Cleric Smite line - Time for a buff - Buff changes give a HUGE boost to druids!!!!

This is long over due. The Smite line took a major nerf right before our active patch level. It simply does not make sense in the current context of Phoenix.

Case in point THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE ACTIVE SMITE CLERIC IN THE GAME!!!!

We need sweeping buffs across the board. Range increases. Something new and unique..

The buff changes have opened the door for Druids and Clerics to have more creativity with their specs. The Smite line falls WAY short of nature spec.

40 regrowth and 36 nature druids will be CRUSHING the competition. Instana AOE root. Single instant root. Aoe long duration root. Single long duration root..blue pet.. 3 second nearsight cure and MASSIVE heals..

40 rej 36 smite cleric is a damn joke in comparison.. 145 dmg 1350(!!!!) range nuke..... Pbaoe insta mez on a 5 mins CD for 25 seconds............ (WHAT A JOKE!!!) aoe insta DD for 82 dmg on a 20 sec CD..

SOMEONE PLEASE LOOK AT THIS!!! its time.

Fri 3 May 2019 2:39 AM by cere2

Don't forget the stun.....

I'd be on board for extending the range to 1500. But Live made cleric stupid OP.

Fri 3 May 2019 1:40 PM by soiehib1337

Smite line is fine. You can stun and interrupt which is what you are supposed to do when not healing. If you request for something, just ask to bring back the remove buff spells.
PBAE mezz is fine too. The issue is more with everyone having determination on this server. You can mezz pets, it's good enough.

Your issue is not with the cleric, it's with the buff potions, they unbalance the game. Remove buff potions, it's fine.

Fri 3 May 2019 4:12 PM by Sharky04

Most druids would take insta mezz + stun over root any time. Two forms of CC always better than one.

Fri 3 May 2019 4:20 PM by Lollie

slightly off topic but did druid pets get boosted here because they always used to be green con back in the day?

Fri 3 May 2019 5:16 PM by Zzang

soiehib1337 wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 1:40 PM
Smite line is fine. You can stun and interrupt which is what you are supposed to do when not healing. If you request for something, just ask to bring back the remove buff spells.
PBAE mezz is fine too. The issue is more with everyone having determination on this server. You can mezz pets, it's good enough.

Your issue is not with the cleric, it's with the buff potions, they unbalance the game. Remove buff potions, it's fine.

What a load of bull. Stun is baseline and not at all in smite spec line. Stun is the only castable 1500 range interrupt which means you will waste stun immunity as soon as you want to just interrupt something.

PBAE mezz is not fine. 200 radius PBAE every 5 minutes with ridicoulously low duration, it's not even guaranteed to land on a tank that has stick on you because of the small area around you. Not only that but again you give mezz immunity for a very cheap price.

Single castable mezz, 1500 range on DDs and higher delve on DDs would make a great addition.

I bet his issue is with the smite cleric, it's the only line not at all specced above 14 for any cleric with over 50 IQ atm.

Fri 3 May 2019 5:40 PM by Gloti

Decrease the cast times of the DD-Spells :

Greater Holy Fury from 3sec to 2sec
Heavenly Detonation from 4sec to 3sec

Decrease the Recast delay of Theophany from 5min to 2.5min

Add a Self-Haste-Buff, 30sec duration and recast of 2min

Add a Self-Buff with a chance of DD the Enemy

I think this would help. I like Smiters but I think they wont change the smite line, cause the game doesn't need another or a better warrior healer - and Albion don't need Smiters too.

Fri 3 May 2019 5:45 PM by teiloh

Sharky04 wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 4:12 PM
Most druids would take insta mezz + stun over root any time. Two forms of CC always better than one.

LOL

They really wouldn't. Maybe if the insta roots in question were equally shitty low duration, PBAE versions.

Lollie wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 4:20 PM
slightly off topic but did druid pets get boosted here because they always used to be green con back in the day?

Anecdotally, they stun more and are much sturdier.

Fri 3 May 2019 6:36 PM by soiehib1337

Zzang wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 5:16 PM
soiehib1337 wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 1:40 PM
Smite line is fine. You can stun and interrupt which is what you are supposed to do when not healing. If you request for something, just ask to bring back the remove buff spells.
PBAE mezz is fine too. The issue is more with everyone having determination on this server. You can mezz pets, it's good enough.

Your issue is not with the cleric, it's with the buff potions, they unbalance the game. Remove buff potions, it's fine.

What a load of bull. Stun is baseline and not at all in smite spec line. Stun is the only castable 1500 range interrupt which means you will waste stun immunity as soon as you want to just interrupt something.

PBAE mezz is not fine. 200 radius PBAE every 5 minutes with ridicoulously low duration, it's not even guaranteed to land on a tank that has stick on you because of the small area around you. Not only that but again you give mezz immunity for a very cheap price.

Single castable mezz, 1500 range on DDs and higher delve on DDs would make a great addition.

I bet his issue is with the smite cleric, it's the only line not at all specced above 14 for any cleric with over 50 IQ atm.

Stun is baseline yes. You can interrupt with it, whether there is or isnt an immune. Pbae mezz is fine. It's designed mosty to interrupt/mezz pets. Of course it doesnt land on a tank and gives immunity. Because you're not supposed to cast it on a tank. Like you're not supposed to cast a stun on a tank either. If you want to dd and mezz, roll a Sorc... You got a 176 delve 3.0s spirit DD at 43 being a healer in plate. I mean the baseline DD of a caster is 179 at ~45... What more do you want ?

Fri 3 May 2019 6:46 PM by teiloh

Suggestions:

Baseline DD
180 damage, 2.6s cast, 1350 range, 28 power

Baseline Stun
+1 second

Spec DD
Damage increased 30% to pre-nerf values, power cost reduced 20%
Will be strong in close quarters/midrange

PBAE DD
Damage increased 65%, radius scales up from 200 -> 400, cooldown scales down from 20 -> 8
This ability does pretty sad DPS. A Cleric is not going to want to be in melee, so to serve a purpose this needs to hit hard. DD value closer to live

PBAE Mez
30s CD like it was pre-nerf
5m CD is absurd

AOE DD
3s cast, damage equalized, power reduced 50%

Self DA
Tripled values
Niche use. If you have a spec self DA, you might as well make it worth something to a Cleric that's stuck in melee.

New Spell: AOE Silence

1500 Range, 2.5s Cast, Silence
Level 13 Silence Heresy, 150 Radius, 4s
Level 23 Admonish Heresy, 200 Radius, 5s
Level 30 Censure Heresy, 250 Radius, 6s
Level 40 Rebuke Heresy, 300 Radius, 7s
Level 48 Castigate Heresy, 350 Radius, 9s
Will round out a niche line built for zoning/deterrence with unique and useful utility

References: https://archive.org/details/Dark_Age_of_Camelot_Revised_and_Expanded_Prima_Official_eGuide/page/n63

Fri 3 May 2019 6:49 PM by teiloh

soiehib1337 wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 6:36 PM
Stun is baseline yes. You can interrupt with it, whether there is or isnt an immune. Pbae mezz is fine. It's designed mosty to interrupt/mezz pets. Of course it doesnt land on a tank and gives immunity. Because you're not supposed to cast it on a tank. Like you're not supposed to cast a stun on a tank either. If you want to dd and mezz, roll a Sorc... You got a 176 delve 3.0s spirit DD at 43 being a healer in plate. I mean the baseline DD of a caster is 179 at ~45... What more do you want ?

Shaman get disease and DoT that are BETTER than a full caster's spec spells -in their baseline

And Smite Clerics need to spec 43 smite to get something that does 15% less DPS (176/3 vs. 179/2.6) than a caster baseline.

AND they don't benefit from Acuity buffs (8-10% DPS increase)
AND it has 150 less range.
AND they don't benefit from focus. (25% less power or something)
AND they don't get rising dex. (2-3% slower casts)
AND they don't crit. (10% base)

Matching delves will not kill anyone. In fact giving Clerics a 209/225 nuke in Smite *baseline* would just follow the logic of Shaman cave.

Sat 4 May 2019 7:05 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

44 smite/ enuff for group insta heal and single insta heal/ rest buffs + moc 5 smite and insteal heal yourself, gg!

Sat 4 May 2019 11:50 AM by Sharky04

Druids don't have blue pets, not possible.

Sun 5 May 2019 2:49 PM by Dariussdars

If you want to play a damage caster in Alb, try an Earth Wizard, Body Sorc, Spirit Cab, Necro.

Laughable reading all of these buffs you all think a healing class should get for their damage abilities.

Sun 5 May 2019 2:51 PM by Dariussdars

teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 6:49 PM
soiehib1337 wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 6:36 PM
Stun is baseline yes. You can interrupt with it, whether there is or isnt an immune. Pbae mezz is fine. It's designed mosty to interrupt/mezz pets. Of course it doesnt land on a tank and gives immunity. Because you're not supposed to cast it on a tank. Like you're not supposed to cast a stun on a tank either. If you want to dd and mezz, roll a Sorc... You got a 176 delve 3.0s spirit DD at 43 being a healer in plate. I mean the baseline DD of a caster is 179 at ~45... What more do you want ?

Shaman get disease and DoT that are BETTER than a full caster's spec spells -in their baseline

And Smite Clerics need to spec 43 smite to get something that does 15% less DPS (176/3 vs. 179/2.6) than a caster baseline.

AND they don't benefit from Acuity buffs (8-10% DPS increase)
AND it has 150 less range.
AND they don't benefit from focus. (25% less power or something)
AND they don't get rising dex. (2-3% slower casts)
AND they don't crit. (10% base)

Matching delves will not kill anyone. In fact giving Clerics a 209/225 nuke in Smite *baseline* would just follow the logic of Shaman cave.

You just described a Thane, aside from the -150 range on their DD. Thane is a damage hybrid, not a healing hybrid. Now you are asking for a baseline 209/225 nuke on a healing class? LOL. Shaman cave DD has a recast timer, Smite DD doesn't. You want a 225 delve DD, give it a 20 second recast.

Sun 5 May 2019 3:18 PM by Yokahu

The last time I played a cleric was when the smite nerf hit the servers back in the days. It was so satisfying playing a smite cleric in Andred.

If the nerf is reverted I would be playing a smite cleric again.

Sun 5 May 2019 8:13 PM by teiloh

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Sun 5 May 2019 2:51 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 6:49 PM
soiehib1337 wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 6:36 PM
Stun is baseline yes. You can interrupt with it, whether there is or isnt an immune. Pbae mezz is fine. It's designed mosty to interrupt/mezz pets. Of course it doesnt land on a tank and gives immunity. Because you're not supposed to cast it on a tank. Like you're not supposed to cast a stun on a tank either. If you want to dd and mezz, roll a Sorc... You got a 176 delve 3.0s spirit DD at 43 being a healer in plate. I mean the baseline DD of a caster is 179 at ~45... What more do you want ?

Shaman get disease and DoT that are BETTER than a full caster's spec spells -in their baseline

And Smite Clerics need to spec 43 smite to get something that does 15% less DPS (176/3 vs. 179/2.6) than a caster baseline.

AND they don't benefit from Acuity buffs (8-10% DPS increase)
AND it has 150 less range.
AND they don't benefit from focus. (25% less power or something)
AND they don't get rising dex. (2-3% slower casts)
AND they don't crit. (10% base)

Matching delves will not kill anyone. In fact giving Clerics a 209/225 nuke in Smite *baseline* would just follow the logic of Shaman cave.

You just described a Thane, aside from the -150 range on their DD. Thane is a damage hybrid, not a healing hybrid. Now you are asking for a baseline 209/225 nuke on a healing class? LOL. Shaman cave DD has a recast timer, Smite DD doesn't. You want a 225 delve DD, give it a 20 second recast.

Having trouble with basic math?

Thane 184/2.4s = 76.6

Wizard 219/2.8 = 78.2

And read where I said Shaman cave dots and disease. I know you have trouble keeping up, but try a bit harder.

Sun 5 May 2019 9:27 PM by Dariussdars

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sun 5 May 2019 8:13 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Sun 5 May 2019 2:51 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Fri 3 May 2019 6:49 PM
Shaman get disease and DoT that are BETTER than a full caster's spec spells -in their baseline

And Smite Clerics need to spec 43 smite to get something that does 15% less DPS (176/3 vs. 179/2.6) than a caster baseline.

AND they don't benefit from Acuity buffs (8-10% DPS increase)
AND it has 150 less range.
AND they don't benefit from focus. (25% less power or something)
AND they don't get rising dex. (2-3% slower casts)
AND they don't crit. (10% base)

Matching delves will not kill anyone. In fact giving Clerics a 209/225 nuke in Smite *baseline* would just follow the logic of Shaman cave.

You just described a Thane, aside from the -150 range on their DD. Thane is a damage hybrid, not a healing hybrid. Now you are asking for a baseline 209/225 nuke on a healing class? LOL. Shaman cave DD has a recast timer, Smite DD doesn't. You want a 225 delve DD, give it a 20 second recast.

Having trouble with basic math?

Thane 184/2.4s = 76.6

Wizard 219/2.8 = 78.2

And read where I said Shaman cave dots and disease. I know you have trouble keeping up, but try a bit harder.

Earth Wizard gets a damage boost from acuity buff, thane doesn't. Earth wizard gets dex as a rising stat, thane doesn't. Earth wizard also gets a snare nuke, nearsight, etc., etc., etc.

Does an Earth Wizard have any spell other than a DD, like a Thane? EW>Thane, all day every day.

Guess you thought you had a point made, nice try though.

Mon 6 May 2019 9:10 PM by teiloh

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Sun 5 May 2019 9:27 PM
Earth Wizard gets a damage boost from acuity buff, thane doesn't. Earth wizard gets dex as a rising stat, thane doesn't. Earth wizard also gets a snare nuke, nearsight, etc., etc., etc.

Does an Earth Wizard have any spell other than a DD, like a Thane? EW>Thane, all day every day.

Guess you thought you had a point made, nice try though.

Lol. And neither does a Smite Cleric. And they have -150 range and 1.0 spec points.

Mon 6 May 2019 9:14 PM by Dariussdars

teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 9:10 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Sun 5 May 2019 9:27 PM
Earth Wizard gets a damage boost from acuity buff, thane doesn't. Earth wizard gets dex as a rising stat, thane doesn't. Earth wizard also gets a snare nuke, nearsight, etc., etc., etc.

Does an Earth Wizard have any spell other than a DD, like a Thane? EW>Thane, all day every day.

Guess you thought you had a point made, nice try though.

Lol. And neither does a Smite Cleric. And they have -150 range and 1.0 spec points.

A CLERIC is a healing class genius. Why exactly do you think you should achieve pure caster DPS on a healer? Play a damage caster if you want to do caster damage.

Mon 6 May 2019 11:46 PM by teiloh

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 9:14 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 9:10 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Sun 5 May 2019 9:27 PM
Earth Wizard gets a damage boost from acuity buff, thane doesn't. Earth wizard gets dex as a rising stat, thane doesn't. Earth wizard also gets a snare nuke, nearsight, etc., etc., etc.

Does an Earth Wizard have any spell other than a DD, like a Thane? EW>Thane, all day every day.

Guess you thought you had a point made, nice try though.

Lol. And neither does a Smite Cleric. And they have -150 range and 1.0 spec points.
A CLERIC is a healing class genius. Why exactly do you think you should achieve pure caster DPS on a healer? Play a damage caster if you want to do caster damage.

hur dur

Why do you think you should achieve pure caster DPS on a tank?

And like we BOTH SAID, neither class gets acuity, or focus, or base crit, or rising dex.

Top minds.

Tue 7 May 2019 4:23 AM by Zzang

Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 9:14 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 6 May 2019 9:10 PM
Dariussdars wrote: ↑
Sun 5 May 2019 9:27 PM
Earth Wizard gets a damage boost from acuity buff, thane doesn't. Earth wizard gets dex as a rising stat, thane doesn't. Earth wizard also gets a snare nuke, nearsight, etc., etc., etc.

Does an Earth Wizard have any spell other than a DD, like a Thane? EW>Thane, all day every day.

Guess you thought you had a point made, nice try though.

Lol. And neither does a Smite Cleric. And they have -150 range and 1.0 spec points.
A CLERIC is a healing class genius. Why exactly do you think you should achieve pure caster DPS on a healer? Play a damage caster if you want to do caster damage.

What kind of stupid reasoning is this? Every healing class in Daoc has a secondary purpose, just look at pac healers. Why should they get cc spells? Give them to some other class, it's a HEALING CLASS ffs!!

There should be an incentive to invest in every line for some reason, right now speccing smite as a Cleric is close to totally worthless. I'm not saying there are other spec lines like this (Summoning SM, Enchantment Enchanter, Body Cabalist, Nature druid) but that doesn't change the fact that Smite needs to be looked at.

And anyway, why does it bother you so much that a healing class could get the same caster DPS as a tank? Once you reach and interrupt him he can't do much anyway, unlike a Thane who can just pick up his hammer and start melee dps.

Wed 8 May 2019 5:26 AM by jelzinga_EU

Zzang wrote: ↑
Tue 7 May 2019 4:23 AM
What kind of stupid reasoning is this? Every healing class in Daoc has a secondary purpose, just look at pac healers. Why should they get cc spells? Give them to some other class, it's a HEALING CLASS ffs!!

There should be an incentive to invest in every line for some reason, right now speccing smite as a Cleric is close to totally worthless. I'm not saying there are other spec lines like this (Summoning SM, Enchantment Enchanter, Body Cabalist, Nature druid) but that doesn't change the fact that Smite needs to be looked at.

And anyway, why does it bother you so much that a healing class could get the same caster DPS as a tank? Once you reach and interrupt him he can't do much anyway, unlike a Thane who can just pick up his hammer and start melee dps.

I totally agree that every spec needs an incentive and in its current state Smite is ... well lacking quite a bit.

But on the other hand some balance needs to be retained. Suggestions like 30% to dmg you end up with a delve higher than any other spec-nuker, 9 sec AoE Silence, 200+ delve PBAoE on 8 sec CD - sorry but that is not gonna fly. I know they do not benefit from Acuity and no QC but still.

Smite could use some love - but I don't think upping their damage is the solution - seeing as how they already have the highest dmg of the main-healers. Damage is also something which quickly turns into "it is only viable if it's competitive" which means that clerics need to spec that line 45+ to be truly useful. You then generate a situation where such a cleric would compete with a real DPS-slot, which might sound fun - but since clerics are generally already taking 2 slots in a 8-men, a 3rd would just be silly.

The other problem with such a thing is that a cleric who primarily wants to heal has no benefit from a sub-spec in Smite, as once again it is low damage. Druids are not DPS'ers when they go Nature, they do it for the added utility (pet and AoE root / instant roots). So something similar should be done to Smite in my eyes: Rather than trying to be as good DPS'er as a real DPS, cleric should have the possibility to sub-spec Smite and still get benefit out of it, just like Nature druids. This also prevents the situation from the comic --> Smite-clerics rock, but Albion as a whole suffers because every cleric is Smite..

Adding heal-procs (groupheals?) to the DD's might help a bit - if you decide to go Smite something, you also add some healing to the group. Rather than heals it could also be something like a stacking ablative on a group, a bit like how Disc Priests worked in WoW. Or Smites would generate a DI-effect with a 30 sec duration. The more you smite, the larger the DI-buffer becomes, which heals suddenly damaged targets while you are still in ROOOAAAR Smite modus

Wed 8 May 2019 5:13 PM by teiloh

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 5:26 AM
But on the other hand some balance needs to be retained. Suggestions like 30% to dmg you end up with a delve higher than any other spec-nuker, 9 sec AoE Silence, 200+ delve PBAoE on 8 sec CD - sorry but that is not gonna fly. I know they do not benefit from Acuity and no QC but still.

The delve needs to be higher because it's a 3.0s cast and 1350 range. And Clerics are not a melee class, getting into PBAE range means they're usually toast. This is a design to make Smite clerics a deterrent/zoning spec in groups. The PBAE DPS is not far off from a SR Reaver's double pulsed, double tapped DD aura (115ish every 8 seconds). If you scale for spec points, they're about equal. Still, almost anyone would rather have Shaman's disease as it's infinitely more powerful than a roughly 200-250 damage instant.

Smite could use some love - but I don't think upping their damage is the solution - seeing as how they already have the highest dmg of the main-healers. Damage is also something which quickly turns into "it is only viable if it's competitive" which means that clerics need to spec that line 45+ to be truly useful. You then generate a situation where such a cleric would compete with a real DPS-slot, which might sound fun - but since clerics are generally already taking 2 slots in a 8-men, a 3rd would just be silly.

It depends. If their base nuke is decent, 15-30 spec can have viable niche uses. Also "they already have the highest dmg of the main-healers" isn't relevant, Healers are designed to be the lowest DPS class and they have utility to make up for it. Druids also get utility.

The other problem with such a thing is that a cleric who primarily wants to heal has no benefit from a sub-spec in Smite, as once again it is low damage. Druids are not DPS'ers when they go Nature, they do it for the added utility (pet and AoE root / instant roots). So something similar should be done to Smite in my eyes: Rather than trying to be as good DPS'er as a real DPS, cleric should have the possibility to sub-spec Smite and still get benefit out of it, just like Nature druids. This also prevents the situation from the comic --> Smite-clerics rock, but Albion as a whole suffers because every cleric is Smite..

People who want to play Smiters don't play Rejuv now, as a general rule. Likewise, that's just how the theme is set up, but I'm fine with tweaking it into a utility line. Yet, what kind of utility are you thinking of? NS, DZ, Snare? Heal procs were trialed on live, thought they were cool but don't know why they were taken out. It just honestly doesn't fit the Smite line, thematically.

Wed 8 May 2019 5:33 PM by jelzinga_EU

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 5:13 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 5:26 AM
But on the other hand some balance needs to be retained. Suggestions like 30% to dmg you end up with a delve higher than any other spec-nuker, 9 sec AoE Silence, 200+ delve PBAoE on 8 sec CD - sorry but that is not gonna fly. I know they do not benefit from Acuity and no QC but still.

The delve needs to be higher because it's a 3.0s cast and 1350 range. And Clerics are not a melee class, getting into PBAE range means they're usually toast. This is a design to make Smite clerics a deterrent/zoning spec in groups. The PBAE DPS is not far off from a SR Reaver's double pulsed, double tapped DD aura (115ish every 8 seconds). If you scale for spec points, they're about equal. Still, almost anyone would rather have Shaman's disease as it's infinitely more powerful than a roughly 200-250 damage instant.

Smite could use some love - but I don't think upping their damage is the solution - seeing as how they already have the highest dmg of the main-healers. Damage is also something which quickly turns into "it is only viable if it's competitive" which means that clerics need to spec that line 45+ to be truly useful. You then generate a situation where such a cleric would compete with a real DPS-slot, which might sound fun - but since clerics are generally already taking 2 slots in a 8-men, a 3rd would just be silly.

It depends. If their base nuke is decent, 15-30 spec can have viable niche uses. Also "they already have the highest dmg of the main-healers" isn't relevant, Healers are designed to be the lowest DPS class and they have utility to make up for it. Druids also get utility.

The other problem with such a thing is that a cleric who primarily wants to heal has no benefit from a sub-spec in Smite, as once again it is low damage. Druids are not DPS'ers when they go Nature, they do it for the added utility (pet and AoE root / instant roots). So something similar should be done to Smite in my eyes: Rather than trying to be as good DPS'er as a real DPS, cleric should have the possibility to sub-spec Smite and still get benefit out of it, just like Nature druids. This also prevents the situation from the comic --> Smite-clerics rock, but Albion as a whole suffers because every cleric is Smite..

People who want to play Smiters don't play Rejuv now, as a general rule. Likewise, that's just how the theme is set up, but I'm fine with tweaking it into a utility line. Yet, what kind of utility are you thinking of? NS, DZ, Snare? Heal procs were trialed on live, thought they were cool but don't know why they were taken out. It just honestly doesn't fit the Smite line, thematically.

I understand that people who wanna play Smite aren't the people who "oh well then I'm gonna play Rejuv"-types. The problem is that if you make Smite really competitive you end up with a situation that a 3rd cleric could be added to a group, which in turns makes another class less wanted (too). Since there are already 2 clerics in a group, that seems unneeded. In my eyes it would be much more beneficial to Albion to consider a setup viable with 1 enh/rejuv and 1 smite/rejuv cleric. Since that cleric would go "sub-spec" Smite a sweet-spot should be 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv - and I don't see how a "pure dmg" 36-spec is gonna do anything for Albion or clerics.

I mentioned some utility, e.g. Smite gets a low damage (Snare) nuke which adds the damage to a DI-alike pool (so every X damage you deal gets converted to y*X DI-buffer) which lasts for 30 secs (renews itself when it gets refilled). Nearsight is already available on 2 Alb-classes, I do not think a 3rd would be necessary, but Disease might be an option perhaps only single-target. Then one could also consider a single target mezz on Smite. Rather than a DI-buffer you could also make an Ablative-buffer for both magic and melee

Wed 8 May 2019 6:30 PM by Zzang

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 5:33 PM
I understand that people who wanna play Smite aren't the people who "oh well then I'm gonna play Rejuv"-types. The problem is that if you make Smite really competitive you end up with a situation that a 3rd cleric could be added to a group, which in turns makes another class less wanted (too). Since there are already 2 clerics in a group, that seems unneeded. In my eyes it would be much more beneficial to Albion to consider a setup viable with 1 enh/rejuv and 1 smite/rejuv cleric. Since that cleric would go "sub-spec" Smite a sweet-spot should be 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv - and I don't see how a "pure dmg" 36-spec is gonna do anything for Albion or clerics.

I mentioned some utility, e.g. Smite gets a low damage (Snare) nuke which adds the damage to a DI-alike pool (so every X damage you deal gets converted to y*X DI-buffer) which lasts for 30 secs (renews itself when it gets refilled). Nearsight is already available on 2 Alb-classes, I do not think a 3rd would be necessary, but Disease might be an option perhaps only single-target. Then one could also consider a single target mezz on Smite. Rather than a DI-buffer you could also make an Ablative-buffer for both magic and melee

I can agree to the idea that only fixing range and damage values for Smite would not make it really unique or "supportish" to play, the ideal would be if smite clerics was viable as a support/damage toon and that a 3rd support spot opens up for the friar. The DI buffer or Damage->Heal idea is nice but maybe again too powerful if you play small man if it's geared for full group play, something like Damage done gives groupheals would make it useful but not as powerful in smaller groups.

Earlier I made a post about Smite and one of my suggestions was to add a physical type stun with recast timer to the Smite specline with duration from 3-5-7-9 sec, that would bring an incentive to spec smite but maybe not require you to max it. Another suggestion was to add a focus damage shield that reflects damage done to a single groupmember, that one might be a bit far out but would make for some really interesting plays.

Wed 8 May 2019 6:50 PM by teiloh

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 5:33 PM
I understand that people who wanna play Smite aren't the people who "oh well then I'm gonna play Rejuv"-types. The problem is that if you make Smite really competitive you end up with a situation that a 3rd cleric could be added to a group, which in turns makes another class less wanted (too). Since there are already 2 clerics in a group, that seems unneeded. In my eyes it would be much more beneficial to Albion to consider a setup viable with 1 enh/rejuv and 1 smite/rejuv cleric. Since that cleric would go "sub-spec" Smite a sweet-spot should be 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv - and I don't see how a "pure dmg" 36-spec is gonna do anything for Albion or clerics.

I mentioned some utility, e.g. Smite gets a low damage (Snare) nuke which adds the damage to a DI-alike pool (so every X damage you deal gets converted to y*X DI-buffer) which lasts for 30 secs (renews itself when it gets refilled). Nearsight is already available on 2 Alb-classes, I do not think a 3rd would be necessary, but Disease might be an option perhaps only single-target. Then one could also consider a single target mezz on Smite. Rather than a DI-buffer you could also make an Ablative-buffer for both magic and melee

You will always need a 40 Rejuv and a 40 Enh. Alb needs some way to have 3 Acolytes in a way that's viable - buffing Smite and Friars would get us partway there.

Wed 8 May 2019 8:01 PM by jelzinga_EU

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 6:50 PM
You will always need a 40 Rejuv and a 40 Enh. Alb needs some way to have 3 Acolytes in a way that's viable - buffing Smite and Friars would get us partway there.

Please read what Zzang and I said: 1 cleric can go 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv and the other stays 40 Enh / 36 Rejuv (42/33 or what have you) with buff/conc-changes that should be enough to cover buffs, and the 36 smite should offer utility. If you go rework smite to be "full DPS" you end up with a cleric who is 36 in a "full DPS"-line which is still worthless.

Wed 8 May 2019 8:31 PM by teiloh

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 8:01 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 6:50 PM
You will always need a 40 Rejuv and a 40 Enh. Alb needs some way to have 3 Acolytes in a way that's viable - buffing Smite and Friars would get us partway there.

Please read what Zzang and I said: 1 cleric can go 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv and the other stays 40 Enh / 36 Rejuv (42/33 or what have you) with buff/conc-changes that should be enough to cover buffs, and the 36 smite should offer utility. If you go rework smite to be "full DPS" you end up with a cleric who is 36 in a "full DPS"-line which is still worthless.

Without a third buffer, your bases will be missing 10-20 points.

Thu 9 May 2019 4:52 AM by jelzinga_EU

teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 8:31 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 8:01 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Wed 8 May 2019 6:50 PM
You will always need a 40 Rejuv and a 40 Enh. Alb needs some way to have 3 Acolytes in a way that's viable - buffing Smite and Friars would get us partway there.

Please read what Zzang and I said: 1 cleric can go 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv and the other stays 40 Enh / 36 Rejuv (42/33 or what have you) with buff/conc-changes that should be enough to cover buffs, and the 36 smite should offer utility. If you go rework smite to be "full DPS" you end up with a cleric who is 36 in a "full DPS"-line which is still worthless.

Without a third buffer, your bases will be missing 10-20 points.

If you think bases from a 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv will not be adequate and no attainable level of MoArt is sufficient to close the gap then you need a friar, yes. It however doesn't change the situation that 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv needs to be good - and 36 Smite will never work if it's just "pure DPS".

If you just make it dmg and somehow those 45+ Smiters get into a group where base-differences matter - you end up with a situation where you need 3 clerics, which is something I personally think would be bad game-design. Much rather aim for 2 clerics (and 1 friar) than 3 clerics.

Thu 9 May 2019 5:05 AM by teiloh

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Thu 9 May 2019 4:52 AM
If you think bases from a 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv will not be adequate and no attainable level of MoArt is sufficient to close the gap then you need a friar, yes. It however doesn't change the situation that 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv needs to be good - and 36 Smite will never work if it's just "pure DPS".

If you just make it dmg and somehow those 45+ Smiters get into a group where base-differences matter - you end up with a situation where you need 3 clerics, which is something I personally think would be bad game-design. Much rather aim for 2 clerics (and 1 friar) than 3 clerics.

36 specs work primarily for CC/interrupts or other lines that don't scale up steeply with level like DPS, or poorly designed legacy lines where Mythic messed up a spell line's scaling.

You'd basically have to turn into Pac or Cave or Nature. Right now it's essentially a pure DPS line with baseline stun and a mez, only the DPS is garbage. You'd also have to completely rework the line and change its theme.

Thu 9 May 2019 5:34 AM by jelzinga_EU

teiloh wrote: ↑
Thu 9 May 2019 5:05 AM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Thu 9 May 2019 4:52 AM
If you think bases from a 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv will not be adequate and no attainable level of MoArt is sufficient to close the gap then you need a friar, yes. It however doesn't change the situation that 36 Smite / 40 Rejuv needs to be good - and 36 Smite will never work if it's just "pure DPS".

If you just make it dmg and somehow those 45+ Smiters get into a group where base-differences matter - you end up with a situation where you need 3 clerics, which is something I personally think would be bad game-design. Much rather aim for 2 clerics (and 1 friar) than 3 clerics.

36 specs work primarily for CC/interrupts or other lines that don't scale up steeply with level like DPS, or poorly designed legacy lines where Mythic messed up a spell line's scaling.

You'd basically have to turn into Pac or Cave or Nature. Right now it's essentially a pure DPS line with baseline stun and a mez, only the DPS is garbage. You'd also have to completely rework the line and change its theme.

Correct - that will be needed in order to make Smite viable and give Albs more variety in group-composition. It is not impossible, look at Earth-Wizards

Thu 9 May 2019 6:40 AM by teiloh

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Thu 9 May 2019 5:34 AM
Correct - that will be needed in order to make Smite viable and give Albs more variety in group-composition. It is not impossible, look at Earth-Wizards

True - Mythic/BS basically dumped a whole bunch of spells into the Earth line.

Thu 9 May 2019 8:24 AM by Duukar

Something needs to be done..

As it stands people only ever go VERY low smite spec.

The PBaoe insta mez is such a low duration that even if its not resisted, and it gets resisted A LOT even by grey pets, It simply does not make sense to give 1 min mez immunity for it - FIVE MINS CD!!!! - USELESS

The PBaoe insta DD does so little dmg its not worth casting other than a super short range interrupt. - 20 sec CD - USELESS

No point spec nuking - USELESS

Base nuke drains power FAST at 1350 range and 3 sec cast - Not good!

Base stun - Good

Once the changes go through anyone foolish enough to spec 36 into smite will be massively underpowered compared to the other realms.

25 sec PBAOE mez on a 5 mins CD.. cmon man.. basically a wasted spell. still useless vs any tank.

146 dmg dd.. 3 sec cast.. still 1350 range....

When a druid is freed up to spec 36 into nature things get SUPER interesting...

Single insta root

AOE insta root

47 second casted aoe root

1 mins 10 second single casted root.

Higher level pet

Anyone who thinks this is balanced is smoking some good crack... Root is >>>>> what boils down to a casted stun any day of the week.