Feathers for level 50 solo kills?

Pre-amble, I don't actually care if people zerg, I zerg a lot on various toons!

Zergers get feathers through, well, zerging...keeps and towers. Should there be a feather reward for getting a solo kill vs a level 50 opponent?

GvG get their bonus RPs win or lose...

Tue 2 Feb 2021 9:25 PM by Lollie

Surely the reward you get is the full amount of rps for the kill?
GvG shouldnt get any bonus rps for dying imo but thats for a different thread.

Wed 3 Feb 2021 4:18 PM by Magesty

Part of the purpose of rewarding feathers for keep taking/participation is to encourage that style of play specifically. Zergs are good for the server's overall health and it is important to keep them motivated. I do a lot of soloing, but I'm not going to pretend like my style of play is really contributing to a healthy server in the same way a zergling's playstyle does. Plus, it is nice to have extra incentive to join a keep/tower siege if it is happening in a convenient location. I never would if it weren't for the feathers/claws/tasks.

There are a number of other issues with additional rewards for solo kills. Firstly, the majority of solo feathers would be going to one class archetype which over performs and is consistently able to achieve the highest solo kill counts. Also, this will make any sort of leeching/adding on solo fights that much more contentious which isn't something anyone needs.

GvG bonuses are another issue entirely.

Wed 3 Feb 2021 4:42 PM by DJ2000

I mostly agree with what Magesty said.

What i don't understand is why everyone keeps on asking for free ####.

"They get rps/claws/feathers for hitting wood..." well then go and hit wood yourself.
Same with all the pugs/premade event nonsense.
That is not playstyle you want to do? Well, then it is also not a reward you will get.

Does everyone really feel so much under supported in their playstyle/view, or treated unfairly?

Yes, he included the LVL50 to make sure it's a reward for some actual fight.(....at the Relic Docks mostly, that's what it would going to result to) and not some XP-LowLvl-toons in the FZ.

Too much "what about"-ism for my taste lately all around.

Thu 4 Feb 2021 8:26 AM by Sepplord

DJ2000 wrote: ↑
Wed 3 Feb 2021 4:42 PM
Does everyone really feel so much under supported in their playstyle/view

Everyone outside Zerg and 8vs8 probably does
Feeling under supported as a solo- or smallmen-player is probably justified and imo not unreasonable.

If those playstyles should get more attention, or if shifting development time towards smallmen&soloplay would benefit the server MORE than putting that effort into Zerg&GvG gameplay? That is a different question, that i am not fully convinced, despite being a smallmen player myself.

That's also why i left out the "unfairly" part in aboves quote. Is it "unfair" that GvG gets RPS for losing a fairfight but a smallman doesn't? Yes, clearly.
Is it unfair that the development and monitoring work to prevent abuse isn't put in for smallmen but is for fullgroups? Not so clear, maybe not, as the cost/benefit ratio is different

Thu 4 Feb 2021 11:25 AM by Blitze

Let solos join the /fairfight

Then if they lose 1v8 to a 8man they get RPs?

Thu 4 Feb 2021 11:35 AM by Sepplord

Blitze wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Feb 2021 11:25 AM
Let solos join the /fairfight

Then if they lose 1v8 to a 8man they get RPs?

not sure if troll or serious....but if that is a serious question, then No...that isn't what i was hinting at.
The /Fairfight command already only shows you groups that are similar groupsize, aka groups that you can have a fair fight against. A 4men for example sees 3man- 4man- and 5man-groups.
Thinking about having a similar reward-system for groups that do fair fights on the fairfight list, compared to 8men that do fights on the GvG-list isn't some crazy idea.
Having Solos join the GvG list, and getting rewards for getting steamrolled by fullgroups would be (but noone has suggested that)

Thu 4 Feb 2021 3:28 PM by joshisanonymous

Blitze wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Feb 2021 11:25 AM
Let solos join the /fairfight

Then if they lose 1v8 to a 8man they get RPs?

Haha, I'm guessing this was tongue-in-cheek, but I think this might be the most reasonable method of incentivizing soloing that I've ever heard. The only problem would be solos purposely suiciding on groups and zergs over and over again.

Thu 4 Feb 2021 5:39 PM by DJ2000

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Feb 2021 8:26 AM
Everyone outside Zerg and 8vs8 probably does
... Is it "unfair" that GvG gets RPS for losing a fairfight but a smallman doesn't? Yes, clearly.

This point has to be elaborated more on your part.

As to which playstyle is more important/healthy to the server ... yeah, better not open up that "can of worms", ### will derail fast.

Is the problem that the command is called "fairfight"? Maybe the devs can rename it to "undisturbed", or maybe just call it "lemon".
The fact it is called "fairfight" is due solely for curtsy reasons. Not because it is considered a "fair fight". There is actually no fair fight.
What it actually stands for is: This fight was free of any external impacts.

The RP portion of this command is to promote (new) Grps to (join this playstyle and) join the GvG-List.
New rolled Toons/new players/new Setup usually doesn't start at RR5+. In fact, they used to start at around rr3-5 (which is now a bit higher thanks to the pvp event).

Let me give you an example:
Imagine a RR3-5 Grp has to fight a RR8+ Grp.
1 fight will be a loss obviously. So will the following ones as well. Will it ever hit a breakpoint where the lower RR Grp will be able to overcome the highRR one? No.
The more they fight, the worse it gets. This is an accelerated circle that keeps getting worse, as the higher-RR Grp also gets all the RPs. So while the higher RR gets stronger each win, the lower one does not, nor will it ever be. How is any new Grp ever going to "grind" their way through this? They never will. Noe one ever would do that. This is not just an uphill Battle; it's like free-falling into a bottomless Pit.
And don't bother trying to mention stuff like skills/playing good/bad or whatever crap that can overcome the odds. In General play, that is what happens, and it did happen in the past.
Here comes the "fairfight" command. Thanks to this, the RR-gap can be closed even when losing every fight, as the losing Team can gains RP/RR as well.
So in time they will catch up to the higherRR ones. And in time they will also be RR8+ and are more than just competitive, as they had enough incentives/sustain to push through the loses and could focus on improving their actual play (positioning/pushing/command/calls/etc.etc.etc.), instead of being demoralized by the constant loses.
Again, the command is to promote the GvG playstyle. To get people to enjoy the 8v8 GvG aspect without the harsh(/or lessened) drawbacks.

So why is this not incentivized for Solo, Duo or smallman? Same reason why the game can't be "balanced" around those play styles.
The smallest number you can balance anything in DaoC is determined by the Grp size. The max Grp size is 8. So that's what you balance the game around.
If the Max. Grp size would have been 4, then thats the number you balance the game around.
Bus as long as the number is Grp size is 8, you can not balance or cater too much around lesser numbers because you can't stop players from running with higher Grpsize and screw your "plan for solo/duo/small" with their numbers.
You run as 4 and get hit by 7.
You run as 3 and get hit by 7.
You run as 2 and gt hit by 7.
Every time its smallman vs smallman, as 7 is not considered a full grp.
But, "oh wait" you say, "The Small-Teleporter are for 4 max and the devs can force numbers with rules and such".
You cannot "balance" anything for solo/duo/small. That is nothing but wishful thinking. Every action you take will impact 8man, just like it did f.e.with the Bard (yes, iam talking about the root)

Unlike GvG, the complaints around "Zergers" are completely pointless. There is no restriction at all to any other playstyle, be it solo/duo/small/8 or whatever, to gain the very same benefits "those" do.
Those benefits are received for "doing something" and not given out for free because they simply logged in or joined a BG; yet you demand compensation for your playstyle without taking a part in any of these acts as they have to do? That's like asking for free stuff. And that is what i don't like.

"What about" Zerg,
"What about" 8man,
"What about" this and that, over and over again.

Thu 4 Feb 2021 5:51 PM by ExcretusMaximus

DJ2000 wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Feb 2021 5:39 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Feb 2021 8:26 AM
Everyone outside Zerg and 8vs8 probably does
... Is it "unfair" that GvG gets RPS for losing a fairfight but a smallman doesn't? Yes, clearly.
This point has to be elaborated more on your part.

What is there to elaborate on? The 8man crowd is going to run 8man regardless of the situation, why are they getting rewarded for it? And better yet, why are the losers getting rewarded for losing? It's a command that shows a very large bias toward the 8man crowd, it's bad for the server (just look at the time and effort they've put into "balancing" and policing it, and the drama it has caused), and the developers are worse off for showing that bias.

Thu 4 Feb 2021 7:40 PM by DJ2000

1. This is not about smallman, it's about "Feathers for level 50 solo kills". If you want to go off rails i won't accompany you there. Open up a new Topic in the "Ask the Team" section.

2. Unlike Sepplord who puts time, effort and thoughts behind his posts, you are literally just shouting. Open up a new Topic in the "Ask the Team" section and demand an answer for this "wrong doing".

3. Nothing is perfect, no matter how good the intentions are.

Thu 4 Feb 2021 7:55 PM by Blitze

Soloing is a huge money sink, feathers may help.

Thu 4 Feb 2021 8:26 PM by ExcretusMaximus

DJ2000 wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Feb 2021 7:40 PM
1. This is not about smallman, it's about "Feathers for level 50 solo kills". If you want to go off rails i won't accompany you there. Open up a new Topic in the "Ask the Team" section.

2. Unlike Sepplord who puts time, effort and thoughts behind his posts, you are literally just shouting. Open up a new Topic in the "Ask the Team" section and demand an answer for this "wrong doing".

3. Nothing is perfect, no matter how good the intentions are.

I directly answered your question, the fact that you think I didn't put time into my answer reveals your bias toward me. I was rude to you in one post when you first got here and you haven't gotten over it in like 8 months. Here's a well-thought out response to a person holding a grudge over being told his opinion on something he didn't even understand at the time didn't matter ( "LOL DOES ACUITY EVEN RAISE CONCENTRATION POOL?" ) : Try getting over it and growing up. There, now you have a new reason to hold a grudge.

Thu 4 Feb 2021 11:45 PM by DJ2000

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Thu 4 Feb 2021 8:26 PM
1. I directly answered your question, the fact that you think I didn't put time into my answer reveals your bias toward me. I was rude to you in one post when you first got here and you haven't gotten over it in like 8 months. Here's a well-thought out response to a person holding a grudge over being told his opinion on something he didn't even understand at the time didn't matter ( "LOL DOES ACUITY EVEN RAISE CONCENTRATION POOL?" ) : Try getting over it and growing up. There, now you have a new reason to hold a grudge.

This is way out off topic...whatever.
There was no question by me, at least not in the part you quoted. And if anything it was more a response than an answer on your part, but it doesn't really matter, does it?
I can assure you, there is or was never any grudge. Not new, not old or of any kind...you are actually fighting a one-sided war here.
That's just petty, come on. I am way too old for that, and i am sure you are too, if not even older than me.
But, for what its worth, i guess i'll do as you say and "get over it and grow up" then. So, if this actually bothered you all this time in some way, you can put it to rest now.