Leave Midgard body/energy/spirit debuff duration at 30s.

This post contains a set of possible solutions to what I believe is a non-existent problem.

Terms
BSE: Body/Spirit/Energy
DD: Direct Damage
Primary spellcaster: Eldritch, Wizard, Runemaster
Secondary Spellcaster: Spiritmaster, Enchanter

Introduction
I read how this server is reducing the 30s duration on Midgard's body/spirit/resist buffs (hereby referred to as BSE resists). Why, I wonder? Were these groups especially strong? No, not even 1% of all Midgard's group compositions on any classic server are BSE caster group! Therefore, it appears to be an effort to standardize these debuffs with the other realms'. However, I believe this would be a mistake, because [1] Midgard's casters do not offer the same utility as other realms--their secondary casters don't even have a BSE baseline, for example, and [2] their BSE baseline DD found in the Runemaster is significantly weaker than its baseline cold DD. Both of these conditions were fixed on live--secondary casters got BSE baseline DD, and BSE DDs were made comparable to the other DDs.

Evidence
Classic Runemaster
Baseline (Cold) delve dmg: 179
Cast time: 2.6
DPS: 68.8

Baseline (Energy) delve dmg: 176
Cast time: 3.0
DPS: 58.6 (15% less DPS--equivalent of 1.5 relics)

Live Runemaster
Baseline (Cold) delve dmg: 179.5
Cast time: 2.6
DPS: 69.0

Baseline (Energy) delve dmg: 179
Cast time: 2.6
DPS: 68.8

Clearly, the secondary nuke type is weaker among classic runemasters. This is a problem for Hibernia as well, but not Albion, which gets a strong baseline BSE nuke for the sorc/cabby, which are a mainstay of their realm's caster utility. The secondary casters of Hibernia and Midgard do not even get a BSE baseline DD. This change further weakens these damage types' feasibility, which was already very poor.

Summary
To re-iterate, the conditions for this change exist on live, but not on Phoenix thus far. Midgard caster groups are already a rarity, and BSE groups are non-existent. This nerf is attacking a non-existent problem, and weakening the possible Midgard caster builds even further.

Possible Solutions

Ensure all realm's have equal cast-time for the BSE nukes, as live did. Possibly add secondary BSE baseline DDs to all realms. (only Albion has them in 1.65)

Restore Midgard's BSE debuff to 30s. Possibly give 30s durations to Hibernia's BSE debuffs as well.

Keep it consistent with 1.65, which means 30s duration.

I think the first two solutions are a better route to standardization. While homogenizing things is an easy way to reaching balance, it also hurts variation which is a key part of DAoC. I therefore argue the second solution and third solution are most desirable. Post your thoughts!

OK so maybe the formatting was a bit much...

Mon 26 Mar 2018 7:34 PM by Caballo

Thank you Isavyr for your suggestion.

First of all I'd like to inform you, that we have discussed this topic within the staff and we agreed on putting Midgard's BSE-debuffs in line with other realms secondary resist debuffs.
However, as usual, our decisions are not set in stone - we'll see how it goes. (But my guess is that this change is very unlikely to be revoked.)

We promised maximum transparency so here we go:

- There will be no "new secondary nukes" on Phoenix. So no spirit baseline nukes in Mid.
- RC provides a nuke with a slightly lower delve, thats correct and will stay as it is.

So why reduce the debuff duration?
- We buffed the Spiritmaster alot (see Class Changes) so you can freely choose between Supp and Dark Spec without sacrificing the Demezz
- Thus, there will hopefully be more Dark SMs around and more Mids playing hybrid or caster lineups
- As they will (most likely) bring a Supp-RM (179,5 delve Energy snare-nuke) along with the Dark-SM we want to guarantee a fair and rewarding teamplay by putting the debuff in line with all other debuffs.

Hope I could help.

Best
Caballo

Mon 26 Mar 2018 10:44 PM by Isavyr

Thanks for the reply, Caballo! Appreciate the reply, and hope to continue the discussion. You mentioned buffing Spiritmaster a lot, so I double checked class changes in announcements. All I found was this:

The demezz has been moved from 28 Suppression to 26. This actually shifts Midgard caster groups group composition even more towards a cold debuff meta--where it already was--because people can spec full Darkness (47), while gaining demezz from offspec suppression. Obviously if a group runs spiritmaster with full suppression, they'd get that demezz regardless, so it only benefits darkness primary, suppress/offspec SM. If the spiritmaster chooses the energy debuff for an energy debuff group, it requires a higher investment of Darkness--49 points--which means they won't have the demezz anyway. So essentially there is improvement for cold debuff groups, which already existed, and a nerf for energy debuff groups, which already didn't exist (which personally I hoped to create, having ran all caster metas in the game and looking for something new, challenging, and exotic).

Now, if there are other changes that I'm not seeing, this could alter the setup. But the change I pointed out only benefits cold groups, and doesn't help energy debuff groups. Can you see my point?

I guess I'm a little confused why the team is looking to standardize here specifically, when the conditions are not equal across the realms. I actually hope the "homogenize everything" streak is not pursued, as the game is a lot more interesting when each realm has unique flavor. I argue to allow variation where it's not overpowered. And I've seen no evidence in many years of playing that Energy, or any Midgard BSE debuff group was ever overpowered on Midgard. Can anyone say they have?

Can anyone argue this is addressing a problem?

Tue 27 Mar 2018 3:02 PM by Caballo

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Mon 26 Mar 2018 10:44 PM
I actually hope the "homogenize everything" streak is not pursued, as the game is a lot more interesting when each realm has unique flavor. I argue to allow variation where it's not overpowered. And I've seen no evidence in many years of playing that Energy, or any Midgard BSE debuff group was ever overpowered on Midgard. Can anyone say they have?

You are arguing with yourself here: why are you putting so much effort into this if youre aiming to keeping the realm's unique flavors?

Homogenizing everything is not the ultimate goal don't worry, we will keep the "flavor". (As for Midgard the "flavor" is melee and cold nukes.)
But as you already said, altering secondary debuffs wont matter much anyway because Energy/Spirit debuff groups are not very attractive in Midgard at all (which is good and an important part when it comes to "keeping the flavor" plus the common resist patterns) .

If you want to play one anyway you are very welcome. But you have to encounter slightly lower dmg, only one out of three caster classes able to nuke on this dmg type and yes, a 15s debuff so you have to work together with your SM and/or PacH even closer to make them count.

Best
Caballo

Wed 28 Mar 2018 12:59 AM by Isavyr

OK, I guess there's the answer. Standardize just "because". And Midgard is about melee and cold nukes.

Your server, your rules.

/thread

(This isn't meant to sound cheeky. But your reply shows there is no rationale at all for nerfing it, or that it was a problem. That's fine--It is your server.)