Viper vs MoP - Phoenix Freeshard

I have a question in what does more DPS overall?

Viper5 deals about 450-600 dmg per application depending on resists. Yes, it can be purged but it can also be re-applied for the guarantee 40% or so of someone's life.

My experience is that it's been nice to finish off someone after I die or added on, or for tank fights getting two application off is nice Vs'ing a Warrior but also at times feels like a waste.

MoP obviously can make your hits harder by achieving critical, but my question is just how much harder are ppl hitting and how often? Is it enough dps and at a high enough rate to where its just outshines Viper possibly in raw dmg?

Any input would be great.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 8:44 AM by Loki

I believe crit damage is capped at 50% of the hit , and I'be been hit by slash infs for 150 garrote style damage +70 crit damage which puts their damage output way above my capability as SB. I'm guessing it depends on your playstyle , if you want burst or a bit more sustain against tankier targets. I'd go with MoP, people add too fast here so you need to kill and get away. You could argue that Viper can secure a kill, but are you willing to step away and bet on your victim not having pots/purge/vanish up ?

Also usually 1v1 fights last enough for you to be able to reapply a dot with the last hit.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 9:32 AM by Turano

Viper has lost most of It's benefit with the reapply nerf. Since you can't repoison on every swing and you "only" gain about 40 extra damage per tick of lifebane with Viper5 the damage boost for 30 points investment is pretty underwhelming

Fri 7 Jun 2019 11:55 AM by Lillebror

Agree it sounds like MoP is better but, open on a target and make sure disease and Lifebane ticks and just run away sounds appealing too, guess its about playstyle and im not even sure will have opners exept the first BS on my Inf.

hitting a resistent tank in the 60-80 region and all of a sudden a 50% crit isnt much use.

Fri 7 Jun 2019 6:52 PM by Corpse

After testing both: Viper5 is superior IMO.

Viper5 - curable, but overall more reliable if that makes any sense. Dependent on player's engagement, in watching for it being purged, and timing it perfectly for re-application. It has the ability to do 450-1200 dependent on the length of the fight and players ability to re-apply it after the first one wears off.

Viper5 deals abt 40-60% per application for most classes. Not including a CS style opening.

MoP9 - Yes it makes your dps go from 80-120/30's to an average for abt 150-175 per hit, but those hits/dps cant be given if CC'd or if u miss.

That being said if a dot with Viper5 is landed, even being CC'd or miss a swing, your still damaging your opponent, and at a decent rate. Even if you had a bad start or were jumped there are chances of re-dotting someone before death to finish them off in hope they cant cure it or Vanish. (kill is better than no kill, especially if your gonna die anyways). You also have a small chance of someone not being temp'd in which the Viper5 alone will destroy them with just 1 hit. (I've come across this a few times).

Sat 8 Jun 2019 2:17 AM by Turano

Lifebane will do 5 ticks of 58 damage in 16 seconds on 26% body resists. That is 290 damage combined (which is pretty sad when you think about it).
Viper5 enhances this by 75%, giving you 5 ticks of 102 damage for a total of 510 damage.
So in total viper 5 brings you 220 damage over 16 seconds

A decent crit on PA can already be more than that

Sat 8 Jun 2019 5:49 AM by Corpse

16 seconds? Life bane is 20 seconds long that ticks for its damage ever 4 seconds. Meaning it gives 5 ticks of dmg.
(For numbers purpose)

Non-Viper LB (20secs ticks 5x) 50+50+50+50+50 =250 dps in 20 seconds + Second application Cap of appox 500dmg
Viper5 (20sec ticks 5x) 100+100+100+100+100= 500 dps in 20 seconds. + Second application cap of approx. 1,000dmg.

Well geared tanks have around 1700-2k life I'm assuming? So in essence between u evading and them blocking you can take 25-50%+ of their health away just from your dot ticks.

The dmg difference is 50 dmg (obviously) and depending on resists. Again capped resist Dot ticks low 100, Low res dot ticks 130's.
The dmg difference is roughly the same in melee spec'ing MoP9 vs no MoP.

The difference all together is the Viper is dealing that dmg while (again) if your CC'd or missing your melee hits ect…
You can argue Purge, but you also have the ability to weapon swap. (every good sin should be doing anyways, just good practice/form)
You can argue Vanish, but then again Vanish trumps all dps output cuz it gets them away so it doesn't matter when comparing to vanish.

Hope this makes sense.

Sat 8 Jun 2019 5:52 AM by Corpse

From what I've noticed here in Phx (although easy to temp) many are not completely temp'd. Hitting a person with low res with a garrote+Viper5 u see them die with just that 1 hit, allowing you to take on a second individual. This scenario happens to me a few times a day actually, and without the Viper I would not of been as successful. ( I believe.)

Sat 8 Jun 2019 9:14 AM by Turano

Corpse wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Jun 2019 5:49 AM
16 seconds? Life bane is 20 seconds long that ticks for its damage ever 4 seconds. Meaning it gives 5 ticks of dmg.
(For numbers purpose)

Non-Viper LB (20secs ticks 5x) 50+50+50+50+50 =250 dps in 20 seconds + Second application Cap of appox 500dmg
Viper5 (20sec ticks 5x) 100+100+100+100+100= 500 dps in 20 seconds. + Second application cap of approx. 1,000dmg.

Well geared tanks have around 1700-2k life I'm assuming? So in essence between u evading and them blocking you can take 25-50%+ of their health away just from your dot ticks.

The dmg difference is 50 dmg (obviously) and depending on resists. Again capped resist Dot ticks low 100, Low res dot ticks 130's.
The dmg difference is roughly the same in melee spec'ing MoP9 vs no MoP.

The difference all together is the Viper is dealing that dmg while (again) if your CC'd or missing your melee hits ect…
You can argue Purge, but you also have the ability to weapon swap. (every good sin should be doing anyways, just good practice/form)
You can argue Vanish, but then again Vanish trumps all dps output cuz it gets them away so it doesn't matter when comparing to vanish.

Hope this makes sense.

That is the problem, you are pulling this numbers out of your a## while I have tested it ingame on the dummies.
It IS 5 ticks á 58 damage in 16 seconds even if it SHOULD BE 6 ticks in 20 seconds, don't ask me why, the numbers in the char planner are false.

With your numbers viper 5 would give a 100% bonus, but it IS (in that case the char planner is right) 75%

You can keep using viper 5 if it works for you, it surely has it's moments over mop (especially when you want to kite someone)
I'm just giving you the correct numbers and not some fantasy ones

Sat 8 Jun 2019 7:20 PM by Numatic

It's all give and take. MoP is about burst damage. Viper is about sustained. Hitting a high crit with PA then CD can be devastating. With Pa + crit, CD +crit + LB tick you're looking at around 800 damage in 2.0 seconds give or take.. The reason alot of assasins forget about viper is because you want to kill as fast as possible. But it's all RnG with MoP. You never know when those big crits will come. Viper and MoP are very good in very different situations and playstyles. It's like comparing a cabby to a fire wizard. One will do more damage over a period of time but the other can dish out alot more in a shorter period. All depends on what you want.

Sat 8 Jun 2019 8:30 PM by Corpse

Numatic yes you are correct, my statement was just that (for me) more often than not I've ben in situations where fights lasted longer than normal. Especially with such high proc rates on armor's. That being said I've never kited anyone, nor would even try on a sin.

You say you tested, but so have I. I still don't know how u get 16 secs, that mean your ticks would be every 3 secs not 4. AND if that's the case that means its even better.

5ticks every 4 secs = total 20sec.

5ticks within 16secs = 3.333333 secs.

So according to you despite the dmg your getting more dps outta your poison then you should according to char planner. Numbers aren't coming out of my ass, they are numbers I see that tick constantly depending on who I fight. On other sins who are the only majority who really cap Body it seem, Ticks for abt 103, haven't seen any less than that really, and I've seen tics as high as 135's. Dummies are not accurate, cuz not everyone on the server is fully temp'd and capp'd resist, A LOT are not.

Sun 9 Jun 2019 1:23 AM by Turano

Corpse wrote: ↑
Sat 8 Jun 2019 8:30 PM
5ticks every 4 secs = total 20sec.

5ticks within 16secs = 3.333333 secs.

No it is 5 ticks every 4 seconds, the first is instantly when the dot is applied, then 4 more every 4 seconds to a total of 5 after 16 seconds

Sun 9 Jun 2019 6:38 AM by teiloh

Does Viper work on DoT proc/charges and Bleeds as well?

Sun 9 Jun 2019 6:50 AM by Lillebror

If you hit at close to cap swing speed thats about 10 melee swings, so if you wanna reapply before it goes out 8-9 swings.
If it ticks for 100 each time it should be a killer after you applied disease. Just reapplie dot before you bail. Atleast easy on paper =)

Bs with dot, move just so much they dont give up and they follow you. Let the dot work some and reengage. If they are super idiot you even manage to doble open from stealth

When i plan to do stuff like this i often Get insta purged on and plan is out of the window most often =)