Reward for Leading RvR BG / Keep Retake

Having an active BG livens up the action. Many people just log off if there is no active BG in their realm. It's just much easier and quicker to find action to join a BG, instead of trying to form a group to roam.

There are only a few active BG leaders, and when they log off, the action tends to die. Only a few are willing to lead BG's, and some give up after a few times, it's a thankless job.

How about we give rewards for BG leads? Some possible rewards:
- 3x RP bonus on kills RP's.
- 5x bonus RP for tower/keep take.
- Increase the bonus for more people to join/actively participate in the BG.
- 5x Task RP bonus. (need to think about this one more, as people can exploit this by forming a BG to do a task, then afking)

The point is to encourage people to stand up to form BG's to liven up the action.
During NA prime time and late nights, there are usually no BG's and the action is really slow.

Fri 22 Nov 2019 8:54 AM by Sepplord

very hard to do without making it abusable and rewards would need to scale with BG-participants

but it could also have an adverse effect, people not joining/following specific BG-leaders because "they don't deserve my bonus-RPs", multiple competing BGs and/or general toxicity/envy "why does this person get more RPs while i don't get bonus for doing XYZ"

Fri 22 Nov 2019 8:56 AM by inoeth

oh boy i would so lead a BG then but just invite my guild and make everyone leader lol

Fri 22 Nov 2019 9:04 AM by Wolfir666

The idea itself makes a lot of sense, that is true.
But to be honest, i do not think, that it would work out in the end.

It just would lead to half a dozen open BGs at a time (or more..), where several people want to open a BG, making it a lot harder to coordinate action together between these BGs.

Actually i can't think of a way, where it wouldn't lead to even more problems in the end due to either no combined forces anymore (no, not the pot^^) or lots of bad blood between the various leaders who take away the people from each other.

Fri 22 Nov 2019 9:53 AM by Lollie

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 8:54 AM
very hard to do without making it abusable and rewards would need to scale with BG-participants

inoeth wrote: oh boy i would so lead a BG then but just invite my guild and make everyone leader lol

It took 2 minutes for someone to find a way to abuse it

Fri 22 Nov 2019 11:23 AM by Goforit

Go hib. There you have bg 24/7

Fri 22 Nov 2019 9:39 PM by Forlornhope

Yes let's give more rewards for hitting doors, this is exactly what we need.

Fri 22 Nov 2019 9:49 PM by Forlornhope

Their reward is all the people who constantly join their bgs and being able to get high rr wither little to no effort.

Fri 22 Nov 2019 9:55 PM by Wolfir666

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 9:39 PM
Yes let's give more rewards for hitting doors, this is exactly what we need.

Hey doors are evil!
All doors need to fall!
Let's all fight for a (preferably enemy) realm without doors!
^^

Fri 22 Nov 2019 10:32 PM by Vkejai

You would then have multiple BGs , there would never be any keep takes going on then .

Sat 23 Nov 2019 2:36 AM by Riac

rewarding the zerg leaders, no ty. you should be rewarded for not participating in the zerg imo.

Wed 27 Nov 2019 2:59 AM by mattymc

Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Nov 2019 2:36 AM
rewarding the zerg leaders, no ty. you should be rewarded for not participating in the zerg imo.

I think you don't understand what the Massively means in MMO

Wed 27 Nov 2019 8:13 AM by Sepplord

mattymc wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Nov 2019 2:59 AM
Riac wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Nov 2019 2:36 AM
rewarding the zerg leaders, no ty. you should be rewarded for not participating in the zerg imo.

I think you don't understand what the Massively means in MMO

if you want to argue semantics...i don't think you picked a very good one to make your case....or are you saying basically 90% of MMOs are not really MMOs but daoc is...as long as people zerg in RvR?

Wed 7 Oct 2020 5:55 PM by tech27

Bump.
Currently there are no public BG's other than outside Euro times.
There are 2-3 regular BG leaders in each realm. When they log off, most casuals log off too.

Some incentives for people to step up to lead BG's would be nice, to increase action and get people out to RvR. If there are multiple BG's for a realm at one time, maybe that's a good thing to have -- multiple mini zergs instead of one big zerg to fight. People are so used to having one big zerg

Yes, it can and will be exploited, but we can find solutions.

- RP bonus added to RvR task tick and Keep Take ticks for leading BG. Limit bonus to one BG lead per BG.
- New Titles reserved for leading BG for # of kills, # of tower/keeps taken, # of tower/keep defenses, # of times BG size achieved certain size (50+, 100+ etc)
- Limit one BG lead can have BG leader bonuses.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 6:29 PM by DinoTriz

EDIT: I just realized the comment above me has a lot of these fixes...
Here's an idea....give the bonus to the first person to make (and lead) a BG.

If that person quits, then the bonus is available again and it goes to the first person to make another BG.

Also, the bonus/BG cannot be handed off to friends. It needs to be a fresh BG, if the old BG leader quits.

That would cut down on abuse and wouldn't lead to 986 BGs being created at the same time.

If someone knows they'll lose the bonus if they log off - they'll take lead more seriously and stay at it as long as possible.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 7:01 PM by Lokkjim

If you want to incentivize people to lead, then help them lead. Not by telling them how to run the BG but by giving them information about enemy movements and keep fires and such. Help them help the BG and win/stay alive and they'll want to keep leading.

Now, I'm not saying spy on discord or whatever, but spy in the game and watch the realm map and support their decisions in the BG. If you really have an issue with leadership, take it to private tells, don't blurt it out in the discord or BG.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 8:10 PM by DinoTriz

Lokkjim wrote: ↑
Wed 7 Oct 2020 7:01 PM
If you want to incentivize people to lead, then help them lead. Not by telling them how to run the BG but by giving them information about enemy movements and keep fires and such. Help them help the BG and win/stay alive and they'll want to keep leading.

Now, I'm not saying spy on discord or whatever, but spy in the game and watch the realm map and support their decisions in the BG. If you really have an issue with leadership, take it to private tells, don't blurt it out in the discord or BG.

It would be cool to get the perspective of the current BG leaders.

What motivates them, what discourages them, etc.

Because if we could accommodate those handful of people, that would be great.

But at the same time, they can't always be online. There should be a way to incentivize new BG leaders to form.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 8:28 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Nov 2019 8:54 AM
very hard to do without making it abusable and rewards would need to scale with BG-participants

but it could also have an adverse effect, people not joining/following specific BG-leaders because "they don't deserve my bonus-RPs", multiple competing BGs and/or general toxicity/envy "why does this person get more RPs while i don't get bonus for doing XYZ"

Nailed it.

Wed 7 Oct 2020 9:40 PM by Gildar

Interesting thing.

But this topic cannot be tackled from the end, i.e. from rewards to BG Leaders, but from the beginning.

Who are the BG Leaders?
Players who sacrifice their game to lead (and endure) other players, who take the blame when they lose and NOBODY (or very few) thanks when they win.

How do you become a BG Leader?
With charisma, attention, strategy, skill, leadership and .... LOTS of patience and calm.

Should BG LEADERS be rewarded?

For sure ! Without them the server population would be 30% of the current one. All the casual players would already be gone, because as before said ... when BG leaders log off 50% of people in BG log too ... and in the end the few 8v8 pro-players would be leaving server too with no easy RPs to do.

Each realm has some BG LEADER, on Hibernia we have Pilz, Gilboom and Smap ... for example.

Rewards (exclusive titles, RP bonuses,
or other see GM) should be given at the end of the month to those who drive BG at least 15 times in a month, gathering at least 30 toons in BG. And BG have to be active for almost 90 mins.
In this manner no one can make a BG 2 or 3 times for few minuts or afk and gain the bonuses.
Or it should only be given to the 3 best established and recognized BG LEADERS in any Realm ...
new ones should do the BG at least 15 times in a month by gathering at least 30 toons in BG for 3 months to become established BG LEADERS and earn the rewards.

Imho.

Thu 8 Oct 2020 6:24 AM by Sepplord

I see an issue with rewards for BG leads, and that is additional toxicity

Afaik (correct me if i am wrong, i don't play BG) the biggest issue BG leaders have is that people question their decisions all the time, argue in chat about every order and in general undermine the leaders authority

With BG leaders getting a bonus it would become even worse/harder for a new leader to become accepted because he would not "deserve the support" "we won't help you get the title/whatever reward".
Even without rewards i have heard of competing BGs and active "member-stealing" etc...

Would rewards really encourage the "right" people to become additional realmleaders? Or would it just encourage a few reward-hungry people to slog through the toxicity to become the reward?

Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:02 PM by Gildar

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 6:24 AM
I see an issue with rewards for BG leads, and that is additional toxicity

Afaik (correct me if i am wrong, i don't play BG) the biggest issue BG leaders have is that people question their decisions all the time, argue in chat about every order and in general undermine the leaders authority

With BG leaders getting a bonus it would become even worse/harder for a new leader to become accepted because he would not "deserve the support" "we won't help you get the title/whatever reward".
Even without rewards i have heard of competing BGs and active "member-stealing" etc...

Would rewards really encourage the "right" people to become additional realmleaders? Or would it just encourage a few reward-hungry people to slog through the toxicity to become the reward?

Good point ... but it is clear you dont play BG.

I can talk only for Hib: when Pilz log any other current BG leader pass BG to Pilz. No need to discuss nothing.

When Pilz log he pass BG to Gilboom or Smap ... no one discuss on that. When Gilboom / Smap log ... BG crumble.

They are established BG leaders and almost no one discuss their decision while BG is running.

Gilboom and Smap lead whatever first open BG... the 2nd that log is promoted istantly co-leader ... no discussion.

But i can imagine you are right on new BG leaders.

I come here following Gilboom (we play together on live) and also him have to do an really hard work to deserve the respect and support of all Hibs ...

But now Hibs know him and know he deserve all support they can do ... he is calm, patient, positive and never ragequit ... also when some noob reset 3 times a keep Lord or BG is wipe by albs.

He hold on also with only 2 fg following him.

In the end, i really believe BG leaders deserve some reward.

Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:05 PM by Forlornhope

The bg leader's rewards is the massive amount of rps they get running the bgs already, they don't need more.

Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:17 PM by Gildar

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:05 PM
The bg leader's rewards is the massive amount of rps they get running the bgs already, they don't need more.

You believe ?

LOL

Look at Gilboom stats on herald ... or Smap stats ...
You have a surprise. They do less RP than many other players ... that's are numbers ... not blabla .

They gain far less RP than they deserve for the hard work they do ...

They are high RR ???
Sure ... but they play many more hours than others players .... last week Gilboom gain about 5k RP per hour ... not a great reward i think ....

Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:33 PM by Forlornhope

Gildar wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:17 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:05 PM
The bg leader's rewards is the massive amount of rps they get running the bgs already, they don't need more.

You believe ?

LOL

Look at Gilboom stats on herald ... or Smap stats ...
You have a surprise. They do less RP than many other players ... that's are numbers ... not blabla .

They gain far less RP than they deserve for the hard work they do ...

They are high RR ???
Sure ... but they play many more hours than others players .... last week Gilboom gain about 5k RP per hour ... not a great reward i think ....

Running in the bgs is the fastest and easiest way to gain rps, if they didn't do so hot last week well that's not really an effective way to gauge anything. Fact is, until they actually nerfed the gains by taking undefended structures it was a superior form of gaining rps. Now they actually have to fight other people or take things that are defended, as it should be, to make up for the loss from that rp gain nerf. If you go back a few months I am sure their average rp gains were much higher. Now that it's actually balanced out again, you're trying to revive this thread that's been dead for a year because you don't think you or your leaders are gaining enough for taking towers. Tough titties man, try running out solo on anything under rr7 then compare your rp gains to that. I think you'll find your rvr bg leaders are still averaging more rps a week if they're playing the same amount of time as said low rr soloer. The only thing that's probably better than running in the bg for rps is running in a well set up 8man.

Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:52 PM by Runental

A /bg leader reward wont help anyway, if people just simply not interested in any realm defence/takes. so i dont think BG rewards will change anything.
Do it with passion and conviction, or just don't do it. Thats all.

Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:56 PM by Gildar

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:33 PM
Gildar wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:17 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:05 PM
The bg leader's rewards is the massive amount of rps they get running the bgs already, they don't need more.

You believe ?

LOL

Look at Gilboom stats on herald ... or Smap stats ...
You have a surprise. They do less RP than many other players ... that's are numbers ... not blabla .

They gain far less RP than they deserve for the hard work they do ...

They are high RR ???
Sure ... but they play many more hours than others players .... last week Gilboom gain about 5k RP per hour ... not a great reward i think ....

Running in the bgs is the fastest and easiest way to gain rps, if they didn't do so hot last week well that's not really an effective way to gauge anything. Fact is, until they actually nerfed the gains by taking undefended structures it was a superior form of gaining rps. Now they actually have to fight other people or take things that are defended, as it should be, to make up for the loss from that rp gain nerf. If you go back a few months I am sure their average rp gains were much higher. Now that it's actually balanced out again, you're trying to revive this thread that's been dead for a year because you don't think you or your leaders are gaining enough for taking towers. Tough titties man, try running out solo on anything under rr7 then compare your rp gains to that. I think you'll find your rvr bg leaders are still averaging more rps a week if they're playing the same amount of time as said low rr soloer. The only thing that's probably better than running in the bg for rps is running in a well set up 8man.

Not exactly sry.

It is right that before change taking a tower in an enemy realm will flow mor RPs ... but now retaking an undefended keep in your border mean 2.5k RP gain ... way more than before.

And anyway also before change (Pilz apart, ONLY exception) no BG leaders was in the herald "most RP gained" 48h/current week/last week.

The real difference was in march/april ... lockdown months for corona .... when sever took 2k + players in EU Primetime .... so many massive fights pay ALOT of Rps...

Anyway i dont understand why you talk about solos... cant compare solis with a zerg LOL

Fri 9 Oct 2020 3:17 AM by Forlornhope

Gildar wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:56 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:33 PM
Gildar wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:17 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:05 PM
The bg leader's rewards is the massive amount of rps they get running the bgs already, they don't need more.

You believe ?

LOL

Look at Gilboom stats on herald ... or Smap stats ...
You have a surprise. They do less RP than many other players ... that's are numbers ... not blabla .

They gain far less RP than they deserve for the hard work they do ...

They are high RR ???
Sure ... but they play many more hours than others players .... last week Gilboom gain about 5k RP per hour ... not a great reward i think ....

Running in the bgs is the fastest and easiest way to gain rps, if they didn't do so hot last week well that's not really an effective way to gauge anything. Fact is, until they actually nerfed the gains by taking undefended structures it was a superior form of gaining rps. Now they actually have to fight other people or take things that are defended, as it should be, to make up for the loss from that rp gain nerf. If you go back a few months I am sure their average rp gains were much higher. Now that it's actually balanced out again, you're trying to revive this thread that's been dead for a year because you don't think you or your leaders are gaining enough for taking towers. Tough titties man, try running out solo on anything under rr7 then compare your rp gains to that. I think you'll find your rvr bg leaders are still averaging more rps a week if they're playing the same amount of time as said low rr soloer. The only thing that's probably better than running in the bg for rps is running in a well set up 8man.

Not exactly sry.

It is right that before change taking a tower in an enemy realm will flow mor RPs ... but now retaking an undefended keep in your border mean 2.5k RP gain ... way more than before.

And anyway also before change (Pilz apart, ONLY exception) no BG leaders was in the herald "most RP gained" 48h/current week/last week.

The real difference was in march/april ... lockdown months for corona .... when sever took 2k + players in EU Primetime .... so many massive fights pay ALOT of Rps...

Anyway i dont understand why you talk about solos... cant compare solis with a zerg LOL

Trying to convey to you how much more difficult every other play style in the game is compared to keeptake bgs. And yet most people who play those styles likely make way less rps on a weekly basis than most people who run in the zerg constantly. But, unless you try those other play styles out you're never going to actually understand. Zerg players don't need anymore rewards for their play style, they already have more than enough compared to any other server that's ever existed of this game lol. Leaders having people consistently join their bgs, always having relics, and being able to mow over pretty much everything else with 50-150 people is their reward. Be happy with it.

Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:34 AM by Sepplord

Gildar wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:02 PM
Good point ... but it is clear you dont play BG.

What gave it away? Was it me saying "i don't play BG" ?

Jokes aside though, you are right about the already settled leaders.

Those aren't an issue though, they are there already, they regularly lead anyways. It's what they do and they are having fun doing it.
The additional rewards they get ARE the things you listed. They aren't questioned, they are followed. "Everyone" knows their name. They are basically celebrities for their realm.
When they take an objective the whole server gets to read that it was THEIR army that took it. etc...

For settled and widely accepted leaders the rewards are already there, and when that war machine starts rolling i bet their job is a lot of fun and turns the game into a much better and complex strategy game being played from the battlefield perspective. I don't think they need additional rewards, since they are already getting much more out of the game than any of their followers are (and don't get me wrong, they worked to reach that status and overcame the initial phase of toxic mistrust and other trying to take over)

The issue is that not all realms have enough/many of those leaders and should settled leaders quit (quit the game, not log out for the night) new ones are needed to replace them. In the realm balance threads it is talked about how alb was only lacking because their leader was on vacation. Having the strength of a complete realm being so dependant on a single person is an issue.

Sadly i don't have a reasonable solution ready, more rewards is the obvious way to think of, but i fear it could have the opposite effect and in the end only give the established leaders more instead of actually bringing in new leaders

Fri 9 Oct 2020 7:49 AM by Gildar

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 3:17 AM
Gildar wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:56 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:33 PM
Gildar wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:17 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:05 PM
The bg leader's rewards is the massive amount of rps they get running the bgs already, they don't need more.

You believe ?

LOL

Look at Gilboom stats on herald ... or Smap stats ...
You have a surprise. They do less RP than many other players ... that's are numbers ... not blabla .

They gain far less RP than they deserve for the hard work they do ...

They are high RR ???
Sure ... but they play many more hours than others players .... last week Gilboom gain about 5k RP per hour ... not a great reward i think ....

Running in the bgs is the fastest and easiest way to gain rps, if they didn't do so hot last week well that's not really an effective way to gauge anything. Fact is, until they actually nerfed the gains by taking undefended structures it was a superior form of gaining rps. Now they actually have to fight other people or take things that are defended, as it should be, to make up for the loss from that rp gain nerf. If you go back a few months I am sure their average rp gains were much higher. Now that it's actually balanced out again, you're trying to revive this thread that's been dead for a year because you don't think you or your leaders are gaining enough for taking towers. Tough titties man, try running out solo on anything under rr7 then compare your rp gains to that. I think you'll find your rvr bg leaders are still averaging more rps a week if they're playing the same amount of time as said low rr soloer. The only thing that's probably better than running in the bg for rps is running in a well set up 8man.

Not exactly sry.

It is right that before change taking a tower in an enemy realm will flow mor RPs ... but now retaking an undefended keep in your border mean 2.5k RP gain ... way more than before.

And anyway also before change (Pilz apart, ONLY exception) no BG leaders was in the herald "most RP gained" 48h/current week/last week.

The real difference was in march/april ... lockdown months for corona .... when sever took 2k + players in EU Primetime .... so many massive fights pay ALOT of Rps...

Anyway i dont understand why you talk about solos... cant compare solis with a zerg LOL

Trying to convey to you how much more difficult every other play style in the game is compared to keeptake bgs. And yet most people who play those styles likely make way less rps on a weekly basis than most people who run in the zerg constantly. But, unless you try those other play styles out you're never going to actually understand. Zerg players don't need anymore rewards for their play style, they already have more than enough compared to any other server that's ever existed of this game lol. Leaders having people consistently join their bgs, always having relics, and being able to mow over pretty much everything else with 50-150 people is their reward. Be happy with it.

This is your point of view and i respect your opinion.

But i dont agree 100% with above.

Fri 9 Oct 2020 7:59 AM by Gildar

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 9 Oct 2020 6:34 AM
Gildar wrote: ↑
Thu 8 Oct 2020 9:02 PM
Good point ... but it is clear you dont play BG.

What gave it away? Was it me saying "i don't play BG" ?
Jokes aside though, you are right about the already settled leaders.

Those aren't an issue though, they are there already, they regularly lead anyways. It's what they do and they are having fun doing it.
The additional rewards they get ARE the things you listed. They aren't questioned, they are followed. "Everyone" knows their name. They are basically celebrities for their realm.
When they take an objective the whole server gets to read that it was THEIR army that took it. etc...

For settled and widely accepted leaders the rewards are already there, and when that war machine starts rolling i bet their job is a lot of fun and turns the game into a much better and complex strategy game being played from the battlefield perspective. I don't think they need additional rewards, since they are already getting much more out of the game than any of their followers are (and don't get me wrong, they worked to reach that status and overcame the initial phase of toxic mistrust and other trying to take over)

The issue is that not all realms have enough/many of those leaders and should settled leaders quit (quit the game, not log out for the night) new ones are needed to replace them. In the realm balance threads it is talked about how alb was only lacking because their leader was on vacation. Having the strength of a complete realm being so dependant on a single person is an issue.

Sadly i don't have a reasonable solution ready, more rewards is the obvious way to think of, but i fear it could have the opposite effect and in the end only give the established leaders more instead of actually bringing in new leaders

Good arguments here.

BG leaders can be a great pro for the game ... but also a great minus.
Pro: they start the RvR every day giving fun to all ...
Minus: all wait leaders for start RvR ... :/

Alb is an example ... in Alb the only real leader is Polemo. When he is off or in holiday realm is almost dead and that's no good for server health ...
I dont see new emerging leader and i agree with you this is a problem ... in Hib when the last BG leader log ever ask if someone want to take lead ... and no one step up ... and people leave BG and many also log off.
End of run ...

About reward, maybe only a title ? Or some BP ?

Brainstorming