Put CC back to what it was next event

The intent seems to be to make CC less powerful because, at least at lower levels, no one really has any way to counter once it lands (e.g., very little if any purge or det). However, for 5mans, tank groups were already strong, and now they're even stronger at the higher levels as they all have det9 by then, resulting in the longest duration mezzes having almost no duration at all. This seems like a bad aspect of the change.

On top of that, though, there's the impact for fights between caster groups where det is not at play. In this case, you would think CC would be weakened, but it it's just as effective. The reduced CC duration means a reduced immunity, also. It's not at all unusual to find yourself getting mezzed again shortly after being mezzed. The only way to counteract this for casters is to use purge, but when immunity is so short, purge is not all that helpful.

I would suggest making CC work as it usually does if we have this event again. Sure, it will be really powerful at low levels, but those last for such a short amount of time. Meanwhile, at the higher levels, it's just really out of whack.

Sun 21 Mar 2021 4:02 AM by ExcretusMaximus

joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Mar 2021 3:43 AM
The reduced CC duration means a reduced immunity, also.

No it doesn't; casted CC immunity is always 1 minute, regardless of the CC's duration.

Sun 21 Mar 2021 4:52 AM by joshisanonymous

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Mar 2021 4:02 AM
joshisanonymous wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Mar 2021 3:43 AM
The reduced CC duration means a reduced immunity, also.

No it doesn't; casted CC immunity is always 1 minute, regardless of the CC's duration.

I know, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Either way, I don't see what the point in reducing CC was.

Sun 21 Mar 2021 6:45 AM by Magesty

I’m guessing the goal was to make CC feel less oppressive. Additionally, it theoretically reduces the ability gap between skilled premades/good comps and unskilled/poorly composed pugs.

Clearly, to have a comprehensive overhaul of CC for the event stoic and det need to be reduced proportionally. Doing so preserves the overall “balance” of the existing system. Perhaps that is difficult to do?

Supposing it is difficult or impossible, I still prefer an attempt to adjust the crowd control duration in a manner that helps out players that are going to struggle for one reason or another. I’d agree that this change doesn’t seem to have the bite it needs to make a difference in most situations, and as CC reduction mechanics weren’t adjusted along with it certain classes are disproportionately affected.

Sun 21 Mar 2021 7:15 AM by

gruenesschaf

Magesty wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Mar 2021 6:45 AM
Clearly, to have a comprehensive overhaul of CC for the event stoic and det need to be reduced proportionally. Doing so preserves the overall “balance” of the existing system. Perhaps that is difficult to do?

The cc duration on stoic + det tanks is almost the same due to not having resist buffs, non det classes gain the largest absolute duration reduction followed by non stoic det tanks. Also in the event it should be more common than not to not have all resists capped.

The immunity duration is still 1 minute.

73 seconds delve duration
normally, 26 item resists, 16 casted resists = 73 * 0.58 = 42 seconds
in event, 26 item resists = 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30 seconds
normally, with det 9, 26 item resists and 16 casted resists: 73 * 0.58 = 42.34 * 0.45 = 19 seconds
in event with det 9, 26 item resists: 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30.71 * 0.45 = 13 seconds
normally, with stoic + det 9, 26 item resists and 16 casted resists: 73 * 0.58 = 42.34 * 0.2 = 8 seconds
in event with stoic + det 9, 26 item resists: 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30.71 * 0.2 = 6 seconds

Sun 21 Mar 2021 7:55 PM by Magesty

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Mar 2021 7:15 AM
The cc duration on stoic + det tanks is almost the same due to not having resist buffs, non det classes gain the largest absolute duration reduction followed by non stoic det tanks. Also in the event it should be more common than not to not have all resists capped.

The immunity duration is still 1 minute.

73 seconds delve duration
normally, 26 item resists, 16 casted resists = 73 * 0.58 = 42 seconds
in event, 26 item resists = 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30 seconds
normally, with det 9, 26 item resists and 16 casted resists: 73 * 0.58 = 42.34 * 0.45 = 19 seconds
in event with det 9, 26 item resists: 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30.71 * 0.45 = 13 seconds
normally, with stoic + det 9, 26 item resists and 16 casted resists: 73 * 0.58 = 42.34 * 0.2 = 8 seconds
in event with stoic + det 9, 26 item resists: 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30.71 * 0.2 = 6 seconds

Interesting, I did not realize your event formula added a base 10 seconds. Along with removing casted resists that's a great way to deal with this exact problem. I was clearly uninformed.

I can see how a shift in the shorter durations (even from 8 to 6 seconds) would still feel pretty extreme for people try-harding in caster premades, but unlike actual RvR, the event isn't about them.

Sun 21 Mar 2021 10:17 PM by gotwqqd

Magesty wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Mar 2021 7:55 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Mar 2021 7:15 AM
The cc duration on stoic + det tanks is almost the same due to not having resist buffs, non det classes gain the largest absolute duration reduction followed by non stoic det tanks. Also in the event it should be more common than not to not have all resists capped.

The immunity duration is still 1 minute.

73 seconds delve duration
normally, 26 item resists, 16 casted resists = 73 * 0.58 = 42 seconds
in event, 26 item resists = 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30 seconds
normally, with det 9, 26 item resists and 16 casted resists: 73 * 0.58 = 42.34 * 0.45 = 19 seconds
in event with det 9, 26 item resists: 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30.71 * 0.45 = 13 seconds
normally, with stoic + det 9, 26 item resists and 16 casted resists: 73 * 0.58 = 42.34 * 0.2 = 8 seconds
in event with stoic + det 9, 26 item resists: 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30.71 * 0.2 = 6 seconds

Interesting, I did not realize your event formula added a base 10 seconds. Along with removing casted resists that's a great way to deal with this exact problem. I was clearly uninformed.

I can see how a shift in the shorter durations (even from 8 to 6 seconds) would still feel pretty extreme for people try-harding in caster premades, but unlike actual RvR, the event isn't about them.

It doesn’t add 10 seconds to the duration, it only reduces the total duration less that 10!seconds

(Total-10)/2 + 10 = duration

Wed 24 Mar 2021 4:19 PM by radix

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Mar 2021 7:15 AM
Magesty wrote: ↑
Sun 21 Mar 2021 6:45 AM
Clearly, to have a comprehensive overhaul of CC for the event stoic and det need to be reduced proportionally. Doing so preserves the overall “balance” of the existing system. Perhaps that is difficult to do?

The cc duration on stoic + det tanks is almost the same due to not having resist buffs, non det classes gain the largest absolute duration reduction followed by non stoic det tanks. Also in the event it should be more common than not to not have all resists capped.

The immunity duration is still 1 minute.

73 seconds delve duration
normally, 26 item resists, 16 casted resists = 73 * 0.58 = 42 seconds
in event, 26 item resists = 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30 seconds
normally, with det 9, 26 item resists and 16 casted resists: 73 * 0.58 = 42.34 * 0.45 = 19 seconds
in event with det 9, 26 item resists: 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30.71 * 0.45 = 13 seconds
normally, with stoic + det 9, 26 item resists and 16 casted resists: 73 * 0.58 = 42.34 * 0.2 = 8 seconds
in event with stoic + det 9, 26 item resists: 10 + 63/2 = 41.5 * 0.74 = 30.71 * 0.2 = 6 seconds

So that's 32% less duration for Det9 classes, and 25% less for stoic classes.
That's a huge difference - 6secs on a tank means you can hardly move out of range (even if not snared) after a single target mezz.

Basically slam/snare are the only viable cc-options against tanks. Which is okay, but is limiting the number of viable setups in the last bracket.

Wed 24 Mar 2021 4:49 PM by ExcretusMaximus

radix wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Mar 2021 4:19 PM
Basically slam/snare are the only viable cc-options against tanks.

Which is exactly like it is in the frontier at 50.

Wed 24 Mar 2021 4:57 PM by radix

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Mar 2021 4:49 PM
radix wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Mar 2021 4:19 PM
Basically slam/snare are the only viable cc-options against tanks.

Which is exactly like it is in the frontier at 50.

No, a single mezz already helps to free your casters to get a short nuke window. But the combination of "less dps chars" in a 5man group + reduced cc timers make it even harder tbh. I played tank grp + caster grp this event (and also during all other events), the "meta" totally shifted towards tank heavy/3 support OR shroom caster.

Wed 24 Mar 2021 5:57 PM by Magesty

Isn’t the whole point of the change to make it a more pleasant experience for casuals/autogroups? It’s right there in the name of the event.

I’m not sure that balance for a premade meta is a worthwhile concern.

Wed 24 Mar 2021 6:21 PM by ExcretusMaximus

radix wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Mar 2021 4:57 PM
No, a single mezz already helps to free your casters to get a short nuke window. But the combination of "less dps chars" in a 5man group + reduced cc timers make it even harder tbh. I played tank grp + caster grp this event (and also during all other events), the "meta" totally shifted towards tank heavy/3 support OR shroom caster.

Healer or Bard single target mez lasts 9 seconds on my Merc, AE is closer to 6; you're acting as if a 3 second duration difference will result in a massive change in fight results, which is ludicrous. If the two best groups of all time were playing each other, tiny differences like that would mean a lot, but the best players of all time don't play anymore, so let's stop pretending we're all the elitest of the elite and microseconds count for anything.

Besides, this event isn't meant for people to dominate with their set groups, that's what the Arena event is for. Can you do a set group in ALPF? Sure, but they're not going to balance for it. The CC change was obviously implemented so groups wouldn't have to run tanks and nothing but.

Wed 24 Mar 2021 8:22 PM by radix

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Mar 2021 6:21 PM
radix wrote: ↑
Wed 24 Mar 2021 4:57 PM
No, a single mezz already helps to free your casters to get a short nuke window. But the combination of "less dps chars" in a 5man group + reduced cc timers make it even harder tbh. I played tank grp + caster grp this event (and also during all other events), the "meta" totally shifted towards tank heavy/3 support OR shroom caster.

Healer or Bard single target mez lasts 9 seconds on my Merc, AE is closer to 6; you're acting as if a 3 second duration difference will result in a massive change in fight results, which is ludicrous.

Besides, this event is meant for people to dominate with their set groups, that's what the Arena event is for. Can you do a set group in ALPF? Sure, but they're not going to balance for it. The CC change was obviously implemented so groups wouldn't have to run tanks and nothing but.

Well, ofc it has an impact if 3 tanks charge into you and your mezz lasts way shorter. Since kill speed is slower without debuffs, those 3-4sec make the difference between killing a tank before your casters get covered or not (shitloads of archers also don't help if you are playing as a caster).
And that's all I've observed in this event - way more tanky/support heavy groups than last time. If you consider that more casual friendly, fine. But your statement doesn't make much sense to me.

Fri 26 Mar 2021 11:54 AM by omicidi

3 seconds is an eternity in this game