Endurance Changes and Paladin / Albion issues.

Started 1 Nov 2018
by aprilrayne
in Suggestions
Feedback on new changes and endurance issues:

It seems like the latest changes will make Albion at a disadvantage when it comes to group set up and choice of set up. Whereas I was of the assumption (and perhaps many others were) – Phoenix had a mission to strive and make some of the classes around the realms more viable – but hopefully not at the expense of causing an imbalance to the realm v. realm content.

I understand the devs preferring us to group with the endurance classes instead of running potions, however, shaman and bard have always been viable in every group set up per their realm. Paladins, on the other hand are still not at that level. I don’t know what is needed. Perhaps stoism, or something?

The recent changes have me concerned for the Albion realm, as it now will streamline the choices of group setup and pushes the choices into a bottle neck, where FIVE of the classes you must run to be viable (and comparable to the other realms) are cleric, cleric, minstrel, sorc, and now paladin. (This doesn’t even cover the lack of full resists that the other realms have access to as well, given by core classes of every group).

TANGENT: (To cover speed, end, mez, heals and buffs)
Hib only needs a druid, druid and bard to start a group and has flexibility thereafter. (3 core classes)
Mid needs healer, healer, shaman, skald to start a group and has flexibility thereafter. (4 core classes)

If this change remains and goes into live/launch – then I would strongly urge the devs to reexamine the paladin as a class itself, and revisit just how else it can be more comparable to shamans and bards, in contrast to the many different KEY abilities that are given to them (IE Mez, demez, disease, base buffs, conc based end, roots and heals – etc).

At the very least, I would also suggest to keep end 4 yellow regen pots as well, if none of the above will be addressed.

Thanks.
-a
Fri 2 Nov 2018 8:58 AM by Druth
Lower chant endo cost, and/or remove power cost for endo chant, and paladins are fine.

Their dps is quite good now, and the chants are a nice boost to the group, even allowing for resist chants if needed.
Fri 2 Nov 2018 9:09 AM by Hedien
Hello all,

I agree with the poster on the frustration it will create, but I don't care much about the perfect balance between realm, more about the one to build groups in general.

Before change : hey, we cannot find a bard/sham/paly - let's go out and roam anyway.
Now : I can't sprint and style anymore if without these classes, let's wait to find one.
Result : People get frustrated, people log off - lose lose.

My playstyle is oriented toward action. If we don't have a full group, nevermind, let's go out and create some action instead of staying pk. This clearly put a dent in the action/recruit time ratio.

Solution for players who want to play faster ? Stop playing melee. I was really excited to try out reaver, but knowing the endo consumption of style + spells, this becomes unfun.

@Grue : Once we were around the Reskin character while you enjoyed showing the relic pad effect on your helm and you shared your wisdom with me in these words : "It is better to give something to players than to take away something". To me, you have started taking away from melees :
- Minimum distance to queue a style.
- Arc to land positional sides.
- Miss rates increase.
- DW penetration nerf (this one was justified but it is still taking stuff away)
- Capping endo 3.
- [Optional] Endo toggle for people that have butter finger and see their target out of range because they didn't sprint in time.

You have shown us that you can revert changes that are not working (except for caravans), well, I think you would need to revert this one. Because this was huge QoL and QoL makes this game bearable after almost 2 decades. For Paladin, well, you would need to find something else to make it a viable group option.

Grim.
Fri 2 Nov 2018 9:22 AM by Druth
I doubt they are done tweaking things, but the endo change landed less than 24 hours ago and people are acting (on Discord) like it's the end of the world, this is still Beta.
Imo the almost unlimited endo was a problem, and I personally welcome having to look out for my endo usage more.

And they'll likely grab casters next and lower resist debuffs, for example, or make power usage higher etc etc...

They are testing stuff, with the intention of making a server with less focus on the set group mentality, but they can't get it all done without people testing it.
Fri 2 Nov 2018 9:34 AM by Kaziera
Make all endo a castable timed buff. All problems regarding solved.

Bard no longer has to twist
Pala no longer has to shut endo on and off to save mana
Shaman no longer has to worry about 20 buffs
Fri 2 Nov 2018 9:43 AM by Firewolf
No chant endo cost, and no power cost for endo chant
atm the endo-costs are much to high
Fri 2 Nov 2018 11:07 AM by klaggorn
The change forces you to be a better player to get the same results. Uthgard had 2 minute endo pot and no one ran a pally. Alb countered by not running speed 6. Get lw2, run an endo pot and run speed 6 since it's still easily viable. As for tanks, toggle your sprint and start practicing those instant endo pots. Pally is still NOT required in the slightest. Monitor your endo or don't sprint.
Fri 2 Nov 2018 2:10 PM by Thinal
It would be nice if you wouldn't post multiple copypasta threads all over hell so we could comment on just one of them.
Fri 2 Nov 2018 5:40 PM by zulgz
Endurance was not unlimited, melee classes still had to pop endurance pots with tireless 2 and lw1 with invig4. I don't think you have tried playing a paladin because endo is more of an issue with that class than just about any other melee class as their chants cost endo and 2h styles cost a lot of endurance as well. You could give paladins enough spec points to go 50 in every line and it will not make it any better. If you want paladins to be considered viable there are things you need to look into instead of making invigs only go to 3 and taking away tireless which I considered one of the things on your server to be amazing.

Bards being required to twist is not asking a lot from them due to harps being in game, the issue comes in that songs are interuptable and this is why they have the largest range on their endurance. Shaman conc is an issue but because their endurance is guaranteed at all times just like paladin endurance and that is why the range on them are lower. This change can be played around and people can adapt to it but the issue is that you guys put in something that was a huge QoL change in comparison to other servers but now you want to get rid of the things that people like about your server.

With a set date of Jan 12 for live release I don't think anyone was expecting this to be the focus of your balance just because it was a non issue besides paladins not getting groups, as bards and shamans are obviously going to be ran no matter what. Giving paladins more spec points does not make the class more desireable. What it lacks is chant up time/endurance and power usage/no stoicism. It has a great RA in Faith Healing but in order to get this RA the class requires RR7+ especially with the tireless change. Perhaps giving paladins access to serenity would help them tremendously. This class is not alone in this as there are other classes that can be out shinned very easily, but that is a different issue that is integral to this game. Classes are different therefore some will be good at one thing but terrible in other aspects.

The caravan concept was unique and honestly it's awesome for keep warfare the issue is you have this NPC mini wrecking crew than run down main paths in the frontiers that cause havoc if they are ever aggrod by a group at the wrong time and the fact that they are pumping out a caravans so often is insane perhaps a caravan an hour would be more ideal and making it have a bigger impact on keep upgrade or down grade would be the way to go.

The old RA system is broken and I feel this should be the main focus of your balance reviews. There is simply no reason why certain RAs have no visual Qs to show that they are activated I'm talking TWF. Purge being 30 minutes is disgusting as a whole and should really be dropped in reuse time to allow groups more flexibility instead of being CC'd and releasing. Things like GP and SoS are completely overpowering when used in a fight while things like PR are lackluster in comparison. VP should not exist as with only a few VP going off you can instantly drop a large stack of player with no possible way to fight back. You get my point, please review the RAs.

TLR
Give endurance 4 back/Give Tireless RA back/Review OF RAs/Look into caravans
PITCH FORKS OUT HELLFIRE AND BRIMSTONE
Sat 3 Nov 2018 9:59 AM by Sei
I don t see any issue with forcing Albion to put Paladin in there mele set up, it s not like it would make alb grp suddendly not viable for that.

And you are also wrong in your diagnosis : nothing force you to play double cleric + sorc + minst + Paladin.
Sat 3 Nov 2018 3:56 PM by Sepplord
nothing forces anyone...
hibs groups aren't forced to run bards or druids, they can also just take 8champions and walk to emain
what a bullshit argument to make


from a 8vs8 POV you are heavily disadvantaged if HIB/MID run with speed 6 and you only run speed 5, regardless of melee or castergroup

so PUGing is far harder in albion than in hib and mid (that's a fact and also the reason why albion was always the zerg realm...because building a PUG in albion was a huge PITA, while other realms needed less mandatory classes and could set up their groups more freely
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