Nerf Spiritmaster pet intercept again

After your patch of 2020-01-26 "sm intercept rate has been reduced to match testing" it occours to me to inc a 3Lx SM with my 9Lx NS .. after PA chain it was still alive .. after like 2 minutes of fighting with him almost continuosly casting lifedrain, I finally kill him but it was close .. in the meanwhile I have killed his pet (without targetting him but only with intercept damage) and he redo it with quickcast .. after the battle I look in the log .. and there was much more then half my hits intercepted .. sometimes 5/6 hits intercepted in a row .. I don't now what you have reduced .. for me is still a no sense

Wed 12 Feb 2020 4:51 PM by opossum12

Can you provide the log with the list of hits, providing statistics on intercept rate of the pet.

Are you able to repeat that over multiple fights, as we all know taking a single event isn't necessarily a perfect representation of the reality.

Wed 12 Feb 2020 6:12 PM by Sepplord

In addition to oppossums question it doesnt seem balanced that a spiritmaster of any RR can almost continously lifedrain an NS for 2minutes without the NS dieing

I believe 30seconds of casting is already too much so NS healthpool must be nerfed by at least 75%.

Well, that...or something about the story isn't checking out.

Wed 12 Feb 2020 9:21 PM by The Skies Asunder

I have had some decent success against SM since the nerf. I know personally, that if any caster was "continually" casting any sort of damage spell on me, I would be dead in roughly 15 seconds at the very most, as I only have those wimpy Elf hit points of around 1950.

Fri 14 Feb 2020 1:36 PM by dearen75

Sry for late answer .. I haven't a fight log .. ok maybe 2 minutes is too much .. but 1 minute for sure .. it seemed like forever for me being on DC bridge keep swinging at this Frostalf and he never dies .. I think I lasted so much because he used a low level MOC on the first 30 secs of fight and also because my lifedrain weapons has procced sometimes .. but the problem here isn't the MOC .. that's ok .. the problem is the intercept rate that seems insane .. or maybe I have very bad luck that time .. you can trust me or not .. if you have an assassin try it by yourself .. I will retry next time and tell you what happens

Fri 14 Feb 2020 2:12 PM by Sepplord

dearen75 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 1:36 PM
.. you can trust me or not ..

No offense, but i chose to "not"
I have been surprised quite a few times myself how things can be twisted in our memory...
even if it is just a few seconds ago

I can record the last two minutes of my gameplay with a button press...in the beginning i was surprised how short "long feeling fights" can be, because i was worrying that everything would be on the video, and when checking later there would be 30seconds or a fullminute of cruising before the fight even starts.
Additionally it is quite frequent when i run smallmen with my friends for a few hours that two of us completely disagree on some details that happened in the last fight and when i check the video to solve the dispute and it's not rare to find they are both incorrect

Fri 14 Feb 2020 2:16 PM by dearen75

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 2:12 PM
dearen75 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 1:36 PM
.. you can trust me or not ..

No offense, but i chose to "not"
I have been surprised quite a few times myself how things can be twisted in our memory...
even if it is just a few seconds ago

I can record the last two minutes of my gameplay with a button press...in the beginning i was surprised how short "long feeling fights" can be, because i was worrying that everything would be on the video, and when checking later there would be 30seconds or a fullminute of cruising before the fight even starts.
Additionally it is quite frequent when i run smallmen with my friends for a few hours that two of us completely disagree on some details that happened in the last fight and when i check the video to solve the dispute and it's not rare to find they are both incorrect

Yeah .. maybe you are right for what concerns the duration of the fight .. but the intercept rate I've checked after the fight and it was really really often .. next time I hope to remember to enable chatlog so I can report it

Fri 14 Feb 2020 3:57 PM by

gruenesschaf

SM pet intercept is one of the only chance based melee combat related things that still use the normal rng making streaks (positive or negative) possible. Adding streak avoidance here would actually change something rather fundamentally as then the caster would never be able to cast while being attacked.

The same argument can be made for guard / dashing, however, here the most common use case is guarding a target that is being assisted on to reduce the damage while peeling the melees making the interrupt prevention a minor and not really relied upon benefit whereas the sm pet intercept has solo play as the most common use case where it is somewhat expected that you can get out some nukes in some fights.

Fri 14 Feb 2020 4:34 PM by gotwqqd

Live with it
A couple classes you should keep away from

Fri 14 Feb 2020 6:41 PM by dearen75

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 3:57 PM
SM pet intercept is one of the only chance based melee combat related things that still use the normal rng making streaks (positive or negative) possible. Adding streak avoidance here would actually change something rather fundamentally as then the caster would never be able to cast while being attacked.

The same argument can be made for guard / dashing, however, here the most common use case is guarding a target that is being assisted on to reduce the damage while peeling the melees making the interrupt prevention a minor and not really relied upon benefit whereas the sm pet intercept has solo play as the most common use case where it is somewhat expected that you can get out some nukes in some fights.

So you are telling that the intercept rate is 50/50 totally random .. it could be 10 intercept in a row .. like 10 hits in a row and so on ?
What I don't understand (but this is maybe a question for who has created DAOC) is why SM should to be able to cast while being attacked in melee while all the others casters can't except using MOC or quickcast.

Fri 14 Feb 2020 7:45 PM by Isavyr

dearen75 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 6:41 PM
So you are telling that the intercept rate is 50/50 totally random .. it could be 10 intercept in a row .. like 10 hits in a row and so on ?
What I don't understand (but this is maybe a question for who has created DAOC) is why SM should to be able to cast while being attacked in melee while all the others casters can't except using MOC or quickcast.

BD can execute spells without casting.
Necro shade can cast while its pet is being attacked.

By and large, DAOC has a consistent framework. However, Mythic was foolish enough to consistently break this framework when selling expansions.

Fri 14 Feb 2020 8:02 PM by vxr

dearen75 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 6:41 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 3:57 PM
SM pet intercept is one of the only chance based melee combat related things that still use the normal rng making streaks (positive or negative) possible. Adding streak avoidance here would actually change something rather fundamentally as then the caster would never be able to cast while being attacked.

The same argument can be made for guard / dashing, however, here the most common use case is guarding a target that is being assisted on to reduce the damage while peeling the melees making the interrupt prevention a minor and not really relied upon benefit whereas the sm pet intercept has solo play as the most common use case where it is somewhat expected that you can get out some nukes in some fights.

So you are telling that the intercept rate is 50/50 totally random .. it could be 10 intercept in a row .. like 10 hits in a row and so on ?
What I don't understand (but this is maybe a question for who has created DAOC) is why SM should to be able to cast while being attacked in melee while all the others casters can't except using MOC or quickcast.

Because that is what makes SM unique is that the pet intercepts and then the SM can cast. Why should BDs be allowed to insta life tap? They can life tap through melee and through normal casting interrupts. Why can minstrels stun and DD while getting interrupted. skalds can mezz, snare and DD. Champs can snare and DD.

The pet now takes 3X more damage than before. I have had plenty of times were I would have to recast the pet before the nerf. If your not killing the pet now than I am going to assume your doing something wrong. Look at the number of solo SM kills for the week. It has dropped down significantly. I don't know what solo players want. They want everyone to be the same class with the same abilities? Nerf minstrels next. Than skalds and necro and then the only solo we are going to see are stealthers. And good lord we know that most of them don't like to solo. A class without speed or stealth needs to be strong 1v1 if they have any chance of being successful solo.

Fri 14 Feb 2020 8:38 PM by Quik

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 7:45 PM
dearen75 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 6:41 PM
So you are telling that the intercept rate is 50/50 totally random .. it could be 10 intercept in a row .. like 10 hits in a row and so on ?
What I don't understand (but this is maybe a question for who has created DAOC) is why SM should to be able to cast while being attacked in melee while all the others casters can't except using MOC or quickcast.

BD can execute spells without casting.
Necro shade can cast while its pet is being attacked.

By and large, DAOC has a consistent framework. However, Mythic was foolish enough to consistently break this framework when selling expansions.

Wait, are you telling me the Warlock was OP? Pfft I don't believe it...or the Vamp...or the Banshee...don't remember about the brawler though, or was it something else? I never played them much. The Vamp was amazing though I will admit. I love reading about how everyone talked about how easy it was to kill a Vamp, but when I played them I think I lost like once during a 1v1 and I fought almost every class. The one time I lost I still think he had outside help...

Fri 14 Feb 2020 9:11 PM by borodino1812

Not sure I have ever played a class more OP than Warlock when the class released.

Fri 14 Feb 2020 10:44 PM by Quik

borodino1812 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 9:11 PM
Not sure I have ever played a class more OP than Warlock when the class released.

When Warlock first released there was nothing that compared.

That charge system was just stupidly OP and they destroyed everything.

Sat 15 Feb 2020 12:14 AM by The Skies Asunder

Quik wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 10:44 PM
borodino1812 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 9:11 PM
Not sure I have ever played a class more OP than Warlock when the class released.

When Warlock first released there was nothing that compared.

That charge system was just stupidly OP and they destroyed everything.

Yup. Dumbest thing ever. You could get killed entirely by a DoT, and an instant chamber spell. After which the warlock would run away, and leave you to die if you didn't have a cure, or purge. You really couldn't win, even if you landed PA, and CD, they would just insta dump all the damage on you, and heal themselves lmao. Lots of OP stuff was released in the expansions... though I ended up loving Valkyrie once they added all the mending changes. Bainshee become reasonable after some nerfs, and heretic became mostly reasonable as well eventually.

Sat 15 Feb 2020 3:32 AM by gotwqqd

But a vamp could go from one kill to another nonstop
You could at least catch a warlock with his pants down after a battle

Sat 15 Feb 2020 7:54 AM by easytoremember

Is the stun too entirely rng?

Sat 15 Feb 2020 1:00 PM by dearen75

vxr wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 8:02 PM
Because that is what makes SM unique is that the pet intercepts and then the SM can cast. Why should BDs be allowed to insta life tap? They can life tap through melee and through normal casting interrupts. Why can minstrels stun and DD while getting interrupted. skalds can mezz, snare and DD. Champs can snare and DD.

The pet now takes 3X more damage than before. I have had plenty of times were I would have to recast the pet before the nerf. If your not killing the pet now than I am going to assume your doing something wrong. Look at the number of solo SM kills for the week. It has dropped down significantly. I don't know what solo players want. They want everyone to be the same class with the same abilities? Nerf minstrels next. Than skalds and necro and then the only solo we are going to see are stealthers. And good lord we know that most of them don't like to solo. A class without speed or stealth needs to be strong 1v1 if they have any chance of being successful solo.

As you say, it's unique .. all others casters have to quickcast or moc (bd is another category and is from SI) .. champ/minis/skalds aren't straight casters .. I compare SM with Cabby .. they both have summoned pet .. that stuns .. they both have lifedrain .. they both have root .. so why SM has to able to cast while in melee and Cabby don't? .. but ok . let's say that Mythic in far 2001 thinking about "realm balance" give the SM pet the ability to intercept .. the problem here isn't the intercept itself .. but how often it occurs .. I could understand that "sometimes" a SM can cast while in melee .. but not that he's "sometimes" hit while the majority of the blows directed to him are intercepted .. and that's the feeling when attacking SM .. and I hadn't this feeling in all the other servers I've played since 2001 .. so what I'm thinking is that this thing is related to Phoenix server

Sat 15 Feb 2020 4:20 PM by vxr

dearen75 wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Feb 2020 1:00 PM
vxr wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 8:02 PM
Because that is what makes SM unique is that the pet intercepts and then the SM can cast. Why should BDs be allowed to insta life tap? They can life tap through melee and through normal casting interrupts. Why can minstrels stun and DD while getting interrupted. skalds can mezz, snare and DD. Champs can snare and DD.

The pet now takes 3X more damage than before. I have had plenty of times were I would have to recast the pet before the nerf. If your not killing the pet now than I am going to assume your doing something wrong. Look at the number of solo SM kills for the week. It has dropped down significantly. I don't know what solo players want. They want everyone to be the same class with the same abilities? Nerf minstrels next. Than skalds and necro and then the only solo we are going to see are stealthers. And good lord we know that most of them don't like to solo. A class without speed or stealth needs to be strong 1v1 if they have any chance of being successful solo.

As you say, it's unique .. all others casters have to quickcast or moc (bd is another category and is from SI) .. champ/minis/skalds aren't straight casters .. I compare SM with Cabby .. they both have summoned pet .. that stuns .. they both have lifedrain .. they both have root .. so why SM has to able to cast while in melee and Cabby don't? .. but ok . let's say that Mythic in far 2001 thinking about "realm balance" give the SM pet the ability to intercept .. the problem here isn't the intercept itself .. but how often it occurs .. I could understand that "sometimes" a SM can cast while in melee .. but not that he's "sometimes" hit while the majority of the blows directed to him are intercepted .. and that's the feeling when attacking SM .. and I hadn't this feeling in all the other servers I've played since 2001 .. so what I'm thinking is that this thing is related to Phoenix server

It is not related to Phoenix server. I also played live since release and played a solo SM (somewhere around 2008-2011). The pet had the same intercept there. Solo SM was even stronger on live because you could buff the pet. The pet would rarely die intercepting. Also with faster casting from ToA stats and buff bots you could get more casts in during intercept. MLs also helped with ML9 pet, brittle guard and SL nodes.

I haven't played live in about 7 years so SM might be different now.

Cabbys have nearsight and disease which makes them much more desirable to groups. SM has intercept which allows them to solo but is pretty useless in 8 Mans.
Just take a look at RPs per class. Cabbys have a lot more RPS. SM is the ONLY class not represented on the top 250 RP list.

Mon 17 Feb 2020 9:13 AM by Razur Ur

vxr wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 8:02 PM
dearen75 wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 6:41 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 14 Feb 2020 3:57 PM
SM pet intercept is one of the only chance based melee combat related things that still use the normal rng making streaks (positive or negative) possible. Adding streak avoidance here would actually change something rather fundamentally as then the caster would never be able to cast while being attacked.

The same argument can be made for guard / dashing, however, here the most common use case is guarding a target that is being assisted on to reduce the damage while peeling the melees making the interrupt prevention a minor and not really relied upon benefit whereas the sm pet intercept has solo play as the most common use case where it is somewhat expected that you can get out some nukes in some fights.

So you are telling that the intercept rate is 50/50 totally random .. it could be 10 intercept in a row .. like 10 hits in a row and so on ?
What I don't understand (but this is maybe a question for who has created DAOC) is why SM should to be able to cast while being attacked in melee while all the others casters can't except using MOC or quickcast.

Because that is what makes SM unique is that the pet intercepts and then the SM can cast. Why should BDs be allowed to insta life tap? They can life tap through melee and through normal casting interrupts. Why can minstrels stun and DD while getting interrupted. skalds can mezz, snare and DD. Champs can snare and DD.

That was the reason for 8 second timer with insta LT on live Server btw :-) and have not the sm pet more hp on phönix how on live server?

Mon 17 Feb 2020 2:17 PM by sylvynyr

Haven't tried since the patch, but pre-patch, the issue was pretty obvious. If you target the SM and constantly melee without ever targeting the pet, when the pet dies first, there's a problem. When the pet dies first and the SM still has 2/3+ life, there's a massive problem. I wish I had the chat.log of that fight to see how much damage was actually done, but then again this was pre-patch.