Shadowblade spec - Phoenix Freeshard

How are people speccing here? Is high LA worth it or is it better to go high CS? Never played one before

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:23 PM by Calconious

I'm rocking a 39 CS, 39 Sword, 37 venom/37 stealth, rest LA spec at RR3. Seems to be working out well. Most of the goodies from CS spec and 39 sword for the evade stun.

I was a 44 LA spec to begin with at 50, but I seem to be having more success as the CS spec.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:45 PM by phixion

I've tried high LA and high CS.

I'm now RR6 and using 34CS (for PA and CD) and 39 LA (for doublefrost and the evade chain).

IMO, LA feels better in 1on1 vs melee classes but it takes a bit longer to kill without PA chain.

CS kills faster, but if you end up garrote spamming vs melee you will hate it.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:52 PM by florin

Yes - please keep going 5 spec before rr8. Inf love you long time.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 3:07 PM by phixion

florin wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:52 PM
Yes - please keep going 5 spec before rr8. Inf love you long time.

Having no issues with Infs

Thu 28 Feb 2019 3:12 PM by Ashenspire

I don't understand the hard on for Doublefrost.

Garrote and Achilles Heel are better in every sense.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:20 PM by Stickjoo

So for rr3 if I went 37 stealth 37 env 39 sword would it be better to go 39 cs rest LA or put cs up to 44

Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:52 PM by Calconious

Stickjoo wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 6:20 PM
So for rr3 if I went 37 stealth 37 env 39 sword would it be better to go 39 cs rest LA or put cs up to 44

Either would work. Only reason I dropped mine down to 39 was because I felt I wasn't getting the 44 style off very often in RvR. The + or - from LA spec didn't seem to effect my dmg much at all from what I noticed.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:32 PM by gumby

phixion wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 3:07 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:52 PM
Yes - please keep going 5 spec before rr8. Inf love you long time.

Having no issues with Infs

should have no issues with anything when you just add to r6

Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:57 PM by Kwall0311

50 CS at rr6+ is fun. You can drop sword or axe to comp 52 , the evade stun is a crutch anyway, imo.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 2:08 AM by phixion

gumby wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:32 PM
should have no issues with anything when you just add to r6

And you don't add? Give me a break, I saw you adding on a guy between HMG and AMG in Midgard earlier today. You also camp MMG in Alb with your 10 stealther buddies everyday.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 11:26 AM by Padatoo

When using 1h weapons, there is no point pushing weapon spec past compo 52 - there's 0 (zero) increase in damage modificator, and compo chance to hit (evade * miss rate) goes up by 1.5% (1.015) total, when increasing weapon from compo 52 to compo 64.
The CS Garrote style is similar in numbers to DoubleFrost ,except the defence penalty (it increases enemy chance to hit even further ,bringing it up to 0% miss rate mainhand and 7% offhand) , that penalty makes garrote a shoot-in-your-own-foot style.
Right now (RR4) I am using 48 CS 38 W 12 LA spec,as it is the most damaging in a period of 20s (optimistic length of stealther life),with the assumption that PA opener succeded.
Even on RR4, 50 LA will outdamage 50 CS spec on a condition that PA Opener has failed (and I guess that is the reason for even hib stealthers to drop CS entirely),and the assumption that we dont get garrote followup-style "Achilles Feet" to land (too much miss-evades - either the garrote or its followup will not land).
All the above reasons make me want to spec 50 LA as soon as possible ,maybe will even try it on RR5.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 3:05 PM by kedelin

In Beta i tried 50 LA spec and liked it... especially if you can open bith backstab then the 4 part rear chain really pumped out some dmg... i also faired well toe to toe vs other stealthers just fine with out cs

Fri 1 Mar 2019 4:41 PM by Ashenspire

Padatoo wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 11:26 AM
When using 1h weapons, there is no point pushing weapon spec past compo 52 - there's 0 (zero) increase in damage modificator, and compo chance to hit (evade * miss rate) goes up by 1.5% (1.015) total, when increasing weapon from compo 52 to compo 64.
The CS Garrote style is similar in numbers to DoubleFrost ,except the defence penalty (it increases enemy chance to hit even further ,bringing it up to 0% miss rate mainhand and 7% offhand) , that penalty makes garrote a shoot-in-your-own-foot style.
Right now (RR4) I am using 48 CS 38 W 12 LA spec,as it is the most damaging in a period of 20s (optimistic length of stealther life),with the assumption that PA opener succeded.
Even on RR4, 50 LA will outdamage 50 CS spec on a condition that PA Opener has failed (and I guess that is the reason for even hib stealthers to drop CS entirely),and the assumption that we dont get garrote followup-style "Achilles Feet" to land (too much miss-evades - either the garrote or its followup will not land).
All the above reasons make me want to spec 50 LA as soon as possible ,maybe will even try it on RR5.

That's a lot of bad information there.

Doublefrost has .01 GR more than Garrote. Achilles Heel could be evaded, but every other DF had the same chance of being evaded as well. The moment AH lands, DF falls behind.

Defense penalties are negligible in RvR in terms of effectiveness on an even level enemy with equal gear bonuses.

38 Weapon means no Evade stun. You're sacrificing it for what? Makes absolutely no sense to stop at 38.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:51 PM by gumby

phixion wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 2:08 AM
gumby wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:32 PM
should have no issues with anything when you just add to r6

And you don't add? Give me a break, I saw you adding on a guy between HMG and AMG in Midgard earlier today. You also camp MMG in Alb with your 10 stealther buddies everyday.

lol there is a difference between "adding" 4 mid stealthers vs a solo BM and adding a 1v1. And look at the adder complaining about something I can't control.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 6:40 PM by phixion

gumby wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:51 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 2:08 AM
gumby wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 9:32 PM
should have no issues with anything when you just add to r6

And you don't add? Give me a break, I saw you adding on a guy between HMG and AMG in Midgard earlier today. You also camp MMG in Alb with your 10 stealther buddies everyday.

lol there is a difference between "adding" 4 mid stealthers vs a solo BM and adding a 1v1. And look at the adder complaining about something I can't control.

I'm complaining about adding, you are!

I get rolled all day by stealth groups, 8 mans, zergs... thus I add on everyone else.

It's to be expected, whining about it is akin to madness on this server.

Imagine crying about adders in a Shadowblade spec thread.

Fri 1 Mar 2019 8:56 PM by gumby

phixion wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 6:40 PM
gumby wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 5:51 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 2:08 AM
And you don't add? Give me a break, I saw you adding on a guy between HMG and AMG in Midgard earlier today. You also camp MMG in Alb with your 10 stealther buddies everyday.

lol there is a difference between "adding" 4 mid stealthers vs a solo BM and adding a 1v1. And look at the adder complaining about something I can't control.

I'm complaining about adding, you are!

I get rolled all day by stealth groups, 8 mans, zergs... thus I add on everyone else.

It's to be expected, whining about it is akin to madness on this server.

Imagine crying about adders in a Shadowblade spec thread.

it was a joke not a complaint, it stemmed from you comment of "i have no issue vs infil". "why would u when u just add them all."

Fri 1 Mar 2019 9:06 PM by phixion

gumby wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 8:56 PM
it was a joke not a complaint, it stemmed from you comment of "i have no issue vs infil". "why would u when u just add them all."

WELL, THE JOKE SUCKED!

Sat 2 Mar 2019 12:04 AM by Logan17

How about we get back to topic - I am about to hit level 50 this weekend, am rr2L2 and have no clue if I should rather go for high cs, 5 spec, high LA.
I was thinking of something like 37 stealth, 37 envenom, 39 sword, 39 cs, 25 LA (already planned for rr3).
Would you say this is a legitimate spec I can be successful with early on?

What about Ras? I mean tireless and lw 1 of course and after that? Viper or purge/vanish?

Sat 2 Mar 2019 12:11 AM by Padatoo

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 4:41 PM
Padatoo wrote: ↑
Fri 1 Mar 2019 11:26 AM
old quote

That's a lot of bad information there.

Doublefrost has .01 GR more than Garrote. Achilles Heel could be evaded, but every other DF had the same chance of being evaded as well. The moment AH lands, DF falls behind.

Defense penalties are negligible in RvR in terms of effectiveness on an even level enemy with equal gear bonuses.

38 Weapon means no Evade stun. You're sacrificing it for what? Makes absolutely no sense to stop at 38.

I absolutely agree with you about stopping at 38 not making sense - its a mistake I made ,and I didnt recommend anyone to follow it. The 39 axe Haste debuff can a make a life & death difference in duels with nasty hib goblins.

About the garrrote - I am sorry,but you didnt comprehend well what I wrote about the achilles/garrote combo.
What I meant ,is that - the gain in offence is counterbalanced by the loss in defence,when using garrote.
1.The garrote penalty will take away the remaining 5%-6% MH miss rate and reduce his 16%-17% OH miss to 6%-7% (after applying his +tohit style) ,and so will increase his dmg at you by about 6%-7%.
2.The chance to land both styles is roughly about 49%-50%% (out of 2 hits) and we will optimistically assume that out of 3 landed styles ,1 will be Achilles feet ,that makes us as growth rate of (0,74+0,74+1,03)/3 = 0,83 on average. With 48 points in CS (took the measurement with the same spec) this gives roughly a difference of 4%-5% in DPS,without QUI charge,and when comparing that to DPS of DoubleFrost - you also must include the Damage gain from LA spec (which I state again,outperforms CS specs).
To sum it up: garrote is subpar style compared to DoubleFrost.

Sat 2 Mar 2019 4:53 PM by Slithic

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 3:12 PM
I don't understand the hard on for Doublefrost.

Garrote and Achilles Heel are better in every sense.

On a class that requires EVADE ... which style allows you a better chance to evade?

Garrote -- .74 growth rate, -10 def bonus
Double frost -- .75 growth rate, 0 def bonus

Hmmm.

Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:06 PM by Padatoo

Styles dont reduce chance to evade - they reduce (or increase) chance to miss

Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:10 PM by Afuldan

Padatoo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:06 PM
Styles dont reduce chance to evade - they reduce (or increase) chance to miss

Melee defensive penalties aren’t in effect here?

Sat 2 Mar 2019 10:19 PM by Ashenspire

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:10 PM
Padatoo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:06 PM
Styles dont reduce chance to evade - they reduce (or increase) chance to miss

Melee defensive penalties aren’t in effect here?

Defense penalties have never effected evade, block, or parry. Only hit rate.

Sat 2 Mar 2019 10:55 PM by Slithic

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 10:19 PM
Afuldan wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:10 PM
Padatoo wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:06 PM
Styles dont reduce chance to evade - they reduce (or increase) chance to miss

Melee defensive penalties aren’t in effect here?

Defense penalties have never effected evade, block, or parry. Only hit rate.

Doublefrost
Level34
To Hit Bonus5
Defense Bonus0
RequirementAnytimer
Growth Rate0.75000
Endurance15

Garrote
Level18
To Hit Bonus10
Defense Bonus-10
RequirementAnytimer
Growth Rate0.74000
Endurance15.

Wrong. Do not provide misinformation.

There is a separate to hit chance on each style. It's different then defense.

Sat 2 Mar 2019 11:03 PM by Quik

Slithic wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 10:55 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 10:19 PM
Afuldan wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:10 PM
Melee defensive penalties aren’t in effect here?

Defense penalties have never effected evade, block, or parry. Only hit rate.

Doublefrost
Level34
To Hit Bonus5
Defense Bonus0
RequirementAnytimer
Growth Rate0.75000
Endurance15

Garrote
Level18
To Hit Bonus10
Defense Bonus-10
RequirementAnytimer
Growth Rate0.74000
Endurance15.

Wrong. Do not provide misinformation.

There is a separate to hit chance on each style. It's different then defense.

Ashenspire said it doesn't affect Block, Parry or Evade and as far as I remember back in beta, the dev's said the same thing that style penalties should not affect block, parry, or evade...just to hit.

Sun 3 Mar 2019 7:36 AM by Lanfear

i'd like to have a confirmation

Sun 3 Mar 2019 9:28 PM by Stickjoo

Does the left axe change make speccing higher LA worth it now?

Sun 3 Mar 2019 10:54 PM by Slithic

Time will tell however they buffed all 3 realms in regards to duel wielding.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 12:02 AM by Ashenspire

Slithic wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 10:55 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 10:19 PM
Afuldan wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Mar 2019 8:10 PM
Melee defensive penalties aren’t in effect here?

Defense penalties have never effected evade, block, or parry. Only hit rate.

Doublefrost
Level34
To Hit Bonus5
Defense Bonus0
RequirementAnytimer
Growth Rate0.75000
Endurance15

Garrote
Level18
To Hit Bonus10
Defense Bonus-10
RequirementAnytimer
Growth Rate0.74000
Endurance15.

Wrong. Do not provide misinformation.

There is a separate to hit chance on each style. It's different then defense.

You've said a lot of blatantly wrong things in this thread. You're helping nobody.

To-Hit Bonus means you have an extra percent chance to hit them. If they block/parry/evade it, it means nothing, as to-hit bonus doesn't affect their chance to block/parry/evade,

Defense bonus means you have an extra percent chance for them to hit/miss you. A defense bonus of -10 means they have an additional 10% chance to hit you. If they have a 10% bonus chance on the style they use, this becomes 20% chance. If you block/evade/parry, none of this matter, as it has no affect on any of those things. Only the final hit check, which is the second to last defensive priority check, the last being blade turn.

Combat Resolution order: Evade, Parry, Block, Guard, Hit, Bladeturn with only Hit affected by style modifiers.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 3:50 AM by Majestic_Pellinor

Phixion is one of the harder Shadowblades to fight - I'd probably listen to him. Roll more shadowblades, I'm specifically specced to fight your kind!

Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:37 AM by Warlay

I would recommend this spec for a fresh sb wo hit 50: 50 cs, 39 sword, 37 stealth, 33 envenom

Mon 4 Mar 2019 5:58 AM by Logan17

Warlay wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:37 AM
I would recommend this spec for a fresh sb wo hit 50: 50 cs, 39 sword, 37 stealth, 33 envenom

Could you explain why you would recommend this spec specifically?

Mon 4 Mar 2019 2:20 PM by Seosaidh

Is LA-spec or SZ viable now with the change in scaling of offhand dmg?

If so, what would be the ideal spec? 50 la, 36 stealth, environment, weapon and 12 cs?

Or is a balanced approach around the 5 spec better? I.e. 39 LA or something.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 2:36 PM by Padatoo

I'd say a 5spec is viable at RR5 with 34 cs (for the opener stun) and points taken from envenom,something like this: 35 stealth/37 weapon/34 CS/32-33 envenom / 39-40 LA - must have the 39 after-evade-followup-stun as backup if PA failed.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:17 PM by Slithic

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 12:02 AM
Defense bonus means you have an extra percent chance for them to hit/miss you. A defense bonus of -10 means they have an additional 10% chance to hit you. If they have a 10% bonus chance on the style they use, this becomes 20% chance. If you block/evade/parry, none of this matter, as it has no affect on any of those things. Only the final hit check, which is the second to last defensive priority check, the last being blade turn.

Combat Resolution order: Evade, Parry, Block, Guard, Hit, Bladeturn with only Hit affected by style modifiers.

THIS is what I have been saying. If I use Garrotte with a -10 Def Bous ... on the next round of combat .. does it not HURT my chance to EVADE their next attack?

Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:20 PM by Ashenspire

Slithic wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:17 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 12:02 AM
Defense bonus means you have an extra percent chance for them to hit/miss you. A defense bonus of -10 means they have an additional 10% chance to hit you. If they have a 10% bonus chance on the style they use, this becomes 20% chance. If you block/evade/parry, none of this matter, as it has no affect on any of those things. Only the final hit check, which is the second to last defensive priority check, the last being blade turn.

Combat Resolution order: Evade, Parry, Block, Guard, Hit, Bladeturn with only Hit affected by style modifiers.

THIS is what I have been saying. If I use Garrotte with a -10 Def Bous ... on the next round of combat .. does it not HURT my chance to EVADE their next attack?

Not at all. It has no effect on evade, which is checked before the hit chance.

The system will see if you evade first. If you don't evade, it then checks if the attack will miss or hit.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:25 PM by Slithic

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:20 PM
Slithic wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:17 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 12:02 AM
Defense bonus means you have an extra percent chance for them to hit/miss you. A defense bonus of -10 means they have an additional 10% chance to hit you. If they have a 10% bonus chance on the style they use, this becomes 20% chance. If you block/evade/parry, none of this matter, as it has no affect on any of those things. Only the final hit check, which is the second to last defensive priority check, the last being blade turn.

Combat Resolution order: Evade, Parry, Block, Guard, Hit, Bladeturn with only Hit affected by style modifiers.

THIS is what I have been saying. If I use Garrotte with a -10 Def Bous ... on the next round of combat .. does it not HURT my chance to EVADE their next attack?

Not at all. It has no effect on evade, which is checked before the hit chance.

The system will see if you evade first. If you don't evade, it then checks if the attack will miss or hit.

http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?162941-Style-defense-bonus-testing-and-results

Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:30 PM by Ashenspire

Slithic wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:25 PM
Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:20 PM
Slithic wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:17 PM
THIS is what I have been saying. If I use Garrotte with a -10 Def Bous ... on the next round of combat .. does it not HURT my chance to EVADE their next attack?

Not at all. It has no effect on evade, which is checked before the hit chance.

The system will see if you evade first. If you don't evade, it then checks if the attack will miss or hit.

http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?162941-Style-defense-bonus-testing-and-results

Literally has nothing to do with anything.

Defense bonuses/penalties do not affect evade.

Mon 4 Mar 2019 4:41 PM by Slithic

Cool. Thanks for the information and clarification.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 1:46 AM by Mauriac

the best SB spec is to roll a sneak in either Alb or Mid. The only thing weaker than an SB right now is a hunter. Even after the LA 'buff' if you can even call it that....

Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:17 AM by inoeth

Mauriac wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 1:46 AM
the best SB spec is to roll a sneak in either Alb or Mid. The only thing weaker than an SB right now is a hunter. Even after the LA 'buff' if you can even call it that....

its not a buff its a correction, now it works properly... however dw/cd got buffed they have higher hit chance than ever

Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:23 AM by Cadebrennus

Mauriac wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 1:46 AM
the best SB spec is to roll a sneak in either Alb or Mid. The only thing weaker than an SB right now is a hunter. Even after the LA 'buff' if you can even call it that....

.
.
.
You do realize that Hunter melee damage is equal or greater than Rangers right? And that they are better suited than Scouts or Rangers at controlling a ranged fight, right? This playing the victim BS with Hunters has to stop. It's ridiculous.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:44 AM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:23 AM
Mauriac wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 1:46 AM
the best SB spec is to roll a sneak in either Alb or Mid. The only thing weaker than an SB right now is a hunter. Even after the LA 'buff' if you can even call it that....

.
.
.
You do realize that Hunter melee damage is equal or greater than Rangers right? And that they are better suited than Scouts or Rangers at controlling a ranged fight, right? This playing the victim BS with Hunters has to stop. It's ridiculous.

this is not true
ranger, when blade speced has the upper hand in every melee fight. the pet does not control anything, except vs stupid enemys.

plz make a video how you play op hunter and control ranged fights lol

Tue 5 Mar 2019 9:00 AM by Seosaidh

Would be awesome if SBs could spec to have an after evade stun like NS and INF. If purge is down, that is almost always a deal breaker I feel.

I have been playing with 44 CS currently but I seldom get to use Rib Separation. Been contemplating speccing CS down to 39 and putting the xtra points in LA but still not quite sure.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:07 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:44 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:23 AM
Mauriac wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 1:46 AM
the best SB spec is to roll a sneak in either Alb or Mid. The only thing weaker than an SB right now is a hunter. Even after the LA 'buff' if you can even call it that....

.
.
.
You do realize that Hunter melee damage is equal or greater than Rangers right? And that they are better suited than Scouts or Rangers at controlling a ranged fight, right? This playing the victim BS with Hunters has to stop. It's ridiculous.

this is not true
ranger, when blade speced has the upper hand in every melee fight. the pet does not control anything, except vs stupid enemys.

plz make a video how you play op hunter and control ranged fights lol

https://youtu.be/BNow1Mecu6I

There. Now stop spreading disinformation and falsehoods.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:52 PM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:07 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:44 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:23 AM

.
.
.
You do realize that Hunter melee damage is equal or greater than Rangers right? And that they are better suited than Scouts or Rangers at controlling a ranged fight, right? This playing the victim BS with Hunters has to stop. It's ridiculous.

this is not true
ranger, when blade speced has the upper hand in every melee fight. the pet does not control anything, except vs stupid enemys.

plz make a video how you play op hunter and control ranged fights lol

https://youtu.be/BNow1Mecu6I

There. Now stop spreading disinformation and falsehoods.

where was that a ranged fight? plz stop spreading disinformation and falsehoods.
just loool posting a random vid thats shows nothing you claim... facepalm

Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:40 PM by Mavella

Well at rr5 I have tested a 5 spec(35stl/env, 36sword, 34 crit, 39 LA). Vs 44crit 39sword(for the evade stun I find myself not using often) 35 stl 35 env 24 LA.

Unbuffed on training dummy with 175 str 4.2 main hand 3.2 offhand

The anytime difference between doublefrost and garotte/ah was a bit of a wash if anything because of AH higher growth it would pull away slightly over time.

I also tested 1 LA vs 24 LA and it net me about 8MH and 10OH damage on garrote. So it's. Definitely making a difference there but not a huge one.

There is also a major loss of damage on the opening chain in my opinion if you need an evade stun just use the axe/sword chain rather than speccing 39 LA solely for FG.

At higher RR a high LA build that let's you keep the crit/env goodies might be workable but I feel you have to give up a little too much for no real benefit before r8 imo.

I'd like to test a 50cs build next with minimal LA to see how it compares to 44cs/25ish LA that I can potentially spec now to compare. With how zergy it can be my biggest cocern is the highest damage I can pump out in the shortest amount of time so I can get my ass back in stealth.

Also with everyone having pretty easy access to a 7.5min or 5 min purge that devalues combat stuns quite a bit in my mind. At least compared to the 30min purge days.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:00 PM by Seosaidh

Mavella wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:40 PM
Well at rr5 I have tested a 5 spec(35stl/env, 36sword, 34 crit, 39 LA). Vs 44crit 39sword(for the evade stun I find myself not using often) 35 stl 35 env 24 LA.

Unbuffed on training dummy with 175 str 4.2 main hand 3.2 offhand

The anytime difference between doublefrost and garotte/ah was a bit of a wash if anything because of AH higher growth it would pull away slightly over time.

I also tested 1 LA vs 24 LA and it net me about 8MH and 10OH damage on garrote. So it's. Definitely making a difference there but not a huge one.

There is also a major loss of damage on the opening chain in my opinion if you need an evade stun just use the axe/sword chain rather than speccing 39 LA solely for FG.

At higher RR a high LA build that let's you keep the crit/env goodies might be workable but I feel you have to give up a little too much for no real benefit before r8 imo.

I'd like to test a 50cs build next with minimal LA to see how it compares to 44cs/25ish LA that I can potentially spec now to compare. With how zergy it can be my biggest cocern is the highest damage I can pump out in the shortest amount of time so I can get my ass back in stealth.

Also with everyone having pretty easy access to a 7.5min or 5 min purge that devalues combat stuns quite a bit in my mind. At least compared to the 30min purge days.

Great info Mavella, ty. I am also seeing myself not using that stun that much. I think just using the Hamstring-combo is better for straight up dmg. Wha tdo you think?

Also, have you been able to test whether the -Defense that Garrotte gives affects the numbers in a singificant manner vs Doublefrost? Or does the -Defense only give an attacker a great to Hit chance?

Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:04 PM by Ashenspire

Seosaidh wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:00 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:40 PM
Well at rr5 I have tested a 5 spec(35stl/env, 36sword, 34 crit, 39 LA). Vs 44crit 39sword(for the evade stun I find myself not using often) 35 stl 35 env 24 LA.

Unbuffed on training dummy with 175 str 4.2 main hand 3.2 offhand

The anytime difference between doublefrost and garotte/ah was a bit of a wash if anything because of AH higher growth it would pull away slightly over time.

I also tested 1 LA vs 24 LA and it net me about 8MH and 10OH damage on garrote. So it's. Definitely making a difference there but not a huge one.

There is also a major loss of damage on the opening chain in my opinion if you need an evade stun just use the axe/sword chain rather than speccing 39 LA solely for FG.

At higher RR a high LA build that let's you keep the crit/env goodies might be workable but I feel you have to give up a little too much for no real benefit before r8 imo.

I'd like to test a 50cs build next with minimal LA to see how it compares to 44cs/25ish LA that I can potentially spec now to compare. With how zergy it can be my biggest cocern is the highest damage I can pump out in the shortest amount of time so I can get my ass back in stealth.

Also with everyone having pretty easy access to a 7.5min or 5 min purge that devalues combat stuns quite a bit in my mind. At least compared to the 30min purge days.

Great info Mavella, ty. I am also seeing myself not using that stun that much. I think just using the Hamstring-combo is better for straight up dmg. Wha tdo you think?

Also, have you been able to test whether the -Defense that Garrotte gives affects the numbers in a singificant manner vs Doublefrost? Or does the -Defense only give an attacker a great to Hit chance?

Defense penalties only affect hit chance. Garrote has a 10% penalty, which isn't calculated until after you evade anyway. It's not something worth worrying about.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:15 PM by Seosaidh

Ashenspire wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:04 PM
Seosaidh wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:00 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:40 PM
Well at rr5 I have tested a 5 spec(35stl/env, 36sword, 34 crit, 39 LA). Vs 44crit 39sword(for the evade stun I find myself not using often) 35 stl 35 env 24 LA.

Unbuffed on training dummy with 175 str 4.2 main hand 3.2 offhand

The anytime difference between doublefrost and garotte/ah was a bit of a wash if anything because of AH higher growth it would pull away slightly over time.

I also tested 1 LA vs 24 LA and it net me about 8MH and 10OH damage on garrote. So it's. Definitely making a difference there but not a huge one.

There is also a major loss of damage on the opening chain in my opinion if you need an evade stun just use the axe/sword chain rather than speccing 39 LA solely for FG.

At higher RR a high LA build that let's you keep the crit/env goodies might be workable but I feel you have to give up a little too much for no real benefit before r8 imo.

I'd like to test a 50cs build next with minimal LA to see how it compares to 44cs/25ish LA that I can potentially spec now to compare. With how zergy it can be my biggest cocern is the highest damage I can pump out in the shortest amount of time so I can get my ass back in stealth.

Also with everyone having pretty easy access to a 7.5min or 5 min purge that devalues combat stuns quite a bit in my mind. At least compared to the 30min purge days.

Great info Mavella, ty. I am also seeing myself not using that stun that much. I think just using the Hamstring-combo is better for straight up dmg. Wha tdo you think?

Also, have you been able to test whether the -Defense that Garrotte gives affects the numbers in a singificant manner vs Doublefrost? Or does the -Defense only give an attacker a great to Hit chance?

Defense penalties only affect hit chance. Garrote has a 10% penalty, which isn't calculated until after you evade anyway. It's not something worth worrying about.

Ah, great. Thanks for the clarification.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:32 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:52 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:07 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 7:44 AM
this is not true
ranger, when blade speced has the upper hand in every melee fight. the pet does not control anything, except vs stupid enemys.

plz make a video how you play op hunter and control ranged fights lol

https://youtu.be/BNow1Mecu6I

There. Now stop spreading disinformation and falsehoods.

where was that a ranged fight? plz stop spreading disinformation and falsehoods.
just loool posting a random vid thats shows nothing you claim... facepalm

The Scout tried the slam and get distance technique. The dog prevents that even if that Scout was smart enough to snare me immediately after the Slam, which he wasn't.

From all of your posts it's just obvious that you're a troll who really doesn't know much. Because of that I'm just going to ignore you and your trolling posts from now on.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 9:06 PM by Mavella

Seosaidh wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:00 PM
Great info Mavella, ty. I am also seeing myself not using that stun that much. I think just using the Hamstring-combo is better for straight up dmg. Wha tdo you think?

Hamstring chain will blow any other evade reactionary combo out of the water. My concern is I probably hit the third in the chain a handful of times in a night how many times would I get the full combo off? Very few.

There's probably a sweet spot for high CS and remainder in LA for maximum dps but I don't have enough money to test all combinations that's for sure!

In retrospect I wish I had tested damage between 39CS and 44CS which would've given me a a good idea the damage difference that 44 to 50 would've netted. Oh well.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:53 PM by Pops999

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:32 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:52 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:07 PM
https://youtu.be/BNow1Mecu6I

There. Now stop spreading disinformation and falsehoods.

where was that a ranged fight? plz stop spreading disinformation and falsehoods.
just loool posting a random vid thats shows nothing you claim... facepalm

The Scout tried the slam and get distance technique. The dog prevents that even if that Scout was smart enough to snare me immediately after the Slam, which he wasn't.

From all of your posts it's just obvious that you're a troll who really doesn't know much. Because of that I'm just going to ignore you and your trolling posts from now on.

You started in melee, there was no range at all. Start that fight at range and show us how to control the fight.

Tue 5 Mar 2019 11:50 PM by Hyjinxxx

So I’m confused. Garrote..

The -10 to hit is YOUR ability to hit decreases? (Your personal weaponskill)

Or the -10 to hit is YOUR ability to evade decreases? (Your personal defense)

I.e...

I use garrote, damn, now I’m probably gonna miss my next attack..?

OR

I use garrote, damn, they’re definitely gonna hit me on the next attack..?

Wed 6 Mar 2019 12:08 AM by Afuldan

Hyjinxxx wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 11:50 PM
So I’m confused. Garrote..

The -10 to hit is YOUR ability to hit decreases? (Your personal weaponskill)

Or the -10 to hit is YOUR ability to evade decreases? (Your personal defense)

I.e...

I use garrote, damn, now I’m probably gonna miss my next attack..?

OR

I use garrote, damn, they’re definitely gonna hit me on the next attack..?

The combat style defensive modifier is only applied after your normal evade/block/parry chances. You see the miss% when you miss an attack, not have it evaded, parried or blocked? It only effects that number. The evade/parry/block defense % stays the same.

E: the miss% is checked after all other defensive checks.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 12:45 AM by Mavella

https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/to-hit-mechanics

I found this online which should help explain how these bonuses and penalties apply.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 6:25 AM by Cadebrennus

Pops999 wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:53 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:32 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:52 PM
where was that a ranged fight? plz stop spreading disinformation and falsehoods.
just loool posting a random vid thats shows nothing you claim... facepalm

The Scout tried the slam and get distance technique. The dog prevents that even if that Scout was smart enough to snare me immediately after the Slam, which he wasn't.

From all of your posts it's just obvious that you're a troll who really doesn't know much. Because of that I'm just going to ignore you and your trolling posts from now on.

You started in melee, there was no range at all. Start that fight at range and show us how to control the fight.

I started at half the Scout's bow range. I could have simply pulled out the bow and started plinking. If the Scout had half a brain he would engage. If it was a Ranger I would absolutely go with the bow since his melee would be almost as good as mine on a Hunter. Back to the Scout: I negated any ranged advantage the Scout may have had simply by calling up the dog less than 1000 units from the Scout. Ranged mastery. I then chose to finish the fight in pure melee because to me it's more fun. The Scout tried to get range on me but I took that opportunity away with the dog. Period. Again, ranged mastery.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 7:10 AM by inoeth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:32 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:52 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 6:07 PM
https://youtu.be/BNow1Mecu6I

There. Now stop spreading disinformation and falsehoods.

where was that a ranged fight? plz stop spreading disinformation and falsehoods.
just loool posting a random vid thats shows nothing you claim... facepalm

The Scout tried the slam and get distance technique. The dog prevents that even if that Scout was smart enough to snare me immediately after the Slam, which he wasn't.

From all of your posts it's just obvious that you're a troll who really doesn't know much. Because of that I'm just going to ignore you and your trolling posts from now on.

no the dog did nothing? you used speed, the dog arrived much later lol... better watch your own video again ;D

ot: atm i run 34 cs 48 la 35 sword 24 envenom 35 stealth. my tactic is using garotte+achilles heel for ASR then switch to doublefrost.... works pretty ok imo.
but no chance vs rr6+ slash infils and ns, they do as much dmg with MH as i do with both hands.... ridiculous

Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:44 PM by Slithic

Has anyone tempted the RNG Gods on this server yet ... and just played a 2handed critblade? How do they fair against bladeshades?

You claim no chance with 2 weapons .. what about 1?

Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:56 PM by Afuldan

Slithic wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:44 PM
Has anyone tempted the RNG Gods on this server yet ... and just played a 2handed critblade? How do they fair against bladeshades?

You claim no chance with 2 weapons .. what about 1?

I was wondering how a 2hd SB with high mop might do.

Wed 6 Mar 2019 3:02 PM by inoeth

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:56 PM
Slithic wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 2:44 PM
Has anyone tempted the RNG Gods on this server yet ... and just played a 2handed critblade? How do they fair against bladeshades?

You claim no chance with 2 weapons .. what about 1?

I was wondering how a 2hd SB with high mop might do.

propably very bad since 2h vs evade is very bad

Wed 6 Mar 2019 11:17 PM by Pops999

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 6:25 AM
Pops999 wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:53 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 8:32 PM
The Scout tried the slam and get distance technique. The dog prevents that even if that Scout was smart enough to snare me immediately after the Slam, which he wasn't.

From all of your posts it's just obvious that you're a troll who really doesn't know much. Because of that I'm just going to ignore you and your trolling posts from now on.

You started in melee, there was no range at all. Start that fight at range and show us how to control the fight.

I started at half the Scout's bow range. I could have simply pulled out the bow and started plinking. If the Scout had half a brain he would engage. If it was a Ranger I would absolutely go with the bow since his melee would be almost as good as mine on a Hunter. Back to the Scout: I negated any ranged advantage the Scout may have had simply by calling up the dog less than 1000 units from the Scout. Ranged mastery. I then chose to finish the fight in pure melee because to me it's more fun. The Scout tried to get range on me but I took that opportunity away with the dog. Period. Again, ranged mastery.

Again how was ranged negated? Both of you chose to melee. You charged he stealthed, he pops out in melee range and you go at it. No one bothered with their bow.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 1:35 AM by Cadebrennus

Pops999 wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 11:17 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Mar 2019 6:25 AM
Pops999 wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Mar 2019 10:53 PM
You started in melee, there was no range at all. Start that fight at range and show us how to control the fight.

I started at half the Scout's bow range. I could have simply pulled out the bow and started plinking. If the Scout had half a brain he would engage. If it was a Ranger I would absolutely go with the bow since his melee would be almost as good as mine on a Hunter. Back to the Scout: I negated any ranged advantage the Scout may have had simply by calling up the dog less than 1000 units from the Scout. Ranged mastery. I then chose to finish the fight in pure melee because to me it's more fun. The Scout tried to get range on me but I took that opportunity away with the dog. Period. Again, ranged mastery.

Again how was ranged negated? Both of you chose to melee. You charged he stealthed, he pops out in melee range and you go at it. No one bothered with their bow.

I'll give you one good guess as to why a Scout would Slam then run to gain distance. Just one guess.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 1:46 PM by Pops999

Since you just love to reply, I'll jerk your strings again. So what? Your little vid wasn't much proof of a RANGE battle at all.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 2:03 PM by Victos

I think what he means, and tries to show with the video, by saying "controlling a ranged fight" is - not - shooting at each other and see who's better.

Rather that given the same situation a ranger would've been slammed, the scout runs away, the scout then reopens with his bow. This, granted the video isn't exactly the best example as he purged - before - he summoned his pet (which a ranger would've done aswell and thereby either force the scout into melee or just shoot arrows up his ass), however is preventable by the hunter's pet alone. The pet is easily able to run at the target and rupt the ranged fight, which either forces a melee fight or flat out wins the fight in case the target is a caster that already used quickcast.

I think if he summoned his pet before slam and just stood there while being stunned the situation would've been more clear, as then the pet would've single handedly forced the scout to stay in melee unless the scout slams both.

Or I'm missing the point aswell.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 2:09 PM by Sepplord

could we come back to the topic?
This thread started the discussion of SB speccs and for quite a few pages you have been going back and forth with personal insults/trollings/off-topic discussions and more and more are chiming in talking about how hunters control ranged fights or don't...

There is a Thread called "state of hunters" directly below this one, maybe you guys could copy your discussion there, and delete the respective comments in this thread to save a mod the work

Thu 7 Mar 2019 2:52 PM by Victos

My view on SB:
50 composite stealth is a given m
50 composite envenom - was - a given but with the upcoming nerf it's somewhat up for personal preference, would still recommend 50 composite.

Weapon is eithet sword to 39 or axe to 34+ unless you went 39+ LA. 52 composite weapon regardless.

CS I would go 34 or higher unless you want full shadowzerk, which I wouldn't recommend due to the missing side stun.

In the end this boils down to something in the realm of what Phixion said in the very beginning of the thread.

Thu 7 Mar 2019 3:53 PM by Lev

i like this thread. some useful discussion, a lot of offtopic and very few complete SB specs on 70 replies.

two specs for beginners, aimed at RR3
https://playphoenix.online/charplan/index.html?class=Shadowblade&level=50&realmRank=41&view=skills&s13=34&s31=37&s33=34&s77=35&s80=39
LA stun and highest debuff, but lost some base dmg. can use garrote or DF as anytimer.

https://playphoenix.online/charplan/index.html?class=Shadowblade&level=50&realmRank=41&view=skills&s6=39&s13=37&s31=37&s33=34&s80=32
sword stun, all poisons, but lost some dmg due to lower LA (7x0.86% to be exact, if the calc can be used like this). only garrote as anytimer.

this same old spec for RR5
https://playphoenix.online/charplan/index.html?class=Shadowblade&level=50&realmRank=41&view=skills&s13=35&s31=35&s33=34&s77=36&s80=39
around for 15+ years. gets even better with higher RR.

yes, my specs are not new at all, but maybe some players just want to see the whole spec instead of the instructions on how to make a good one. :p

Thu 7 Mar 2019 8:50 PM by jelzinga_EU

My spec : https://playphoenix.online/charplan/index.html?class=Shadowblade&level=50&realmRank=41&view=skills&s6=39&s13=35&s31=35&s33=44&s80=24

Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:32 AM by inoeth

Lev wrote: ↑
Thu 7 Mar 2019 3:53 PM
i like this thread. some useful discussion, a lot of offtopic and very few complete SB specs on 70 replies.

two specs for beginners, aimed at RR3
https://playphoenix.online/charplan/index.html?class=Shadowblade&level=50&realmRank=41&view=skills&s13=34&s31=37&s33=34&s77=35&s80=39
LA stun and highest debuff, but lost some base dmg. can use garrote or DF as anytimer.

https://playphoenix.online/charplan/index.html?class=Shadowblade&level=50&realmRank=41&view=skills&s6=39&s13=37&s31=37&s33=34&s80=32
sword stun, all poisons, but lost some dmg due to lower LA (7x0.86% to be exact, if the calc can be used like this). only garrote as anytimer.

this same old spec for RR5
https://playphoenix.online/charplan/index.html?class=Shadowblade&level=50&realmRank=41&view=skills&s13=35&s31=35&s33=34&s77=36&s80=39
around for 15+ years. gets even better with higher RR.

yes, my specs are not new at all, but maybe some players just want to see the whole spec instead of the instructions on how to make a good one. :p

your numbers are wrong its .54.... your number applies to dw/cd chance

Wed 13 Mar 2019 9:32 AM by Kimahri

After the envenom nerf, soulblade is the best spec imo (at higher rr).

50 composite stealth
52 composite weapon
34 CS
50 left axe
Rest envenom

Wed 13 Mar 2019 12:27 PM by Spewy

I totally agree it's insane NS & INFIL hit way harder than use with MH and I am rank 5L+

Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:48 PM by phixion

Currently running 34CS 44LA, loving it...

Wed 13 Mar 2019 3:58 PM by Spewy

we talked about it yesterday....

I am 29+15 you are 44+17 in LA, your off hand is hitting 10DMG more (38 vs 48) on the same target.

10 more dmg only......

Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:00 PM by Xunn

did you check the MH damage? LA changes it also

Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:10 PM by Spewy

Xunn wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:00 PM
did you check the MH damage? LA changes it also

yes,

he double forst at 122. I Garrot at 112 but Achilles at 127

Him: 122 + 48 x 2 = 340

Me: 112 + 38 + 127 + 38 = 315

I was on +39 str/con, I dont know if he was with +75 but I am rank 5L2 he is 7L9

But its not the point, LA is broken on this server. 10DMG diff between our both level should be.

100% of NS/INFIL is hitting harder than me. (than us)

I dont say I am losing every time but they hit harder, way harder its a fact.

Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:21 PM by Xunn

Spewy wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:10 PM
Xunn wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:00 PM
did you check the MH damage? LA changes it also

yes,

he double forst at 122. I Garrot at 112 but Achilles at 127

Him: 122 + 48 x 2 = 340

Me: 112 + 38 + 127 + 38 = 315

I was on +39 str/con, I dont know if he was with +75 but I am rank 5L2 he is 7L9

But its not the point, LA is broken on this server. 10DMG diff between our both level should be.

100% of NS/INFIL is hitting harder than me. (than us)

I dont say I am losing every time but they hit harder, way harder its a fact.

I don't argue about INFI/NS, but ur reported tests don't seem very reasonable.

For example, what is this?
Him: 122 + 48 x 2 = 340

Me: 112 + 38 + 127 + 38 = 315
EDIT: figured out

Also, I could be wrong but if LA is a scaling % value, not a fixed value increase, are you sure MH and OH grow the same (+10)? Are they same speed?

Wed 13 Mar 2019 6:32 PM by Kimahri

The true advantage of speccing 50 LA is that sexy aurora borealis style

Thu 14 Mar 2019 12:09 AM by Padatoo

Spewy wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:10 PM
Xunn wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:00 PM
did you check the MH damage? LA changes it also

yes,

he double forst at 122. I Garrot at 112 but Achilles at 127

Him: 122 + 48 x 2 = 340

Me: 112 + 38 + 127 + 38 = 315

I was on +39 str/con, I dont know if he was with +75 but I am rank 5L2 he is 7L9

But its not the point, LA is broken on this server. 10DMG diff between our both level should be.

100% of NS/INFIL is hitting harder than me. (than us)

I dont say I am losing every time but they hit harder, way harder its a fact.

I went over this already ,but I will repeat again in here: garrote is a shit style that hits you back with the defence penatly - the minor increase in dps (when you do hit with achilles - chance to hit an average infi/ns with both garrote & achilles is about 50%) is negated by loss in hp (you basically allow them to hit you 5% more with mainhand and 10% more with offhand).
Doublefrost is a better anytimer then garrote&achill and LA spec is generally better then CS & sword/axe in both DPS and utility.
CS has a slight advantage of a heavier PA opener,which helps you on a condition that you land it

. Speccing High CS makes Shadowblade practically a one-trick-pony,although low-RR Sb's have no other choice.
Here are notable LA styles:
2 chain evade stun (its better then the sword one ) ;
back style chain (the first style is enouph to dish some good dps,way better then garrote);
Anytimer Doublefrost ofcourse;
Polar Light - lvl 8 off-evade haste debuff ,with very good bonuses and growth rate and a followup.

Thu 14 Mar 2019 8:56 AM by Xunn

Padatoo wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Mar 2019 12:09 AM
Spewy wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:10 PM
Xunn wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:00 PM
did you check the MH damage? LA changes it also

yes,

he double forst at 122. I Garrot at 112 but Achilles at 127

Him: 122 + 48 x 2 = 340

Me: 112 + 38 + 127 + 38 = 315

I was on +39 str/con, I dont know if he was with +75 but I am rank 5L2 he is 7L9

But its not the point, LA is broken on this server. 10DMG diff between our both level should be.

100% of NS/INFIL is hitting harder than me. (than us)

I dont say I am losing every time but they hit harder, way harder its a fact.

I went over this already ,but I will repeat again in here: garrote is a shit style that hits you back with the defence penatly - the minor increase in dps (when you do hit with achilles - chance to hit an average infi/ns with both garrote & achilles is about 50%) is negated by loss in hp (you basically allow them to hit you 5% more with mainhand and 10% more with offhand).
Doublefrost is a better anytimer then garrote&achill and LA spec is generally better then CS & sword/axe in both DPS and utility.
CS has a slight advantage of a heavier PA opener,which helps you on a condition that you land it . Speccing High CS makes Shadowblade practically a one-trick-pony,although low-RR Sb's have no other choice.
Here are notable LA styles:
2 chain evade stun (its better then the sword one ) ;
back style chain (the first style is enouph to dish some good dps,way better then garrote);
Anytimer Doublefrost ofcourse;
Polar Light - lvl 8 off-evade haste debuff ,with very good bonuses and growth rate and a followup.

Thank you, this is the very clear situation about CS and LA.

Since on low rank we can't have a decent LA and 34 CS spec (assuming comp 50 stealth, envenom, 52 weapon), and because I don't want to kill exping/walking people until RR7, what do you think about a lower envenom spec? Also considering the poison nerf and the constant purges.

Something like 44 LA and 28-30 envenom or even 50LA and 15 envenom

Thu 14 Mar 2019 9:36 AM by Padatoo

Xunn wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Mar 2019 8:56 AM
Padatoo wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Mar 2019 12:09 AM
Spewy wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Mar 2019 4:10 PM
yes,

he double forst at 122. I Garrot at 112 but Achilles at 127

Him: 122 + 48 x 2 = 340

Me: 112 + 38 + 127 + 38 = 315

I was on +39 str/con, I dont know if he was with +75 but I am rank 5L2 he is 7L9

But its not the point, LA is broken on this server. 10DMG diff between our both level should be.

100% of NS/INFIL is hitting harder than me. (than us)

I dont say I am losing every time but they hit harder, way harder its a fact.

I went over this already ,but I will repeat again in here: garrote is a shit style that hits you back with the defence penatly - the minor increase in dps (when you do hit with achilles - chance to hit an average infi/ns with both garrote & achilles is about 50%) is negated by loss in hp (you basically allow them to hit you 5% more with mainhand and 10% more with offhand).
Doublefrost is a better anytimer then garrote&achill and LA spec is generally better then CS & sword/axe in both DPS and utility.
CS has a slight advantage of a heavier PA opener,which helps you on a condition that you land it . Speccing High CS makes Shadowblade practically a one-trick-pony,although low-RR Sb's have no other choice.
Here are notable LA styles:
2 chain evade stun (its better then the sword one ) ;
back style chain (the first style is enouph to dish some good dps,way better then garrote);
Anytimer Doublefrost ofcourse;
Polar Light - lvl 8 off-evade haste debuff ,with very good bonuses and growth rate and a followup.

Thank you, this is the very clear situation about CS and LA.

Since on low rank we can't have a decent LA and 34 CS spec (assuming comp 50 stealth, envenom, 52 weapon), and because I don't want to kill exping/walking people until RR7, what do you think about a lower envenom spec? Also considering the poison nerf and the constant purges.

Something like 44 LA and 28-30 envenom or even 50LA and 15 envenom

Lowering envenom makes poison resist rate go up.
Imo its fine to lower the composite envenom to 48 (but not lower) and it allows to have 34cs 39 La 36 wep spec on RR4 (36 weapon makes it compo 50,which makes you lose about 4-5% melee dps)

Thu 14 Mar 2019 11:01 AM by Xunn

probably not worth on RR4, but a viable RR5 spec could be this?
35 stealth
37 sword/axe (to comp 52 and not lose the dps)
34 CS
40 LA
33 envenom (for the 48 comp)

Thanks

Thu 14 Mar 2019 11:19 AM by Padatoo

Xunn wrote: ↑
Thu 14 Mar 2019 11:01 AM
probably not worth on RR4, but a viable RR5 spec could be this?
35 stealth
37 sword/axe (to comp 52 and not lose the dps)
34 CS
40 LA
33 envenom (for the 48 comp)

Thanks

That is my spec

Thu 14 Mar 2019 12:04 PM by Spewy

weird template.

Sat 16 Mar 2019 4:07 PM by phixion

I did try CS spec again and just didn't like it, not sure what it is about it but I tend to do worse with it.

I like having 34CS for CD, once that's done I'm happier using LA styles.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 4:37 PM by Dreldan

So for a newer SB who is nearing RR4 would this be a decent spec?

https://playphoenix.online/charplan/index.html?class=Shadowblade&level=50&realmRank=30&view=skills&s6=38&s13=36&s31=36&s33=34&s80=36

Stealth 36 (+14) 50
Sword 38 (+14) 52
Crit 34 (+14) 48
LA 36 (+14) 50
Env 36 (+14) 50

I'm assuming +11 from gear and +3 from RR4 Is this possible?
Had a few points left over which i added to LA But could be placed elsewhere.
34 in CS gives me PA + Creeping death
34 in LA gets me Double frost
And i get my composite 52 for MH which from what i gather is required and 50 stealth/env composite.

I'm new to this please critique me.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 5:14 PM by Mavella

I think higher CS is better at low RR. Doublefrost isn't going to hit very hard with only 34 in LA.

I think the go to spec for RR4 is

44CS
38 or 39 sword(39 if you want the stun style, I hardly ever used it)
36env
36stl
21-22 in LA

Landing the full perf chain on visibles gives you a large leg up. Opening a fight on another stealther with perf is also strong but obviously takes more skill. Hammie chain also does a ton of damage and Garotte/AH will do more dps than doublefrost spam with a 5 spec. Keep 39 sword if you want the stun chain.

I think at higher RR you can work a high LA spec and keep most of the good stuff from CS but it isn't worth giving up the damage and utility at lower RR.

Tue 26 Mar 2019 11:27 PM by Dreldan

Mavella wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 5:14 PM
I think higher CS is better at low RR. Doublefrost isn't going to hit very hard with only 34 in LA.

I think the go to spec for RR4 is

44CS
38 or 39 sword(39 if you want the stun style, I hardly ever used it)
36env
36stl
21-22 in LA

Landing the full perf chain on visibles gives you a large leg up. Opening a fight on another stealther with perf is also strong but obviously takes more skill. Hammie chain also does a ton of damage and Garotte/AH will do more dps than doublefrost spam with a 5 spec. Keep 39 sword if you want the stun chain.

I think at higher RR you can work a high LA spec and keep most of the good stuff from CS but it isn't worth giving up the damage and utility at lower RR.

Ok, does having a higher composite Crit skill help PA and those abilities? I'm working on Temping my character and wondering if i should forget trying to get +CS skill and instead go for LA so i can semi future proof my Temp

Tue 26 Mar 2019 11:48 PM by Mavella

I'm almost positive +CS matters. You can't really skimp on any +skills with this class unfortunately.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:15 PM by jelzinga_EU

Mavella wrote: ↑
Tue 26 Mar 2019 11:48 PM
I'm almost positive +CS matters. You can't really skimp on any +skills with this class unfortunately.

Correct, +CS improves style-bonus for all styles used in CS (e.g. Hamstring, Garrote, Leaper, etc)

For PA it is special, it is : Perforate Artery Cap = 75 + Critical Strike Spec * 9 + Nonstyle Cap

so for every +CS you get 9 additional damage on PA cap. If you hit roughly for 50% of your cap on a clothie, it is about 5 additional dmg per +CS in practice.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:25 PM by Dreldan

Thank you for all the advice/input, this thread has been very helpful.

What are people's opinions on RA's? Which should i go for first?

Also, what are some must have "charge" items and potions etc for an SB?

Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:32 PM by Mavella

Potions: combined forces, speed, shard skin, endurance regen. Heal potions.

Charges: 75 str/con and dex/qui. Spec af charge(epic vest), ablative charge is nice to have precast.

Situational: legion heal charge, DD charges to interrupt at range, 30sec duration DA charge.

RAs - lw/tireless, purge4-5 is a must, Vanish is optional but nice. MoPain and Aug str.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:44 PM by Dreldan

Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:32 PM
Charges: 75 str/con and dex/qui. Spec af charge(epic vest), ablative charge is nice to have precast.

And what are the name of some items that have these charges that i can get?

Wed 27 Mar 2019 4:04 PM by Mavella

Dreldan wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:44 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Mar 2019 2:32 PM
Charges: 75 str/con and dex/qui. Spec af charge(epic vest), ablative charge is nice to have precast.

And what are the name of some items that have these charges that i can get?

I cant remember the names of all of them but I'm fairly sure if you go to the market explorer and search by proc effect and search jewelry/cloaks/gems you'll find what's out there. I'm sure others will chime in.

Wed 27 Mar 2019 7:35 PM by grated

What do y'all think about mastery of arms?

Wed 27 Mar 2019 8:19 PM by Mavella

In my opinion Aug str and mop are significantly more important for damage. We already have haste pots. And haste built in with LA doing slow/fast weapon set up. I know I'm at about 1.99/swing when buffed with my set up which I'm happy with.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 3:55 PM by Monkies

I tried the high CS spec both on beta and here on live and I struggled with it. I’m 5 spec now with 35 on all skills except I have LA at 39. Interestingly enough I prefer using the CS styles to the LA styles and feel like I get in, get the job done and get out faster using the hamstring/leaper chain. I also don’t want my target to purge so unless I can couple a stun with the pa or bs chain I avoid follow up stuns from The LA line. The evade styles in the CS line hit very hard and carve off chunks of a targets health. I suppose it comes down to whatever you’re comfortable with. I don’t worry about the garrote defense penalty because in 90% of my fights it’s over one way or the other in 3-4 rounds.

Monkies/Dogbyte

Thu 28 Mar 2019 6:14 PM by phixion

I capped my combat speed with 4.2/2.9 and moa9, but honestly it didn't do well. It's nice hitting that 1.5s swing speed cap but it doesn't make up for damage lost through MoP and Aug Str.

2 Strength appears to = 1 extra damage, so Aug Str is a nice boost.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 7:48 PM by Aronox

phixion wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 6:14 PM
2 Strength appears to = 1 extra damage, so Aug Str is a nice boost.

Coundnt confirm on that, but here i will share all my experience after doing lots of test with my SB:

Skills:
- 52 is really the hardcap in terms of mainhand dmg. only the weaponskill will increase by getting >52 in mainhand
- There are some "break points" where +la or +mainhand doesnt increase the dmg. For example for me (as RR7 SB) its no difference between 43 or 44 in la
- Left-axe styles does no additional dmg to offhand

RA's:
- aug-str completly useless, because the difference between augstr0 vs. augstr9 is 13 dmg in total
- viper dmg is better than the dmg which comes from mop (crits which pops up in the same time as the 5 dot ticks)

Detailed documentation here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10fvz0Vq_bZV7ZlQ3IFAYVrmK7Yo3uLWMrv3qm2GHU_Q/edit?usp=sharing

In my opinion the tests definitely showed that the dmg of shadowblades are absolutely bad in comparison to infi/ns!

Greets

Aronox

Thu 28 Mar 2019 7:56 PM by Monkies

I agree the SBs are the low end of the damage scale. I notice I hit nightshades for around 135 mh and they turn around and hit me for 150 and they swing faster. Nidar hits me for almost 180 a shot mh. I had to make some adjustments to be competitive as a solo SB.

Monkies/Dogbyte

Thu 28 Mar 2019 8:07 PM by phixion

I think the discrepancy comes from you testing without styles and me testing with.

I tend to test with styles because that's what I will use on the battlefield.

I'm pretty sure I've seen OH damage raise with LA spec.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 8:30 PM by Mavella

I think your doing Aug str a disservice in that the mainhand portion of the damage you quote is also going to be multipled by style bonus every swing and over the 20sec of life bane depending on what styles you're able to get off is going to give potentially significantly more damage. It's also going to increase that offhand damage slightly which is also a bonus. It's going to increase your weaponskill allowing for better defense penetration. It's also going to allow for harder crits. Less evades for them means less getting stunned or eating hamstring chain styles for you which is a good thing.

Viper 5 gives you an additional 13.3dps over regular life bane with zero other benefit

Edit: 1point in LA is also almost meaningless(unless it's getting you a new style you plan to use of course) it impacts both the mainhand and offhand less than 1% enough to potentially not get rounded up to the next number lol.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 8:36 PM by Riac

Mavella wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 8:30 PM
I think your doing Aug str a disservice in that the mainhand portion of the damage you quote is also going to be multipled by style bonus every swing and over the 20sec of life bane depending on what styles you're able to get off is going to give potentially significantly more damage. It's also going to increase that offhand damage slightly which is also a bonus. It's going to increase your weaponskill allowing for better defense penetration. It's also going to allow for harder crits. Less evades for them means less getting stunned or eating hamstring chain styles for you which is a good thing.

Viper 5 gives you an additional 13.3dps over regular life bane with zero other benefit

Edit: 1point in LA is also almost meaningless(unless it's getting you a new style you plan to use of course) it impacts both the mainhand and offhand less than 1% enough to potentially not get rounded up to the next number lol.

what about the difference between 44la and 47 or 49 la? im not sure if i should just leave la @ 44 and dump all the rest into cs or not. i could bring cs from 21 to 30.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 8:48 PM by Mavella

I assume the only thing from CS you really use is perf/BS2. It's going to give you a slightly harder hits on those and that's it. More LA will obviously improve your base damage and increase your damage on all LA styles.

If you get to the point where you can get 34cs and drop LA down to like 44 that might not be a bad idea as perf+CD obviously gives you a big leg up on the opener if they don't purge.

Ultimately if you want to use LA styles you want 44+ LA imo. Unfortunately at <RR8 that means giving up the CS toys from the most part which is why I advocate for 44cs for lower RR sb you'll get tangible gains on your damage as you pump up LA over the RRs and get to keep the full perf chain. The major decision is to keep 39 sword for the stun chain if that floats your boat.

Thu 28 Mar 2019 9:35 PM by Aronox

phixion wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Mar 2019 8:07 PM
I think the discrepancy comes from you testing without styles and me testing with.

I tend to test with styles because that's what I will use on the battlefield.

I'm pretty sure I've seen OH damage raise with LA spec.

Its just a additional mulitplicator based on the base dmg.

Fri 29 Mar 2019 4:20 PM by Jodocus_Quak

I am relatively low 4L2 and have been using 44 LA / 39 sword / now 21 CS with success from the start. Usual fight: I let them run through me, stick on them for quick turn, followed by PA to use the short stun to get snowsquall off. Then the stun fades and I follow up with icy brilliance. Casters then start quickcasting, but die from one more doublefrost. I dont oneshot casters, but kill them anyway and am way more competitive against all others.

Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:11 PM by Dreldan

Jodocus_Quak wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 4:20 PM
I am relatively low 4L2 and have been using 44 LA / 39 sword / now 21 CS with success from the start. Usual fight: I let them run through me, stick on them for quick turn, followed by PA to use the short stun to get snowsquall off. Then the stun fades and I follow up with icy brilliance. Casters then start quickcasting, but die from one more doublefrost. I dont oneshot casters, but kill them anyway and am way more competitive against all others.

If you let them run through you and then you sticky them, wouldn't that put you behind them and in position to BS, not PA? Or am i misunderstanding something?

Sat 30 Mar 2019 12:19 AM by canbilly

SBs have been in need of dmg increase since LA nerf. I hope this excellent dev team has some plans to fix it.

Wed 3 Apr 2019 2:04 PM by Pedòr

Hi guys, surely it was asked before, but go up to 51-52 stealth is worth or 50 is enough?

Because i'm rr4 and have 37+14 stealth, and i was wondering if i have to respec to reallocate better that point ahah.

Thanks!

Wed 3 Apr 2019 3:29 PM by Lanfear

50 is enough

Thu 4 Apr 2019 1:33 PM by Jodocus_Quak

Dreldan wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 11:11 PM
Jodocus_Quak wrote: ↑
Fri 29 Mar 2019 4:20 PM
I am relatively low 4L2 and have been using 44 LA / 39 sword / now 21 CS with success from the start. Usual fight: I let them run through me, stick on them for quick turn, followed by PA to use the short stun to get snowsquall off. Then the stun fades and I follow up with icy brilliance. Casters then start quickcasting, but die from one more doublefrost. I dont oneshot casters, but kill them anyway and am way more competitive against all others.

If you let them run through you and then you sticky them, wouldn't that put you behind them and in position to BS, not PA? Or am i misunderstanding something?

Yes, its backstab, not PA.

Sat 6 Apr 2019 3:28 PM by phixion

IseBankMiceElff wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Apr 2019 8:31 PM
I don’t think this has been asked here or not but does anyone use a 2H sword just for PA then switch to two weapons after that?

Sometimes, if it's a caster... you still have the long delay between PA and CD though.

Sat 6 Apr 2019 3:44 PM by Shadowblade1

IseBankMiceElff wrote: ↑
Fri 5 Apr 2019 8:31 PM
I don’t think this has been asked here or not but does anyone use a 2H sword just for PA then switch to two weapons after that?

You wont want to switch from Perf to CD. You want to Perf and CD 1h and transition to 2h on Stunning Stab and intoa Garrote and possibly an AH.

Mon 29 Apr 2019 2:20 PM by Torye

Going on again about the spec, it's there any reason to drop crit entirely and just go LA, weapon, high envenom, high stealth? It seems like I'm mainly fighting stealth unless I can get out of the milegate. And even then my pa is usually hitting for just over 100 something. Of course I'm only about to hit rr3 and am not totally templated but I have strength maxed, mop 3, Aug 2, I believe and am Norse. It just seems like I'm hitting other stealth for so much less than they are hitting me. I am totally buffed. Off hand hitting for like 40-50. Main hand sometimes breaks 100. I was thinking of going total zerk spec and high envenom to switch when they purge to redot. I'm 49.5 and have rp off because I can't decide on a spec....

Mon 29 Apr 2019 2:38 PM by Smufr

Torye wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Apr 2019 2:20 PM
Going on again about the spec, it's there any reason to drop crit entirely and just go LA, weapon, high envenom, high stealth? It seems like I'm mainly fighting stealth unless I can get out of the milegate. And even then my pa is usually hitting for just over 100 something. Of course I'm only about to hit rr3 and am not totally templated but I have strength maxed, mop 3, Aug 2, I believe and am Norse. It just seems like I'm hitting other stealth for so much less than they are hitting me. I am totally buffed. Off hand hitting for like 40-50. Main hand sometimes breaks 100. I was thinking of going total zerk spec and high envenom to switch when they purge to redot. I'm 49.5 and have rp off because I can't decide on a spec....

At RR3 I had decent luck with: 39 Axe, 39 CS, 37 Stealth, 37 Env, 26 LA

I personally would not give up CS at such a low RR, and also being sub-50 makes a difference in your damage. Two other things that make a huge difference are running a str/con charge and AF charge - it will boost your damage/hits, and lower the amount of damage you take.

I'm not sure which styles you're using currently, but Garrote+AH combo does a lot of damage (mainly AH) so I would recommend trying that as well.

Mon 29 Apr 2019 2:45 PM by Torye

Thank you. I'll give that another try tonight.

Mon 29 Apr 2019 3:31 PM by Torye

Plus stealth lore is no longer in game is it? I remember years back something like that

Mon 29 Apr 2019 4:11 PM by Amp_Phetamine

Torye wrote: ↑
Mon 29 Apr 2019 3:31 PM
Plus stealth lore is no longer in game is it? I remember years back something like that

You can buy a 1 minute duration - 5 charge potion stealth lore pot for 10 Phoenix Claws that increases your base stealth detection radius by 250 units.

Wed 1 May 2019 1:49 PM by Kappu

Back on the topic of specs.

What's everyone's opinion on Sword vs. Axe? I see that you can retain an evade stun at 34 Axe so at RR6 you wouldn't lose access to that if you're lowering the main hand from 39 (or whatever your spec is)

What are the pros and cons of either one?

Running a sword on your 2H slot looks way cooler, but I wouldn't call that a pro or con LOFL!

Thu 2 May 2019 12:54 AM by Mavella

Kappu wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 1:49 PM
Back on the topic of specs.

What's everyone's opinion on Sword vs. Axe? I see that you can retain an evade stun at 34 Axe so at RR6 you wouldn't lose access to that if you're lowering the main hand from 39 (or whatever your spec is)

What are the pros and cons of either one?

Running a sword on your 2H slot looks way cooler, but I wouldn't call that a pro or con LOFL!

Sword for dragon-shadow sword str/con debuff is one of our strongest tools. Our greatest enemies are slash Infs and blade shades/rangers. Knocking them down 56 str/con on top of the 44str debuff as well as the ws/con buff is extremely strong.

Axe get access to Dragonmight and a dot that stacks with lifebane/alchemy dot proc which has potential as well.

Thu 2 May 2019 3:52 PM by Saroi

Kappu wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 1:49 PM
Back on the topic of specs.

What's everyone's opinion on Sword vs. Axe? I see that you can retain an evade stun at 34 Axe so at RR6 you wouldn't lose access to that if you're lowering the main hand from 39 (or whatever your spec is)

What are the pros and cons of either one?

Running a sword on your 2H slot looks way cooler, but I wouldn't call that a pro or con LOFL!

Axe for triple dot proc is in my opinion better. Dragonmight and alchemy dot will do around 170 damage(Basically 2 normal dd procs) each over the duration, so together 340 damage. Axe has an anytimer haste debuff. Unless you go Critblade, the stun from weapons aren't that important since you get a stun with 39 LA anyways.

Also Sword, besides the 4.2 Str/Con debuff sword, there aren't any other swords with that speed. So after applying the Str/Con debuff, you practically switch to a 4.0 crafted sword for Dot/DD proc. But the 4.0 sword will hit about 10 damage less.

Dragonmight and the slowest crafted axe both have 4.2 attackspeed.

Fri 3 May 2019 2:21 AM by ProudGinger

Saroi wrote:
Kappu wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 1:49 PM
Back on the topic of specs.

What's everyone's opinion on Sword vs. Axe? I see that you can retain an evade stun at 34 Axe so at RR6 you wouldn't lose access to that if you're lowering the main hand from 39 (or whatever your spec is)

What are the pros and cons of either one?

Running a sword on your 2H slot looks way cooler, but I wouldn't call that a pro or con LOFL!

Axe for triple dot proc is in my opinion better. Dragonmight and alchemy dot will do around 170 damage(Basically 2 normal dd procs) each over the duration, so together 340 damage. Axe has an anytimer haste debuff. Unless you go Critblade, the stun from weapons aren't that important since you get a stun with 39 LA anyways.

Also Sword, besides the 4.2 Str/Con debuff sword, there aren't any other swords with that speed. So after applying the Str/Con debuff, you practically switch to a 4.0 crafted sword for Dot/DD proc. But the 4.0 sword will hit about 10 damage less.

Dragonmight and the slowest crafted axe both have 4.2 attackspeed.

Are you sure dragonmight dot stacks with lifebane? They share the same dmg type (body), same duration (20 sec) and the same dmg (64 per tick) I was under the assumption that you need different dmg type for dots to stack (like the matter dot proc from alchemy)

Fri 3 May 2019 8:34 AM by Saroi

ProudGinger wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 2:21 AM
Saroi wrote:
Kappu wrote: ↑
Wed 1 May 2019 1:49 PM
Back on the topic of specs.

What's everyone's opinion on Sword vs. Axe? I see that you can retain an evade stun at 34 Axe so at RR6 you wouldn't lose access to that if you're lowering the main hand from 39 (or whatever your spec is)

What are the pros and cons of either one?

Running a sword on your 2H slot looks way cooler, but I wouldn't call that a pro or con LOFL!

Axe for triple dot proc is in my opinion better. Dragonmight and alchemy dot will do around 170 damage(Basically 2 normal dd procs) each over the duration, so together 340 damage. Axe has an anytimer haste debuff. Unless you go Critblade, the stun from weapons aren't that important since you get a stun with 39 LA anyways.

Also Sword, besides the 4.2 Str/Con debuff sword, there aren't any other swords with that speed. So after applying the Str/Con debuff, you practically switch to a 4.0 crafted sword for Dot/DD proc. But the 4.0 sword will hit about 10 damage less.

Dragonmight and the slowest crafted axe both have 4.2 attackspeed.

Are you sure dragonmight dot stacks with lifebane? They share the same dmg type (body), same duration (20 sec) and the same dmg (64 per tick) I was under the assumption that you need different dmg type for dots to stack (like the matter dot proc from alchemy)

Yes I am sure they stack because I use all 3 dots. I had my doubts too at the beginning, that is why I bought a Dragonmight and tested it for a long time on dummies and I had all 3 dot stacks up. I got other SB taking it too because 3 dots on an enemy is very powerful and they all were happy with the 3 dot stack.

I don't know exactly if this is a mistake or intended. Maybe because it is poison and not a dot reactive but Dragonmight and Lifebane stack even though they are both body and same tick.

Tue 17 Dec 2019 6:16 PM by Atum

Hello,

what about combining dragon-shadow for s/c debuff _and_ dragonmight for triple dot, by using the axes in the left hand?

switch ...
1) dragon-shadow sword + steinvor -> s/c debuff + haste buff

2) crafted/df/rog mh sword with alchemy-dot + dragonmight -> alchemy dot+dm dot

3) rog lifetap 4.0 sword + la axe 2.4 lifetap (or sword?) -> last switch after proccs are applied or
3a) 4.3 sword of sorrow endu drain + 2.4 lifetap axe

am i missing something?

Tue 17 Dec 2019 11:10 PM by Mavella

Atum wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Dec 2019 6:16 PM
Hello,

what about combining dragon-shadow for s/c debuff _and_ dragonmight for triple dot, by using the axes in the left hand?

switch ...
1) dragon-shadow sword + steinvor -> s/c debuff + haste buff

2) crafted/df/rog mh sword with alchemy-dot + dragonmight -> alchemy dot+dm dot

3) rog lifetap 4.0 sword + la axe 2.4 lifetap (or sword?) -> last switch after proccs are applied or
3a) 4.3 sword of sorrow endu drain + 2.4 lifetap axe

am i missing something?

This is a hell of a thread necro.

1. Str/con proc no longer stacks with enervate. It is effectively an additional str debuff and nothing more.

2. Using a dragonmight in your offhand is going to result in extremely slow swing speed after ASR and possible DQ debuff. Not a great recipie for success.

3a. There aren't really any good sword procs now that str/con debuff doesn't stack. The epic lifetap sword is about it but the damage is less vs ROG lifetap for a slightly increased chance to proc. Personally I'd rather have the high dmg per proc than a minor increase in proc chance.
3b. This could work combined with weariness poison but only in a prolonged fight. I think many 1v1s will be resolved before anyone is completely drained of endurance.

I think the best weapon option is axes. Use TG haste axe or Dragonmight mainhand then switch to ROG lifetap or Craft dot proc after your first proc goes off. I wouldn't use anything slower than a 2.7 craft offhand. 2.4 rog is always my preference. Keep in mind fast offhands proc pretty infrequently (usually see 0-1 per 1v1 fight). Count more on getting multiple procs from your mainhand if 4.0speed+ in that time frame.

Wed 18 Dec 2019 10:06 AM by Atum

Mavella wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Dec 2019 11:10 PM
Atum wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Dec 2019 6:16 PM
Hello,

what about combining dragon-shadow for s/c debuff _and_ dragonmight for triple dot, by using the axes in the left hand?

switch ...
1) dragon-shadow sword + steinvor -> s/c debuff + haste buff

2) crafted/df/rog mh sword with alchemy-dot + dragonmight -> alchemy dot+dm dot

3) rog lifetap 4.0 sword + la axe 2.4 lifetap (or sword?) -> last switch after proccs are applied or
3a) 4.3 sword of sorrow endu drain + 2.4 lifetap axe

am i missing something?

This is a hell of a thread necro.

1. Str/con proc no longer stacks with enervate. It is effectively an additional str debuff and nothing more.

2. Using a dragonmight in your offhand is going to result in extremely slow swing speed after ASR and possible DQ debuff. Not a great recipie for success.

3a. There aren't really any good sword procs now that str/con debuff doesn't stack. The epic lifetap sword is about it but the damage is less vs ROG lifetap for a slightly increased chance to proc. Personally I'd rather have the high dmg per proc than a minor increase in proc chance.
3b. This could work combined with weariness poison but only in a prolonged fight. I think many 1v1s will be resolved before anyone is completely drained of endurance.

I think the best weapon option is axes. Use TG haste axe or Dragonmight mainhand then switch to ROG lifetap or Craft dot proc after your first proc goes off. I wouldn't use anything slower than a 2.7 craft offhand. 2.4 rog is always my preference. Keep in mind fast offhands proc pretty infrequently (usually see 0-1 per 1v1 fight). Count more on getting multiple procs from your mainhand if 4.0speed+ in that time frame.

thank you! i am completely new to sb and just hit 50, did a cap weaponless sc and specced axe for now; just brainstorming here with other guildies as i played infil/ns in the past long way ago. and this kind of weaponswitch with different procs and also the arsenal of weapons in mid is new to me on a stealther.

1. yes i know that, only str debuff is additive now, but still better than not having it and -56 str is huge?

2. dragonmight in offhand is only for applying the dot; as proc rates rely on weapon speed, the 4.2 will proc fast enough, only the swingspeed will be slow after debuffs yes; but we dont want to stay on dm as offhand, as its only for applying the 2nd dot.

3. ok

3a. yes indeed, just thought of it as SoSorr has 4.3 speed and another "proc utility", but you're right, there will be rare fights where endu drain is good

€dit: the proc

so for axe spec i would suggest:

switch #x

#1) steinvor+steinvor -> haste buff
#2) dragonmight + alchemy dot proc offhand (atm crafted 2.9)
#3) life tap 4.2 + lifetap 2.4 axes

my spec for rr3 is stealth env axe 37 | cs 39 | la 29 with lw1 tl1 purge3 for starters.

i want to try shadowzerk also; whats the earliest rr i can do that effectively and with what spec exactly?

tyvm!

Thu 19 Dec 2019 12:47 AM by Mavella

Atum wrote: ↑
Wed 18 Dec 2019 10:06 AM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Dec 2019 11:10 PM
Atum wrote: ↑
Tue 17 Dec 2019 6:16 PM
Hello,

what about combining dragon-shadow for s/c debuff _and_ dragonmight for triple dot, by using the axes in the left hand?

switch ...
1) dragon-shadow sword + steinvor -> s/c debuff + haste buff

2) crafted/df/rog mh sword with alchemy-dot + dragonmight -> alchemy dot+dm dot

3) rog lifetap 4.0 sword + la axe 2.4 lifetap (or sword?) -> last switch after proccs are applied or
3a) 4.3 sword of sorrow endu drain + 2.4 lifetap axe

am i missing something?

This is a hell of a thread necro.

1. Str/con proc no longer stacks with enervate. It is effectively an additional str debuff and nothing more.

2. Using a dragonmight in your offhand is going to result in extremely slow swing speed after ASR and possible DQ debuff. Not a great recipie for success.

3a. There aren't really any good sword procs now that str/con debuff doesn't stack. The epic lifetap sword is about it but the damage is less vs ROG lifetap for a slightly increased chance to proc. Personally I'd rather have the high dmg per proc than a minor increase in proc chance.
3b. This could work combined with weariness poison but only in a prolonged fight. I think many 1v1s will be resolved before anyone is completely drained of endurance.

I think the best weapon option is axes. Use TG haste axe or Dragonmight mainhand then switch to ROG lifetap or Craft dot proc after your first proc goes off. I wouldn't use anything slower than a 2.7 craft offhand. 2.4 rog is always my preference. Keep in mind fast offhands proc pretty infrequently (usually see 0-1 per 1v1 fight). Count more on getting multiple procs from your mainhand if 4.0speed+ in that time frame.

thank you! i am completely new to sb and just hit 50, did a cap weaponless sc and specced axe for now; just brainstorming here with other guildies as i played infil/ns in the past long way ago. and this kind of weaponswitch with different procs and also the arsenal of weapons in mid is new to me on a stealther.

1. yes i know that, only str debuff is additive now, but still better than not having it and -56 str is huge?

2. dragonmight in offhand is only for applying the dot; as proc rates rely on weapon speed, the 4.2 will proc fast enough, only the swingspeed will be slow after debuffs yes; but we dont want to stay on dm as offhand, as its only for applying the 2nd dot.

3. ok

3a. yes indeed, just thought of it as SoSorr has 4.3 speed and another "proc utility", but you're right, there will be rare fights where endu drain is good

€dit: the proc

so for axe spec i would suggest:

switch #x

#1) steinvor+steinvor -> haste buff
#2) dragonmight + alchemy dot proc offhand (atm crafted 2.9)
#3) life tap 4.2 + lifetap 2.4 axes

my spec for rr3 is stealth env axe 37 | cs 39 | la 29 with lw1 tl1 purge3 for starters.

i want to try shadowzerk also; whats the earliest rr i can do that effectively and with what spec exactly?

tyvm!

I tried double steinvor and did not like it. I carry 3 of them and haste usually proc within the first 3-4 hits with a fast lifetap offhand. After haste procs is when I swap to lifetap rogs in the mainhand.

I think the second setup is fine for dot stack load-out.

If i had to go RR3 again I'd probably go something like this. 50axe/34LA/37env/37stl/10CS

The axe frontal chain is strong (0.75 -> 0.90 growth rates + a bleed) and works as an anytime in 1v1 fights. Side ASR at 39 Axe is also great. I'd apply that after opening with BS2. You could use doublefrost but it will do less damage than the frontal chain with this spec. Anytime ASR at lesser dmg but still valuable. The only thing that isn't great is the Axe positional styles besides the previously mentions side style.

This is just a shadowzerk-esque spec that is a stopgap until rr5 when you can go 50LA/37axe/35stl/35env/restCS. You'll be doing the same thing except using LA styles exclusively except for BS2 to open.

Sat 21 Dec 2019 5:09 PM by Atum

maybe an underrated topic, but pref starting stats for a norse? str/dex/con or qui ?

Sat 21 Dec 2019 5:43 PM by gotwqqd

Atum wrote: ↑
Sat 21 Dec 2019 5:09 PM
maybe an underrated topic, but pref starting stats for a norse? str/dex/con or qui ?

I never put con on any of my characters
I’d go st/dex/qui

But I’m not privy to if quickness is easily capped without the 10 on creation

Sat 21 Dec 2019 9:06 PM by Mavella

Sb's getting 5 hp/con changed my stance on this. I went 10str/con/qui as Norse from either 15str/10qui or 10str/15qui.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 8:25 AM by Kampfar

Why are there so few valkyn sb? I see almost only norse

:

Thu 9 Apr 2020 2:43 PM by darkstar00

Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 21 Dec 2019 9:06 PM
Sb's getting 5 hp/con changed my stance on this. I went 10str/con/qui as Norse from either 15str/10qui or 10str/15qui.

Interesting, I just checked on my SB, it seems to be 4.7778 hp per con.

EDIT:

So for RA purposes, getting aug con 2 for 2 pts would add 37 hp, but besides that toughness is best bang for buck for extra health.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 3:30 PM by darkstar00

Kampfar wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 8:25 AM
Why are there so few valkyn sb? I see almost only norse :

Because Norse has highest str/con. The extra Dex/Quick for a valk isn't a game changer since its like less than 1% more evade chance. There are a few valk SBs, they are fine you just need augs to str / con to close the gap plus the recial resists are an added benefit.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 4:01 PM by joshisanonymous

darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 3:30 PM
Because Norse has highest str/con. The extra Dex/Quick for a valk isn't a game changer since its like less than 1% more evade chance. There are a few valk SBs, they are fine you just need augs to str / con to close the gap plus the recial resists are an added benefit.

Valkyn definitely have better racial resists, though, especially for stealth.

Thu 9 Apr 2020 8:12 PM by darkstar00

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 4:01 PM
darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 3:30 PM
Because Norse has highest str/con. The extra Dex/Quick for a valk isn't a game changer since its like less than 1% more evade chance. There are a few valk SBs, they are fine you just need augs to str / con to close the gap plus the recial resists are an added benefit.

Valkyn definitely have better racial resists, though, especially for stealth.

Yep for sure. If you can handle the pimp limp then valk is a great race for SB

Sat 11 Apr 2020 7:06 AM by Mavella

darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Apr 2020 2:43 PM
Mavella wrote: ↑
Sat 21 Dec 2019 9:06 PM
Sb's getting 5 hp/con changed my stance on this. I went 10str/con/qui as Norse from either 15str/10qui or 10str/15qui.

Interesting, I just checked on my SB, it seems to be 4.7778 hp per con.

EDIT:

So for RA purposes, getting aug con 2 for 2 pts would add 37 hp, but besides that toughness is best bang for buck for extra health.

Yeah I rounded when the HP change initially happened and didn't realize it at the time. I still kept the 10/10/10 split but haven't played in a while.

Thu 23 Apr 2020 2:07 AM by Freudinio

Is there a preferable spec, if swords for a low realm rank SB?

Thu 23 Apr 2020 6:05 AM by inoeth

Freudinio wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 2:07 AM
Is there a preferable spec, if swords for a low realm rank SB?

there is no benefit to go for sword, so the preferable spec for sword sb is to go axe

my rr6 sb:
50 la
36 axe
34 env
34 stealth
18 cs

Thu 23 Apr 2020 12:14 PM by Freudinio

inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 6:05 AM
Freudinio wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 2:07 AM
Is there a preferable spec, if swords for a low realm rank SB?

there is no benefit to go for sword, so the preferable spec for sword sb is to go axe
my rr6 sb:
50 la
36 axe
34 env
34 stealth
18 cs

Thanks. Do you think this will hold true after the style changes as well?

Thu 23 Apr 2020 12:25 PM by Hangel

No one know what they change so it's hard to know...

Thu 23 Apr 2020 12:43 PM by Saroi

Freudinio wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 12:14 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 6:05 AM
Freudinio wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 2:07 AM
Is there a preferable spec, if swords for a low realm rank SB?

there is no benefit to go for sword, so the preferable spec for sword sb is to go axe
my rr6 sb:
50 la
36 axe
34 env
34 stealth
18 cs

Thanks. Do you think this will hold true after the style changes as well?

Yes. If they really do change it the 3 part backchain will become a 2part and will be even more powerful. Also I would recommend to go 39 axe to get the side haste debuff. 34% is very strong vs 2h. In a 9 sec stun they barely get 2 attacks on you. Everything above 10 CS is a waste if you are Shadowzerk. I myself only got 2 into CS because I am running with Backstab 1 for the lower stun immunity timer. There are enough enemies who purge it. Backstab 2 only helps vs. Casters for that 1 sec longer stun.

Thu 23 Apr 2020 12:54 PM by inoeth

Freudinio wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 12:14 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 6:05 AM
Freudinio wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 2:07 AM
Is there a preferable spec, if swords for a low realm rank SB?

there is no benefit to go for sword, so the preferable spec for sword sb is to go axe
my rr6 sb:
50 la
36 axe
34 env
34 stealth
18 cs

Thanks. Do you think this will hold true after the style changes as well?

no one knows that for sure.
but you mainly spec 50 la to increase your main hand and off hand dmg and this will stay the same

Thu 23 Apr 2020 9:06 PM by gotwqqd

Freudinio wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 12:14 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 6:05 AM
Freudinio wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 2:07 AM
Is there a preferable spec, if swords for a low realm rank SB?

there is no benefit to go for sword, so the preferable spec for sword sb is to go axe
my rr6 sb:
50 la
36 axe
34 env
34 stealth
18 cs

Thanks. Do you think this will hold true after the style changes as well?

Isn’t 39 axe a good point to stay at for the opening of side attack 34% attack rate reduction?

Fri 24 Apr 2020 1:10 AM by Mavella

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 9:06 PM
Freudinio wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 12:14 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Apr 2020 6:05 AM
there is no benefit to go for sword, so the preferable spec for sword sb is to go axe
my rr6 sb:
50 la
36 axe
34 env
34 stealth
18 cs

Thanks. Do you think this will hold true after the style changes as well?
Isn’t 39 axe a good point to stay at for the opening of side attack 34% attack rate reduction?

39 axe is required if you want that ASR style yes. If you want 50LA and eventually to have perf+CD you will unfortunately be unable to keep 39 axe. You can't get 50LA and 34+ CS until RR10 anyway so not a factor for most but something to consider.

Sat 9 May 2020 2:33 PM by Frostburn

Hello all,

Looking to have a go at my SB after a long break from Phoenix.

Any suggestion on a current RR5 spec?

Thanks.

Wed 1 Jul 2020 11:01 PM by Slithic

Frostburn wrote: ↑
Sat 9 May 2020 2:33 PM
Hello all,

Looking to have a go at my SB after a long break from Phoenix.

Any suggestion on a current RR5 spec?

Thanks.

So what did you decide on?

I am thinking about dusting mine off as well. Only RR3 currently.

Looks like SZ is the way for Post RR5, but any information on Pre-RR5?

50 LA
39 Axe
35 Stealth
35 Venom
5 CS

Thanks.

Wed 5 Aug 2020 6:25 AM by asnusia

Shadowzerk is still the way to play SB or after PA change is better at low rr a spec like

35 stealth/poison
37 weapon
44 cs
27 LA

?

Another doubt i have is if worth playing with dragon might + crafted 2,9 with matter dot or is better going a random 4,2 (haste/dd/lifetap) + 2,4 rog to maximize swing speed

thx a sorry for my english

Wed 5 Aug 2020 10:12 AM by inoeth

asnusia wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Aug 2020 6:25 AM
Shadowzerk is still the way to play SB or after PA change is better at low rr a spec like

35 stealth/poison
37 weapon
44 cs
27 LA

?

Another doubt i have is if worth playing with dragon might + crafted 2,9 with matter dot or is better going a random 4,2 (haste/dd/lifetap) + 2,4 rog to maximize swing speed

thx a sorry for my english

recently i got myself some lvl 46 crafted 2.4 la ... the difference in dmg is only around 3-5 dmg compared to a lvl 51 weapon so you can easily go dragonmight+craft dot

Fri 7 Aug 2020 8:22 PM by Slithic

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Aug 2020 10:12 AM
recently i got myself some lvl 46 crafted 2.4 la ... the difference in dmg is only around 3-5 dmg compared to a lvl 51 weapon so you can easily go dragonmight+craft dot

That would be great .. except you cannot add a level 47 player crafted DOT charge to a level 46 weapon.

Fri 7 Aug 2020 10:33 PM by Saroi

Slithic wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 8:22 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Aug 2020 10:12 AM
recently i got myself some lvl 46 crafted 2.4 la ... the difference in dmg is only around 3-5 dmg compared to a lvl 51 weapon so you can easily go dragonmight+craft dot

That would be great .. except you cannot add a level 47 player crafted DOT charge to a level 46 weapon.

Yes you can. It does not matter what level the weapon or armor has. You can put Alchemy reactives or charges on anything, even level 1 crafted stuff.

Sat 8 Aug 2020 2:12 AM by Slithic

Saroi wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 10:33 PM
Slithic wrote: ↑
Fri 7 Aug 2020 8:22 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Aug 2020 10:12 AM
recently i got myself some lvl 46 crafted 2.4 la ... the difference in dmg is only around 3-5 dmg compared to a lvl 51 weapon so you can easily go dragonmight+craft dot

That would be great .. except you cannot add a level 47 player crafted DOT charge to a level 46 weapon.

Yes you can. It does not matter what level the weapon or armor has. You can put Alchemy reactives or charges on anything, even level 1 crafted stuff.

I stand corrected .. I was trying to use a armor DOT proc. LOL. Thank you.

Fri 20 Nov 2020 6:12 AM by spookske

So i did this with 4.2 MH 2.4 OH in a weaponless template, buffed with pots

whats your thoughts?

Edit: 25 swings each style on training dummy

link here if it doesnt work: https://pasteboard.co/JBc0LAC.png

Fri 20 Nov 2020 8:49 AM by Cadebrennus

spookske wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Nov 2020 6:12 AM
So i did this with 4.2 MH 2.4 OH in a weaponless template, buffed with pots

whats your thoughts?

link here if it doesnt work: https://pasteboard.co/JBc0LAC.png

I like the way you set that up. Now the real question is, which styles do you use the most and which do you use rarely?

Fri 20 Nov 2020 12:49 PM by spookske

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Nov 2020 8:49 AM
I like the way you set that up. Now the real question is, which styles do you use the most and which do you use rarely?

If went with the spec marked with red so far, so I have DF as anytime, garrote for snare. Because garrote is to end heavy for anytime. And the 39 cs will still give me the best dmg output on opening.

I cant belive the variance in dmg is so little compared to how different the specs are tho..

From what i can see it doesnt seem that going above 50 comp weapons does anything - only CS benefits from more than 50 comp. The dmg is close to the same with 34 and 44 axe. Only reason the dmg is higher is the higher LA spec.

Fri 20 Nov 2020 12:58 PM by ExcretusMaximus

spookske wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Nov 2020 12:49 PM
I have DF as anytime, garrote for snare.

Aren't they the same amount? Charplanner says they are.

Fri 20 Nov 2020 1:04 PM by spookske

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Nov 2020 12:58 PM
spookske wrote: ↑
Fri 20 Nov 2020 12:49 PM
I have DF as anytime, garrote for snare.

Aren't they the same amount? Charplanner says they are.

you are absolutely right - just seemed as more in my testing but i guess its the same :-) hmm back to square one i guess

Fri 20 Nov 2020 2:37 PM by Cadebrennus

In the red spec your CS and LA are different spec values. Also, your overall damage is lower the lower your LA spec is, regardless of what specline you use. If you want higher damage out of each spec line then you need to max LA

Sat 21 Nov 2020 6:20 PM by daytonchambers

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Aug 2020 10:12 AM
recently i got myself some lvl 46 crafted 2.4 la ... the difference in dmg is only around 3-5 dmg compared to a lvl 51 weapon so you can easily go dragonmight+craft dot

Unfortunately the problem with the fastest craftable arcanium axe is that it only enchants to 30% vs the max 35% that lv 51 weapons get. Which makes zero sense to me, as some of the netherium ROG drops have a 35% enchant. What this means is that you have another 5% chance to miss with the offhand which already has a higher than normal miss rate to begin with as it's unstyled damage.

All top tier craftable gear should be able to get the top tier enchant IMO

Mon 30 Nov 2020 10:10 AM by byron

Hi guys,
For a RR4 Shadowzerk I see that the suggested spec doesn't reach 50 on Stealth and Evenom :

50 LA +14
39 Axe +14
35 Stealth +14
35 Env +14

Do you suggest to drop Axe spec to have 36 in Stealth and Envenom until RR5 ? What RA do you suggest then as must have ? Something like Purge 2, Vanish 1 and Viper 3 for RR4L2 is good or not ?
Then weapons : since I'm not familiar with evenom and weapon swap, is it better 2 have two dragon axes and one rog 2.4 left hand and then switching the two dragon axes in the main hand with different envenom or ... ?

Mon 30 Nov 2020 11:27 AM by poplik

I was wondering if it's worth to use 2Hand for PA? I remember it being a thing but I don't see anyone using it.

Mon 30 Nov 2020 12:30 PM by Sepplord

not sure if it is worth it, but IF you do then take a 2h that is as fast as possible
PA-styledamage doesn't take weaponspeed into account here (it does give a bigger boost to a 2h-PA than a 1H-PA though)

Tue 1 Dec 2020 2:20 PM by inoeth

no dmg bonus for 2h pa here...
you almost hit for as much as 1h maybe 50-100 more dmg at least the alst time i tried and afaik nothing has changed regarding this

Tue 1 Dec 2020 4:04 PM by ExcretusMaximus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 1 Dec 2020 2:20 PM
no dmg bonus for 2h pa here...
you almost hit for as much as 1h maybe 50-100 more dmg at least the alst time i tried and afaik nothing has changed regarding this

You people try to maximize everything to where you're willing to spend 50p to get 1% more damage, then scoff at the idea of a free extra 100 damage on your opener.

Tue 1 Dec 2020 4:34 PM by Sepplord

yeah, that surprised me too...
50-100dmg is HUGE

though it doesn't come without downsides, so overall i believe most don't bother with it.

I didn't when i was playing an SB

Thu 3 Dec 2020 11:05 AM by inoeth

100 extra dmg + very long swing time in which the enemy has time to react.
those extra 100 dmg get easily mitigated by the extra swing time, also 2h=1x venom / 2x1h=2x venom
if you would hit for 1k with 2h pa that would be a whole different story though

i said it alot and will do it again: speed is king in this game

Thu 3 Dec 2020 12:22 PM by boridi

inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Dec 2020 11:05 AM
100 extra dmg + very long swing time in which the enemy has time to react.
those extra 100 dmg get easily mitigated by the extra swing time, also 2h=1x venom / 2x1h=2x venom
if you would hit for 1k with 2h pa that would be a whole different story though

i said it alot and will do it again: speed is king in this game

Yep, it will take >10 seconds to apply DOT/enervating/disease. Some evades + resists will make it >20 seconds. My SB is 8L8 and I think I have used a 2-hander three or four times as a joke or for a perf on a sitting player.

Thu 3 Dec 2020 3:58 PM by Sepplord

Aren't sins using slowest possible mainhand anyways? Since they are capping their attackspeed regarding using slow-mainhand they have no benefit from switching to a fast mainhand for PA.
But the fastest 2Hand in Midgard isn't that much slower, is it?

My memory might be completely off, but isn't mainhand-1h speed 4,2 and there is a 4,5 2h that could be used?

(the other arguments ofcourse still apply, just theorycrafting here...not trying to say that 2h-PA is worth it)

Thu 3 Dec 2020 9:41 PM by Taniquetil

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Dec 2020 3:58 PM
Aren't sins using slowest possible mainhand anyways? Since they are capping their attackspeed regarding using slow-mainhand they have no benefit from switching to a fast mainhand for PA.
But the fastest 2Hand in Midgard isn't that much slower, is it?

My memory might be completely off, but isn't mainhand-1h speed 4,2 and there is a 4,5 2h that could be used?

(the other arguments ofcourse still apply, just theorycrafting here...not trying to say that 2h-PA is worth it)

Use a Fast MH for PA, dmg isnt tied to weapon speed, you make the 2nd hit quicker, therefore boosting DPS. and if you miss PA, same story, because the con debuff overwrrites any damage you'd do anyway, so the first hit is useless other than taking some ablative away.

Spec up to you, Shadowzerk, or critblade or try a mix or focus on the ASR in axe.

Mon 7 Dec 2020 12:39 PM by Sepplord

Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Dec 2020 9:41 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Dec 2020 3:58 PM
Aren't sins using slowest possible mainhand anyways? Since they are capping their attackspeed regarding using slow-mainhand they have no benefit from switching to a fast mainhand for PA.
But the fastest 2Hand in Midgard isn't that much slower, is it?

My memory might be completely off, but isn't mainhand-1h speed 4,2 and there is a 4,5 2h that could be used?

(the other arguments ofcourse still apply, just theorycrafting here...not trying to say that 2h-PA is worth it)

Use a Fast MH for PA, dmg isnt tied to weapon speed, you make the 2nd hit quicker, therefore boosting DPS. and if you miss PA, same story, because the con debuff overwrrites any damage you'd do anyway, so the first hit is useless other than taking some ablative away.

Spec up to you, Shadowzerk, or critblade or try a mix or focus on the ASR in axe.

I believe you misunderstood my post or skipped over the (now, in citation) bolded part
so in that regard, using a fast 2H for PA would not make a huge difference speedwise, to the slow mainhand that is used already and since PA_dmgbonus isn't related to speed, you would get the 2H-bonus almost for free.

I could be wrong/have my numbers off...it's just theorycrafting, but your reply doesn't seem to disagree with anything i said, yet explains the baseline claim of my comment again as if i was unaware?
You definitely know more about assassins than I do

But i am not sure if this is a misunderstanding or if there is something actually wrong

Mon 25 Jan 2021 10:36 AM by jurepog13

What about going full LA?
I haven't read any opinions on this.

Let's say something in the range of:

50 LA
37 Axe
36 Stealth
36 Envenom
Rest CS (6)

Preparing for rr4. You can open with LA backstyle chain (biggest bleed) or bs chain, switch 3 weaps for psn debuffs and dots and use pillager for haste debuff and if you want even the follow-up for snare. You get evade 6s stun follow-up and valk shield has defence bonus. So you can use stun only after evade (the bs 2 sec stun is irrelevant here imo, especially when stuns get purged almost everytime anyway) and go with the LA backstyle chain again if not purged. You use doublefrost as anytimer for all the inbetweens or if you see that enough dmg has already been done and with procs on weapons and high LA you should be doing great dmg theoretically.

Please rip this apart because I'm really interested in all the pros and cons.
Also I would love it if there was a simmilar discussion on templates for sb. I'd like to have one with at least some feather items, especially the Ice Shadow Jerkin and if possible main weap.

Keep in mind I'm new to phoenix and have only had a rr4.5 sb in og daoc about 15 years ago.

Thanks!

Mon 25 Jan 2021 5:58 PM by protege

I was 50 LA / 39 axe until rr10.. then I went 50La / 34 cs

Now I am 44cs 44 la at rr11

Tue 26 Jan 2021 8:33 AM by inoeth

jurepog13 wrote: ↑
Mon 25 Jan 2021 10:36 AM
What about going full LA?
I haven't read any opinions on this.

Let's say something in the range of:

50 LA
37 Axe
36 Stealth
36 Envenom
Rest CS (6)

Preparing for rr4. You can open with LA backstyle chain (biggest bleed) or bs chain, switch 3 weaps for psn debuffs and dots and use pillager for haste debuff and if you want even the follow-up for snare. You get evade 6s stun follow-up and valk shield has defence bonus. So you can use stun only after evade (the bs 2 sec stun is irrelevant here imo, especially when stuns get purged almost everytime anyway) and go with the LA backstyle chain again if not purged. You use doublefrost as anytimer for all the inbetweens or if you see that enough dmg has already been done and with procs on weapons and high LA you should be doing great dmg theoretically.

Please rip this apart because I'm really interested in all the pros and cons.
Also I would love it if there was a simmilar discussion on templates for sb. I'd like to have one with at least some feather items, especially the Ice Shadow Jerkin and if possible main weap.

Keep in mind I'm new to phoenix and have only had a rr4.5 sb in og daoc about 15 years ago.

Thanks!

dont bother too much about composite weapon spec, try to get garotte or at least BS2 so rr4 spec would be

36 stealth
36 envenom
36 axe
50 la
10 CS

with rr5 its

34 axe
18 CS

Thu 10 Jun 2021 6:42 PM by CowwoC

Has anyone already specs in mind with the upcoming style changes?
(https://playphoenix.online/charplan/style_overview_2021-06-10.html)

To me full CS seems the way to go. The 30% ASR on Aurora Borealis is nice no doubt, but not nice enough to go full into LA tbh.

Fri 11 Jun 2021 11:22 AM by inoeth

CowwoC wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jun 2021 6:42 PM
Has anyone already specs in mind with the upcoming style changes?
(https://playphoenix.online/charplan/style_overview_2021-06-10.html)

To me full CS seems the way to go. The 30% ASR on Aurora Borealis is nice no doubt, but not nice enough to go full into LA tbh.

on first sight it look like CS is the way to go but if you take a close look, the frontal chain in LA is just slightly worse than the CS one

doubler+scathing blade=146+222=368
garotte+death's door=134+240=374

but considering you go all in on LA spec and just 45 on CS spec you maybe end up at around same dmg. couldnt figuere that out exactly because the multipliers seem to be off here. and because you also gain main hand dmg with LA spec it might actually be superior to CS.

so for my rr7 sb i will try following spec:

50la
25CS
34 axe
33env
33stealth

soo nothing really changes except that i have to use two styles now instead of smashing double frost

Fri 11 Jun 2021 12:05 PM by CowwoC

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 11:22 AM
CowwoC wrote: ↑
Thu 10 Jun 2021 6:42 PM
Has anyone already specs in mind with the upcoming style changes?
(https://playphoenix.online/charplan/style_overview_2021-06-10.html)

To me full CS seems the way to go. The 30% ASR on Aurora Borealis is nice no doubt, but not nice enough to go full into LA tbh.

on first sight it look like CS is the way to go but if you take a close look, the frontal chain in LA is just slightly worse than the CS one

doubler+scathing blade=146+222=368
garotte+death's door=134+240=374

but considering you go all in on LA spec and just 45 on CS spec you maybe end up at around same dmg. couldnt figuere that out exactly because the multipliers seem to be off here. and because you also gain main hand dmg with LA spec it might actually be superior to CS.

so for my rr7 sb i will try following spec:

50la
25CS
34 axe
33env
33stealth

soo nothing really changes except that i have to use two styles now instead of smashing double frost

What about the huge dmg from pa and backstab you'll miss on a 50la spec, the missing proc on aurora and doublefrost still slacking compared to garotte?

Currently playing as Shadowzerk but with the update i probably will respec to 50cs - to me cs line looks superior overall.

Fri 11 Jun 2021 2:01 PM by inoeth

well double frost is dead then...
shadowzerk always missed PA...
missing dd proc on aurora, hm yes you have a point there but actually i used that not very often. it was like i lol-moment here and there. but maybe that will get a return in another iteration.

50 CS will for sure hit hard, personally i liked zerk spec better but we will see how it turns out.

Fri 11 Jun 2021 2:29 PM by CowwoC

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 2:01 PM
well double frost is dead then...

which is a shame.

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 2:01 PM
shadowzerk always missed PA...

yes, but with the overhaul pa get's way better than it is now. maybe we'll see a return of 2hand pa. imho it's huge not to spec into cs with that changes, since la has not much to offer since it lost the proc and uniqueness. the bleed? c'mon - anyone really count on that? doubt.

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 2:01 PM
missing dd proc on aurora, hm yes you have a point there but actually i used that not very often. it was like i lol-moment here and there. but maybe that will get a return in another iteration.

when the proc lands it's always a moment of joy, but that's the point. even tho it is on a 3 style chain, that's why you go full la no? backstab, back chain, asr, evade chain with doublefrost as backup./shrug

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 2:01 PM
50 CS will for sure hit hard, personally i liked zerk spec better but we will see how it turns out.

i like the playstyle of shadowzerk more than cs, that's why i went 50 la, but even now it has no real benefit compared to cs styles and with the change this gets even more clear, unless i oversee something.

also sword does not seem to be on level with axe still. is there even a dragonmight version as sword?

Fri 11 Jun 2021 2:37 PM by inoeth

i went LA because less styles to manage and imo more steady dmg since you max out both hands dmg and do not rely on high growth rate styles

no afaik there is no dot proc sword

Fri 11 Jun 2021 3:31 PM by SgtGator

There are Feather swords with DoT, but they are 3.4/3.5 spd

Fri 11 Jun 2021 3:35 PM by inoeth

SgtGator wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 3:31 PM
There are Feather swords with DoT, but they are 3.4/3.5 spd

well... aditionally sword does not offer anything special that axe doesnt have nor does it something better

Fri 11 Jun 2021 4:36 PM by CowwoC

SgtGator wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 3:31 PM
There are Feather swords with DoT, but they are 3.4/3.5 spd

Not really an alternative then tbh.

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jun 2021 3:35 PM
well... aditionally sword does not offer anything special that axe doesnt have nor does it something better

Yup. :/

Wed 16 Jun 2021 9:09 PM by inoeth

soo i tested specs now and imo 50 LA is still the best, really solid dmg and like i already thought, its also higher than the garotte+death door combo.
the only thing that is alot better ist obviously the lvl 50 CS style

Fri 18 Jun 2021 2:58 PM by inoeth

but tbh it was better before, i dont like the change for sb
i mean the dmg is ok when you get your frontal combo through but many ppl strafe or lag and then you miss the frontal very often basicly gimping your whole dmg
meanwhile NS get and ANYTIME combo with very high dmg and 30% ASR on it.....

my suggestion: remove snare on scathing blade and put 21-30% ASR on it, also remove frontal requirement for doubler or make doublefrost what it was, they signature move for zerks (202 dmg at 65 spec or something) . put dd proc on aurora borealis. then shadowzerk is kind of restored

Fri 18 Jun 2021 5:28 PM by Siouxsie

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 18 Jun 2021 2:58 PM
but tbh it was better before, i dont like the change for sb
i mean the dmg is ok when you get your frontal combo through but many ppl strafe or lag and then you miss the frontal very often basicly gimping your whole dmg
meanwhile NS get and ANYTIME combo with very high dmg and 30% ASR on it.....

my suggestion: remove snare on scathing blade and put 21-30% ASR on it, also remove frontal requirement for doubler or make doublefrost what it was, they signature move for zerks (202 dmg at 65 spec or something) . put dd proc on aurora borealis. then shadowzerk is kind of restored

So.. NS get an even more overpowered style and SB get a lackluster change.
Fab.

Why does Phoenix hate Midgard?

Fri 18 Jun 2021 5:42 PM by CowwoC

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 18 Jun 2021 2:58 PM
but tbh it was better before, i dont like the change for sb

I did some testing as well and overall the full LA damage seems lower now than it was before with 50 la plus the missing proc from aurora. I can't tell for CS but i read many people in chat are saying that they are not really happy with the CS spec anymore other than having the Ripper style. Sword is still no real option since you'll miss out on dragonmight and sword offers you nothing important or different which you would not gain with axe as well.

That's my style damage comparison on a dummy with buff pots, rr6 and 35axe.

50 LA / 21 CS vs 50 CS / 21 LA

CS STYLES:
perforate artery 227dmg vs perforate artery 358dmg
backstab 1 155dmg vs backstab 1 209dmg
eviscerate 95dmg vs eviscerate 100dmg
kidney rupture 97dmg vs kidney rupture 102dmg
backstab 2 201dmg vs backstab 2 292dmg
thigh cut 109dmg vs thigh cut 121dmg
hamstring 100dmg vs hamstring 111dmg
puncture defense 78dmg vs puncture defense 71dmg

LA STYLES:
frost blade 78dmg vs frost blade 80dmg
counter slash 78dmg vs counter slash 71dmg
snowblind 105dmg vs snowblind 86dmg
ravager 94dmg vs ravager 80dmg
atrophy 108dmg vs atrophy 89dmg
doubler 108dmg vs doubler 88dmg
scathing blade 124dmg vs scathing blade 99dmg
polar light 119dmg vs polar light 94dmg
frost shadow 121dmg vs frost shadow 96dmg
comeback 121dmg vs comeback 95dmg

Obviously i left out the styles you won't get with both specs. doublefrost for example does 105dmg, snowsquall 119dmg, icy brilliance 128dmg, decaying rage 121dmg and aurora borealis 128dmg with the 50 LA spec. But since there is no way to compare it with 21la spec - it left it out. Same for the cs styles you wont get with 21cs compared to 50cs.

Tue 22 Jun 2021 10:36 PM by nono31

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 18 Jun 2021 2:58 PM
but tbh it was better before, i dont like the change for sb
i mean the dmg is ok when you get your frontal combo through but many ppl strafe or lag and then you miss the frontal very often basicly gimping your whole dmg
meanwhile NS get and ANYTIME combo with very high dmg and 30% ASR on it.....

my suggestion: remove snare on scathing blade and put 21-30% ASR on it, also remove frontal requirement for doubler or make doublefrost what it was, they signature move for zerks (202 dmg at 65 spec or something) . put dd proc on aurora borealis. then shadowzerk is kind of restored

This !

Wed 23 Jun 2021 7:02 AM by inoeth

this morning i was thinking about specing sword again because the multiplier on the frontal combo is higher than the LA one and it offers a bleeding.
combined with kvasirs sword and crafted off hand with dot you have quad dot.

not sure about exact spec yet but thought of something like

38 sword
50 la
33 stealth
33 envenom
18 CS

at rr7 obviously

edit:

i did an excel sheet and figured that 50 sword and 42 la is ahead of 50 la 42 sword

Wed 23 Jun 2021 2:05 PM by CowwoC

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jun 2021 7:02 AM
this morning i was thinking about specing sword again because the multiplier on the frontal combo is higher than the LA one and it offers a bleeding.
combined with kvasirs sword and crafted off hand with dot you have quad dot.

not sure about exact spec yet but thought of something like

38 sword
50 la
33 stealth
33 envenom
18 CS

at rr7 obviously

edit:

i did an excel sheet and figured that 50 sword and 42 la is ahead of 50 la 42 sword

Compared to axe?
Do you really use the frontal in LA for the asr debuff? If you can't land it on your targets, why would it be better with the frontal sword asr debuff or even the bleed follow up? I always use pillager because it's an anytimer - well or if possible aurora of course. You could even use plunder as pillager follow up for the bleed if you can't get of the after evade bleed or a other positional. Dunno about the speed of kvasir.

Thu 24 Jun 2021 2:33 PM by inoeth

CowwoC wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jun 2021 2:05 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jun 2021 7:02 AM
this morning i was thinking about specing sword again because the multiplier on the frontal combo is higher than the LA one and it offers a bleeding.
combined with kvasirs sword and crafted off hand with dot you have quad dot.

not sure about exact spec yet but thought of something like

38 sword
50 la
33 stealth
33 envenom
18 CS

at rr7 obviously

edit:

i did an excel sheet and figured that 50 sword and 42 la is ahead of 50 la 42 sword

Compared to axe?
Do you really use the frontal in LA for the asr debuff? If you can't land it on your targets, why would it be better with the frontal sword asr debuff or even the bleed follow up? I always use pillager because it's an anytimer - well or if possible aurora of course. You could even use plunder as pillager follow up for the bleed if you can't get of the after evade bleed or a other positional. Dunno about the speed of kvasir.

did you take any look at dmg rates and hit bonus? this sword combo has the best availablle for SBs high dmg, good hit bonus, good styleprocs (21asr, 13 bleed)
there is no other combo that can do this.

kvasir sword is only 3.5 speed but actually i run my infi with 3.3 mainhand and rip with that. the most important thing is to get close to 1.5s speed and use highest dmg styles possible

Fri 25 Jun 2021 8:05 AM by Dunga

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 23 Jun 2021 7:02 AM
this morning i was thinking about specing sword again because the multiplier on the frontal combo is higher than the LA one and it offers a bleeding.
combined with kvasirs sword and crafted off hand with dot you have quad dot.

not sure about exact spec yet but thought of something like

38 sword
50 la
33 stealth
33 envenom
18 CS

at rr7 obviously

edit:

i did an excel sheet and figured that 50 sword and 42 la is ahead of 50 la 42 sword

tryed all "old" specs (50sc,50la with comp weap.,...). At a closer look like u did i come out with 50sword,42la,33stealth,33env, nothing cs and this is by far the best one for me right now!
I run with craftet offhand(dot) , mh the debuff one and that works too. I will try it the next days with kvasir. did that one stack with lb, craftet dot? if i understand it right u mean for the 4te the bleed?

Fri 25 Jun 2021 3:23 PM by inoeth

the debuff weapon does not stack with envenom debuff
but i run 50 sword 42la now too

Fri 25 Jun 2021 4:09 PM by SgtGator

50Sw 44LA is what I ran with first as well. Currently trying other specs while things are free. The Str part of the str/con debuff proc does stack, just not the con. Though I used the 3.5spd MH Feather DoT and a 3.2spd OH Feather LT. The overall dmg was roughly 10 per style less than the 4.2/2.4, but gained the Feather DoT proc.

Sat 26 Jun 2021 5:11 AM by Dunga

inoeth wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jun 2021 3:23 PM
the debuff weapon does not stack with envenom debuff
but i run 50 sword 42la now too

i know, but i like the speed for the first hits and the str debuff. after that the dot one for sure

Sat 26 Jun 2021 1:54 PM by CowwoC

inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jun 2021 2:33 PM
did you take any look at dmg rates and hit bonus? this sword combo has the best availablle for SBs high dmg, good hit bonus, good styleprocs (21asr, 13 bleed)
there is no other combo that can do this.

kvasir sword is only 3.5 speed but actually i run my infi with 3.3 mainhand and rip with that. the most important thing is to get close to 1.5s speed and use highest dmg styles possible

I asked you if you compared the damage to axe, this was a serious question - because i wanted to see the difference in numbers if possible..
I also asked my questions because you said:

inoeth wrote: but tbh it was better before, i dont like the change for sb
i mean the dmg is ok when you get your frontal combo through but many ppl strafe or lag and then you miss the frontal very often basicly gimping your whole dmg
meanwhile NS get and ANYTIME combo with very high dmg and 30% ASR on it.....

So now you rely on the frontal sword asr debuff and the bleed follow-up, but at the same time you struggled with la to get the frontal combo off, because people strafe. What's the difference with sword, people magically stop to strafe? The to hit bonus is by the way the same as the la front combo. No doubt that the sword frontal is better than the la frontal, but that wasn't the point right. If you can't get off your frontal anyway, how is it making your overall damage better compared to axe? What are the dmg numbers between kvasir and dragonmight?

Losing the 30% asr debuff is huge if you can make it work, just saying.

Tue 29 Jun 2021 6:41 AM by nono31

Just try 50 LA.

Can't stun NS in 1v1. Lot of evade / miss cause anytime asr perf combo.

Never can do better than 20 % life left for them :'(

Results in 1v1 sin are better with 50 CS imo.

Death door and ripper styles do the job with some big damages .

Tue 29 Jun 2021 8:44 AM by inoeth

CowwoC wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jun 2021 1:54 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jun 2021 2:33 PM
did you take any look at dmg rates and hit bonus? this sword combo has the best availablle for SBs high dmg, good hit bonus, good styleprocs (21asr, 13 bleed)
there is no other combo that can do this.

kvasir sword is only 3.5 speed but actually i run my infi with 3.3 mainhand and rip with that. the most important thing is to get close to 1.5s speed and use highest dmg styles possible

I asked you if you compared the damage to axe, this was a serious question - because i wanted to see the difference in numbers if possible..
I also asked my questions because you said:

inoeth wrote: but tbh it was better before, i dont like the change for sb
i mean the dmg is ok when you get your frontal combo through but many ppl strafe or lag and then you miss the frontal very often basicly gimping your whole dmg
meanwhile NS get and ANYTIME combo with very high dmg and 30% ASR on it.....

So now you rely on the frontal sword asr debuff and the bleed follow-up, but at the same time you struggled with la to get the frontal combo off, because people strafe. What's the difference with sword, people magically stop to strafe? The to hit bonus is by the way the same as the la front combo. No doubt that the sword frontal is better than the la frontal, but that wasn't the point right. If you can't get off your frontal anyway, how is it making your overall damage better compared to axe? What are the dmg numbers between kvasir and dragonmight?

Losing the 30% asr debuff is huge if you can make it work, just saying.

axe does not have any good anytimer or frontal combo, so i ignored this question because its obvious that axe lacks there...
well you can only go for frontal combos or you skill CS...and you are right the hit boni on sword are the same as LA but sword also offers 0 def bonus while LA gives you a malus. i dont really know why i have to explain this, just take a look at the styles??! a comparison between kvasirs sword and dragonmight is useless because they do not have the same speeds, so dmg numbers are totally different anyway. at this point i think you might troll tbh....
i dont strafe so the side 30% asr is basicly useless in 90% of the fights anyway

Tue 29 Jun 2021 8:48 AM by inoeth

nono31 wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Jun 2021 6:41 AM
Just try 50 LA.

Can't stun NS in 1v1. Lot of evade / miss cause anytime asr perf combo.

Never can do better than 20 % life left for them :'(

Results in 1v1 sin are better with 50 CS imo.

Death door and ripper styles do the job with some big damages .

only if you can get off ripper several times, in all other cases 50 sword 42 LA will be much better in 1v1

Tue 29 Jun 2021 10:45 AM by Tashkent

With 50 sword you also get to the bleed cap easily (front chain, evade chain) and a hard hitting direct snare in Ragnarok.

Tue 29 Jun 2021 12:36 PM by WildWilbur

Tashkent wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Jun 2021 10:45 AM
and a hard hitting direct snare in Ragnarok.

You may want to look that up... -.-

Tue 29 Jun 2021 12:41 PM by inoeth

only side snares for sb and garotte...

Tue 29 Jun 2021 1:59 PM by CowwoC

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Jun 2021 8:44 AM
CowwoC wrote: ↑
Sat 26 Jun 2021 1:54 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jun 2021 2:33 PM
did you take any look at dmg rates and hit bonus? this sword combo has the best availablle for SBs high dmg, good hit bonus, good styleprocs (21asr, 13 bleed)
there is no other combo that can do this.

kvasir sword is only 3.5 speed but actually i run my infi with 3.3 mainhand and rip with that. the most important thing is to get close to 1.5s speed and use highest dmg styles possible

I asked you if you compared the damage to axe, this was a serious question - because i wanted to see the difference in numbers if possible..
I also asked my questions because you said:

inoeth wrote: but tbh it was better before, i dont like the change for sb
i mean the dmg is ok when you get your frontal combo through but many ppl strafe or lag and then you miss the frontal very often basicly gimping your whole dmg
meanwhile NS get and ANYTIME combo with very high dmg and 30% ASR on it.....

So now you rely on the frontal sword asr debuff and the bleed follow-up, but at the same time you struggled with la to get the frontal combo off, because people strafe. What's the difference with sword, people magically stop to strafe? The to hit bonus is by the way the same as the la front combo. No doubt that the sword frontal is better than the la frontal, but that wasn't the point right. If you can't get off your frontal anyway, how is it making your overall damage better compared to axe? What are the dmg numbers between kvasir and dragonmight?

Losing the 30% asr debuff is huge if you can make it work, just saying.

axe does not have any good anytimer or frontal combo, so i ignored this question because its obvious that axe lacks there...
well you can only go for frontal combos or you skill CS...and you are right the hit boni on sword are the same as LA but sword also offers 0 def bonus while LA gives you a malus. i dont really know why i have to explain this, just take a look at the styles??! a comparison between kvasirs sword and dragonmight is useless because they do not have the same speeds, so dmg numbers are totally different anyway. at this point i think you might troll tbh....
i dont strafe so the side 30% asr is basicly useless in 90% of the fights anyway

If anyone trolls here it's you. You don't provide any numbers and get caught in your own contradictions. Obviously dragonmight and kvasir have different dmg numbers because of their different speed BUT that's the point of comparing each other - do i really have to explain this to you? And yet again you can't get off the LA frontal but sword frontal does the job? You ignore the 30% side asr and the side stun which is super easy to land - because - uhm you don't strafe? What are you doing while fighting other sins, just spamming your sword frontal as backup for your sword anytimer? lmao, you are hilarious. You might spec into cs and spam garotte my friend, this play style should suite you - no offense.

Tue 29 Jun 2021 2:03 PM by Tashkent

You should use the sidestun regardless of spec.

Tue 29 Jun 2021 2:07 PM by CowwoC

Tashkent wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Jun 2021 2:03 PM
You can use the LA sidestun with 50 sword and 4x LA too.

No he can't, he does not strafe. The point is, it helps nobody to just blow out "sword is better" without any data behind it. I mean he tested it, right? Just drop some numbers so that all can make conclusions. If it fit's his play style to spam anytimer fine, but if i drop the 30% asr and dragonmight - there is better a good reason for it other than the frontal of sword is slightly better, which he probably can not get off anyway.

Tue 29 Jun 2021 2:34 PM by inoeth

dude.... you have the option to go frontal LA, frontal sword or anytime CS ... sure it sucks to use frontals but from all those three options sword is the best, what do you want from me now? i was not talking about side styles at all because its not my style to strafe them, if you want to do that do it and dont get on my fucking nerves... rly man i was just pointing out the benefits of sword frontal combo and you turn it into a l2p thing. get out or contribute something usefull.

whats the point in posting dmg numbers when you clearly know that those are different? thing is the faster you swing and the higher the growth rate on used styles, the higher is the dmg output over time and sword clearly wins here just from looking up data from the char planer, its easy as that. maybe you bring some numbers if you think its the complete opposite. you know i dont have to prove anything but you have if you think im wrong....

gosh gimme a break

Tue 29 Jun 2021 3:26 PM by CowwoC

inoeth wrote: dude.... you have the option to go frontal LA, frontal sword or anytime CS ... sure it sucks to use frontals but from all those three options sword is the best, what do you want from me now? i was not talking about side styles at all because its not my style to strafe them, if you want to do that do it and dont get on my fucking nerves... rly man i was just pointing out the benefits of sword frontal combo and you turn it into a l2p thing. get out or contribute something usefull.

whats the point in posting dmg numbers when you clearly know that those are different? thing is the faster you swing and the higher the growth rate on used styles, the higher is the dmg output over time and sword clearly wins here just from looking up data from the char planer, its easy as that. maybe you bring some numbers if you think its the complete opposite. you know i dont have to prove anything but you have if you think im wrong....

gosh gimme a break

Ok what ever, you obviously still don't get it.

By the way, it's not your gameplay skills which lack - i have never seen you - so why would i make that assumption other from your own sayings that you struggle to land frontal styles - it's your way how to discuss. At the beginning i asked you a simple question and you felt attacked, revealed your wrong assumptions about the to hit bonus, said kvasir is only 3.5 but since you rip with your infil and a 3.3 weapon(lmao what a great comparison) sword is still superior. Then i pointed out that the sword frontal is indeed the best, but a decent comparison between lines is not just one positional which shines - unless it's really op which the sword frontal is not. Again if it fits your playstyle it's all good but don't try to sell a donkey for a stallion just because you don't use all mechanics a class has to offer, which means using other positionals and reactionals and not just spamming anytimer.

And since i don't have to proof anything myself, my opinion is that the 30% asr and having access to dragonmight is better than the frontal sword combo, since you can land sidestyles almost as easy as frontal styles anyway and you also can push bleed stacks without it. But hey your reply shows me that there is no point trying to discuss with someone who acts like [...] beacause his feelings are hurt or something. But thanks anyway and have a good day.

Wed 30 Jun 2021 7:33 AM by inoeth

well hmm soo to fit your argumentation style, would it not be just better to use ragnarok with dragonfury all the time? i mean strafing a backstyle is just as easy as landing a frontal is it? and since you are always run through the target, dismissing any hits of your opponent since "target is not in view", you do not need any ASR aswell.

sounds stupid? well thats how i feel about your comments.

have a good day aswell