How to fix Alb Tanker Theurg suggestion threat

Started 16 Feb 2021
by Nephamael
in Suggestions
The all dominant lineup in the last 3 arena events and in frontier 8v8 is:

Cleric, Friar, Minst, Sorc, Theurg +3 tanks or 2 tanks necro or 2 tanks, cabba

- any of those options overperform extremely hard for multiple reasons -

Reason1)

Theurg gives pbt+ extreme rupt potential at 2k range, while his pets maintain rupt while pushing - the theurg outperforms the supp rm by far and both outperform the warden by huge margins.

How can we fix theurg if he is the culprit of the alb tanker opness?

My suggestion: increase player dmg vs the earthpets, so a 1.5s swing speed supporter 3shots them or a 4.2 weapon supporter 2shots them and any style with a decent growthrate 1shots them if performed with a slow swingspeed weapon (any 2h or dual wield at least)

Theurg would still be extremely strong but not without any counterplay.


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Reason2)

Sorc in a tanker is in such a remarkable position for demezz/mezz/amnesia, its impossible to control for any non tanker group.

The main reason for this is the 1850/2300 range vs healer/bard.

I don't like touching any of that so i suggest simply giving ench or warden cast amnesia. For Mid sm could have cast amnesia in suppression.


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Reason3)

Minstrel can apply almost insurmountable pressure to enemy backline in the current alb tanker, simply because there is no time to control the minst.

I think minstrel is in an overall healthy state right now - the only untouchable tool is the pet - i suggest giving the pet 10% resistrate regardless of lvl, to make castergroups able to snipe a minst pet - it will stay unkillable for tankgrps.
Minsts also profit from this, as they can easier deroot/desnare their pet with a dd.
Tue 16 Feb 2021 1:42 AM by Nephamael
A minor reason is the

Merc - as he gets to wear chain, has dirty tricks, which is a lot stronger than 3ple wield or vendo, back and sidesnare, of which sidesnare has 0.85 growthrate (compare to bm sidesnare at 0.65/0.68 and hammer at 0.69.
Mid having the strongest backstyle with 0.74 is kinda ok for the one wearing the weakest armortype - but merc with the strongest armortype should either have lower growthrate or at least bm sidesnare or backsnare or both need a growthrate buff and hammer sidesnare then too.


Also 3ple wield and veno effects could get a buff instead of working on growthrates.

For example: Vendo = root/snare immune for the duration.

3ple wield = +25% defense penetration for the duration.
Tue 16 Feb 2021 2:18 AM by thirian24
Merc has decent growth rate on side snare.. because it has a ZERO to hit bonus.
Tue 16 Feb 2021 3:06 AM by boridi
thirian24 wrote:
Tue 16 Feb 2021 2:18 AM
Merc has decent growth rate on side snare.. because it has a ZERO to hit bonus.
Conquer has zero to-hit bonus...
Tue 16 Feb 2021 7:23 AM by utaz
maybe get better at playing daoc isntead of requesting core game breaking changes?
Tue 16 Feb 2021 7:45 AM by Sepplord
utaz wrote:
Tue 16 Feb 2021 7:23 AM
maybe get better at playing daoc isntead of requesting core game breaking changes?
maybe tell them what they are doing wrong instead of just making a useless remark like that


Don't get me wrong, i agree with what you said, if their complaints are baseless. But if they are you should be able to say more than "git gud"
Tue 16 Feb 2021 9:07 AM by byron
Don't want go into details, anyone has his own ideas and tend to defend his own realm even if it is maybe overpowered in some areas. The sad thing is that in every fight on in every setup there is only two way to go ; snares for melee, debuff for casters... there is no variety in this.
About snares : is it too much giving snares styles also to other weapons other than hammer in Midgard ? It is quite sad that a whole realm has 4 weapons (considering also LA) but all the players need to use hammer styles for the mechanic above.
Tue 16 Feb 2021 4:44 PM by Nephamael
Don't get me wrong, i agree with what you said, if their complaints are baseless. But if they are you should be able to say more than "git gud"

The facts speak for themselves - if we don't act the nxt arena event gonna be 10/10 alb vs alb 8v8 this one was already 8 or 9/10 alb only.


This is a threat for 8v8 balance btw, not for zerg small or solo.
Tue 16 Feb 2021 6:14 PM by Jingo NZ
What about slightly reducing the cast time of the confusion spell, or giving it to a second class per realm.
Could even give it a tiny aoe radius to kill more than 1 pet in a stack.
Tue 16 Feb 2021 6:48 PM by Jingo NZ
Reducing theurg pet health would make the theurg objectively worse in all situations and would be a real blow to my solo theurg.
Tue 16 Feb 2021 7:01 PM by Jingo NZ
Another idea is to give some classes +dmg vs pets. Give this to a couple of hybrid classes per realm that are less popular for 8v8.
+50% dmg vs fnf pets
+30% dmg vs charmed pets
+15% dmg vs casted pets
Tue 16 Feb 2021 7:08 PM by Astaa
I have no comment on this 8v8 nonsense specifically, but it is annoying that LW has 3 positionals, 2 of which are now snares...the other being a stun and the parry reactional is basically a purge bait 2 sec stun (second in chain) but also messes up waiting for the right time in a fight to stun.
Thu 18 Feb 2021 10:54 PM by Nephamael
Reducing theurg pet health would make the theurg objectively worse in all situations and would be a real blow to my solo theurg.

What needs to be achieved for the 8v8 balance is to keep theurg viable for all comps but not op as f... for alb tankers and hybrids.

I think it would be a good idea to look at the underpowered wind pets in the same patch, give them either a higher procrate or faster movement speed and 25s or 30s duration.

I did never play much with cold pets, maybe someone else can comment on that, i always felt like 1 more earthpet simply outvalued 1 coldpet in almost any situation outside solo kite play.


I have been playing theurg in 8v8 and 1v1, 1vx myself and i love the toon a lot, the last thing i want is to remove it from comps or take away the solo potential, but i think the strongest solo theurg option should not be earth but wind/cold.


Another theoretical option for pet balance would be to rework the pet levels or dps to actually make lvl40 and 48 pets make a difference vs the 32 pets and then adding 48 cold and 40 and 48 air pets.
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