Trinketing with Alchemy (start with Alchemy or Tailor?)

So, i know that it is possible here (which i love) but i am unsure how to actually approach it, as i am not very well versed in the different intricacies of crafting/levelling craftspeccs

So far my experience for trinketing is (and please correct me whereever i am wrong), that you basically level tailoring to 800+ (which levels leatherworking and clothworking) and use trinketing/AC/Fletching to get metalworking and woodworking up to par also. Having all of them at 800+skill allows trinketing DF dia seal items (sidequestion: does it allow me to salvage basically all Items ingame or do i have to go higher for the endgame drops?). Going Alchemy wouldn't give the other professions, so trinketing wasn't a thing on an alch character.

All that said, my goal is to (eventually) max Alchemy, but also be able to trinket for money gains. But since levelling Alchemy doesn't increase any of the 4 material-skills they would have to be levelled seperatly anyways. And this is where i am asking myself, how to best approach that task. Will i end up basically levelling tailoring->then raising the secondaries just as before to trinket? Or is there a benefit to having the high alchemy skill and not needing another "main"-craft at a high lvl?

The main reason i ask this is regarding cost, at the beginning i will be short on money. If i will level tailoring a lot anyways to get to Status "trinketing ready", then i might want to start with that and ignore alchemy in the beginning, so i do not delay my ability to start salvaging/trinketing drops during levelling/early farming. But if there is an "easy" way out using alchemy as the main-highest skill i would really appreciate the info

Tl;dr: Want to go Alchemy + Trinketing. Should i still start with tailoring to get to trinketing capability asap, or is the cost difference between going alchemy and levelling the secondaries via trinketing really small?

Tue 8 Jan 2019 2:50 PM by Ardri

Tailor first as it's by far the cheapest primary craft, maybe 1-2p? But it's your cash crop to fund everything else in the game. You can only trinket a secondary (metal) as high as your primary craft (tailor). However, you can raise a secondary (metal) above your highest primary (tailor) by lvl'ing another primary craft that gives the secondary that you want(wc/ac). Need 900 secondary (metal) to salvage all metals in game, and 1000 for max return efficiency.

Step 1: Lvl tailor to 400
Step 2: Trinket metal/wood to 400 (buy the metal bars/wood from NPC, make trinkets, sell back to NPC)
Step 3: Lvl AC and WC to 300 (which raises metal from 400 to 1000)
Step 4: Lvl tailor to 1000 (cloth/leather is now 1000)
Step 5: Lvl fletching to 600 (which raises wood to 1000). You can forgo this if you want. Only bows/staffs/instruments to salvage for woodworking.

That's the simplified version. Now all secondaries are 1k and you can salvage everything in the game. Then do alch.

Tue 8 Jan 2019 3:07 PM by Sepplord

Ardri wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Jan 2019 2:50 PM
Tailor first as it's by far the cheapest primary craft, maybe 1-2p? But it's your cash crop to fund everything else in the game. You can only trinket a secondary (metal) as high as your primary craft (tailor). However, you can raise a secondary (metal) above your highest primary (tailor) by lvl'ing another primary craft that gives the secondary that you want(wc/ac). Need 900 secondary (metal) to salvage all metals in game, and 1000 for max return efficiency.

Step 1: Lvl tailor to 400
Step 2: Trinket metal/wood to 400 (buy the metal bars/wood from NPC, make trinkets, sell back to NPC)
Step 3: Lvl AC and WC to 300 (which raises metal from 400 to 1000)
Step 4: Lvl tailor to 1000 (cloth/leather is now 1000)
Step 5: Lvl fletching to 600 (which raises wood to 1000)

That's the simplified version. Now all secondaries are 1k and you can salvage everything in the game. Then do alch.

thanks a lot for that detailed explanation, and guidance.
It seems i also had a few misconception about maxskill primary/secondary. I didn't know it was only for skillups through trinketting.

I am still confused why the following wouldn't be possible (thanks for that format/outlining, i wasn't able to articulate my process well before):

Step 1: Lvl alchemy to 400 //instead of tailor
Step 2: Trinket metal/wood/leather/cloth to 400 (buy the metal bars/wood from NPC, make trinkets, sell back to NPC) //to catch up the leather/clothworking that is missing from tailor 1-400
Step 3: Lvl AC and WC to 300 (which raises metal from 400 to 1000)
Step 4: Lvl tailor to 600 (cloth/leather is now 1000) //instead of 1000
Step 5: Lvl fletching to 600 (which raises wood to 1000)

It seems as if that way, i would save the cost of levelling tailor from 600-1000 and replace it with having alchemy already at 400 (and more work trinketting).

Could you explain what i am missing if this is incorrect?

Wed 9 Jan 2019 5:15 PM by Ardri

Yea, that would work and may actually be better. Although, trinketing for cloth/leather is a bit more time consuming and a pain than metal/wood, but i guess it's only 1-400. And then you're saving time by not having to do 600-1000 tailoring.

Thu 10 Jan 2019 2:51 AM by Armsmancer

Trinketing here was hardly worth it for me. I had LGM all crafts in the beta and for the time it took to salvage and bag management to save stuff, etc, it was pretty "Meh" at the end of the day. The biggest benefit to me was long farms and I saved bag space by stacking metals and wood, but the difference of me just vendoring all the ROGs was pretty close to the trinketing.

In the very, very long run it may be worth it but the cost is still all the extra time. This server was just different than uth/genesis in this regard so the old wisdom doesn't really apply that much.

I went alch first mostly for the self buff pots especially since they scaled (no need for lv 10 lv 20 lv 30 STR pots etc, just one that scales to your level is what is in, healpots/power/regen however are levelled ones).

Alch is very cheap at first to get up to 400+ because of the poisons being fast and easy. In the stress test I played a lot that weekend, and at level 30 I had enough for 400 alch again, and 200+g to spare to form guild and help others. This was with vendoring everything.

Alch and SC made me the most money, AC/WC/ and especialy fletching made me the least. I got them up mostly just to fill the gaps the beta had. The nature of #'s at launch will likely fluctuate this more with higher demand. With the advent of /craftqueue and sellbag macros crafting is definitely easier, I recommend doing the crafting quests for the craft boost gear as soon as you can. At level 30 I was making lv 450 pots in 3 seconds each with the 3 available pieces at that time in the stress test.

So to answer I'd say go alch so you can fund your exp'ing and adventures, it was very welcome I'm sure when I came to a group with invig and power pots I had and when solo I could be fully buffed. Tailor and other crafting can always wait - not like you can SC it or something at the launch and you seem to be asking for what to do during this time. Buffs and healpots and especially invig pots change your 1-50 in every way that being able to craft 96-99% qual non-sc'd gear when ROGs are dropping all over the place led me to decide on Alch for myself. Any other questions just ask.

Thu 10 Jan 2019 9:16 AM by Sepplord

thanks to both of you for the input

i guess it boils down to the actual gains from trinketing ROGs compared to just selling them. I thought that was still quite the gain, but i will have to dig deeper into forum and look for the thread where people had already done extensive testing regarding this. I'll report back when i find it

Thu 10 Jan 2019 1:50 PM by Sepplord

So, i found the relevant thread (wasn't hard to find, it's just a few posts down) https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3045

Accordingly even when talking about ROGs salvaging does add quite a huge increase to the value of the item (if you don't want to check the thread, we are talking roughly *2 for salvaging all materials, and then additonal *2for trinketing wood/metal, leather/cloth seems to be less profitable trinketing.)

That is the pure monetary value though. Armsmancer's Argument of opportunity cost does make sense to me, and especially in a set-grp situation it is probably the best to power-through the levelling process and invest the "saved" time into farming at high-lvl instead of bothering to make sure you can salvage during levelling.

So, what do i take away from this personally? I will probably lvl to 15-20 (maybe longer, depends on money issues) while selling everything, also depends on how i get groups, if freinds are online etc....). Then go for alchemy main up to 700/800 and level my secondaries via trinketing till there, then use tailoring/fletching/etc. to increase secondaries to 1100+ for moneymaking purposes.
That money can then be funneled into Alchemy for the expensive skillups.

I have no idea if that is the best way (probably not) or even a good way....but at least on paper it makes sense to me and i thought after ASKING for loads of information, i should at least share my own conclusion in the end.

Fri 11 Jan 2019 9:54 PM by Seigmoraig

According to this reply from Uthred
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3364&p=21430&hilit=salvage#p21430
trinketing will only be useful to level up your salvaging skills, it will not give any additional money than just selling the metal bars/cloth squares.

Secondly, for ROGs, all the items will give the same value regardless of the material salvaged because the drops will be mostly tailored to your class. so a level 35 plate helm will give the same value as a level 35 cloth helm.

Sat 12 Jan 2019 12:31 AM by Turtle006

This is from the "Server Economy" thread: https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3045
Tamlan did some actual testing: (there are a lot more numbers there also)

1 arcanium bar purchased from merchant: 5g 10s 30c
1 arcanium bar sold to merchant: 2g 55s 15c (.5 of purchase)
1 metal item salvaged produces: 3 arcanium bars
1 bracket (1 bar) sold to vendor: 5g 3s 1c
1 hinge (2 bars) sold to vendor: 10g 6s 2c

item sold to vendor: 4g 87s 50c
value of bars sold for item: 7g 65s 45c
value of trinkets sold for item: 15g 9s 3c

Sat 12 Jan 2019 8:00 AM by Sepplord

Seigmoraig wrote: ↑
Fri 11 Jan 2019 9:54 PM
According to this reply from Uthred
https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3364&p=21430&hilit=salvage#p21430
trinketing will only be useful to level up your salvaging skills, it will not give any additional money than just selling the metal bars/cloth squares.

I am a bit confused what you are referring to, i reread the link you posted and uthread doesnt even mention trinketing at all. And as turtle posted, the tests that have been done in beta show trinketing to be very profitable