Buffs - Phoenix Freeshard

Mr miyagi said this inspirational quote a long time ago and it still holds up today. Walk on road, hm? Walk left side, safe. Walk right side, safe. Walk middle, sooner or later, [makes squish gesture] get squish just like grape. Here, karate, same thing. Either you karate do "yes", or karate do "no". You karate do "guess so", [makes squish gesture] just like grape. Understand?

I understand and agree with having no buff bots or multi boxing or dual boxing,
Just put in buff merchants in frontier zones and in other pve areas for the cost of coin or
eggs. I been playing this game since thre beginning, buffs is not the reason daoc did not succeed.

If you think buffs with cause people not to play this version of daoc your sadly mistaken, and
If i am wrong i will admit it openly. Give it a try what do you have to lose ?

Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:42 PM by rubaduck

This has been a discussion over and over and over and...... OVER again.

The buff barrels costs feather, they are very easily available on the marked, and contributes positive to the world economy. It's discussed to death and we're just beating a dead horse now, regardless of how you choose to present it.

Fri 25 Jan 2019 8:03 PM by Lordzolio

Alright, sounds like you are against the idea, and that is ok everyone is entitled to have an opinion.

Tue 29 Jan 2019 9:53 AM by Sepplord

Lordzolio wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:27 PM
If you think buffs with cause people not to play this version of daoc your sadly mistaken, and
If i am wrong i will admit it openly. Give it a try what do you have to lose ?

Seriously?
All you are offering to gain is you openly admitting that you were wrong, while having destroyed the population on maybe the last daoc freeshard that will be.

I am not against Buffs per se, but i was literally shaking my head in confusion at the way you are making your case...

> Give it a try what do you have to lose ?

That is your closing argument?

Fri 8 Feb 2019 3:18 PM by Lordzolio

What do you want then Blood ?? HaVE ME WALK DOWN THE STREETS NAKED IN SHAME ?? STONE ME TO DEATH ??? WHAT THEN. I AM TIERD OF PEOPLE MAKING WAY MORE OUT OF SOMETHING THEN FOR WHAT IT IS . ITS JUST BUFFS OMG WE ARE GOING TO RUNE A GAME OMG .. I HAVE BEEN PLAYING DAOC FOR 5 MINUTES AND I KNOW ITS GOING TO CAUSE THE GAME TO SHUTDOWN. I WAS NOT MAKING AN ARGUMENT . I am trying to say its not as big of a deal as some of you make it out to be.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 6:45 PM by Sepplord

If it's not a big Deal, then there is no need to change something

I am not advocating for a change, you are. A change that takes worktime from bigger deals and has no huge potential of benefit (as you have just said yourself)

I also never said i think it would kill the game, i said it would be the worst case.

The amount of people spouting random ideas is currently too high. And many do without any arguments at all just their feeling, or "what could go wrong". That's not how successful operations decide on changes

Sun 10 Feb 2019 12:25 PM by cba

Pots are fine but they don't buff pets so if you are a bd or a summ sm they are useless to you

Tue 12 Mar 2019 10:57 AM by Lordzolio

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Jan 2019 9:53 AM
Lordzolio wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:27 PM
If you think buffs with cause people not to play this version of daoc your sadly mistaken, and
If i am wrong i will admit it openly. Give it a try what do you have to lose ?

Seriously?
All you are offering to gain is you openly admitting that you were wrong, while having destroyed the population on maybe the last daoc freeshard that will be.

I am not against Buffs per se, but i was literally shaking my head in confusion at the way you are making your case...

> Give it a try what do you have to lose ?

That is your closing argument?

I am making a big deal " while having destroyed the population on maybe the last daoc freeshard that will be " If your are not against buff per say then why comment at all then ? What case am I making I think i did with my first post. No buffs dont define this game but if there is not some kind of change this server will be the same as ever other free shard out there. Lets see how server pop is in a year from now,
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"If it's not a big Deal, then there is no need to change something

I am not advocating for a change, you are. A change that takes worktime from bigger deals and has no huge potential of benefit (as you have just said yourself)

I also never said i think it would kill the game, i said it would be the worst case.

The amount of people spouting random ideas is currently too high. And many do without any arguments at all just their feeling, or "what could go wrong". That's not how successful operations decide on changes"

This is not a random idea, and what argument do i have to make its making buffs available to everyone in the RvR zone via. Merchant threw purchase. Live currently has this in place. What or how will this impact the game ? Tell me 5 ways this will impact the game in a bad way. I think you have another agenda here other then what your posting. Please stop harassing me and my posts. You are purposely trying to under mine what I am trying to get across. I see what your are doing, I looked at your profile over a 1000 post 1/3 in this forum alone, and I have read a lot of them and you are attacking people and basically calling them stupid because there reasons and post are not up to your Standards. Do you work for Phoenix? Or u just spend all your time on the forums doing this. Most of us have Lives and jobs/familys. Its people like you why i dont come here or post so thanks a lot. Now your are worried about phoenix running a successful business and my random ideas and spouting off about buffs is not good business practice ?
You say i am all over the place and can not rape your head around what I am saying ???

Tue 12 Mar 2019 11:14 AM by Afuldan

Lordzolio wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 10:57 AM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 29 Jan 2019 9:53 AM
Lordzolio wrote: ↑
Fri 25 Jan 2019 7:27 PM
If you think buffs with cause people not to play this version of daoc your sadly mistaken, and
If i am wrong i will admit it openly. Give it a try what do you have to lose ?

Seriously?
All you are offering to gain is you openly admitting that you were wrong, while having destroyed the population on maybe the last daoc freeshard that will be.

I am not against Buffs per se, but i was literally shaking my head in confusion at the way you are making your case...

> Give it a try what do you have to lose ?

That is your closing argument?

I am making a big deal " while having destroyed the population on maybe the last daoc freeshard that will be " If your are not against buff per say then why comment at all then ? What case am I making I think i did with my first post. No buffs dont define this game but if there is not some kind of change this server will be the same as ever other freeshard out there. Lets see how server pop is in a year from now,

Those skill lines were always “dead for rvr, pretty good for a farm character,” for classic daoc.

The other place takes weeks of /played to get to 50. I’m not grinding for a year at how much time I get to play to get a 50, let alone temped.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 12:04 PM by waffel

Having 2-3 buff pots and 2-3 charged buffs every 10 minutes is incredibly tedious. Is it cheap? Yes. Is it hard? No. Is it required? Yes. Can durations be increased? I don’t see why not

Tue 12 Mar 2019 12:33 PM by cuuchulain79

I imagine some staff wanted buff-bots, some wanted nothing....so the compromise yields 1 group unhappy because everybody is still fully buffed and the other group unhappy because they can only play for a few minutes w/o needing to rebuff. Squished like a grape.

I feel like any player back in the day willing to mess with juggling 10 minute buffs would have just rigged up a 2nd PC...

I fully agree with the 'pick a lane and drive' idea...buffbots or no buffs...

And LOL...I loved the caps post :-)

Tue 12 Mar 2019 12:43 PM by Blitze

If these charges/potions are going to get improved, can my friar get access to an absorb buffer potion so I don’t need to spec enhance at all.

also would it would make sense to add a speed potion and stealth potion (obviously with reduced effictiveness in line to the buff potions) speed 2/3 and 20/30 stealth?

50staff 34rejuv 25parry 7ench(just for insta rupt)
Run with dex/qui and AF charges and end3, str/con, absorb, haste, dmg add/sheild.
Gonna be a beast solo,

Shame for the group friars who will still need 49enhance in a slowly becoming more redundant line just for resists... until they add resist potions...

Hmmmmm

Tue 12 Mar 2019 12:59 PM by Sepplord

Lordzolio wrote: Tell me 5 ways this will impact the game in a bad way.

Tell us 5 ways this will impact the game in a GOOD way

I am not asking for change, you are. All i am asking for, that people that make suggestions actually have reasons and give those reasons. Apparently asking for that makes me "have an agenda". My agenda is to have reasonable suggestions, that people actually thought about instead of having an idea ingame and a corresponding suggestion 30seconds later in the forum.

I'll happily give you 5 reasons why i think THAT would impact the suggestion forum in a good way:

a) people thinking about Pro/Cons of their ideas before posting leads to some realizing that their idea isn't as good as they thought on first sight, and we would have less bad suggestions that just cost time
b) suggestions with reasons make it easier for people "on the fence" to make up their own opinion, especially when both sides are represented factually
c) looking at a suggestions from multiple POVs while making a suggestion improves the overall quality of the suggestion
d) instead of attacking poster and their posting habits (*cough*) the arguments themselves can be discussed
e) good and high quality suggestions inspire other to follow which leads to even better suggestions with even higher quality

PS: no, i didn't cherry pick what to comment on, i just won't give more attention to ad hominem than needed. Think of this as adressal of your accusations: noted

Tue 12 Mar 2019 1:47 PM by Luluko

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 12:59 PM
Lordzolio wrote: Tell me 5 ways this will impact the game in a bad way.

Tell us 5 ways this will impact the game in a GOOD way

I am not asking for change, you are. All i am asking for, that people that make suggestions actually have reasons and give those reasons. Apparently asking for that makes me "have an agenda". My agenda is to have reasonable suggestions, that people actually thought about instead of having an idea ingame and a corresponding suggestion 30seconds later in the forum.

I'll happily give you 5 reasons why i think THAT would impact the suggestion forum in a good way:

a) people thinking about Pro/Cons of their ideas before posting leads to some realizing that their idea isn't as good as they thought on first sight, and we would have less bad suggestions that just cost time
b) suggestions with reasons make it easier for people "on the fence" to make up their own opinion, especially when both sides are represented factually
c) looking at a suggestions from multiple POVs while making a suggestion improves the overall quality of the suggestion
d) instead of attacking poster and their posting habits (*cough*) the arguments themselves can be discussed
e) good and high quality suggestions inspire other to follow which leads to even better suggestions with even higher quality

PS: no, i didn't cherry pick what to comment on, i just won't give more attention to ad hominem than needed. Think of this as adressal of your accusations: noted

I could tell you some reasons why buff npcs wouldnt be so bad.
-no need to port so often out of the frontier to housing or your vault to get pots when you are out of some
-less crashing happening if you dont have to go jordheim where the account vault and the feather merchants are for tears and trading pots to other toons
-alchis would still earn money with invi/pom/healing potions etc
-less inventory micromanagement with pots especially if you are poor and dont want to do epic dungeon raids all the time for tears = more rvr action

I dont think we need the resists buffs from live on buff merchants and they dont need to be as strong as they are on live, the same strength like the combined forces buff potion should be enough that buff classes dont get useless and despite that you would still have to run specc af charge since you also dont get that with the pots. Also I think the gold reward for rvr kills should be doubled or the charges should at least last twice as long with how little money you make from rvr you will always have to do epic dungeon runs or craft/salvage to keep your charges up but thats another topic.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 2:02 PM by Blitze

All your money, time and inventory micromanagement, would be solved completely if they removed pots...
This would also improve hybrids who specc into these buffs. Hybrids are the lowest RP earning subset of Phoenix so perhaps a buff to them is a better option than a buff to potions which nerfs them.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 2:18 PM by Luluko

Blitze wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 2:02 PM
All your money, time and inventory micromanagement, would be solved completely if they removed pots...
This would also improve hybrids who specc into these buffs. Hybrids are the lowest RP earning subset of Phoenix so perhaps a buff to them is a better option than a buff to potions which nerfs them.

I dont really know why hybrids arent played as much probably because of no speed and grps rather take a svg/bm in mid/hib than them, despite that in 1vs1 situations they are ridiculous strong especially since temping is pretty easy without toas here I could even cap str on my cheap shaman temp and get like 50qui in aswell and all the rest is capped and you dont need some low utility artifacts aswell just for a use here. I personally wouldnt mind having buff pots gone completly at least I would save money then

but then you would only see solo bards/wardens and maybe more friars for those masochists which can live with getting zerged 24/7 by fgs if they dont have speed. But assassins would end up on the bottom of the food chain then they rely the most on buffs to do decent damage. But you would certainly see less solo minstrels/skalds and more rangers then. And shamans are already quite common but I dont think smite cleric is good enough that people would solo on that. It could certainly make hib even more popular, I would probably reroll melee ranger then.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 2:24 PM by cuuchulain79

Mr. Miyagi's metaphor is spot on IMO. Because of the staff's decision to make buffing possible, but tedious: a constant drain of attention and enjoyment happens...eventually people get tired and quit...that is the grape being squished. It's a great example of a compromise leading to nobody being happy.

Every RPG, or game where one outfits a character(s) for battle hits a point where "Ahh! Finally ready to go fight!" Got my levels, got my gear...time to go kill Sephiroth. No developer ever made a game where that feeling only lasted 3 minutes, before time to juggle inventory and rebuff...however that seems to be the common compromise in DAoC free shards because of Mythic allowing buffbots 20 years ago.

Sadly, the feeling of "Ahh, ready to go!" Has never been recaptured.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 4:19 PM by FFpheonix

Remove buff pots. No one will have temporary buffs, suck it up the game will play the same.