New Debuff reward system - Phoenix Freeshard

I have a suggestion...

I play quite some Animist and Eldritch wich both have great debuffs in their toolkit. But few people use them because Dmg = Rps. No matter if you die or not. And in the end mostly people dont care that much if they win or lose as long as the Rp/Hour is good.

So my simple suggestion is give 1 rp for every target affected by the debuff. Would be very simple. A Aoe Disease would instantly give the caster 10-20rps. Just like when a healer heals people.

I think it would be and easy solution, yet not overpowered but it really feels like you are doing something good.

Like diseasing a zerg. Does wonders really, but few ppl do it because it doesnt directly give them anything, but it helps the realm very much. Since Healers get more rps than any other, why not debuffers?

Sat 12 Sep 2020 3:27 PM by gotwqqd

Toss wrote: ↑
Sat 12 Sep 2020 2:49 PM
I have a suggestion...

I play quite some Animist and Eldritch wich both have great debuffs in their toolkit. But few people use them because Dmg = Rps. No matter if you die or not. And in the end mostly people dont care that much if they win or lose as long as the Rp/Hour is good.

So my simple suggestion is give 1 rp for every target affected by the debuff. Would be very simple. A Aoe Disease would instantly give the caster 10-20rps. Just like when a healer heals people.

I think it would be and easy solution, yet not overpowered but it really feels like you are doing something good.

Like diseasing a zerg. Does wonders really, but few ppl do it because it doesnt directly give them anything, but it helps the realm very much. Since Healers get more rps than any other, why not debuffers?

agree
Anything that helps with an enemy’s demise should be rewarded
Even if only at a fraction of damage reward

Sat 12 Sep 2020 3:49 PM by necrolove1

I agree with this.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 4:04 PM by Fugax

reward more for zering? hum... THe average zerg can and typically makes more rp/hr than any small man as they take keeps, and twrs. Also giving them already an increase. not suer about that. Cuz then you would reward players like Sorcs for there aoe mez. and in some fights thats loads. Its an idea, none the less and will respect ya for it.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 4:53 PM by Toss

Fugax You could still run in as a Solo Sorc and mess 20ppl and get rewarded for it. Right now there is no reason to do it.
It would reward people for 'playing their class' instead of just dish out as much damage as possible.

8v8 groups do this, but they do it for the greater good of the group. A zerg doesnt think like this. People just want to milk out as much as they can.

If we play, i kill 10 people me and my healer friend gets exact same RPs. But the healer gets more because he healed me. But i dont get anything because i nearsighted and diseased the whole grp?

Sat 12 Sep 2020 5:00 PM by Kwall0311

Well if you nearsighted and diseased the whole zerg, that might lead to your team winning, thus rewarding you more RPS. At best it should count as tagging the enemy when they die , like a aoe DD/dot would do. I think Rps for the act itself is over the top.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 5:46 PM by CowwoC

Agree, but don't forget a small root and mezz reward as well.

Sat 12 Sep 2020 9:36 PM by Toss

Kwall0311 Well you are kinda right, but if you are about to get wiped you get more rps for doing Dmg than debuffing even though debuffing can have bigger impact than damage.
And also heals gives rps, but nothing else...

Mon 14 Sep 2020 7:29 AM by Sepplord

for heals to give RP the person being healed has to have killed something doesn't he?

the issue with debuffs giving RP directly is that it would start generating tons of extra-RP without people dieing. Which could be abused and also only incentives mass-tagging. Someone AoE-deseasing a bunch of mezzed people would be detrimental and not helpful to your realm, yet you want to reward that spell per se?

If something should change it should be that heal-RP only work for healing non-groupmembers and additionally they should be shared among the group.

Mon 14 Sep 2020 8:20 AM by inoeth

more rp for zergers? lol no thx

Mon 14 Sep 2020 8:43 AM by Cadebrennus

Where do you stop with such a system? Should an interrupter get RPs every time a Caster's spellcast is interrupted?

Mon 14 Sep 2020 9:39 AM by gotwqqd

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Mon 14 Sep 2020 8:43 AM
Where do you stop with such a system? Should an interrupter get RPs every time a Caster's spellcast is interrupted?

Sure
Why not
If it led to a timely death
You simply need to figure how many rp should be rewarded for each occurance

Mon 14 Sep 2020 7:04 PM by Solong

so in your thinking a Meleeclass doing everything to kill the target should not get the same amount of rps like a debuffclass get? any reason why? healer dont get rps for spreadheal so this is ok for me. Everything else is just funny to read

Mon 14 Sep 2020 8:20 PM by gotwqqd

Solong wrote: ↑
Mon 14 Sep 2020 7:04 PM
so in your thinking a Meleeclass doing everything to kill the target should not get the same amount of rps like a debuffclass get? any reason why? healer dont get rps for spreadheal so this is ok for me. Everything else is just funny to read

How do you draw that conclusion?
If you are grouped you’ll get your equal shares.
If you are using debuff/cc you’ll get some rp.
It’s been stated that the reward is only a fraction of what an aid from a damage dealer is

Mon 14 Sep 2020 8:42 PM by Nephamael

Where do you stop with such a system? Should an interrupter get RPs every time a Caster's spellcast is interrupted?

Yes - every spell hitting a target should give you a kill participation - this threats suggestion is great and should be supported!

Lets calculate, a bard does mezz and rupt a zerg for 30 seconds, he hits 10 aoemezzes on average 5 people and hits 15 people with aoe and inst amnesia over the 30 sec.

Now he gets 1 RP for each cc/rupt = 65 total extra RPs (50 by aoemezz and 15 by amnesia) - doesn't feel imbalanced to me. (realistically he wont be able to hit 10 casts in 30 sec due to interrupt anyway)

- If the RPs gained are 2 crazy in a long drawn out keepfight it can be tuned down or have a cap per hour after a week of testing.

But remember - a caster exploding a target with 3 or 4 casts generates what 150-300 RPs in a fg?

Also we could think about spreading the cc and heal RPs over the group, so everyone get's his share.

Tue 15 Sep 2020 9:35 AM by Toss

Melee, yes, i think that a tank would get rewarded for stuns, snares etc also.

And remember a 50 is worth around 1000rps so gaining that extra 1-10rps per target is nothing in the scheme, but just feels more rewarding to use...

You dont need to ask a good tank to slam, he does it anyway. But casters dont Disease/Snare etc because doing dmg generally gives more rps (sadly)

Tue 15 Sep 2020 10:38 AM by Cadebrennus

Toss wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 9:35 AM
Melee, yes, i think that a tank would get rewarded for stuns, snares etc also.

And remember a 50 is worth around 1000rps so gaining that extra 1-10rps per target is nothing in the scheme, but just feels more rewarding to use...

You dont need to ask a good tank to slam, he does it anyway. But casters dont Disease/Snare etc because doing dmg generally gives more rps (sadly)

Keep in mind that a stun/snare for a tank is a melee hit, so they will always get tagged for a kill. Rewarding behaviour if there isn't a kill is still a good idea though, and perhaps for doing some damage even if there isn't a kill (such as nearly killing a Minstrel/Skald/Assassin and they just SoS/Vanish)

Tue 15 Sep 2020 2:05 PM by ExcretusMaximus

I support the idea of handing out RPs for things that matter in a fight when the target dies (CC, debuffs, etc) but let's not get into the participation trophy mindset and start giving out RPs for every little random thing here. If the target didn't die, you don't get anything.

Tue 15 Sep 2020 2:19 PM by DinoTriz

I think any negative action against an enemy player should be rewarded.

And any positive action for a non-grouped friendly player should be rewarded.

The goal is to have everyone use all of their tools for the good of the realm, correct?

And yes, we should reward the zerg. It's a war. The zerg represents the war. A small man/8-man are special operations. Stealthers are black ops. And relics are the nuclear codes.

Tue 15 Sep 2020 2:34 PM by Sepplord

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 2:19 PM
The goal is to have everyone use all of their tools for the good of the realm, correct?

easier said than done though...
you would also have to punish people for incorrect use then though, otherwise spamming AoE-desease onto a clump of mezzed targets would become an even more common thing

At that point it gets really tricky though...how do you automatically determine if an action was good or bad. It's basically impossible to have such a system that works properly and doesn't lead to "odd" scenarios

Tue 15 Sep 2020 2:40 PM by necrolove1

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 2:05 PM
I support the idea of handing out RPs for things that matter in a fight when the target dies (CC, debuffs, etc) but let's not get into the participation trophy mindset and start giving out RPs for every little random thing here. If the target didn't die, you don't get anything.

Agreed 100%

Tue 15 Sep 2020 2:45 PM by DinoTriz

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 2:34 PM
easier said than done though...
you would also have to punish people for incorrect use then though, otherwise spamming AoE-desease onto a clump of mezzed targets would become an even more common thing

At that point it gets really tricky though...how do you automatically determine if an action was good or bad. It's basically impossible to have such a system that works properly and doesn't lead to "odd" scenarios

Doesn't the zerg already spam their spells irresponsibly though? They're going to break a mez anyway with their damage (because they want RPs). I'd rather give a CC class the option of using a CC or Dmg than just Dmg alone like it is now.

Any damage or CC or debuff spell would count as a negative action against an enemy. I think it would be pretty straightforward.

Tue 15 Sep 2020 6:57 PM by Toss

DinoTriz what is best can be discussed... Why should Mez be prioritized? After a certain number of enemies just massive AOE is better than single target specific players. A disease can be worth twice as much in a fight than a Mez, depending on the situation

Tue 15 Sep 2020 9:03 PM by Cadebrennus

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 2:05 PM
I support the idea of handing out RPs for things that matter in a fight when the target dies (CC, debuffs, etc) but let's not get into the participation trophy mindset and start giving out RPs for every little random thing here. If the target didn't die, you don't get anything.

I agree with you up to a point, especially on the participation trophy bit.

However, it is just frustrating as hell to get an enemy down to near death only to have them push a skill-less "fuck you" button like SoS or Vanish and then you get ZERO RPs.