Basic Stealth For All melee?

Started 28 May 2019
by Pirhana7
in Suggestions
Now this is more of a what if? than something I would expect to ever happen but this is something I thought would have helped the game for a long time, especially when it always seemed to turn into Darkage of Castalot.

While a lot of people enjoy assassin and archer classes I feel that a lot of people ended up making them just because a non speed visible class was at too big of a disadvantage. A lot of peole want to play the tanks, mdps, and hybrid classes but don't want to spend 10+ minutes to get out in the frontiers, just end up dieing to an 8man group over and over.


For all the things ESO failed at, the one thing I liked was every class could sneak. Now there was a big difference between the basic sneak everyone had and actually enhancing the sneak for assassin play. But with the basic sneak you could be a tank, fighter, or hybrid build and still be able to hide from the enemy zerg and not get run over by enemy groups as long as you were off to the side of the path and the enemy players didn't get too close to you. You could actually solo with these classes! basically It was like you could attack someone, then "hide in the woods" and wait for another fair fight. Of coarse enemy that excelled at sneak could find you easy and get the jump on you.

That's what I would have always really liked to see in DAOC. More melee classes get the option to spec a little bit into stealth so they could hide from 8mans and zergs. Maybe something like max stealth 15, then with RRs you could have something like 15+15 (30) that would be good enough to let you hide way off the road but still be easily found if you got ran over. Sins and archers would still have a huge stealth advantage over you and being able to see you. Now I know some melee classes like Thanes and VW would be questionable with ranged casting after hiding but most melee classes would have the ability to survive out on the battle field if they played smart and knew when and where to stealth. If something like this ever happened you would see a lot more melee out there in solo and small man and less pure stealth, pure speed, and caster speed classes in solo and small man.
Wed 29 May 2019 12:27 AM by ExcretusMaximus
The server would be more healthy overall if they removed stealth completely.

Leave the classes, augment them a bit if necessary, but the amount of stealthers on this server is completely unhealthy.
Wed 29 May 2019 12:44 AM by Kappu
These are both the worst ideas I've ever heard.....
Wed 29 May 2019 7:15 PM by Pirhana7
Kappu wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 12:44 AM
These are both the worst ideas I've ever heard.....

Please explain how giving more melee classes a basic stealth would be a bad idea?? It worked in ESO and all it would do in DAOC is open the doors for more classes people would play in the solo / small man game because they had an ability that would keep them from getting ran over by 8man groups and zergs.
Wed 29 May 2019 7:20 PM by Pirhana7
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 12:27 AM
The server would be more healthy overall if they removed stealth completely.

Leave the classes, augment them a bit if necessary, but the amount of stealthers on this server is completely unhealthy.

Removing stealth doesn't help the problem of limited classes being the only option to avoid 8mans and zergs. This is the reason why we have so many sins out there. Give other melee classes the ability to hide from 8mans and zergs and you have more classes out there.


Also removing stealth completely would remove some of the excitement and fear from the game. Not knowing if a stealth is watching you is what makes it so intense out there. Remove that and it dulls down the game.
Thu 30 May 2019 11:46 AM by Kappu
I'll start by saying this isn't ESO.

When you roll a class you know that soloing will either be difficult or somewhat difficult. This game isn't and never was designed for that it just had the possibility to do.

Giving every class some stealth takes the whole playing a sneak dynamic out of the game and it'd be impossible to balance.

Don't go suggesting things because you rolled a class and wanted to play the game a certain way, but then found out it isn't easy and you get steam rolled by full groups. If you don't like it roll a sneak.
Thu 30 May 2019 8:05 PM by Pirhana7
Kappu wrote:
Thu 30 May 2019 11:46 AM
I'll start by saying this isn't ESO.

When you roll a class you know that soloing will either be difficult or somewhat difficult. This game isn't and never was designed for that it just had the possibility to do.

Giving every class some stealth takes the whole playing a sneak dynamic out of the game and it'd be impossible to balance.

Don't go suggesting things because you rolled a class and wanted to play the game a certain way, but then found out it isn't easy and you get steam rolled by full groups. If you don't like it roll a sneak.

First: I never said all classes, just melee. Have you seen how many people play Heros, BMs, War, Zerks, Arms, and Mersc? Do a /server info these classes are at the bottom of the list. A lot of people do want to play them, but they don't want to get ran over by 8mans and zerks repeatedly in outnumbered or out speeded fights they have zero chances of surviving or getting away from. SO all these players are forced to play assassins even tho they don't want to be an assassin. But stealth is required if you don't have speed 5.

I play a Warden and a NS (a NS because I like stealth openers and assassin play) so this doesn't even apply to me. I just want to see other classes running around solo besides assassin, archers, skalds, mins, and sorcs. Giving the 6 melee classas a BASIC stealth ability of 15 or so would greatly help in getting them out there competing because they could actually have a chance to avoid those 8mans and zergs and stop donating free rps to them. This would not be level 50 stealth, 15+RR enough to hide far away as long as you stealthed before you were seen. There would be no balancing needed the only thing they are gaining is the ability to avoid an 1v8+ unwinnable fight. This would not hurt the actual stealth classes, there play styles would still be there. if anything it would cause more 1v1 fights for stealth classes and all melee. I don't know how anyone could be against this?????
Fri 31 May 2019 11:43 AM by Kappu
No I don't really want to pop another class outside of the current Stealthers...... You think it'd be healthy or even worth while for a SB popping a BM..... To get slammed and annihilated in a few seconds. No thanks.

This argument as I've previously said is terrible.
Fri 31 May 2019 12:38 PM by Luluko
could work if you see them as a stealther from 1k range at least and everyone else from 500range but they would have to alter the appearance when you are stealthed so you can make out what class it is like Kappu said attacking a stealthed bm as an assassins is 100% death here without purge/vanish up.

But I also liked it in ESO it was one of the few things it did better than daoc even tho cyrodil was way too big and it had no speed classes and getting arround was annoying at least when I played it a few years ago. If ESO had the daoc cc/postional/reaction styles and also the rp system and also the amount of qbar slots daoc had I prolly would have sticked arround there but those few abilities and the combat was too mediocre.
Fri 31 May 2019 1:03 PM by Saroi
Pirhana7 wrote:
Thu 30 May 2019 8:05 PM
Kappu wrote:
Thu 30 May 2019 11:46 AM
I'll start by saying this isn't ESO.

When you roll a class you know that soloing will either be difficult or somewhat difficult. This game isn't and never was designed for that it just had the possibility to do.

Giving every class some stealth takes the whole playing a sneak dynamic out of the game and it'd be impossible to balance.

Don't go suggesting things because you rolled a class and wanted to play the game a certain way, but then found out it isn't easy and you get steam rolled by full groups. If you don't like it roll a sneak.

First: I never said all classes, just melee. Have you seen how many people play Heros, BMs, War, Zerks, Arms, and Mersc? Do a /server info these classes are at the bottom of the list. A lot of people do want to play them, but they don't want to get ran over by 8mans and zerks repeatedly in outnumbered or out speeded fights they have zero chances of surviving or getting away from. SO all these players are forced to play assassins even tho they don't want to be an assassin. But stealth is required if you don't have speed 5.

I play a Warden and a NS (a NS because I like stealth openers and assassin play) so this doesn't even apply to me. I just want to see other classes running around solo besides assassin, archers, skalds, mins, and sorcs. Giving the 6 melee classas a BASIC stealth ability of 15 or so would greatly help in getting them out there competing because they could actually have a chance to avoid those 8mans and zergs and stop donating free rps to them. This would not be level 50 stealth, 15+RR enough to hide far away as long as you stealthed before you were seen. There would be no balancing needed the only thing they are gaining is the ability to avoid an 1v8+ unwinnable fight. This would not hurt the actual stealth classes, there play styles would still be there. if anything it would cause more 1v1 fights for stealth classes and all melee. I don't know how anyone could be against this?????

If you walk like in Hadrian or Odin were there is not that much action you see enough solo people. In Hadrian I have seen solo champions and Valewalkers running around mmg - mpk. I also have seen solo Paladin or Reavers there. By hmg in Hadrians I had a 1v1 vs a Merc yesterday. It is harder but still possible to go solo as those classes you just need to avoid Emain were the big zerg is. Also with the porters now it makes it easier for you to dodge all the people camping your Mile Gate or Portal keep.

I disagree with there would be no balancing needed. Like you are saying those classes would be able to hide a bit and you are also more prepared if you get attacked, especially by a stealther. Also duo to the slower walking speed you would be facing him directly. That is a part which you do not have in realmspeed + running and need a bit more reaction time to hit your slam. (Since the stealther can be able to hit you from the back while you are turning)

Races like luri which are small would be better for melee classes since you can already better hide and making them even more sneaky. Or if you just stand behind a tree and let someone come to you, till they are able to see you you can run towards them and till they react you are near them. This hurts especially if you are a caster. Slam and then you are dead.

So you would have the chance to sneak up on someone and still have your more health, better armor + block/parry and high cc reduction? I see no balance in that.

A normal caster would have like in 90% of the fights no chance anymore. And then they will whine and what is the next solution? Give them stealth too so they can avoid the stealthing tanks to go solo?

People are already complaining about the actual stealthers. I think giving more classes stealth is really not a good idea.
Fri 31 May 2019 1:18 PM by dbeattie71
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Wed 29 May 2019 12:27 AM
The server would be more healthy overall if they removed stealth completely.

Leave the classes, augment them a bit if necessary, but the amount of stealthers on this server is completely unhealthy.

Having two stealth classes, I agree with that. Invisibility is cheese.
Fri 31 May 2019 2:53 PM by Cadebrennus
Simple solution to cheese mode invisibility (aka stealth) in DAOC (since we're so deep in custom mode already)

1) Make moving in stealth cost endurance that is not affected by LW/Tireless/Invig pots.
2) Make standing still in stealth prevent any endurance recovery.
Fri 31 May 2019 7:37 PM by Pirhana7
Kappu wrote:
Fri 31 May 2019 11:43 AM
No I don't really want to pop another class outside of the current Stealthers...... You think it'd be healthy or even worth while for a SB popping a BM..... To get slammed and annihilated in a few seconds. No thanks.

This argument as I've previously said is terrible.

Guys... you have high level stealth stuck in your heads........Im talking about low limited stealth.... 15+10 (25) or even 15+20 (35) at RR10 stealth is not that good, it would be barely enough to get by hiding and not be seen by visible classes. They would really need to be way off to the side of a path not to be seen by visibles. As a stealthier with 50 stealth and the MOS skill you are going to see these BMs and Heros from a long ways away. You will know exactly who they are...… Choose to fight them or not, the same way you do now when you see them running down the path.... But see them standing stealthed from a big distance would actually make it easier to prepare and land perf. You guys just seem not to want to have more fights with other tanks or Mdps classes.... Which is what the game actually needs.
Fri 31 May 2019 7:41 PM by Kappu
What your talking about is a garbage idea......

IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE GAME WITH STEALTH ROLL A SNEAK!

We don't need a bunch of people running around looking like dog shit with low stealth because they want to play the game a way it wasn't intended for their class......
Fri 31 May 2019 8:10 PM by Hejjin
As a Friar I believe the ability to sneak would be overpowered for my class, and for a number of others, I cannot see any upside to this suggestion at all.
This topic is locked and you can't reply.

Return to Suggestions or the latest topics