Some Summoning Spiritmaster love... ?

Started 30 Apr 2021
by thalamar
in Suggestions
Hello there.
Summoning for the spiritmaster is skilled for two reasons mainly:

the ressurect on lvl 23
to have a very chilled leveling experince on the border to falling asleep

and for many people, this is just fine, but what if.. we make an improvement there?

on liveservers, the summoing line has completely changed, and that's their cup of tea for sure.

Let me quickly point out the strenghtes of the summoning line at the current state on phoenix:
- Pet-Snare-Proc: 10% prochance to snare the target for some ammount for 10 sec is a nice thing, to get away from threads - which is quite the only real lifesafer beside root - it is a bit random though. I really liked the implementation of root and desease for enchanter-pets - perhaps this could be quite useful for cabalists and summoners as well.

- Pet-Mezzduration-reduction: - up to 55% - not too bad though - but you will rareley survive 20-30 seconds in pure melee anyways.

- Str/Con / Dex/Qui Pet-Buffs: does this even do anything at all? like doing 44 damage instead of 40 or something like that? it seems quite insignificant, expecially considering, that pet hp and thus survivability of pets is pretty low.

- you have the realm-damageshield and the pet-focus-damageshield in that line as well - which is good if the pet is hit - but who does that anyway if you can get rid of it by killing the caster.

The wonderful petline of midgard provides the pet more and more procs for the advancing pet-versions, starting with the (in)famous stunproc for the lvl 7 pet and other things as dd-proc, lifedrain-dd-proc and self-bubble.

Additionally, the pet is able to intercept blows of melee-attacks if it is nearby. Just keep that in your mind.

So.. but how to improve that without destroying the game-balance completeley?

Here are some ideas:

A: Pet-Bubble-Proc affects the whole group.

Idea: When the bubble-proc of the pet procs (10% Proc chance), it will bubble the whole group in a 1500 radius.

Benefit: Everyone in the group is happy, when this procs. 10% is not too often, so it shouldn't make the class op with that change, but it provides quite some more value than before - to make it unique to the summoning-line, this could be a high-level (40+) skillpoint-pet-buff, which alters the spell to group-target.

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B: Other Pet-Focus-Spell-Types.

Idea: Add other types of focus spells to the pet. What kind of types you ask? Well - you know the necro- and animist-pbaes, which will be channeled through the pet? how about a focus-pbae-spell cast on the pet. so with every pulse, the bomb-spell will trigger around the pet. I can also imagine to make this pbae duration-based (like it pulses 5 times over 10 seconds after the spell is cast.

Benefit: a plusing pbae around the pet causes quite a thread to everything around it and may force people to get rid of the pet quickly (or you mezz/root it as usual) - still - this would add some kind of danger level. It can be taken a step further and be a pet-damage-shield with a pbaoe-pulse component.

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C: Pet-Intercept %-chance increases with points in summoing

Idea: With the theme of summoing to have a strong, useful pet, how about to add pet-Intercept-Bonuses on certain levels of Summoing (like 10, 20, 30, 40, 50), to help the summoner to survive physical encounters. As we know, Summoning has not dd- nor dot-spell in its base- or spec-line, so his offensive potential is quite low. This would at least raise his defensive potential further.

Benefit: with a very high pet-intercept rate, you are able to cast spells more frequently or you are even be able to cast your focus-damage-shield in melee - with enough intercepts, the melee oponent will take quite severe damage from the 33.2 dps dmg-shield of the pet. This change would need quite careful balancing, since it could quickly lead to a lot of frustration to any melee-opponent to not be able to do anything to the caster with some bad luck. On the other hand, the pet will not sustain many hits anyways.

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D: Pet-Proc %-chance increases with points into summonig

Idea: to make the pet of the summoner more potent in pet-proc-potential than to other skill lines would add some potential to the skill line.

Benefit: Since you are sacrificing a lot of offensive potential when speccing summoning, the theme of getting a more potent pet could be reflected in a (significant?) higher pet-proc-rate for all its procs. I can imagine, like with the enhancement-enchanter, to get certain buffs at 40/50 points in summoing. They would then raise the overall pet-proc-rate for all its procs by 10/20% (and if the bubble-proc would be a group-buff then as well.. just imagine..).

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E: Give Summoing spells, which are cast through the pet

Idea: like the Enchanter, you receive certain spells which can be cast through your pet - though you are still attackable all the time. When your pet casts a spell, it cannot intercept during its cast duration. e.g. a Lifedrain, which heals the summoner, if the pet is on full life.

Benefit: You can take a more active role in combat with these pet-spells, but you are still relyant on your pet and if you decide to cast with it, your defensive abilities are diminished through the missing intercept ability.

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F: Give higher ressurcet-levels on higher summoing skill

Idea: the first ressurect is quite a nice benefit - how about to even bring in higher ressurection-levels into it to bring in further value to summoing?

Benefit: getting higher ressurcet values like in other lines with resurrect will make the summoing line more useful - I can imagine an option to unlock the perfect rez - realmability to spiritmasters, who speced 50 points into summoning. (or make it an ability in that tree) This will not help to summoner to be more useful in the fight in an offensive way, but for people, who just love summoning and stick with it, it would be a welcoming benefit.

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That's it for now - I am aware, that many changes would make it more difficult to kill a spiritmaster, which will raise quite some negativity about these ideas. But just ask yourself at this point: would it be more fun, if you would play it for yourself? These changes are not ment to make this class overpowered, but to make it a considerable option to choose from.

Feel free to share you thoughts, critiques and opinions on these ideas, idealy with a good reason as well, and maybe even bring up ideas to improve them, if you like some of that ideas, to bring it into a clearer shape and form.

Thank you.
Sat 1 May 2021 9:57 PM by Magesty
I would have no issue seeing some of this stuff get tested assuming the abilities are deep enough into the summoning line that it is its own spec rather than simply empowering the others.

I never understood why lines like summoning weren’t given powerful abilities. As a caster you can only spec high into one spell line, why is there no actual payoff in so many of them?
Sun 2 May 2021 12:20 AM by Babajaga
There's nothing wrong with sm when well played and knowledge of the class.
End of discussion.
Sun 2 May 2021 2:23 AM by Magesty
Babajaga wrote:
Sun 2 May 2021 12:20 AM
There's nothing wrong with sm when well played and knowledge of the class.
End of discussion.

If there is design space to make another spec viable, in solo play for example, why would you not want that to be taken advantage of? If done correctly it would only add another play style option to a class you seem to really care about.

No one is saying the class is bad.
Sun 2 May 2021 4:18 AM by Babajaga
Magesty wrote:
Sun 2 May 2021 2:23 AM
Babajaga wrote:
Sun 2 May 2021 12:20 AM
There's nothing wrong with sm when well played and knowledge of the class.
End of discussion.

If there is design space to make another spec viable, in solo play for example, why would you not want that to be taken advantage of? If done correctly it would only add another play style option to a class you seem to really care about.

No one is saying the class is bad.

Some of recent classes changes had been made about QQing about players which dont know to play their classes and some of them even didnt need upgrades like adding merc rear snare.

People want moslty changes and balances where is not needed.
I have a bunch of other classes on mind already at first who need a priority boost than sm asking for a intercept increasing when the "passive put" of pet concept focus more on taken opponent dmg.

Ppl have to l2p.
Sun 2 May 2021 6:32 AM by Astaa
Pet intercept needs lowering by 50%

The caster arms race needs to be addressed in its entirety. When we're done all casters will have been boosted, and we will be back at square one. Except tanks will have been left even further behind.
Sun 2 May 2021 7:12 AM by easytoremember
Above ~40 in the line a buff providing moderate chance for pet to style (damage and less miss chance), and a separate buff closer to 50 for a backstyle (similar damage even less miss chance). Thematically the line is based around recalling spirits/wrath of/from valhalla so I don't think it's out of place when it is packaged as a proc rather than a style the pet knows (conditional proc in the case of backstyle, like prevent flight)

For the self BT becoming a group BT proc I thought to add another pet summon instead of a proc buff but couldn't come up with a name fitting the fighter/swordsman/warrior/champion chain.
Sun 2 May 2021 11:02 AM by thalamar
Babajaga wrote: There's nothing wrong with sm when well played and knowledge of the class.
End of discussion.

Insetead of proclaiming weak arguments like "just play better" you perhaps can bring up the advantages of the specline, that make them competitive enough from your point of view.

The summon line is a bit away from a state where you just need to play better to make it work and beside that, a player who claims to be able to make every class work, no matter which spells and abliities are in there, does not represent a common playerbase either, but just a quite narrow, elitist mindset without an ambition to improve things in a balanced and constructive way, where improvement would be a positive and welcome thing - at least for people like me, who love the theme of a line and make thoughts and bring in ideas for more tools to work with without destroying the balance of things.
Sun 2 May 2021 11:31 AM by DJ2000
The Devs vision to make all classes viable, doesn't mean that all spellines/playstyle of class will be viable as well.

They don't want a smite-cleric to be viable, or a Nature Druid, or a Solo Warden, or an Enchantment Enchanter, or a Summoning Spiritmaster etc. etc. etc.

Class balance is mostly (not entirely) balanced around 8man.
A summoning Spiritmaster would bring almost no benefit to an 8man as is. It would need a complete overhaul (like Live did) to make it even remotely viable.
If not, then these spiritmasters would just complain that nobody wants them in any Grps (rvr/pve), or as it is now, that the entire summoning spell line is simply not "viable".

The current "view" is simply based around the Damage type (Setup): Elemental (Heat/Cold/Matter) and Spiritual (Body/Energy/Spirit).
In the case of the Spiritmaster that means: Dark being Elemental, and Suppression being Spiritual.
The third line is just "there" and will be (like in the Enchanters case) the spare line to put some stuff/abilites inside, to complement the other spell lines and the Class as a whole, but not to strengthen the spell line itself.
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