Nerf Tangler root pls - Phoenix Freeshard

or atleast fix the obvious bugs like the missing 2nd range check. Also their casting speed feels way too high compared to any previous live patch

Wed 29 May 2019 7:14 AM by Sepplord

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 10:04 PM
or atleast fix the obvious bugs like the missing 2nd range check. Also their casting speed feels way too high compared to any previous live patch

a few days ago i though a sylvan had quickcast rooted me, but after he was dead i noticed he had quickcasted a tangler behind me ^^
The root came basically with his casting animation, seemed very fast (yes the animation is also different but i didn't think it completely through and the fight ended a second later anyways)

Wed 29 May 2019 8:57 AM by keen

well the current state is pretty ridiculous, every rr3 hib pug with an animist can hold back 2fg from alb or mid easily.

Wed 29 May 2019 10:24 AM by ulf

yes please nerf duration to 10 seconds

Wed 29 May 2019 3:19 PM by

gruenesschaf

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 10:04 PM
or atleast fix the obvious bugs like the missing 2nd range check

You mean the range check that not a single npc has or ever had?

It's fine to suggest that mobs should have a second los or range check but it wouldn't be a bug fix. This would be a rather big nerf to all caster pets, like theurgist ice pets, as those basically wouldn't hit anything against groups that are kiting and it would also affect the necro quite a bit.

Wed 29 May 2019 3:23 PM by Roto23

do we gain immunity after the first 32 sec animist root?

Wed 29 May 2019 3:32 PM by MyCatKevin

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 3:19 PM
Nefcait wrote: ↑
Tue 28 May 2019 10:04 PM
or atleast fix the obvious bugs like the missing 2nd range check

You mean the range check that not a single npc has or ever had?

It's fine to suggest that mobs should have a second los or range check but it wouldn't be a bug fix. This would be a rather big nerf to all caster pets, like theurgist ice pets, as those basically wouldn't hit anything against groups that are kiting and it would also affect the necro quite a bit.

IMO a second range/los check should have been there from the beginning on live. Animists just made it more apparent because of the fact that you could take huge amounts of damage from just looking out a window of a keep for half a second.

I would say an additional range of ~15%-25% for the 2nd range check on pets would make sense. That way if someone is actively kiting the pets then it would be tough for a pet to get a cast off just like an actual caster. But if someone is just moving during the fight it won't completely negate the pet.

Wed 29 May 2019 4:33 PM by Turano

I'ld rather have a line of sight check than a range check.
Range check would make certain things useless

Thu 30 May 2019 5:18 PM by Siouxsie

Yes, fix LOS check on *ALL* Animist pets. If I go around a corner, the shrooms should stop DDing me, not continue to do so through that wall.
Most overpowered thing on the server.

Thu 30 May 2019 5:38 PM by Bradekes

Don't change LOS.. It gives room for abuse.. Have someone get in los and retreat then everyone piles in while pets fail to cast

Fri 31 May 2019 8:25 AM by pax

For me is needed an immunity timer too, yesterday i tryhard a bit with an 8man to take down a group of hibs but shrooms are so much damn hard to control during a fight and can be casted in tons. Is hard to kite and is hard to push. A bad group with this powerful weapon remain a bad group, but on higher level skills elder tanglers are gamebreaking and unbalancing the fights by a lot.. Basicaly you are unattackable because the tanglers keeps supports behinde and is even hard to fly away when it starts to be bad.

Fri 31 May 2019 1:25 PM by dbeattie71

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Thu 30 May 2019 5:18 PM
Yes, fix LOS check on *ALL* Animist pets. If I go around a corner, the shrooms should stop DDing me, not continue to do so through that wall.
Most overpowered thing on the server.

And BD pets too.

Fri 31 May 2019 3:15 PM by Dakar

Yes, something need to be done with Animists. Animist Pets need to be nerfed (castspeed 10sec, 2nd LOS-check). Play as a Mid or Alb against Hibs if u cant relate.

No fun in keep defense at all. As a Mid? Just avoid inc to hibgrps, ridiculous atm.

Fri 31 May 2019 4:06 PM by Onnit

Never had problems with animist tangler on Alb, confuse insta kills them and is 1500 range unlike 1000 range shroom cast, also can just disengage fight and re engage from around the shroom field :p

Fri 31 May 2019 4:15 PM by anuddashoah

they dont have a range or line of sight check on live. On live I've ran through a shroom field that got mezzed after it started casting only for it to randomly nuke me when I was nowhere near it

Fri 31 May 2019 5:25 PM by Siouxsie

anuddashoah wrote: ↑
Fri 31 May 2019 4:15 PM
they dont have a range or line of sight check on live. On live I've ran through a shroom field that got mezzed after it started casting only for it to randomly nuke me when I was nowhere near it

This is why Animists should be deleted from the game. It's clearly a broken class.

Sat 1 Jun 2019 12:00 PM by Nefcait

Some mid players told me they don't engage hib grps at all and just run away from them if there is an animist in the grp because of how ridiculous the tangler roots are

Sat 1 Jun 2019 12:08 PM by Siouxsie

Nefcait wrote: ↑
Sat 1 Jun 2019 12:00 PM
Some mid players told me they don't engage hib grps at all and just run away from them if there is an animist in the grp because of how ridiculous the tangler roots are

Yeah but you can't run away from them because of the fecking 2300 instant amnesia spell.

Sat 1 Jun 2019 2:52 PM by keen

Is suggest a 15-30s recast timer on tanglers so you can't just put a field of then making it impossible to engage the hib grp.

Sat 1 Jun 2019 8:04 PM by easytoremember

RUT on tangler is too far
LOS check on shrooms is exploitable because they're stationary
Cutting the root duration makes them useless
Making them cast slower likely results in them being killed prior to completing cast
Making them ruptable removes bigger chance of completing cast

Running into a shroomfield should always be a bad thing
Allowing an animist to plant shrooms on top of you should be a bad thing

Currently though they can set tangers "on top of you" at 1000-2000 range (summon range+root range)
That makes it unthesable to hit he animist without permitting him to -s-h-r-o-o-m- tangler your location

The only change I would suggest is the decreasing the range of the tangler summon, and only the tangler summon
Being hit by Forest Hearts at 2000 range does not prevent you from closing distance or running (as a group)
Being rooted by Tangler at 2000 does both

800 or 750 summon range for Tangler grants 1000-1750 or 1000-1800, just short of bolt range (effectively 1650 or 1700 range for most zones)
In the same way as a bolt, the actual effect of the spell is delayed (bolt travel time vs tangler cast time)

That said I think 500 range would be too extreme- while matching the 1500 cast range (500 summon+1000 root) may seem reasonable, the terrain very often reduces the actual summon distance by ~100

Just keep in mind they are stationary pets that last for 2 minutes and eat power, often just sitting there until they die without doing anything

While you're talking about shrooms you may consider doing the opposite for Spore Spewers and increase their summon range to 1150-1200

Sun 2 Jun 2019 10:05 AM by Meandow

Some changes are definitely in order. People are building their entire playstyle around tanglers, people are dodging fights because of tanglers and people are rerolling to hib because of tanglers. If this is not enough to make you realize something is wrong then I don't know what is.

Possible changes for the sake of discussion:
- Cooldown on tangler (10 seconds?)
- 1 tangler per 1000 yards
- Add 2nd range check
- Lower hp

I honestly feel like tanglers are hurting the server, 8mans can manage the tanglers and there aren't really any tangler groups that are good in 8v8 but the zerg/non 8 set grps are really struggling. In order to fight off 10 tanglers you need some coordination which the majority of groups on this server doesn't have. The biggest problem though isn't that you can fight off double your numbers with ease, the problem is that it requires 0 skill, form a back line of tanglers and just run through them and you've effictively reduced their numbers with 75%.

Sun 2 Jun 2019 10:25 AM by Meandow

Onnit wrote: ↑
Fri 31 May 2019 4:06 PM
Never had problems with animist tangler on Alb, confuse insta kills them and is 1500 range unlike 1000 range shroom cast, also can just disengage fight and re engage from around the shroom field :p

Didn't you just roll an animist?

Sun 2 Jun 2019 11:18 AM by Siouxsie

Meandow wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 10:25 AM
Onnit wrote: ↑
Fri 31 May 2019 4:06 PM
Never had problems with animist tangler on Alb, confuse insta kills them and is 1500 range unlike 1000 range shroom cast, also can just disengage fight and re engage from around the shroom field :p

Didn't you just roll an animist?

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Shroomit

Perhaps?

Sun 2 Jun 2019 12:22 PM by Meandow

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 11:18 AM
Meandow wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 10:25 AM
Onnit wrote: ↑
Fri 31 May 2019 4:06 PM
Never had problems with animist tangler on Alb, confuse insta kills them and is 1500 range unlike 1000 range shroom cast, also can just disengage fight and re engage from around the shroom field :p

Didn't you just roll an animist?

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Shroomit

Perhaps?

Close.

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Onnitrippin

Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:25 AM by Onnit

Lol 😀 the secret is out Yes I roll animist so I can live off the OP tanglers you got me... or maybe it’s my farm char for other classes

Wed 5 Jun 2019 7:47 AM by Raunz

Fact is tanglers with combination of new ras aka icor mainly make the combo way too strong while you lack everything else that comes with that patch level so it's clearly a mess. There are many more of examples not just shrooms+icor.

Sun 9 Jun 2019 2:13 PM by dbeattie71

Onnit wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:25 AM
Lol 😀 the secret is out Yes I roll animist so I can live off the OP tanglers you got me... or maybe it’s my farm char for other classes

Actually, I posted this in another thread. Rolling an Animist is the best way to learn how to deal with them. I play mid sometimes and haven’t died to a shroom yet but see people do dumb stuff and die to them. I suppose crying for nerfs is easier.

Sun 9 Jun 2019 2:32 PM by Druth

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Jun 2019 2:13 PM
Onnit wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:25 AM
Lol 😀 the secret is out Yes I roll animist so I can live off the OP tanglers you got me... or maybe it’s my farm char for other classes

Actually, I posted this in another thread. Rolling an Animist is the best way to learn how to deal with them. I play mid sometimes and haven’t died to a shroom yet but see people do dumb stuff and die to them. I suppose crying for nerfs is easier.

Shows your immense animist knowledge. You don't die to tanglers, which is what this whole thread is about.

Sun 9 Jun 2019 2:47 PM by Gweinyth

Once again there is another post to nerf a hib class. Why are none of you talking about the fact that a theurgist pet can run through keep walls and attack me. Obviously this needs nerfed. There is no way you can claim to see me behind a wall. Or what about the fact that you can have 30 bonedancer pets in an area but only a total of 15 animist pets no matter how many animists are there? Lets nerf that and make a limit on the number of bd pets that can be in a certain range.

Get over this and learn to play your own strengths against the weakness of the other classes.

Sun 9 Jun 2019 3:00 PM by dbeattie71

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Jun 2019 2:32 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Jun 2019 2:13 PM
Onnit wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 7:25 AM
Lol 😀 the secret is out Yes I roll animist so I can live off the OP tanglers you got me... or maybe it’s my farm char for other classes

Actually, I posted this in another thread. Rolling an Animist is the best way to learn how to deal with them. I play mid sometimes and haven’t died to a shroom yet but see people do dumb stuff and die to them. I suppose crying for nerfs is easier.

Shows your immense animist knowledge. You don't die to tanglers, which is what this whole thread is about.

Where did I say people die to tanglers? There are so many whines and cries about hib all the nerf hib posts blur together.

Sun 9 Jun 2019 3:17 PM by Druth

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Jun 2019 3:00 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Jun 2019 2:32 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Jun 2019 2:13 PM
Actually, I posted this in another thread. Rolling an Animist is the best way to learn how to deal with them. I play mid sometimes and haven’t died to a shroom yet but see people do dumb stuff and die to them. I suppose crying for nerfs is easier.

Shows your immense animist knowledge. You don't die to tanglers, which is what this whole thread is about.

Where did I say people die to tanglers? There are so many whines and cries about hib all the nerf hib posts blur together.

I just assumed.
Since this whole thread is dedicated to tangler root, which is also in the title, it seemed odd you bragged about not dying to shrooms.

Are there other things you'd also like to share that you don't die to?
And not just you, we can change the thread into "What I don't die to", keep it "tangler root" only, or just let it die since they now have been nerfed, and be grateful for it.

Sun 9 Jun 2019 3:37 PM by dbeattie71

Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Jun 2019 3:17 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Jun 2019 3:00 PM
Druth wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Jun 2019 2:32 PM
Shows your immense animist knowledge. You don't die to tanglers, which is what this whole thread is about.

Where did I say people die to tanglers? There are so many whines and cries about hib all the nerf hib posts blur together.

I just assumed.
Since this whole thread is dedicated to tangler root, which is also in the title, it seemed odd you bragged about not dying to shrooms.

Are there other things you'd also like to share that you don't die to?
And not just you, we can change the thread into "What I don't die to", keep it "tangler root" only, or just let it die since they now have been nerfed, and be grateful for it.

Now that they’re nerfed, what’s the next thing to cry about?

Sun 9 Jun 2019 3:45 PM by Druth

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Sun 9 Jun 2019 3:37 PM
Now that they’re nerfed, what’s the next thing to cry about?

lol, I have no idea.

I didn't cry about them, but can still see the nerf was fine.
And currently I have no balance issues.

There is plenty of anti-fun issues imo, but I prefer to keep anti-fun and balance issues separated.

Edit: Let me elaborate why I think the nerf was fine. It was wrong that a pet knew if someone had immunity or not. Shrooms should be utterly mindless, it's part of their weakness.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 2:44 PM by gotwqqd

I think the cast of 50ms was a bigger issue
If the nerf was one or the other I would pick cast timer
But they did both so that’s good

Mon 10 Jun 2019 2:56 PM by Bradekes

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 2:44 PM
I think the cast of 50ms was a bigger issue
If the nerf was one or the other I would pick cast timer
But they did both so that’s good

The cast wasn't 50ms.. The retargetting of the pet was.. Meaning the pet was able to target a new enemy without immunity after .5 seconds of it casting root.. Tge cast time didn't change