30 minute purge + endless golf bag of poisoned weapons+ can use bot and use poison weapons on other toons.

Did some testing on Hib with some poisoned staffs.

Gave two poisoned staffs to so tsabas think his name was on hib, a bard. He equipped both poisoned staffs and was able to use them on me and poison me and then switch to other staff and use another poison charge.

Testing myself, I was able to have a golf bag of poisoned weapons and cycle through them endlessly poisoning.

So basically what we have is a balance issue, in my opinion.

I'm not sure what the solution is but I think some sort of custom fix and or make it impossible to use poison weapons without poison skill. Change it so you can't switch poison weapons somehow as well.

Wed 1 Aug 2018 6:06 PM by heardstheword

Swapping weapons with poisons is huge for stealthers.

The only option would be to not let people without Envenom "wear" weapons with poison applied to them. Or just make them not activate unless you are a class that uses poisons.

Though the effort is far more than it's worth.

Wed 1 Aug 2018 6:17 PM by Frigzy

This should indeed be regulated or it will become the new standard. The advantage is so massive it's not even funny.

You're basically granting a full spell line to all classes which should be limited to one per realm.

Envenom weapons are for envenom classes imo.

Wed 1 Aug 2018 6:59 PM by Tyton

I agree you should not be able to envenom a weapon for someone else - should be looked at if so. But as a sneak, you should be able to envenom as much of your own weapons as you please.

Wed 1 Aug 2018 7:32 PM by relvinian

There has to be some clever solution that will not be nerfing but will also not make it so assassins can not poison someone over and over.

Also, if you have account vault and even a lvl 35 bot you can carry a golf bag of lvl 35 disease weapons on any toon.

At which point, it is an arms race towards stupidity.

Wed 1 Aug 2018 7:34 PM by relvinian

Tyton wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Aug 2018 6:59 PM
I agree you should not be able to envenom a weapon for someone else - should be looked at if so. But as a sneak, you should be able to envenom as much of your own weapons as you please.

If purge has a 30 minute timer that gives assassins too much power.

First set is stat debuff poison, next set disease and snare, next 5 sets in a row are 1 poison 1 disease.

You just spam endless venom and stat and disease/snare what have you on someone.

Sounds great if you are the assassin, sounds like bs if you have to fight that nonsense.

Put it another way Disease+poison and kite. Can't re-poison during combat (why do you think that is) but nevermind, you have a golf bag. Here comes next set of disease + poison. and here is another. Etc. How about when its your minstrel who is stun + dot + disease?

Wed 1 Aug 2018 7:50 PM by Brokenstring

Hard to believe people are complaining about assassins being able to poison their own weapons. Working as intended.

Try playing a solo assassin and see how hard it is, you'll probably stop complaining then.

Wed 1 Aug 2018 8:00 PM by Rabbitstew

Assassins poisoning their own weapons, and having a "golf bag" of them, sounds fine to me. They invested in Envenom and should reap the rewards. To me, their mixture of poison application is what makes them deadly. Take that away and they're not so scary anymore, which defeats the purpose of an "assassin".

Now, giving poisoned weapons to non-assassins so they too have a "golf bag" of poisons is not okay. They've invested 0 points into Envenom, and so should reap 0 benefits. There are no buff bots on this server, and a "poison bot" should be included in that definition.

Wed 1 Aug 2018 8:54 PM by Tyton

I see your point Relv, but those are the tools at the assassin's disposal. No one "likes" being kited or diseased or dotted, obviously, but no one likes being stunned either or mezzed, etc. It's part of the game. Should we next take away shaman's disease and dot because "it's bs" and they kite you to death? Assassins have it pretty rough as it is, nerfing them will only serve to ensure no one plays one.

As an assassin player, I spent 35+ points to get lifebane and realm points for viper (sacrificing either some CS or sustained damage in order to get it) why shouldn't I get to poison people to death? Just the way a shaman or sorc or mentalist who spec'd a certain way dots you to death.

Wed 1 Aug 2018 9:18 PM by relvinian

I'm testing nightshade btw. Currently soloing one to test it.

Why do you think you are unable to apply poison during combat?

To prevent endless poison and debuff/disease etc.

If you allow golf bags full of poison weapons then why have the no cbt poison rule?

Wed 1 Aug 2018 9:43 PM by Tyton

relvinian wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Aug 2018 9:18 PM
Why do you think you are unable to apply poison during combat?

Because DAoC requires prep. If you don't prep, you're at a disadvantage: Buffs, shields, resists, potions, poison your weapons, etc. Some/most of these cannot be done while in combat mode. So you cast your buffs, drink your pots, poison your weapons ahead of time. If you don't, you deserve to lose. By allowing people to poison in combat, throws prep out the window in some regard. You shouldn't be rewarded for forgetting to poison your weapons, or forgetting to cast buffs for that matter as another example.

Wed 1 Aug 2018 11:20 PM by Joc

This is EXACTLY how it was at 1.65. This is they way assassins were made. I agree that poisoning weapons for others is pretty cheese mode, but being able to swap weapons and poison, debuff, disease, and snare on assassins is part of their kits. This is how they kill. Swapping dots was a very real thing. Be glad we dont have new RAs b/c even after a purge on 5m timer you were still diseased, dotted with double the damage via viper.

Adapt.

Wed 1 Aug 2018 11:44 PM by MacPrior

Vote:
One weapon, one poison, switch other weapon from weapon slot only, no weapon switch from inventory to weapon slot at all!
Poisoned weapon for using by yourself only.

Thu 2 Aug 2018 12:32 AM by Tyton

Joc wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Aug 2018 11:20 PM
This is EXACTLY how it was at 1.65. This is they way assassins were made. I agree that poisoning weapons for others is pretty cheese mode, but being able to swap weapons and poison, debuff, disease, and snare on assassins is part of their kits. This is how they kill. Swapping dots was a very real thing. Be glad we dont have new RAs b/c even after a purge on 5m timer you were still diseased, dotted with double the damage via viper.

Adapt.

This 200%

Thu 2 Aug 2018 12:48 AM by relvinian

I know a server that was going 100% 1.65

Thu 2 Aug 2018 12:54 AM by Tyton

relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Aug 2018 12:48 AM
I know a server that was going 100% 1.65

I don't think he meant it as in /worship 1.65, rather just recalling a time in classic. You should be able to poison all your own weapons hands down. I do agree that you shouldn't be able to do it for someone else, now that's bs.

And there is no server that is 100% 1.65, that other server just hides behind the pretense of 1.65.

Thu 2 Aug 2018 12:55 AM by Aincrad

Tyton wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Aug 2018 12:54 AM
You should be able to poison all your own weapons hands down. I do agree that you shouldn't be able to do it for someone else, now that's bs.

This. 100% agree

Thu 2 Aug 2018 1:00 AM by relvinian

Tyton wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Aug 2018 12:54 AM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 2 Aug 2018 12:48 AM
I know a server that was going 100% 1.65

I don't think he meant it as in /worship 1.65, rather just recalling a time in classic. You should be able to poison all your own weapons hands down. I do agree that you shouldn't be able to do it for someone else, now that's bs.

And there is no server that is 100% 1.65, that other server just hides behind the pretense of 1.65.

For sure we can agree that being able to poison golf bags full of weapons for others, like say a minstrel, would be a game balance issue. Poison+disease++2 instas+red pet? Want to fight that shit?

Thu 2 Aug 2018 4:49 AM by Icculus

How about instead of the weapons themselves being poisoned, it applies only to the inventory slot? Usable in combat but 5-10 second reuse timer.

Thu 2 Aug 2018 6:30 AM by Ceen

If its changed it should check for envenom spec level. Else there will be assasin envenom bots left since they could skip a whole specline (envenom) on their main char.

Thu 2 Aug 2018 6:35 AM by cdc

This issue is currently under staff discussion

Thu 2 Aug 2018 7:14 AM by aso

just make poisened weapons not tradeable, solved

Thu 2 Aug 2018 7:36 AM by Der_Eisbaer

I absolutely agree that any assassin class should be able to carry around and use as many poisoned weapons as they like without any disadvantage, as long as they personally have applied the poison to them.

Regarding the poisoning of a weapon for another player, how about that:

You may use a weapon on which another player has applied a poison - BUT there is a chance of 50% that when using this weapon it is not the enemy but instead is you that is being poisoned.

I find this a nice compromise, plus it will add to the actual RPG-atmosphere (and provide a lot of opportunity for laughter, btw.

).

Thu 2 Aug 2018 12:24 PM by Tyton

We all agree you SHOULD NOT be able to trade someone a poisoned weapon/or poison a weapon for someone else. That's pretty clear.

But as an assassin you SHOULD be able to poison all of his/her own weapons, and reapply the DOT as many times as you like. For instance a shaman can cast a DOT over and over on you and it will reset the DOT timer (i.e. doing first tick of damage). DOTs should work the same for everyone. If this gets nerfed to where you cannot reapply a poison/DOT, then I'd like to see the same nerf for all DOT classes - which I doubt would happen. Don't nerf DOTs, don't nerf an assassin's ability to poison. Just eliminate allowing people to exploit via poisoning weapons for other people.

Fri 3 Aug 2018 7:50 PM by Quik

The only issue I have is that the shaman can be interrupted and can't move while casting.

Correct me if I am wrong but a stealthier could stick you and sprint and simply keep swapping weapons to whatever he wants applying different effects.

No other classes can do that.

Not sure how to fix fairly but I still think a weapon swap should have some sort of timer so you can't do it instantly. Fair to stealthier is one thing, fair to the player he attacks is another.

Sat 4 Aug 2018 5:33 AM by relvinian

Now is the time to look at game meta and what is fair and balanced.

Sat 4 Aug 2018 7:49 AM by Elfenblut

MacPrior wrote: ↑
Wed 1 Aug 2018 11:44 PM
Vote:
One weapon, one poison, switch other weapon from weapon slot only, no weapon switch from inventory to weapon slot at all!
Poisoned weapon for using by yourself only.

100% agreed

Sun 5 Aug 2018 1:19 AM by relvinian

You can also use poison above ur level.

So at 40 with a couple realm ranks u can use lvl 50 poison 40+8+2 etc

Note I have not tested lvl 50 poison but at lvl 8 I can use lvl 10 poison.

at 34 with r3 you can use lvl 40 poison.

With an endless golf bag of poisoned weapons.

Screwing round I was fighting orange mobs with a bag of 6 poisoned weapons and snare no problem.

Sun 5 Aug 2018 3:10 AM by Tyton

relvinian wrote: ↑
Sun 5 Aug 2018 1:19 AM
You can also use poison above ur level.

So at 40 with a couple realm ranks u can use lvl 50 poison 40+8+2 etc

Note I have not tested lvl 50 poison but at lvl 8 I can use lvl 10 poison.

at 34 with r3 you can use lvl 40 poison.

With an endless golf bag of poisoned weapons.

Screwing round I was fighting orange mobs with a bag of 6 poisoned weapons and snare no problem.

You're making it sound like assassins are just OP at everything. They're really not. You're also low level - a lot of things at low level don't reflect say lvl40, 45, 50, etc. Fight a melee at lvl50, even with swapping, it's no picnic.

Sun 5 Aug 2018 3:21 AM by relvinian

You may not know this but assassins are supposed to lose if they fight tanks.

Sun 5 Aug 2018 3:55 AM by Tyton

relvinian wrote: ↑
Sun 5 Aug 2018 3:21 AM
You may not know this but assassins are supposed to lose if they fight tanks.

Well duh. Typically, yes, a tank should win by default (but every situation is different). Anyway you're saying in the game's current state melee beats assassin, so doesn't that mean all is right with the world (besides being able to trade a poisoned weapon)? I'm going to go out on a limb here but it sounds like you had a caster and got jumped a few times and now you're upset that the assassins were beating you so you want them to nerf weapon swapping. (And if that's the case anyone can just say what you've said in your last post: You may not know this but casters are supposed to lose if they get jumped by an assassin.)

Anyway to not let assassins weapon swap from their inventory seems like a mega nerf IMO, one I wouldn't want to see happen personally.

Sun 5 Aug 2018 8:48 AM by relvinian

Yep all I do all day long is want to nerf classes, particularly assassin classes because one once kicked sand in my face when I was at the beach.

Sun 5 Aug 2018 4:19 PM by Quik

My main issue has always been that assassins can poison with impunity and really zero chance of failure once they are close.

As I said before, shamans/cabby/menty/all dotters have the same problem which is being interrupted while being attacked. An assassin can poison you with a snare and stick you and you have zero chance simply because they can swap weapons and apply whatever dot they want and reapply as fast as they want.

To me this is a bit unfair.

Again make weapon switching have a timer to help solve.

Sat 11 Aug 2018 4:47 AM by Hanshi

Why not just make swapping weaps from inv on same time as applying poison. I played sneaks since start, the object is to pick your targets..not just spam a cple macros to redot every 10 secs. 3 weaps is plenty, dot, debuff, disease in 2h slot. At lower levels (thid, aber) its not your mellee or skill that wins for you..its your poison. Allowing weap swap macro doesnt let a person learn anything. In theory you cud run around an dot 4-5 people before you died and prob kill half of em.

Sat 11 Aug 2018 11:41 AM by heardstheword

Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 5 Aug 2018 4:19 PM
My main issue has always been that assassins can poison with impunity and really zero chance of failure once they are close.

That's the benefit of spending 629 spec points into a line to reach level 35 provides you. Plus having to temp for it.

I would hate to waste so much into Envenom for it to be useless.

Poisons can be resisted as well. Which provides a higher chance than 0% of failure.

Sat 11 Aug 2018 2:59 PM by Tyton

Killing a few people at once by just dotting them all a single time? You'll be dead long before that. Maybe if they're wayyy lower Level or RR than you, but I doubt it in most cases. Also, poison DOTs don't really last that long so reDOTing is a big deal. There's been such a strange point of view of sneaks in this forum of some people portray them like superman, taking down 4-5 opponents at a time with dozens of poisoned weapons. The reality is, well, much less "super" and you still have to pick your targets pretty carefully. Even by spamming/reDOT sometimes you can still lose lol. Poisons also get resisted too.

Sat 11 Aug 2018 5:23 PM by Zansobar

As far as I remember, this is how it worked back on live during the 1.65 era. Assassins carried an inventory full of poisoned weapons and they could also poison them and then give them to another toon. So this being said, it may be a hard sell to change this since it's been in the game for so long. I really don't think the stealth toons are gong to be much of a deal on this server given they will always be underbuffed (lower stat buffs than those in groups).

Sat 11 Aug 2018 6:19 PM by phixion

Assassins would never win fights if they couldn't weapon swap for new poisons.

What are we doing here, adding QoL and "common sense" changes, or completely redesigning the game?!

Sat 11 Aug 2018 7:46 PM by Tyton

I agree about not letting sneaks trade poisoned weapons to other characters. That's fine to fix.

But to stop them from weapon swapping is mega nerf here, you might as well delete 3 classes from game. ^_^
What's next suggestion, BM can't dual wield after equipping shield?

Mon 13 Aug 2018 12:26 AM by Cirath

heardstheword wrote: ↑
Sat 11 Aug 2018 11:41 AM
Quik wrote: ↑
Sun 5 Aug 2018 4:19 PM
My main issue has always been that assassins can poison with impunity and really zero chance of failure once they are close.

That's the benefit of spending 629 spec points into a line to reach level 35 provides you. Plus having to temp for it.

I would hate to waste so much into Envenom for it to be useless.

Poisons can be resisted as well. Which provides a higher chance than 0% of failure.

This is just whining by people who's only experience with assasins is from the pointy end of the rapier, or, at most, a perma BG character they "really pwned on". Because as we all know, BG's are the same as real RvR right?

Poison with impunity? Please. The assassin needs to be in melee range. the weapon needs to land, not be blocked/parried/evaded/bladeturned/missed/fumbled. The poison needs to not be resisted. Still can only apply one poison per weapon, and weapon swapping doesnt reset your swing timer or anything like that. Sometimes you are lucky to get 3 or 4 poisons applied during an entire fight with a shield tank. Whoops, he purged your stun, time to start over. You dead yet? if not here comes IP.

Poisoning multiple people, then just sitting back and watching the rps roll in? Are you serious? you know poisons only tick 4 times right? Lifebane (lvl 50 dot) hits templated players for 55-60 damage, less with casted resists. Thats a total of less than 250 hp over 20 seconds, so who are you going to kill with that? Laughable really.

Assasins can beat tanks 1 v 1. When everything goes as planned. One mistake, or some unlucky RNG, and assasin loses. The point of the class, when played correctly, is to begin as many fights as possible in a position of maximum advantage. You have the tools to do this, you just need the ability, the experience, and the patience to pull it off.

We must have an all-star cast playing Infs, SBs and NSs on this server because I havn't seen this many boogeyman stories about assasins since 2003. Shout out to the rest of my guys n gals in the shadows.

So please, do us a favor, and play an assasin to at least RR5 so you have an idea of what you are talking about before you come here whining about a mechanic you dont really understand. I'm looking at you Relvinian.