Brotherhood - Phoenix Freeshard

FIRST AMENDMENT

BLUF
Community to discuss / Staff to decide on implementing 'Brotherhood' which allows a player to create a 'group' and invite other online characters to this 'group' in order to gain XP, even when one or more are offline.

TECH ASPECT
/brotherhood create (creates a brotherhood from the current group)
/brotherhood disband (disbands a member)
/brotherhood quit (leave the brotherhood)
- XP gain is equally injected and distributed within the Brotherhood (details to be listed in XP info after kill) also taking into account the cap XP for the respective level
- when the toon logs in, he gets the XP gain info, how much XP he gained due to the Brotherhood
- Task XP, Item Task XP to be shared as well
- Brotherhoods are permanent and can't be changed (thanks to Jaegaer)
- Members need to be present when the brotherhood is formed (thanks to Jaegaer)
- The brotherhood can only be formed with chars of level 5 or lower (thanks to Jaegaer)
- A char can always leave the brotherhood but can never rejoin (thanks to Jaegaer)
- XP of all chars in the brotherhood is always split with no group bonus applied. In effect all the chars in a brotherhood gain exp at exactly the same pace be they online or offline. (thanks to Jaegaer)

This means that the more active members sacrifice their progress in favor of the less active ones. (thanks to Jaegaer)

Looking forward having your opinion.

M.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 1:59 PM by Sepplord

Sounds to me like a heaven for bombinggrps that keep farming at 50. Not only are they amassing loads of money/feathers/ROGs, now they are also passively levelling their alts while optimizing their farm (instead of having 2-4leachers they go fullman-50-grp and just have their alts in the brotherhood)

Even if limited to characters below 50, it will create attitudes against the most efficient bomb-grp chars, even more than already, aka: why are you playing THAT toon, create something usefull and put your shitchar in the brotherhood...

It is a good idea, on paper, for a group of players that casually play now and then but always in different set-ups. They can all level at an equal pace, no matter who is online at which time, all stay in the same levelrange and can join the levelgroup efficiently whenever they are online. That does sound great, i agree although it might create problem regarding grouping "outsiders" and levelling slower as them ina long session. Levelling on phoenix is pretty punishing regarding levelrange of the group.

All in All i believe the exploitation and abuse of such a feature would outweigh the benefit

Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:19 PM by Durgrim

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 1:59 PM
All in All i believe the exploitation and abuse of such a feature would outweigh the benefit

and if it was technically possible to avoid exploitation? Or reduce it to level 1-45 only?

Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:26 PM by Sepplord

Durgrim wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:19 PM
and if it was technically possible to avoid exploitation? Or reduce it to level 1-45 only?

Sepplord wrote: ...

Even if limited to characters below 50, it will create attitudes against the most efficient bomb-grp chars, even more than already, aka: why are you playing THAT toon, create something usefull and put your shitchar in the brotherhood...
...
it might create problem regarding grouping "outsiders" and levelling slower as them in a long session. Levelling on phoenix is pretty punishing regarding levelrange of the group.

Anything unclear about those parts?

Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:30 PM by Durgrim

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:26 PM
Durgrim wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:19 PM
and if it was technically possible to avoid exploitation? Or reduce it to level 1-45 only?

Sepplord wrote: ...

Even if limited to characters below 50, it will create attitudes against the most efficient bomb-grp chars, even more than already, aka: why are you playing THAT toon, create something usefull and put your shitchar in the brotherhood...
...
it might create problem regarding grouping "outsiders" and levelling slower as them in a long session. Levelling on phoenix is pretty punishing regarding levelrange of the group.

Anything unclear about those parts?

fully understood this post. yes maybe they'd level with the most efficient setup and their toons in BH. So what? I don't see the problem here - up to the community which classes they choose.
the benefit instead for those casuals who don't have that much time during the week to keep pace would be outweighing the aforementioned drawbacks imho (shitchar...)

overall I do not see exploitation when limiting it to lower character levels.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:37 PM by Jaegaer

Levelling up a new twink is a break from playing the same char(s) over and over. Any idea that makes the players choose between something new and something effective is very bad. And this is exactly what your idea boils down to. Leveling twinks via fully kitted PvE specialist chars means instead of playing a new char in PvE and getting to know the char, getting to create a story about him and feeling a sense of accomplishment gets wiped by speed twinking a char via brotherhood.

Effectiveness vs fun/accomplishment.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:42 PM by Durgrim

Jaegaer wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:37 PM
Levelling up a new twink is a break from playing the same char(s) over and over. Any idea that makes the players choose between something new and something effective is very bad. And this is exactly what your idea boils down to. Leveling twinks via fully kitted PvE specialist chars means instead of playing a new char in PvE and getting to know the char, getting to create a story about him and feeling a sense of accomplishment gets wiped by speed twinking a char via brotherhood.

Effectiveness vs fun/accomplishment.

thank you for your response!
yes, you are right with your stated reasons. 100%.
what if the malus for being offline during BH would reduce it to way lesser gain than leveling outside BH?
it should be designed precisely for the sole reason of X casual gamers who have the clear vision of playing together on the same level as a group of friends, to stay in the same levelrange even when someone has couple of days due to other commitments. based on this argument, they take into account the drawback of loosing huge amount of XP just for the reason to keep their buddy up to speed. I am sure with some math/formular the staff could figure out a feasible solution. what do you think?

M

Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:45 PM by jg777

Ashrons Call have an influence on this idea? It appears to be almost in reverse effect but strong ties to it. 😉

This would be more practical if the old Live leveling process were in place. However, I feel as like Sepplord that this will have many abuses and exploit potential all for a few positives. Let’s remember that leveling here has been sped up to considerable lengths- even if one player lags begin his friends, every time he does play he’ll catch up rather quickly. This is one of those ideas that sound great until you begin exploring the ramifications it could (I’d wager would) bring that’ll negatively impact the community. We should want people actively leveling their characters, whatever their level range, and not give an easy route to passively level theirs and others offline and/or passively. This is also why I highly disfavor Power Leveling potential.

I like the intention behind the idea though.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:49 PM by Durgrim

jg777 wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:45 PM
Ashrons Call have an influence on this idea? It appears to be almost in reverse effect but strong ties to it. 😉

This would be more practical if the old Live leveling process were in place. However, I feel as like Sepplord that this will have many abuses and exploit potential all for a few positives. Let’s remember that leveling here has been sped up to considerable lengths- even if one player lags begin his friends, every time he does play he’ll catch up rather quickly. This is one of those ideas that sound great until you begin exploring the ramifications it could (I’d wager would) bring that’ll negatively impact the community. We should want people actively leveling their characters, whatever their level range, and not give an easy route to passively level theirs and others offline and/or passively. This is also why I highly disfavor Power Leveling potential.

I like the intention behind the idea though.

thanks jg777

Actually It has been influenced by Vanguard - Saga of Heroes, where the Brotherhood System / Caravan System got implemented.
Sure, there was nothing such farming huge mob camps over and over like in DAoC, it was designed not to level own toons up, more it got designed for casuals to stay in the 5-level range of teammates, when more than 5 levels difference resulted in no xp gain at all for the lower toon - particularly from your mentioned point you are right - here I can bring a level 1 toon into a 50ish bomb farming group and end up being 45 at the end of the evening.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:59 PM by Jaegaer

Durgrim wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:42 PM
...casual gamers who have the clear vision of playing together on the same level as a group of friends...

Then this would need the following:

Brotherhoods are permanent and can't be changed. All the friends that want to take part, need to be present when the brotherhood is formed. A brotherhood can only be formed with chars of level 5 or lower. A char can always leave the brotherhood but can never rejoin.

Any and all exp of all chars in the brotherhood is always split with no group bonus applied. In effect all the chars in a brotherhood gain exp at exactly the same pace be they online or offline.

This means that the more active members sacrifice their progress in favor of the less active ones.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:01 PM by Durgrim

Jaegaer wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:59 PM
Durgrim wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 2:42 PM
...casual gamers who have the clear vision of playing together on the same level as a group of friends...

Then this would need the following:

Brotherhoods are permanent and can't be changed. All the friends that want to take part, need to be present when the brotherhood is formed. A brotherhood can only be formed with chars of level 5 or lower. A char can always leave the brotherhood but can never rejoin.

Any and all exp of all chars in the brotherhood is always split with no group bonus applied. In effect all the chars in a brotherhood gain exp at exactly the same pace be they online or offline.

This means that the more active members sacrifice their progress in favor of the less active ones.

Very good!
Like this idea and amended the OP

GJ

Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:11 PM by Afuldan

Leveling alts is incredibly easy here, especially if you farm exp items. I’d be incredibly worried that someone would level say a Pac healer (with the most spells in game afaik) and not have a clue on how to play that class.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:17 PM by Durgrim

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:11 PM
Leveling alts is incredibly easy here, especially if you farm exp items. I’d be incredibly worried that someone would level say a Pac healer (with the most spells in game afaik) and not have a clue on how to play that class.

I amended the idea to a more reasonable solution

again: the aim should technically be solved in the way that a casual group can level equally without loosing someone due to being offline for couple of days.
Its NOT designed to bypass leveling at all.
I think with the first amendment there is a good solution.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:22 PM by Afuldan

Roll alts that you play when you aren’t all together, so you have everyone at the same level on those toons.

Granting EXP to an offline character doesn’t seem like a good idea to me. What stops someone from starting one of these, and than no-lifing his character to 50 over two days? Are all of those characters now instant 50’s?

Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:30 PM by Durgrim

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:22 PM
Roll alts that you play when you aren’t all together, so you have everyone at the same level on those toons.

Granting EXP to an offline character doesn’t seem like a good idea to me. What stops someone from starting one of these, and than no-lifing his character to 50 over two days? Are all of those characters now instant 50’s?

this is not a technical or ruleset issue to discuss here. This is a social question and up to the brotherhood members/leader to kick one out or having a friend of them being leveld from 1 to 50 without playing his toon....no interaction from staff side needed.
The only thing to worry about was the abuse. this issue has been addressed.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:46 PM by Zansobar

I'm trying to understand the problem that this solves...but then it creates a whole host of other problems.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:52 PM by Durgrim

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:46 PM
I'm trying to understand the problem that this solves...but then it creates a whole host of other problems.

let us know, as soon as you understood the problem solved by a possible implementation.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 4:38 PM by Afuldan

Durgrim wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:52 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 3:46 PM
I'm trying to understand the problem that this solves...but then it creates a whole host of other problems.

let us know, as soon as you understood the problem solved by a possible implementation.

The solution to this is have characters dedicated to only playing when everyone is able to play, and group up. 8 people all start 8 alts, each alt in the brotherhood, now they do that until every character slot they have is in the brotherhood. Wow, you just made a system that gives everyone a fully leveled alt in every class they could possibly want to play on a realm.

Make alts, only play them together. There is so much potential for abuse that this will never be adopted.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 6:17 PM by defiasbandit

Can the Brotherhood get me to Rank 13 while I go on vacation to Cocomo.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 2:15 PM by Durgrim

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 13 Feb 2019 6:17 PM
Can the Brotherhood get me to Rank 13 while I go on vacation to Cocomo.

I miss a bit of constructiveness in your answer......