General Suggestions - Phoenix Freeshard

I'd like to believe most of these suggestions are already in the pipeline but I will list everything we have been waiting for and talking about regardless:

1) Side stun for sb/zerk at least but preferably all dw lines

2) Archers stealth detection to be greater then assassins (as it's suppose to be)

3) Hastener speed pot

4) Recharger's in more convenient locations

5) /houseloc (house number) to see the owner and town of that house number

6) A way of seeing if a player is worth rps or not - we don't want to kill someone if they are not worth and they don't want to die (needlessly)

7) All disease spells/poisons capped at 60s duration

8) Pet's being fixed to stop attacking when stealthed like the bd pets were fixed (enchanter companion pet for example is unaffected by stealth, will keep chasing and regaining los to nuke stealthed targets regardless of how many times you restealth)

9) Unbreakable snare from necros/companion pet to be a normal snare that breaks when damaged

10) Quit to Desktop bug being fixed (live daoc recently identified and hotfixed this game breaking issue)

If I have missed anything out, please feel free to add.

Mon 1 Apr 2019 12:39 PM by dudis

Not gonna add anything here, but...

1) Side stun for sb/zerk at least but preferably all dw lines
Sure, might make them more on par

2) Archers stealth detection to be greater then assassins (as it's suppose to be)
No comment, don't play a stealther here

3) Hastener speed pot
Would be convenient sometimes but doesnt feel right.

4) Recharger's in more convenient locations
Sure.

5) /houseloc (house number) to see the owner and town of that house number
Should show zone in the item listing, next to house number. Think it's like that one live?

6) A way of seeing if a player is worth rps or not - we don't want to kill someone if they are not worth and they don't want to die (needlessly)
Disagree. Dont want people to avoid fighting eachother.

7) All disease spells/poisons capped at 60s duration
Agreed, add Nearsight to that list too.

8) Pet's being fixed to stop attacking when stealthed like the bd pets were fixed (enchanter companion pet for example is unaffected by stealth, will keep chasing and regaining los to nuke stealthed targets regardless of how many times you restealth)
Also add a second Line of sight and range check on pet-spells.

9) Unbreakable snare from necros/companion pet to be a normal snare that breaks when damaged
Disagree, cant nerf everything thats strong/annoying

10) Quit to Desktop bug being fixed (live daoc recently identified and hotfixed this game breaking issue)
Not a big deal for me but yes, I sometimes do miss this command.

Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:55 PM by chryso

I think we need fewer stuns, not more.

Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:58 PM by Numatic

Callofduty wrote: ↑
Sun 31 Mar 2019 10:16 PM
I'd like to believe most of these suggestions are already in the pipeline but I will list everything we have been waiting for and talking about regardless:

1) Side stun for sb/zerk at least but preferably all dw lines

2) Archers stealth detection to be greater then assassins (as it's suppose to be)

3) Hastener speed pot

4) Recharger's in more convenient locations

5) /houseloc (house number) to see the owner and town of that house number

6) A way of seeing if a player is worth rps or not - we don't want to kill someone if they are not worth and they don't want to die (needlessly)

7) All disease spells/poisons capped at 60s duration

8) Pet's being fixed to stop attacking when stealthed like the bd pets were fixed (enchanter companion pet for example is unaffected by stealth, will keep chasing and regaining los to nuke stealthed targets regardless of how many times you restealth)

9) Unbreakable snare from necros/companion pet to be a normal snare that breaks when damaged

10) Quit to Desktop bug being fixed (live daoc recently identified and hotfixed this game breaking issue)

If I have missed anything out, please feel free to add.

2. What? I've played DaoC for years, and Archers besides Truesight never had better stealth detection than assasins. Granted I stopped playing at ToA, but before that, it was never the case. And mythic made it quite clear assasins were always meant to have an advantage in that regard. So no, it's not "supposed to be". If you can find a source saying otherwise I'd like to see it.

Mon 1 Apr 2019 7:19 PM by Quik

Numatic wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Apr 2019 5:58 PM
2. What? I've played DaoC for years, and Archers besides Truesight never had better stealth detection than assasins. Granted I stopped playing at ToA, but before that, it was never the case. And mythic made it quite clear assasins were always meant to have an advantage in that regard. So no, it's not "supposed to be". If you can find a source saying otherwise I'd like to see it.

Yeah this statement confused me as well.

Since when were archers ever supposed to see assassins first?

Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:59 AM by Callofduty

For years archers have had better stealth detection then assassins, if one excels in melee and one in ranged, its logical. The extra detect -might- let you get 1 shot off instead of 0.

Just because something started out one way doesn't mean it's perfect and unquestionable. There's a reason why it was changed a long time ago and has stayed that way since.

This isn't a QQ biased suggestion, it's just facts. Any stealther with half a brain should still beat an archer in melee even if they took a crit shot first (which would only happen if you knew a sin was inc to you and had the shot prepared).

It's clear you both play assassins, so you should know you will still be the favourite in the fight.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 1:02 AM by Callofduty

chryso wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Apr 2019 1:55 PM
I think we need fewer stuns, not more.

The stuns that are in the game atm aren't going away. But the fact that sbs and zerks cannot stun on demand whilst their counterparts can is a huge handicap.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:24 AM by Quik

Callofduty wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:59 AM
For years archers have had better stealth detection then assassins, if one excels in melee and one in ranged, its logical. The extra detect -might- let you get 1 shot off instead of 0.

Just because something started out one way doesn't mean it's perfect and unquestionable. There's a reason why it was changed a long time ago and has stayed that way since.

This isn't a QQ biased suggestion, it's just facts. Any stealther with half a brain should still beat an archer in melee even if they took a crit shot first (which would only happen if you knew a sin was inc to you and had the shot prepared).

It's clear you both play assassins, so you should know you will still be the favourite in the fight.

What you might be missing is that Pheonix is based loosely on 1.65 patch which is kind of a classic era.

Assassins absolutely had better detection at THAT time. How it was changed I don't know as I didn't play on live after ToA.

If it is different on live now it doesn't matter since the current ruleset isn't based on current live.

I played a NS during classic DAoC and I found the archer about 80% of the time before he found me.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:53 PM by Amp_Phetamine

#3 and #6 are the only two I disagree with. Agree with everything else.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:03 PM by cere2

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:24 AM
Callofduty wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:59 AM
For years archers have had better stealth detection then assassins, if one excels in melee and one in ranged, its logical. The extra detect -might- let you get 1 shot off instead of 0.

Just because something started out one way doesn't mean it's perfect and unquestionable. There's a reason why it was changed a long time ago and has stayed that way since.

This isn't a QQ biased suggestion, it's just facts. Any stealther with half a brain should still beat an archer in melee even if they took a crit shot first (which would only happen if you knew a sin was inc to you and had the shot prepared).

It's clear you both play assassins, so you should know you will still be the favourite in the fight.

What you might be missing is that Pheonix is based loosely on 1.65 patch which is kind of a classic era.

Assassins absolutely had better detection at THAT time. How it was changed I don't know as I didn't play on live after ToA.

If it is different on live now it doesn't matter since the current ruleset isn't based on current live.

I played a NS during classic DAoC and I found the archer about 80% of the time before he found me.

If that's the case and we are basing this on 1.65....I'll take dodger, avoid pain, ignore pain, bladedance, oh and yeah! truesight!
Oh yeah, give me camo back too...
How many other nerfs do archers need to suffer until they are just removed from character selection...
I would be happy with "same" detection range.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:14 PM by Kohi

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:24 AM
What you might be missing is that Pheonix is based loosely on 1.65 patch which is kind of a classic era.

Assassins absolutely had better detection at THAT time. How it was changed I don't know as I didn't play on live after ToA.

If it is different on live now it doesn't matter since the current ruleset isn't based on current live.

I played a NS during classic DAoC and I found the archer about 80% of the time before he found me.

This. Same for me, had ns and sb on live, but also a ranger, and played till laby/clustering : assassin always had better stealth as bowman (which was sometimes a pain for my ranger, but seems logic). I was kinda stunned to read OP saying inverse, but might have changed since i left, idk.

As for the suggestions,
1) Tempted to say yes, but...
2) nope
3) nope
4) yes
5) yeah, hz need some fixes regarding finding seller/house (maps ?)
6) nope, surely not
7) hhhhm, difficult that one
8) tbh, i think it shouldnt have been fixed considering the vanish 'issue' here, but ok i get it... yes, all pet classes should be on the same page regarding this.
9) Tricky also that one, i'll pass
10) yes

Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:04 PM by Quik

cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:03 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:24 AM
Callofduty wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 12:59 AM
For years archers have had better stealth detection then assassins, if one excels in melee and one in ranged, its logical. The extra detect -might- let you get 1 shot off instead of 0.

Just because something started out one way doesn't mean it's perfect and unquestionable. There's a reason why it was changed a long time ago and has stayed that way since.

This isn't a QQ biased suggestion, it's just facts. Any stealther with half a brain should still beat an archer in melee even if they took a crit shot first (which would only happen if you knew a sin was inc to you and had the shot prepared).

It's clear you both play assassins, so you should know you will still be the favourite in the fight.

What you might be missing is that Pheonix is based loosely on 1.65 patch which is kind of a classic era.

Assassins absolutely had better detection at THAT time. How it was changed I don't know as I didn't play on live after ToA.

If it is different on live now it doesn't matter since the current ruleset isn't based on current live.

I played a NS during classic DAoC and I found the archer about 80% of the time before he found me.

If that's the case and we are basing this on 1.65....I'll take dodger, avoid pain, ignore pain, bladedance, oh and yeah! truesight!
Oh yeah, give me camo back too...
How many other nerfs do archers need to suffer until they are just removed from character selection...
I would be happy with "same" detection range.

I'm guessing where you missed where I said LOOSELY? They have already said they made changes to pretty much all those skills you mentioned because they felt they broke the game...

In the 1.65 era though assassins ALWAYS had longer detection range except in some cases dealing with movement and such. Honestly, assassins should have better detection in my opinion as that is their specialty and I have no issues with it.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:13 PM by cere2

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:04 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 4:03 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 2:24 AM
What you might be missing is that Pheonix is based loosely on 1.65 patch which is kind of a classic era.

Assassins absolutely had better detection at THAT time. How it was changed I don't know as I didn't play on live after ToA.

If it is different on live now it doesn't matter since the current ruleset isn't based on current live.

I played a NS during classic DAoC and I found the archer about 80% of the time before he found me.

If that's the case and we are basing this on 1.65....I'll take dodger, avoid pain, ignore pain, bladedance, oh and yeah! truesight!
Oh yeah, give me camo back too...
How many other nerfs do archers need to suffer until they are just removed from character selection...
I would be happy with "same" detection range.

I'm guessing where you missed where I said LOOSELY? They have already said they made changes to pretty much all those skills you mentioned because they felt they broke the game...

In the 1.65 era though assassins ALWAYS had longer detection range except in some cases dealing with movement and such. Honestly, assassins should have better detection in my opinion as that is their specialty and I have no issues with it.

Assassin's did not always have longer detection range. MOS was an RA. Most archers chose to rank that to max so assassin's didn't have that advantage of a free PA like they do now. Phoenix decided to give it free to all, and eliminate it giving a detection range...now just gives movement speed...for some reason and apparently forgot it means assassins now get a free PA 70-80% of the time they see an archer in stealth.

"Honestly, assassins should have better detection in my opinion as that is their specialty and I have no issues with it."

At least you said in my opinion.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:33 PM by Kohi

cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:13 PM
[...]
Assassin's did not always have longer detection range. MOS was an RA. Most archers chose to rank that to max so assassin's didn't have that advantage of a free PA like they do now. Phoenix decided to give it free to all, and eliminate it giving a detection range...now just gives movement speed...for some reason and apparently forgot it means assassins now get a free PA 70-80% of the time they see an archer in stealth.
[...]

Some truth here. As rangers we had no other way as to 'boost' as high as we could stealth (both career as ra, while for sure between bow and melee, even with neglecting pf and using a bb, u never had enough points ^^) to have better cards vs other sneaks. But even with similar rr and spec in stealth, i can perfectly remember that my ns pals always kept invisible to me while themselves could see me from a distance. One thing is sure, and has already been said several times here (incl. by me), the free MoS compaired with live disturbs a lot of things. Anyway, archers were basically always detected first from ns/infi/sb then.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:32 PM by cere2

Kohi wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:33 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Apr 2019 5:13 PM
[...]
Assassin's did not always have longer detection range. MOS was an RA. Most archers chose to rank that to max so assassin's didn't have that advantage of a free PA like they do now. Phoenix decided to give it free to all, and eliminate it giving a detection range...now just gives movement speed...for some reason and apparently forgot it means assassins now get a free PA 70-80% of the time they see an archer in stealth.
[...]

Some truth here. As rangers we had no other way as to 'boost' as high as we could stealth (both career as ra, while for sure between bow and melee, even with neglecting pf and using a bb, u never had enough points ^^) to have better cards vs other sneaks. But even with similar rr and spec in stealth, i can perfectly remember that my ns pals always kept invisible to me while themselves could see me from a distance. One thing is sure, and has already been said several times here (incl. by me), the free MoS compaired with live disturbs a lot of things. Anyway, archers were basically always detected first from ns/infi/sb then.

I don't recall ever not being able to avoid a PA when both me (archer) and assassin were in stealth. Perhaps they did see me first? But not early enough to set up for a PA. The problem is the devs here removed all abilities for archers to have a chance to see beyond 150 range, which is basically in your face range....I don't know what possible reason they had for this but it creates something entirely new on this server, different from "any" other time on daoc. Sin's are landing PA's on archers in stealth on a regular basis. When they took away camo, truesight, and changed how MOS works completely. They changed the dynamics of the stealth game to something never before seen. And it sucks in a major way for archers. Archers have been gutted and must either spec full on melee, or group...to win vs other stealth classes.
Thus, the reason my Ranger is shelved. Here's to hoping they do something to bring it back.

Tue 2 Apr 2019 6:36 PM by lourock

How they justified archers having the same stealth detection as Minstrels is beyond me. I don’t know how this made it past beta.