Discussion/Proposed Changes - Phoenix Freeshard

First and foremost, this is from a strictly solo/small man player. I'd like to open up a dialogue on the following issues:

1. ABLATIVES: Ablatives should be reworked to also mitigate magic damage. As it stands now, everything a solo player has access to is built to deal with physical damage. This makes poison damage, in particular, seem a lot stronger than it should be. I know some will mention Avoidance of Magic as some cure-all, but let's be real -- it takes far too many points to be worthwhile.

2. DISEASE: Disease, across all forms, lasts for an outrageous amount of time. This has been brought up numerous times and I don't know why it has been left unchanged. I would like to see it reduced to the 15-20s range, but I'd also like to see what others think is a reasonable duration. Nearsight duration should also be discussed, but that's not what I will be addressing with this post.

3. CRIPPLING POISON: It lasts too long and it doesn't break on damage opening up some major cheesing potential. I understand it has existed in this form since the beginning, but players actually understand how to play games now. The critical strike line already offers Garrote, an anytime snare ripe for abuse. I get that CP grants immunity when it expires, but who cares if it lasts for a minute.

4. STATIC TEMPEST: I don't really have to much to say with ST. I'm just not really a fan of being continuously slammed/annihalated to oblivion with little to no counter-play other than running out of it's radius before getting slammed in it.

5. SHIELD SWAPPING BETWEEN SWINGS: In my opinion, there is no reason you should benefit from both the more meaningful attack (whether that be 2H or DW) and also the defense of the shield. It's one or the other. As with all of these, I understand that they existed in the same fashion since the beginning. However, that is not a legitimate argument. Players have evolved and actually know how to abuse these mechanics (with the help of macro's which is a whole other issue). I would propose either a nerf to block chance when swapping or completely negate the ability to block for 1-2s after switching (alternatively, negate the ability to block the next attack).

6. REVERT MASTERY OF PAIN NERFS: Not entirely sure why it was nerfed to begin with as I wasn't playing at the time. As it stands now, it feels there is a very little reason to spec in MoP specifically. I can't speak for Wild Power as I don't participate in 8 man/zerg action nor do I play a caster.

7: REFLEX ATTACK: I'll admit, I don't have a strong opinion on RA. I rarely fight players with RA as a solo visible, so I more just want to hear what others think of it -- especially those that go against it often.

I mainly want to hear what other's think on each of these topics. I'll also reiterate this is from the perspective of a solo/small man visible. Discuss.

Wed 17 Feb 2021 9:21 PM by Gotmagi

I strongly agree with all points, except maybe Reflex attack, have not found it to be op at all in my time soloing.
Nerfing disease to 15-20s is too much, 1 min duration should be enough.

Wed 17 Feb 2021 9:48 PM by easytoremember

I assume the crit chances were nerfed because whatever-the-streak-avoidance-thing-was-called that's in use here garuntees a crit every 3rd hit with 10+39% crit,
and every 4th hit with 10+33%, both as minimums

I'm happy with the variance and it sounds like you're treating that as a nerf

Wed 17 Feb 2021 9:53 PM by Patron

I strongly disagree with all.
Let it be as it is andd be since 17 years.

Wed 17 Feb 2021 10:12 PM by Exploder

Patron wrote: I strongly disagree with all.
Let it be as it is andd be since 17 years.

Okay, so your reasoning is because it was this way in the beginning that it shouldn't be changed? Do you feel DaoC was truly that balanced in its inception, or do you just not want to mess with the original game design even if it improves gameplay?

Wed 17 Feb 2021 11:48 PM by Kurbsen

Exploder wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Feb 2021 7:24 PM
First and foremost, this is from a strictly solo/small man player. I'd like to open up a dialogue on the following issues:

5. SHIELD SWAPPING BETWEEN SWINGS: In my opinion, there is no reason you should benefit from both the more meaningful attack (whether that be 2H or DW) and also the defense of the shield. It's one or the other. As with all of these, I understand that they existed in the same fashion since the beginning. However, that is not a legitimate argument. Players have evolved and actually know how to abuse these mechanics (with the help of macro's which is a whole other issue). I would propose either a nerf to block chance when swapping or completely negate the ability to block for 1-2s after switching (alternatively, negate the ability to block the next attack).

Discuss.

You dont have to macro shield swapping.. you press two individual keys- one for shield and one for 2h, You dont even have to use /switch command unless youre using a different weapon. Since you are a solo player, I highly suggest that you learn to use it instead of wanting it to be nerfed. It creates a much higher skill cap for the character and much more satisfying winning fight by swapping correctly. Ill tell you one scenario (there are multiple) where if block chance got nerfed from swapping it would hinder group gameplay. Picture an armsman peeling 3 guys off a caster. He is gonna have guard on them and inbetween slams/guard he will pull out his pole to snare and swap back to block. If there is a penalty on blocking then that caster probably isnt gonna get free that easily without taking a lot of damage.

my advice is to learn to do it and not want it nerfed. No need for this to be touched at all.

Thu 18 Feb 2021 12:00 AM by gotwqqd

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Feb 2021 11:48 PM
Exploder wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Feb 2021 7:24 PM
First and foremost, this is from a strictly solo/small man player. I'd like to open up a dialogue on the following issues:

5. SHIELD SWAPPING BETWEEN SWINGS: In my opinion, there is no reason you should benefit from both the more meaningful attack (whether that be 2H or DW) and also the defense of the shield. It's one or the other. As with all of these, I understand that they existed in the same fashion since the beginning. However, that is not a legitimate argument. Players have evolved and actually know how to abuse these mechanics (with the help of macro's which is a whole other issue). I would propose either a nerf to block chance when swapping or completely negate the ability to block for 1-2s after switching (alternatively, negate the ability to block the next attack).

Discuss.

You dont have to macro shield swapping.. you press two individual keys- one for shield and one for 2h, You dont even have to use /switch command unless youre using a different weapon. Since you are a solo player, I highly suggest that you learn to use it instead of wanting it to be nerfed. It creates a much higher skill cap for the character and much more satisfying winning fight by swapping correctly. Ill tell you one scenario (there are multiple) where if block chance got nerfed from swapping it would hinder group gameplay. Picture an armsman peeling 3 guys off a caster. He is gonna have guard on them and inbetween slams/guard he will pull out his pole to snare and swap back to block. If there is a penalty on blocking then that caster probably isnt gonna get free that easily without taking a lot of damage.

my advice is to learn to do it and not want it nerfed. No need for this to be touched at all.

It’s still garbage swapping to shield after each two hander attack, as is assassins being able to swap endlessly reapplying poisons.

Thu 18 Feb 2021 8:07 AM by Patron

Nope its not, its just DAoC...

Exploder wrote:
Patron wrote: I strongly disagree with all.
Let it be as it is andd be since 17 years.

Okay, so your reasoning is because it was this way in the beginning that it shouldn't be changed? Do you feel DaoC was truly that balanced in its inception, or do you just not want to mess with the original game design even if it improves gameplay?

I dont need a reason for little crybabies which try to influence the serverteam to do worse changes and crush the daoc experience...
You freaks just destroy the game we all love with your change-festish....
So much classes and mechanics got broken, we´re not at shitty WoW, this is daoc!

Thu 18 Feb 2021 9:16 AM by byron

The eternal war : caster vs melee players.

RAs :

1- AoM vs PF: I don't understand why AoM has reverted back to old (low) values while PF not. I spent a lot of point for AoM 6 to have 20% as secondary resist (I'm not enough to increase it more) but now I have 12% without any free real abilities respec. The two RAs should have the same values imho.
2- Increase damage : casters have wild power, augmented acuty, mastery of magery while melees have augmented strength and master of pain, so 3vs2. A caster has way more room to increase his damage as long he increase his realm rank. In addition the debuff mechanism give them an high damage also at RR1, melee doesn't have any debuff of physical resists while he needs to fight many casters with PF (see point 1).
PS: Since RAs are the only way to mitigate the debuff mechanism, it can frustrate new players or fresh chars with very few RAs to spend. I know it will be criticized but maybe stoicism can give also magic resist (maybe not 25% but something) to help tanks to survive.

Weapon/Shield swapping :

If someone change his weapon using the weapon slot don't see any issue, the weapon is already equipped so it means that you are switching weapons you already have. /switch command is another story: in this case I see it is quite an abuse, especially for SB/NS/Infi. In this case I'll put at least a 3-5 seconds cooldown when this command is used.

Thu 18 Feb 2021 5:17 PM by Magesty

Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Feb 2021 11:48 PM
You dont have to macro shield swapping.. you press two individual keys- one for shield and one for 2h, You dont even have to use /switch command unless youre using a different weapon. Since you are a solo player, I highly suggest that you learn to use it instead of wanting it to be nerfed. It creates a much higher skill cap for the character and much more satisfying winning fight by swapping correctly. Ill tell you one scenario (there are multiple) where if block chance got nerfed from swapping it would hinder group gameplay. Picture an armsman peeling 3 guys off a caster. He is gonna have guard on them and inbetween slams/guard he will pull out his pole to snare and swap back to block. If there is a penalty on blocking then that caster probably isnt gonna get free that easily without taking a lot of damage.

my advice is to learn to do it and not want it nerfed. No need for this to be touched at all.

Does this really hinder group gameplay if both sides are affected equally? It really just sounds like you 8man and want to be able to have your cake and eat it too while rolling over a small man that is focusing one of your casters in a last-ditch effort to get a kill.

I find it puzzling when pressing a couple of additional buttons in between 3-4 second swings is seen as breaking through a skill ceiling, and the only meaningful argument for it remaining in the game is basically "get good". In reality it is the gaming of an existing system that was likely not intended in initial design, and it affects the actual balance of solo and small man gameplay far more than 8v8. Much like weapon swapping on assassins and twisting changes on paladins/skalds, it is a clunky mechanic that you must do to play optimally, and the use of it has proliferated as all aspects of DAoC have been "gamified" over the past decade. Why do these types mechanics need to remain in the game? It isn't a matter of decision making, balancing risk vs reward, comboing synergistic abilities or hitting a skill shot. It is pressing additional keys in a sequence the same way every time. Do you really feel that you are skilled because you press a couple more keys in a situation in which both planning and actual mechanical skill are absent? There is no reason not to swap in between every swing no matter the circumstance. Is this the level of "gamer" I get rolled by as a solo on the coasts of beno, crau and bled?

Constantly weapon swapping to abuse 1h/shield defensive chances are a prime example of the type of "rote" gameplay that, while it creates an advantage, isn't actually skillful.

Thu 18 Feb 2021 6:30 PM by Kurbsen

Magesty wrote: ↑
Thu 18 Feb 2021 5:17 PM
Kurbsen wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Feb 2021 11:48 PM
You dont have to macro shield swapping.. you press two individual keys- one for shield and one for 2h, You dont even have to use /switch command unless youre using a different weapon. Since you are a solo player, I highly suggest that you learn to use it instead of wanting it to be nerfed. It creates a much higher skill cap for the character and much more satisfying winning fight by swapping correctly. Ill tell you one scenario (there are multiple) where if block chance got nerfed from swapping it would hinder group gameplay. Picture an armsman peeling 3 guys off a caster. He is gonna have guard on them and inbetween slams/guard he will pull out his pole to snare and swap back to block. If there is a penalty on blocking then that caster probably isnt gonna get free that easily without taking a lot of damage.

my advice is to learn to do it and not want it nerfed. No need for this to be touched at all.

Does this really hinder group gameplay if both sides are affected equally? It really just sounds like you 8man and want to be able to have your cake and eat it too while rolling over a small man that is focusing one of your casters in a last-ditch effort to get a kill.

I find it puzzling when pressing a couple of additional buttons in between 3-4 second swings is seen as breaking through a skill ceiling, and the only meaningful argument for it remaining in the game is basically "get good". In reality it is the gaming of an existing system that was likely not intended in initial design, and it affects the actual balance of solo and small man gameplay far more than 8v8. Much like weapon swapping on assassins and twisting changes on paladins/skalds, it is a clunky mechanic that you must do to play optimally, and the use of it has proliferated as all aspects of DAoC have been "gamified" over the past decade. Why do these types mechanics need to remain in the game? It isn't a matter of decision making, balancing risk vs reward, comboing synergistic abilities or hitting a skill shot. It is pressing additional keys in a sequence the same way every time. Do you really feel that you are skilled because you press a couple more keys in a situation in which both planning and actual mechanical skill are absent? There is no reason not to swap in between every swing no matter the circumstance. Is this the level of "gamer" I get rolled by as a solo on the coasts of beno, crau and bled?

Constantly weapon swapping to abuse 1h/shield defensive chances are a prime example of the type of "rote" gameplay that, while it creates an advantage, isn't actually skillful.

considering this has always been a feature within daoc, I would say people against it are just crying for a nerf because they never decided to learn how to do it in 20 years. And ofcourse itll bring a higher skill to the class? Youre pressing more buttons, youre doing more actions? That is called a rotation.

Thu 18 Feb 2021 7:51 PM by The Skies Asunder

It is entirely possible for people who are good at this game (or in my case used to be good) to want something nerfed, even if it is something that you have to "git gud" at (swapping between shield and 2h slot is not difficult, and neither is swapping with /switch). Telling people they don't know how to do it is not helping your argument. Swapping weapons constantly is a stupid mechanic, regardless of how "good" you are at it. I obviously take advantage of this system as well, since I almost always play stealth characters. I also understand it would be difficult to change at this point without tons of players being upset. It doesn't change the fact that it was likely an unintended use, as many systems in many games turn out to have. And a pretty stupid one at that.