Feathers/money for RvR - Phoenix Freeshard

I would like to see some sort of feather implementation for pvp. It doesnt need to be a lot, and should be less then pve farm. Would just like to be able to sustain money via RvR. Thoughts?

Fri 17 Aug 2018 2:04 AM by Quik

Feathers should be PvE to encourage PvE activity...RP's are from RvR.

Each gives encouragement to go to those respective areas.

Fri 17 Aug 2018 2:19 AM by Rabbitstew

I think feathers can already be gained from RvR already via keep captures, as the keep lords drop them when killed.

Do you mean you wish to have feathers drop from other RvR activities as well?

Fri 17 Aug 2018 2:38 AM by Drunkstains

Yeah from kills, or at least coin.

Cant stand PvE would just like to be able to sustain cash by RvRing.

I still think PvE should pull in more cash, but would hope we could spend more time what this game is built for and go murder balling more often in the frontier.

Fri 17 Aug 2018 4:01 AM by Magesty

I hate being low RR. Would much rather start at RR5. Why should I have to play without Purge or Det when it is much more fun to have it?

I don't want to have to make a template. That is boring. Numbers and stats are for roleplaying nerds. Why not have trainer give template at 50?

I can't stand RvR. Why should I have to be be penalized when the RvR bonuses don't favor my realm?

I only PvE. It is the reason for the game. I mean look at all the expansions? They are 99% PvE content. Why can't I get RPs and BPs from PvE encounters?

Fri 17 Aug 2018 5:09 AM by

Uthred

You get feathers (10 per keeplevel) from every keeplord.

Coins already drop in rvr.

Fri 17 Aug 2018 9:23 AM by heardstheword

I like how they're handling feathers at the moment. They're easy enough to get

Magesty wrote: ↑
Fri 17 Aug 2018 4:01 AM
I hate being low RR. Would much rather start at RR5. Why should I have to play without Purge or Det when it is much more fun to have it?

I don't want to have to make a template. That is boring. Numbers and stats are for roleplaying nerds. Why not have trainer give template at 50?

I can't stand RvR. Why should I have to be be penalized when the RvR bonuses don't favor my realm?

I only PvE. It is the reason for the game. I mean look at all the expansions? They are 99% PvE content. Why can't I get RPs and BPs from PvE encounters?

Careful, the people here will take you seriously without the /s

Fri 17 Aug 2018 5:53 PM by rubaduck

If feathers dropped on player kills, people would have no incentive to pve in the first place.

For example, you find rogs to complete your basic template in a few hours. You're ready to go pvp after you SC is done, and you're never seen in pve ever again, sounds good yes? No, it's not. If I could do that, I wouldn't join any pve related events or raids ever, no matter how little feathers I gained on pvp kills I would rather spend x amount of time farming players then spending time on 3-4 raids to get the same amount, even if it took me weeks. And I'm not alone thinking like that, as most people confirm on the forum: they hate PvE.

The problem with this conondrum, is that you can't implement one system and not let it affect the other. But separating PVE from PVP, and give benefit to PVP'ers (realm points lead to realm ranks which leads to realm abilities) and PVE'ers (raid currency lead to better gear) will give incentive to people on both ends (hardcore pvp'ers and hardcore pve'ers) to help fund the whole economy of the game. There will be a supply / demand, and everyone can contribute if they want. If you don't want to contribute to PvE content, you have the possibility to buy the loot on CM's for money you gain in PVP and so forth. Or you know.. just raid a couple of hours and be done with it on your own end.

Fri 17 Aug 2018 9:32 PM by Frigzy

Uthred wrote: ↑
Fri 17 Aug 2018 5:09 AM
You get feathers (10 per keeplevel) from every keeplord.

Coins already drop in rvr.

I think the coindrops are fine for group RvR, but when you are soloing, keeping up charges and pots becomes very costly.

First off, you need to be ready at all times, which means you are keeping your charges and pots up 95% of the time in which you are not actually fighting anyone.

Secondly, as a solo, killing or being killed is a lot more cost intensive than in a group. Either your efforts (not only pots and charges, also TIME!) are in vain, OR they were worth it when you come out as the winner. However, even then you might be looking at 10-15 minutes before actually finding a worthy opponent.

In general, based on my solo experience so far, I'd say that as it stands now, solo RvR is a cash drain. This is undesirable. Being forced to kill mobs every other day simply to sustain your RvR capacity is not a sustainable setting.

Again, this isn't an issue in group RvR since pot and charge use is considerably less.

Fri 17 Aug 2018 11:56 PM by Magesty

How is this for a solution: Remove stat buff and regen potions from the game.

Potions were originally designed in an effort to allow players to feel like they could compete without a buffbot. Guess what? There are no bots here. So now we are stuck with a tedious system that was essentially a throw in to try to hang on to subscribers that weren’t willing to/couldn’t maintain a bot account as a core RvR mechanic. Even very casual players at this point know that you have to use potions to compete. Ignoring the effect they have on class balance, why have a system in the game that is anti-fun and redundant? Is it a method of deflating gold value? Is the Alchemists’ Union exerting pressure on the devs? Are people so tied to the “Uthgard Classic” setting that they can’t imagine life without buff potions? It’s a mystery to me how potions weren’t immediately done away with by any server disallowing bots.

So here we are. 2018. Botless but still constrained by buffs.

Wed 22 Aug 2018 9:39 AM by schreon

If buff pots are removed from the game, buffs should be slightly nerfed in general. A fully buffed character is so much stronger than an unbuffed one or one only with basebuffs ... Buff pots make certain classes redundant, yes, but they also enable RvR with suboptimal class setups. A group without spec buff character is so much weaker if there are no pots/charges, people won't run until they got a druid/cleric/shaman. And if people dont run, the server will stagnate.

IMHO there are 2 viable options:

a) keep pots/charges but rebalance classes who indirectly get weaker due to buffs

or

b) remove pots/charges but also nerf base and spec buffs a little bit, so running without or with few buff classes is viable. An alternative to nerfing buffs would be to reduce the concentration pool.

In case of nerfed buffs, PvE mobs would have to be weakened accordingly, so xp progress speed remains the same.

Fri 24 Aug 2018 2:08 PM by Magesty

schreon wrote: ↑
Wed 22 Aug 2018 9:39 AM
If buff pots are removed from the game, buffs should be slightly nerfed in general. A fully buffed character is so much stronger than an unbuffed one or one only with basebuffs ... Buff pots make certain classes redundant, yes, but they also enable RvR with suboptimal class setups. A group without spec buff character is so much weaker if there are no pots/charges, people won't run until they got a druid/cleric/shaman. And if people dont run, the server will stagnate.

IMHO there are 2 viable options:

a) keep pots/charges but rebalance classes who indirectly get weaker due to buffs

or

b) remove pots/charges but also nerf base and spec buffs a little bit, so running without or with few buff classes is viable. An alternative to nerfing buffs would be to reduce the concentration pool.

In case of nerfed buffs, PvE mobs would have to be weakened accordingly, so xp progress speed remains the same.

I tend towards over-optimism, but my hope is that conditions on this server will render the "non-optimal/stagnate" argument a non factor. It seems like the devs are trying to facilitate a healthy RvR environment by having a /rw map and fairly heavy keep take/defense rewards. Ideally this will kill off the 8man mentality and keep people from quivering at PKs until they get an optimal setup (as we know, pugs just go die to guild groups anyways) and encourage them to go seek out the large-scale action regardless of group setup because they know they can have fun and earn RPs in that area.

The 8man mentality is a huge problem for a DAoC server. It creates an exclusive environment where only certain classes are used and encourages players to stagnate rather than participate. And now here we are, debating the existence of a repetitively torturous mechanic because it allows people to feel like they are somehow competing with sub-optimal setups in an environment where that simply isn't possible.

A server that is hinging on 8man deathmatch-style gameplay as the main driver in RvR is going to slowly see casual players leave and all that will remain are RR8+ guild groups and stealthers. PuGs cannot compete in the long run and all that dying and standing around isn't going to result in long term Phoenix careers.

So, in short, I hope sub-optimal situations won't be relevant here because this server will have a healthier core of macro-RvR and zerglings where any group setup/class can participate and succeed to some extent. If this doesn't happen the server is going to turn into what every other OF server eventually does and potions will only be used by stealthers anyways.

Fri 24 Aug 2018 2:34 PM by Weezull

I think a better suggestion would be to massively increase the rate that they drop at certain camps in frontier zones that everybody knows about. It will make these places hotly contested by all three realms, and it would be a good place to go looking when you're looking for a fight. Getting farmers out of their safe zones and out into the frontiers should be encouraged whenever possible.

Sun 26 Aug 2018 6:50 PM by kpax

I think daoc had never issues of active PvM. I think the idea of dropping feather in RvR by killing enemy is good. U can make the drops small so that it is a nice attraction but still makes you willing to do PvM too.

Mon 27 Aug 2018 7:25 AM by Falken

feathers from keeps needs to be buffed, nobody says "man we need feathers we should go take keeps". I am fine with money farming mobs, any money from RvR is kinda nice. I think I get like 24g for a solo kill of a level 50 though, not exactly impressive considering cost of all that goes into soloing optimally (10g per charge + buff pot + endo pot + assuming you don't get squished by smallman/fg... risk/=reward unless stealther).