Increase the realm ability cost to 10 and increase the cool down to 30 min. It’s way too op and needs a nerf. No class should have such a cheap get out of jail free card. Frankly no class should have one at all.
Vanish.
Started 23 May 2019
by
Sektor
in
Suggestions
Thu 23 May 2019 11:08 PM
by
Animosity
TLDR:
Another stealth whine thread.
Another stealth whine thread.
Thu 23 May 2019 11:21 PM
by
Animosity
Funny considering all he does is run out in front of apk every half hour and lays there dead and afk. Not even playing just “leveling”
Thu 23 May 2019 11:36 PM
by
Turano
there is a counter to vanish, it's called Potion of Lucidity.Sektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 10:52 PMIncrease the realm ability cost to 10 and increase the cool down to 30 min. It’s way too op and needs a nerf. No class should have such a cheap get out of jail free card. Frankly no class should have one at all.
Where is the counter to SoS?
and what exactly does make vanish op?
Thu 23 May 2019 11:36 PM
by
Sektor
Animosity wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 11:21 PM
Funny considering all he does is run out in front of apk every half hour and lays there dead and afk. Not even playing just “leveling”
Didn’t realize I had so many triggered stealther fanbois. Feels good. Regardless vanish needs a nerf. Period.
Thu 23 May 2019 11:38 PM
by
Sektor
Turano wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 11:36 PMthere is a counter to vanish, it's called Potion of Lucidity.Sektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 10:52 PMIncrease the realm ability cost to 10 and increase the cool down to 30 min. It’s way too op and needs a nerf. No class should have such a cheap get out of jail free card. Frankly no class should have one at all.
Where is the counter to SoS?
and what exactly does make vanish op?
Ok make the potion craftable by alchemists and not cost Phoenix claws and we have a deal.
Thu 23 May 2019 11:39 PM
by
Bumbles
Here comes all the Stealthers who will complain about anything they can't kill BUT don't you dare talk about doing anything to their toons! Sacrilege!
Thu 23 May 2019 11:44 PM
by
Dramead
I feel that vanish needs more then just a time adjustment .. I think if there is 1 enemy within 500 units vanish should fail 20% of the time .. if 2 enemies are in range then 40%. 3 = 60% .. ect ect .
You can NOT nerf the one reliable anti stealth ra in the game ( reflex attack ) and not nerf assassins .. They have no real counter anymore ..
You can NOT nerf the one reliable anti stealth ra in the game ( reflex attack ) and not nerf assassins .. They have no real counter anymore ..
Fri 24 May 2019 12:08 AM
by
Turano
I don't even care, if you want it nerfed then try to bring arguments why you think it should be nerfed.
Just saying it is OP is not an argument.
If I were an Infil or SB and could get instant action in emain without having to walk 7 minutes every time I probably wouldn't even skill it.
Just saying it is OP is not an argument.
If I were an Infil or SB and could get instant action in emain without having to walk 7 minutes every time I probably wouldn't even skill it.
Fri 24 May 2019 12:13 AM
by
Turano
when was reflex attack ever an anti stealther ra? It works against every meele attack, not just stealthers.Dramead wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 11:44 PMI feel that vanish needs more then just a time adjustment .. I think if there is 1 enemy within 500 units vanish should fail 20% of the time .. if 2 enemies are in range then 40%. 3 = 60% .. ect ect .
You can NOT nerf the one reliable anti stealth ra in the game ( reflex attack ) and not nerf assassins .. They have no real counter anymore ..
And you know what happens to rr5+ friars? They get either ignored or zerged. Not much of a counter if you ask me.
I'ld like to have the classic vanish, no super stealth, no speed, but no disarm and silence either. Then you can use it both defensive and offensive, depending on the situation but you could not just escape out of a meele situation with it
Fri 24 May 2019 1:27 AM
by
gotwqqd
Longer cooldown? yes
But what is really needed is the option for other classes to raise stealth detection with a combination of stats and pricy RA’s.
To what extent? Or if the detection comes with a delay? That would need to be determined.
But above all else....same realm stealth within some predetermined distance results in increased detection for their enemies
But what is really needed is the option for other classes to raise stealth detection with a combination of stats and pricy RA’s.
To what extent? Or if the detection comes with a delay? That would need to be determined.
But above all else....same realm stealth within some predetermined distance results in increased detection for their enemies
Fri 24 May 2019 7:02 AM
by
Gorgoroth
Vanish is fine as it is. Everyone is adding like crazy here, so vanish is at least sometimes a nice way of waving "bye bye" to those hungry RP parasites 
Fri 24 May 2019 7:22 AM
by
Sepplord
Sektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 11:36 PMDidn’t realize I had so many triggered stealther fanbois. Feels good. Regardless vanish needs a nerf. Period.
Sektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 4:06 PMI’ll save the points and go mop and aug dex. Should still rip assassins
Sektor wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 3:17 AMyea I just deleted the friar. If I wanted a healer I would have made a cleric.
Yeah, clearly the stealthers are the ones triggered
Fri 24 May 2019 7:51 AM
by
Hejjin
My vanish proposal : If the only enemy within 3000 units is the assassin's opponent; the assassin is unable to activate vanish. Assassins claim to want 1 v 1 fights, but the reality is that they only want 1 v 1 when the odds are in their favour, in the majority of cases, as soon as they start to lose, they vanish. This happened many times on my Friar prior to me taking RA5. This change would ONLY impact 1 v 1 fights and would not change anything else about vanish.
Now I expect to hear the complaints from the assassins...
Now I expect to hear the complaints from the assassins...
Fri 24 May 2019 10:30 AM
by
Sepplord
Hejjin wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 7:51 AMMy vanish proposal : If the only enemy within 3000 units is the assassin's opponent; the assassin is unable to activate vanish. Assassins claim to want 1 v 1 fights, but the reality is that they only want 1 v 1 when the odds are in their favour, in the majority of cases, as soon as they start to lose, they vanish. This happened many times on my Friar prior to me taking RA5. This change would ONLY impact 1 v 1 fights and would not change anything else about vanish.
Now I expect to hear the complaints from the assassins...
If you include something to make it available after the assassin has killed an enemy i don't see a huge problem with that proposal. Dunno how viable it is technically though...and considering all the bugs with vanish i am unsure if further complicating it's use would really work that well. But gameplay wise i wouldn't have a problem with that.
Assassin players aren't really different from other players. Some want a challenge, some don't. And even the ones that want a challenge, don't want to lose, so if there is a button where they can turn a loss into a draw if they are lucky and get away, then ofcourse most will push it.
All other classes would do that too.
People have suicided into Mobs before losing a 1vs1 too...they take a gold hit just to reduce the enemies RP. But when an assassin uses his escape button, that is somehow morally reprehensible?
Fri 24 May 2019 11:45 AM
by
phixion
Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 7:22 AMSektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 11:36 PMDidn’t realize I had so many triggered stealther fanbois. Feels good. Regardless vanish needs a nerf. Period.Sektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 4:06 PMI’ll save the points and go mop and aug dex. Should still rip assassinsSektor wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 3:17 AMyea I just deleted the friar. If I wanted a healer I would have made a cleric.
Yeah, clearly the stealthers are the ones triggered
Check his post history, guy came along 3 months after the server launched and is seemingly doing his best to piss as many people off as possible, whining about everything imaginable.
This latest whine is purely in response to RA being fixed and him being annoyed (he plays a Friar). He seems to be a flip flopper, changing class on a whim. I wouldn't be surprised if he gives up on his Friar now RA has been sorted out.
Fri 24 May 2019 11:58 AM
by
Hejjin
I have zero problems with that change and yes I am aware of the current issues with vanish and how problematical it could be to achieve it.Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:30 AMIf you include something to make it available after the assassin has killed an enemy i don't see a huge problem with that proposal. Dunno how viable it is technically though...and considering all the bugs with vanish i am unsure if further complicating it's use would really work that well. But gameplay wise i wouldn't have a problem with that.
I agree, but the reality is that most other classes do not have that ability, nor do they have the ability to (mostly) pick and choose when and where they fight.Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:30 AMAssassin players aren't really different from other players. Some want a challenge, some don't. And even the ones that want a challenge, don't want to lose, so if there is a button where they can turn a loss into a draw if they are lucky and get away, then ofcourse most will push it.
All other classes would do that too.
Suicide by mob achieves almost nothing on here, and even on live back in the day it was never something I had any interest in. Please show me a post of mine where I said it was "morally reprehensible" for assassins to vanish in 1 v 1 fights?Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:30 AMPeople have suicided into Mobs before losing a 1vs1 too...they take a gold hit just to reduce the enemies RP. But when an assassin uses his escape button, that is somehow morally reprehensible?
Fri 24 May 2019 12:24 PM
by
Turano
How about that idea: make vanish a passive ability that gets an assassin out of fight faster after a kill/deathblow (maybe 2 or 3 second) so they can avoid adds after fights better
Fri 24 May 2019 12:44 PM
by
Lillebror
On classic it was something equal, Infs got a stealth detection after a kill, SB or NS got faster speed and last i dont remember.
Passive Vanish ability that let you stealth in 5 seconds instead of 10 sounds sounds cool twist for it
Passive Vanish ability that let you stealth in 5 seconds instead of 10 sounds sounds cool twist for it
Fri 24 May 2019 12:59 PM
by
Turano
In classic Infils got vanish on a 30 minute timer that had no disarm so you could vanish > PA in fightLillebror wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 12:44 PMOn classic it was something equal, Infs got a stealth detection after a kill, SB or NS got faster speed and last i dont remember.
Passive Vanish ability that let you stealth in 5 seconds instead of 10 sounds sounds cool twist for it
I think SB 's got shadow run which was useless and ns had viper on 30 minute timer that doubled all dot damage for some seconds
For the passive vanish that could be done in stages and remove more seconds from the timer the higher it is skilled
Fri 24 May 2019 1:11 PM
by
Sepplord
Hejjin wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 11:58 AMI have zero problems with that change and yes I am aware of the current issues with vanish and how problematical it could be to achieve it.Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:30 AMIf you include something to make it available after the assassin has killed an enemy i don't see a huge problem with that proposal. Dunno how viable it is technically though...and considering all the bugs with vanish i am unsure if further complicating it's use would really work that well. But gameplay wise i wouldn't have a problem with that.I agree, but the reality is that most other classes do not have that ability, nor do they have the ability to (mostly) pick and choose when and where they fight.Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:30 AMAssassin players aren't really different from other players. Some want a challenge, some don't. And even the ones that want a challenge, don't want to lose, so if there is a button where they can turn a loss into a draw if they are lucky and get away, then ofcourse most will push it.
All other classes would do that too.Suicide by mob achieves almost nothing on here, and even on live back in the day it was never something I had any interest in. Please show me a post of mine where I said it was "morally reprehensible" for assassins to vanish in 1 v 1 fights?Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 10:30 AMPeople have suicided into Mobs before losing a 1vs1 too...they take a gold hit just to reduce the enemies RP. But when an assassin uses his escape button, that is somehow morally reprehensible?
Fri 24 May 2019 3:09 PM
by
Sektor
phixion wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 11:45 AMSepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 7:22 AMSektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 11:36 PMDidn’t realize I had so many triggered stealther fanbois. Feels good. Regardless vanish needs a nerf. Period.Sektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 4:06 PMI’ll save the points and go mop and aug dex. Should still rip assassinsSektor wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 3:17 AMyea I just deleted the friar. If I wanted a healer I would have made a cleric.
Yeah, clearly the stealthers are the ones triggered
Check his post history, guy came along 3 months after the server launched and is seemingly doing his best to piss as many people off as possible, whining about everything imaginable.
This latest whine is purely in response to RA being fixed and him being annoyed (he plays a Friar). He seems to be a flip flopper, changing class on a whim. I wouldn't be surprised if he gives up on his Friar now RA has been sorted out.
Do I need to get a restraining order against you? This is the third time you stalked a thread of mine to say the same thing.... perhaps you should seek counseling.
Tue 28 May 2019 5:00 PM
by
nyght999
Vanish still isn't working right, pets still see you even after using vanish. Needs fixed still.
Wed 29 May 2019 7:27 AM
by
Sepplord
Mobs too sometimes stay locked on, despite you being outside their detection range / and during superstealth
Wed 29 May 2019 7:52 AM
by
Lillebror
BD commander is bugged still too. He go after ppl that manage to stealth at some distance (not linked to Vanish)
Thu 30 May 2019 9:26 PM
by
Sektor
Plz adjust vanish greatly thankx.
I don’t want to have to roll another stealthier when my time out is over.
I don’t want to have to roll another stealthier when my time out is over.
Mon 3 Jun 2019 5:53 PM
by
phixion
Sektor wrote: ↑Thu 30 May 2019 9:26 PMPlz adjust vanish greatly thankx.
I don’t want to have to roll another stealthier when my time out is over.
No. Fix vanish first, let people play with a 100% working vanish, then maybe talk about nerfing it 6 months down the line.
Mon 3 Jun 2019 6:19 PM
by
Kappu
Seems to be working just fine in this video
https://clips.twitch.tv/AltruisticImpartialEyeballAliens
https://clips.twitch.tv/AltruisticImpartialEyeballAliens
Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:19 PM
by
Cadebrennus
There is an easy fix to Vanish. Make it usable only after a successful kill. That way the RA fulfills its original purpose without being a Wilsoning tool when a fight turns against an Assassin.
Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:26 PM
by
Pirhana7
I played from both sides and can tell you vanish has its purpose but it also has its cheapness, But some of use came up with a decent solution.
Purpose: You 1v1 someone, then someone else adds on you and now you are at a great disadvantage of 2v1
Purpose: You kill an enemy 1v1 but before you can stealth an 8man roll sup on you...
Cheapness: You start a 1v1 fight, then vanish because your target isn't an easy kill.
Solution: There are 2 separate requirements that only one of must be met for vanish to be useable.
(1) You can only use vanish if 2 or more enemies are currently attacking you.
(2) An enemy target that you did damage to has died in the last 10 seconds.
Purpose: You 1v1 someone, then someone else adds on you and now you are at a great disadvantage of 2v1
Purpose: You kill an enemy 1v1 but before you can stealth an 8man roll sup on you...
Cheapness: You start a 1v1 fight, then vanish because your target isn't an easy kill.
Solution: There are 2 separate requirements that only one of must be met for vanish to be useable.
(1) You can only use vanish if 2 or more enemies are currently attacking you.
(2) An enemy target that you did damage to has died in the last 10 seconds.
Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:31 PM
by
Pirhana7
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:19 PMThere is an easy fix to Vanish. Make it usable only after a successful kill. That way the RA fulfills its original purpose without being a Wilsoning tool when a fight turns against an Assassin.
That was one idea but it also need to be usable if a 2nd or 3rd enemy add on you because they will kill you before you get the kill to be able to vanish
Tue 4 Jun 2019 2:35 AM
by
Cadebrennus
Pirhana7 wrote: ↑Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:31 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:19 PMThere is an easy fix to Vanish. Make it usable only after a successful kill. That way the RA fulfills its original purpose without being a Wilsoning tool when a fight turns against an Assassin.
That was one idea but it also need to be usable if a 2nd or 3rd enemy add on you because they will kill you before you get the kill to be able to vanish
That means the Assassin didn't pick the right target and they deserve to die.
Tue 4 Jun 2019 5:56 AM
by
Cadebrennus
That's a few things;
1) Assassins always having the upper hand due to Envenom - game designer's fault
2) Most Archers speccing absolute shit for melee, then whining that they suck in melee - player's fault
3) Archer counters to Assassins being willfully and gleefully nerfed (no MOS as an RA, no PD, etc.) - Phoenix staff's fault
4) Archer players having no idea how to actually push whatever melee capabilities their class actually has to even a middling level - players' fault (my recommendation: get good on a Visi melee class before really trying the melee route on an Archer)
Very few Archers are crazy enough to actually try to melee down a target from 100% to zero. I was one of the few crazy enough to do it, and one of the few with enough experience playing a melee class 100% of the time before going Archer 100% of the time, thereby knowing HOW to actually push melee capabilities to it's maximum.
Now, all that being said, an Assassin has nearly a 100% chance to pick their battles, unless they're a complete moron and stand directly in the middle of the road/MG gates/whatever (you people know who you are). Because of that then yes, if an Assassin didn't pick the right target then they deserve to die.
So no, we can't apply the same logic to an Archer whining about their melee unless they are a complete moron, because as you can see it's a far more complicated issue than your little quip makes it out to be. You do get a C- for at least attempting to be clever though. Maybe even a trophy.
Tue 4 Jun 2019 6:31 AM
by
Sepplord
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 4 Jun 2019 2:35 AMPirhana7 wrote: ↑Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:31 PMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:19 PMThere is an easy fix to Vanish. Make it usable only after a successful kill. That way the RA fulfills its original purpose without being a Wilsoning tool when a fight turns against an Assassin.
That was one idea but it also need to be usable if a 2nd or 3rd enemy add on you because they will kill you before you get the kill to be able to vanish
That means the Assassin didn't pick the right target and they deserve to die.
That makes everything really easy:
Next time an assassin vanishes on you, just say to yourself: i picked the wrong way to run / target to fight and then suddenly you can be mad at yourself and not at vanish anymore
and before you rattle down your bullshit about picking fights almost 100% of the time...that's just not true. And i can stand in a no-traffic area on my visibles just as well as on an assassin. Nothing happens to either of them and both go home without having died. If that'S the goal successs....but i play to fight stuff not to hide in a corner for hours and then pat myself that i managed to not die all night
Tue 4 Jun 2019 7:03 AM
by
Cadebrennus
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 4 Jun 2019 6:31 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 4 Jun 2019 2:35 AMPirhana7 wrote: ↑Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:31 PMThat was one idea but it also need to be usable if a 2nd or 3rd enemy add on you because they will kill you before you get the kill to be able to vanish
That means the Assassin didn't pick the right target and they deserve to die.
That makes everything really easy:
Next time an assassin vanishes on you, just say to yourself: i picked the wrong way to run / target to fight and then suddenly you can be mad at yourself and not at vanish anymore
and before you rattle down your bullshit about picking fights almost 100% of the time...that's just not true. And i can stand in a no-traffic area on my visibles just as well as on an assassin. Nothing happens to either of them and both go home without having died. If that'S the goal successs....but i play to fight stuff not to hide in a corner for hours and then pat myself that i managed to not die all night
Wow dude. I'm really really disappointed in you. For the most part you've been both reasonable and coherent right up until this point, and then you blow it with this load of horseshit. Hopefully you will redeem yourself in the posts to come. I have faith in you.
Tue 4 Jun 2019 7:07 AM
by
Sepplord
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 4 Jun 2019 7:03 AMSepplord wrote: ↑Tue 4 Jun 2019 6:31 AMCadebrennus wrote: ↑Tue 4 Jun 2019 2:35 AMThat means the Assassin didn't pick the right target and they deserve to die.
That makes everything really easy:
Next time an assassin vanishes on you, just say to yourself: i picked the wrong way to run / target to fight and then suddenly you can be mad at yourself and not at vanish anymore
and before you rattle down your bullshit about picking fights almost 100% of the time...that's just not true. And i can stand in a no-traffic area on my visibles just as well as on an assassin. Nothing happens to either of them and both go home without having died. If that'S the goal successs....but i play to fight stuff not to hide in a corner for hours and then pat myself that i managed to not die all night
Wow dude. I'm really really disappointed in you. For the most part you've been both reasonable and coherent right up until this point, and then you blow it with this load of horseshit. Hopefully you will redeem yourself in the posts to come. I have faith in you.
Yeah, you're right. That text would have probably been a better response to your own load of horseshit
Instead of replying with an equally horseshit comment
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