The BIG mistake of a single RvR task

This thread will present my opinions regarding the current RvR task reward of 1500 rp. Most of us probably agree that this new freeshard server brought alot of high expectations knowing that it would be old frontiers RvR, an opportunity to meet new players, as well as reunite with old friends and players from a time when this patch was released back in the days.

Once you reach level 50, farmed some PvE, and getting a templated gear you are ready for some good old RvR, at least in theory... Unforunately you are faced with an overcrowded RvR - which is not bad in itself since I am quite confident that most players prefer a slighty overpopulated server than roaming around for hours without facing any enemies.

However...The BIG issue here concerns the implementation of the RvR task reward of 1500 rp that pops up in only one of the several RvR zones at a time. Like many of us have already experienced, this is a BIG mistake and I will explain the two main issues about it:

1. One RvR task in only one zone motivates the majority of players to move to that small zone leading to a ridiculously large zerg vs zerg area with close to 0 % chance of getting 8v8 fights.

2. If you chose to avoid this task in order to find 8v8 fights you will not only lose that 1500 rp reward but you will run around completely alone in the other zones since no one wants/feels motivated to be there.

So my suggestion is:

Implement more than one of these RvR tasks simultanously in several RvR zones and reduce its rp reward. The reason I do not suggest you to remove it is because not all players on this server wants to run 8v8. It can result in many players quiting the game since they can no longer benefit from running in zergs getting easy rps. Anyway, atleast with the implementation I suggest the zerg will hopefully split up while also creating more space and opportunities for those (including myself) who long for fair 8v8 fights as well as for those who like to run solo, as a duo, or in a smallman group. Looking forward for any responses.

/Synsk, 50 dwarf healer (mid).

Sun 3 Feb 2019 3:56 PM by xoaster

You can go satisfy the task, then move along to do as you wish

IMHO like it so far

Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:01 PM by Synsk

Obviously you missed parts of what I wrote e.g. "you will run around completely alone in the other zones since no one wants/feels motivated to be there."
The zerg moves to the area where the new task pops up, and that is the whole problem of having one RvR task only and not several RvR tasks in several zones simultanously.

Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:02 PM by Isavyr

Can't disagree with you more. This design has been the Jesus Christ of DAOC by creating focal points for action. The fact you cannot find 8v8s means you are looking. Here is some advice:

1) Speak to enemy groups and try to setup a fights in a particular zone.
2) Look for groups on the road to the task-zone, not the task-zone itself itself.
3) Roam unpopulated corridors and try to pull fights in those areas.

Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:13 PM by Renork

Synsk wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:01 PM
Obviously you missed parts of what I wrote e.g. "you will run around completely alone in the other zones since no one wants/feels motivated to be there."
The zerg moves to the area where the new task pops up, and that is the whole problem of having one RvR task only and not several RvR tasks in several zones simultanously.

Sounds like a player attitude problem, doesn't it? If you really want to showcase your "competitive" side on this really old game, why don't you communicate with other people and setup your fights? You have plenty of places to fight. There is nothing wrong with communicating and setting up 8v8 areas (other private servers have done it and initially Agramon on live was an "unofficial" 8v8 area). The casuals keep the population healthy, so the current tasks are perfect.

Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:16 PM by Afuldan

Impliment 3 tasks, on seperate timers/counters.
1)Long term, 2)short term, and 3)immediate.
1)Capture and hold [number] of [enemy realm’s keeps] for [x time]. This would encourage people to try and get enough keeps to actualy hold DF for longer than 15 minutes, and gives the zerg a purpose other than quickly nabing one keep than moving on to a new zone. This resets daily, meaning it only gives rewards once every day. (long term)
2)Dominate [zone]. Exactly as we have it now, but timer/counter increased to 1 hour. This reward can be gotten [number of times] per day. (Short term)
3)Fight in [zone]. Leave this alone. Seems to be about 15-20 minutes for timer/credit when this pops as task. No limit on rewards. (Immediate)

Change reward RP’s for each task accordingly.

Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:24 PM by Synsk

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:02 PM
Can't disagree with you more. This design has been the Jesus Christ of DAOC by creating focal points for action. The fact you cannot find 8v8s means you are looking. Here is some advice:

1) Speak to enemy groups and try to setup a fights in a particular zone.
2) Look for groups on the road to the task-zone, not the task-zone itself itself.
3) Roam unpopulated corridors and try to pull fights in those areas.

I never said that I wanted to remove the zerg from the game and only have 8v8s. I simply said that the RvR task should be in several zones, not only in one zone. And as a response to your advice 1 is that speaking to enemy groups is not a fun way to play this game, it should not feel like playing Arena mode. 2: Already tried that, still getting zerged most of the time in approximate areas close to that zone, and 3) running unpopulated corridors leads to alot of running around and not finding enemies.

Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:28 PM by Synsk

Renork wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:13 PM
Synsk wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:01 PM
Obviously you missed parts of what I wrote e.g. "you will run around completely alone in the other zones since no one wants/feels motivated to be there."
The zerg moves to the area where the new task pops up, and that is the whole problem of having one RvR task only and not several RvR tasks in several zones simultanously.

Sounds like a player attitude problem, doesn't it? If you really want to showcase your "competitive" side on this really old game, why don't you communicate with other people and setup your fights? You have plenty of places to fight. There is nothing wrong with communicating and setting up 8v8 areas (other private servers have done it and initially Agramon on live was an "unofficial" 8v8 area). The casuals keep the population healthy, so the current tasks are perfect.

Its not about that. You dont want to be forced to set up 8v8 fights so it becomes Arena areas. I simply said "spread out rvr tasks", can't you see that only one task in one zone is one-sided and only creates one huge zerg on the server and emptiness in ALL the other like 12 rvr zones.

Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:38 PM by Isavyr

Synsk wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:28 PM
Its not about that. You dont want to be forced to set up 8v8 fights so it becomes Arena areas. I simply said "spread out rvr tasks", can't you see that only one task in one zone is one-sided and only creates one huge zerg on the server and emptiness in ALL the other like 12 rvr zones.

Fortunately I gave you three suggestions in the event you don't like one.

What you're asking for is a watering down of the current system, which basically destroys the system in low-populated periods, and furthermore weakens or removes ZvZ all the time; what about the players that prefer that?

Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:53 PM by Synsk

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:38 PM
Synsk wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Feb 2019 4:28 PM
Its not about that. You dont want to be forced to set up 8v8 fights so it becomes Arena areas. I simply said "spread out rvr tasks", can't you see that only one task in one zone is one-sided and only creates one huge zerg on the server and emptiness in ALL the other like 12 rvr zones.

Fortunately I gave you three suggestions in the event you don't like one.

What you're asking for is a watering down of the current system, which basically destroys the system in low-populated periods, and furthermore weakens or removes ZvZ all the time; what about the players that prefer that?

You still don't seem to grasp my point here. I am basically saying that spreading out several rvr tasks across several zones will make more areas flourish, not focusing all rvr in one zone at a time. People who wants to zerg can chose in what zone they want to zerg in, but still, the other zones will still be active and not completely empty of people. So I cant see why it will weaken or remove ZvZ for players who prefer that?

Sun 3 Feb 2019 5:00 PM by D3vil

Totally agree, would love to see some random action(zerg, group, smallman or whatever) in any other zone but the current "task" zone!
I dont like to suicide every 15 minute to run to next "task" just for the cause of it.

I want the playerbase to decide where to fight, not the server.

Sun 3 Feb 2019 5:24 PM by Isavyr

D3vil wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Feb 2019 5:00 PM
Totally agree, would love to see some random action(zerg, group, smallman or whatever) in any other zone but the current "task" zone!
I dont like to suicide every 15 minute to run to next "task" just for the cause of it.

I want the playerbase to decide where to fight, not the server.

Go attack a relic keep and let me know if nobody showed up.

Sun 3 Feb 2019 7:32 PM by defiasbandit

The OP is right. The realm tasks are a good addition, but they don't solve many issues with DAOC RvR. The issue with the game has always been the requiement of a full group in order to RvR. You run to a task as a small man or solo and you are dead within seconds. The tasks are a non-stop zergfest that favors the more populated realms. Zerging without purpose other than to farm easy RPs. Full groups running over small man and solos as they enter the task zones. Zerging is good, but zergs should be fighting over objectives, not roaming the same zone mowing over anything in sight. You walk around non-task frontiers and they are empty. 3000+ players online and mostly empty frontier zones, because everyone is just zerging in a task zone. There are potential solutions to making more playstyles and zones viable for RvR.

Simultaneous Realm Tasks:

Having tasks going on in multiple frontiers at the same time. Rewarding players with bonus contribution RP for killing players in the less populated realm task. This way fighting in the less populated task frontier can earn you more RP.

Incentivizing Non-Task Frontiers:

Treasure chests that spawn around the frontiers that reward gold. Encourage players to roam non-task frontiers looking for these chests.

Improved rewards for Solo Kill Tasks. Add Duo and 8man Kill Tasks. Bigger RP bonus for completing these tasks and having more of them. Zone specific tasks could be interesting.

Improve the drops of Frontier mobs. Add unique dyes, weapon lusters, potions, or even reskins. Most of the players you see in non-task frontiers are levelers, because they have good reason to be there. Collection tasks, bonus xp, and great farming spots are what bring these players to the frontiers. So why can't there be incentives like these for level 50s? Feathers could have been a way to bring more players to farm in the frontiers, but why bother killing any Frontier bosses when you can do TG or farm PvE zone bosses and get a lot more feathers. We need highly rewarding farming in the frontiers at level 50.

The server is great. It's probably the best iteration of DAOC ever, but I think the RvR could be much better if it happened in many frontier zones instead of just the task zone. The big issue is that the rewards and incentives for RvRing elsewhere just aren't good enough. It's important that a lot of the RvR is concentrated in one area, but not all of it should be.

Sun 3 Feb 2019 10:57 PM by slunky45

What about periods with no task at all? After 50 levels of 'go here, kill xyz' then it's just 'go here kill xyz' after 50 too.

Not having a carrot in front of you is what made this a unique MMO...I swear to god if you implement dorky treasure chests to roam and find in frontiers zones...Mark Jacobs will probably come knock your server over a la King Kong.

I know everybody thinks this server is amazing...it got compared to Jesus on this thread! But honestly it is basically just another modern MMO wearing a dark age costume.

Sun 3 Feb 2019 11:12 PM by Dimir

I agree with the OP.

These tasks are good for the server but we need to iterate on them. From a soloist perspective they're a nightmare.
Ideas:
- Spread them around, maybe only allow players to achieve X within a time period so people don't just get 1 kill and hop to the other one.
- I like the idea of some no-task time in between every now and then.
- Make it a little more random instead of Hib -> Mid -> Alb
- NO credit for just dying. A single kill credit is totally reasonable.
- Change the attack keep task to actually require something. We had DC last night (rare for Albs) and I watched waves of mids just suicide into the keep for credit. That's a stupid system.

Sun 3 Feb 2019 11:25 PM by vbt

Why not provide different bonuses in different zones?

Keep the highest bonus in the zones near the mile gates and allow all players to receive the bonus. This will allow things to continue as they have been with the existing task.

Provide another bonus in a more distant zone that provides bonuses to groups of 5 or less.

Then provide an additional bonus for solo players in the most distant zone.

It may divide the server slightly but everyone would be able to have a higher %chance of finding what they're looking for and increase player enjoyment.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 12:09 AM by slunky45

vbt wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Feb 2019 11:25 PM
Why not provide different bonuses in different zones?

Keep the highest bonus in the zones near the mile gates and allow all players to receive the bonus. This will allow things to continue as they have been with the existing task.

Provide another bonus in a more distant zone that provides bonuses to groups of 5 or less.

Then provide an additional bonus for solo players in the most distant zone.

It may divide the server slightly but everyone would be able to have a higher %chance of finding what they're looking for and increase player enjoyment.

I guess the big question, is will the average player here do anything without expecting a bonus?

Suiciding on a keep just for free RP...?

Games with absolutely no penalty for doing bad/dying don't hold anybodys attention for very long.

Rather than thinking up bonuses for everything...what about the other way round...actual penalties for dying...instead of buffed up and rolling again in 20 seconds. But...we already know the staff will never upset the crybabies here...3 mins after death?!?! OMG I LITERALLY CANT PLAY NOW! Cry in forums until staff cave in....precedent set.

Honestly the play style here reminds me of popular flash based 2d zombie shooters...except here we play as the mindless zombies wave after wave.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 12:28 AM by vbt

slunky45 wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 12:09 AM
vbt wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Feb 2019 11:25 PM
Why not provide different bonuses in different zones?

Keep the highest bonus in the zones near the mile gates and allow all players to receive the bonus. This will allow things to continue as they have been with the existing task.

Provide another bonus in a more distant zone that provides bonuses to groups of 5 or less.

Then provide an additional bonus for solo players in the most distant zone.

It may divide the server slightly but everyone would be able to have a higher %chance of finding what they're looking for and increase player enjoyment.

I guess the big question, is will the average player here do anything without expecting a bonus?

Suiciding on a keep just for free RP...?

Games with absolutely no penalty for doing bad/dying don't hold anybodys attention for very long.

Rather than thinking up bonuses for everything...what about the other way round...actual penalties for dying...instead of buffed up and rolling again in 20 seconds. But...we already know the staff will never upset the crybabies here...3 mins after death?!?! OMG I LITERALLY CANT PLAY NOW! Cry in forums until staff cave in....precedent set.

Honestly the play style here reminds me of popular flash based 2d zombie shooters...except here we play as the mindless zombies wave after wave.

I was vague in my post for the sake of the general idea, but I did not intend the bonus to be active in all zones at all times. The bonus would rotate as it does now from zone to zone. Honestly it doesn't have to be a bonus, if it was known somehow that x zone is encouraged for small man play or x zone was for solo it would make it easier to do what we want to do, and I think that's all the op is trying to get at

Mon 4 Feb 2019 10:33 AM by Sepplord

So many 8man groups, and they always claim that they can never find each other and have to zerg

It was the same back then, just that they complained about emain always being zergy, and the other zones empty
now it is, "the task zone" is zergy and all other zones are too empty to got there

There are only two options:
a) there aren't enough 8man-grps on the server that want to 8vs8

b) there are enough 8man-grps on the server that want to 8vs8

If it is a), then no patch or system-change will make a difference. There simply are not enough groups to give you what you want.
If it is b), then it's a playermade issue. Organize and communicate. For example always roam the realm where the task was last. The rotation is always the same (hib->alb->mid->hib) so it is easy to check /task, see Oh task is in midgard, so 8manning is in alb).
ARe you really telling me that setgroups, that have superior coordination and planning regarding their own groupsetup/playtime/etc... are unable to communicate with their likeminded playercommunity.
Having one Zone (depending on task) for the 8vs8-crowd to gather in, is also far from "arena-PvP", noone here told the 8man grps to just use the tournament-NPC (is it working here anyways?).

That is, if you really want 8vs8 fights, instead of a nice huge RP/hour number at the end of the night.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 1:28 PM by chryso

Synsk wrote: ↑
Sun 3 Feb 2019 3:48 PM
1. One RvR task in only one zone motivates the majority of players to move to that small zone leading to a ridiculously large zerg vs zerg area with close to 0 % chance of getting 8v8 fights.

If you aren't finding anyone to 8v8 then perhaps the issue is that nobody else wants to 8v8.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 2:43 PM by Ardri

8mans crying about zergs and not getting 8v8 set fights. Ha...haha...hahahaha

Mon 4 Feb 2019 5:55 PM by Ryken

I like the current task system and think it is a genius addition to this server. As other's have said you can find some 8v8 fights by roaming the zones leading to the task. I've been in 8v8 fights setup on Disc or Twitch.

If you make killing another player a requirement to getting task credit you will kill a large portion of casuals that are running the tasks with non ideal groups or small man teams. I've seen quite a few 3-5 man teams in the task zones. The current task system doesn't require a fg to do something. These non ideal and small man groups that I've been in are willing to run these zones because they know despite the risk of being ganked by an 8man or zerg at least they get the 1500 rps after the task completes so their effort is not in vain and time wasted for nothing.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 6:49 PM by slunky45

Ryken wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 5:55 PM
I like the current task system and think it is a genius addition to this server...If you make killing another player a requirement to getting task credit you will kill a large portion of casuals that are running the tasks with non ideal groups or small man teams.

[edit - Abuse]

Mon 4 Feb 2019 7:15 PM by Isavyr

slunky45 wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 6:49 PM
[edit - Abuse]

I enjoy it; I consider it RvR. Sorry that you're not having fun.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 7:18 PM by Dimir

Ryken wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 5:55 PM
If you make killing another player a requirement to getting task credit you will kill a large portion of casuals that are running the tasks with non ideal groups or small man teams. I've seen quite a few 3-5 man teams in the task zones. The current task system doesn't require a fg to do something. These non ideal and small man groups that I've been in are willing to run these zones because they know despite the risk of being ganked by an 8man or zerg at least they get the 1500 rps after the task completes so their effort is not in vain and time wasted for nothing.

I watch people just blinding run into bigger groups with zero care in the world because it will get them their task credit. This is beyond silly. It's not difficult to get a single kill. Your small man team can just zerg a solo or add a larger fight. Heaven forbid it takes you a second trip out of the portal keep to get credit. But getting a RVR rewards for doing nothing but dying might as well not require RVR. Why even make the casuals go into the frontiers?

I'm not high enough yet but I really hope these tasks start to give 0 RPs at higher RR.

Don't get me wrong, I think the task system is really cool and great for the server. But it needs modification:
- More reduction of RPs as RR increases (its about 1150 at RR4, but idk yet what it drops to at RR5)
- Require a least 1 kill for the non-keep tasks
- Make the keep task require a broken door, a killed guard, anything but having people just run to a keep and die on purpose.
- Multiple zones active at once. The zerging is annoying but not as bad to me as the complete absence of players from the other zones (except sometimes Emain when it's prime time, and even then it's sliiiim pickings).

Casuals can still do it but might have to put in a little more effort than afk running towards the mile gate.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 7:47 PM by Renork

Dimir wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 7:18 PM
Ryken wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 5:55 PM
If you make killing another player a requirement to getting task credit you will kill a large portion of casuals that are running the tasks with non ideal groups or small man teams. I've seen quite a few 3-5 man teams in the task zones. The current task system doesn't require a fg to do something. These non ideal and small man groups that I've been in are willing to run these zones because they know despite the risk of being ganked by an 8man or zerg at least they get the 1500 rps after the task completes so their effort is not in vain and time wasted for nothing.

I watch people just blinding run into bigger groups with zero care in the world because it will get them their task credit. This is beyond silly. It's not difficult to get a single kill. Your small man team can just zerg a solo or add a larger fight. Heaven forbid it takes you a second trip out of the portal keep to get credit. But getting a RVR rewards for doing nothing but dying might as well not require RVR. Why even make the casuals go into the frontiers?

I'm not high enough yet but I really hope these tasks start to give 0 RPs at higher RR.

Don't get me wrong, I think the task system is really cool and great for the server. But it needs modification:
- More reduction of RPs as RR increases (its about 1150 at RR4, but idk yet what it drops to at RR5)
- Require a least 1 kill for the non-keep tasks
- Make the keep task require a broken door, a killed guard, anything but having people just run to a keep and die on purpose.
- Multiple zones active at once. The zerging is annoying but not as bad to me as the complete absence of players from the other zones (except sometimes Emain when it's prime time, and even then it's sliiiim pickings).

Casuals can still do it but might have to put in a little more effort than afk running towards the mile gate.

RR10 requires 5,974,125 rps or so. Even with 1,150 rps per task, it's going to take a long time for those "casuals" to get there (over 5,000 tasks?). If anything, this benefits our oh so honorable 8-mans that can spend countless hours on this game.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 8:04 PM by defiasbandit

Ardri wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 2:43 PM
8mans crying about zergs and not getting 8v8 set fights. Ha...haha...hahahaha

The RvR tasks are mostly 8mans killing lesser numbers.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 3:07 AM by Frieza

i dont mind the idea of 3 tasks vs 1, but i dont think there is anything to complain about.

If anything the biggest problem with the rvr task now is it reduces player choice a little.

You need something to motivate people, and i think the biggest point you are missing with adding more rvr tasks is that there will be nothing stopping a zerg going ökay we tagged this task, now lets goto emain and pick on that keep/ area". You wil just spread the player base.

Why is that bad? Means less encounters, makes the server feel less populated and can result in logs/ lower players. Our frontiers are not small, some people log in for 30 mins and thats it, therefore having to change from mid to hib, can cause a group to die. Leave as in imo

Tue 5 Feb 2019 5:23 AM by Sofely

Tasks are awesome, people everywhere ( Solo / Small / 8 Man / zerg )
Server is not one month old yet, why tf are people already trying to change things ?

Dont let « elitist » players try to make Phœnix as they want it to be, please.

It s the casuals and zerglovers that will keep Phoenix alive for years, not the others.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 8:03 AM by Sepplord

seeing constant flow of people into the taskzones is what makes this server great

it pulls MORE people (cough victims cough) into RvR. Why do people care so much that these players get "free-RPS" when they donate much more to the cause and give everyone a target.
When levelling i task-leached pretty often when it fit in my farmroute and i often saw/met other lowies. I even had a 1vs1 when i was still around lvl30 against another lowie, while there was a highlevel group of the enemy realm watching and cheering.

Yeah, that's an exception and nothing to expect, but it still was awesome and a special moment, sponsored by realm-task. (I lost horribly though)

Tue 5 Feb 2019 11:58 AM by Deathunter

Its alwa, s about 8v8... Cant hear it no more. Task rewards shrink with time and 8v8 will increase. Meanwhile just enjoy some epic HUGE fights 🙄🙄

Tue 5 Feb 2019 3:55 PM by msitruk

I like the actual 1 task rotating, this allow to see other landscape than only green herbs of emain !!
I like the actual fight there is all stealthers / small / 8 man / zerg / fight in mg /keep/ plain.
I like we can cure illness after rel so we don't get stupide down/lost time and encourage to make risky things.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 6:19 PM by defiasbandit

Move the Kill task out of Emain, Odins, and Hadrians. Make it in breifine, jamtland, and pennine.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 6:34 PM by chryso

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 6:19 PM
Move the Kill task out of Emain, Odins, and Hadrians. Make it in breifine, jamtland, and pennine.

No thanks. I like it how it is.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 6:36 PM by Quik

chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 6:34 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 6:19 PM
Move the Kill task out of Emain, Odins, and Hadrians. Make it in breifine, jamtland, and pennine.

No thanks. I like it how it is.

Same

Tue 5 Feb 2019 7:45 PM by slunky45

Sofely wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 5:23 AM
Tasks are awesome, people everywhere ( Solo / Small / 8 Man / zerg )
Server is not one month old yet, why tf are people already trying to change things ?

Dont let « elitist » players try to make Phœnix as they want it to be, please.

It s the casuals and zerglovers that will keep Phoenix alive for years, not the others.

I don't see how turning DAoC into an endless MOBA with zero death penalty is something to expect years of entertainment from.

I'm bummed to see any suggestion supporting a RPG element where players decide what to do being dubbed 'elitest.'

If anything I'd guess the real 'elites' would absolutely love the idea of disorganized groups coming out in droves to earn their small prize, not caring how much they die/get farmed...and then hook up in discord if they want to go fight 8v8 in one of the empty zones...once they have farmed for all their RAs of course.

I just don't understand why this single task zone has to exist....there's over 3k people here who want to play DAoC....can you not let them actually play DAoC instead of 'Battle Arena: Emain 2019'

Tue 5 Feb 2019 7:51 PM by defiasbandit

slunky45 wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 7:45 PM
Sofely wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 5:23 AM
Tasks are awesome, people everywhere ( Solo / Small / 8 Man / zerg )
Server is not one month old yet, why tf are people already trying to change things ?

Dont let « elitist » players try to make Phœnix as they want it to be, please.

It s the casuals and zerglovers that will keep Phoenix alive for years, not the others.

I don't see how turning DAoC into an endless MOBA with zero death penalty is something to expect years of entertainment from.

I'm bummed to see any suggestion supporting a RPG element where players decide what to do being dubbed 'elitest.'

If anything I'd guess the real 'elites' would absolutely love the idea of disorganized groups coming out in droves to earn their small prize, not caring how much they die/get farmed...and then hook up in discord if they want to go fight 8v8 in one of the empty zones...once they have farmed for all their RAs of course.

I just don't understand why this single task zone has to exist....there's over 3k people here who want to play DAoC....can you not let them actually play DAoC instead of 'Battle Arena: Emain 2019'

Precisely. Why not have a second task zone that works differently? Why not change realm tasks so they are not portal zone milegate zergfasts.

The big issue with RvR is that there is no reason to roam or be in non task frontiers if you are level 50.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 8:16 PM by chryso

A lot of people are playing and having fun. You seem to be mad that they aren't playing the way you want them to play.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:06 PM by defiasbandit

chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 8:16 PM
A lot of people are playing and having fun. You seem to be mad that they aren't playing the way you want them to play.

I am all for zerging. Zerging at keeps that is. Having the bulk of RvR just be 8 man groups circling in one zone is just boring. Is it so bold for me to encourage RvR in other zones, so most of the frontiers are not so empty?

Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:14 PM by Quik

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:06 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 8:16 PM
A lot of people are playing and having fun. You seem to be mad that they aren't playing the way you want them to play.

I am all for zerging. Zerging at keeps that is. Having the bulk of RvR just be 8 man groups circling in one zone is just boring. Is it so bold for me to encourage RvR in other zones, so most of the frontiers are not so empty?

I don't disagree with you on this, I just think right now most people are having fun with the nice population and RvR activity we do have.

I'm just not sure we should mess with what is working while it is doing so well.

I have never been against encouraging solo and small man, I just don't want 8man to be punished just so solo/small man can do what they want.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:17 PM by defiasbandit

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:14 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:06 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 8:16 PM
A lot of people are playing and having fun. You seem to be mad that they aren't playing the way you want them to play.

I am all for zerging. Zerging at keeps that is. Having the bulk of RvR just be 8 man groups circling in one zone is just boring. Is it so bold for me to encourage RvR in other zones, so most of the frontiers are not so empty?

I don't disagree with you on this, I just think right now most people are having fun with the nice population and RvR activity we do have.

I'm just not sure we should mess with what is working while it is doing so well.

I have never been against encouraging solo and small man, I just don't want 8man to be punished just so solo/small man can do what they want.

And I agree with that. This is likely why the devs won't change the task system for now, because they are hesitant to alter something that appears to be working well. However, appearances are deceiving, and the RvR is still so new here. Having RvR just non stop tasks in a single zone and frontier 24/7 becomes shallow, and many of us think that making adjustments or adding an extra task will prevent potential issues still brewing. You must also try to look at the Albion perspective. It is much more difficult to complete the tasks for Albion. Not surprisingly they have more AFKs and players not attending tasks. Look how absent they are from the Albion realm task, and its in their own backyard. There are reasons for this, and some reveal flaws with the current system.

4000 population server and many frontiers are empty. Yes, that is a downside of these single zone realm tasks.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:22 PM by Quik

Which is a possibility, but the dev's need to focus on what is making the most people happy, and right now the current system is definitely making a huge chunk the of player base happy.

After a period of time (I have no idea how long) I'm sure they will adjust.

The best thing as players we can do is flood them with ideas of what we like, and what we dislike, and try to give them an idea of where to go next.

The problem is, the forums are not very visited. I would guess and say 5% or less ever read the forums actively and less respond, leaving the dev's to do the best they can.

Right now I like the current system and I am happy they are keeping it going, but it won't stay this way forever, I'm sure they are working on issues that 3k people are having that 1k people in beta never experienced, and RvR stuff is probably on the back burner while they tweak things.

Wed 6 Feb 2019 7:35 AM by Sepplord

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:17 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:14 PM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:06 PM
I am all for zerging. Zerging at keeps that is. Having the bulk of RvR just be 8 man groups circling in one zone is just boring. Is it so bold for me to encourage RvR in other zones, so most of the frontiers are not so empty?

I don't disagree with you on this, I just think right now most people are having fun with the nice population and RvR activity we do have.

I'm just not sure we should mess with what is working while it is doing so well.

I have never been against encouraging solo and small man, I just don't want 8man to be punished just so solo/small man can do what they want.

And I agree with that. This is likely why the devs won't change the task system for now, because they are hesitant to alter something that appears to be working well. However, appearances are deceiving, and the RvR is still so new here. Having RvR just non stop tasks in a single zone and frontier 24/7 becomes shallow, and many of us think that making adjustments or adding an extra task will prevent potential issues still brewing. You must also try to look at the Albion perspective. It is much more difficult to complete the tasks for Albion. Not surprisingly they have more AFKs and players not attending tasks. Look how absent they are from the Albion realm task, and its in their own backyard. There are reasons for this, and some reveal flaws with the current system.

4000 population server and many frontiers are empty. Yes, that is a downside of these single zone realm tasks.

Your view is so biased, and i have showed it several times, yet you go into thread after thread claiming albs have it the worst.
It's simply untrue. Albs have a shorter travel than mids to breifiene tasks, they have a shorter travel than hibs to jamtland tasks. And they are absent from their "own backyard" task, just like there are less Mids doing the Odins-gate tasks. Hibs are used to/planned to run Emain when starting as hibs anyways but they still have the longest travelroute to the emain task, compared to alb/mid.

When there were no tasks at all back then Action was only in Emain.
Having equal rewards in every zone doesn't magically spread the RvR population. It will just funnel them into the easiest to roam zone again, which is emain.

Wed 6 Feb 2019 7:37 AM by defiasbandit

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 7:35 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:17 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:14 PM
I don't disagree with you on this, I just think right now most people are having fun with the nice population and RvR activity we do have.

I'm just not sure we should mess with what is working while it is doing so well.

I have never been against encouraging solo and small man, I just don't want 8man to be punished just so solo/small man can do what they want.

And I agree with that. This is likely why the devs won't change the task system for now, because they are hesitant to alter something that appears to be working well. However, appearances are deceiving, and the RvR is still so new here. Having RvR just non stop tasks in a single zone and frontier 24/7 becomes shallow, and many of us think that making adjustments or adding an extra task will prevent potential issues still brewing. You must also try to look at the Albion perspective. It is much more difficult to complete the tasks for Albion. Not surprisingly they have more AFKs and players not attending tasks. Look how absent they are from the Albion realm task, and its in their own backyard. There are reasons for this, and some reveal flaws with the current system.

4000 population server and many frontiers are empty. Yes, that is a downside of these single zone realm tasks.

Your view is so biased, and i have showed it several times, yet you go into thread after thread claiming albs have it the worst.
It's simply untrue. Albs have a shorter travel than mids to breifiene tasks, they have a shorter travel than hibs to jamtland tasks. And they are absent from their "own backyard" task, just like there are less Mids doing the Odins-gate tasks. Hibs are used to/planned to run Emain when starting as hibs anyways but they still have the longest travelroute to the emain task, compared to alb/mid.

When there were no tasks at all back then Action was only in Emain.
Having equal rewards in every zone doesn't magically spread the RvR population. It will just funnel them into the easiest to roam zone again, which is emain.

Do you not understand that Albion has to fight through Hibs and Mids at the mile gate and outside their player keep in order to do the tasks? Hibs and Mids have free walks to the tasks. Albion is wedged in between Midgard and Hibernia. You either don't do the realm tasks or you are just lying.

There should be more frontier zones to RvR in. There is 3k+ players online at peak hours. Why is this hard for you comprehend?

Wed 6 Feb 2019 7:50 AM by Sepplord

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 7:37 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 7:35 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 9:17 PM
And I agree with that. This is likely why the devs won't change the task system for now, because they are hesitant to alter something that appears to be working well. However, appearances are deceiving, and the RvR is still so new here. Having RvR just non stop tasks in a single zone and frontier 24/7 becomes shallow, and many of us think that making adjustments or adding an extra task will prevent potential issues still brewing. You must also try to look at the Albion perspective. It is much more difficult to complete the tasks for Albion. Not surprisingly they have more AFKs and players not attending tasks. Look how absent they are from the Albion realm task, and its in their own backyard. There are reasons for this, and some reveal flaws with the current system.

4000 population server and many frontiers are empty. Yes, that is a downside of these single zone realm tasks.

Your view is so biased, and i have showed it several times, yet you go into thread after thread claiming albs have it the worst.
It's simply untrue. Albs have a shorter travel than mids to breifiene tasks, they have a shorter travel than hibs to jamtland tasks. And they are absent from their "own backyard" task, just like there are less Mids doing the Odins-gate tasks. Hibs are used to/planned to run Emain when starting as hibs anyways but they still have the longest travelroute to the emain task, compared to alb/mid.

When there were no tasks at all back then Action was only in Emain.
Having equal rewards in every zone doesn't magically spread the RvR population. It will just funnel them into the easiest to roam zone again, which is emain.

Do you not understand that Albion has to fight through Hibs and Mids at the mile gate and outside their player keep in order to do the tasks? Hibs and Mids have free walks to the tasks. Albion is wedged in between Midgard and Hibernia. You either don't do the realm tasks or you are just lying.

There should be more frontier zones to RvR in. There is 3k+ players online at peak hours. Why is this hard for you comprehend?

Ah, your second favorite claim about mids and hibs sandwhiching Albion while albion is camped in the portkeep

We have a secret no-alb-discord where we plan our shifts to camp the albwall together with hibs

There are plenty of zones btw. your choice to go somewhere else. If you would put half of the time you use to spout your nonsense on the forum (i almost wrote effort instead of time, but i think that would give you too much credit) into organizing and actually playing in other zones people would follow (assuming you are correct and the amount of people disliking the taskzones is actually as big as you claim). What do you have to lose? According to you you are not getting to the tasks anyway, so you aren't losing out on task rewards

PS: how did your superbowl commercial work out? Maybe you should have taken a few of those millions and hired a professional wall-breaker-SG to play in albion and attack the milegate as you command. For the better of the server, right?

Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:46 PM by moe_Jiller

So basically You cant find enough 8v8 (Maybe because noone wants to do that at that Time?) and therefore other people should Change their playstyle.

Idk, seems to me its working fine as it is.

Wed 6 Feb 2019 2:12 PM by slunky45

moe_Jiller wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:46 PM
So basically You cant find enough 8v8 (Maybe because noone wants to do that at that Time?) and therefore other people should Change their playstyle.

Idk, seems to me its working fine as it is.

I'd be happy if more people actually had a playstyle. If the task popped up "New Realm Task: Find a grape mob to suicide on!" all the zerglings would just make a mad dash for the nearest grape you can find...and you call that "playstyle." Hell, there'd probably be complaints about, "My solo stealther can't get to the grape mob camps in time for the bonus!"

The beautiful thing about DAoC, was once you hit 50, the treadmill was over, and RvR was open and fun and dependent on your playstyle, and your enemy's playstyle. What this server has done is capitalize on what most modern games do, and just keep people on a treadmill forever...always chasing down the reward the game dangles in front of their face.

Wed 6 Feb 2019 2:57 PM by Takii

moe_Jiller wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:46 PM
So basically You cant find enough 8v8 (Maybe because noone wants to do that at that Time?) and therefore other people should Change their playstyle.

Idk, seems to me its working fine as it is.

The irony is that at least at NA primetime when I RvR with my guild, we see TONS of 8 man groups. The problem is that since everyone is just zerging the tasks, that becomes the only way to make RPs since 90% (and I'm not exaggerating that number) of the time you engage another group 8v8, AT LEAST another group will add within 30 seconds. So you end up with a zerg of 8 mans running "separately but together" and more or less suiciding on each other to get task credit.

Last night there were 173 Hibs in Hadrian's during the Alb task. There is physically not enough room for that many people in a single RvR zone, let alone that x2 or x3.

I have no problem with an 8 man (PUG or not) occasionally adding onto fights. It's annoying but I expect it and it's part of the game. The problem is that right now it is practically impossible to experience anything but that (except that it's actually 2-3 groups adding onto every fight).

The task system is good, but its current implementation suffers from this server's population being (ironically)too high. The tasks literally create too much action for how OF was designed. Having 2 tasks active in 2 different FZs at the same time may be a good first step to spread out the population, but you have to be careful there because the nature of the participation reward mechanic means that people will go to Task Zone 1 and suicide/get a kill to get credit and immediately go to Task Zone 2 to do the same.

Wed 6 Feb 2019 3:06 PM by Sepplord

Takii wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 2:57 PM
moe_Jiller wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:46 PM
So basically You cant find enough 8v8 (Maybe because noone wants to do that at that Time?) and therefore other people should Change their playstyle.

Idk, seems to me its working fine as it is.

The irony is that at least at NA primetime when I RvR with my guild, we see TONS of 8 man groups. The problem is that since everyone is just zerging the tasks, that becomes the only way to make RPs since 90% (and I'm not exaggerating that number) of the time you engage another group 8v8, AT LEAST another group will add within 30 seconds. So you end up with a zerg of 8 mans running "separately but together" and more or less suiciding on each other to get task credit.

Last night there were 173 Hibs in Hadrian's during the Alb task. There is physically not enough room for that many people in a single RvR zone, let alone that x2 or x3.

I have no problem with an 8 man (PUG or not) occasionally adding onto fights. It's annoying but I expect it and it's part of the game. The problem is that right now it is practically impossible to experience anything but that (except that it's actually 2-3 groups adding onto every fight).

The task system is good, but its current implementation suffers from this server's population being (ironically)too high. The tasks literally create too much action for how OF was designed. Having 2 tasks active in 2 different FZs at the same time may be a good first step to spread out the population, but you have to be careful there because the nature of the participation reward mechanic means that people will go to Task Zone 1 and suicide/get a kill to get credit and immediately go to Task Zone 2 to do the same.

Why don't you go somewhere else though?
If there are so many 8man groups not wanting to zerg, why do they all go to the zergzone?
If only 2 groups from each realm, went to a different zone everyone would have 4 different enemy groups roaming. How can it be so hard to designate (for example) the last zone/realm the task was in as unofficial 8vs8 zone?

The answer is always: but there is noone there.
The real answer seem to be though: there are no noobs to farm in between, only hard fights that take long and don't give a lot of RP/hour

Wed 6 Feb 2019 5:05 PM by chryso

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 3:06 PM
The answer is always: but there is noone there.
The real answer seem to be though: there are no noobs to farm in between, only hard fights that take long and don't give a lot of RP/hour

This is your real answer. They say they want the fights but, in reality, they want the RPs more.

Wed 6 Feb 2019 5:30 PM by Onnit

3 tasks at the same time rotating across the three realms.
One frontier task bonus only for solo / duo
2nd frontier task bonus only for small man / FG
3rd frontier task bonus only for BG/Zerg

Just an idea, the constant zergs / adding during my playtime (EU prime) are taking away from how good Phoenix is with everything else.

Wed 6 Feb 2019 6:17 PM by Tyton

I definitely like the RvR task system, but as with anything, I'm sure something else has suffered (or will reveal itself in time). And I'll admit, the RVR task system does create a sort of "Lemmings" mentality--that hopefully can be adjusted, but it's done a lot of good as well. It's f**** awesome to see those epic 100v100 battles in this game again, and lets players who might otherwise seldom earn any rps at all accomplish something. There's good and bad. Regardless, a positive thing is that the devs here are proactive and if there's a serious issue, they'll fix it (but it doesn't hurt to discuss here).

I don't think giving people a special reward for fighting as FG/8v8 is the answer--and if 8man setups want fair 8v8 fights so badly, why don't they all just visit the non task zone and battle it out? And it's also kind of funny to hear 8man complain about lack of fair fights and too much zerg when most of them participate in the zergs OR consistently roll xpers, soloers, etc (which is fine btw, but don't complain about fair if you don't play that way 100% of the time).

When I feel like soloing, I pretty much just choose a zone that there's no task in, and I find plenty of roamers or xpers to kill. There's already a solo kill task reward, which is nice, and a "kill x players" - I don't think you need special rewards for duos, trios, fg, etc. It's kind of silly. I see both sides of this debate, and they're points well taken--Phoenix is an ongoing project that will evolve as time goes on. There may be a way to adjust things--we'll see. This isn't Uth 2 where: it is, what it is. Things that do more harm than good, in the long run, will be dealt with.

Wed 6 Feb 2019 6:46 PM by defiasbandit

Takii wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 2:57 PM
moe_Jiller wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 12:46 PM
So basically You cant find enough 8v8 (Maybe because noone wants to do that at that Time?) and therefore other people should Change their playstyle.

Idk, seems to me its working fine as it is.

The irony is that at least at NA primetime when I RvR with my guild, we see TONS of 8 man groups. The problem is that since everyone is just zerging the tasks, that becomes the only way to make RPs since 90% (and I'm not exaggerating that number) of the time you engage another group 8v8, AT LEAST another group will add within 30 seconds. So you end up with a zerg of 8 mans running "separately but together" and more or less suiciding on each other to get task credit.

Last night there were 173 Hibs in Hadrian's during the Alb task. There is physically not enough room for that many people in a single RvR zone, let alone that x2 or x3.

I have no problem with an 8 man (PUG or not) occasionally adding onto fights. It's annoying but I expect it and it's part of the game. The problem is that right now it is practically impossible to experience anything but that (except that it's actually 2-3 groups adding onto every fight).

The task system is good, but its current implementation suffers from this server's population being (ironically)too high. The tasks literally create too much action for how OF was designed. Having 2 tasks active in 2 different FZs at the same time may be a good first step to spread out the population, but you have to be careful there because the nature of the participation reward mechanic means that people will go to Task Zone 1 and suicide/get a kill to get credit and immediately go to Task Zone 2 to do the same.

Realm tasks do a lot of good. Participation RP and zerg rvr are good things. However, the RvR on Phoenix is too limiting. The task zones are too small to support the frontier population, and they restrict many playstyles. There is also the issue of of underpopulated realms being camped and zerged behind their milegates.

There should be a second task in a non realm task frontier. It does not have to reward Participation RP, but can have its own RP pool. I suggested making it a solo kill RP pool like the solo kill tasks.

Wed 6 Feb 2019 7:59 PM by Takii

chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 5:05 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 3:06 PM
Why don't you go somewhere else though?
If there are so many 8man groups not wanting to zerg, why do they all go to the zergzone?
The answer is always: but there is noone there.
The real answer seem to be though: there are no noobs to farm in between, only hard fights that take long and don't give a lot of RP/hour

This is your real answer. They say they want the fights but, in reality, they want the RPs more.

The reality is not that black and white.

RPs are the end-game progression of this game. Everyone wants RPs because it makes their character more powerful, especially early in the end-game life of their characters like now. This applies to everyone regardless of playstyle and silly to say that people should not want them.

People don't go somewhere else because there is nothing incentivizing them to do so. The entire server, bar a couple people who play 18 hours a day, is still in a stage where they are trying to get to RR5 so they have their core RAs. With the current task system, you either roam empty non-task areas and find nobody to fight and get no RPs, or you roam task areas, suicide on task objectives to get credit and get uberzerged in-between.

I don't think most people interested in 8vs8 are interested in a designated, arena-style thing. The beauty of this game is that you can have solo, smallman, 8man and zerg playstyles happening organically in the same areas. Not knowing what you're going to run into is part of the fun. This basically does not exist on this server due to the current design of RvR tasks.

Wed 6 Feb 2019 8:47 PM by defiasbandit

Takii wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 7:59 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 5:05 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 6 Feb 2019 3:06 PM
Why don't you go somewhere else though?
If there are so many 8man groups not wanting to zerg, why do they all go to the zergzone?
The answer is always: but there is noone there.
The real answer seem to be though: there are no noobs to farm in between, only hard fights that take long and don't give a lot of RP/hour

This is your real answer. They say they want the fights but, in reality, they want the RPs more.

The reality is not that black and white.

RPs are the end-game progression of this game. Everyone wants RPs because it makes their character more powerful, especially early in the end-game life of their characters like now. This applies to everyone regardless of playstyle and silly to say that people should not want them.

People don't go somewhere else because there is nothing incentivizing them to do so. The entire server, bar a couple people who play 18 hours a day, is still in a stage where they are trying to get to RR5 so they have their core RAs. With the current task system, you either roam empty non-task areas and find nobody to fight and get no RPs, or you roam task areas, suicide on task objectives to get credit and get uberzerged in-between.

I don't think most people interested in 8vs8 are interested in a designated, arena-style thing. The beauty of this game is that you can have solo, smallman, 8man and zerg playstyles happening organically in the same areas. Not knowing what you're going to run into is part of the fun. This basically does not exist on this server due to the current design of RvR tasks.

Precisely this is why we could use a second realm task zone separate from the realm task. As you said, the only players you tend to see outside of the realm tasks are levelers. There needs to be more valuable farming for level 50s. Unique items or materials that only drop in the frontiers. This is what brings players to the other frontiers.

Thu 7 Feb 2019 7:16 AM by Sepplord

having a non-task-zone as unofficial 8vs8 roam map is far from being an arena battle. You still don't know who you will meet, you still don't know when or where you will meet.

by "slogging thorugh" the unfun (as the 8mans claim) taskzones they add to their own problem instead of having fun somewhere else. OR they value RR-progression higher than fun fights...which is fine, but then don't complain about not having fun fights.