Speed tokens - Phoenix Freeshard

Hey guys

Any chance you could add speed tokens that we could buy for mayby BPs?
That way, its not only speed classes that have a chance to solo/duo somewhere Els than keeps..
I would love to go somewhere Els to fight, but if i loose speed/engage a fight in the middle of nowhere, it takes to long to go anywhere els...

Just speed 5 Or something, give us a chance to roam the solo spots too!

Mon 10 Feb 2020 8:19 PM by Quik

Or play a class that is meant to have speed.

The second this happens every class will be demanding special abilities from other classes.

Plz no on speed tokens/charges/pots/horses whatever...

Tue 11 Feb 2020 9:25 AM by kosen

Am not demanding “special” abilities from other classes, Its just frustrating that you haft to play a class with speed to compete here.. i dont want like instant speed 6, but like a speed token you Can use out of combat, with mayby a timer. Just to get around abit faster!

Tue 11 Feb 2020 10:12 AM by Razur Ur

We need only a stone with speed buff cast time 10 seconds and all is fine.

Tue 11 Feb 2020 12:53 PM by Pao

Some leveled a speed class for this reason ... they have speed.

Maybe give caster speed 1 as 10sec token but no faster. Make it cost a lot of gold since we need more gold sinks.

Wed 12 Feb 2020 11:23 AM by Thisisfubar99

People might say "well play a speed class then" but he makes a great point.

First of all you barely see any solos roaming other spots than Bled/Crau/Beno > Docks wich is boring repetitive shit. And ofc it's a hotspot to get added / zerged as soon as you engage something because half the playerbase just sits in front of said keeps and waits for some fight to start at bridge / docks and runs with hastener speed to leech. This is why the solo / smallman gameplay is stale.

Secondly the only people it might realistically punish would be solo RM / Enchant / Warden / Sorc (and as far as i know their red speed is still faster than hastener). Classes that i almost never meet solo.

I think like he said, the issue is people won't roam around unconventional spots / further away from docks / keeps because once they enter combat and lose hastener speed even if they win the fight then they are a sitting duck with no speed for sometimes forever.

I play minstrel and skald mostly and i wouldn't have a problem with people getting speed gems because at least i might find other classes to fight solo. And i would probably start soloing on other classes too to be fair.

I think making speed tokens is something that would rejuvenate solo play and make the rvr more interesting because we will see solos play more varied classes and also have more people roam around further from docks etc.

Wed 12 Feb 2020 12:56 PM by Razur Ur

Pao wrote: ↑
Tue 11 Feb 2020 12:53 PM
Some leveled a speed class for this reason ... they have speed.

Maybe give caster speed 1 as 10sec token but no faster. Make it cost a lot of gold since we need more gold sinks.

reach the same speed how you get from the docks npc´s because caster speed is faster. And the some guys where leveled a class with speed
have not every time for another player without speed or have self group or dont like duo/smallgroup joining ;-).

Thu 13 Feb 2020 1:50 PM by Pao

Caster speed 1 is 123%, so dock and keep speed is still faster.

Thu 13 Feb 2020 2:38 PM by Razur Ur

Pao wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Feb 2020 1:50 PM
Caster speed 1 is 123%, so dock and keep speed is still faster.

LoL caster speed is a baseline group pulse buff and have a value from 153 speed and is faster how from hastener!!!

https://playphoenix.online/charplan/?class=Enchanter&level=50&realmRank=30&view=skills&s59=45

Thu 13 Feb 2020 3:34 PM by rocketait

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Feb 2020 2:38 PM
Pao wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Feb 2020 1:50 PM
Caster speed 1 is 123%, so dock and keep speed is still faster.

LoL caster speed is a baseline group pulse buff and have a value from 153 speed and is faster how from hastener!!!

https://playphoenix.online/charplan/?class=Enchanter&level=50&realmRank=30&view=skills&s59=45

They said caster speed 1 (which is 123%) but I can see how that could be confused for caster speed at lvl 50 (which is 154%) as that's what rvrs : ). I'm down with anything that helps people get from one point to another. However, there is a chance it will string the action out and I don't know how I feel about that. You could add a few more hasteners around the map (watering holes kind of) so that if you get into a fight you can always go to one of them and get your speed back. Might be nice to make them nuatral so that any realm can use them (and I don't know make them kill able if you wanted)? Just ideas that might satisfy the ops "need" but in different ways...

Thu 13 Feb 2020 5:35 PM by imweasel

Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Feb 2020 8:19 PM
Or play a class that is meant to have speed.

The second this happens every class will be demanding special abilities from other classes.

Plz no on speed tokens/charges/pots/horses whatever...

Terrible argument. I guess you are suggesting that all pots get removed then? I mean if you want buffs, you should roll a buffing class or group with one? Need endurance you should roll a class that has an endurance buff or chant?

Put in speed pots, stones or whatever. Make them equal to caster speed 4ish.

Thu 13 Feb 2020 7:49 PM by Cadebrennus

imweasel wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Feb 2020 5:35 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Feb 2020 8:19 PM
Or play a class that is meant to have speed.

The second this happens every class will be demanding special abilities from other classes.

Plz no on speed tokens/charges/pots/horses whatever...

Terrible argument. I guess you are suggesting that all pots get removed then? I mean if you want buffs, you should roll a buffing class or group with one? Need endurance you should roll a class that has an endurance buff or chant?

Put in speed pots, stones or whatever. Make them equal to caster speed 4ish.

Agreed. This will boost solo/smallman action

Thu 13 Feb 2020 10:16 PM by joshisanonymous

I think having hasteners all over the place like we have no is a good compromise. I'm always solo on a non-speed class and I rarely get stuck very far away from a hastener. Remember, it's not just keeps: you can use hasteners at any dock, even enemy docks, there are also some random hasteners in places like the maze in Alb. If you're solo, you also have direct ports between realms at the solo zones; I never even take boats anymore because of that.

I think the real reason that few people wander away from the keeps is not because they won't have speed after a fight, it's because they don't want to die in a place that they can't instantly get back to or they want to circle their own keeps to ensure that they have backup any time they get into a fight. Like someone said, there are several caster speed classes that don't need hasteners, yet you don't see them running around solo too much anyway.

Fri 14 Feb 2020 12:02 AM by Isavyr

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Thu 13 Feb 2020 10:16 PM
I think having hasteners all over the place like we have no is a good compromise. I'm always solo on a non-speed class and I rarely get stuck very far away from a hastener. Remember, it's not just keeps: you can use hasteners at any dock, even enemy docks, there are also some random hasteners in places like the maze in Alb. If you're solo, you also have direct ports between realms at the solo zones; I never even take boats anymore because of that.

I think the real reason that few people wander away from the keeps is not because they won't have speed after a fight, it's because they don't want to die in a place that they can't instantly get back to or they want to circle their own keeps to ensure that they have backup any time they get into a fight. Like someone said, there are several caster speed classes that don't need hasteners, yet you don't see them running around solo too much anyway.

Also, classes aren't well balanced in 1v1. Many classes are retardedly strong in 1v1--for example, a decent necro will easily beat the majority of melee--while others are so weak in 1v1, like the bard, that their speed does little for them.

At any rate, I think speed tokens should not be implemented. Hasteners already serve this purpose well, and, if anything, these hasteners should be added to new objectives (capturable bridges, maybe capturable mini forts--there is a lot of unused forts at the moment) which cater to small man whom benefit from this speed.

Incidentally, I would love to see hastener speed become disabled during combat, but remain as a buff that becomes active once combat ends. However, to keep 150% speed providing classes relevant while not affecting general RvR balance (we don't expect solo Armsman to get speed again), the hastener speed should only resume after the player is out of combat for 30s (would require further coding, I imagine).

Fri 14 Feb 2020 12:06 AM by The Skies Asunder

Designing a game in which having the maximum speed possible is required to compete in the primary setting, then restricting that speed to one class, was a terrible design choice to begin with. I have no issue with BP hastener speed tokens to move around a bit quicker for the solo/smallmans of the world. Hopefully it would encourage people to run around a bit more, as has been stated previously in this thread.

Fri 14 Feb 2020 9:05 AM by kosen

As already Said, Its all about spreading the action abit, get some real 1v1/2v2/3v3 fights in the outskirts of the realm aswell. All this coastguarding/adding game, aint fun in the long run!
There is a lovely solo area, lets use it! I often run there, and the realize am the only one....

Sat 15 Feb 2020 11:19 AM by Luluko

I am asking for speed tokens since day one, but I dont see them ever getting implemented, the devs are stuck in the believe that you have to play 50 and grp up so they can have their nice 8vs8 fights I believe. They dont really want visible solos to be able to avoid their grps and lose out on a few rps.

Sat 15 Feb 2020 2:56 PM by rocketait

I would love speed tokens but I think we also have to think of what effect it will have on the game.

Like many have mentioned they want speed so they can roam as Solo's. one effect of players roaming is that it will reduce the action at solo hot spots as some will no longer be there but roaming. Is this bad/good depends on current pop I think.

This will reduce grouping (though I have no clue how much). As many mentioned again the only option is normally to group if you want speed. Some people dislike 8v8 some don't, but this will effect it at least the pub groups a bit.

This will make another barrier to entry into rvr (there is already lvl, gear, pots/buffs, and now speed gems). Let me explain, even though speed is a out of combat stat it lets players catch other players or evade slower players. If you are a solo without speed charges and a duo with speed gems sees you and wants to kill you, they can normally catch you (same problem many are complaining about full man's catching solos, but now every one without the new speed gem has it with all that do have the gem). It also would be a barrier to entry for small man's to when the 3 other guys pop there speed gem and your like ohh that's needed (I don't know how long your be in the group)? (Last note on this, some players don't care, they have money/ext but most games need at least a small influx of new players as no game has a 100% retention rate. I would try to do as little as possible to lower this while still keeping retention rate up, this normally means refusing barriers to entry into your core gameplay (lvl 50 rvr in our case)).

Along the same lines, it won't help solo get away from groups as it probably won't be max speed as that will have a whole nother set of effects. It will only be useful to get from one point to another (there may be another way to solve this), and to catch/evade people without gems (or caster speed if they do it that fast).

Though I personally would love to move a bit faster there are effects of a change like this that I fail to considered when I I'm cursing at how slow I am after a fight and how far away that hastener is. Just things to keep in mind.

Sat 15 Feb 2020 5:30 PM by Quik

If people want to water down the classes as much as people here are asking, why not just make it simple...

Get rid of all classes and just combine them into 1 and everyone can play the same class with the same abilities and you are done.

Personally, I enjoy the fact the game has multiple classes and I ENJOY the fact that if I want speed I need to play a class with speed.

My god, all I am hearing here is I love my class but it doesn't have an ability another class has so please give my class that ability because reasons.

DAoC was NOT designed to be a soloing game except stealthers and they weren't meant for roaming. DAoC was designed so a group could have a diverse set of abilities together. I am not saying soloers/small mans shouldn't play the game, but stop trying to alter the game so YOUR play style is easier for you. YOU need to adapt to the game. And please don't tell me how live has speed charges because if that's the case then we need to add champion levels and other crappy ideas as well.

Solo/small mans/8mans/zergs all have different things that appeal to different people and you have the option to play any of those style as long as you understand some play styles will be missing things the other play styles have.

The dev's have stated over and over they will NEVER add speed charges of any kind other then hasteners and I hope they stick with that decision and not cave to 1 faction, because as soon as THAT faction solo/small mans get special treatment, and make no mistake THIS WOULD BE SPECIAL TREATMENT, it will be a never ending slope of giving everyone what they want.

The people asking for this kind of crap are only interested in how THEY want to play instead of the server as a whole.

If you want speed play a class with speed...simple. If you want a class that has high DPS then play a high DPS class. Stop asking to merge classes to suit YOUR play style.

Sat 15 Feb 2020 5:53 PM by gotwqqd

Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Feb 2020 5:30 PM
If people want to water down the classes as much as people here are asking, why not just make it simple...

Get rid of all classes and just combine them into 1 and everyone can play the same class with the same abilities and you are done.

Personally, I enjoy the fact the game has multiple classes and I ENJOY the fact that if I want speed I need to play a class with speed.

My god, all I am hearing here is I love my class but it doesn't have an ability another class has so please give my class that ability because reasons.

DAoC was NOT designed to be a soloing game except stealthers and they weren't meant for roaming. DAoC was designed so a group could have a diverse set of abilities together. I am not saying soloers/small mans shouldn't play the game, but stop trying to alter the game so YOUR play style is easier for you. YOU need to adapt to the game. And please don't tell me how live has speed charges because if that's the case then we need to add champion levels and other crappy ideas as well.

Solo/small mans/8mans/zergs all have different things that appeal to different people and you have the option to play any of those style as long as you understand some play styles will be missing things the other play styles have.

The dev's have stated over and over they will NEVER add speed charges of any kind other then hasteners and I hope they stick with that decision and not cave to 1 faction, because as soon as THAT faction solo/small mans get special treatment, and make no mistake THIS WOULD BE SPECIAL TREATMENT, it will be a never ending slope of giving everyone what they want.

The people asking for this kind of crap are only interested in how THEY want to play instead of the server as a whole.

If you want speed play a class with speed...simple. If you want a class that has high DPS then play a high DPS class. Stop asking to merge classes to suit YOUR play style.

So a fun thing to think about
You get 1.0x per level skill points

Spec using any lines from a particular realm
You get the base lines from what spec lines you choose.
If only choose 2 spec lines you get choose a third base line
I’m sure most alb realm will include wiz matter line as primary or secondary

Sat 15 Feb 2020 6:05 PM by Luluko

rocketait wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Feb 2020 2:56 PM
I would love speed tokens but I think we also have to think of what effect it will have on the game.

Like many have mentioned they want speed so they can roam as Solo's. one effect of players roaming is that it will reduce the action at solo hot spots as some will no longer be there but roaming. Is this bad/good depends on current pop I think.

This will reduce grouping (though I have no clue how much). As many mentioned again the only option is normally to group if you want speed. Some people dislike 8v8 some don't, but this will effect it at least the pub groups a bit.

This will make another barrier to entry into rvr (there is already lvl, gear, pots/buffs, and now speed gems). Let me explain, even though speed is a out of combat stat it lets players catch other players or evade slower players. If you are a solo without speed charges and a duo with speed gems sees you and wants to kill you, they can normally catch you (same problem many are complaining about full man's catching solos, but now every one without the new speed gem has it with all that do have the gem). It also would be a barrier to entry for small man's to when the 3 other guys pop there speed gem and your like ohh that's needed (I don't know how long your be in the group)? (Last note on this, some players don't care, they have money/ext but most games need at least a small influx of new players as no game has a 100% retention rate. I would try to do as little as possible to lower this while still keeping retention rate up, this normally means refusing barriers to entry into your core gameplay (lvl 50 rvr in our case)).

Along the same lines, it won't help solo get away from groups as it probably won't be max speed as that will have a whole nother set of effects. It will only be useful to get from one point to another (there may be another way to solve this), and to catch/evade people without gems (or caster speed if they do it that fast).

Though I personally would love to move a bit faster there are effects of a change like this that I fail to considered when I I'm cursing at how slow I am after a fight and how far away that hastener is. Just things to keep in mind.

You assume all those solos which roam are players from the population phoenix has now, and not those people which stopped already because they are tired of having to play speed/stealth classes if they wanna solo.

And when it comes to avoid grps with that speed its not about outrunning them but if you pan and can hide behind a tree or some other object so that they dont see you then even gimp speed is enough for that. Also solo players like to start with soloing but dont mind to run grps aswell and make friends and maybe even start running smallman in the future, but it has to start somewhere and if those solo players cant avoid hot spots by roaming so that they dont get added or zerged by grps then they will prolly just dont play if they are bored from playing a speed class or stealther.

Sat 15 Feb 2020 6:32 PM by Quik

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Feb 2020 5:53 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Feb 2020 5:30 PM
If people want to water down the classes as much as people here are asking, why not just make it simple...

Get rid of all classes and just combine them into 1 and everyone can play the same class with the same abilities and you are done.

Personally, I enjoy the fact the game has multiple classes and I ENJOY the fact that if I want speed I need to play a class with speed.

My god, all I am hearing here is I love my class but it doesn't have an ability another class has so please give my class that ability because reasons.

DAoC was NOT designed to be a soloing game except stealthers and they weren't meant for roaming. DAoC was designed so a group could have a diverse set of abilities together. I am not saying soloers/small mans shouldn't play the game, but stop trying to alter the game so YOUR play style is easier for you. YOU need to adapt to the game. And please don't tell me how live has speed charges because if that's the case then we need to add champion levels and other crappy ideas as well.

Solo/small mans/8mans/zergs all have different things that appeal to different people and you have the option to play any of those style as long as you understand some play styles will be missing things the other play styles have.

The dev's have stated over and over they will NEVER add speed charges of any kind other then hasteners and I hope they stick with that decision and not cave to 1 faction, because as soon as THAT faction solo/small mans get special treatment, and make no mistake THIS WOULD BE SPECIAL TREATMENT, it will be a never ending slope of giving everyone what they want.

The people asking for this kind of crap are only interested in how THEY want to play instead of the server as a whole.

If you want speed play a class with speed...simple. If you want a class that has high DPS then play a high DPS class. Stop asking to merge classes to suit YOUR play style.
So a fun thing to think about
You get 1.0x per level skill points

Spec using any lines from a particular realm
You get the base lines from what spec lines you choose.
If only choose 2 spec lines you get choose a third base line
I’m sure most alb realm will include wiz matter line as primary or secondary

That could be a really fun idea, the only problem I would see is kind of what you mentioned. You would have a couple lines picked every time so if randomly there are 50 lines to pick from, you would probably get the same ones over and over. 1-2 for a dps style, 2-3 for support, etc.

Games like PoE have similar ideas and some of them are fun. I just tend to be more old school and like picking a class and working within its limits.

Tue 18 Feb 2020 4:08 PM by imweasel

Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Feb 2020 5:30 PM
If people want to water down the classes as much as people here are asking, why not just make it simple...

Get rid of all classes and just combine them into 1 and everyone can play the same class with the same abilities and you are done.

Personally, I enjoy the fact the game has multiple classes and I ENJOY the fact that if I want speed I need to play a class with speed.

My god, all I am hearing here is I love my class but it doesn't have an ability another class has so please give my class that ability because reasons.

DAoC was NOT designed to be a soloing game except stealthers and they weren't meant for roaming. DAoC was designed so a group could have a diverse set of abilities together. I am not saying soloers/small mans shouldn't play the game, but stop trying to alter the game so YOUR play style is easier for you. YOU need to adapt to the game. And please don't tell me how live has speed charges because if that's the case then we need to add champion levels and other crappy ideas as well.

Solo/small mans/8mans/zergs all have different things that appeal to different people and you have the option to play any of those style as long as you understand some play styles will be missing things the other play styles have.

The dev's have stated over and over they will NEVER add speed charges of any kind other then hasteners and I hope they stick with that decision and not cave to 1 faction, because as soon as THAT faction solo/small mans get special treatment, and make no mistake THIS WOULD BE SPECIAL TREATMENT, it will be a never ending slope of giving everyone what they want.

The people asking for this kind of crap are only interested in how THEY want to play instead of the server as a whole.

If you want speed play a class with speed...simple. If you want a class that has high DPS then play a high DPS class. Stop asking to merge classes to suit YOUR play style.

Wow. Ignorance is bliss. Bad arguments in general are a waste of time.

Do you know how many classes have been made extinct with potions already? Instead of whining here you should be making a suggestion to remove all pots from the game.

Pots currently do not cover speed, damage add and resists. The only one you absolutely cannot get by without in rvr is speed.

I think this QoL is an excellent idea. Would get more folks into rvr. Make the charge last 10min and make it disappear once in combat like hastener now. Don't allow it to be recast on the move or until you have been out of combat for a number of seconds.

Forcing 1-7 other people in a group to not be able to move as needed (or even break up) due to a missing essential "buff" in rvr is ridiculous.