Archers weakness' - Phoenix Freeshard

lol no thanks @ all this trash.

Thu 12 Dec 2019 6:40 AM by Lollie

I thought doggy got a boost in damage a few patches ago?
Also insta gib abilities are a serious no no, no matter how small the chance is. Archers do need something (and it's been discussed many a time in these boards). Will it ever happen though? Wouldn't hold my breath

Thu 12 Dec 2019 7:59 AM by Sepplord

Shortee wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 1:10 AM
Maybe also give bow classes something like a 'headshot'. Where a small percentage of the time, based on bow skill, an instant death is accomplished by bow. After all, in RL, if i shoot you in the head with a bow - guess what....you're dead. Just some ideas to improve the quality of life for the weaker classes.

Now that's some quality game design

Sorry, but an instant death procc on any class is a bad idea...
On a ranged invisible class it is outrageous

And considering the amount of archers around, i somehow doubt that they really are that weak. Otherwise people would not play them as much

Thu 12 Dec 2019 8:27 AM by Nunki

Shortee wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 1:10 AM
So, the vast majority of players on this server agree that scouts and hunters are weak classes. I cannot speak from a scout stand point but i can from a hunters. We are not important enough to groups, therefore, a lot of us solo a lot of the time. I have posted in the forums for these classes to be fixed but no one seems to care that the QoL playing a weak class is very, very low. Maybe some changes can be made like higher armorfactor buff - we go down really easy being vulnerable to slash and running into Infis, NS and rangers a lot. Maybe also give bow classes something like a 'headshot'. Where a small percentage of the time, based on bow skill, an instant death is accomplished by bow. After all, in RL, if i shoot you in the head with a bow - guess what....you're dead. Just some ideas to improve the quality of life for the weaker classes.

Hunter is quite balanced on Phoenix.
If specced and played well, it is a totally playable and valid class.
No Stealther class is important for groupplay (not talking about Minstrel obviously).
If you want to play in a Group, create a stealther small-men and roam OR build a group with other hunters, zerg surf and assist Volley the hell out of your enemy.
In case that you want help after your flame. What is you spec? What is your playstyle? Do you have all the healitems in your temp you need?

As long as you have Purge ready and don't get Numb baited, Scout is heavily underpowered.

Thu 12 Dec 2019 3:22 PM by omicidi

Shortee wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 1:10 AM
So, the vast majority of players on this server agree that scouts and hunters are weak classes. I cannot speak from a scout stand point but i can from a hunters. We are not important enough to groups, therefore, a lot of us solo a lot of the time. I have posted in the forums for these classes to be fixed but no one seems to care that the QoL playing a weak class is very, very low. Maybe some changes can be made like higher armorfactor buff - we go down really easy being vulnerable to slash and running into Infis, NS and rangers a lot. Maybe also give bow classes something like a 'headshot'. Where a small percentage of the time, based on bow skill, an instant death is accomplished by bow. After all, in RL, if i shoot you in the head with a bow - guess what....you're dead. Just some ideas to improve the quality of life for the weaker classes.

I think first things first, addressing the x class is weak because groups won’t group me mentality is slightly off.

Every class and spec is situational. Some classes are stronger by building off other classes. When we’re talking about a full on roaming group and you want to play a scout; what value does a scout add better than a reaver/merc/arms/paladin for a visible group? Nothing.

So I mean people want to play sub-optimal specs/classes in a group, doesn’t mean they’re bad, it just means there’s another class/spec suited for the slot; ie cave shaman, I think it’s a situationally powerful class//however having better buffs enhances everyone else. I’m personally fond of the mana mentalist; situationally they literally destroy power bars in keep fights; however, in open field fights they are weak.

So then we look at the hunter. The pet brings a lot of utility. Then we look at what it means to group and add more hunters. I think the hunter pet is solid personally. Now let’s add two hunters, now three hunters. All of a sudden these pets become overwhelming.

When looking at a scout, maybe perhaps the scout by itself is weak; now we’re looking at group dynamics when adding in minstrels and infs. That 9 second stun and ranged dps seems pretty op when you add a minstrel to the mix.

Buffing a scout would make an already strong stealth group insane.

Sat 14 Dec 2019 12:46 AM by easytoremember

Instant kill chance isn't going to happen but 50-100% damage crits go for it

Sat 14 Dec 2019 3:54 AM by Azrael

Shortee wrote: ↑
Thu 12 Dec 2019 1:10 AM
After all, in RL, if i shoot you in the head with a bow - guess what....you're dead. Just some ideas to improve the quality of life for the weaker classes.

hilarious. Would also vote that every big troll can stomp small luris to death with his bare feet. xD Would be the same in RL.

Sat 21 Dec 2019 1:24 PM by Siouxsie

Suggest all you want.. I doubt we hunters will get anything decent.
Pet should have snare and disease proc, and let hunters charm up to lvl 50 pets and allow ANY mob to be charmed.
Bow damage sucks.
Melee defense sucks.
Assassins laugh at you as they swap poisoned weapons and knock off 500-600 of your hitpoints and viper ticks you down to nothing.
Minstrels laugh at you as they kite away and send their overpowered Ellyl pet to heal them or hit you for 230.

It's all a giant joke. Class balance? WTF is that? It doesn't exist.

Sat 21 Dec 2019 1:50 PM by chois

just want remedy on archer classes and will be ok

Mon 23 Dec 2019 1:53 PM by inoeth

agree on scouts being very weak, but hunters are not. actually hunters are very solid since the pet got buffed and stealth detection was changed.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 2:24 AM by daytonchambers

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Sat 21 Dec 2019 1:24 PM
Suggest all you want.. I doubt we hunters will get anything decent.
Pet should have snare and disease proc, and let hunters charm up to lvl 50 pets and allow ANY mob to be charmed.
Bow damage sucks.
Melee defense sucks.
Assassins laugh at you as they swap poisoned weapons and knock off 500-600 of your hitpoints and viper ticks you down to nothing.
Minstrels laugh at you as they kite away and send their overpowered Ellyl pet to heal them or hit you for 230.

It's all a giant joke. Class balance? WTF is that? It doesn't exist.

You got evade 3 here vs two from live at this patch point, and the sprinting dog bites for the same value as a lifebane tick with zero chance to purge it while adding an attacker to reduce your enemies defenses.

Bow damage isn't that great across the board for all archers, this is not a problem unique to hunters. The HP boost compounded this issue, and none of us have quickcast or a debuffer to amplify our ranged damage like a caster has access to. The price we pay for being invisible I guess.

I do agree that pet charm needs to be higher level, at the very least up to a 44 pet so that any blue is available, but being able to charm any mob type (like humanoids) might be a bit much. I also think that there should be charmable animals out there that can stealth with the hunter, if you can find them in the frontier.

TL;DR Hunters have flaws like every other class but they are pretty damn solid on Phoenix. If Mid wasn't already as overpopulated as it is I would be inclined to play mine as a main char.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 4:55 AM by gotwqqd

I played a hunter to 50
I died pretty much to everything (mostly stealth) that I encountered.
But many fights were very very close
And I pretty much was inexperienced using the pet, had low RR, had random gear with massive holes

My guess is they are pretty silolid if you template and figure out the nuances of character
I think I was 30 bow, 36 stealth, 44 spear 42BC

Thu 26 Dec 2019 7:55 AM by Pao

Scout needs love. Everyone is temped here, now extra high hp and bow is not working as intended. Its impossible to snipe anything down. Melee fight you dead every time. Maybe give scouts more skill points that would be a slight buff that wont break the game.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 9:20 AM by Cadebrennus

The main weakness that Archers have is that they don't have either PD or MoS. They should have one or the other. An Archer without either RA (not both) is like an Assassin without Viper or MoP.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 10:14 AM by Pao

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 9:20 AM
The main weakness that Archers have is that they don't have either PD or MoS. They should have one or the other. An Archer without either RA (not both) is like an Assassin without Viper or MoP.

PD makes ranger too strong. MoS would be better since it just give you a better opener but yo still gimp in melee.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:03 AM by asnusia

According to this table https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Table scout should be in a higher melee class then ranger and assassins, this is implemented here ?

Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:40 AM by Pao

Pretty sure its lower. The scout has low dmg even with high weapon spec.

Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:25 PM by Cadebrennus

Pao wrote: ↑
Thu 26 Dec 2019 11:40 AM
Pretty sure its lower. The scout has low dmg even with high weapon spec.

It's been a long time but last I tested base weapon spec to base weapon spec (all one handed) Scout, Hunter, and Ranger were equal

Fri 27 Dec 2019 10:48 AM by Siouxsie

If Phoenix implemented the bow damage table properly at factor 22.. we should be seeing crit shots for 900-1000, and regular shots for 450-500. Not this 700 crit shot, 350 regular shot nonsense.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 11:12 AM by

gruenesschaf

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 10:48 AM
If Phoenix implemented the bow damage table properly at factor 22.. we should be seeing crit shots for 900-1000, and regular shots for 450-500. Not this 700 crit shot, 350 regular shot nonsense.

And where do you take those numbers from? 900 - 1000 crit shot, aka 450 - 500 normal shot, is bb buffed against targets without spec af and either some + archery damage, relics or target not having full resists.

BM, hero are both at damage table 22, tests on pendragon show a max damage difference of +- 1 - 2 (aka rounding) between the combat log and what our formula outputs when using the char and target stats (including the slightly higher inherent af factor on pend).

test output hero vs druid, observed is from pend combat logs, first line (avg, min, max) is our formula output:

unbuffed, 1 + 15 lw
avg: 115.25, min: 91.14, max: 140.37
Observed minimum damage: 91, we got 100.15% of that, rounded 100.00%
Observed maximum damage: 140, we got 100.27% of that, rounded 100.00%

unbuffed, 50 + 15 lw
avg: 182.01, min: 152.89, max: 212.35
Observed minimum damage: 155, we got 98.64% of that, rounded 98.06%
Observed maximum damage: 213, we got 99.69% of that, rounded 99.53%

buffed, 50 + 15 lw
avg: 243.26, min: 204.34, max: 283.81
Observed minimum damage: 205, we got 99.68% of that, rounded 99.51%
Observed maximum damage: 285, we got 99.58% of that, rounded 99.30%

Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:46 PM by Cadebrennus

Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 12:34 PM
gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 11:12 AM
Siouxsie wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 10:48 AM
If Phoenix implemented the bow damage table properly at factor 22.. we should be seeing crit shots for 900-1000, and regular shots for 450-500. Not this 700 crit shot, 350 regular shot nonsense.

And where do you take those numbers from? 900 - 1000 crit shot, aka 450 - 500 normal shot, is bb buffed against targets without spec af and either some + archery damage, relics or target not having full resists.

BM, hero are both at damage table 22, tests on pendragon show a max damage difference of +- 1 - 2 (aka rounding) between the combat log and what our formula outputs when using the char and target stats (including the slightly higher inherent af factor on pend).

test output hero vs druid, observed is from pend combat logs, first line (avg, min, max) is our formula output:

unbuffed, 1 + 15 lw
avg: 115.25, min: 91.14, max: 140.37
Observed minimum damage: 91, we got 100.15% of that, rounded 100.00%
Observed maximum damage: 140, we got 100.27% of that, rounded 100.00%

unbuffed, 50 + 15 lw
avg: 182.01, min: 152.89, max: 212.35
Observed minimum damage: 155, we got 98.64% of that, rounded 98.06%
Observed maximum damage: 213, we got 99.69% of that, rounded 99.53%

buffed, 50 + 15 lw
avg: 243.26, min: 204.34, max: 283.81
Observed minimum damage: 205, we got 99.68% of that, rounded 99.51%
Observed maximum damage: 285, we got 99.58% of that, rounded 99.30%

Why are you using the stats from live? Live is a different beast!

Because they use stuff from Live when it's convenient for them. Except when it isn't convenient then they say this isn't Live.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:28 PM by

gruenesschaf

Siouxsie wrote: Why are you using the stats from live? Live is a different beast!

Cadebrennus wrote: Because they use stuff from Live when it's convenient for them. Except when it isn't convenient then they say this isn't Live.

I really don't care for repeating myself in hundreds of threads for this on this exact topic, either put up some evidence backing your claim that the formulas changed in some drastic way (hint you won't find any because they are still the same) or just stop.

The melee formula contains only very few constants and aside from those the only changes made are additional multipliers at the end to support new stats like toa / style damage or mythical dps.

The prime example of one such constant is the inherent AF of players, that was at some point increased on live. As long as you don't have any of the stats used by the new multipliers the formula is still exactly the same, if you then go one step further and adjust the inherent AF, which we did, you will even receive the correct outputs. That is why for many things, including melee damage as well as cast damage, tests on live have merit as nothing really changed as long as you account for toa stats etc.

I don't even really understand why people would think they must have changed these basic formulas when live introduced lots of new stats that precisely do whatever change they wanted to see. Let's say their goal is to increase damage by 10%, instead of changing the existing formula to account for that (for example giving stats more weight, reducing the inherent af, reducing how af works or whatever), they opted for +toa damage (with the added benefit of keeping people busy by forcing them to get gear that includes that instead) which is literally just a * (1 + stat * 0.01) at the end of the old result, literally no reason at all to touch anything that came before it.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:54 PM by Cadebrennus

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:28 PM
Siouxsie wrote: Why are you using the stats from live? Live is a different beast!

Cadebrennus wrote: Because they use stuff from Live when it's convenient for them. Except when it isn't convenient then they say this isn't Live.

I really don't care for repeating myself in hundreds of threads for this on this exact topic, either put up some evidence backing your claim that the formulas changed in some drastic way (hint you won't find any because they are still the same) or just stop.

The melee formula contains only very few constants and aside from those the only changes made are additional multipliers at the end to support new stats like toa / style damage or mythical dps.

The prime example of one such constant is the inherent AF of players, that was at some point increased on live. As long as you don't have any of the stats used by the new multipliers the formula is still exactly the same, if you then go one step further and adjust the inherent AF, which we did, you will even receive the correct outputs. That is why for many things, including melee damage as well as cast damage, tests on live have merit as nothing really changed as long as you account for toa stats etc.

I don't even really understand why people would think they must have changed these basic formulas when live introduced lots of new stats that precisely do whatever change they wanted to see. Let's say their goal is to increase damage by 10%, instead of changing the existing formula to account for that (for example giving stats more weight, reducing the inherent af, reducing how af works or whatever), they opted for +toa damage (with the added benefit of keeping people busy by forcing them to get gear that includes that instead) which is literally just a * (1 + stat * 0.01) at the end of the old result, literally no reason at all to touch anything that came before it.

Sorry dude, I'm not talking about specific formulas, I'm talking about the fact that sometimes you guys follow Live, and sometimes you don't. Sometimes your answer is "because it's like that on Live" and sometimes your answer is "because we're Phoenix, not Live". One good example are Archer RAs. Why do they not get the OF or NF spread of RAs? All other classes do. They have neither PD nor MoS. The weak-ass "baked-in" MoS argument just doesn't cut it dude. It needs to be a speccable RA or Archers need to have PD.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 4:41 PM by Highfather17

Scouts need something. They are the worst class on the server probably.

There's no reason to play them ATM.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 5:36 PM by

gruenesschaf

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:54 PM
Sorry dude, I'm not talking about specific formulas, I'm talking about the fact that sometimes you guys follow Live, and sometimes you don't. Sometimes your answer is "because it's like that on Live" and sometimes your answer is "because we're Phoenix, not Live". One good example are Archer RAs. Why do they not get the OF or NF spread of RAs? All other classes do. They have neither PD nor MoS. The weak-ass "baked-in" MoS argument just doesn't cut it dude. It needs to be a speccable RA or Archers need to have PD.

When we changed the RA set we announced the RA spread would be "NNF" meaning 1.124, including the unfair distribution (unfair in terms of some realms having 2 classes with it others only 1) of some RAs that would have gone on classes that don't exist here. The exceptions to the 1.124 RA spread would be some backfilling of some OF RAs, including those that were replaced by toa bonuses (MoArts etc.), no RR5s, the removal of charge and the necro kit as it already had the complete class revamp at this point and no longer owned a pet. All of these exceptions were part of the original announcement.
For archers and assassins that means no mos as speccable RA, and for archers that also means no pd as speccable RA. Ignoring some remaining bugs, the behavior of all active RAs is also exactly as it is on live with the notable exception of ae damage RAs here having fall off but no total number of affected player cap and some values adjusted or resistances changed to essence.
The best example of where we have always said "because it's like that on live" is the retarded sos breaking that makes no sense whatsoever on what breaks and what doesn't.

In summary: base patch level for mechanics = OF, base patch level for spells and spell behavior = OF, base patch level for styles = OF, base patch level for RAs = 1.124, base patch level for specific RA behavior = 1.124

The time we play the "because we're Phoenix, not Live" card is usually when it comes to mob placement or when we explicitly announced a change to something, an example for the latter would the removal of (almost all) luck for speed breaking.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 6:06 PM by Cadebrennus

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 5:36 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 3:54 PM
Sorry dude, I'm not talking about specific formulas, I'm talking about the fact that sometimes you guys follow Live, and sometimes you don't. Sometimes your answer is "because it's like that on Live" and sometimes your answer is "because we're Phoenix, not Live". One good example are Archer RAs. Why do they not get the OF or NF spread of RAs? All other classes do. They have neither PD nor MoS. The weak-ass "baked-in" MoS argument just doesn't cut it dude. It needs to be a speccable RA or Archers need to have PD.

When we changed the RA set we announced the RA spread would be as it was as of 1.124, including the unfair distribution (unfair in terms of some realms having 2 classes with it others only 1) of some RAs that would have gone on classes that don't exist here. The exceptions to the 1.124 RA spread would be some backfilling of some OF RAs, including those that were replaced by toa bonuses (MoArts etc.), no RR5s, the removal of charge and the necro kit as it already had the complete class revamp at this point and no longer owned a pet. All of these exceptions were part of the original announcement.
For archers and assassins that means no mos as speccable RA, and for archers that also means no pd as speccable RA. Ignoring some remaining bugs, the behavior of all active RAs is also exactly as it is on live with the notable exception of ae damage RAs here having fall off but no total number of affected player cap and some values adjusted or resistances changed to essence.
The best example of where we have always said "because it's like that on live" is the retarded sos breaking that makes no sense whatsoever on what breaks and what doesn't.

In summary: base patch level for mechanics = OF, base patch level for spells and spell behavior = OF, base patch level for styles = OF, base patch level for RAs = 1.124, base patch level for specific RA behavior = 1.124

The time we play the "because we're Phoenix, not Live" card is usually when it comes to mob placement or when we explicitly announced a change to something, an example for the latter would the removal of (almost all) luck for speed breaking.

No PD, then why do all Assassins get Viper (and not just NS)? This seems really unbalanced. If you want to justify all Assassins having Viper then remove PD from Casters so that Archers (and Tanks) can do the appropriate level of damage to Casters. This will reopen Casters as the "paper" to Archer's "scissors" in the rock-paper-scissors balance of DAOC.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 6:19 PM by

gruenesschaf

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 6:06 PM
No PD, then why do all Assassins get Viper (and not just NS)? This seems really unbalanced. If you want to justify all Assassins having Viper then remove PD from Casters so that Archers (and Tanks) can do the appropriate level of damage to Casters. This will reopen Casters as the "paper" to Archer's "scissors" in the rock-paper-scissors balance of DAOC.

At patch level 1.124 all assassins had viper. At patch level 1.124 no archers had pd. We used 1.124 as our base patch level for RAs / who gets what RAs.

Fri 27 Dec 2019 8:14 PM by Glenfiddich83

gruenesschaf wrote: At patch level 1.124 all assassins had viper. At patch level 1.124 no archers had pd. We used 1.124 as our base patch level for RAs / who gets what RAs.

I know its not on topic. but im just curious if i left live-servers too early, but ...

Where is written that offtanks can charge keep walls? Leviathan is an Cold procc and not spirit? Archers dont have bubblepenetration? TWF are restricted to line of sight?
Spiritmasters have 75% intercept (feels like 75% and tbh i dont know anyone who wants to prove it in 10000-hit testings and record that crap)

Just to give some examples ....

Sat 28 Dec 2019 12:03 AM by

gruenesschaf

Glenfiddich83 wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 8:14 PM
I know its not on topic. but im just curious if i left live-servers too early, but ...

Where is written that offtanks can charge keep walls? Leviathan is an Cold procc and not spirit? Archers dont have bubblepenetration? TWF are restricted to line of sight?
Spiritmasters have 75% intercept (feels like 75% and tbh i dont know anyone who wants to prove it in 10000-hit testings and record that crap)

Just to give some examples ....

Climbing, live gave it full tanks at some point as for where it's written that offtanks have it here: https://playphoenix.online/patch-notes
Levi being cold: Styles use the base patch level of about 1.65 and there it was cold. The change to spirit is something somewhat recently. See for example something from at least 2007 where it was still cold: http://camelot.allakhazam.com/db/wstyles.html?cwstyle=15
Archers have bubble penetration just like they had with the old archery system: penetrating arrow doesn't work against bt casted by the target aka self bt or group bt when attacking the casting theurgist / rm / warden.
TWF having LoS: https://playphoenix.online/patch-notes or https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=10457
SM: nobody has to test what the rate is on this server, we know it. The combat log test request is for doing it on pend as it is highly unlikely that they ever increased it meaning if pend has a lower rate it should be adjusted.

Sat 28 Dec 2019 12:32 AM by Cadebrennus

Get rid of self casted BT and PD. This will help Archers more than anything and not reduce Caster effectiveness. Casters' jobs are not to be Tank-ish, their jobs are to put out lots of DPS but be squishy, aka being the "glass cannons".

Sat 28 Dec 2019 1:20 AM by gromet12

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 12:03 AM
Glenfiddich83 wrote: ↑
Fri 27 Dec 2019 8:14 PM
Archers have bubble penetration just like they had with the old archery system: penetrating arrow doesn't work against bt casted by the target aka self bt or group bt when attacking the casting theurgist / rm / warden.

When archers couldn’t pop self casted bubble on casters, the casters also didn’t have the physical defense RA. When casters got PD, it didn’t matter as much as classes could chose between elemental or physical dmg (archers included), and archers critical shot popped self casted bubbles

Sat 28 Dec 2019 7:35 PM by Glenfiddich83

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 12:03 AM
Climbing, live gave it full tanks at some point as for where it's written that offtanks have it here: https://playphoenix.online/patch-notes
Levi being cold: Styles use the base patch level of about 1.65 and there it was cold. The change to spirit is something somewhat recently. See for example something from at least 2007 where it was still cold: http://camelot.allakhazam.com/db/wstyles.html?cwstyle=15
Archers have bubble penetration just like they had with the old archery system: penetrating arrow doesn't work against bt casted by the target aka self bt or group bt when attacking the casting theurgist / rm / warden.
TWF having LoS: https://playphoenix.online/patch-notes or https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=10457
SM: nobody has to test what the rate is on this server, we know it. The combat log test request is for doing it on pend as it is highly unlikely that they ever increased it meaning if pend has a lower rate it should be adjusted.

Climbing ability was named Spikes had a 5 minute reuse timer and lasted 20 seconds .. which is fair and nice and doesnt overwhelm enemies imo. Offtanks never had it until late pend patch (dont know exactly, never played pend) which also included Toa bonuses for casters so the were able to nuke down offtanks fast...

Your cold proc was meant in daoc history for nerfing reaver because he was way too strong with 10% resipierce, 10% magic-dmg/meleespeed/Style-dmg and so on. Only leviathan as boomslang followup had that cold proc. Before that nerf leviathan was a style with the req "from behind" nothing else and had done spiritproc dmg...

Archers (especially Scouts) are weak as f.... No fun at all when i read all the comments from archers and check the classes that are being played atm (dont know if that 45 shieldstyle will change anything...

SM. Old discussion. got no numbers for comparison. Only see that RR2 SM win against mostly any melee class (reavers not included) without using anything but petintercept...

Sun 29 Dec 2019 10:55 AM by Siouxsie

Basically, this hitpoint bonus nerfed archers to the point where bow damage does absolutely not enough damage.
Remove PD off casters.. they are too strong, and increase bow damage by 150%.

If I shoot a caster, I should be able to finish them off in 2-3 shots, not in 7-10 like it takes now. (By which time they've purged, MOC'd and nuked you to death because you can't counter that kind of crap)

I miss classic servers where I could actually shoot casters with bow and kill them. It was like that in beta before that silly melee nerf.

Since then the server has gone from bad to worse with the decisions made. Archers have not been properly looked at.

Sun 29 Dec 2019 12:11 PM by

gruenesschaf

Glenfiddich83 wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 7:35 PM
Your cold proc was meant in daoc history for nerfing reaver because he was way too strong with 10% resipierce, 10% magic-dmg/meleespeed/Style-dmg and so on. Only leviathan as boomslang followup had that cold proc. Before that nerf leviathan was a style with the req "from behind" nothing else and had done spiritproc dmg...

https://camelotherald.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.87

Reavers

Â - The damage type of Leviathan is now Spirit. (Reaver only)

Sun 29 Dec 2019 6:16 PM by teiloh

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 12:32 AM
Get rid of self casted BT and PD. This will help Archers more than anything and not reduce Caster effectiveness. Casters' jobs are not to be Tank-ish, their jobs are to put out lots of DPS but be squishy, aka being the "glass cannons".

Casters are already easy enough to kill.

Thu 2 Jan 2020 3:20 PM by Horus

teiloh wrote: ↑
Sun 29 Dec 2019 6:16 PM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Sat 28 Dec 2019 12:32 AM
Get rid of self casted BT and PD. This will help Archers more than anything and not reduce Caster effectiveness. Casters' jobs are not to be Tank-ish, their jobs are to put out lots of DPS but be squishy, aka being the "glass cannons".

Casters are already easy enough to kill.

Any caster that dies to an archer is:
1. Less than 50
2. Not templated or grouped
3. Not paying attention
4. Doesn't know the basics of how to play their class.

Very few meet the above criteria in RvR.

Bow damage at 50 should be ramped up to match the DPS vs. HP of target formula that exists in the BGs like Thid. At 50, the balance is broken.