Grouping Change Suggestion - Phoenix Freeshard

Note: I speak to this from a Hib perspective but I understand this to be a problem with all 3 realms.

The problem:

Hib has become the realm of LFG: LFM animist, pbae, druid, mentalist

My suggestion:

Instead of giving a group a diversity bonus for any old class, give groups a greater bonus for less wanted classes. For example, say the Nightshade is the least wanted class in the realm, so grant groups a 30% experience bonus for having a single Nightshade in the group. Now say the Blademaster isn't as unwanted as the Nightshade, give groups a 15% bonus for having a single Blademaster in the group. Note, I don't know what the correct bonus is per class and I'm sure no one else does, that is something which would take experimentation to balance out.

Reasoning:

Groups want certain classes because those classes make gaining experience faster. Well if you make it so that having an unwanted class in the group allows the group to gain experience faster you will see groups advertising for those unwanted classes. The trick is to find the bonus values that make it worth having a Nightshade instead of another Mana Eldritch or Mana Enchanter. Right now if my group has an additional Mana Eldritch instead of having that Nightshade who was begging for the last spot in my group means the group earns experience at a far faster rate. See that Mana Eldritch has a built in experience bonus as a class because he/she can PBAE mobs down so fast that having the Eldritch is like having 6+ Nightshades in the group. That Mana Eldritch will make each pull faster and thus cause the group to earn experience much faster while the Nightshade is more or less simply a leech.

My Druid, Bard, Mentalist, Animist, Enchanter, Eldritch, Enchanter, Eldritch group is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
than your Druid, Bard, Mentalist, Animist, Enchanter, Eldritch, Enchanter, Nightshade group
even with the small bonus the Nightshade brings to the group.

Some will say, well the Nightshade can pull for the group or be the group jester. The problem is that the Eldritch can actually pull better than the Nightshade using a low level DD spell or debuff spell. The Nightshade simply provides nothing to the group that the Eldritch cannot match and beat because of PBAE. Some would argue that the Nightshade can help save a group in a situation where a pull goes bad. That is true but once the group gets into a grove the group can pull for hours without a single bad pull. The simple fact is that people use certain group setups BECAUSE those setups produce more experience for each and every member of the group.

So lets change that reality. I LOVE <3 <3 <3 <3 the group diversity bonus system. It is a wonderful idea but I think you could improve on it. I encourage you to make tweaks to it in an effort to change the nature of what the game has become, which is an Animist/Druid/Ment/PBAE world. I would love to see groups spamming something along the lines of "/lfg LFM absolutely MUST have nightshade, awesome XP please please please join our group!" in the future.

Thank you for your consideration.

Mon 28 Jan 2019 8:41 PM by Quik

The only issues I have with giving a NS or Ranger a big xp bonus to get them grouped...it seems kind of counter intuitive when those are the same classes that won't ever group again after reaching max lvl...

I agree they need help but personally I think its a bit unfair to help a class that only want to use the group to reach max lvl and then ditch them to solo RvR.

Tue 29 Jan 2019 2:23 AM by Moid

Quik wrote: The only issues I have with giving a NS or Ranger a big xp bonus to get them grouped...it seems kind of counter intuitive when those are the same classes that won't ever group again after reaching max lvl...

I agree they need help but personally I think its a bit unfair to help a class that only want to use the group to reach max lvl and then ditch them to solo RvR.

I don't know of anyone who only rolled a stealthier and played said stealthier exclusively for the life of their DAoC addiction. I have not yet rolled a stealthier here but I have rolled a Blademaster and have soloed or duoed with him throughout his 29 levels. Here's the thing, I like to group because it is far more entertaining than killing mobs solo or even duo. I honestly don't believe that the change I suggested would penalize non-stealthers because from my personal experience (I began playing DAoC at launch) I've never known anyone who didn't need to farm for crafting or to pay for the latest/greatest gear post level 50. To this day on the live DAoC there are high realm rank stealthers running around in the realm PvEing because something was added to the game and now they have to redo their template.

It almost seems as though you feel it is fitting that stealthers should have to solo and find it nauseating to try to get into a group because they will only solo in RvR. I don't see the logic in that, as any person who plays any class can make the decision to solo in RvR. I see many tanks soloing in RvR and casters, in fact one of my very first encounters in RvR just after release was with a solo Alb Sorc (we were in our 30's and the Sorc was near 50). I was with a group in Mt. Collory and the Sorc mezzed the entire group and nuked us down one by one. So by your logic it's should Sorc be punished as well? I soloed with my Druid in RvR for a long time just after release once he hit 50 (nurture/nature spec). So should Druid's be punished too?

Why would you punish an entire class for behavior that is due to the person playing the class. Some people are greedy and shellfish and it's entirely possible that more people who choose to play stealthers are greedy and selfish but that doesn't mean ALL people who play stealthers are greedy and selfish and it also doesn't mean that people who play other-than-stealthers are selfless. It seems you have associated a DAoC class with a human behavior.

I don't get that.

Tue 29 Jan 2019 2:39 AM by Quik

So apparently you missed where I said "I agree they need help" because you act like I simply said they need dumped on. Please don't put words in my mouth or try to change what I wrote. Go back and read again if you have issues and maybe a little slower...

Now as to soloing, yes, a lot of classes will solo. All types will solo at times, but a VAST majority will end up grouped when going out and helping each other out as a group. Stealthers for the most part, not all but for the most part, tend to hit 50 (or whatever lvl they are shooting for for a BG) and then they will almost exclusively solo although stealthier groups aren't uncommon.

My point is, myself personally, I will help out the classes that group in RvR more as that helps a lot more people. I don't go out of my way to ignore stealthers, in fact when I play my Ani I try to get ONLY NS/Rangers who want to pull for me so I can help them out more since I am mainly soloing. When forming a group though yes, I tend to focus on group oriented classes since it is the group oriented class that will be helping me past 50 the most.

If you want to call this dumping on NS's well, your going to do it anyway so no reason to try to argue.

I see in Hib ALL THE TIME NS's or rangers that will start groups themselves and put them together, and I have joined some of those at times. The point is, form your own group if you can't find one, but lets not give special bonuses to 1-2 classes that are solo oriented post 50 because before 50 they suddenly want a piece of the pie they don't want to share after 50.

Tue 29 Jan 2019 2:46 AM by Frieza

I may be wrong, but i thought this was already in?

If not, i think keep it to the exp bonus per new member, that actually increases the cap. Otherwise youll punish one NS and reward another, which by the sounds of it, isnt what you want.

If you can run Anix2, druid and ment and thats it, then should be able to fill with x NS's to help the realm out imo

Tue 29 Jan 2019 5:44 AM by rubaduck

Here's the problem, because you went straight to the classes of Nightshade and Ranger:

These classes are some of the most efficient killers in the realm. They have the possibility to either one shot-combo or shootem down from a safe distance. And this might not even be are a reality, but the point is that sneaks are there for that purpose. What do you think will happen if the player base could xp up sneaks easier?

They are the hardest classes to xp, because they are some of the most efficient pvp classes, they are meant to be hard to cull the population for them.

Tue 29 Jan 2019 7:25 AM by faliv

Drui, menta, healbot, ani, pbae, pbae, free, free

So even with the ani-pbae group you have at least 2 free slots for any class. Beside that, most random petpull-groups in hib are straight from hell and not one bit faster then any other random group composition with bard+druid. At least until level 40. Most times i am even faster when leveling my druid solo then joining these groups. So it is only a matter of attitude, best is to build your groups by your own, problem solved.

Tue 29 Jan 2019 9:08 AM by Sepplord

i am still pretty sure that with any group, running around farming tasks would be FAR faster than any masspulling, but it requires knowledge and people to not afk all the time...

especially with the recent boni introduced, there are many options to bomb-farming

The problem is: bombfarming is easily picked up by people, while using the alternative EXP-routes takes ALOT of ingame knowledge.

Even me, half versed in DAOC and pretty up2date regarding Phoenix-EXP-mechanics have almost no idea where to go to get the most out of my time.
I got lucky yesterday, with 3different Mobtypes close by that all had huge low-farmed-boni active, but that is not the usual experience. I have also spent an hour wandering around looking for a mobtype without luck.

Tue 29 Jan 2019 11:56 PM by Moid

I see the stealther hate is still strong with some players. I suppose those people who hate stealthers so much are pleased to have tanks and other “non-bomb” group type classes punished as well. That’s the type of rabid irrational reaction which causes MMO’s to be less successful.

Well at least I tried I suppose.

I’ll do my best to have fun soloing my Blademaster to 50. Darn, I sure wish there was a good reason to have him in some of these PBAE groups who dominate the LFG channel. Lol.