Are Scouts still gimp in this patch?
Scout gimp?
Started 12 Jan 2019
by
acoffee
in
Albion
Sat 12 Jan 2019 5:54 AM
by
Wilfu
Honestly i haven't tested the server for a few months but when i did they seemed fine. In rvr they were fine and in solo PvE i could usually solo anything OJ without much issue. With all the QoL changes to the leveling experience i don't think scouts will have much issue hitting 50 and with the changes to Crit shot being able to trigger on anything not in melee already it will be easier to engage healers/casters fights.
Mon 14 Jan 2019 6:48 AM
by
Drunkgrunt11b
From everything i hear archers are at their worse state here.
Mon 14 Jan 2019 7:47 AM
by
Cadebrennus
Wilfu wrote: ↑Sat 12 Jan 2019 5:54 AMHonestly i haven't tested the server for a few months but when i did they seemed fine. In rvr they were fine and in solo PvE i could usually solo anything OJ without much issue. With all the QoL changes to the leveling experience i don't think scouts will have much issue hitting 50 and with the changes to Crit shot being able to trigger on anything not in melee already it will be easier to engage healers/casters fights.
There is a massive difference between the beginning of beta and the end of beta regarding melee and archery damage, and the difference wasn't in the Archer's favor. Not just with the physical damage "adjustment" (heavily downwards) but also in the criteria for Critshots. The changes at the end of beta are now live
Sat 19 Jan 2019 9:00 PM
by
Dakkhon
Sadly Scouts are gimp here by a huge margin. The 2 other archers are way better off at this point as it was back in the day unless you had a BB. The mid and Hib archer have self buffs and a pet for one. The extra range you get for the scout (if its still a thing here) is useless and can't compare unless you are buffed. So this will require you to either farm for cash or make your own pots which are close i think to the self buffs of the other archers. Either way they are already ahead of the game from the start. i would skip the scout imo unless you plan to run with a visi group and Albs do not invite Scouts to their 8 man. the Ranger is probably the better of the two but the mid archer has a pet and can use spear for really good damage. Choice is yours though. I love the Scout class but its clear they didnt do anything with it here. Bottom line you need buffs to even think about fighting in the stealth game or visi. Good luck 
Sat 19 Jan 2019 11:01 PM
by
Ganil
The devs buffed some classes so maybe they'll buff him later.
On a side note, dual was nerfed wich is a undirect buff for scout. Also I think pots are better than they used to be.
On a side note, dual was nerfed wich is a undirect buff for scout. Also I think pots are better than they used to be.
Sun 20 Jan 2019 12:19 AM
by
Cadebrennus
Scouts are the best for grouping with Visi or other stealthers because of Shield, which can *gasp* do more than just Slam.
Hunters are the most versatile and can put out more melee DPS than a Ranger if specced similarly to a Ranger for melee. The pet also makes them kings of the ranged game, with the only drawback being the pet's pathetic run speed.
Scouts are a close second in the ranged game due to Shield. Rangers just plain suck at the ranged game vs other Archers.
Dual wielding is cool looking and the only tangible benefit is dual wield which comes out to about the same damage as a Hunter with Spear or 2hand sword. At RR5 the offhand BASE DAMAGE hits between 47% to 69%, which is a spec of between 18 CD and 50 CD. The benefit here isn't the offhand damage (which is pathetic) it's the additional chance to proc, which after multiplying proc chance, is about 4% to 6% per round in addition to the mainhand's chance of 10%. The downside is that a dual wielder has an additional chance to get defensive procs on them, so 14% to 16% total as opposed to a Scout with 1hander or Hunter with Spear or 2hander at 10% (keep in mind that the Hunter is putting out equal DPS with less risk than the Ranger, considering that misses screw over the Hunter more than the Ranger or Scout.)
Hunters are the most versatile and can put out more melee DPS than a Ranger if specced similarly to a Ranger for melee. The pet also makes them kings of the ranged game, with the only drawback being the pet's pathetic run speed.
Scouts are a close second in the ranged game due to Shield. Rangers just plain suck at the ranged game vs other Archers.
Dual wielding is cool looking and the only tangible benefit is dual wield which comes out to about the same damage as a Hunter with Spear or 2hand sword. At RR5 the offhand BASE DAMAGE hits between 47% to 69%, which is a spec of between 18 CD and 50 CD. The benefit here isn't the offhand damage (which is pathetic) it's the additional chance to proc, which after multiplying proc chance, is about 4% to 6% per round in addition to the mainhand's chance of 10%. The downside is that a dual wielder has an additional chance to get defensive procs on them, so 14% to 16% total as opposed to a Scout with 1hander or Hunter with Spear or 2hander at 10% (keep in mind that the Hunter is putting out equal DPS with less risk than the Ranger, considering that misses screw over the Hunter more than the Ranger or Scout.)
Sun 20 Jan 2019 5:46 PM
by
Tillbeast
Unfortunately a scout with no ability to self buff is the weaker of the 3 archer classes when solo. Scouts with a buff bot on original servers were easily the best archers when solo. In small stealth groups however scouts are very good especially with there shield slam to assist other melee stealthers. Not that albion needs any help in small scale stealth wars, the minstrel is albions ace up their sleeve.
Sun 20 Jan 2019 6:13 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Tillbeast wrote: ↑Sun 20 Jan 2019 5:46 PMUnfortunately a scout with no ability to self buff is the weaker of the 3 archer classes when solo. Scouts with a buff bot on original servers were easily the best archers when solo. In small stealth groups however scouts are very good especially with there shield slam to assist other melee stealthers. Not that albion needs any help in small scale stealth wars, the minstrel is albions ace up their sleeve.
If you read any of the Hunter or Ranger threads there's a lot of talk about the uselessness of the self-buffing spec lines due to the availablity of potions and charges. I don't agree with them completely but they do bring up some very good points so I will be testing a low PF Ranger myself.
If you were playing and soloing on Uthgard then I would be inclined to agree with you. However you are on Phoenix so your argument doesn't make much sense here.
That being said you should probably look at how 99% of Scouts spec. It's almost always all Archery, 42+ Shield, and shit melee. Then they complain about how their melee sucks. They also don't realize the amazing group utility of a Scout.
If they truly want to unlock the power of a Scout then they should play a Sword&Board class first (no 2hand, no dual wielding, regardless of availablity in their spec line). Learn the ins and outs of how to play with that style, THEN switch to a Scout and they will have a better handle on the class. The reason I was so successful on the Ranger for years as a Melee Ranger, then a Hybrid Ranger, then a Visi Ranger, is because I played a Merc for years as a soloer, smallman group member, ran alongside stealthers (yes with a Visi Merc), set 8mans, and in zergs. I knew EXACTLY how to play a dual wielding character in all sorts of situations. When I went to Hib the Ranger was an easy transition for me because I already had the experience with a dual wielding character. All I had to do was to add the knowledge of decent ranged capability and that's how my playstyle emerged.
So many Stealther players only know how to play one way, even if they play other classes, because they believe there's only one way to play their stealthers. Get the hell out of that pigeonhole you've been stuffed into and figure out how to expand your options with a single class.
Mon 21 Jan 2019 11:07 AM
by
Tillbeast
No idea what Uthgard was sorry. I played back on the original EA servers (Percival (Mid) and Nimue (Alb). To be honest forgot about potions so in that case there is nothing wrong with a scout on Pheonix, still the best pure archer class in game with potions buffs and with a huge shield slam if they get jumped by a melee stealthier. Hunter and ranger give few more options I guess so you have to play them different and not as a pure sniper. Also scout is far more group friendly as you say than a ranger or a hunter.
Personally think the best spec for a scout is sniper spec, high bow 42 shield and kill stuff before they run into melee. Played a 50 bow 42 scout on nimue (with buff bot off course) and nothing funnier than crit shotting a light armoured melee dps class from range, firing another few shots off as they got into melee range then shield slamming them, take two steps back and finish them off. Fair enough if the shield slam misses your screwed but every spec has its weakness. Complaining about lack of melee when you neglect melee is silly. As you said speccing sword and board style may make them better I don't know how the slower harder hitting albion bows scale with higher bow skill on a classic server but I think if you go scout you go sniper and just accept you are going to suck in melee if you can't land the stun to escape.
Not sure if sniper spec is best for hunters or rangers, on percival I had a buff bot (after rr5) so both bow and spear were high as I had no beastcraft but on Pheonix cannot see me having more than 27 bow at level 50 just for final crit shot. Never played ranger so cannot really comment on them but they look similar to hunter with slightly better melee ability but not the utility off a pet to interrupt a second caster opponent.
Personally think the best spec for a scout is sniper spec, high bow 42 shield and kill stuff before they run into melee. Played a 50 bow 42 scout on nimue (with buff bot off course) and nothing funnier than crit shotting a light armoured melee dps class from range, firing another few shots off as they got into melee range then shield slamming them, take two steps back and finish them off. Fair enough if the shield slam misses your screwed but every spec has its weakness. Complaining about lack of melee when you neglect melee is silly. As you said speccing sword and board style may make them better I don't know how the slower harder hitting albion bows scale with higher bow skill on a classic server but I think if you go scout you go sniper and just accept you are going to suck in melee if you can't land the stun to escape.
Not sure if sniper spec is best for hunters or rangers, on percival I had a buff bot (after rr5) so both bow and spear were high as I had no beastcraft but on Pheonix cannot see me having more than 27 bow at level 50 just for final crit shot. Never played ranger so cannot really comment on them but they look similar to hunter with slightly better melee ability but not the utility off a pet to interrupt a second caster opponent.
Tue 22 Jan 2019 5:49 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Tillbeast wrote: ↑Mon 21 Jan 2019 11:07 AMNo idea what Uthgard was sorry. I played back on the original EA servers (Percival (Mid) and Nimue (Alb). To be honest forgot about potions so in that case there is nothing wrong with a scout on Pheonix, still the best pure archer class in game with potions buffs and with a huge shield slam if they get jumped by a melee stealthier. Hunter and ranger give few more options I guess so you have to play them different and not as a pure sniper. Also scout is far more group friendly as you say than a ranger or a hunter.
Personally think the best spec for a scout is sniper spec, high bow 42 shield and kill stuff before they run into melee. Played a 50 bow 42 scout on nimue (with buff bot off course) and nothing funnier than crit shotting a light armoured melee dps class from range, firing another few shots off as they got into melee range then shield slamming them, take two steps back and finish them off. Fair enough if the shield slam misses your screwed but every spec has its weakness. Complaining about lack of melee when you neglect melee is silly. As you said speccing sword and board style may make them better I don't know how the slower harder hitting albion bows scale with higher bow skill on a classic server but I think if you go scout you go sniper and just accept you are going to suck in melee if you can't land the stun to escape.
Not sure if sniper spec is best for hunters or rangers, on percival I had a buff bot (after rr5) so both bow and spear were high as I had no beastcraft but on Pheonix cannot see me having more than 27 bow at level 50 just for final crit shot. Never played ranger so cannot really comment on them but they look similar to hunter with slightly better melee ability but not the utility off a pet to interrupt a second caster opponent.
Definitely not "slightly better melee". Hunter 2handed damage = Ranger dual wielding damage. Tested and confirmed.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 2:31 PM
by
MigSelv
Keep in mind that any definition of good or gimp is subjective and a personal opinion.
Play what you enjoy. 😊
Play what you enjoy. 😊
Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:14 PM
by
Kyosji
Yes. Starting off can take 10-11 seconds to do a crit shot and ~7-8 seconds for normal shots. Crits go to 8-9 seconds at around level 20,a nd normal shots take 5-6 seconds. Hear normal shots can be around 3 sec at 50, all which makes using them in RVR tough as hell. At level 20 you can barely take down an orange if you're lucky using really good arrows. Using the best crafted arrows you can take down a yellow before it reaches you, but in the end endurance is your enemy. You have to rest after each kill, making it a super slow class to level. I was bearing through it because I thought it would be a viable option for RVR or BGs, but so far I have been extremely disappointed. 1 on 1 fights, even with getting the first crit shot off, always puts you at a disadvantage because of interrupts with the insanely long draw times. I've spent 5 hours in the 20-24 battlegrounds and was never able to get a solo kill even against cloth wearers. I always got close, but with the constant interrupts it was just useless to use the bow passed the initial crit strike shot. No one usually wants you in their rvr group, mainly because i believe to do anything worth while you have to stand still for 5-10 seconds per attack, and that doens't help in a roaming zerg. Maybe it will get better at max level, but from what I'm hearing from others, not so much.
If Interrupts weren't so bad, they'd be more viable for PvP
If endurance wasn't so draining, they'd be good for PvE
As it stands now, I just don't see the point of the class.
If Interrupts weren't so bad, they'd be more viable for PvP
If endurance wasn't so draining, they'd be good for PvE
As it stands now, I just don't see the point of the class.
Fri 1 Feb 2019 4:45 PM
by
muertorix
so what is actually "the best" temp for a scout - regardless solo or group on this pathc level?first or second one?
35//45 bow
35//35 stealth
42//42 shield
40//29 weapon
35//45 bow
35//35 stealth
42//42 shield
40//29 weapon
Fri 1 Feb 2019 5:23 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Kyosji wrote: ↑Fri 1 Feb 2019 3:14 PMYes. Starting off can take 10-11 seconds to do a crit shot and ~7-8 seconds for normal shots. Crits go to 8-9 seconds at around level 20,a nd normal shots take 5-6 seconds. Hear normal shots can be around 3 sec at 50, all which makes using them in RVR tough as hell. At level 20 you can barely take down an orange if you're lucky using really good arrows. Using the best crafted arrows you can take down a yellow before it reaches you, but in the end endurance is your enemy. You have to rest after each kill, making it a super slow class to level. I was bearing through it because I thought it would be a viable option for RVR or BGs, but so far I have been extremely disappointed. 1 on 1 fights, even with getting the first crit shot off, always puts you at a disadvantage because of interrupts with the insanely long draw times. I've spent 5 hours in the 20-24 battlegrounds and was never able to get a solo kill even against cloth wearers. I always got close, but with the constant interrupts it was just useless to use the bow passed the initial crit strike shot. No one usually wants you in their rvr group, mainly because i believe to do anything worth while you have to stand still for 5-10 seconds per attack, and that doens't help in a roaming zerg. Maybe it will get better at max level, but from what I'm hearing from others, not so much.
If Interrupts weren't so bad, they'd be more viable for PvP
If endurance wasn't so draining, they'd be good for PvE
As it stands now, I just don't see the point of the class.
Vary your tactics. Use a faster bow in the battlegrounds. In RvR you have the option of using Rapid Fire.
It's also not all about just DPS. The bow is a wonderful interrupt tool itself because it outranges nearly all spells. If you're a Scout you have a good tool in the form of a Shield. Play a Shield tank at least until Thidranki (don't use 2hand, polearm, or dual wielding, just shield). Get a feel for it. Then swap back to Scout.
This topic is locked and you can't reply.
Return to Albion or the latest topics