Nice Fighters versus XRealming Suggestion

So i recently read a thread about so called nice fighting, and the problems surrounding the issue.
In said thread the arguement was made, that most of the 1v1 community dont follow this playstyle for RP gain, but for the challenge.

The counter arguments were amongst others, that this kind of behaviour (stop attacking when added, members of all 3 realms chilling with each other, ...) is disruptive to the realm VERSUS realm incentive of the game, and also a huge barrier for low RR players that want to solo (without being so called nice Fighters).

My Suggestion would be a permanently open 1v1 zone in which RP gain ist turned off.

Nice fighters can duel to their hearts content, and ad they said themselves, RP dont matter, that wont be an issue.

Due to RP being turned off, the zone wouldnt be needing oversight to prevent some kind of x-realming.

And i wont have to wonder, if the solo Mid standing at Bold that i want to attack may be surrounded by some friendly hib stealthers.

Mon 3 May 2021 4:29 PM by vxr

I did a quick search and couldn't find "nice fighting" but I found a "No adding?!?" thread. Is that the thread you are talking about?

Opening up a duel area, wont change the behavior of people that like clean 1v1s when they go back to open RvR.
No RP duel areas will be barren within 2 hours without any incentives.

I don't see any issue with solos not adding and not wanting to be added on. You can't compel someone to fight or not fight.
The bigger issue is the GvG that disengage while one of the group cleans up the solos. That is much more determinantal than solos doing it so I don't see why you are focusing on the solos. Maybe you also mean the GvG, but all I see in your text is 1v1. I also don't think groups should be compelled, but when GvG are having their fights near tasks/bridge and other high traffic areas, it can be aggravating.
When a solo disengages, it goes from being 2v1 to a 1v1.

Mon 3 May 2021 4:45 PM by Nephamael

My Suggestion would be a permanently open 1v1 zone in which RP gain ist turned off.

So how would a new low RR "nice fighter" then advance his character? - Sure for the RR10-11s this would be an option to pass time, for everyone lower it would be a clear message of "we don't support your playstyle as a valid part of the Phoenix PvP content".

I think the problem here is: GvG groups are allowed to play bowtown in EV, but solos are not allowed to do the same, at whatever place they choose for it (DC Coast, Beno Bridge = both not the quickest path to the docks and therefore as much away from high traffic as EV regarding groups).

- Let's be clear about this: Without the EV GvG Bowtown /gvg would die on Phoenix.
So removing this is no option - and the gvg groups harm noone, when the task is off EV - Noone has any reason to be on EV then, except for zergs to raid the center keep, who are perfectly capable to overrun 8men.

Let's just allow /bowtowns - a solo that does not like to play /bowtown can simply stay away from the extremely small area, where the "nice fighters" play their game - it blocks maybe a 1500 range radius circle, often less. - The GvG content is allowed to block one entire zone.

Mon 3 May 2021 5:01 PM by Malte2502

vxr wrote: ↑
Mon 3 May 2021 4:29 PM
I did a quick search and couldn't find "nice fighting" but I found a "No adding?!?" thread. Is that the thread you are talking about?

Opening up a duel area, wont change the behavior of people that like clean 1v1s when they go back to open RvR.
No RP duel areas will be barren within 2 hours without any incentives.

I don't see any issue with solos not adding and not wanting to be added on. You can't compel someone to fight or not fight.
The bigger issue is the GvG that disengage while one of the group cleans up the solos. That is much more determinantal than solos doing it so I don't see why you are focusing on the solos. Maybe you also mean the GvG, but all I see in your text is 1v1. I also don't think groups should be compelled, but when GvG are having their fights near tasks/bridge and other high traffic areas, it can be aggravating.
When a solo disengages, it goes from being 2v1 to a 1v1.

Im only talking about 1v1. Idk what the name of the thread was but i will look it up. I also dont want to go into all the details arguement-wise so ill keep it short (i hope).

Example:
I play a low RR solo caster and find a realmmate and an enemy fighting. Both are high RR. Had i encountered the enemy alone, I would have run. In a 2v1 however I feel confident we can kill the enemy. I add the fight as im in the FZ to make RP. My realmmate disengages and the high RR enemy kills me. After that my realmmate waits until the enemy ist fully regged to continue the duel.
-> my realmmate helped the enemy gaining RPs by actively disengaging combat. It is not my "fault" this happened, because i assessed the beforehand and could not have known the 2v1 would be a 1v1, otherwise i hadnt engaged.

The next run i encounter another realmmate fighting the same enemy. I am interested in who will win the fight so i watch and dont engage.
After my realmmate dies i get a pretty aggressive message why i didnt help.
-> my realmmate is angry and rightfully so. DAoC is a RvR game.

Players shouldnt have to assess if they are "allowed" to add a fight by some arbitrary system or code. And yes, now is the time to get out the arguement that i am allowed to add every fight i want. Sure. But the important point here ist the "want".
Maybe i dont want to 1v1 people that are 7-9 RRs higher than me.

At the same time i understand that there is a not too small playerbase, that likes the challenge and the thrill of "Clean Fights", duels or alike.
The fact remains, that these kind of fights have an impact on the state of the game and how running solo functions in Phoenix.

Hence the solution to give the above mentioned playerbase room to get their desired duels.

There are two problems that both have the same result: knowing where to find enemies in a small space and guaranteed solo kills would both result in a huge advantage RP gain wise, and are prone to being abused via fixed fights.
-> No RPs in the duel zone

That shouldnt be the problem, as the mayority of this playerbase stated, RPs werent the incentive for this playstyle.

And if they want to gain RPs, they can simply go to the FZ and fight enemies there as usual, only change would be, that disengaging a fight just because someone adds it and "hanging out" with each other ist now considered crossrealming. If you want to so that, go to the new Zone.

Mon 3 May 2021 5:14 PM by Astaa

A little bit of consideration for other players would be nice all round.

Mon 3 May 2021 5:17 PM by Kurbsen

Malte2502 wrote: ↑
Mon 3 May 2021 5:01 PM
Players shouldnt have to assess if they are "allowed" to add a fight by some arbitrary system or code. And yes, now is the time to get out the arguement that i am allowed to add every fight i want. Sure. But the important point here ist the "want".

You're right, a player doesnt have to abide by any rules. You can do what you want, but keep in mind the reality of things. Daoc is a small community. If you continue to add/zerg down people, there is a good chance that those people would log off and go play some other game and in return there is less action out for you.

Like.. play how you want, others can play how they want. Just keep in mind that there is a good chance that adding on others = them logging = less action for you that night.

My suggestion to you is, if you dont feel comfortable roaming as a lowbie caster.. then dont. find a speed class to duo with or join a pug.

Mon 3 May 2021 5:26 PM by Malte2502

Never heard that arguement before...
No but seriously: I would like to play solo caster, and i do feel comfortable with it. What i dont feel comfortable with is the soft xrealming thats happening. And i get your point, which you should have noticed by me writing down a suggestion that would serve both playstyles.

Also: the arguement does work both ways right? When im being steamrolled by the 10th rr10 "nice fighter" while my realmmate watches, what If im inclined to log off? Or doesnt that matter? And if not, why?

Mon 3 May 2021 6:16 PM by Nephamael

Never heard that arguement before...
No but seriously: I would like to play solo caster, and i do feel comfortable with it. What i dont feel comfortable with is the soft xrealming thats happening. And i get your point, which you should have noticed by me writing down a suggestion that would serve both playstyles.

Also: the arguement does work both ways right? When im being steamrolled by the 10th rr10 "nice fighter" while my realmmate watches, what If im inclined to log off? Or doesnt that matter? And if not, why?

The problem of your mindset is: you want to be allowed to play as you like, but take away the freedom of the "nice fighters" to play as they like.

Also there is 0 cross realming in disengaging a fight, crossrealming would be hitting the guy out of a mezz/snare so he can kill you easier.

I think what would serve both playstyles the best would be allowing /bowtowns, as they are very obviously displaying the desire of the attendants to play /bow clean 1v1s.

- so everyone else naturally realizes, they fight by a specific ruleset, and if they want to join the circle they have to fight by those rules (same as a group wants to join the EV GvG bowtown, they have to follow the rules or live with the result of the gvg community punishing the adding group).

And if you want to play a different solo style, you can avoid the 1.5k radius area of the bowtown and use all the rest of the frontier for your add style soloing.

Mon 3 May 2021 7:09 PM by Irkeno

Honestly. There is no skill, challenge, or enjoyment to come from vastly outnumbering your opponent to the point where victory is inevitable.

Thats the annoying part. Zergs moan when the opposition zerg is 2x as big, as do groups as do smalls, as do solos.

Unfortunately for solos they are at the very bottom and get shat on by everyone, and arent given a zone or incentive to use the /gvg equivalent list.

There is no chance at all for victory. Its just a 100% guaranteed 1 way ticket to the bindstone every time. A small group can maybe overcome an 8man, a group can maybe overcome a zerg and a small zerg can beat a big zerg....unlikely but the chance is there

Id be interested to see how many times the solor has won against a 5man/8man etc....clue, zero.

Budding solos would benefit from the /clean fights equivalent as its somewhat discouraging getting beaten by a rr10 soloer 4 times in a row and of course will make some give up, but its still 100000% more likely to beat that guy than it is a wondering 8man.

A clear defintion of what is defined as rpfarming would be good...because holy shit if fighting a skilled opponent 1v1 is rp farming and 8v1ing someone repeatedly isnt rp farming... I do need it explaining to me like im 5.

Once thats given, 1 warning and then 2nd offence a full rp wipe on the offender would be enough to deter all but the dumbest of people if an incentivised area was given to solos.

Failing that, since I accept to some extent its been mentioned that a solo area will never return. Forcing people to MOVE a bit more than currently is key. The map is absolutely barren except task zone and key docks, if you go to a quiet dock to find 1 fight every 20-30mins you eventually just get rolled by the /region warning zerg anyway. For example as a test earlier today a friend of mine left his character AFK right by the solo teleporter for 30 minutes whilst he took a phone call he came back and was still alive...

If incentives for movement were given to soloers such as bp rewards or feather rewards or anything. Youd get more variance and freshen things up a bit.

Mon 3 May 2021 10:27 PM by gotwqqd

Malte2502 wrote: ↑
Mon 3 May 2021 5:01 PM
vxr wrote: ↑
Mon 3 May 2021 4:29 PM
I did a quick search and couldn't find "nice fighting" but I found a "No adding?!?" thread. Is that the thread you are talking about?

Opening up a duel area, wont change the behavior of people that like clean 1v1s when they go back to open RvR.
No RP duel areas will be barren within 2 hours without any incentives.

I don't see any issue with solos not adding and not wanting to be added on. You can't compel someone to fight or not fight.
The bigger issue is the GvG that disengage while one of the group cleans up the solos. That is much more determinantal than solos doing it so I don't see why you are focusing on the solos. Maybe you also mean the GvG, but all I see in your text is 1v1. I also don't think groups should be compelled, but when GvG are having their fights near tasks/bridge and other high traffic areas, it can be aggravating.
When a solo disengages, it goes from being 2v1 to a 1v1.

Im only talking about 1v1. Idk what the name of the thread was but i will look it up. I also dont want to go into all the details arguement-wise so ill keep it short (i hope).

Example:
I play a low RR solo caster and find a realmmate and an enemy fighting. Both are high RR. Had i encountered the enemy alone, I would have run. In a 2v1 however I feel confident we can kill the enemy. I add the fight as im in the FZ to make RP. My realmmate disengages and the high RR enemy kills me. After that my realmmate waits until the enemy ist fully regged to continue the duel.
-> my realmmate helped the enemy gaining RPs by actively disengaging combat. It is not my "fault" this happened, because i assessed the beforehand and could not have known the 2v1 would be a 1v1, otherwise i hadnt engaged.

The next run i encounter another realmmate fighting the same enemy. I am interested in who will win the fight so i watch and dont engage.
After my realmmate dies i get a pretty aggressive message why i didnt help.
-> my realmmate is angry and rightfully so. DAoC is a RvR game.

Players shouldnt have to assess if they are "allowed" to add a fight by some arbitrary system or code. And yes, now is the time to get out the arguement that i am allowed to add every fight i want. Sure. But the important point here ist the "want".
Maybe i dont want to 1v1 people that are 7-9 RRs higher than me.

At the same time i understand that there is a not too small playerbase, that likes the challenge and the thrill of "Clean Fights", duels or alike.
The fact remains, that these kind of fights have an impact on the state of the game and how running solo functions in Phoenix.

Hence the solution to give the above mentioned playerbase room to get their desired duels.

There are two problems that both have the same result: knowing where to find enemies in a small space and guaranteed solo kills would both result in a huge advantage RP gain wise, and are prone to being abused via fixed fights.
-> No RPs in the duel zone

That shouldnt be the problem, as the mayority of this playerbase stated, RPs werent the incentive for this playstyle.

And if they want to gain RPs, they can simply go to the FZ and fight enemies there as usual, only change would be, that disengaging a fight just because someone adds it and "hanging out" with each other ist now considered crossrealming. If you want to so that, go to the new Zone.

Nice post... too bad you’re going to get hammered for your viewpoint

Tue 4 May 2021 1:21 AM by Jingo NZ

Yes good post. I'm against bow-towns. There is no real fair fight in this game, just close fights where the outcome could go either way. So people should abandon the idea of a "fair fight" solo community (many reasons why, and also some hypocracy). Instead we can look at more incentives to increase the frequency of close fights that could go either way.

Incentives should be around: fast to find action, participation awards, lower than usual chance of getting mowed down by a group, incentive to fight on Inc and not stand around, and a dynamic never know who you'll encounter rock/paper/scissors feel.
I'll dig out one of my suggestion posts...

Tue 4 May 2021 1:25 AM by Jingo NZ

A NEW SEPARATE solo /Task zone on a 45 minute rotation
Only solo kills within the /Task zone will earn you contribution
Non-solo kills are worth less than normal in this zone. The multiplier equation is: x 2/(RR-1), with a max of 1.0.
For example, if you are RR1 to RR3 you get 100% of normal RP for non-solo kill. If you are RR4 you get 66% of normal RP, RR5 is 50%, RR6 is 40% …
Fights around keeps and towers are exempt from this reduced RP for non-solo kills.
Solo players can port to this zone (random drop location) from two furthest docks, or solo keep zone. (E.G Alb can port from Bold and Beno docks and Folley Lake).

And one additional thing to encourage people to fight naturally rather than duel towns…
After you get a solo kill you are worth +1000 RPs for 60 seconds.

Think about it… you come across 2 ppl fighting. You wait for them to finish cleanly so that the winner is worth more RPs, then you engage…

See other /Task change suggestions for Small Man (& Casual)/8v8/Solo

Tue 4 May 2021 7:56 AM by Ceen

Simple suggestion:

If you add, add smart. Choose the proper time to add, the proper location and position to the fight.
Observe if they pull out and do the same.
Problem solved.

Tue 4 May 2021 8:18 AM by gotwqqd

Ceen wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 7:56 AM
Simple suggestion:

If you add, add smart. Choose the proper time to add, the proper location and position to the fight.
Observe if they pull out and do the same.
Problem solved.

How about this....if a realm mate helps you out , thank him. If you get to finish your fight without adds it’s a bonus and should not be considered your right or the norm.

Tue 4 May 2021 8:42 AM by byron

What's about using the RP tag fort that ? Or a new one if it can be implemented. It would be nice to have a tag that indicated that that player of your realm doesn't want any help when he run solo. So if I see a 1vs1 and the player of my realm has this tag, I know that he doesn't want any help or add. This will not solve the issue since if I want to add I can do it anyway (usually also groups and smallmen don't have any problem to kill solos or add 1vs1 fights) but it will help to avoid any incomprehension between the players of the same realm.

Tue 4 May 2021 9:11 AM by inoeth

how about just not adding and looking for your own fight? there are plenty of enemy around, really no need to add other than l2p issue

Tue 4 May 2021 9:17 AM by byron

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 9:11 AM
how about just not adding and looking for your own fight? there are plenty of enemy around, really no need to add other than l2p issue

Pretend to be not added on a bridge or near the docks (where a lot of players are) is quite hypocritical but at least a tag will help to respect the other play styles but without any obligation.

Tue 4 May 2021 1:39 PM by Malte2502

inoeth wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 9:11 AM
how about just not adding and looking for your own fight? there are plenty of enemy around, really no need to add other than l2p issue

No its not. Picking the right targets is a l2p issue. An issue at that, which you as stealth main wont ever have to think about.

Matter of fact being, that DAoC has an implemented powercreep with realm ranks. I would argue, and i think im more right than you and your pseudo righteuouss arguements, that fighting higher RR enemies with multiple friends is the intended way. Why is it my fault you are not good enough at the game to pick targets at locations where you are both added? Maybe you should l2p...

Oh and to your underlying masochistic sentiment of "liking the challenge" "learning the hard way" or whatever you fancy: tough luck. I enjoy other playstyles than you. Funny thing, that its always the l2p arguement from your playerbase, as if you didnt fuck up your engage when someone is able to add you.
So yeah. L2pick your fights.

Tue 4 May 2021 2:01 PM by Noashakra

Matter of fact being, that DAoC has an implemented powercreep with realm ranks. I would argue, and i think im more right than you and your pseudo righteuouss arguements, that fighting higher RR enemies with multiple friends is the intended way. Why is it my fault you are not good enough at the game to pick targets at locations where you are both added? Maybe you should l2p...

Then when you go to those locations, people bash you because you go for easy kills without challenge and call you lame!
Because let's be honest here, if you don't go to briges/task, what is left? Xp spots and near the relic town (and even there, I saw lamers add with 3+, some are even famous for camping their own gates and swicht between thir toon to have always sos/ip/purge/vanish timers up, and we know who I speak about lol!).
You can never win as a solo.

Tue 4 May 2021 2:15 PM by Malte2502

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 2:01 PM
Matter of fact being, that DAoC has an implemented powercreep with realm ranks. I would argue, and i think im more right than you and your pseudo righteuouss arguements, that fighting higher RR enemies with multiple friends is the intended way. Why is it my fault you are not good enough at the game to pick targets at locations where you are both added? Maybe you should l2p...

Then when you go to those locations, people bash you because you go for easy kills without challenge and call you lame!
Because let's be honest here, if you don't go to briges/task, what is left? Xp spots and near the relic town (and even there, I saw lamers add with 3+, some are even famous for camping their own gates and swicht between thir toon to have always sos/ip/purge/vanish timers up, and we know who I speak about lol!).
You can never win as a solo.

I think you got me wrong here. I am all for adding fights, i think it is the intended way to play the game. I think duels are fine so long as they eigher dont interfere with the normal, intended way of RvRing, or happen in a seperate space.

What im totally not ok with is the pseudo elitist "if you add me i disengage and let the enemy of BOTH of us kill my realmmate"

Because if you then invoke the arguement of l2p i can only say: i can pick my fights, thats why i add 1v1s. You changing the conditions is the problem.

Tue 4 May 2021 2:24 PM by Noashakra

How many people wait for soloer to start a fight and add close to their keep? Too many. Like this they have no risk and all the reward and vulture the soloer deathblow. Why should I let them get the rps and the kill?
Those people want to have their cake and eat it too. If it's a person I respect, I will desengage 100% of the time.

Do you think it's how the game was designed (the the normal, intended way of RvRing - like you said)? To have all the lamers camp their own keep and wait for others to fight?
What a fun game it would be.

Tue 4 May 2021 2:37 PM by Malte2502

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 2:24 PM
How many people wait for soloer to start a fight and add close to their keep? Too many. Like this they have no risk and all the reward and vulture the soloer deathblow. Why should I let them get the rps and the kill?
Those people want to have their cake and eat it too. If it's a person I respect, I will desengage 100% of the time.

Do you think it's how the game was designed (the the normal, intended way of RvRing - like you said)? To have all the lamers camp their own keep and wait for others to fight?

Honestly, if you pick a 1v1 fight at a location you know you get added, then yes. Its your faulty engagement that you then try to correct by assisting the enemy realm (albeit passively). You are in no shape or form marked for 1v1ing. Nobody can know from only watching the scene, that you dont want help. And as there is no mechanic implemented in the game, its pretty obvious the developers didnt want pure clean fight duels to be the standard.

Tue 4 May 2021 3:28 PM by Talo

We need the 4th realm: the outlaws. every realm should expell fighters that retreat from combat because of assistance of a realm mate (add). these characters (/accounts) are not allowed to enter their former realm's pve side, keeps and relic wall's safe side.
Or make death more painful for players. 500g for releasing.
Or both! Then 1vs1 will die soon and rpg fights for realm and king will take place again.

/duck&cover

Tue 4 May 2021 3:33 PM by Malte2502

[i[/i]

Talo wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 3:28 PM
We need the 4th realm: the outlaws. every realm should expell fighters that retreat from combat because of assistance of a realm mate (add). these characters (/accounts) are not allowed to enter their former realm's pve side.
Or make death more painful for players. 500g for releasing.
Or both! Then 1vs1 will die soon and rpg fights for realm and king will take place again.

/duck&cover

Im not a strict ganker also. I like 1v1s as much as i like zerging. I bow when i had a good duel. I dont look for those fights, but i take them. At the same time i have no problem at all being added by eigher side, because thats just how the game works. I will cry for my honorable opponent if a realmmate adds, but i will not disengage.

If you want duels without adds do so via /duel.

Tue 4 May 2021 3:39 PM by evert

Talo wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 3:28 PM
We need the 4th realm: the outlaws. every realm should expell fighters that retreat from combat because of assistance of a realm mate (add). these characters (/accounts) are not allowed to enter their former realm's pve side, keeps and relic wall's safe side.

Yes please. I hate being on the same "side" as most of my realm"mates".

Tue 4 May 2021 3:46 PM by DJ2000

This Discussion is at a stalemate at best.
Otherwise, it would have been resolved in the past 20+ years, don't you think?

Simply agree to disagree and move on.

Tue 4 May 2021 6:59 PM by easytoremember

Talo wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 3:28 PM
We need the 4th realm: the outlaws. every realm should expell fighters that retreat from combat because of assistance of a realm mate (add). these characters (/accounts) are not allowed to enter their former realm's pve side, keeps and relic wall's safe side.
Or make death more painful for players. 500g for releasing.
Or both! Then 1vs1 will die soon and rpg fights for realm and king will take place again.

/duck&cover

I remember a while back someone suggested making EV a region outside the influence of the realms with a pvp ruleset (ie 4th realm)

Tue 4 May 2021 7:09 PM by gotwqqd

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 2:24 PM
How many people wait for soloer to start a fight and add close to their keep? Too many. Like this they have no risk and all the reward and vulture the soloer deathblow. Why should I let them get the rps and the kill?
Those people want to have their cake and eat it too. If it's a person I respect, I will desengage 100% of the time.

Do you think it's how the game was designed (the the normal, intended way of RvRing - like you said)? To have all the lamers camp their own keep and wait for others to fight?
What a fun game it would be.

Move away from the area.....

Tue 4 May 2021 7:58 PM by Adwaenyth

evert wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 3:39 PM
Talo wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 3:28 PM
We need the 4th realm: the outlaws. every realm should expell fighters that retreat from combat because of assistance of a realm mate (add). these characters (/accounts) are not allowed to enter their former realm's pve side, keeps and relic wall's safe side.

Yes please. I hate being on the same "side" as most of my realm"mates".

Horrible idea. Then I can't fight you guys anymore, because we're in the same realm.

Tue 4 May 2021 9:31 PM by lurker

I don't really get the issue here. The social concern for anyone playing the game should be - does my realm mate want/need my help? Am I ruining his fun by adding or indeed not adding? The game has a mechanic to work this all out....

You: /s Need help?
They: /y

If you see a situation where you are concerned about someone pulling off... ask them.
If you add someone's fight without consideration of their enjoyment of the game, you run the risk of them pulling off, this is unavoidable.

There is no right or wrong way to play daoc, its an argument as old as the game. A server that ostracises any given play style, zerg, 8, small or solo will be doomed to fail. Weirdly, to me, most people want don't see it this way it seems. People just see their particular play style as the *correct* one.

A server needs its Its Soloers, Its BG Leaders, Its Newbs, Its Elites, Its villains and its heroes, otherwise it wouldn't be daoc.

----

All that said. The difference in the way GvG and 1v1 is treated here does confuse me.

My 1v1 recent experience: I'm near Beno bridge, some Alb pops a Mid Stealther. I know the guy likes to solo so I stop and watch from away back. Perhaps a couple of other Albs were there, not adding, just watching. Some Dev appears in the Sky. "What you all doing Standing around!? Bow Towns are not allowed!!". I mean, it wasn't even a bow town, there was only one mid there! Seems your being punished for even watching a fight...

Where as GvG: Groups are rewarded RPs with /gvg cleanfight. This encourages bowtown like behaviour and pulling off. They have a trust based system meaning they can still claim these free RPs as long as they *feel* it was fair, even if there we adds. They have a commitment to increase RP gain to make all this competitive with the average zerg RP Gain moving forwards.

Tue 4 May 2021 11:43 PM by Nephamael

Horrible idea. Then I can't fight you guys anymore, because we're in the same realm.

The idea would be that those people are "outcasts" and can fight each other too, even if they are realmmates, no?

That would be totally awesome.

Sadly it won't happen, since we would need an instanced zone to have PvP instead of RvR code in place.

-
Regarding the Realm vs Realm aspect:

Think about it this way - this is a very old game with a very small playerbase - everyone of us has a big interest in the other players logging back in the next day - so think about the human player behind the screen of that that enemy solo that walked 10 minutes to your relic gate the next time you see him 1v1ing there. Let him finish his 1v1 and then kill him afterwards - he will be extremely happy he got a clean fight for his 10 minute time investment and if it was allowed he would pm you to thank you for killing him after and not during the fight.

That said - anyone can play whichever way he or she likes in DaoC, that is the beauty of the game, and the intended way to play was: as you desire! That includes adding as much as fair fighting and pulling off.

Let's be a better community by supporting every playstyle and enjoy the game together. - Having a dedicated or chosen spot for the duellers is a part of supporting general solo play, as it separates duellers from adders and generates more fun, less frustration and less arguing between the 2 different solo playstyles.

Wed 5 May 2021 12:45 AM by Sagz

Malte2502 wrote: ↑
Mon 3 May 2021 2:29 PM
And i wont have to wonder, if the solo Mid standing at Bold that i want to attack may be surrounded by some friendly hib stealthers.

Well, if that is really the case, if you go to fight him, they probably wont "add" your fight if they are all trying to 1v1. So you wont have to wonder and or care if there are other people around. There are a lot of players who earned respect from solos, small mans, and 8mans, and then there are some who are not respected. It comes down to respect to some extent.

Anyone can run into a fight and kill someone who is engaged (well almost anyone) just remember the first rule of adding on a fight, dont lose. But dont be shocked when it happens to you.

Wed 5 May 2021 5:20 AM by MacesB

You are adding a fight without consideration for weather or not your realm mate wants you to (maybe he/she wants a clean fight? Maybe he/she is gonna win anyway and you are basically stealing his/her rps? Maybe he/she is working hard on getting his/her solo title?)

And you know what, that is okay.

But if he/she pulls out without consideration for you (Maybe he/she knows his/her enemy, maybe he/she does it for the reasons mentioned earlier), that has to be okay too.

Nobody is telling you how to play or have fun. So don't push your view of what is right onto others.

Wed 5 May 2021 10:23 AM by Talo

lurker wrote: ↑
Tue 4 May 2021 9:31 PM
I don't really get the issue here. The social concern for anyone playing the game should be - does my realm mate want/need my help? Am I ruining his fun by adding or indeed not adding? The game has a mechanic to work this all out....

You: /s Need help?
They: /y

death must be painful to the player. high cost on healer, pve con loss even in rvr and rp drop on lost fight.
just imagine beeing a ww2 soldier and in front of you 2 guys in close combat, one from your side, one from the other.
You WONT ask, if he needs help and he WONT retreat if you "add". Both of you wont to get home alive. simple as that.
I highly dislike making a rpg an esport shooter like thing. and it's no sparring ring too.

Wed 5 May 2021 2:22 PM by Noashakra

Totally the same, I am sure the WW2 veteran had two health bars on top of the persons heads. Also, I hope they could respawn and rejoin the fight ASAP during WW2.

If you want to compare with FPS games, do the game have rounds? Or stops when the ennemies reach a certain number of kills?

MMORPG are RPG, like you pointed out.
If my role play is a lone hunter who loves tracking preys and kill them 1vs1, with a code of honor, at the risk of his own life, who are you to tell me how I should play the game?
Really rich!

You want to force people to play a role playing game like YOU want, taking out the role play part.

Wed 5 May 2021 3:11 PM by lurker

Talo wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 10:23 AM
death must be painful to the player. high cost on healer, pve con loss even in rvr and rp drop on lost fight.
just imagine beeing a ww2 soldier and in front of you 2 guys in close combat, one from your side, one from the other.
You WONT ask, if he needs help and he WONT retreat if you "add". Both of you wont to get home alive. simple as that.
I highly dislike making a rpg an esport shooter like thing. and it's no sparring ring too.

WW2 is a slightly different scenario.

Wed 5 May 2021 7:03 PM by gotwqqd

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 2:22 PM
Totally the same, I am sure the WW2 veteran had two health bars on top of the persons heads. Also, I hope they could respawn and rejoin the fight ASAP during WW2.

If you want to compare with FPS games, do the game have rounds? Or stops when the ennemies reach a certain number of kills?

MMORPG are RPG, like you pointed out.
If my role play is a lone hunter who loves tracking preys and kill them 1vs1, with a code of honor, at the risk of his own life, who are you to tell me how I should play the game?
Really rich!

You want to force people to play a role playing game like YOU want, taking out the role play part.

No
They are just asking that you live with it the times that a realm mate helps out

Wed 5 May 2021 8:18 PM by Noashakra

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 7:03 PM
Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 5 May 2021 2:22 PM
Totally the same, I am sure the WW2 veteran had two health bars on top of the persons heads. Also, I hope they could respawn and rejoin the fight ASAP during WW2.

If you want to compare with FPS games, do the game have rounds? Or stops when the ennemies reach a certain number of kills?

MMORPG are RPG, like you pointed out.
If my role play is a lone hunter who loves tracking preys and kill them 1vs1, with a code of honor, at the risk of his own life, who are you to tell me how I should play the game?
Really rich!

You want to force people to play a role playing game like YOU want, taking out the role play part.
No
They are just asking that you live with it the times that a realm mate helps out

Nope, because I am not asking the others to play how I want, he does.
I don't try impose my vision of how should everyone play and make silly comparaisons to justify it.
Disengaging because I find no honor in the kill is my role play. People who don't accept that are against the concept of RPG and should maybe think about a different game.