Are support (non healer) still viable?

From reading other threads it seems that the buff pots have rendered the Pally's Endo regen and the Sorc's power regen practically useless?

I enjoyed playing a Pally on classic all the way through Labby and it was a needed class all the way, same for Sorc. Not in this server?

Note: I look at it from the PvE exping and zerging RvR perspective, no interest in 8v8.

Fri 28 Dec 2018 1:57 AM by florin

Pally has been improved with more spec points and damage and the endo chant is needed i melee groups. So good for rvr and pve.

Fri 28 Dec 2018 4:49 AM by Salviati

florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 1:57 AM
Pally has been improved with more spec points and damage and the endo chant is needed i melee groups. So good for rvr and pve.

Nonsense. Paladin is still useless. The spec points and damage are worthless and do nothing to solve the issues confronting the design flaws. The thing is, the Paladin is a beautifully designed class. It simply has the misfortune of being outmoded by things around it and the conceptual principles of other classes in the game. The chant system, while novel, is flawed. It didn't need more spec points or damage. It needs utility and a unique function which would make you choose it over an armsman or mercenary. The only reason to do that is endurance chant, which is obsolete because of endurance potions. And if you force Albion to take a paladin as it is, then you nerf Albion's effectiveness through utility in any RvR matchup. I mean, a single Pac healer and shaman has the same utility as a cleric, paladin, cabalist and sorc.

Fri 28 Dec 2018 12:19 PM by Pedro

So pretty much the newer and improved server killed one of the fun and essential classes from classic...

What power do the endo pots have? I would think that the red endo chant would be better than a potion. And having the haste chant like they did in Labby would make them more desirable I would think.

Fri 28 Dec 2018 2:16 PM by florin

Salviati wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 4:49 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 1:57 AM
Pally has been improved with more spec points and damage and the endo chant is needed i melee groups. So good for rvr and pve.

Nonsense. Paladin is still useless. The spec points and damage are worthless and do nothing to solve the issues confronting the design flaws. The thing is, the Paladin is a beautifully designed class. It simply has the misfortune of being outmoded by things around it and the conceptual principles of other classes in the game. The chant system, while novel, is flawed. It didn't need more spec points or damage. It needs utility and a unique function which would make you choose it over an armsman or mercenary. The only reason to do that is endurance chant, which is obsolete because of endurance potions. And if you force Albion to take a paladin as it is, then you nerf Albion's effectiveness through utility in any RvR matchup. I mean, a single Pac healer and shaman has the same utility as a cleric, paladin, cabalist and sorc.

Without getting into the topic of realm and class skill distribution and design, paladins have been made better. Endo pots will not be enough for a melee group.

Fri 28 Dec 2018 3:32 PM by Kralin

The potions are blue/3rd tier...correct? That's not as good as the Paladin's red endo chant or Sorc's yellow/red pom. If I'm wrong and potions are yellow/4th tier, that's still not as good as the red endo chant.

Yes you can get Tireless 1 and Long Wind 1, but using styles and sprinting constantly uses up endo so you should want as much as possible. That's why a Paladin's endo chant should still be worthwile in Alb melee groups.

Fri 28 Dec 2018 7:25 PM by Salviati

florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 2:16 PM
Salviati wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 4:49 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 1:57 AM
Pally has been improved with more spec points and damage and the endo chant is needed i melee groups. So good for rvr and pve.

Nonsense. Paladin is still useless. The spec points and damage are worthless and do nothing to solve the issues confronting the design flaws. The thing is, the Paladin is a beautifully designed class. It simply has the misfortune of being outmoded by things around it and the conceptual principles of other classes in the game. The chant system, while novel, is flawed. It didn't need more spec points or damage. It needs utility and a unique function which would make you choose it over an armsman or mercenary. The only reason to do that is endurance chant, which is obsolete because of endurance potions. And if you force Albion to take a paladin as it is, then you nerf Albion's effectiveness through utility in any RvR matchup. I mean, a single Pac healer and shaman has the same utility as a cleric, paladin, cabalist and sorc.

Without getting into the topic of realm and class skill distribution and design, paladins have been made better. Endo pots will not be enough for a melee group.

Yes. They've objectively been made better. I don't know why you're still saying that. Nobody is even arguing that. The point is, they're still useless at best, and typically detrimental to any RvR aspirations. Keep up.

Fri 28 Dec 2018 9:02 PM by florin

Salviati wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 7:25 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 2:16 PM
Salviati wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 4:49 AM
Nonsense. Paladin is still useless. The spec points and damage are worthless and do nothing to solve the issues confronting the design flaws. The thing is, the Paladin is a beautifully designed class. It simply has the misfortune of being outmoded by things around it and the conceptual principles of other classes in the game. The chant system, while novel, is flawed. It didn't need more spec points or damage. It needs utility and a unique function which would make you choose it over an armsman or mercenary. The only reason to do that is endurance chant, which is obsolete because of endurance potions. And if you force Albion to take a paladin as it is, then you nerf Albion's effectiveness through utility in any RvR matchup. I mean, a single Pac healer and shaman has the same utility as a cleric, paladin, cabalist and sorc.

Without getting into the topic of realm and class skill distribution and design, paladins have been made better. Endo pots will not be enough for a melee group.

Yes. They've objectively been made better. I don't know why you're still saying that. Nobody is even arguing that. The point is, they're still useless at best, and typically detrimental to any RvR aspirations. Keep up.

Show me on the doll where the paladin hurt you. Such a crybaby.

Fri 28 Dec 2018 9:09 PM by Zansobar

Salviati wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 7:25 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 2:16 PM
Salviati wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 4:49 AM
Nonsense. Paladin is still useless. The spec points and damage are worthless and do nothing to solve the issues confronting the design flaws. The thing is, the Paladin is a beautifully designed class. It simply has the misfortune of being outmoded by things around it and the conceptual principles of other classes in the game. The chant system, while novel, is flawed. It didn't need more spec points or damage. It needs utility and a unique function which would make you choose it over an armsman or mercenary. The only reason to do that is endurance chant, which is obsolete because of endurance potions. And if you force Albion to take a paladin as it is, then you nerf Albion's effectiveness through utility in any RvR matchup. I mean, a single Pac healer and shaman has the same utility as a cleric, paladin, cabalist and sorc.

Without getting into the topic of realm and class skill distribution and design, paladins have been made better. Endo pots will not be enough for a melee group.

Yes. They've objectively been made better. I don't know why you're still saying that. Nobody is even arguing that. The point is, they're still useless at best, and typically detrimental to any RvR aspirations. Keep up.

They aren't useless the problem is Armsmen and Merc are still better overall. I suppose if you gave Paladins stoicism that would tilt it to the Paladin's side more...but that isn't going to happen.

Sat 29 Dec 2018 2:44 AM by Salviati

florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 9:02 PM
Salviati wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 7:25 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 2:16 PM
Without getting into the topic of realm and class skill distribution and design, paladins have been made better. Endo pots will not be enough for a melee group.

Yes. They've objectively been made better. I don't know why you're still saying that. Nobody is even arguing that. The point is, they're still useless at best, and typically detrimental to any RvR aspirations. Keep up.

Show me on the doll where the paladin hurt you. Such a crybaby.

Stop trying to deflect because you can't comprehend words. Make an argument or get out of here.

Sun 30 Dec 2018 12:55 PM by florin

Salviati wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Dec 2018 2:44 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 9:02 PM
Salviati wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 7:25 PM
Yes. They've objectively been made better. I don't know why you're still saying that. Nobody is even arguing that. The point is, they're still useless at best, and typically detrimental to any RvR aspirations. Keep up.

Show me on the doll where the paladin hurt you. Such a crybaby.

Stop trying to deflect because you can't comprehend words. Make an argument or get out of here.

You’re too dense to understand Internet tough guy. Paladins are better and the game is better for it. Maybe it’s the player who is useless. It’s Tragic you dont understand what happens when an arms and Merc constantly slam, style and sprint without red endo. Capisce?

Sun 30 Dec 2018 4:27 PM by Zansobar

florin wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 12:55 PM
Salviati wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Dec 2018 2:44 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 9:02 PM
Show me on the doll where the paladin hurt you. Such a crybaby.

Stop trying to deflect because you can't comprehend words. Make an argument or get out of here.

You’re too dense to understand Internet tough guy. Paladins are better and the game is better for it. Maybe it’s the player who is useless. It’s Tragic you dont understand what happens when an arms and Merc constantly slam, style and sprint without red endo. Capisce?

With the nerf to stamina potions Longwind and Tireless Paladins may actually be necessary in Alb tank heavy RvR groups. Coupled with the increase in Paladin base damage and the additional spec points, Paladins are in a much better spot overall (oh and the ability to get 55% CC duration reduction from Determination). I just wish they would create an in game macro for twisting Paladin chants so you don't have to do that manually, then they might even be fun to play.

Sun 30 Dec 2018 7:13 PM by Pedro

Ok so they did improve them and the endo pots are only blue, that's completely different. Paladins have never been a damage power house, not even on classic, they are a utility/tank class. We all know anything labeled utility won't do a DPS similar to a class that's actually labeled DPS.

Thanks for the clarification guys!

Sun 30 Dec 2018 10:19 PM by Zansobar

Pedro wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 7:13 PM
Ok so they did improve them and the endo pots are only blue, that's completely different. Paladins have never been a damage power house, not even on classic, they are a utility/tank class. We all know anything labeled utility won't do a DPS similar to a class that's actually labeled DPS.

Thanks for the clarification guys!

They increased the base damage table on Phoenix of Paladins to 21 from 19 (a 10%+ increase in damage)...Armsman and Mercs are on 22 so only about 4% more damage with the same spec and stats. The biggest reason a two handed Paladin might not do as much damage as a two handed Arms is they cannot be Half Ogre's so will have 20 less strength at end game...but they are much much closer to the damage of a real damage melee...

Sun 30 Dec 2018 11:04 PM by jg777

I'm really excited to read about the changes to the Paladin class. I'll probably roll a Paladin as I won't have time to make multiple characters so I need a character that will be able to PvE/RvR and solo/group in both when necessary. I'll be interested to see how the modifications to the Paladin work out in practice. I definitely liked my Paladin from, well it's like eons ago *laughs*.

Mon 31 Dec 2018 3:59 AM by Salviati

florin wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 12:55 PM
Salviati wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Dec 2018 2:44 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Dec 2018 9:02 PM
Show me on the doll where the paladin hurt you. Such a crybaby.

Stop trying to deflect because you can't comprehend words. Make an argument or get out of here.

You’re too dense to understand Internet tough guy. Paladins are better and the game is better for it. Maybe it’s the player who is useless. It’s Tragic you dont understand what happens when an arms and Merc constantly slam, style and sprint without red endo. Capisce?

So making sense and acting like a human being isn't even part of your agenda. Who programmed you?

Mon 31 Dec 2018 8:42 AM by florin

Salviati wrote: ↑
Mon 31 Dec 2018 3:59 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Sun 30 Dec 2018 12:55 PM
Salviati wrote: ↑
Sat 29 Dec 2018 2:44 AM
Stop trying to deflect because you can't comprehend words. Make an argument or get out of here.

You’re too dense to understand Internet tough guy. Paladins are better and the game is better for it. Maybe it’s the player who is useless. It’s Tragic you dont understand what happens when an arms and Merc constantly slam, style and sprint without red endo. Capisce?

So making sense and acting like a human being isn't even part of your agenda. Who programmed you?

Don’t act the victim here - I didn’t start this

Mon 31 Dec 2018 8:29 PM by florin

Salviati wrote: ↑
Mon 31 Dec 2018 8:06 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 31 Dec 2018 8:42 AM
Salviati wrote: ↑
Mon 31 Dec 2018 3:59 AM
So making sense and acting like a human being isn't even part of your agenda. Who programmed you?
Don’t act the victim here - I didn’t start this

[removed]

So toxic, so much salt, I drink up your tears.

Sat 2 Feb 2019 1:25 AM by Hanshi

NO