Potion timers - Phoenix Freeshard

I'm sure this is already a topic, but I went through 4 pages and got too lazy to find one to bump.
Really quick just wanted to throw my vote in for doubling the realm potion timers.
Since they are obviously here to stay, I dropped my Pathfinding on ranger. But they are a pain to re-use every 10 mins and the expense combined with recharging is crazy.
Double the time will help with this quite a bit.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 3:14 PM by Citian

Pots need to be increased to hour long timers or there needs to be a realm buffer that just buffs people + provides 159% pulsing speed that can pick back up after combat.

Why? Because there are more effective gold sinks that could be far less annoying e.g. increase the speed at which armor/weapons decrease in durability. This provides a benefit of moving money into other peoples pockets while also controlling levels of gold. (WC/AC/FLETCH/SC/ALCH are all utilized/needed). Versus the pot/charge method where the majority of gold is simply being stripped out of the economy by NPCs. I dont think anyones concerned about inflation, and if so, change the charge method to "pay to play" aka pay for buffs (from an NPC that last an hour).

There is little incentive to solo or smallman (unless smallman is speed+dps+dps especially hibs) when the cost to do so is tangibly felt in the pots needed to either A. Get somewhere, B. Get ganked, C. Get rolled over. However, if these buffs were substantially cheaper and speed were enabled this would be a much different conversation. There would be more people doing it.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:25 PM by Blitze

This has been talked about extensively on other threads

1) the more you improve buffpotions the more you indirectly nerf selfbuffing classes (which are the lowest RP earning subset of Phoenix).

2) if buffpots/charges didn’t exist, then cost to go out in RvR would decrease to zero and although it would be slightly harder to kill selfbuffers you would be just as balanced against anyone else...

Tue 19 Mar 2019 5:15 PM by cere2

Blitze wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:25 PM
This has been talked about extensively on other threads

1) the more you improve buffpotions the more you indirectly nerf selfbuffing classes (which are the lowest RP earning subset of Phoenix).

2) if buffpots/charges didn’t exist, then cost to go out in RvR would decrease to zero and although it would be slightly harder to kill selfbuffers you would be just as balanced against anyone else...

This just validates my point. Self buffs became irrelevant as soon as buff potions were put in place. They are not going away. Pathfinding is virtually useless for the amount of points needed to spec just to get what potions give. I imagine the same goes for any other self-buffing class that has to spec for something granted freely by potions.
This being said, what difference does it make it potions last twice as long as they do currently? Those who have time to play 10 hours a day can probably supplement enough income to be able to pay for recharge and potion costs no problem. Those of us that have say 2-3 hours a night can not. Doubling the timers just gives more benefits to casual players. Rich may get richer, but most of us just want to be able to compete where it counts. RVR

Tue 19 Mar 2019 6:11 PM by qq6

I solo all the time, and i would pay double just to have it 20 mins, instead of rebuffing every 10 :X... same for the charges.

Tue 19 Mar 2019 8:01 PM by Riac

qq6 wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 6:11 PM
I solo all the time, and i would pay double just to have it 20 mins, instead of rebuffing every 10 :X... same for the charges.

I'd also pay a premium for additional up time on buffs, charges especially.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 1:19 AM by Mauriac

ditto

Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:47 AM by Blitze

Doubling the price Is a nerf to casuals.
(unless they choose to play selfbuffers and specc in their buffline (e.g rangers in PF) then it's irrelevant).

Doubling the timer is a nerf to low RRs and visibles/nonspeed classes
(as they get rolled more often and benifit less from the change as high RR stealths/speedsters do).

These potions are a minefield for balance and overall, they negatively affect the poorest RP earners on the server: casuals and selfbufffers. It is just a matter of how much they affect these two groups.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 12:18 PM by rubaduck

I love how people just don't use the search function, but instead kick a dead horse.

This has been discussed so many times and Uthred has answered it here : https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2466&hilit=Buff+timers&start=40

Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:56 PM by cere2

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 12:18 PM
I love how people just don't use the search function, but instead kick a dead horse.

This has been discussed so many times and Uthred has answered it here : https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2466&hilit=Buff+timers&start=40

You know if people don't speak up nothing ever gets changed. Perhaps it was commented on before, but if a majority of players would enjoy a QOL change, perhaps a better reason than its not our vision would help people understand why.
I thought the Dev's were open to player debate and suggestions?

Otherwise just lock up every thread and say, this isn't "our" vision. That way we can all just shut up play the game how it is until we get bored and watch another vid on youtube about how phoenix died....

Wed 20 Mar 2019 3:32 PM by rubaduck

cere2 wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 2:56 PM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 12:18 PM
I love how people just don't use the search function, but instead kick a dead horse.

This has been discussed so many times and Uthred has answered it here : https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2466&hilit=Buff+timers&start=40

You know if people don't speak up nothing ever gets changed. Perhaps it was commented on before, but if a majority of players would enjoy a QOL change, perhaps a better reason than its not our vision would help people understand why.
I thought the Dev's were open to player debate and suggestions?

Otherwise just lock up every thread and say, this isn't "our" vision. That way we can all just shut up play the game how it is until we get bored and watch another vid on youtube about how phoenix died....

A lot of players arrived on launch, that didn't partake in the discussions before and during beta, and I really don't have time to cite every argument that was made or explain every test run we had, because it will take forever for me to do that. However you can look through the forum posts and read up on them yourself. They have said it won't change, leave it and move on to the next topic.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 3:52 PM by Arkeon

Blitze wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:25 PM
This has been talked about extensively on other threads

1) the more you improve buffpotions the more you indirectly nerf selfbuffing classes (which are the lowest RP earning subset of Phoenix).

2) if buffpots/charges didn’t exist, then cost to go out in RvR would decrease to zero and although it would be slightly harder to kill selfbuffers you would be just as balanced against anyone else...

up

Wed 20 Mar 2019 4:10 PM by Kampfar

I consider rolling a friar. So pls remove buffpots

Wed 20 Mar 2019 4:18 PM by Yokahu

Blitze wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:25 PM
This has been talked about extensively on other threads

1) the more you improve buffpotions the more you indirectly nerf selfbuffing classes (which are the lowest RP earning subset of Phoenix).

2) if buffpots/charges didn’t exist, then cost to go out in RvR would decrease to zero and although it would be slightly harder to kill selfbuffers you would be just as balanced against anyone else...

Couldn’t agree more.

I believe some people just stack up themselves with buffpots and charges because they think their opponent will be doing the same and don’t want to be at a disadvantage. If pots and charges are removed everyone should be balanced against everyone else.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 8:31 PM by cere2

Yokahu wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 4:18 PM
Blitze wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:25 PM
This has been talked about extensively on other threads

1) the more you improve buffpotions the more you indirectly nerf selfbuffing classes (which are the lowest RP earning subset of Phoenix).

2) if buffpots/charges didn’t exist, then cost to go out in RvR would decrease to zero and although it would be slightly harder to kill selfbuffers you would be just as balanced against anyone else...

Couldn’t agree more.

I believe some people just stack up themselves with buffpots and charges because they think their opponent will be doing the same and don’t want to be at a disadvantage. If pots and charges are removed everyone should be balanced against everyone else.

Hey, we were instructed to leave this topic alone and move on, we weren't here for beta and therefore our opinions are worthless. Guess we should all make druids so we all have the best buffs and say this topic is irrelevant.
What about a new topic of making all buffing classes only have buffs = to potions? On board with that?

Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:18 PM by Mauriac

Yokahu wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 4:18 PM
Blitze wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Mar 2019 4:25 PM
This has been talked about extensively on other threads

1) the more you improve buffpotions the more you indirectly nerf selfbuffing classes (which are the lowest RP earning subset of Phoenix).

2) if buffpots/charges didn’t exist, then cost to go out in RvR would decrease to zero and although it would be slightly harder to kill selfbuffers you would be just as balanced against anyone else...

Couldn’t agree more.

I believe some people just stack up themselves with buffpots and charges because they think their opponent will be doing the same and don’t want to be at a disadvantage. If pots and charges are removed everyone should be balanced against everyone else.

this thought scares me. as an SB i've watched friars dunk on 2 SBs (I was one of them) at the same time. without buffpots I imagine it would take at least 4 maybe 5 of us for the same effect. gross.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:47 PM by Blitze

Yes I know first hand that friars can sometimes take SBs or NSs 2v1. But I’m sure reavers, skalds, thanes, warrs, mercs, BMs, arms, champs, VWs, minis, BDs, SMs, sorcs, theurs .... can do that too occasionally.

Also for a friar to do the above they sacrifice a lot for it. E.g. they resign themselves to speccing as a battlefriar (7-15 rejuv, not a grp or small-man spec). They also spec reflex attack 4/5, purge2, ST RAs.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:49 PM by Mauriac

Blitze wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 11:47 PM
Yes I know first hand that friars can sometimes take SBs or NSs 2v1. But I’m sure reavers, skalds, thanes, warrs, mercs, BMs, arms, champs, VWs, minis, BDs, SMs, sorcs, theurs .... can do that too occasionally.

Also for a friar to do the above they sacrifice a lot for it. E.g. they resign themselves to speccing as a battlefriar (7-15 rejuv, not a grp or small-man spec). The also means they spec reflex attack 4/5, purge2, ST RAs.

of course, didnt mean to imply there werent any tradeoffs. merely commenting on a class that generally beats the breaks off me would be even scarier with what that dude was proposing. and yes, the above classes you mentioned at RR5 + can do that against mid to lower RR SBs. they would lose vs two high RR SBs though. is what it is i guess

Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:55 AM by Sepplord

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 20 Mar 2019 12:18 PM
I love how people just don't use the search function, but instead kick a dead horse.

This has been discussed so many times and Uthred has answered it here : https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2466&hilit=Buff+timers&start=40

As much as i agree, and am annoyed myself by people beating dead horses... if we dig up old posts we could find several about teleporting not happening, and only a few weeks into the server, out of nowhere for many people: teleporting to flags

I think it is good that even things that were planned as set in stone can get changed, because situations change too...but the downside is that people will keep bringing up the same topics again and again

Thu 21 Mar 2019 6:58 AM by semadin

What was the reasoning for putting the buffpots and charges in the game in the first place? with no buffbots, it doesn't make sense to supplement this capability via potions and charges. If you group, you get buffs that way.