The realm rank problem - Phoenix Freeshard

It's November 1st. The server is not even 1 year old yet but yet there are 149 people realm rank 10 or higher.

The problem:

-Realm points were awarded like wellfare and the fix for farming keeps/doors/guards wasn't implemented until now
-With NNF RAs, the highest rank groups are nearly un-killable due to their toys
-With NNF RAs, everybody and their uncle in the zerg has a million active RAs to blow. Single groups can't target zergs like they could with OF RAs
-New players face an immense up hill battle now that calculations to give out RPs have been reduced

The solution?

Wipe the realm rank of everybody. Let players keep everything but reset ranks to 0. Create a "trophy room" where the current ranks achieved can be stored and maybe converted to titles. Give everybody the enthusiasm of a "fresh start" without having to grind a single level. Give players that quit when everything abruptly changed a reason to come back and reinfuse this server with life again. Cut the participation rps out of the game entirely after your char reaches rr6.

What happens if we do nothing?

The server continues a slow trickle downward. NA time is being pinched hard, and as players continue to leave, groups continue to miss those extra few players needed to run, and the downward spiral continues. Are we content to let the same trend that haunted prior shards haunt us here? The rr gap is a serious issue considering how fast you get rps here. Please don't do nothing. Save the last daoc freeshard that we have

Sat 2 Nov 2019 12:47 AM by ExcretusMaximus

The server is dead for anything but ZvZ, just like Live was 5 years ago.

Sat 2 Nov 2019 1:02 AM by Freedomcall

It's kinda funny to see some few ppl on forum asking for RR wipe while nobody in-game asks for it.
Well, RR wipe *might* help for healthier server, but I'm not sure majority of the ppl would be happy for it.
Have you talked about this idea with ppl in game?

Sat 2 Nov 2019 1:26 AM by Riac

you want ppl to quit playing (the ppl that actually play this game), go ahead and take their RR away lol

Sat 2 Nov 2019 9:27 AM by Lipsi

Hector wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Nov 2019 12:45 AM
The problem:-New players face an immense up hill battle now that calculations to give out RPs have been reduced

I don't feel so, RPS gain is very fast. With a 3h/d playtime dedicated to RVR, you could reasonably reach rr6 in a month and rr7 in less than 2. For a totally new player i mean. That will stick to zerg and PUGs until he gets a name and friends and some rank.

The solution?
Wipe the realm rank of everybody. Let players keep everything but reset ranks to 0. Create a "trophy room" where the current ranks achieved can be stored and maybe converted to titles.

What's the point of that title ? You'd compare different timeframes and have the same issue of new players not given the chance and time to get it =) At least you can fill the gap in RR, but you'll never be given the chance again to get the title ?

What happens if we do nothing?
The rr gap is a serious issue considering how fast you get rps here.

I remember on live, almost 15 years ago, being offered a place in a fixed team of RR11-12 with a new character and daily roam in the fixed team. In litteraly no time i was rr10.
It's up to the players to PL RP their new members, it can be something you do for the realm or for your guild, or a friend. As you said, 149 players with rr10+, they sure need renewal in their teams like everybody does.

Besides, the rr gap isn't a so serious issue, as said above, rr7 in achievable in less than 2 months. RR7 team doesnt stand a chance vs RR10 team, i agree with that, but it's not like all the roaming teams you meet were all RR10. Actually many of the highest RR players are not playing anymore and the vast majority of highest RPS gains this week and last week are from players with RR range from 6-9

Sat 2 Nov 2019 12:22 PM by gotwqqd

A lack of title is going to deter playing? Hardly
It’s the lack of competitive balance

Sun 3 Nov 2019 10:18 AM by Killaloth

Lipsi wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Nov 2019 9:27 AM
RR7 team doesnt stand a chance vs RR10 team, i agree with that.

Disagree. Dark Dawn kicked asses on all realms since rr3, last proof Albion, regardless of other ppl rank.

Last week a well played trio of cleric-mini-reaver around rr3-4 was kicking asses too (Nektaria, Nektarius and I don't remember the cleric name).

You can reset rank but you can't reset people skill.

Most of people that zerg or coastguard do so as they don't know how to win equal number VS equal number.

Hoping that a RR reset will address the issue is delusional.

Personally I wouldn't mind/care about a RR reset but it's not going so solve anything.

Sun 3 Nov 2019 10:40 AM by Goforit

Hector wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Nov 2019 12:45 AM
Wipe the realm rank of everybody. Let players keep everything but reset ranks to 0. Create a "trophy room" where the current ranks achieved can be stored and maybe converted to titles. Give everybody the enthusiasm of a "fresh start" without having to grind a single level. Give players that quit when everything abruptly changed a reason to come back and reinfuse this server with life again. Cut the participation rps out of the game entirely after your char reaches rr6.

LOL. If I had high rr, i would stop immediately afterwards. Most stupid idea ever.

Sun 3 Nov 2019 10:50 AM by Goforit

Maybe its just normal that population drops. Make the best of it. You wont be able to play here forever.

Sun 3 Nov 2019 12:31 PM by Chaskha

I have several low ranks because I rolled a ton of characters, did PL guildies, did a lot of instances too. I do not login and go RvR straight for 3 hours.
I would very much dislike a reset of my characters, I honestly would enjoy much more that a system would take my low rank in account and boost the gain when my group or myself kill things.

We all moan about a wellfare system but it is here to counter only one thing: the people spending 8h/d doing RvR being the only high ranks pawning 3Ls forever.

Not to mention a friend who also spend a lot of time helping the guild and decided to focus on only one RvR character to get a high rank. Reset him? I'm 90% sure he would stop the game.

I think a boost is a better option to grind and fill the gap faster. Something like a multiplier of your RP gains that would ding at server restart, big if you are rank 2, average if rank 8, low between 9 and 10 and 1 after 10 ?

Sun 3 Nov 2019 4:26 PM by thirian24

Chaskha wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Nov 2019 12:31 PM
I would very much dislike a reset of my characters, I honestly would enjoy much more that a system would take my low rank in account and boost the gain when my group or myself kill things.

This already exists in the game.

Sun 3 Nov 2019 8:57 PM by easytoremember

Way too many 50's for how short the server has been alive need reset not fair to new players I know gm will do right thing tank for reading kisses

Sun 3 Nov 2019 11:12 PM by cuuchulain79

Lipsi wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Nov 2019 9:27 AM
Besides, the rr gap isn't a so serious issue, as said above, rr7 in achievable in less than 2 months.

Stop thinking like a Phoenix regular, and think about this statement related to a casual persons time...

Around launch, it took a minimal investment of time, to make a new, competitive character.

Now, it takes hundreds of hours to make a new, competitive character.

While true, some talented people can do well on RR4 characters, most people won't like being farmed by people 6-8RRs above them, and have the tenacity to stick around.

As much as the staff seemed to try and keep "ability bloat" in check, "RP bloat" has gone on behind the scenes, and now the time investment to play here has increased dramatically since launch.

It seems like the amount of free RP are being reduced, and I'm sure the day will come when a wipe of some kind is the next logical step for Phoenix. Which is a shame for such a young server...but 'free and easy' only maintains interest so long....and I think now, when the time investment to be competitive here is longer than it was on Uth2, Phoenix has hit that point.

Sun 3 Nov 2019 11:45 PM by ExcretusMaximus

There will always be people who play more and/or are better than the masses; resetting things won't help anything in the long term.

Sun 3 Nov 2019 11:50 PM by Chaskha

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Nov 2019 4:26 PM
Chaskha wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Nov 2019 12:31 PM
I would very much dislike a reset of my characters, I honestly would enjoy much more that a system would take my low rank in account and boost the gain when my group or myself kill things.

This already exists in the game.

I know, my suggestion is adjusting the curve.

Mon 4 Nov 2019 7:29 AM by Sepplord

Chaskha wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Nov 2019 11:50 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Nov 2019 4:26 PM
Chaskha wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Nov 2019 12:31 PM
I would very much dislike a reset of my characters, I honestly would enjoy much more that a system would take my low rank in account and boost the gain when my group or myself kill things.

This already exists in the game.
I know, my suggestion is adjusting the curve.

a slower curve benefits the all-day-players even more though....

and there has been no downwards trend in RP being given out. IF you mean the keeptask change, that has a) been reverted and b) since their changes it seems as if participation RP has gone up

Mon 4 Nov 2019 8:33 AM by Lipsi

cuuchulain79 wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Nov 2019 11:12 PM
Stop thinking like a Phoenix regular, and think about this statement related to a casual persons time...

That is inherent to all MMORPG where there is character progression : the more playtime you get, the stronger your character will become. A reset of RR won't solve that, because after 2 months again some will have bigger play time and stronger characters.

The only 2 solutions to this are :
- 1 - totally stop character progression at a certain point : this has always been in DAOC, at first was rr10 then rr12 then rr13 or 14 idk i've stopped live at that time.
- 2 - make the progression curve very fast at first then almost flat : this has always been in DAOC too, if we look at say 12million RPS, they will propulse you from 1L0 to 11L4 giving 104 points to spend in RA, while the next 12million RPS will get you from 11L4 to 12L with an overwhelming 6 addional points to spend.

Eventually, because some players favor a system with an easier to reach progression cap, rather than the high end content, DAOC even has built-in /xp off /rp off commands, and battlegrounds limited to lvl 24 rr3 for them to play with.

edit : actually forgot the 3rd solution that was also implemented in live DAOC : automatic and offline progression, for casual players to catch up. This was limited to XP tho and not RPS. Here we have a better suggestion for casual players than serverwide rr reset : it would be an account wide buff to XP/RPS gains which strenght grows over time as you stay offline and wears off progressively as you are online.

Mon 4 Nov 2019 11:33 AM by Chaskha

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Nov 2019 7:29 AM
Chaskha wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Nov 2019 11:50 PM
thirian24 wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Nov 2019 4:26 PM
This already exists in the game.
I know, my suggestion is adjusting the curve.

a slower curve benefits the all-day-players even more though....

and there has been no downwards trend in RP being given out. IF you mean the keeptask change, that has a) been reverted and b) since their changes it seems as if participation RP has gone up

Actually I would go for a faster curve until 9L or something.
Very fast, like RPsOfTheDay x 4 until 4L
Fast, like RPsOfTheDay x 3 until 7L
Medium fast, like RPsOfTheDay x 2 until 9L

That could be adjusted, tweaked and it's already in place, just not that drastic.

It will not change the fact that some teams are super skilled and will roll over anyone, it will not change much to the zerg fest but it will give the new players or rerolls, a boost to catch with the top tier while still letting an advantage to the all-day-grinders.

Mon 4 Nov 2019 11:52 AM by Sepplord

While i believe it would help overall...i personally noticed in the beginning of the server with the phoenix-tasksystems is one problem.
It makes the increases in the RR-curve feel even worse. Not only do you need much more RP to reach the next level, you also get far less than last rank because custom-bonus X was reduced again.
It gets to a point where it can turn people away even faster or only catch them for shortterm fast progression and then lose them.

It's not as simple as throwing more RP-gains at low RRs, although the downsides are less visible compared to the benefits

Mon 4 Nov 2019 2:16 PM by thirian24

You guys are wild.

They've given us easy ways to lvl, easy ways to obtain feather items that would otherwise be very hard to come by. Crafting is easy, farming coin is easy. It's ALL been made easier for us to reach the main goal of the game, and that's RvR.

Now, with that being said, they've even made it easier to wade through the lower realm ranks to stay competitive. Everyone seems to think that "Well if I was rr9-10 I'd be as good as these other guys too and I could compete with them. WRONG!! Just because you're rr10 doesn't mean you're going to be any better of a player.

I routinely fight people that are rr9-11 that have keep humped their way to high RR, that are completely garbage. They don't know how to play their class at all. So their RR means nothing. Giving people more RPs to stay competitive will just lead to more players that have no idea what they are doing out there... but hey... at least they are rr10 Lol.

You will always have the people who grind hard to achieve something faster than other people in these games. Just because you play 4 hours a week doesn't mean you should have the same RR as the people who put in the time investment. If that's were the case, just give everybody i50 and free rr14 like on beta.

TLDR; You still won't be any good at this game with high RR because you're not any good to begin with.

I hope this helps. 🤣

Mon 4 Nov 2019 6:10 PM by Roto23

I would quit in a heart beat if they did a rr reset. I agree that they should try something to stop the decline.

Tue 5 Nov 2019 12:57 AM by Killaloth

thirian24 wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Nov 2019 2:16 PM
You guys are wild.

They've given us easy ways to lvl, easy ways to obtain feather items that would otherwise be very hard to come by. Crafting is easy, farming coin is easy. It's ALL been made easier for us to reach the main goal of the game, and that's RvR.

Now, with that being said, they've even made it easier to wade through the lower realm ranks to stay competitive. Everyone seems to think that "Well if I was rr9-10 I'd be as good as these other guys too and I could compete with them. WRONG!! Just because you're rr10 doesn't mean you're going to be any better of a player.

I routinely fight people that are rr9-11 that have keep humped their way to high RR, that are completely garbage. They don't know how to play their class at all. So their RR means nothing. Giving people more RPs to stay competitive will just lead to more players that have no idea what they are doing out there... but hey... at least they are rr10 Lol.

You will always have the people who grind hard to achieve something faster than other people in these games. Just because you play 4 hours a week doesn't mean you should have the same RR as the people who put in the time investment. If that's were the case, just give everybody i50 and free rr14 like on beta.

TLDR; You still won't be any good at this game with high RR because you're not any good to begin with.

I hope this helps. 🤣

Exactly this. RR wipe or everyone rr14 would change very little.

Sometimes the only thing around is a BG of half afk ppl taking towers.

If you give all rr14 toons to these guys they would be lost.

What if towers no longer give rps coz you already capped all rps? Omg what would be the meaning of life then?

What is having fun on DAoC? Taking empty towers?

I don't really understand why people are so scared to die in game and either stick to zerg or stay chained to a keep.

Tue 5 Nov 2019 1:30 AM by SalidorMacCulloch

A RvR wipe would be bad. And changing anything with the RP system would be bad and unfair, for new players.

Alot of my friends that do play don't have the time they did a year ago. and a RP wipe would make almost all of them quit.

like a few already said. its not always about RR, its also about skill, or

character type vs character type. brains vs erm well the one button spamer

Tue 5 Nov 2019 1:52 AM by gotwqqd

I think the curve to RR5 or RR6 could be expedited
Maybe have the curve relatively flat till then before it starts to become exponentially increased

Tue 5 Nov 2019 1:54 PM by Lillebror

cap out at rr5, Emain only

Tue 5 Nov 2019 2:21 PM by Hector

Stop with this bulls**t that some people play more, that's why they are high rank. THERE ARE 149 PEOPLE OVER RANK 10. It took Flump, the biggest no lifer in the history of dark age, forever to achieve this on Uthgard. Here you get over 1k RPs every 30 minutes just for being killed. STOP THIS MADNESS

Tue 5 Nov 2019 3:09 PM by Mavella

This has been discussed so many times. A good portion of the high RRs already have enough KILL Rps to make them rr10+ already independent of the task ticks or not.

Them having 10 more points to spend on RAs because of task RPs isn't why you're losing.

Now the people that have 2 mil kill rps and 4 mil+ task rps from PvDoor. They are a joke. Feel free to roll them back lmao.

Tue 5 Nov 2019 6:06 PM by Siouxsie

My Gods, this thread is dripping with elitism.

Tue 5 Nov 2019 6:10 PM by Riac

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Nov 2019 6:06 PM
My Gods, this thread is dripping with elitism.

is it? are is it just a bunch of ppl QQing because they need to be r10 to go beat on a keep door for some reason? maybe go kill some ppl instead of afking in a keep, get more rps that way.

Tue 5 Nov 2019 6:28 PM by Roto23

Hector wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Nov 2019 2:21 PM
It took Flump, the biggest no lifer in the history of dark age, forever to achieve this on Uthgard.

I think Nate would disagree with you

Tue 5 Nov 2019 7:37 PM by Keelia

You think that the high rr people achieved these high RRs in the past months? They have been these high RRs for a while now back when there was a population. I went from RR3-7 on my cabby playing 2-3 hours a night in pretty much a month give/take a few. We were getting back to back constant fights some times keeping Our RP per hour in the high 20s. That just really isn’t achievable now with the population. You can roam for 30 mins and not find a dam thing only to run into the Zerg and get SoSed, STed, and TWFed by 4 groups of RR7 PvErs. Is what it is, you all just gotta stop grasping at the air in an attempt to fix the server. It’s dead, least for NA. Just find a new game and move on. Only way to fix it is to some how make it viable for the 8 mans to stand a chance at fighting the Zerg. Right now you poke the Zerg and you get insta SOSed by every group in it and they literally blow every RA and insta they have to burn down 8 people.

I know people are gonna say well the 8 mans do that to the solos, well the solo population compared to the 8 man population is tiny and the 8 mans to the Zerg is worse. Solos are lowest on the totem pole when it comes to player base. There’s Literally a hand full of people who ACTUALLY solo. Maybe add in speed warps, that would give 8 mans a chance against 60+

Wed 6 Nov 2019 5:46 AM by Hector

Oh how soon we forget the issues that plagued Uthgard 1.0 and Genesis