nice when zergsurfing but uneccessary in group vs group.

43 aug
27 cave
18 mend

Red endo and heat resist, first PBAE disease and AOE root, less awful heal variance.

this is the spec. everything else is not really viable in a competitive sense. you really want red heat resist vs the hib caster assist train. if you wanna use red end on your tanks your group will need a few charges tho.

If a group is dying to an assist train, then the group isnt interrupting well enough. Also, in a heat assist train the focus target is being debuffed, a resist buff will be negated.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 4:31 PM by Errakus

pragmatizm wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 3:18 PM
Also, in a heat assist train the focus target is being debuffed, a resist buff will be negated.

It will be negated, but if it wasnt there they'd be taking 50% more dmg hits...

Sat 23 Feb 2019 7:52 PM by pragmatizm

Errakus wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 4:31 PM
pragmatizm wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 3:18 PM
Also, in a heat assist train the focus target is being debuffed, a resist buff will be negated.

It will be negated, but if it wasnt there they'd be taking 50% more dmg hits...

Well obviously your still running resists, but the need to go 43 strictly for 8% more resist just isnt necessary. I could see an argument being made to go 42 for purple acuity, if you were running a caster heavy group.

Sun 24 Feb 2019 2:18 PM by BigX

pragmatizm wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 7:52 PM
Errakus wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 4:31 PM
pragmatizm wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 3:18 PM
Also, in a heat assist train the focus target is being debuffed, a resist buff will be negated.

It will be negated, but if it wasnt there they'd be taking 50% more dmg hits...

Well obviously your still running resists, but the need to go 43 strictly for 8% more resist just isnt necessary. I could see an argument being made to go 42 for purple acuity, if you were running a caster heavy group.

there is absolutely 0 reason to go for red acuity at all. every caster that knows what he´s doing will always use a charge for that. you go 43 aug purely for the red heat resist and yes it makes a massive difference. theres also absolutely no reason to be higher cave than 27 in a competent group that actually knows how to play the game.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 9:20 AM by dudis

Couple of things...

Even if a 50% debufff would bring you to 0%, having yellow resists would bring you to negative resists, so yes there is a difference. Not to mention the times you'll be nuked while not debuffed.

Also remember that most hibs will stun before debuff, and the heat resists help with the stun duration too. Their heat debuff is listed as energy in charplan, not sure if correct.

Red endo can be huge especially for slam-tanks.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 10:06 PM by pragmatizm

dudis wrote: Couple of things...

Even if a 50% debufff would bring you to 0%, having yellow resists would bring you to negative resists, so yes there is a difference. Not to mention the times you'll be nuked while not debuffed.

Also remember that most hibs will stun before debuff, and the heat resists help with the stun duration too. Their heat debuff is listed as energy in charplan, not sure if correct.

Red endo can be huge especially for slam-tanks.

Your talking 8% difference, or 80 damage for every 1000 damage done, and .6 sec duration on a stun. This is hardly game-changing. Charplan is correct, debuffs are energy based; meaning the duration is reduced based on your energy resistance.

I don't see endo being an issue as long as your tanks are running LW and Tireless.

BigX wrote:
pragmatizm wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 7:52 PM
Errakus wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 4:31 PM
It will be negated, but if it wasnt there they'd be taking 50% more dmg hits...

Well obviously your still running resists, but the need to go 43 strictly for 8% more resist just isnt necessary. I could see an argument being made to go 42 for purple acuity, if you were running a caster heavy group.

there is absolutely 0 reason to go for red acuity at all. every caster that knows what he´s doing will always use a charge for that. you go 43 aug purely for the red heat resist and yes it makes a massive difference. theres also absolutely no reason to be higher cave than 27 in a competent group that actually knows how to play the game.

For me this is an argument for 38 aug 27 cave 27 mend. I cant justify 5 points into Aug simply for 8% resist, its not a massive difference, and the last endo isnt necessary as long as everyone has LW and tireless.

Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:39 PM by dudis

I disagree about the 8% not making much of a difference. Grains of sand makes a heap.

Sat 2 Mar 2019 5:10 PM by Afuldan

RiffRaff wrote: ↑
Fri 15 Feb 2019 10:26 PM
I'm partial to 46 aug 27 sub 8 mend.

The reason I go this route is this,

There is nothing a higher spec cave shaman can do that I cant with 27 cave. It might not be as powerful as the cave spec shaman, but in grp its not my job to dps. Like someone previously mentioned your job in RvR is to STAY ALIVE. Now, with 46 aug I can better equip my grp to handle what we may encounter in RvR. While still being a fully functional rupter. It doesnt matter if a disease or root gets resisted because im still rupting and thats my 2nd job. So now I can buff the hell out of people and rupt and still have a pbaoe disease with 27 cave. Some people are turned off by this spec and say things like "have fun playing a buffbot" and thats an issue because people need to understand that there are specific roles that need to be played by each specific class and a shaman's main ability is to enhance their grp mates...not spam aoe dot and break CC. All that being said, I do firmly believe in playing how you want and whats fun for you, BUT that doesn't change what the main priorities or benefits of a class are intended to be.

Are trolls actually viable shammis or what? Not one troll in top 30 shamans on Herald.

Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:13 PM by MacPrior

dudis wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
I disagree about the 8% not making much of a difference. Grains of sand makes a heap.

Most of Alb Groups, even professionals running without elementary resis at all, due to lack of space for a friar in a alb group. So, Resis are good, but not as important.

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 5:10 PM
Are trolls actually viable shammis or what? Not one troll in top 30 shamans on Herald.

For a shami, same , as for all casters and healers, dex is the most important attribute. So - Kobold is a way to go.
For Spec for RvR :

There are two general good specs possible:
37 Cave /38(37) Aug - Very useful. Alle needs are fulfilled, You cave very efficient. Best spec for 8er group shami on low RR level. with MoA 5-6 you will be able to provide
good buffs for all group.
27 Cave / 46 Aug - Best buffs, but you have to deside, who gets best buffs, who is underbuffed in a group. Very useful for small groups. Cave here is rupt mainly, due to low level of spells - huge part will be resisted. You will need MoF 5 to get +17 for spec Level, +11 on armor, RR5 for max efficient cave usage.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 9:25 AM by Lev

pragmatizm wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 10:06 PM
Your talking 8% difference, or 80 damage for every 1000 damage done, and .6 sec duration on a stun. This is hardly game-changing. Charplan is correct, debuffs are energy based; meaning the duration is reduced based on your energy resistance.

I don't see endo being an issue as long as your tanks are running LW and Tireless.

hmm. the difference is 8%, but this is only half the truth.
with red buffs you'll have 26+24 = 50% heat resists. with yellow you'll have 26+16=42% resists.
if you would take 1000dmg before resists, you would take 500 with red buffs and 580 with yellow buffs. seen from 1000 this is 8%, but the real dmg reduction from yellow to red is about 14%.
yes, almost all cold nukers are in Midgard, ice wizards don't even exist here (as heat or earth is far better), matter is mostly dots. so matter and cold resists are not as important, but the hordes of heat nukers make the red heat buff really worth it.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 11:26 PM by Afuldan

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:13 PM
dudis wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
I disagree about the 8% not making much of a difference. Grains of sand makes a heap.

Most of Alb Groups, even professionals running without elementary resis at all, due to lack of space for a friar in a alb group. So, Resis are good, but not as important.

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 5:10 PM
Are trolls actually viable shammis or what? Not one troll in top 30 shamans on Herald.

For a shami, same , as for all casters and healers, dex is the most important attribute. So - Kobold is a way to go.
For Spec for RvR :

There are two general good specs possible:
37 Cave /38(37) Aug - Very useful. Alle needs are fulfilled, You cave very efficient. Best spec for 8er group shami on low RR level. with MoA 5-6 you will be able to provide
good buffs for all group.
27 Cave / 46 Aug - Best buffs, but you have to deside, who gets best buffs, who is underbuffed in a group. Very useful for small groups. Cave here is rupt mainly, due to low level of spells - huge part will be resisted. You will need MoF 5 to get +17 for spec Level, +11 on armor, RR5 for max efficient cave usage.

I’m going to go against meta and roll with my troll. My job is to survive/interrupt, support healers, not nuke down as many MA as possible. Maybe hide as a Skald and template 2HD.

E: is it even possible? I want to eventually go full cave, but obviously won’t go at low RR (Not enough RA points for all the tools needed to be effective and not just a mez breaker.)

With such low base Dex is it better to go MoA or Aug Dex? I know I wont ever catch up to a Kobold Dex wise, so wouldn’t a higher investment in MoA be better?

Wed 6 Mar 2019 7:37 AM by dudis

Basically everything you do on your shaman will be affected by your castspeed, so I would absolutely advice rerolling a kobold even if you are already 50.

If you are not willing to do so, think of Aug dex and MotA in terms of return on investment. Getting rank 5 of MotA is relly good ROI, but it gets worse and worse after that. You have a ton of RAs you need to prioritize on a shaman over heavily investing in castspeed.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:13 PM by Afuldan

dudis wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 7:37 AM
Basically everything you do on your shaman will be affected by your castspeed, so I would absolutely advice rerolling a kobold even if you are already 50.

If you are not willing to do so, think of Aug dex and MotA in terms of return on investment. Getting rank 5 of MotA is relly good ROI, but it gets worse and worse after that. You have a ton of RAs you need to prioritize on a shaman over heavily investing in castspeed.

I’m not 50 yet (48.5), been testing different combos of MotA and Aug Dex. Rank 4 in each brings my cast speed quite far down compared to without. I know ill be at a disadvantage due to low racial dex. I can live with that.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 6:13 AM by MacPrior

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:13 PM
I’m not 50 yet (48.5), been testing different combos of MotA and Aug Dex. Rank 4 in each brings my cast speed quite far down compared to without. I know ill be at a disadvantage due to low racial dex. I can live with that.

Well, we talking about an optimum of skill and not how do you make your fun character.

And generally - to hide a shami as a skald is just sweet dream, at least in 5 seconds after inc every enemy knows what class you are.
Kobi with AugDeX and MotA is much more efficient. And to your job... Shami is thanks ae disease - a kite monster nb 1, Kobi is better healer and rupter due to much better dex. So long...
I would tell you, if you want play a shami - just reroll a kobi. No group needs a slow troll shami.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 2:06 PM by Afuldan

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Mar 2019 6:13 AM
Afuldan wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:13 PM
I’m not 50 yet (48.5), been testing different combos of MotA and Aug Dex. Rank 4 in each brings my cast speed quite far down compared to without. I know ill be at a disadvantage due to low racial dex. I can live with that.
Well, we talking about an optimum of skill and not how do you make your fun character.

And generally - to hide a shami as a skald is just sweet dream, at least in 5 seconds after inc every enemy knows what class you are.
Kobi with AugDeX and MotA is much more efficient. And to your job... Shami is thanks ae disease - a kite monster nb 1, Kobi is better healer and rupter due to much better dex. So long...
I would tell you, if you want play a shami - just reroll a kobi. No group needs a slow troll shami.

Well than I’ll leave him on farm for now. I’ll reroll after I template I guess.

Forgot troll shammi only became viable after ToA stats.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 2:32 PM by Lev

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Mar 2019 2:06 PM
Well than I’ll leave him on farm for now. I’ll reroll after I template I guess.

Forgot troll shammi only became viable after ToA stats.

well i don't understand that at all.

a shammie needs to buff, disease tank train with his insta and rupt with casts. healing and damage maybe on a duo or trio.
most points are completely unrelated to the race. decisions are much more important than a 0.2s longer cast time.

imo the much bigger drawback to a Troll is the size. nobody can miss click you and in a zerg everyone sees you casting that ae dot. :p
i mean that alone would make me want to reroll.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 5:31 PM by Afuldan

Lev wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Mar 2019 2:32 PM
Afuldan wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Mar 2019 2:06 PM
Well than I’ll leave him on farm for now. I’ll reroll after I template I guess.

Forgot troll shammi only became viable after ToA stats.
well i don't understand that at all.

a shammie needs to buff, disease tank train with his insta and rupt with casts. healing and damage maybe on a duo or trio.
most points are completely unrelated to the race. decisions are much more important than a 0.2s longer cast time.

imo the much bigger drawback to a Troll is the size. nobody can miss click you and in a zerg everyone sees you casting that ae dot. :p
i mean that alone would make me want to reroll.

I rerolled Kobold when I saw that I was having issues with finishing my aoe cast in time while kiting. Sucks to have to go through the levels again though.

Fri 8 Mar 2019 7:20 PM by Stoertebecker

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:13 PM
dudis wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
I disagree about the 8% not making much of a difference. Grains of sand makes a heap.

Most of Alb Groups, even professionals running without elementary resis at all, due to lack of space for a friar in a alb group. So, Resis are good, but not as important.

You can`t compare that with alb groups, mid-groups are running with a shaman anyway, it`s a key-class.
And a shamans role is to buff his group as good as her can and then interrupting like there`s no tomorrow. It`s not a shamans role to heal.

But this stuff was already discussed 15years ago, why is that still a thing here?

Beside the interrupts the shaman is a active played buffbot. But thats ok. If you want more go cave spec, but don`t expect to get invites into groups that often.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 3:32 PM by MacPrior

Stoertebecker wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Mar 2019 7:20 PM
MacPrior wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:13 PM
dudis wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Feb 2019 11:39 PM
I disagree about the 8% not making much of a difference. Grains of sand makes a heap.

Most of Alb Groups, even professionals running without elementary resis at all, due to lack of space for a friar in a alb group. So, Resis are good, but not as important.

You can`t compare that with alb groups, mid-groups are running with a shaman anyway, it`s a key-class.
And a shamans role is to buff his group as good as her can and then interrupting like there`s no tomorrow. It`s not a shamans role to heal.

But this stuff was already discussed 15years ago, why is that still a thing here?

Beside the interrupts the shaman is a active played buffbot. But thats ok. If you want more go cave spec, but don`t expect to get invites into groups that often.

I dont know, dear Stoertenecker, why you qouted my post. I never told, shamis role is a heal. And actually bin fully conform with your opinion:

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 6:13 PM
There are two general good specs possible:
37 Cave /38(37) Aug - Very useful. Alle needs are fulfilled, You cave very efficient. Best spec for 8er group shami on low RR level. with MoA 5-6 you will be able to provide
good buffs for all group.
27 Cave / 46 Aug - Best buffs, but you have to deside, who gets best buffs, who is underbuffed in a group. Very useful for small groups. Cave here is rupt mainly, due to low level of spells - huge part will be resisted. You will need MoF 5 to get +17 for spec Level, +11 on armor, RR5 for max efficient cave usage.