Significantly up the timer -- its is completely ignorant as is and hits entirely too hard relative to other damages and healing --- honestly, who thought this was even a remotely good idea.
Volley
Started 14 Aug 2019
by
mattymc
in
Suggestions
Wed 14 Aug 2019 2:46 AM
by
ExcretusMaximus
It should be based on bow spec, no reason a 35 bow spec should be able to do what Volley does.
Wed 14 Aug 2019 7:08 AM
by
Glimmer
It's dmg ok, problem is with easly speccing it. Any archer can spend couple of pts to get this nice siege ra.
I would like to see this done like uthgard did.
Bow spec only at 35-40-45-50, each level got more arrows up to 6 arrows.
Consider please adding reuse timer.
Level 1 Volley 35lvl bow spec give user 3 arrows to shot, 30s re-use timer.
Level 2 Volley 40lvl bow spec give user 4 arrows to shot, 25s re-use timer.
Level 3 Volley 45lvl bow spec give user 5 arrows to shot, 20s re-use timer.
Level 4 Volley 50lvl bow spec give user 6 arrows to shot, 15s re-use timer.
I would like to see this done like uthgard did.
Bow spec only at 35-40-45-50, each level got more arrows up to 6 arrows.
Consider please adding reuse timer.
Level 1 Volley 35lvl bow spec give user 3 arrows to shot, 30s re-use timer.
Level 2 Volley 40lvl bow spec give user 4 arrows to shot, 25s re-use timer.
Level 3 Volley 45lvl bow spec give user 5 arrows to shot, 20s re-use timer.
Level 4 Volley 50lvl bow spec give user 6 arrows to shot, 15s re-use timer.
Sun 18 Aug 2019 12:25 AM
by
mattymc
Just to add to the stupidity, the bow damage against siege is greater than palintone shooting anti-siege -- How about getting this complete non-sensical situation under control?
Sun 18 Aug 2019 7:21 AM
by
Chaskha
Palintone should be anti siege (not moving target) and do big damage to siege engines.
Volley is ok (I don't play archer) but it would make sense that only the best archers would be able to do it.
3 arrows at 40
5 arrows at 45
7 arrows at 50
The timer could be 2 minutes & get reduced by a RA Volley Specialist down to 20s
Volley is ok (I don't play archer) but it would make sense that only the best archers would be able to do it.
3 arrows at 40
5 arrows at 45
7 arrows at 50
The timer could be 2 minutes & get reduced by a RA Volley Specialist down to 20s
Sun 18 Aug 2019 11:41 PM
by
mattymc
Volley is NOT OK and way OP atm. NOT to mention the stupidity of the guards who shoot thru walls, rarely can be targeted but hit you @ 100000 units -- can we pls fix the STUPID crap making even a free game painful?
Thu 22 Aug 2019 9:33 AM
by
Saldinna
Volley its to Crazy no Healer can Heal a Caster, its to fast 1200 dmg in 3-5sec ?? okay nice !
Thu 22 Aug 2019 9:43 AM
by
Saldinna
Yes but when u clear the Wall and the Healer its 1-2 seconds not in Range its to late , i think its to many Dmg sorry
Thu 22 Aug 2019 10:13 AM
by
Sepplord
Saldinna wrote: ↑Thu 22 Aug 2019 9:43 AM
Yes but when u clear the Wall and the Healer its 1-2 seconds not in Range its to late , i think its to many Dmg sorry
yes, there are situations where it can seem like that, but that requires misplays by the targets and is very RNG dpendant.
even when the caster goes completely alone (which he shouldn't) the chance to get 1200dmg in 3seconds, requires 4 50% chances to "procc" in a row. That's a 6,25% chance. And it required the caster to be in the GT range for about 8-9seconds (5seconds to load Volley, 3seconds until 4th arrow is shot, +about 0,5-1sec traveltime)
Adding the 5th arrow in, heavily increase the chances of at least 4 arrows hitting, but also gives enough time for even mediocre healers to react and cast a heal before the last arrow hits.
It's quite simple (imo):
When a squishy caster, don't patrol the ramparts alone
If you absolutely have to do it, then don't run out of healers range
If you absolutely have to go further inform your healer (alternatively take anyone else along to split dmg, shieldguards offer double protection in this scenario)
The randomness of walking into a vollyed area could be lessened by giving volley-struck areas a visual indicator for a few seconds. Maybe a realm-colored circle that pops up for 0.5seconds each time an arrow hits the respective groundtargets area.
Thu 22 Aug 2019 4:11 PM
by
mattymc
Sepplord wrote: ↑Thu 22 Aug 2019 10:13 AM
yes, there are situations where it can seem like that, but that requires misplays by the targets and is very RNG dpendant.
even when the caster goes completely alone (which he shouldn't) the chance to get 1200dmg in 3seconds, requires 4 50% chances to "procc" in a row. That's a 6,25% chance. And it required the caster to be in the GT range for about 8-9seconds (5seconds to load Volley, 3seconds until 4th arrow is shot, +about 0,5-1sec traveltime)
Adding the 5th arrow in, heavily increase the chances of at least 4 arrows hitting, but also gives enough time for even mediocre healers to react and cast a heal before the last arrow hits.
It's quite simple (imo):
When a squishy caster, don't patrol the ramparts alone
If you absolutely have to do it, then don't run out of healers range
If you absolutely have to go further inform your healer (alternatively take anyone else along to split dmg, shieldguards offer double protection in this scenario)
The randomness of walking into a vollyed area could be lessened by giving volley-struck areas a visual indicator for a few seconds. Maybe a realm-colored circle that pops up for 0.5seconds each time an arrow hits the respective groundtargets area.
The actual problem is the damage is too high, too often, easily multiply assisted upon and can be done without placing the caster <ranger/scout/hunter in this case> in harms way ... it's simply one of many stupidly OP things that can and should be easily fixed. Unless a healer is in LOS and can single target virtually no class is safe and when multiples assist, no healer can save a target. It's simply a matter of rate and availability of damage output that is out of proportion.
Sat 24 Aug 2019 10:52 PM
by
Iqupl
I did not play an archer in the true early days of DAoC, so my memory of the mechanics is not exact. I barely remember dev remarks in patch notes. Anyhow, from one of those patch notes wherein was explained a series of planned nerfs for archer classes, AJ stated that the scout had a special advantage due to an ability connected with longbow which allowed the scout to one shot even tanky classes. Again, if my memory is correct, the ability morphed into what is now called longshot, but back then it increased the draw time and shot distance, and the damage scaled up with distance. The result is that a scout could remain out of view without stealth due to distance while one shotting continually during milegate stalls.
I believe that the problem with volley is that it detoured from the intent. A proper volley would increase range, more so with height versus target, but it's accuracy and damage would be sacrificed. The volley is shot upward to cause the arrow to gain distance, so aiming is an approximation of direction and altitude. It's descent is easily deflected by a raised shield.
What I expect a proper volley RA to do is increase range, more with height versus target, but with a reduction to hit chance, damage, and this includes crit and crit chance. Actually, since crit is supposed to be tied to a character's ability to discover and execute an attack against a vulnerable spot, something lost in the way a volley shot is done, the crit should not be part of the damage.
What I see when I use volley with my archer is normal damage plus crit bonus at the normal crit rate every second unless a shot is missed, which is half or more of the five, but maybe that is because I keep using it in sparsely populated target zones.
What I perceive when others use it, like Skorpos, is 100% hit rate with 100% crit rate (logged at 49%), with me being the first one in the target zone hit by every arrow until dead.
What is your thoughts?
I believe that the problem with volley is that it detoured from the intent. A proper volley would increase range, more so with height versus target, but it's accuracy and damage would be sacrificed. The volley is shot upward to cause the arrow to gain distance, so aiming is an approximation of direction and altitude. It's descent is easily deflected by a raised shield.
What I expect a proper volley RA to do is increase range, more with height versus target, but with a reduction to hit chance, damage, and this includes crit and crit chance. Actually, since crit is supposed to be tied to a character's ability to discover and execute an attack against a vulnerable spot, something lost in the way a volley shot is done, the crit should not be part of the damage.
What I see when I use volley with my archer is normal damage plus crit bonus at the normal crit rate every second unless a shot is missed, which is half or more of the five, but maybe that is because I keep using it in sparsely populated target zones.
What I perceive when others use it, like Skorpos, is 100% hit rate with 100% crit rate (logged at 49%), with me being the first one in the target zone hit by every arrow until dead.
What is your thoughts?
Sun 25 Aug 2019 2:27 PM
by
Sepplord
Iqupl wrote: ↑Sat 24 Aug 2019 10:52 PMI did not play an archer in the true early days of DAoC, so my memory of the mechanics is not exact. I barely remember dev remarks in patch notes. Anyhow, from one of those patch notes wherein was explained a series of planned nerfs for archer classes, AJ stated that the scout had a special advantage due to an ability connected with longbow which allowed the scout to one shot even tanky classes. Again, if my memory is correct, the ability morphed into what is now called longshot, but back then it increased the draw time and shot distance, and the damage scaled up with distance. The result is that a scout could remain out of view without stealth due to distance while one shotting continually during milegate stalls.
I believe that the problem with volley is that it detoured from the intent. A proper volley would increase range, more so with height versus target, but it's accuracy and damage would be sacrificed. The volley is shot upward to cause the arrow to gain distance, so aiming is an approximation of direction and altitude. It's descent is easily deflected by a raised shield.
What I expect a proper volley RA to do is increase range, more with height versus target, but with a reduction to hit chance, damage, and this includes crit and crit chance. Actually, since crit is supposed to be tied to a character's ability to discover and execute an attack against a vulnerable spot, something lost in the way a volley shot is done, the crit should not be part of the damage.
What I see when I use volley with my archer is normal damage plus crit bonus at the normal crit rate every second unless a shot is missed, which is half or more of the five, but maybe that is because I keep using it in sparsely populated target zones.
What I perceive when others use it, like Skorpos, is 100% hit rate with 100% crit rate (logged at 49%), with me being the first one in the target zone hit by every arrow until dead.
What is your thoughts?
IT should be a 50% hitrate per arrow, and then 1/x chance to hit you specifically (where x is the number of targets in the area)...so even when you are alone in the groundtarget for all arrows, the cahnce of all 5 arrows hitting you is only ~3%. If you are regularly hit by 5consecurtive volleyshots from a single archer then maybe there is something wrong with the targetting/hit-rolls. If there is a calculation error i could understand the uproar about it. But that should also be easy to show, since it would happen very often. Get us a few screenshots
(being hit by all 5 arrows and those critting should be less than 0.09% chance)
Mon 2 Sep 2019 6:03 PM
by
Makrist
How dare someone challenge the supremacy of casters in this game. Casters should be free to wander walls and parapets at will while debuff nuking people to death. Clearly the only thing these casters should fear is other casters.
Rangers, Hunters, and even moreso than those two Scouts...only bring one or two things to siege. Rapidfire is ok, but will only kill a fool, and is easily countered. The other is volley. As far as 35 spec being too powerful that is hilarious. Archers have been waiting for a reason to go above 35 in their archery line. I guess the only way to fix a broken class is by nerfing it? Right now to go from 35 to 50 bow nets me approximately 20 damage per shot increase. This is almost as useful as a minstrel going from 35 to 50 spec stealth.
If you would like to truly exclude all stealth classes from keep siege and ensure obnoxious stealth groups are the flavor of the month...please. nerf Volley. Then these complaints about archers can move down a thread or two to the stealth whine thread.
Rangers, Hunters, and even moreso than those two Scouts...only bring one or two things to siege. Rapidfire is ok, but will only kill a fool, and is easily countered. The other is volley. As far as 35 spec being too powerful that is hilarious. Archers have been waiting for a reason to go above 35 in their archery line. I guess the only way to fix a broken class is by nerfing it? Right now to go from 35 to 50 bow nets me approximately 20 damage per shot increase. This is almost as useful as a minstrel going from 35 to 50 spec stealth.
If you would like to truly exclude all stealth classes from keep siege and ensure obnoxious stealth groups are the flavor of the month...please. nerf Volley. Then these complaints about archers can move down a thread or two to the stealth whine thread.
Mon 2 Sep 2019 7:21 PM
by
mattymc
Makrist wrote: ↑Mon 2 Sep 2019 6:03 PMHow dare someone challenge the supremacy of casters in this game. Casters should be free to wander walls and parapets at will while debuff nuking people to death. Clearly the only thing these casters should fear is other casters.
Rangers, Hunters, and even moreso than those two Scouts...only bring one or two things to siege. Rapidfire is ok, but will only kill a fool, and is easily countered. The other is volley. As far as 35 spec being too powerful that is hilarious. Archers have been waiting for a reason to go above 35 in their archery line. I guess the only way to fix a broken class is by nerfing it? Right now to go from 35 to 50 bow nets me approximately 20 damage per shot increase. This is almost as useful as a minstrel going from 35 to 50 spec stealth.
If you would like to truly exclude all stealth classes from keep siege and ensure obnoxious stealth groups are the flavor of the month...please. nerf Volley. Then these complaints about archers can move down a thread or two to the stealth whine thread.
One does not need an OP ability <as its currently constructed> to be useful .... who else can kill w/o exposing themselves at all? Stealth classes are near impossible to balance, granted, but volley, as currently constructed, should be changed. Lot's are bored during siege's --- what makes Archery classes so special??
Mon 2 Sep 2019 8:12 PM
by
gotwqqd
Any class with a petmattymc wrote: ↑Mon 2 Sep 2019 7:21 PMMakrist wrote: ↑Mon 2 Sep 2019 6:03 PMHow dare someone challenge the supremacy of casters in this game. Casters should be free to wander walls and parapets at will while debuff nuking people to death. Clearly the only thing these casters should fear is other casters.
Rangers, Hunters, and even moreso than those two Scouts...only bring one or two things to siege. Rapidfire is ok, but will only kill a fool, and is easily countered. The other is volley. As far as 35 spec being too powerful that is hilarious. Archers have been waiting for a reason to go above 35 in their archery line. I guess the only way to fix a broken class is by nerfing it? Right now to go from 35 to 50 bow nets me approximately 20 damage per shot increase. This is almost as useful as a minstrel going from 35 to 50 spec stealth.
If you would like to truly exclude all stealth classes from keep siege and ensure obnoxious stealth groups are the flavor of the month...please. nerf Volley. Then these complaints about archers can move down a thread or two to the stealth whine thread.
One does not need an OP ability <as its currently constructed> to be useful .... who else can kill w/o exposing themselves at all? Stealth classes are near impossible to balance, granted, but volley, as currently constructed, should be changed. Lot's are bored during siege's --- what makes Archery classes so special??
Mon 2 Sep 2019 8:43 PM
by
Makrist
mattymc wrote: ↑Mon 2 Sep 2019 7:21 PMMakrist wrote: ↑Mon 2 Sep 2019 6:03 PMOne does not need an OP ability <as its currently constructed> to be useful .... who else can kill w/o exposing themselves at all? Stealth classes are near impossible to balance, granted, but volley, as currently constructed, should be changed. Lot's are bored during siege's --- what makes Archery classes so special??
I love the complaints about an ability rendered useless by just staying indoors.
Want to know who else poses a threat to an archer in keep siege? Other archers with volley which based on my experience at least Hib has a ton of. Also depending on situations assassins. Since 98% of the DAoC community doesnt have the capacity to think outside the box and they treat assassins like trash i guess that leaves other archers. The fact is my scout excels at two things. I can interrupt any healer from almost bolt range and keep them from healing until they retreat out of range in open field, and i can volley. Certain situations i can act as a peeler against melee until i get 4 shotted by a debuffed baseline nuke (totally balanced) but not well and often at the expense of my own life. Fact is I didnt choose this meta for the class, but its all i have in a toolbox. I have crap melee capabilities thanks to a mediocre damage table, and a small shield that while useful at times rarely ever makes up for my mediocre capabilities in every other area. Im not a fan of ganking greys and blues in xp spots as im not a skald, and i hate the so called "stealth war".
Every melee class with a shield spec of 7 can make my archery skills obsolete. Again, if you want to ensure all us scouts have nothing left but zerg up with three infiltrators and a couple minstrels to haunt your docks and posterns 24/7...go ahead.
Mon 2 Sep 2019 9:16 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Makrist wrote: ↑Mon 2 Sep 2019 8:43 PMmattymc wrote: ↑Mon 2 Sep 2019 7:21 PMMakrist wrote: ↑Mon 2 Sep 2019 6:03 PMOne does not need an OP ability <as its currently constructed> to be useful .... who else can kill w/o exposing themselves at all? Stealth classes are near impossible to balance, granted, but volley, as currently constructed, should be changed. Lot's are bored during siege's --- what makes Archery classes so special??
I love the complaints about an ability rendered useless by just staying indoors.
Want to know who else poses a threat to an archer in keep siege? Other archers with volley which based on my experience at least Hib has a ton of. Also depending on situations assassins. Since 98% of the DAoC community doesnt have the capacity to think outside the box and they treat assassins like trash i guess that leaves other archers. The fact is my scout excels at two things. I can interrupt any healer from almost bolt range and keep them from healing until they retreat out of range in open field, and i can volley. Certain situations i can act as a peeler against melee until i get 4 shotted by a debuffed baseline nuke (totally balanced) but not well and often at the expense of my own life. Fact is I didnt choose this meta for the class, but its all i have in a toolbox. I have crap melee capabilities thanks to a mediocre damage table, and a small shield that while useful at times rarely ever makes up for my mediocre capabilities in every other area. Im not a fan of ganking greys and blues in xp spots as im not a skald, and i hate the so called "stealth war".
Every melee class with a shield spec of 7 can make my archery skills obsolete. Again, if you want to ensure all us scouts have nothing left but zerg up with three infiltrators and a couple minstrels to haunt your docks and posterns 24/7...go ahead.
Decent dex and an unspecced Shield can ruin an Archer's day.
Tue 3 Sep 2019 11:10 PM
by
mattymc
I love the complaints about an ability rendered useless by just staying indoors.
Brilliant!!! -- because one can stay hidden while sieging .... 'nuff said
The rest --- doesn't change the fact that any offensive capability that can be fired with impunity from complete safety is IDIOTIC
Brilliant!!! -- because one can stay hidden while sieging .... 'nuff said
The rest --- doesn't change the fact that any offensive capability that can be fired with impunity from complete safety is IDIOTIC
Wed 4 Sep 2019 12:11 AM
by
Cadebrennus
mattymc wrote: ↑Tue 3 Sep 2019 11:10 PMI love the complaints about an ability rendered useless by just staying indoors.
Brilliant!!! -- because one can stay hidden while sieging .... 'nuff said
The rest --- doesn't change the fact that any offensive capability that can be fired with impunity from complete safety is IDIOTIC
You can...... Volley..... right back at them....
Wed 4 Sep 2019 4:08 AM
by
Makrist
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Wed 4 Sep 2019 12:11 AMmattymc wrote: ↑Tue 3 Sep 2019 11:10 PMI love the complaints about an ability rendered useless by just staying indoors.
Brilliant!!! -- because one can stay hidden while sieging .... 'nuff said
The rest --- doesn't change the fact that any offensive capability that can be fired with impunity from complete safety is IDIOTIC
You can...... Volley..... right back at them....
My point is move. Stationary targets are often dead ones. I figured this was RvR 101 but here we are explaining it.
As far as fighting back...the worst day i had as a scout in siege was when an SB was spotting for their archers. We eventually found him, but i wasnt safe anywhere while he was setting me up. Too bad the population ran off most assassins from seige scenarios...right? Not only that but defending archers almost always have the high ground which means their ground targets are often more accurate. Volley does massive damage to siege and assisting archers can devastate a ram or cat. Firing at the roof of a keep, walls, or a tower roof is literally best guess. Which is why nothing makes me laugh harder then seeing the same name pop up volley after volley in the same spot. Soaking up their healers power bar with stupidity. It means they are either afk during a siege or too dumb to move.. The real problem is lazy players that lack imagination so they require game mechanic changes to satisfy their needs.
Wed 4 Sep 2019 2:36 PM
by
mattymc
Makrist wrote: ↑Wed 4 Sep 2019 4:08 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Wed 4 Sep 2019 12:11 AMmattymc wrote: ↑Tue 3 Sep 2019 11:10 PMI love the complaints about an ability rendered useless by just staying indoors.
Brilliant!!! -- because one can stay hidden while sieging .... 'nuff said
The rest --- doesn't change the fact that any offensive capability that can be fired with impunity from complete safety is IDIOTIC
You can...... Volley..... right back at them....
My point is move. Stationary targets are often dead ones. I figured this was RvR 101 but here we are explaining it.
As far as fighting back...the worst day i had as a scout in siege was when an SB was spotting for their archers. We eventually found him, but i wasnt safe anywhere while he was setting me up. Too bad the population ran off most assassins from seige scenarios...right? Not only that but defending archers almost always have the high ground which means their ground targets are often more accurate. Volley does massive damage to siege and assisting archers can devastate a ram or cat. Firing at the roof of a keep, walls, or a tower roof is literally best guess. Which is why nothing makes me laugh harder then seeing the same name pop up volley after volley in the same spot. Soaking up their healers power bar with stupidity. It means they are either afk during a siege or too dumb to move.. The real problem is lazy players that lack imagination so they require game mechanic changes to satisfy their needs.
If your point is move -- then say move; not the silly thing you said before ---- regardless, volley as constructed is still ignorant; the fact it took several to make an attempt to silence you is more to the point --- being able to do anything w/o risk makes no sense....simply change it back to the way it is on live --- they certainly made a lot of live mistakes -- volley <on live> isn't one of them.
Wed 4 Sep 2019 3:07 PM
by
Cadebrennus
mattymc wrote: ↑Wed 4 Sep 2019 2:36 PMMakrist wrote: ↑Wed 4 Sep 2019 4:08 AM
My point is move. Stationary targets are often dead ones. I figured this was RvR 101 but here we are explaining it.
As far as fighting back...the worst day i had as a scout in siege was when an SB was spotting for their archers. We eventually found him, but i wasnt safe anywhere while he was setting me up. Too bad the population ran off most assassins from seige scenarios...right? Not only that but defending archers almost always have the high ground which means their ground targets are often more accurate. Volley does massive damage to siege and assisting archers can devastate a ram or cat. Firing at the roof of a keep, walls, or a tower roof is literally best guess. Which is why nothing makes me laugh harder then seeing the same name pop up volley after volley in the same spot. Soaking up their healers power bar with stupidity. It means they are either afk during a siege or too dumb to move.. The real problem is lazy players that lack imagination so they require game mechanic changes to satisfy their needs.
If your point is move -- then say move; not the silly thing you said before ---- regardless, volley as constructed is still ignorant; the fact it took several to make an attempt to silence you is more to the point --- being able to do anything w/o risk makes no sense....simply change it back to the way it is on live --- they certainly made a lot of live mistakes -- volley <on live> isn't one of them.
I suppose that you're referring to Volley being so bad that most Archers didn't bother putting it on their hotbar. Gotcha. We see your agenda now.
Wed 4 Sep 2019 11:17 PM
by
Makrist
mattymc wrote: ↑Wed 4 Sep 2019 2:36 PMMakrist wrote: ↑Wed 4 Sep 2019 4:08 AM
My point is move. Stationary targets are often dead ones. I figured this was RvR 101 but here we are explaining it.
As far as fighting back...the worst day i had as a scout in siege was when an SB was spotting for their archers. We eventually found him, but i wasnt safe anywhere while he was setting me up. Too bad the population ran off most assassins from seige scenarios...right? Not only that but defending archers almost always have the high ground which means their ground targets are often more accurate. Volley does massive damage to siege and assisting archers can devastate a ram or cat. Firing at the roof of a keep, walls, or a tower roof is literally best guess. Which is why nothing makes me laugh harder then seeing the same name pop up volley after volley in the same spot. Soaking up their healers power bar with stupidity. It means they are either afk during a siege or too dumb to move.. The real problem is lazy players that lack imagination so they require game mechanic changes to satisfy their needs.
If your point is move -- then say move; not the silly thing you said before ---- regardless, volley as constructed is still ignorant; the fact it took several to make an attempt to silence you is more to the point --- being able to do anything w/o risk makes no sense....simply change it back to the way it is on live --- they certainly made a lot of live mistakes -- volley <on live> isn't one of them.
Yeah, so im not going to be responsible for the ability of the playerbase being able to decipher the strenghts or weaknesses of certain abilities. Plenty understood the context as it applies to volley. Once again...if you are in range of my volley i am in range of your archers as well, and with a spotter its devastating. I dont have significantly more HP than a caster and often significantly less than a hybrid. When you consider archers in their current state are often shunned from groups and we spend 50% of our time solo even in the BG i really dont feel bad about your inability to adapt. Perhaps some players should seek a game time tested that doesnt evolve....Candyland perhaps.
Thu 5 Sep 2019 1:01 AM
by
gotwqqd
That’s such a nonsense stance.... “without any risk”mattymc wrote: ↑Wed 4 Sep 2019 2:36 PMMakrist wrote: ↑Wed 4 Sep 2019 4:08 AM
My point is move. Stationary targets are often dead ones. I figured this was RvR 101 but here we are explaining it.
As far as fighting back...the worst day i had as a scout in siege was when an SB was spotting for their archers. We eventually found him, but i wasnt safe anywhere while he was setting me up. Too bad the population ran off most assassins from seige scenarios...right? Not only that but defending archers almost always have the high ground which means their ground targets are often more accurate. Volley does massive damage to siege and assisting archers can devastate a ram or cat. Firing at the roof of a keep, walls, or a tower roof is literally best guess. Which is why nothing makes me laugh harder then seeing the same name pop up volley after volley in the same spot. Soaking up their healers power bar with stupidity. It means they are either afk during a siege or too dumb to move.. The real problem is lazy players that lack imagination so they require game mechanic changes to satisfy their needs.
If your point is move -- then say move; not the silly thing you said before ---- regardless, volley as constructed is still ignorant; the fact it took several to make an attempt to silence you is more to the point --- being able to do anything w/o risk makes no sense....simply change it back to the way it is on live --- they certainly made a lot of live mistakes -- volley <on live> isn't one of them.
You could say this about numerous actions in the game
Thu 5 Sep 2019 2:44 PM
by
mattymc
gotwqqd wrote: ↑Thu 5 Sep 2019 1:01 AMThat’s such a nonsense stance.... “without any risk”mattymc wrote: ↑Wed 4 Sep 2019 2:36 PMMakrist wrote: ↑Wed 4 Sep 2019 4:08 AMMy point is move. Stationary targets are often dead ones. I figured this was RvR 101 but here we are explaining it.
As far as fighting back...the worst day i had as a scout in siege was when an SB was spotting for their archers. We eventually found him, but i wasnt safe anywhere while he was setting me up. Too bad the population ran off most assassins from seige scenarios...right? Not only that but defending archers almost always have the high ground which means their ground targets are often more accurate. Volley does massive damage to siege and assisting archers can devastate a ram or cat. Firing at the roof of a keep, walls, or a tower roof is literally best guess. Which is why nothing makes me laugh harder then seeing the same name pop up volley after volley in the same spot. Soaking up their healers power bar with stupidity. It means they are either afk during a siege or too dumb to move.. The real problem is lazy players that lack imagination so they require game mechanic changes to satisfy their needs.
If your point is move -- then say move; not the silly thing you said before ---- regardless, volley as constructed is still ignorant; the fact it took several to make an attempt to silence you is more to the point --- being able to do anything w/o risk makes no sense....simply change it back to the way it is on live --- they certainly made a lot of live mistakes -- volley <on live> isn't one of them.
You could say this about numerous actions in the game
As in????
Thu 5 Sep 2019 3:11 PM
by
Horus
I think the real issue is that gtaoe siege is unfairly cheap and easy. I spend spec points and ra points to get an ability to GTAOE dmg that anyone else can just purchase something similar for a few gold and deploy.
When do I get to buy AE Mezz charges? AE DoT charges? Speed 6 Charges? AE Stun charges? TWF field charges? Savage multi hit charges? Pet summon charges?
Archers have one nice specific RA and you allow everyone else to have something that is quite similar for a few gold.
If anything, Volley should be more powerful.
When do I get to buy AE Mezz charges? AE DoT charges? Speed 6 Charges? AE Stun charges? TWF field charges? Savage multi hit charges? Pet summon charges?
Archers have one nice specific RA and you allow everyone else to have something that is quite similar for a few gold.
If anything, Volley should be more powerful.
Thu 5 Sep 2019 5:57 PM
by
Cadebrennus
.Horus wrote: ↑Thu 5 Sep 2019 3:11 PMI think the real issue is that gtaoe siege is unfairly cheap and easy. I spend spec points and ra points to get an ability to GTAOE dmg that anyone else can just purchase something similar for a few gold and deploy.
When do I get to buy AE Mezz charges? AE DoT charges? Speed 6 Charges? AE Stun charges? TWF field charges? Savage multi hit charges? Pet summon charges?
Archers have one nice specific RA and you allow everyone else to have something that is quite similar for a few gold.
If anything, Volley should be more powerful.
.
Fri 6 Sep 2019 5:16 PM
by
mattymc
Horus wrote: ↑Thu 5 Sep 2019 3:11 PMI think the real issue is that gtaoe siege is unfairly cheap and easy. I spend spec points and ra points to get an ability to GTAOE dmg that anyone else can just purchase something similar for a few gold and deploy.
When do I get to buy AE Mezz charges? AE DoT charges? Speed 6 Charges? AE Stun charges? TWF field charges? Savage multi hit charges? Pet summon charges?
Archers have one nice specific RA and you allow everyone else to have something that is quite similar for a few gold.
If anything, Volley should be more powerful.
If you had to stand in the open, away from any cover as one needs to do with a Cat or a Pali, I'd say your point was valid...you don't and it's not...
Sat 7 Sep 2019 6:35 PM
by
easytoremember
no los no target
no target no idea where the fuck the arrows are coming from (regarding spam from cy or from behind obstructions)
Sat 7 Sep 2019 6:45 PM
by
Makrist
If only there were some way for someone to find them. If only someone had the ability to...ah..whats the word...sneak? No, hide...er...stealth. if only someone could stealth in order to scout the location of the enemies. We could call them ..uh..Shadows or Shades? Anyway...they could Infiltrate right? And then you could assist off their ground target to return volley.
Nah...your right...its hopeless. Nothing like that exists in 8man, BG, or keep siege RvR.
Sat 7 Sep 2019 6:48 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Damn. If only "last enemy" and /face existed in this game..... if only....
Sat 7 Sep 2019 8:03 PM
by
easytoremember
Right I forgot archers can climb wall dumbshits
'J-just get your shade buddies to do it for you!' comes back to volley from the courtyard being OP
LT doesn't work without lis, assist doesn't work without los
Why are you two idiots responding like you refuted anything?
Edit: I'll also add that they're (the volleying archer) not bound to one place so long as they remain in range, they can spam from whereever they like inside cy. Preventing them from spamming ram, cata, and hotspots (front of GT door for example) is impossible
'J-just get your shade buddies to do it for you!' comes back to volley from the courtyard being OP
LT doesn't work without lis, assist doesn't work without los
Why are you two idiots responding like you refuted anything?
Edit: I'll also add that they're (the volleying archer) not bound to one place so long as they remain in range, they can spam from whereever they like inside cy. Preventing them from spamming ram, cata, and hotspots (front of GT door for example) is impossible
Sat 7 Sep 2019 10:38 PM
by
Makrist
easytoremember wrote: ↑Sat 7 Sep 2019 8:03 PMRight I forgot archers can climb wall dumbshits
'J-just get your shade buddies to do it for you!' comes back to volley from the courtyard being OP
LT doesn't work without lis, assist doesn't work without los
Why are you two idiots responding like you refuted anything?
Edit: I'll also add that they're (the volleying archer) not bound to one place so long as they remain in range, they can spam from whereever they like inside cy. Preventing them from spamming ram, cata, and hotspots (front of GT door for example) is impossible
At this point you should just give your address so someone can come click your mouse and hit the keys for you.
Of course archers cant climb walls, but do you really need me to give you the list of 8 classes in game that can? Should i also explain the mechanics of the ground assist command since its what volly requires instead of normal assist? Spoiler...it doesnt require LOS. I would also point out volley has minimum range and maximum range limitations. If you need me to explain the significance of that as well....honestly, i wont. I'm over your inability to evolve to "new" tactics that have been around for almost 20 years. I'm fairly certain the Devs wont alter the mechanics of this to accommodate someone who probably wears velcro sneakers because those pesky knots are too difficult.
Sat 7 Sep 2019 10:56 PM
by
easytoremember
I'm aware, and luckily inside the text you quoted, I said the volley users freely move around- assisted GT is pointless against themMakrist wrote: ↑Sat 7 Sep 2019 10:38 PMShould i also explain the mechanics of the ground assist command since its what volly requires instead of normal assist? Spoiler...it doesnt require LOS.
Sat 7 Sep 2019 11:35 PM
by
Cadebrennus
.Makrist wrote: ↑Sat 7 Sep 2019 10:38 PMeasytoremember wrote: ↑Sat 7 Sep 2019 8:03 PMRight I forgot archers can climb wall dumbshits
'J-just get your shade buddies to do it for you!' comes back to volley from the courtyard being OP
LT doesn't work without lis, assist doesn't work without los
Why are you two idiots responding like you refuted anything?
Edit: I'll also add that they're (the volleying archer) not bound to one place so long as they remain in range, they can spam from whereever they like inside cy. Preventing them from spamming ram, cata, and hotspots (front of GT door for example) is impossible
At this point you should just give your address so someone can come click your mouse and hit the keys for you.
Of course archers cant climb walls, but do you really need me to give you the list of 8 classes in game that can? Should i also explain the mechanics of the ground assist command since its what volly requires instead of normal assist? Spoiler...it doesnt require LOS. I would also point out volley has minimum range and maximum range limitations. If you need me to explain the significance of that as well....honestly, i wont. I'm over your inability to evolve to "new" tactics that have been around for almost 20 years. I'm fairly certain the Devs wont alter the mechanics of this to accommodate someone who probably wears velcro sneakers because those pesky knots are too difficult.
.
This is how he (and many others like him) expect to play and yet still win....
.
.
.
Sun 8 Sep 2019 12:10 AM
by
carlwinslow
Lol because setting a GT with the safety of your zerg makes you skilled right?
Sun 8 Sep 2019 1:35 AM
by
Makrist
carlwinslow wrote: ↑Sun 8 Sep 2019 12:10 AMLol because setting a GT with the safety of your zerg makes you skilled right?
Nothing keeps me safe now that "caster ranged melee range" was put into the game. Now we are all going to die to 1500 unit range garrotes....the horror....
Sun 8 Sep 2019 1:38 AM
by
carlwinslow
Okay I get it you like broken cheese mechanics, very skilled player you are to enjoy the busted melee range, teach me the ways great sensei, teach me how to be great like you.
Sun 8 Sep 2019 1:45 AM
by
Makrist
carlwinslow wrote: ↑Sun 8 Sep 2019 1:38 AMOkay I get it you like broken cheese mechanics, very skilled player you are to enjoy the busted melee range, teach me the ways great sensei, teach me how to be great like you.
No way LOL...i like you just the way you are. Its entertaining.
Sun 8 Sep 2019 1:48 AM
by
carlwinslow
Imagine getting into an argument with someone and then taking the side of some broken cheesy mechanics, like I said how bad do you have to be to praise that, what's wrong you can't actually get up next to your enemy? You have to be able to hit them from 15 feet away to succeed? So great you are at this game, truly one of the best among us!
Sun 8 Sep 2019 2:04 AM
by
Makrist
Look man, if i thought you were actually looking for advice on how to deal with assassins I would help. All that goes out the window when you start asking for a coding adjustment to reduce their melee range when compared to other classes. Number one it's completely illogical since every melee range is the same, and IF you were to argue there should be a difference it would logically be dictated by the weapon choice not the class such as a Polearm has a longer reach than a dirk. Nope...that wasn't your solution...you died because you were melee snared and your solution was to nerf through coding the class that killed you. There is nothing about this argument that should be taken seriously. I've played this game since the day it was released and i've played on every version of a freeshard I could find (so far this one makes 3). Melee range is standard across all classes, and the fact you pick one class that killed you to suggest a nerf to it instead of...well...all melee classes shows you to be what you are. Someone that died in an RvR zone when you thought you should have won.
Your type of player is why WoW had to go back to classic to keep people interested. The developers spend so much time catering to the lowest common denominator just to keep your subscription fees that the game turns to crap. They water down abilities and change mechanics to satisfy lazy and inept players that can't handle disappointment just to keep them logging in. Freeshards are often built and managed out of a passion for the game as it was at some period of time in the past. I've said it before...I would rather play on a server with four people that love it instead of with 300 people like you that just can't handle life.
This same logic, or lack thereof, is exactly what you bring to the volley discussion. You died...so a nerf is necessary.
If you want pointers from veterans...ask....otherwise for crying out loud...grow up.
Your type of player is why WoW had to go back to classic to keep people interested. The developers spend so much time catering to the lowest common denominator just to keep your subscription fees that the game turns to crap. They water down abilities and change mechanics to satisfy lazy and inept players that can't handle disappointment just to keep them logging in. Freeshards are often built and managed out of a passion for the game as it was at some period of time in the past. I've said it before...I would rather play on a server with four people that love it instead of with 300 people like you that just can't handle life.
This same logic, or lack thereof, is exactly what you bring to the volley discussion. You died...so a nerf is necessary.
If you want pointers from veterans...ask....otherwise for crying out loud...grow up.
Sun 8 Sep 2019 2:09 AM
by
carlwinslow
Okay Valfor.
Sun 8 Sep 2019 6:35 PM
by
easytoremember
Yet here you are instead of uthMakrist wrote: ↑Sun 8 Sep 2019 2:04 AMYour type of player is why WoW had to go back to classic to keep people interested. The developers spend so much time catering to the lowest common denominator just to keep your subscription fees that the game turns to crap. They water down abilities and change mechanics to satisfy lazy and inept players that can't handle disappointment just to keep them logging in. Freeshards are often built and managed out of a passion for the game as it was at some period of time in the past. I've said it before...I would rather play on a server with four people that love it instead of with 300 people like you that just can't handle life.
You can hide behind the guise of QOL it's just dumbed down and lazy
That's a very roundabout self loathing you got LOL
Accidently walking into a volleyspammed spot (2+) is instadeath even for some noncloth, with no indication that there is even something up with the given volume, by targets immune to retaliation (courtyard)
Normally to clean the walls you use catapults, and by cleaning the walls you can at least chase volleyspammers into ck or hulling up under a wall, but volleyspammers are wiping the catapult users from the start, again from a safe haven
It happened over and over during attempts on Dun Alliane
Sending sneaks or visibles over the wall gets them gibbed by guards and defenders before they can think about killing, much less touching the volleyusers
But what of GT spells and siege in general you ask? GT spells can be casted from complete safety sure, but they lack both the damage and duration of Volley, and at less range
Catapults? The same lack of damage and duration, and they're immobile
Treb? Only 1 exists at a given keep sometimes in spots that can be targeted from outside
You make jabs of wanting to only faceroll your keyboard to win yet set GT and mash volley is ok? I'll say to clarify, the problem is a combination of their being untouchable, their range, and that it is over a duration as opposed to a single instant event, tweaking one or the other can resolve it without nerfing it to nothing.
The next comparable ability is VP for unruptable big damage at big range and possible assist, but both the RuT and the damage falloff from main target prevent it being OP
"but volley is ruptable retard" ofc it's ruptable, just not when you're hidden away inside closed keep with guards at your ass and defenders sitting on the walls
My final point is do you think volley users from the siege side are going to waste their precious leeching RA trying to fish around CY for spread archers? nope They're hungry for clumps of clothies or healers which is a given but point being the hypothetical check for volleyspamming from CY doesn't happen and is ineffective when seldomly attempted... putting aside that using GT, blind or assisted, on mobile targets free from the constraint of needing LOS is a laughable endeavor
Sun 8 Sep 2019 8:18 PM
by
Cadebrennus
.Makrist wrote: ↑Sun 8 Sep 2019 2:04 AMLook man, if i thought you were actually looking for advice on how to deal with assassins I would help. All that goes out the window when you start asking for a coding adjustment to reduce their melee range when compared to other classes. Number one it's completely illogical since every melee range is the same, and IF you were to argue there should be a difference it would logically be dictated by the weapon choice not the class such as a Polearm has a longer reach than a dirk. Nope...that wasn't your solution...you died because you were melee snared and your solution was to nerf through coding the class that killed you. There is nothing about this argument that should be taken seriously. I've played this game since the day it was released and i've played on every version of a freeshard I could find (so far this one makes 3). Melee range is standard across all classes, and the fact you pick one class that killed you to suggest a nerf to it instead of...well...all melee classes shows you to be what you are. Someone that died in an RvR zone when you thought you should have won.
Your type of player is why WoW had to go back to classic to keep people interested. The developers spend so much time catering to the lowest common denominator just to keep your subscription fees that the game turns to crap. They water down abilities and change mechanics to satisfy lazy and inept players that can't handle disappointment just to keep them logging in. Freeshards are often built and managed out of a passion for the game as it was at some period of time in the past. I've said it before...I would rather play on a server with four people that love it instead of with 300 people like you that just can't handle life.
This same logic, or lack thereof, is exactly what you bring to the volley discussion. You died...so a nerf is necessary.
If you want pointers from veterans...ask....otherwise for crying out loud...grow up.
.
.
.
Sun 8 Sep 2019 8:20 PM
by
Cadebrennus
carlwinslow wrote: ↑Sun 8 Sep 2019 1:48 AMImagine getting into an argument with someone and then taking the side of some broken cheesy mechanics, like I said how bad do you have to be to praise that, what's wrong you can't actually get up next to your enemy? You have to be able to hit them from 15 feet away to succeed? So great you are at this game, truly one of the best among us!
If you have a problem with the mechanics then just leave the game. I played ESO for the PvP and I thought the mechanics were lame. Rotate through your abilities regardless of the situation/what your opponent is doing/your position/your distance/etc. It was mind-numbingly boring and predictable. It sounds like just the game for you.
Mon 9 Sep 2019 7:50 AM
by
Sepplord
easytoremember wrote: ↑Sun 8 Sep 2019 6:35 PMMy final point is do you think volley users from the siege side are going to waste their precious leeching RA trying to fish around CY for spread archers? nope They're hungry for clumps of clothies or healers which is a given but point being the hypothetical check for volleyspamming from CY doesn't happen and is ineffective when seldomly attempted... putting aside that using GT, blind or assisted, on mobile targets free from the constraint of needing LOS is a laughable endeavor
Volleying CLUMPS? Really? Because clumping is ironically a defense against volley. If your catapult is being volleyd, then let a few people stand there instead of letting a solo die to volley. Volleys consist of single arrows that hit a single target randomly within the area (if they hit at all).
The last thing a vollying archers wants to have around his GT are clumps of targets, because then his volleys become meaningless
you talk about coordinated BG efforts to setup catapults but yet them getting instantly wiped out by volley....could you elaborate on what exactly was happening at ailienne multiple times? Because it really doesn't sound like a bunch of shield-guarded people setting up a siege weapon under enemy fire while getting healed. But more like a random stray solo person wandering away from their zerg and bulding a catapult just by himself and then getting shot.
Mon 9 Sep 2019 4:35 PM
by
easytoremember
Yes, clumps
Similar to chain lightning it's strongest when you're hitting 2 targets and normally up to 4 people are standing huddled at spots at gate and tower corners
Alliane we had row(s) of catapults trying to keep the wall saturated but always volleyspam forcing them to back off in the cases where their hp doesnt drop to crawling speed before they get away. Enemy casters would encoach and start nuking by which point rangers move to wall to place GT in realtime. Try to approach the area it's rupt if not instant death from volley alone. With that particular case it was a 4 or 5 rangers spamming GT's near one another and is where my complaint stems from- there is no way to retaliate against that shit between their being out of LOS and their range. Because of volley and volley alone we were not only unable to manage the walls but even take up a perimeter just outside 1500.
After the portion of the BG harrasing walls got pushed back they wiped ram driver with again instant death who during all attempts was a pala, treb wasn't even up nor oil, no guards up or casters nuking from the U around the gate, not even GTaoE
During the next few raids there was always that guild group with the rr12 showing up to assisttrain and even then it was volley preventing clothies from getting into range to do anything about them. Occasional sorc mez (on the guildgroup) sure but pointless without anyone able to move into range and use it, along with demez between their bards
Most raids played out with volley letting defenders run amok
Successes occurred when hib was asleep
Similar to chain lightning it's strongest when you're hitting 2 targets and normally up to 4 people are standing huddled at spots at gate and tower corners
Alliane we had row(s) of catapults trying to keep the wall saturated but always volleyspam forcing them to back off in the cases where their hp doesnt drop to crawling speed before they get away. Enemy casters would encoach and start nuking by which point rangers move to wall to place GT in realtime. Try to approach the area it's rupt if not instant death from volley alone. With that particular case it was a 4 or 5 rangers spamming GT's near one another and is where my complaint stems from- there is no way to retaliate against that shit between their being out of LOS and their range. Because of volley and volley alone we were not only unable to manage the walls but even take up a perimeter just outside 1500.
After the portion of the BG harrasing walls got pushed back they wiped ram driver with again instant death who during all attempts was a pala, treb wasn't even up nor oil, no guards up or casters nuking from the U around the gate, not even GTaoE
During the next few raids there was always that guild group with the rr12 showing up to assisttrain and even then it was volley preventing clothies from getting into range to do anything about them. Occasional sorc mez (on the guildgroup) sure but pointless without anyone able to move into range and use it, along with demez between their bards
Most raids played out with volley letting defenders run amok
Successes occurred when hib was asleep
Mon 9 Sep 2019 5:20 PM
by
Sepplord
easytoremember wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 4:35 PMYes, clumps
Similar to chain lightning it's strongest when you're hitting 2 targets and normally up to 4 people are standing huddled at spots at gate and tower corners
uhh?? what?
Sorry, but this clearly shows a severe lack of understanding how volley works, yet you think you are allknowledgable regarding its influence on balance?
I am not saying i am absolutely sure that volley is not a problem, i really don't know. But there hasn't been a single convincing argument so far from the "nerf volley"-fraction. Your example does sound problematic, but with the opening statement in mind it is questionable if you really grasped the situation correctly.
The ram-driver example also sounds as if you sent a lone paladin to drive the ram, and then are suprised that all shots hit only that one person. i mean... come on
5Rangers-assist vollying is something that does take some coordination to counter, but i doubt that 4tanks crossguarding each other with a healer in the back would have ANY difficulty at all setting up siege and using it. Heck i am quite certain two-tanks crossguarding with a healer wouldn't have problems, and even a caster with a shield tank and a healer would probably also be able to deal with being vollyed by 5rangers unless RNG goes completely against them.
Have shieldtanks been part of the quation at that particular ailliene incident?
Mon 9 Sep 2019 7:21 PM
by
easytoremember
Volley vs grouped targets results in more damage when there are 2 targets being hit- the chance for all arrows hitting a single target remains
Are you stupid?
Are you stupid?
Mon 9 Sep 2019 11:33 PM
by
mattymc
Sepplord wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 5:20 PMeasytoremember wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 4:35 PMYes, clumps
Similar to chain lightning it's strongest when you're hitting 2 targets and normally up to 4 people are standing huddled at spots at gate and tower corners
uhh?? what?
Sorry, but this clearly shows a severe lack of understanding how volley works, yet you think you are allknowledgable regarding its influence on balance?
I am not saying i am absolutely sure that volley is not a problem, i really don't know. But there hasn't been a single convincing argument so far from the "nerf volley"-fraction. Your example does sound problematic, but with the opening statement in mind it is questionable if you really grasped the situation correctly.
The ram-driver example also sounds as if you sent a lone paladin to drive the ram, and then are suprised that all shots hit only that one person. i mean... come on
5Rangers-assist vollying is something that does take some coordination to counter, but i doubt that 4tanks crossguarding each other with a healer in the back would have ANY difficulty at all setting up siege and using it. Heck i am quite certain two-tanks crossguarding with a healer wouldn't have problems, and even a caster with a shield tank and a healer would probably also be able to deal with being vollyed by 5rangers unless RNG goes completely against them.
Have shieldtanks been part of the quation at that particular ailliene incident?
I am thinking it is you who doesn't understand quite how stuff works or what/how actual damage v healing actually works; causing the kind of damage volley can w/o putting yourself at risk is STUPID --- while live has often made significant mistakes, the volley mechanic on live is infinitely more reasonable and fair.
Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:26 AM
by
Makrist
mattymc wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 11:33 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 5:20 PMeasytoremember wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 4:35 PMYes, clumps
Similar to chain lightning it's strongest when you're hitting 2 targets and normally up to 4 people are standing huddled at spots at gate and tower corners
uhh?? what?
Sorry, but this clearly shows a severe lack of understanding how volley works, yet you think you are allknowledgable regarding its influence on balance?
I am not saying i am absolutely sure that volley is not a problem, i really don't know. But there hasn't been a single convincing argument so far from the "nerf volley"-fraction. Your example does sound problematic, but with the opening statement in mind it is questionable if you really grasped the situation correctly.
The ram-driver example also sounds as if you sent a lone paladin to drive the ram, and then are suprised that all shots hit only that one person. i mean... come on
5Rangers-assist vollying is something that does take some coordination to counter, but i doubt that 4tanks crossguarding each other with a healer in the back would have ANY difficulty at all setting up siege and using it. Heck i am quite certain two-tanks crossguarding with a healer wouldn't have problems, and even a caster with a shield tank and a healer would probably also be able to deal with being vollyed by 5rangers unless RNG goes completely against them.
Have shieldtanks been part of the quation at that particular ailliene incident?
I am thinking it is you who doesn't understand quite how stuff works or what/how actual damage v healing actually works; causing the kind of damage volley can w/o putting yourself at risk is STUPID --- while live has often made significant mistakes, the volley mechanic on live is infinitely more reasonable and fair.
Infinitely more reasonable and fair: Translation...useless to the point i dont have to worry about it and can continue flaming archers as stealth zerging whores that should be removed from the game.
As one of like 5 Scouts on the server still active in RvR i can say its nice that the devs are smart. Smart enough to ignore the pleading of those incapable of actually using strategy and tactics. Good for you Phoenix staff!
Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:41 AM
by
mattymc
Makrist wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:26 AMmattymc wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 11:33 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 5:20 PMuhh?? what?
Sorry, but this clearly shows a severe lack of understanding how volley works, yet you think you are allknowledgable regarding its influence on balance?
I am not saying i am absolutely sure that volley is not a problem, i really don't know. But there hasn't been a single convincing argument so far from the "nerf volley"-fraction. Your example does sound problematic, but with the opening statement in mind it is questionable if you really grasped the situation correctly.
The ram-driver example also sounds as if you sent a lone paladin to drive the ram, and then are suprised that all shots hit only that one person. i mean... come on
5Rangers-assist vollying is something that does take some coordination to counter, but i doubt that 4tanks crossguarding each other with a healer in the back would have ANY difficulty at all setting up siege and using it. Heck i am quite certain two-tanks crossguarding with a healer wouldn't have problems, and even a caster with a shield tank and a healer would probably also be able to deal with being vollyed by 5rangers unless RNG goes completely against them.
Have shieldtanks been part of the quation at that particular ailliene incident?
I am thinking it is you who doesn't understand quite how stuff works or what/how actual damage v healing actually works; causing the kind of damage volley can w/o putting yourself at risk is STUPID --- while live has often made significant mistakes, the volley mechanic on live is infinitely more reasonable and fair.
Infinitely more reasonable and fair: Translation...useless to the point i dont have to worry about it and can continue flaming archers as stealth zerging whores that should be removed from the game.
As one of like 5 Scouts on the server still active in RvR i can say its nice that the devs are smart. Smart enough to ignore the pleading of those incapable of actually using strategy and tactics. Good for you Phoenix staff!
Always have to laugh at people who have no earthly idea what Strategy nor tactics are but throw it out as if they do ---- and clearly you are desperately fighting for anything OP you can get/keep......
Tue 10 Sep 2019 1:04 AM
by
Makrist
mattymc wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:41 AMMakrist wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:26 AMmattymc wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 11:33 PMI am thinking it is you who doesn't understand quite how stuff works or what/how actual damage v healing actually works; causing the kind of damage volley can w/o putting yourself at risk is STUPID --- while live has often made significant mistakes, the volley mechanic on live is infinitely more reasonable and fair.
Infinitely more reasonable and fair: Translation...useless to the point i dont have to worry about it and can continue flaming archers as stealth zerging whores that should be removed from the game.
As one of like 5 Scouts on the server still active in RvR i can say its nice that the devs are smart. Smart enough to ignore the pleading of those incapable of actually using strategy and tactics. Good for you Phoenix staff!
Always have to laugh at people who have no earthly idea what Strategy nor tactics are but throw it out as if they do ---- and clearly you are desperately fighting for anything OP you can get/keep......
I have one powerful ability (volley) that i spend 8 RA points to obtain. It is rendered useless in the following situations:
1. Enemy under cover.
2. Enemy has 7 shield spec.
3. Enemy has any healer available in group.
4. Enemy is closer than 1000 units.
5. Enemy moves more than 350 units in a 5 second window.
6. Enemy is guarded by a shield spec tank.
7. Enemy more than 3000 units.
8. I take damage from any source or interrupt (disease) at any time during my volley during which i must remain static and unstealthed (negates remaining shots of current volley)
If you cant find a way to exploit one of these 8 items to your benefit...stick to Go Fish. Because you suck at this.
Meanwhile...
50 bow spec provides indistinguishable damage from 35 spec.
My melee damage is on par with a cleric swinging a satin ribbon at a troll. Unless...i invest 30 or so RA points to increase my damage potential, but then i die because i have no survivability...the alternate is i survive for 10 minutes and blow all my RA to die anyway. Good news...eventually ill be RR 12 and i can stand up to a RR6 melee class. Maybe.
20% base uncover rate for all crit shot from stealth at the moment of draw (at 50 stealth).
No crit shot possible against targets in melee combat. Ever. Oh...and in almost 5 RR of RvR i have never once penetrated a bladeturn even though i have this thing that tells me i "can".
Regular shots that do moderate damage at best....with 3 second draw delay.
An entire spec line rendered useless by a small shield and 7 spec.
Tue 10 Sep 2019 2:10 AM
by
Pops999
I always have to laugh at MattyMcKid workin'.mattymc wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:41 AMMakrist wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:26 AMmattymc wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 11:33 PMI am thinking it is you who doesn't understand quite how stuff works or what/how actual damage v healing actually works; causing the kind of damage volley can w/o putting yourself at risk is STUPID --- while live has often made significant mistakes, the volley mechanic on live is infinitely more reasonable and fair.
Infinitely more reasonable and fair: Translation...useless to the point i dont have to worry about it and can continue flaming archers as stealth zerging whores that should be removed from the game.
As one of like 5 Scouts on the server still active in RvR i can say its nice that the devs are smart. Smart enough to ignore the pleading of those incapable of actually using strategy and tactics. Good for you Phoenix staff!
Always have to laugh at people who have no earthly idea what Strategy nor tactics are but throw it out as if they do ---- and clearly you are desperately fighting for anything OP you can get/keep......
Tue 10 Sep 2019 2:36 AM
by
easytoremember
That this is included as a negative is hilarious
Please keep in mind volley is mirrored across all 3 archer classes scout-kun, and before that my gripe is at untouchable status it provides during keep defense
I forgot to also mention tower sieges where a realm hulls up inside a tower. A few archers spam volley at the roof stairs and it becomes instadeath to walk outside. That on it's own is not an issue except: the only two other exits are both ports via a door (unless gate is open, whereupon it's instead a door port and an aoe hell). But the thing that making it an unapproachable volume is that volley is over a duration; gtaoe and siege are instant DD- they are blind single guesses with RuT, but volley is 5 shots over some seconds
I suggest turning into being closer to conventional gtaoe, the same 5 arrow limit, same damage, same reuse, no falloff pentalty to damage
So the ability is no longer a "field"
If there is one target alone 100% first 2 arrows hit, 50% 3rd, 20% 4th, 5% 5th or something akin to that
Only upon the archer completing the volley do all the arrows he has fired up to that point hit
If you need logic for why the arrows are hitting simultaneously he fires 1st with most power at steeper arc and 5th less power shallow arc
Interrupting the volley at 3 arrows fired results in 3 arrows hitting GT at the time the cast would have finished if it were completed 5
Your potential burst damage jumps up with this change so far as I can tell, and the difficulty of hotting a moving target goes up as well. You are much less likepy to be able to forcibly pin a target at their tower stairs
while you remain a big threat to them as they roam the tower roof
The potential for instadeath from assisting archers vs a lone target spikes upward but again the difficulty involved in hitting rises, as well as syncing volleys. Bigger gap between your cast starting and target(s) being rupted
Thoughts?
Tue 10 Sep 2019 4:43 AM
by
Makrist
Ok. I understand your point. So let me be more clear. We have (as archers) a defining skill line that is obsolete post 35 spec that is effectively rendered ineffective by any shield carrying class with a spec of 7 or a wide variety of other in game mechanics (snaring interrupting pets, intercepting pets, MOC, shields, Assasins in general, instant amnesia, instant mez, instant stun, instant lifetap, etc...).
So more to your point. If you can't find a way to exploit one of those 7 listed items to your benefit to render volley obsolete, or any combination of those 7....may I suggest Spades or perhaps a spicy game of solitaire?
So more to your point. If you can't find a way to exploit one of those 7 listed items to your benefit to render volley obsolete, or any combination of those 7....may I suggest Spades or perhaps a spicy game of solitaire?
Tue 10 Sep 2019 6:19 AM
by
easytoremember
Makrist wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 4:43 AMOk. I understand your point. So let me be more clear. We have (as archers) a defining skill line that is obsolete post 35 spec that is effectively rendered ineffective by any shield carrying class with a spec of 7 or a wide variety of other in game mechanics (snaring interrupting pets, intercepting pets, MOC, shields, Assasins in general, instant amnesia, instant mez, instant stun, instant lifetap, etc...).
So more to your point. If you can't find a way to exploit one of those 7 listed items to your benefit to render volley obsolete, or any combination of those 7....may I suggest Spades or perhaps a spicy game of solitaire?
I don't think you understand my pointMakrist wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 4:43 AMsnaring interrupting pets, intercepting pets, MOC, shields, Assasins in general, instant amnesia, instant mez, instant stun, instant lifetap, etc...
easytoremember wrote: ↑Sat 7 Sep 2019 8:03 PMcomes back to volley from the courtyard being OP
LT doesn't work without lis, assist doesn't work without los
...
Edit: I'll also add that they're (the volleying archer) not bound to one place so long as they remain in range, they can spam from whereever they like inside cy. Preventing them from spamming ram, cata, and hotspots (front of GT door for example) is impossible
easytoremember wrote: ↑Sat 7 Sep 2019 10:56 PMI said the volley users freely move around- assisted GT is pointless against them
easytoremember wrote: ↑Sun 8 Sep 2019 6:35 PMAccidently walking into a volleyspammed spot (2+) is instadeath even for some noncloth, with no indication that there is even something up with the given volume, by targets immune to retaliation (courtyard)
...
I'll say to clarify, the problem is a combination of their being untouchable, their range, and that it is over a duration as opposed to a single instant event, tweaking one or the other can resolve it without nerfing it to nothing.
...
ofc it's ruptable, just not when you're hidden away inside closed keep with guards at your ass and defenders sitting on the walls
easytoremember wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 4:35 PMTry to approach the area it's rupt if not instant death from volley alone. With that particular case it was a 4 or 5 rangers spamming GT's near one another and is where my complaint stems from- there is no way to retaliate against that shit between their being out of LOS and their range.
easytoremember wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 2:36 AMPlease keep in mind volley is mirrored across all 3 archer classes scout-kun, and before that my gripe is at untouchable status it provides during keep defense
Are you reading?
Is my english strange?
Did something in your head break when the crutch you've seemingly taken up looked remotely close to being snatched away?
Tue 10 Sep 2019 6:21 AM
by
Sepplord
mattymc wrote: ↑Mon 9 Sep 2019 11:33 PMI am thinking it is you who doesn't understand quite how stuff works or what/how actual damage v healing actually works; causing the kind of damage volley can w/o putting yourself at risk is STUPID --- while live has often made significant mistakes, the volley mechanic on live is infinitely more reasonable and fair.
ignoring own misunderstanding, avoiding every point of criticism and accusing your discussion partner of made up mistakes to deflect from their attack....
many would call it trump-style nowadays, but i am certain that kind of strategy is older than written texts
Tue 10 Sep 2019 9:17 AM
by
Cadebrennus
7 Shield? Hell, Volley can be countered with an unspeccable small or medium shield. I don't remember the percentages offhand but even an unspecced shield has a much higher chance to block an arrow than it does a melee attack. That's why my Ranger has a shield out during sieges (attack OR defense) as well as my Merc. The last time I was Volleying an open keep gate with 3-4 other Archers (the rest of the bg died leaving us and one group in a tower) we got a few kills using Volley, but most of the defenders got through, in or out. We were countered by 2 Archers who were able to get us quite easily since we were on the top of a tower.
3-4 Casters assisting on a particular area or target would have insta-gibbed any of the defenders running in or out of that doorway, whereas we only got a few kills. The only advantage Archers have is their range. That's it. Now stop whining about one of the two things that actually makes Archers useful in a Visi situation. On my Merc I don't even worry about Volley. I can run inside in between Volleys, and I can time the Volleys when running from cover to cover. No big deal.
3-4 Casters assisting on a particular area or target would have insta-gibbed any of the defenders running in or out of that doorway, whereas we only got a few kills. The only advantage Archers have is their range. That's it. Now stop whining about one of the two things that actually makes Archers useful in a Visi situation. On my Merc I don't even worry about Volley. I can run inside in between Volleys, and I can time the Volleys when running from cover to cover. No big deal.
Tue 10 Sep 2019 4:53 PM
by
easytoremember
-he says as he does as much. Ironic given people who foam at the mouth at mention of the guy you're likening it to put it to use exclusively and pretend it's him doing it insteadSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 6:21 AMignoring own misunderstanding, avoiding every point of criticism and accusing your discussion partner of made up mistakes to deflect from their attack....
many would call it trump-style nowadays, but i am certain that kind of strategy is older than written texts
Tue 10 Sep 2019 7:53 PM
by
easytoremember
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 9:17 AM7 Shield? Hell, Volley can be countered with an unspeccable small or medium shield. I don't remember the percentages offhand but even an unspecced shield has a much higher chance to block an arrow than it does a melee attack. That's why my Ranger has a shield out during sieges (attack OR defense) as well as my Merc. The last time I was Volleying an open keep gate with 3-4 other Archers (the rest of the bg died leaving us and one group in a tower) we got a few kills using Volley, but most of the defenders got through, in or out. We were countered by 2 Archers who were able to get us quite easily since we were on the top of a tower.
3-4 Casters assisting on a particular area or target would have insta-gibbed any of the defenders running in or out of that doorway, whereas we only got a few kills. The only advantage Archers have is their range. That's it. Now stop whining about one of the two things that actually makes Archers useful in a Visi situation. On my Merc I don't even worry about Volley. I can run inside in between Volleys, and I can time the Volleys when running from cover to cover. No big deal.
easytoremember wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 6:19 AMeasytoremember wrote: ↑Sat 7 Sep 2019 6:35 PMeasytoremember wrote: ↑Sun 8 Sep 2019 6:35 PMI'll say to clarify, the problem is a combination of their being untouchable, their range, and that it is over a duration as opposed to a single instant event, tweaking one or the other can resolve it without nerfing it to nothing.
Did a menta hit you with selective blindness irl
" can run inside in between Volleys, and I can time the Volleys when running from cover to cover. No big deal."
You can't time the volley if you're not taking hits from it and it's not as if they're all in sync
"3-4 Casters assisting on a particular area or target would have insta-gibbed any of the defenders running in or out of that doorway"
Their GTAoE is single blind fire within 1500 range. I take no issue with it
Volley is 5 blind shots per use with up to double the range. This distinction is important because people can enter the area throughout the duration, their GT has far more locations to both fire at and fire from, and multiple archers make unmarked volumes Do Not Approach eith no indication of start/end/size.
A gtaoe caster can hide inside the safety of their courtyard, but doing so severely restricts their potential targets and requires said target to be present at their GT and as close as possible to the exact GT (fall off damage)
Volley does not have fall off and their choice of CY locations is bigger with 2x larger reach of targets
Even worse is that as tagrgets of the volley flee (1 by 1 because you dunno if it's volley or a sniper initially) the attack becomes more and more concentrated. The caster variant, even targeting a ram, is retricted by the GT's location, so as soon as the guy unlucky to be on top of it hops the ram it is no longer anyone for full damage
You guys keep droning on about shields but that does not change your only option vs volley being sit there and take it or run
I have zero problem with volley as it is now, obviously with exception to closed keep, and maybe Tower(open/closed) because of the roof spam with lack of exits
easytoremember wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 2:36 AMI forgot to also mention tower sieges where a realm hulls up inside a tower. A few archers spam volley at the roof stairs and it becomes instadeath to walk outside. That on it's own is not an issue except: the only two other exits are both ports via a door (unless gate is open, whereupon it's instead a door port and an aoe hell).
Christ
Tue 10 Sep 2019 11:19 PM
by
mattymc
Pops999 wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 2:10 AMI always have to laugh at MattyMcKid workin'.mattymc wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:41 AMMakrist wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:26 AMInfinitely more reasonable and fair: Translation...useless to the point i dont have to worry about it and can continue flaming archers as stealth zerging whores that should be removed from the game.
As one of like 5 Scouts on the server still active in RvR i can say its nice that the devs are smart. Smart enough to ignore the pleading of those incapable of actually using strategy and tactics. Good for you Phoenix staff!
Always have to laugh at people who have no earthly idea what Strategy nor tactics are but throw it out as if they do ---- and clearly you are desperately fighting for anything OP you can get/keep......
Always amazes me how small some people are too...keep trying
Tue 10 Sep 2019 11:21 PM
by
mattymc
Makrist wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 1:04 AMmattymc wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:41 AMMakrist wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 12:26 AMInfinitely more reasonable and fair: Translation...useless to the point i dont have to worry about it and can continue flaming archers as stealth zerging whores that should be removed from the game.
As one of like 5 Scouts on the server still active in RvR i can say its nice that the devs are smart. Smart enough to ignore the pleading of those incapable of actually using strategy and tactics. Good for you Phoenix staff!
Always have to laugh at people who have no earthly idea what Strategy nor tactics are but throw it out as if they do ---- and clearly you are desperately fighting for anything OP you can get/keep......
I have one powerful ability (volley) that i spend 8 RA points to obtain. It is rendered useless in the following situations:
1. Enemy under cover.
2. Enemy has 7 shield spec.
3. Enemy has any healer available in group.
4. Enemy is closer than 1000 units.
5. Enemy moves more than 350 units in a 5 second window.
6. Enemy is guarded by a shield spec tank.
7. Enemy more than 3000 units.
8. I take damage from any source or interrupt (disease) at any time during my volley during which i must remain static and unstealthed (negates remaining shots of current volley)
If you cant find a way to exploit one of these 8 items to your benefit...stick to Go Fish. Because you suck at this.
Meanwhile...
50 bow spec provides indistinguishable damage from 35 spec.
My melee damage is on par with a cleric swinging a satin ribbon at a troll. Unless...i invest 30 or so RA points to increase my damage potential, but then i die because i have no survivability...the alternate is i survive for 10 minutes and blow all my RA to die anyway. Good news...eventually ill be RR 12 and i can stand up to a RR6 melee class. Maybe.
20% base uncover rate for all crit shot from stealth at the moment of draw (at 50 stealth).
No crit shot possible against targets in melee combat. Ever. Oh...and in almost 5 RR of RvR i have never once penetrated a bladeturn even though i have this thing that tells me i "can".
Regular shots that do moderate damage at best....with 3 second draw delay.
An entire spec line rendered useless by a small shield and 7 spec.
Using your own logic, wouldn't changing it make MORE sense to free up things for more useful, wide ranging help and perhaps improve spec lines --- trying to hard to keep something that, regardless of your perceived limitations, is OP... btw, I have never ONCE blocked a volley with a shield...perhaps it's just bad luck
Wed 11 Sep 2019 6:42 AM
by
Sepplord
easytoremember wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 4:53 PM-he says as he does as much. Ironic given people who foam at the mouth at mention of the guy you're likening it to put it to use exclusively and pretend it's him doing it insteadSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 10 Sep 2019 6:21 AMignoring own misunderstanding, avoiding every point of criticism and accusing your discussion partner of made up mistakes to deflect from their attack....
many would call it trump-style nowadays, but i am certain that kind of strategy is older than written texts
So we both don't have any argument and are only attacking each other? Guess we should close this discussion then, apparently noone has anything meaningful to say. I don't believe you are right with that, but i am willing to pretend that you are to end this pointless whining.
Glad we can agree on that
/thread closed
Wed 11 Sep 2019 7:41 PM
by
easytoremember
Cadebrennus says shield invalidates volley so it's fine as isSepplord wrote: ↑Wed 11 Sep 2019 6:42 AMSo we both don't have any argument and are only attacking each other? Guess we should close this discussion then, apparently noone has anything meaningful to say. I don't believe you are right with that, but i am willing to pretend that you are to end this pointless whining.
Glad we can agree on that
/thread closed
I say volley is unbalanced when used from inside locked keeps shield or not
Derailing thread for 2 posts doesn't necessitate closing it
Wed 11 Sep 2019 8:35 PM
by
Cadebrennus
easytoremember wrote: ↑Wed 11 Sep 2019 7:41 PMCadebrennus says shield invalidates volley so it's fine as isSepplord wrote: ↑Wed 11 Sep 2019 6:42 AMSo we both don't have any argument and are only attacking each other? Guess we should close this discussion then, apparently noone has anything meaningful to say. I don't believe you are right with that, but i am willing to pretend that you are to end this pointless whining.
Glad we can agree on that
/thread closed
I say volley is unbalanced when used from inside locked keeps shield or not
Derailing thread for 2 posts doesn't necessitate closing it
Stopping an unnecessary whine thread in its tracks however, is totally worth it.
Wed 11 Sep 2019 9:33 PM
by
easytoremember
Keep trying to write it off as whining as you likeCadebrennus wrote: ↑Wed 11 Sep 2019 8:35 PMStopping an unnecessary whine thread in its tracks however, is totally worth it.
When someone MoC's you can Amnesia to rupt and make use of mez/stun, NS cuts range (30 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
MoC spell effect plays
The caster needs range of spell he's using and LOS
When someone juggernauts their pet you CC it or keep it out of melee range (60 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
The pet turns huge
The caster initially needs 500 or 1000 range with his pet, forget which, and inside 2000 to heal. The soruce of the RA's effect, the pet, is an immediately present target/killable thing
Someone drops TWF/NM you crawl out of it or break LOS with center (15 minute RuT)
The affected area has a graphical marker
The caster needs 1500 range and LOS of GT, due to this the caster is vulnerable before and after cast
Catapults once you locate can be catapulted in return or GT'd down because they're IMMOBILE
The affected area has the rubble smoke cloud effect
A Volley from keep CY has no counter because they're MOBILE (15 second RuT)
You can't stun because they're not in LOS
You can't mez because they're not in LOS
You can't NS because they're not in LOS
You can't amnesia because they're not in LOS
You can't target because they're not in LOS
The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS
Wall climbers are all melee, putting aside that defenders and guards will ruin their day, only minstrels have a range rupt/cc with access to a spot to potentially harass CY archers, but they too are melee; they're not going to kill an archer with 2 ranged dd's and dropping into CY is suicide. More important than the minstrel being ineffective as a counter is that only Albion has them
Pets entering closed keep to chase an archer is ineffective as a counter and is a bug to begin with
Wearing a shield (presuming it's anywhere near as effective as you claim) is not a counter to volley, you're just taking it
'Just move out of they volley' Rams and catapults are static things, they can't be moved
The volley itself has no marker
If you're hugging keepwall and the volley is set 300 units behind you, you retreat through 650 units of volley, not 350
Again, the duration component of the volley is one of he largest problems with it; otherwise being a sort of
skillshot as GTAoE, it is instead a tempoary area with no damage falloff
Volley is an RA. It's overpowered in closed keep scenarios similar to TWF and NM having been overpowered in CK/Tower scenariois, only TWF/NM were op in offensive, volley is so in that the archer is impervious to their targets outside the keep before, during, and after cast
In the first place, response to a volley begins with discerning if there is even a volley occurring or if it's a sniper thanks to targeting of normal archer attacker not occurring until the 2nd arrow hits, lest you spam LT and grab the target midway to 2nd arrow landing
Wed 11 Sep 2019 9:57 PM
by
Cadebrennus
easytoremember wrote: ↑Wed 11 Sep 2019 9:33 PMKeep trying to write it off as whining as you likeCadebrennus wrote: ↑Wed 11 Sep 2019 8:35 PMStopping an unnecessary whine thread in its tracks however, is totally worth it.
When someone MoC's you can Amnesia to rupt and make use of mez/stun, NS cuts range (30 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
MoC spell effect plays
The caster needs range of spell he's using and LOS
When someone juggernauts their pet you CC it or keep it out of melee range (60 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
The pet turns huge
The caster initially needs 500 or 1000 range with his pet, forget which, and inside 2000 to heal. The soruce of the RA's effect, the pet, is an immediately present target/killable thing
Someone drops TWF/NM you crawl out of it or break LOS with center (15 minute RuT)
The affected area has a graphical marker
The caster needs 1500 range and LOS of GT, due to this the caster is vulnerable before and after cast
Catapults once you locate can be catapulted in return or GT'd down because they're IMMOBILE
The affected area has the rubble smoke cloud effect
A Volley from keep CY has no counter because they're MOBILE (15 second RuT)
You can't stun because they're not in LOS
You can't mez because they're not in LOS
You can't NS because they're not in LOS
You can't amnesia because they're not in LOS
You can't target because they're not in LOS
The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS
Wall climbers are all melee, putting aside that defenders and guards will ruin their day, only minstrels have a range rupt/cc with access to a spot to potentially harass CY archers, but they too are melee; they're not going to kill an archer with 2 ranged dd's and dropping into CY is suicide. More important than the minstrel being ineffective as a counter is that only Albion has them
Pets entering closed keep to chase an archer is ineffective as a counter and is a bug to begin with
Wearing a shield (presuming it's anywhere near as effective as you claim) is not a counter to volley, you're just taking it
'Just move out of they volley' Rams and catapults are static things, they can't be moved
The volley itself has no marker
If you're hugging keepwall and the volley is set 300 units behind you, you retreat through 650 units of volley, not 350
Again, the duration component of the volley is one of he largest problems with it; otherwise being a sort of
skillshot as GTAoE, it is instead a tempoary area with no damage falloff
Volley is an RA. It's overpowered in closed keep scenarios similar to TWF and NM having been overpowered in CK/Tower scenariois, only TWF/NM were op in offensive, volley is so in that the archer is impervious to their targets outside the keep before, during, and after cast
In the first place, response to a volley begins with discerning if there is even a volley occurring or if it's a sniper thanks to targeting of normal archer attacker not occurring until the 2nd arrow hits, lest you spam LT and grab the target midway to 2nd arrow landing
If only you could equip a shield or RUN UNDER A ROOF.... if only....
Funny, some of the other counters you mentioned are far more complicated or require specific class abilities. My Merc has had ZERO issues dealing with volley. I just run back under cover and walk around with my shield equipped. Problem solved, problem staying solved.
Thu 12 Sep 2019 12:16 AM
by
easytoremember
What roof are you saying keep attackers run under while the gate is closed? You understand what a locked keep is right? Additionally the fact you're still running for cover with a shield equipped is proof enough it does not solve volleys from CY issueCadebrennus wrote: ↑Wed 11 Sep 2019 9:57 PMIf only you could equip a shield or RUN UNDER A ROOF.... if only....
Funny, some of the other counters you mentioned are far more complicated or require specific class abilities. My Merc has had ZERO issues dealing with volley. I just run back under cover and walk around with my shield equipped. Problem solved, problem staying solved.
The counters to other abilities I listed are shared among multuple classes which is why those RA's are balanced.
In volley's case the only realistic counter is unrealistic ability to follow the CY archer with GT's to keep him rupted wih your own volley, which demands an archer specifically with a certain RA. That is not balanced
"but there are gtaoe casters too!" not with 3k range there aren't
Thu 12 Sep 2019 12:34 AM
by
gotwqqd
easytoremember wrote: ↑Wed 11 Sep 2019 9:33 PMKeep trying to write it off as whining as you likeCadebrennus wrote: ↑Wed 11 Sep 2019 8:35 PMStopping an unnecessary whine thread in its tracks however, is totally worth it.
When someone MoC's you can Amnesia to rupt and make use of mez/stun, NS cuts range (30 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
MoC spell effect plays
The caster needs range of spell he's using and LOS
When someone juggernauts their pet you CC it or keep it out of melee range (60 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
The pet turns huge
The caster initially needs 500 or 1000 range with his pet, forget which, and inside 2000 to heal. The soruce of the RA's effect, the pet, is an immediately present target/killable thing
Someone drops TWF/NM you crawl out of it or break LOS with center (15 minute RuT)
The affected area has a graphical marker
The caster needs 1500 range and LOS of GT, due to this the caster is vulnerable before and after cast
Catapults once you locate can be catapulted in return or GT'd down because they're IMMOBILE
The affected area has the rubble smoke cloud effect
A Volley from keep CY has no counter because they're MOBILE (15 second RuT)
You can't stun because they're not in LOS
You can't mez because they're not in LOS
You can't NS because they're not in LOS
You can't amnesia because they're not in LOS
You can't target because they're not in LOS
The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS
Wall climbers are all melee, putting aside that defenders and guards will ruin their day, only minstrels have a range rupt/cc with access to a spot to potentially harass CY archers, but they too are melee; they're not going to kill an archer with 2 ranged dd's and dropping into CY is suicide. More important than the minstrel being ineffective as a counter is that only Albion has them
Pets entering closed keep to chase an archer is ineffective as a counter and is a bug to begin with
Wearing a shield (presuming it's anywhere near as effective as you claim) is not a counter to volley, you're just taking it
'Just move out of they volley' Rams and catapults are static things, they can't be moved
The volley itself has no marker
If you're hugging keepwall and the volley is set 300 units behind you, you retreat through 650 units of volley, not 350
Again, the duration component of the volley is one of he largest problems with it; otherwise being a sort of
skillshot as GTAoE, it is instead a tempoary area with no damage falloff
Volley is an RA. It's overpowered in closed keep scenarios similar to TWF and NM having been overpowered in CK/Tower scenariois, only TWF/NM were op in offensive, volley is so in that the archer is impervious to their targets outside the keep before, during, and after cast
In the first place, response to a volley begins with discerning if there is even a volley occurring or if it's a sniper thanks to targeting of normal archer attacker not occurring until the 2nd arrow hits, lest you spam LT and grab the target midway to 2nd arrow landing
Less classes can counter moc than those that can counter volley
Thu 12 Sep 2019 4:19 AM
by
easytoremember
Which classes are you saying counter CY volley?gotwqqd wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 12:34 AMeasytoremember wrote: ↑Wed 11 Sep 2019 9:33 PMKeep trying to write it off as whining as you like
When someone MoC's you can Amnesia to rupt and make use of mez/stun, NS cuts range (30 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
MoC spell effect plays
The caster needs range of spell he's using and LOS
When someone juggernauts their pet you CC it or keep it out of melee range (60 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
The pet turns huge
The caster initially needs 500 or 1000 range with his pet, forget which, and inside 2000 to heal. The soruce of the RA's effect, the pet, is an immediately present target/killable thing
Someone drops TWF/NM you crawl out of it or break LOS with center (15 minute RuT)
The affected area has a graphical marker
The caster needs 1500 range and LOS of GT, due to this the caster is vulnerable before and after cast
Catapults once you locate can be catapulted in return or GT'd down because they're IMMOBILE
The affected area has the rubble smoke cloud effect
A Volley from keep CY has no counter because they're MOBILE (15 second RuT)
You can't stun because they're not in LOS
You can't mez because they're not in LOS
You can't NS because they're not in LOS
You can't amnesia because they're not in LOS
You can't target because they're not in LOS
The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS
Wall climbers are all melee, putting aside that defenders and guards will ruin their day, only minstrels have a range rupt/cc with access to a spot to potentially harass CY archers, but they too are melee; they're not going to kill an archer with 2 ranged dd's and dropping into CY is suicide. More important than the minstrel being ineffective as a counter is that only Albion has them
Pets entering closed keep to chase an archer is ineffective as a counter and is a bug to begin with
Wearing a shield (presuming it's anywhere near as effective as you claim) is not a counter to volley, you're just taking it
'Just move out of they volley' Rams and catapults are static things, they can't be moved
The volley itself has no marker
If you're hugging keepwall and the volley is set 300 units behind you, you retreat through 650 units of volley, not 350
Again, the duration component of the volley is one of he largest problems with it; otherwise being a sort of
skillshot as GTAoE, it is instead a tempoary area with no damage falloff
Volley is an RA. It's overpowered in closed keep scenarios similar to TWF and NM having been overpowered in CK/Tower scenariois, only TWF/NM were op in offensive, volley is so in that the archer is impervious to their targets outside the keep before, during, and after cast
In the first place, response to a volley begins with discerning if there is even a volley occurring or if it's a sniper thanks to targeting of normal archer attacker not occurring until the 2nd arrow hits, lest you spam LT and grab the target midway to 2nd arrow landing
Less classes can counter moc than those that can counter volley
Thu 12 Sep 2019 7:45 AM
by
Cadebrennus
easytoremember wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 4:19 AMWhich classes are you saying counter CY volley?gotwqqd wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 12:34 AMeasytoremember wrote: ↑Wed 11 Sep 2019 9:33 PMKeep trying to write it off as whining as you like
When someone MoC's you can Amnesia to rupt and make use of mez/stun, NS cuts range (30 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
MoC spell effect plays
The caster needs range of spell he's using and LOS
When someone juggernauts their pet you CC it or keep it out of melee range (60 seconds, 15 minute RuT)
The pet turns huge
The caster initially needs 500 or 1000 range with his pet, forget which, and inside 2000 to heal. The soruce of the RA's effect, the pet, is an immediately present target/killable thing
Someone drops TWF/NM you crawl out of it or break LOS with center (15 minute RuT)
The affected area has a graphical marker
The caster needs 1500 range and LOS of GT, due to this the caster is vulnerable before and after cast
Catapults once you locate can be catapulted in return or GT'd down because they're IMMOBILE
The affected area has the rubble smoke cloud effect
A Volley from keep CY has no counter because they're MOBILE (15 second RuT)
You can't stun because they're not in LOS
You can't mez because they're not in LOS
You can't NS because they're not in LOS
You can't amnesia because they're not in LOS
You can't target because they're not in LOS
The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS
Wall climbers are all melee, putting aside that defenders and guards will ruin their day, only minstrels have a range rupt/cc with access to a spot to potentially harass CY archers, but they too are melee; they're not going to kill an archer with 2 ranged dd's and dropping into CY is suicide. More important than the minstrel being ineffective as a counter is that only Albion has them
Pets entering closed keep to chase an archer is ineffective as a counter and is a bug to begin with
Wearing a shield (presuming it's anywhere near as effective as you claim) is not a counter to volley, you're just taking it
'Just move out of they volley' Rams and catapults are static things, they can't be moved
The volley itself has no marker
If you're hugging keepwall and the volley is set 300 units behind you, you retreat through 650 units of volley, not 350
Again, the duration component of the volley is one of he largest problems with it; otherwise being a sort of
skillshot as GTAoE, it is instead a tempoary area with no damage falloff
Volley is an RA. It's overpowered in closed keep scenarios similar to TWF and NM having been overpowered in CK/Tower scenariois, only TWF/NM were op in offensive, volley is so in that the archer is impervious to their targets outside the keep before, during, and after cast
In the first place, response to a volley begins with discerning if there is even a volley occurring or if it's a sniper thanks to targeting of normal archer attacker not occurring until the 2nd arrow hits, lest you spam LT and grab the target midway to 2nd arrow landing
Less classes can counter moc than those that can counter volley
For starters, other Archers with Volley lol. Also, any class that can man a gtaoe siege weapon.
Thu 12 Sep 2019 2:45 PM
by
Makrist
Let me summarize 9 pages of this thread:
This one class that makes up about .5% of the RvR population (in Albion anyway) has an ability that they spend 8 RP to gain. This ability is useless in all scenarios except keep and tower attack/defense. Well folks...it killed a guy once. So now we must nerf it to the point where it is useless without 6 assisting friends coordinating their attack so that never happens again.
The end.
P.S. In the words of our creator Mark Jacobs. "Working as Intended"
This one class that makes up about .5% of the RvR population (in Albion anyway) has an ability that they spend 8 RP to gain. This ability is useless in all scenarios except keep and tower attack/defense. Well folks...it killed a guy once. So now we must nerf it to the point where it is useless without 6 assisting friends coordinating their attack so that never happens again.
The end.
P.S. In the words of our creator Mark Jacobs. "Working as Intended"
Thu 12 Sep 2019 4:57 PM
by
easytoremember
From the post you quoted:Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 7:45 AMFor starters, other Archers with Volley lol. Also, any class that can man a gtaoe siege weapon.
"The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS"
From the post above it:
"In volley's case the only realistic counter is unrealistic ability to follow the CY archer with GT's to keep him rupted wih your own volley, which demands an archer specifically with a certain RA. That is not balanced
'but there are gtaoe casters too!' not with 3k range there aren't"
As for siege weapons, you can't target them directly without targeting them first, and in the case you somehow do they just enter stealth for a second to break your target, or even better leave your catapult's range and continue
volleying you from 3k
Makrist wrote: This ability is useless in all scenarios except keep and tower attack/defense.
'An ability that permits to you to completely conceal your location using an obstruction between you and your target is useless in all scenariois outside keep/tower defense'
if your iq is potato
Thu 12 Sep 2019 5:54 PM
by
Cadebrennus
.easytoremember wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 4:57 PMFrom the post you quoted:Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 7:45 AMFor starters, other Archers with Volley lol. Also, any class that can man a gtaoe siege weapon.
"The best you can do is try to GTAoE or Volley them, but they move a bit and resume Volley because they aren't bound to any given spot, their range is huge, and they do not need LOS"
From the post above it:
"In volley's case the only realistic counter is unrealistic ability to follow the CY archer with GT's to keep him rupted wih your own volley, which demands an archer specifically with a certain RA. That is not balanced
'but there are gtaoe casters too!' not with 3k range there aren't"
As for siege weapons, you can't target them directly without targeting them first, and in the case you somehow do they just enter stealth for a second to break your target, or even better leave your catapult's range and continue
volleying you from 3kMakrist wrote: This ability is useless in all scenarios except keep and tower attack/defense.
'An ability that permits to you to completely conceal your location using an obstruction between you and your target is useless in all scenariois outside keep/tower defense'
if your iq is potato
.
Thu 12 Sep 2019 6:55 PM
by
easytoremember
Are you just too intelligent to put your reasoning into words?
Thu 12 Sep 2019 8:32 PM
by
Cadebrennus
Thu 12 Sep 2019 10:28 PM
by
Makrist
Nah...i totally remember the last time in a 1v1 encounter i was able to line up a GT on a toon standing in one spot and get off an attack that took 5 seconds to execute before they moved. Of course once they moved i was out of LOS for regular shots and out of bow range unstealthed in the frontiers....no issue there if you like camping greys xping.
Oh...what about the time we attacked with an 8man...oh wait. Scouts arent invited to 8man runs. Nevermind
But this one time...at scout camp...see we were in a zerg and we met another zerg...i was able to ground target their bard...yeah, thats it. See then he moved and i had to sprint to catch up as one zerg drew the other in.
Volley is useless in 99% of all open field encounters. The pace of RvR is too fast to allow its setup requirements to be effective. It's almost like you have never RvR'd as a scout and have no idea what in the hell you are talking about. Potato indeed.
Oh...what about the time we attacked with an 8man...oh wait. Scouts arent invited to 8man runs. Nevermind
But this one time...at scout camp...see we were in a zerg and we met another zerg...i was able to ground target their bard...yeah, thats it. See then he moved and i had to sprint to catch up as one zerg drew the other in.
Volley is useless in 99% of all open field encounters. The pace of RvR is too fast to allow its setup requirements to be effective. It's almost like you have never RvR'd as a scout and have no idea what in the hell you are talking about. Potato indeed.
Thu 12 Sep 2019 11:43 PM
by
easytoremember
Should be pretty effortless for you to dismantle my case if that's true~ but you've been here for 5 pages and have yet to do so. Going off your earlier posts you didn't even bother to read what I'm arguing. The plot of your favorite book is going to seem really dumb when you're only reading tidbits of paragraphs on a whimCadebrennus wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 8:32 PMMost of the time your responses are too dumb to even waste words on.
Discuss the topic or fuck off
Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:09 AM
by
easytoremember
Makrist wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 10:28 PMNah...i totally remember the last time in a 1v1 encounter i was able to line up a GT on a toon standing in one spot and get off an attack that took 5 seconds to execute before they moved. Of course once they moved i was out of LOS for regular shots and out of bow range unstealthed in the frontiers....no issue there if you like camping greys xping.
Oh...what about the time we attacked with an 8man...oh wait. Scouts arent invited to 8man runs. Nevermind
But this one time...at scout camp...see we were in a zerg and we met another zerg...i was able to ground target their bard...yeah, thats it. See then he moved and i had to sprint to catch up as one zerg drew the other in.
Volley is useless in 99% of all open field encounters. The pace of RvR is too fast to allow its setup requirements to be effective. It's almost like you have never RvR'd as a scout and have no idea what in the hell you are talking about. Potato indeed.
I dislike having to teach you how to incorporate volley nto your class
The first most obvious use for is to finish off an enemy who flees into the postern door of a keep at outer wall. With your GT set in advance, like any good archer does, you gamble on them being too relieved having gotten to 'safety' inside their keep. The variables here are whether they stay near the door to regen and whether or not they're underneatth the wall's rampart. Your range puts outside of guard and archer los
Any sort of obstruction that your target flees to to try and force you into melee range or cease being rupted by you (bridges, houses, boulders, posts, w/e). You pick a spot with this possibility in mind and volley them if they try to zone you instead of closing distance with you
Even without preparing the GT in adcance it's as easy as hitting a macro off qb 1050 1250 1500 1750 2000 2250 2500 2750 2950
If you're too lazy to use ctrl/alt add a page on your main wb and scroll between them when needed
You can improvise with a volley to finish target/rupt if your buddy is dragged behind something just a bit too far to run into LOS of to save his ass. You can dismiss it as too specific, stuff happens
You're rooted with fight going on behind something breaking your LoS but volley is not going near enough to bring it in your favor. A camp of mobs also outside your LOS. Volley them (preferably 1 mob, gt ag edge of camp)
Pull an enemy's pet into guards when he's hiding from you/pet not passive
Keep healer rupted long enough for your mate to slap him and his duo buddy up after they've talen cover behind something
Yeah most of these involve some degree of camping. Of course they do. You're you a stealther. You've all the time in the world to set up fights to your liking, whether for visis or potential stealths deciding to pop your ungrouped allies, solo or as a mob. Potato iq on your part
I'll also have to try Volley inside df at some time for grabbing the ones hiding in the room above 3rd step, but dunno if that counts as amcoeling throughout dungeons
Was funny seeing catapult works there
Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:59 AM
by
Makrist
easytoremember wrote: ↑Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:09 AMMakrist wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 10:28 PMNah...i totally remember the last time in a 1v1 encounter i was able to line up a GT on a toon standing in one spot and get off an attack that took 5 seconds to execute before they moved. Of course once they moved i was out of LOS for regular shots and out of bow range unstealthed in the frontiers....no issue there if you like camping greys xping.
Oh...what about the time we attacked with an 8man...oh wait. Scouts arent invited to 8man runs. Nevermind
But this one time...at scout camp...see we were in a zerg and we met another zerg...i was able to ground target their bard...yeah, thats it. See then he moved and i had to sprint to catch up as one zerg drew the other in.
Volley is useless in 99% of all open field encounters. The pace of RvR is too fast to allow its setup requirements to be effective. It's almost like you have never RvR'd as a scout and have no idea what in the hell you are talking about. Potato indeed.
I dislike having to teach you how to incorporate volley nto your class
The first most obvious use for is to finish off an enemy who flees into the postern door of a keep at outer wall. With your GT set in advance, like any good archer does, you gamble on them being too relieved having gotten to 'safety' inside their keep. The variables here are whether they stay near the door to regen and whether or not they're underneatth the wall's rampart. Your range puts outside of guard and archer los
Any sort of obstruction that your target flees to to try and force you into melee range or cease being rupted by you (bridges, houses, boulders, posts, w/e). You pick a spot with this possibility in mind and volley them if they try to zone you instead of closing distance with you
Even without preparing the GT in adcance it's as easy as hitting a macro off qb 1050 1250 1500 1750 2000 2250 2500 2750 2950
If you're too lazy to use ctrl/alt add a page on your main wb and scroll between them when needed
You can improvise with a volley to finish target/rupt if your buddy is dragged behind something just a bit too far to run into LOS of to save his ass. You can dismiss it as too specific, stuff happens
You're rooted with fight going on behind something breaking your LoS but volley is not going near enough to bring it in your favor. A camp of mobs also outside your LOS. Volley them (preferably 1 mob, gt ag edge of camp)
Pull an enemy's pet into guards when he's hiding from you/pet not passive
Keep healer rupted long enough for your mate to slap him and his duo buddy up after they've talen cover behind something
Yeah most of these involve some degree of camping. Of course they do. You're you a stealther. You've all the time in the world to set up fights to your liking, whether for visis or potential stealths deciding to pop your ungrouped allies, solo or as a mob. Potato iq on your part
I'll also have to try Volley inside df at some time for grabbing the ones hiding in the room above 3rd step, but dunno if that counts as amcoeling throughout dungeons
Was funny seeing catapult works there
So your solution to try and scramble to find a way to use volley is to stand outside a postern (on what would presumably be either the open field or on a river's edge at 3000 units max range) and hope your GTAE finds a person that may have stopped inside the door to rest instead of tagging a random guard? That sounds like a suicide with extra steps. Any keep with enough traffic making it worthwhile to hunt is likely not going to be forgiving enough for you to stand outside for 10-15 seconds trying to bracket your target.
A melee would be the only thing to break LOS in this way, and I don't chase melee behind obstacles. I have also never in 5 realm ranks seen this happen except on a bridge, and in those instances they are never just waiting....they are circling below and moving around your flanks. If it's a tank they typically engage....if it's a stealther they break LOS and move while stealthing to get the drop...and support will either mez you or just run. I would much rather reposition using stealth to get a better angle on my target. This allows me to choose the ground instead of hoping he stands in one spot instead of ....backing up 300 units. Standing out in the open as a scout in places where you can engage solo players at will is typically not recommended.
My Infiltrator friend i duo with isn't dumb enough to get pulled out of LOS...we make sure that doesn't happen because it destroys my efficiency. Better to melee side by side then end up chasing him across a bridge. Get better partners.
Pulling pets into guards? Any caster dumb enough to allow this to happen probably isn't worth any RP anyway. Either way this more than likely would fall under the Keep or Tower siege category because last i knew those are where the guards are located.
Realm Points equal to just over RR5 and i have yet to encounter one single instance where these would be considered "Good ideas" instead of last resorts or outright waste of time. Using a 15 second attack you stand still and mostly visible for in any of these situations simply sounds like a poor choice. Either you allowed yourself to be put into a poor situation in the first place and ended up using a poor solution, or it's all horseshit.
Fri 13 Sep 2019 2:22 AM
by
easytoremember
No, Beno postern for example is the primary entry/exit. When you're hunting at bridge or the river enemies frequently try to escape to the postern and recoverMakrist wrote: ↑Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:59 AMSo your solution to try and scramble to find a way to use volley is to stand outside a postern (on what would presumably be either the open field or on a river's edge at 3000 units max range) and hope your GTAE finds a person that may have stopped inside the door to rest instead of tagging a random guard? That sounds like a suicide with extra steps. Any keep with enough traffic making it worthwhile to hunt is likely not going to be forgiving enough for you to stand outside for 10-15 seconds trying to bracket your target.
inside the keep. Volley permits you to finish them off if they do not backtrack towards the postern before they try healing up (because if they hug the postern on the inside they're underneath the wall)
Guards that get tagged inside path through the front door only, they deaggro before ever reaching you if you're at postern side of keep
You have enough range even eith the elevation difference to conceal yourself underhill for the volley
Any caster sitting outside their own spell range or with q/c down will prioritize an obstruction to break LOS over trying to outrange you. Again volley here is a means of finishing off a target or preventing them from reentering stealth long enough for a buddy to reach themMakrist wrote: ↑Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:59 AMA melee would be the only thing to break LOS in this way, and I don't chase melee behind obstacles. I have also never in 5 realm ranks seen this happen except on a bridge, and in those instances they are never just waiting....they are circling below and moving around your flanks. If it's a tank they typically engage....if it's a stealther they break LOS and move while stealthing to get the drop...and support will either mez you or just run. I would much rather reposition using stealth to get a better angle on my target. This allows me to choose the ground instead of hoping he stands in one spot instead of ....backing up 300 units. Standing out in the open as a scout in places where you can engage solo players at will is typically not recommended.
It also depends entirely on your GT how many units he must clear for get out of your volley
It happens a lot courtesy of pet being summoned over and over againMakrist wrote: ↑Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:59 AMMy Infiltrator friend i duo with isn't dumb enough to get pulled out of LOS...we make sure that doesn't happen because it destroys my efficiency. Better to melee side by side then end up chasing him across a bridge. Get better partners.
Pulling pets into guards? Any caster dumb enough to allow this to happen probably isn't worth any RP anyway. Either way this more than likely would fall under the Keep or Tower siege category because last i knew those are where the guards are located.
In this case it would you roaming in the area close to a friendly tower/keep, but not necessarily attack/defending it
This works on groups just as much as it works on solos with variable results
The RA is an augment not a replacement for your other skills- you said it's useless but it's not
There are conditions for making it worthwhile but they're there, and as it happens its far too good in defense of closed keeps. I'm not opposed to buffing it, which I proposed a few pages back, while its overall DPS goes up all arrows land simultaneously instead of people walking in and out throughout the shot. It is the component of multiple shots over time that causes the imbalance
Fri 13 Sep 2019 3:56 AM
by
gotwqqd
Can volley be used to uncover stealthed players?
Blanket popular camp locations?
Blanket popular camp locations?
Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:14 PM
by
Makrist
gotwqqd wrote: ↑Fri 13 Sep 2019 3:56 AMCan volley be used to uncover stealthed players?
Blanket popular camp locations?
You can, but it can be risky and as a scout its rare it would turn a defeat into a win unless you have higher realm ranks under your tool belt. The damage it causes is one heal pot and perhaps a legion charge from being negated. This leaves you facing a pissed off assassin toe to toe...or running. You can likely get off a couple rapid shot prior to them closeing, but depending on your melee skill that may or may not matter. 75% of my fights against assassins are against RR7+ sneaks. You wont intimidate them at RR5 as a scout. I can see it being potentially powerful for a ranger or hunter perhaps since they can stand toe to toe in melee with most any equivalent RR toon.. they are also the ones able to walk face first into a sneak and walk away after.
Most stealthers are significantly more than 3000 units from safety such as keep guards. Often this means standing in the open for 15 seconds while you volley. You wont kill anyone unless you have two or more scouts to assist you, and then your ground target must be spot on. If you have backup and if you get lucky it can be a nasty surprise for sure, but absent friends to assist volley you still have to chase them down or engage at their charge in. Ive only had it succeed once, but i knew there was a small stealth group close so we could have just organized a wipe anyway. All it did is uncover two...we still had to chase them down.
In the end its simply extremely situational. Even if i attempted to use it as described above by others it would be valuable in maybe 1 out of 100 fights. This dynamic changes with the other realms since they have the melee dps to actually create different opportunities, but one nerf nerfs them all, and the scout quite frankly doesnt warrant any nerfs. Period. The class is already hanging by a thread.
Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:23 PM
by
Freedomcall
gotwqqd wrote: ↑Fri 13 Sep 2019 3:56 AMCan volley be used to uncover stealthed players?
Blanket popular camp locations?
No, you can't. Stealthed players don't get hit from volley.
Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:26 PM
by
Makrist
Are you sure? Ive hit Hunters before that were camping a bridge. Was it just a fluke with timing and them popping pots or something?
Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:29 PM
by
Freedomcall
Makrist wrote: ↑Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:26 PM
Are you sure? Ive hit Hunters before that were camping a bridge. Was it just a fluke with timing and them popping pots or something?
Hmm not sure what happened to that hunter, but my NS/SB/Infil never got hit from a volley even when unstealthed players around me got hit(ex. at the roof of a tower).
Or maybe ssins and archers are different on volley?
Anyway, i'm at least sure about ssins.
Whenever I got hit by a volley, I go inside a tower, stealth, and then come back upto the roof. I never get hit again.
Fri 13 Sep 2019 1:00 PM
by
Makrist
Also important to remember it is a chance to hit a target. So if five of you are standing there you may just get lucky.
Either way this should be easy to test.
Either way this should be easy to test.
Fri 13 Sep 2019 4:19 PM
by
gotwqqd
Makrist wrote: ↑Fri 13 Sep 2019 12:14 PMgotwqqd wrote: ↑Fri 13 Sep 2019 3:56 AMCan volley be used to uncover stealthed players?
Blanket popular camp locations?
You can, but it can be risky and as a scout its rare it would turn a defeat into a win unless you have higher realm ranks under your tool belt. The damage it causes is one heal pot and perhaps a legion charge from being negated. This leaves you facing a pissed off assassin toe to toe...or running. You can likely get off a couple rapid shot prior to them closeing, but depending on your melee skill that may or may not matter. 75% of my fights against assassins are against RR7+ sneaks. You wont intimidate them at RR5 as a scout. I can see it being potentially powerful for a ranger or hunter perhaps since they can stand toe to toe in melee with most any equivalent RR toon.. they are also the ones able to walk face first into a sneak and walk away after.
Most stealthers are significantly more than 3000 units from safety such as keep guards. Often this means standing in the open for 15 seconds while you volley. You wont kill anyone unless you have two or more scouts to assist you, and then your ground target must be spot on. If you have backup and if you get lucky it can be a nasty surprise for sure, but absent friends to assist volley you still have to chase them down or engage at their charge in. Ive only had it succeed once, but i knew there was a small stealth group close so we could have just organized a wipe anyway. All it did is uncover two...we still had to chase them down.
In the end its simply extremely situational. Even if i attempted to use it as described above by others it would be valuable in maybe 1 out of 100 fights. This dynamic changes with the other realms since they have the melee dps to actually create different opportunities, but one nerf nerfs them all, and the scout quite frankly doesnt warrant any nerfs. Period. The class is already hanging by a thread.
I was thinking more of when near a keep and you can uncover sneaks for realm mates
Sun 15 Sep 2019 12:04 AM
by
Makrist
So apparently they are toying with boosting damage for bow significantly, changing volley to an archery spec and reducing reuse to 1min, and...get this... giving scouts a 10 min reuse single target static tempest with stun immunity reset.
If this happens ..Slam is back on the menu boys, and the nerf scouts threads will soon follow. Heaven forbid a solo targets purge is down and they have to survive through 18+ seconds of point blank rapidfire shots. Low end estimates in that situation is over 1.5k damage.
Good luck.
If this happens ..Slam is back on the menu boys, and the nerf scouts threads will soon follow. Heaven forbid a solo targets purge is down and they have to survive through 18+ seconds of point blank rapidfire shots. Low end estimates in that situation is over 1.5k damage.
Good luck.
This topic is locked and you can't reply.
Return to Suggestions or the latest topics