Hi All, have played DAOC since 4 days before its launch. Have experimented with live and many shards and all three realms here. IMO Phoenix has a keen eye in balancing 8man play style, there is rock paper and scissors imbalances for sure but the net is very close. However, my opinion differs when it comes to Battle Group style RvR, they do not have a keen eye and large imbalances appear. Please welcome to read my attached analysis. Do your own thinking, perhaps there are other ideas that can help resolve the obvious hyper-imbalances to this style of play. A person needs are different from their wants, likewise the needs of a good game (one that lasts the test of time) are different than the sum of the participants wants. - Odin/Oadin I could not find a way to attach a word file to this Forum, sorry for the cut and paste.
UUGE Battle Group Specific RvR Imbalances in Phoenix
Phoenix has had a good eye toward 8man man balance. This topic excludes this subject and focuses on what they do not have a keen eye toward. Realm verses Realm balance particularly at BG scale. Many things change at this scale. Interrupts become far more important than CC. Hitting unseen objects through walls and doors far more important.
Scoring: Highly Favors 4, Moderately Favors 2, Neutral 1, Moderately Unfavors -1, Highly Unfavors -3
Door Damage: Highly Favors Albion
Reason: Theurgist can add door dps of about ½ a ram each. No other realm has this
Due to the recent Limit of 2 Rams this bonus now doubles or even triples the door destruction speed of any other realm. Want to test or balance this fast, simply make it so Theurg pets can no longer hit doors.
Score: Albion 4, Hibernia 1, Midgard 1
Guard Elimination & Control: Highly Favors Albion, Moderately Favors Hibernia, Moderately Disfavors Midgard
Reason: Albion and Hibernia both have significant advantages with controlling and eliminating PvE mobs. Un-targetable to mobs (due to lack of disease and MA) Necros, Spam pet classes, High Level Pets, Multiple and Overlapping Control, Near sight in a RvR spec line.
Score: Albion 4, Hibernia 2, Midgard -1
Siege Caster Utility: Moderately Favors Albion over Hib, Hibernia is moderately favored vrs Mid
Reason: Albion’s near sight in an RvR favored spec line, Albion AoE DPS and AoE DPS Snare in an RvR spec line, Albion's debuff of same dmg type is 15 seconds verses Hib and Mid 8seconds. GTAOE is key to interrupting casters and healers inside towers and keeps. All FIVE of these significant advantages are combined into a single class and spec – Albion’s Earth Wizard. Pets chase through walls and Theurgs can spam a mobile pet.
Hib’s Baseline Stuns for most casters.
Score: Albion 4, Hibernia 2, Midgard 1
BG Field Caster Utility: Moderately Unfavors Midgard
Reason: Animist and Theurg are spam pet classes, the bone dancer was too powerful in 8man so it was nerfed at least twice and its pets do not cc or lock down.
Score: Albion 1, Hibernia 1, Midgard -1
BG Wall Invasion: Hibernia is Moderately Unfavored
Reason: Albion and Midgard have 3 classes that climb, Hibernia has two
Score: Albion 1, Midgard 1, Hibernia -1
Super Spam Pet Classes: Midgard is Highly Unfavored
Reason: Both Animist and theurges can have have 15+ pets, the bonedancer the mid Super pet class has 1 and 2 blue sub pets. The raw dps and utility for Alb and Hib are far superior better.
Score: Albion 1, Hibernia 1, Midgard -3
AoE RA Spread: Midgard is Moderately Unfavored
Reason: Static tempest, Negative Maelstorm, and TWF are more likely found in Albion and Hibernia BGs as they are available to more highly played classes in these realms.
Score: Albion 1, Hibernia 1, Midgard -1
MDPs in BG: Moderately favors Midgard
Reason: Berserker DPS verses peers, Savage DPS verses peers, Troll Strength verses Peers, Skald MDPs vrs Peers
Score: Midgard 2, Albion 1, Hibernia 1
Support Role in BG: Moderately favors Hib
Reason: PvP support wardens are the bubble class, the other two realms use their bubble spec in PvE. Bards heal and are better support than minstrel and skald.
Score: Hibernia 2, Albion 1, Midgard 1
Siege Equipment: Even for all realms
Tanks Role in BG: Even for all Realms
Hybrid Role in BG: Even for all Realms
Net Battle Group Specific RvR Imbalances Highly Favor Albion & Moderately Unfavor Midgard
Net Battle Group Balance RvR Scores
Albion a whopping +18
Hibernia a solid +10
Midgard a miserable -2
With a 4 Hour Timer if you want to play RvR in Battle Groups, Play for Keeps, get and retain relics, Farm Zergs trying to retake a keep, win BG fights, simply join the Albion Zerg. When you want to go play 8man just seek out your favorite realm.
Recommendation: Try to even out some of the important factors of Battle Group RvR.
Ideas:
Balance the BG specific RvR Utility of the Earth wizard with peer class specs in each of the other two realms, either boost other realms spec utility up or take this one down or both.
Increasing ram limit to 3 or 4, reduces the theurg door dmg multiplier. Or simply make it so theurg pets cannot hit doors. Fast and easy gives everyone the same dreary 20-30 minutes to open a keep.
Let Bone Dancers Spam and Fire and Forget their Small Pets just like a theurge
Let another class in Hibernia only climb
Make sure all realms have the same class count of AoE Ras
The small favoritism can be ignored if on balance the realms have a net BG balance score about the same.
UUGE Battle Group Specific RvR Imbalances in Phoenix
Phoenix has had a good eye toward 8man man balance. This topic excludes this subject and focuses on what they do not have a keen eye toward. Realm verses Realm balance particularly at BG scale. Many things change at this scale. Interrupts become far more important than CC. Hitting unseen objects through walls and doors far more important.
Scoring: Highly Favors 4, Moderately Favors 2, Neutral 1, Moderately Unfavors -1, Highly Unfavors -3
Door Damage: Highly Favors Albion
Reason: Theurgist can add door dps of about ½ a ram each. No other realm has this
Due to the recent Limit of 2 Rams this bonus now doubles or even triples the door destruction speed of any other realm. Want to test or balance this fast, simply make it so Theurg pets can no longer hit doors.
Score: Albion 4, Hibernia 1, Midgard 1
Guard Elimination & Control: Highly Favors Albion, Moderately Favors Hibernia, Moderately Disfavors Midgard
Reason: Albion and Hibernia both have significant advantages with controlling and eliminating PvE mobs. Un-targetable to mobs (due to lack of disease and MA) Necros, Spam pet classes, High Level Pets, Multiple and Overlapping Control, Near sight in a RvR spec line.
Score: Albion 4, Hibernia 2, Midgard -1
Siege Caster Utility: Moderately Favors Albion over Hib, Hibernia is moderately favored vrs Mid
Reason: Albion’s near sight in an RvR favored spec line, Albion AoE DPS and AoE DPS Snare in an RvR spec line, Albion's debuff of same dmg type is 15 seconds verses Hib and Mid 8seconds. GTAOE is key to interrupting casters and healers inside towers and keeps. All FIVE of these significant advantages are combined into a single class and spec – Albion’s Earth Wizard. Pets chase through walls and Theurgs can spam a mobile pet.
Hib’s Baseline Stuns for most casters.
Score: Albion 4, Hibernia 2, Midgard 1
BG Field Caster Utility: Moderately Unfavors Midgard
Reason: Animist and Theurg are spam pet classes, the bone dancer was too powerful in 8man so it was nerfed at least twice and its pets do not cc or lock down.
Score: Albion 1, Hibernia 1, Midgard -1
BG Wall Invasion: Hibernia is Moderately Unfavored
Reason: Albion and Midgard have 3 classes that climb, Hibernia has two
Score: Albion 1, Midgard 1, Hibernia -1
Super Spam Pet Classes: Midgard is Highly Unfavored
Reason: Both Animist and theurges can have have 15+ pets, the bonedancer the mid Super pet class has 1 and 2 blue sub pets. The raw dps and utility for Alb and Hib are far superior better.
Score: Albion 1, Hibernia 1, Midgard -3
AoE RA Spread: Midgard is Moderately Unfavored
Reason: Static tempest, Negative Maelstorm, and TWF are more likely found in Albion and Hibernia BGs as they are available to more highly played classes in these realms.
Score: Albion 1, Hibernia 1, Midgard -1
MDPs in BG: Moderately favors Midgard
Reason: Berserker DPS verses peers, Savage DPS verses peers, Troll Strength verses Peers, Skald MDPs vrs Peers
Score: Midgard 2, Albion 1, Hibernia 1
Support Role in BG: Moderately favors Hib
Reason: PvP support wardens are the bubble class, the other two realms use their bubble spec in PvE. Bards heal and are better support than minstrel and skald.
Score: Hibernia 2, Albion 1, Midgard 1
Siege Equipment: Even for all realms
Tanks Role in BG: Even for all Realms
Hybrid Role in BG: Even for all Realms
Net Battle Group Specific RvR Imbalances Highly Favor Albion & Moderately Unfavor Midgard
Net Battle Group Balance RvR Scores
Albion a whopping +18
Hibernia a solid +10
Midgard a miserable -2
With a 4 Hour Timer if you want to play RvR in Battle Groups, Play for Keeps, get and retain relics, Farm Zergs trying to retake a keep, win BG fights, simply join the Albion Zerg. When you want to go play 8man just seek out your favorite realm.
Recommendation: Try to even out some of the important factors of Battle Group RvR.
Ideas:
Balance the BG specific RvR Utility of the Earth wizard with peer class specs in each of the other two realms, either boost other realms spec utility up or take this one down or both.
Increasing ram limit to 3 or 4, reduces the theurg door dmg multiplier. Or simply make it so theurg pets cannot hit doors. Fast and easy gives everyone the same dreary 20-30 minutes to open a keep.
Let Bone Dancers Spam and Fire and Forget their Small Pets just like a theurge
Let another class in Hibernia only climb
Make sure all realms have the same class count of AoE Ras
The small favoritism can be ignored if on balance the realms have a net BG balance score about the same.