Vanish change - Phoenix Freeshard

Please could you make a small change to vanish?

An assassin can (largely) pick and chose their fights, why should they have the luxury of literally attacking anything and then disappearing when it doesn't work out?

Please can you change it so that there is a check on attackers, or at least a check on enemies in 1k range? 1v1, it doesn't work, nobody else around, it doesn't work.

It's hard enough to get a fight as a visi without half the assassin population just wasting your time (and theirs) by booking as soon as it's not going well, if they don't want to fight, then they can choose not to in the first place.

Thanks.

Sun 14 Feb 2021 1:54 AM by Patron

Nope, a vanished sin is a lamb for 30 seconds after vanish.
Its part of survivability and mostly other adds inc, so its riggt as it is.

Sun 14 Feb 2021 3:33 AM by Nephamael

Removing vanish completely or following your suggestion would surely help the solo game immensely, maybe it would even bring back a few solo casters, who are against a 100% success rate for the sin vanishing, cause they stand at range when they win. - The 75% clean 1v1 vanishrate effectively denies a solo caster 65%+ of their solo RPs, not to speak of the frustration and fun decrease.

Sun 14 Feb 2021 3:56 AM by Elises

Agreed vanish need to be reviewed

Sun 14 Feb 2021 9:16 PM by soremir

Vanish 100% needs to be reviewed. It is the #1 reason that I've heard for visi soloers stopping playing from my experience, even more so than being runover by small- and 8-mans. A change to Vanish would be an amazing and welcome move.

Sun 14 Feb 2021 10:28 PM by Patron

what kind of easy players you know, that they stop because a sin vanished? Vanished noone kills, its not a imbalanced advantage, its just a last save for the sin.

Astaa wrote: An assassin can (largely) pick and chose their fights

Not true, other sins adding, a enemy comes around the corner or some grey add... a sin never can pick their fights

Astaa wrote: why should they have the luxury of literally attacking anything and then disappearing when it doesn't work out?

Because of low hp, low armor, because its part of the game since 18 years? HELLOOOO anybody home in your brain?

Astaa wrote: 1v1, it doesn't work, nobody else around, it doesn't work.

So it never working? You are a genius... not!

Nephamael wrote: maybe it would even bring back a few solo casters

Nope because there are duos, smallmen, 8er outside which kill every solo, no matter if caster or not.

Nephamael wrote: not to speak of the frustration and fun decrease.

The fun decrease comes not from a sin which vanishing, it comes from duos, smallmen, 8er, zergs...

Plz, dont hear on the loud and extremly small part of the community which try to speak up in forum to changing classes which are as they are since 18 years with dumb "arguments".
Vanish is what makes a Sin a Sin, relate to smoke bombs in ninja/ninjutusu folklore. This not change only 1 class in one realm, it change 3 classes in each realm.
Why players choose to play, lvl and template a Sin? Because they want enjoy the games of shadow and this include the possibility to escape in shadows when other enemys pop up.

Sun 14 Feb 2021 10:46 PM by ExcretusMaximus

soremir wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Feb 2021 9:16 PM
Vanish 100% needs to be reviewed. It is the #1 reason that I've heard for visi soloers stopping playing from my experience, even more so than being runover by small- and 8-mans. A change to Vanish would be an amazing and welcome move.

That's because when you go out solo you expect to be run over by greater numbers, it's a known downside. What isn't cool is some stealther deciding you're an easy target and then bailing once he realizes he was wrong. So you get a fight, blow all your CDs, and they get away leaving you with nothing and an easy mark for the next stealther to wreck.

Sun 14 Feb 2021 10:47 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Patron wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Feb 2021 10:28 PM
what kind of easy players you know, that they stop because a sin vanished? Vanished noone kills, its not a imbalanced advantage, its just a last save for the sin.

Aren't you Parole, in game?

Sun 14 Feb 2021 11:54 PM by soremir

Patron wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Feb 2021 10:28 PM
what kind of easy players you know, that they stop because a sin vanished? Vanished noone kills, its not a imbalanced advantage, its just a last save for the sin.

Astaa wrote: An assassin can (largely) pick and chose their fights
Not true, other sins adding, a enemy comes around the corner or some grey add... a sin never can pick their fights

Astaa wrote: why should they have the luxury of literally attacking anything and then disappearing when it doesn't work out?
Because of low hp, low armor, because its part of the game since 18 years? HELLOOOO anybody home in your brain?

Astaa wrote: 1v1, it doesn't work, nobody else around, it doesn't work.
So it never working? You are a genius... not!

Nephamael wrote: maybe it would even bring back a few solo casters

Nope because there are duos, smallmen, 8er outside which kill every solo, no matter if caster or not.

Nephamael wrote: not to speak of the frustration and fun decrease.
The fun decrease comes not from a sin which vanishing, it comes from duos, smallmen, 8er, zergs...

Plz, dont hear on the loud and extremly small part of the community which try to speak up in forum to changing classes which are as they are since 18 years with dumb "arguments".
Vanish is what makes a Sin a Sin, relate to smoke bombs in ninja/ninjutusu folklore. This not change only 1 class in one realm, it change 3 classes in each realm.
Why players choose to play, lvl and template a Sin? Because they want enjoy the games of shadow and this include the possibility to escape in shadows when other enemys pop up.

I can't help but chuckle at this post. It's pretty wild. I guess we all know what class this guy plays lol

Erectus nailed it though. That's exactly the problem. And I play a friar. What about for classes that can't cure disease, and just have to limp along for the next 2 minutes.

Mon 15 Feb 2021 12:26 AM by Patron

Thanks, i like writing pretty posts and i am kind of angry about foruminfluencer.
This need changed, thats because friends stop playing, wääääh my diaper is full...

I play NS, but just for fun. Today reach rr 5 in df and got tempt today. Im kind of noobish with NS, playing with venom 30 and vanish 4. Just for the lol and survivability. I prefer to miss a chance but staying alive, the way of a Sin.
But mostly playing supporter or my loved Heroine.

How long desease of healer, eld or shamy runs? Where the difference?

Mon 15 Feb 2021 2:03 AM by boridi

Patron wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Feb 2021 12:26 AM
How long desease of healer, eld or shamy runs? Where the difference?

Cabalist pet disease is 5 minutes...

Mon 15 Feb 2021 2:04 AM by boridi

soremir wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Feb 2021 11:54 PM
Erectus nailed it though.

Mon 15 Feb 2021 6:40 AM by Lollie

You don't need true sight to spot the sins in these types of threads

Mon 15 Feb 2021 7:41 AM by Rov

Change the RUT on vanish to 30 minutes and make it cost more ra points.
Make vanish have a 5 second delay like purge1, so they have to trigger vanish beforehand, this would give the visi a chance to kill them before they get into stealth.

Mon 15 Feb 2021 12:40 PM by boridi

ExcretusMaximus wrote:
soremir wrote: ↑
Sun 14 Feb 2021 9:16 PM
Vanish 100% needs to be reviewed. It is the #1 reason that I've heard for visi soloers stopping playing from my experience, even more so than being runover by small- and 8-mans. A change to Vanish would be an amazing and welcome move.

That's because when you go out solo you expect to be run over by greater numbers, it's a known downside. What isn't cool is some stealther deciding you're an easy target and then bailing once he realizes he was wrong. So you get a fight, blow all your CDs, and they get away leaving you with nothing and an easy mark for the next stealther to wreck.

The stealther also blew their RAs and is no good for 15 minutes (every stealther goes afk until vanish is back up according to antistealthers)

Mon 15 Feb 2021 1:20 PM by inoeth

main problem i see with vanish is that many ppl jump you and then disappear just to let their friends kill you so it is more used in a kind offensive way rather than a defensive which is the intention in the first place. there was a reason the OF vanish got reviewed and a disarm was added because infiltrator used it to double pa...

Mon 15 Feb 2021 2:23 PM by soremir

Yes, and I would say that because 1/3 of the Frontier populations are invisible cabalists camping every dock and choke point in the realm, the comparison of assassins with cabalists, healers, elds, and shamans is certainly a good-faith comparison.

Mon 15 Feb 2021 2:37 PM by DJ2000

I still hold the opinion that "Vanish" could be changed into:

Remove current Vanish 1/2/3/4/5.
Add 1 instance of Vanish for 10 RP (with the effect of current Vanish 3)
Requirement: Can be only activated after a kill, 1000r around the Asn, in a 5 sec. time frame. (or taking part in a Kill. Deathblow is not necessary)
Cooldown: 10 min.

Mon 15 Feb 2021 3:53 PM by easytoremember

If you're scared of double PA turn Vanish into a variation of Shadowstrike:

Vanish I / 450-600 Range / 15:00 RUT
Vanish II / 450-700 Range / 15:00 RUT
Vanish III / 450-850 Range / 15:00 RUT
Vanish IV / 450-1050 Range / 15:00 RUT
Vanish V / 450-1250 Range / 15:00 RUT

Vanish now requires a target. Upon use the assassin is placed into stealth before being ported in front of its target and performing a PA. Debuffs/Bleeds/DoTs are no longer removed by Vanish. Vanish no longer disarms the user.

"Vanish" from the perspective of anyone attacking the assassin still appears as so as their target drops for split second of stealth and the assassin disappears from their initial location

Mon 15 Feb 2021 4:42 PM by Astaa

I'm not scared of a double PA, I am just bored of sins jumping me then vanishing, they rarely come back for more. They should not be jumping a hero if they don't want to fight a hero, or if they do they should expect to lose...or at least have a good scrap. Vanish just makes any fight zero risk, they should assess the risk before engaging.

Current vanish, attack anything, opps made mistakes, oh well, bang that vanish!

Mon 15 Feb 2021 6:15 PM by DJ2000

easytoremember wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Feb 2021 3:53 PM
If you're scared of double PA turn Vanish into a variation of Shadowstrike:

I don't mind vanish being an escape tool, nor that Asn have access to it.

I don't see any benefit to change it to a shadowstrike-like ability.
But thats maybe just me.

Mon 15 Feb 2021 6:37 PM by leb

if you want to remove vanish, so we can remove sos for soloers or ignore pain (or limited to ip1 or ip2)

Mon 15 Feb 2021 9:08 PM by ExcretusMaximus

boridi wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Feb 2021 12:40 PM
The stealther also blew their RAs and is no good for 15 minutes (every stealther goes afk until vanish is back up according to antistealthers)

And he's able to stealth, getting away freely unless he sticks around in a high-traffic area, while the visible is now most-likely diseased and most importantly visible. There is no comparing the two situations. If you want to have Vanish as a get-away for adds, fine, but this popping on someone and realizing you fucked up and vanishing like a chickenshit is bull, and you know it. You got to choose the fight, eat your mistake.

Mon 15 Feb 2021 10:02 PM by Astaa

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Feb 2021 9:08 PM
boridi wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Feb 2021 12:40 PM
The stealther also blew their RAs and is no good for 15 minutes (every stealther goes afk until vanish is back up according to antistealthers)

And he's able to stealth, getting away freely unless he sticks around in a high-traffic area, while the visible is now most-likely diseased and most importantly visible. There is no comparing the two situations. If you want to have Vanish as a get-away for adds, fine, but this popping on someone and realizing you fucked up and vanishing like a chickenshit is bull, and you know it. You got to choose the fight, eat your mistake.

My point exactly. If I mess up in a fight, I die, if an assassin messes up, oh well, never mind, vanish, back to hunting stragglers/easy targets.

People keep complaining about the amount of assassins on the server, but it appears the only viable way of playing solo is to play an assassin, with all the pick a fight, vanish if it goes badly nonsense that goes with that.

I've literally had a resident big balls assassin unstealth, chase after me, get absolutely walloped and vanish, what was the point, they weren't going to win so why bother?

Mon 15 Feb 2021 10:07 PM by BPICKEREL

Playing a stealther and now a visi, I have mixed emotions on vanish. I personally never invested the points, but would have loved to have it when youre fighting a fair 1v1 and people add to kill, leaving you with zero rps. On the other hand, not fair for visi tanks winning a 1v1 with stealther, more than likely the stealther jumped the tank and got the beat down.

Can we make it so vanish only works if there are 2+ enemies in the area? Also Get rid of stealth lore pots And increase timer to 30 minutes so it’s not overly used.

Mon 15 Feb 2021 10:10 PM by Astaa

BPICKEREL wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Feb 2021 10:07 PM
Playing a stealther and now a visi, I have mixed emotions on vanish. I personally never invested the points, but would have loved to have it when youre fighting a fair 1v1 and people add to kill, leaving you with zero rps. On the other hand, not fair for visi tanks winning a 1v1 with stealther, more than likely the stealther jumped the tank and got the beat down.

Can we make it so vanish only works if there are 2+ enemies in the area? Also Get rid of stealth lore pots And increase timer to 30 minutes so it’s not overly used.

To bring me back to my starting post

Make vanish work only when there are more than one attackers, or if there are more than one enemies within 1k range.

Tue 16 Feb 2021 8:39 AM by inoeth

leb wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Feb 2021 6:37 PM
if you want to remove vanish, so we can remove sos for soloers or ignore pain (or limited to ip1 or ip2)

sure if we all get that 600 hp reduce poison lol

Wed 17 Feb 2021 5:11 PM by pzeub

That's true; remove vanish from assassin and give them IP or even Reflex Attack? What about static tempest; WoC, Ichor, SoS?
Vanish is to escape from zerg, not from fair fights (the majority).

Wed 17 Feb 2021 8:08 PM by keen

At least give the person the rp equivalent for the DMG dealt to the sin. Would take the frustration out.

Wed 17 Feb 2021 9:50 PM by Patron

So much noobs. Vanish is for zergs not for 1v1... muahaha
unbelievable

Just let vanish as its been since 16 years and we´re all good.
Really no need for changes and broke a whole archetype!

Thu 18 Feb 2021 5:15 PM by joshisanonymous

I admit, I hate getting vanished on, and it happens often despite the 15 minute timer, but I'm not sure it needs to be changed. If anything, maybe make the lowest levels be regular stealth instead of super-stealth so that it requires more investment to be a more reliable escape? I don't know. It's pretty class defining, and some even use it offensively, so despite how frustrating it is to get jumped and then vanished on, it's still really hard to nerf it or remove it.

Fri 19 Feb 2021 7:32 AM by Sepplord

how does anyone use it offensively?

It completely shuts down your abilities for 30seconds after using it

Fri 19 Feb 2021 2:25 PM by joshisanonymous

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 19 Feb 2021 7:32 AM
how does anyone use it offensively?

It completely shuts down your abilities for 30seconds after using it

Right, and then you reengage after those 30 seconds are up. I've had it happen to me, so I know it happens.

Fri 19 Feb 2021 3:44 PM by Blitze

The vanish and stalk your diseased foe is an offensive trick...
But that makes me dislike the 20 minute disease duration much more (Cure disease is a godsend & I miss it so when I solo on non-Friar)

Really, it’s the vanish from a 1v1 (that the stealth choose to initiate) when they are losing that gets my goat the most.

If Phoenix was like at other patch lvls/servers and there were quite a few classes that were near impossible for stealths to beat. Then I’d probably be fine with it... but as stealths have a decent chance against anyone here. It’s an annoying RA.