Giving VWs the styleset from Live

The style set they have now was based on the fact that they got 360 evade and dodger, which they don't anymore. Would be nice if they could get the style set that they currently have on live.

Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:23 PM by Eodis

Bad idea. Procs on a 2 styles chain from front/back/side with high GR would be crazy here. VW is in a good state.

Mon 21 Jan 2019 6:18 PM by Renork

Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 5:01 PM
The style set they have now was based on the fact that they got 360 evade and dodger, which they don't anymore. Would be nice if they could get the style set that they currently have on live.

I don't think Grasping roots --> Conflag is necessary here. But, Stunning Blade --> Blizzard Blade would be a nice change, that or castable disease or pbaoe disease to add utility to the class. Even with those things added, don't expect to be taken over a BM :^)

I don't believe they are looking into class balance for now anyways.

Mon 21 Jan 2019 7:37 PM by opossum12

Wow if VWs had stunning-> Blizz blade combo they would rock the solo world (aside from cheesy reavers and their 9 sec slam).

Remember peolpe don't have AoM charges here.

Mon 21 Jan 2019 8:20 PM by Renork

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Mon 21 Jan 2019 7:37 PM
Wow if VWs had stunning-> Blizz blade combo they would rock the solo world (aside from cheesy reavers and their 9 sec slam).

Remember peolpe don't have AoM charges here.

You are assuming conditions of not having purge up my dear? Then, sure.

But what about a delicious champion running through you to land annihilation + debuffing a huge chunk of your con away? Now you're stunned for 9 seconds, getting back styled while having a large chunk of your hits gone. To make it spicy, just throw that fabulous ST down to reset your stun (It wasn't working during i50, but apparently it works now?)

Or, perhaps a thane that gets the hit on you and starts to dd you down? Get close? excellent, let me just slam you, back snare you with conquer x3-4 and proceed to nuke you again after gaining some distance. Or proceed to cheese and drop ST on you, why not right?

You mentioned reavers, in solo fights without purge it is extremely likely that you will die to stun/levi/levi/levi/levi. If that fails, well..run through those indigo/levi styles for maximum cheese.

Have you tried fighting a warrior solo? Not only will you get slammed and have most of your hits be gone by the time it wears off BUT now you have to deal with them swapping to s/s, most likely with a min. of 30 parry and 42 shield (if not 50 shield), this of course without factoring in any MoB or MoP.

So, it is highly unlikely that a valewalker with 2-part blizzard blade will become the king of solo fights, but hey our imaginations are full of endless possibilities...so technically anything is possible :^)

If you want to factor purge in, then you're going to have to dance to land your SB/BB, and hope that it doesn't get resisted. Additionally, most people who are habitual soloers will not let you dance or run through them. But like I said, anything is possible :^)

Tue 22 Jan 2019 1:23 PM by Tritri

You talk a lot about cheese to point out people that just play the game

Tue 22 Jan 2019 4:30 PM by Renork

Tritri wrote: ↑
Tue 22 Jan 2019 1:23 PM
You talk a lot about cheese to point out people that just play the game

Your post is irrelevant to the thread. Bonus points for your lack of reading comprehension.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 10:17 AM by Elekur

Hey, the styles would be too much but what they could do is giving the VW the Group DA buff so he is more desireable in Melee tank grps besides Ichor and BA and spike damage

Thu 24 Jan 2019 2:01 PM by Calconious

While I do think Vales could use some love in the style dept. I think the live version of styles would be way too strong for Phoenix. A well played Vale on live can literally play with people in combat with the root style & stuns, and can kite away when ever they want to cast lifetaps.

I think all they really need here is maybe Blizzard blade being only a 2 part chain and doing something with the level 50 style so it isn't 4th style in an evade chain. IMO. Blizzard blade 2 part chain.... 18 style becomes detaunt. Conflagaration 2nd in chain from the 34 style (with no root)... and keep the 95 dmg DD proc . So Conflagaration chain becomes the "anytime" styles to use. If they don't want to change anything with the styles they should at least make Taunting Scythe much much better....higher growth rate and high dmg with no defense penalty.

Do the devs on Phoenix have the ability to completely change spells/styles or do they just use a version that was part of a patch for original daoc?

Thu 24 Jan 2019 7:00 PM by Foofmonger

I think most people are in agreement on the basics here:

1. VW's need some love on Phoenix.
2. Replicating what they can do on live is way too strong.
3. There needs to be some changes made that make them better then they currently are on Phoenix, but nowhere near what they are on live.

As to what exactly those changes are, I don't know, but just wanted to summarize the consensus here.

Personally I think there are a variety of options. If we look at VW's on live, we can clearly see what changes over the years since 1.65, and the devs don't necessarily have to implement all of the changes of course, but some of them could be nice. I see no reason to invent "new" abilities or whatever for the VW class, Mythic did a fine job of balancing on live eventually so they should be able to take bits and pieces and make them more viable.

Some Options would be:

1. Pick and choose the proper style changes to quasi-replicate live, but not all of them. Some options could be breaking the 3-4 part chains into smaller chains as they did in live. Another option would be to break the 4 part evade chain and put the backsnare in. Etc.. I would prefer style changes personally as Mythic realized the 3-4 part reaction chains were garbage.
2. Implement some of the Arb spell changes that went into live (but not necessarily all of them). There were a lot of tweaks here, so whether we are talking about the disease, or another one of the added/changed spells is fine.
3. A combination of both 1+2 (which I think is the best option). A couple slight tweaks to the styles, and maybe 1 (or 2) of the spells that they got later on.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 8:07 PM by Renork

I honestly don't think you're going to see changes to the class for quite a long time. On paper, someone who is in charge of balancing but does not have experience playing a valewalker will immediately find the absorb buff and castable lifedrain and assume they are a god-like class who just requires "skill" to work.

I still see people bringing up that a valewalker has defenses equal to that of a pally/arms, which is obviously false (apparently people assume the armor factor that comes with plate is a not important and focus solely on the absorb).

The class was not touched in Uthgard despite being the #1 least played class because some random clueless players would bring up an absorb buff and castable lifedrain as a rebuttal against any proposals for change. I personally was going to play mine right up until they removed dodger (Evade 4 w/o advanced evade? pass~).

Majority of you are in agreement that some changes need to be made, so maybe the Phoenix team will be more receptive to feedback. Live valewalkers would be way too powerful in this current version (they are still very much underplayed on live but population is on life support at this point), but you can tweak their styles and add utility without breaking the class.

Thu 24 Jan 2019 8:33 PM by Foofmonger

Renork wrote: ↑
Thu 24 Jan 2019 8:07 PM
I honestly don't think you're going to see changes to the class for quite a long time. On paper, someone who is in charge of balancing but does not have experience playing a valewalker will immediately find the absorb buff and castable lifedrain and assume they are a god-like class who just requires "skill" to work.

I still see people bringing up that a valewalker has defenses equal to that of a pally/arms, which is obviously false (apparently people assume the armor factor that comes with plate is a not important and focus solely on the absorb).

The class was not touched in Uthgard despite being the #1 least played class because some random clueless players would bring up an absorb buff and castable lifedrain as a rebuttal against any proposals for change. I personally was going to play mine right up until they removed dodger (Evade 4 w/o advanced evade? pass~).

Majority of you are in agreement that some changes need to be made, so maybe the Phoenix team will be more receptive to feedback. Live valewalkers would be way too powerful in this current version (they are still very much underplayed on live but population is on life support at this point), but you can tweak their styles and add utility without breaking the class.

Well hopefully the phoenix devs will be receptive. I mean it isn't rocket science here to see the massive changes the class went through over the last 18 years on live and put 2 and 2 together and realize "this class was not very good when it came out".

Sorry that Uthgard was a disappointment, I never played there personally. I do remember playing a VW on live when SI came out, and they were very similar to what we have on Phoenix. It's not an unplayable class by any means, and it's really unique and cool in playstyle, but as it was initially conceived of by Mythic, the class was too clunky in melee and didn't have enough utility options as a caster.

Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:17 PM by sinadin

all I want is a good anytimer - this way it won't make VWs overpowered, since we have to decide which we use it as a backup for...after evade or parry

Sat 26 Jan 2019 6:11 PM by majedorcanie

Need Style Side in 2 not in three. Style Evade and Parry in 2 too.
Need a second style after Damaging Grasp.
Need A back style who have snare like Foxfire.
And could have too Guard because VW are the real Defender of Hybrasil.
I take too a disease AE wh is castable.

Please