The Arena - FAQ - Phoenix Freeshard

Welcome brave Fighters, here is a FAQ about the Arena:

Step 1: Go to the Arena Registry and click „Register“ if you want to take part. If you are not solo, only the leader of the group has to click it.

Step 2: Wait till the fight starts. You will get ported to a random location. This may take some time, depending on if there is already a tournament going. At every tournament, everyone or every group has to fight each other. After that you get your reward and the tournament is over. The next tournament will start 5 mins after the current one ended.

Step 3: When being ported to the fight location, do /arena ready. When both sides did this, the fight starts.

Step 4: After a fight you will be ported back to Stygia Haven. In Stygia you are able to talk to other players in /region or /say. Also to players from enemy realms. Please keep the chat civil as we are monitoring it. All our rules are valid in the arena zone.

General Infos:

All active Ras are usable every fight.
You are only allowed to stealth for the first 3 mins of a fight. If you do so after 3 mins you will lose this fight.
Each fight has a radius of 25k locs. If you leave it, you will lose the fight.
Sorcs with at least 32 mind cause a level 50 pet to spawn, Sorcs with at least 20 mind cause a level 40 pet to spawn, Minstrels cause a level 50 pet to spawn, Mentalists cause a level 45 pet to spawn.
You will get rps for every fight you were fighting. The reward will be given at the end of the tournament.
Animists pets get killed after each fight.

Useful commands:

/arena ready: Ready up in preparation phase, must be used by group leader (after you got ported to the fight location)

/arena unregister: Cancels registration when not in a tournament or stops auto queue when currently in a tournament

/arena autoqueue: Enables automatically queueing again after a tournament is over. If you dont use this command, you have to register again after a tournament is over.

/arena queued: Lists all teams of all sizes that are queued for a tournament.

/arena current: Infos about the current tournaments

/arena info: shows arena instruction text

Last but not least:
Please keep in mind, that we are testing this new type of arena-mode. We have noticed that the arena-concept was very controversial discussed among the community. There are many different opinions on the subject, also in the member team. We havent finally decided yet, if and how this arena will make it into the live version of this server. Feel free to comment on this, let us know what you think. But let us know your opinion in a reasonable way.

Sat 15 Sep 2018 7:17 PM by Niix

My personal opinion is that arena is an incredibly bad idea long term for the server, especially if it’s available all the time... here are my recommendations if it was to be implemented:

1. Arena should not be worth RPs at all, BPs or feathers at most. If the desire for arena combat without adds is actually there, then there is no need for RPS (lets see how many actually want that). Would also force groups to still regular pvp for RAs.
2. Arena should have fixed group size options (1v1; 3v3; 5v5; 8v8 only)
3. Teams should start out of clip range so there is still some element of surprise and tactics occurring as fight starts.
4. Maps should show the clip range limits for forfeit.
5. Thanes should be buffed.

Sat 15 Sep 2018 7:24 PM by Smilo

Im not against it but since its not related to the realm war it should not reward realm points.
Feathers and gold? Sure.

Sat 15 Sep 2018 7:27 PM by Ombrix

Do it , do it , do it , do it , do it , do it . Thanks ❤️I know you choose right at the end, if something need to change or so, you will do it , so i just trust you guys 100% . PEACE ✌🏽

Sat 15 Sep 2018 7:34 PM by relvinian

I think that is a GREAT idea.

For an event. For bragging rights. For very short and very limited events which only give out rewards such as bragging rights.

Like a title.

Solo Arena Champ.

Team Arena Champ.

ETC.

It is nice. Breaks up monotony. Gives something else to do.

But this is DARK AGE of Camelot. It is a war. It isn't football or a boxing match.

Sat 15 Sep 2018 7:35 PM by relvinian

Smilo wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Sep 2018 7:24 PM
Im not against it but since its not related to the realm war it should not reward realm points.
Feathers and gold? Sure.

None of those. No RPs, no feathers, no gold.

Epeen rights. Name on a list. Herald has you as ranked number 1 in solo arena. title. Etc.

Sat 15 Sep 2018 7:53 PM by Leith

I'm for it, but just as an event. Maybe like 1 weekend every quarter or half year. Give out titles - like relv said - but also give out some kind of currency or just the credit for an item, non tradeable respec stone or something like that.

Sat 15 Sep 2018 8:14 PM by Druth

I think instances are incredibly bad for a game like this, any MMO really.

Population creates more population, the feeling of walking around an empty world kills the game.

Guess you've debated all of the things, and I really hope if arena ever comes on Live it will be a purely title reward system, because otherwise I personally wont have any ineterest sadly.

Sat 15 Sep 2018 9:08 PM by Takii

I like the idea but as others have said I strongly disagree with it giving any sort of tangible reward.

Either make it give rewards but have it only available every 2-3 weeks as an event, or make it available all the time with no rewards, but not both. That goes against everything else you've been doing to promote RvR.

Sat 15 Sep 2018 9:16 PM by Aincrad

Agree with what has been said. I will probably not do arena as I am a casual player and not very good but I think the arena is a nice touch and something cool/different. The more different things we have on this server to help maintain population and also to increase population is good.

However, as mentioned, I do not think it should reward players with rp, bp, or feathers. Only title and possibly small gold rewards imo.

If players are rewarded rp, bp, and feathers I think that will incentives people to only do arena and detract them from doing RvR in the frontiers and lessen the amount of people in RvR

Sat 15 Sep 2018 9:35 PM by

Uthred

Before rumors start spreading out: you do not get any feathers in the arena.

Sat 15 Sep 2018 11:09 PM by Tiddywell

I LOVE the idea of the Arena. Whether it’s always available or as an event every couple weeks. I think it’d be obvious if it negatively affects RvR action enough to tweak availability or rewards.

When first launched many will play arena but won’t know really until it’s been around awhile. Plus population will be higher once out of beta so may be plenty of action to go around.

It’d be nice to have something to do when getting zerged by 4 groups and feel like logging off.

I had a BLAST playing arena during the test. It’s probably the coolest thing I’ve ever seen in DAoC.

And I think it should provide rewards. Could tweak the amount as time goes I suppose but some RP/BP reward for winning fights makes sense to me.

This server just keeps impressing the hell out of me. Huge kudos to you guys.

Sat 15 Sep 2018 11:17 PM by Dragonn

Arena for rp? NO PLEASE.
Will ruin all the frontier rvr.. I'm sure.

The arena can be a funny idea but for gold/bp/feathers... but NOT rp

Sat 15 Sep 2018 11:31 PM by Yint

I also think arena should not give any rps, it is a nice place for dueling though and could be quite fun to have nice pre-arranged fights that teleport you right to your opponents. Good place for practice and tournament style play, but not for rvr progression.

Add a spectator area for some fight areas as well, would be nice to watch some battle it out while waiting for your turn, or just watching for fun.

Sun 16 Sep 2018 12:29 AM by Magesty

To repeat what almost everyone else is saying— having the arena be a permanent fixture is no bueno, and having it award realm points is doubly bad. I’d even venture to say having it available at all— even for a couple of nights a month isn’t the best idea.

If you need a case study for the effect something like this has on the frontiers you need look no further than the Classic Servers after Labyrinth was released. The frontier zones went from being fairly active for solo and small man action to a sad, empty wasteland. All the soloers and small groups went to a couple zones in the Labyrinth to circle jerk and duel. A few remained looking for action in the regular zones but it was down to to about 20-30% of the normal population. This, along with a few other poor choices, hewed into the slowly declining population. Once the population was reduced to a certain level RvRing basically became porting to two or three labyrinth zones and if no one was around you’d just log out.

The other unfortunate side effect of creating an enclosed and controlled RvR environment is it severely limits the class pool. In the case of the duel zones in Labyrinth it was tanks and hybrids that reigned supreme. Casters couldn’t consistently get LoS. You’d basically only see vamps/vales/champs/heroes from hib, thanes/valks/warriors from mid and Reavers/armsmen/heretics from Alb. Possibly some assassins, rangers and maulers mixed in. In the case of the ToA duel zones classes like Animists and enchanters flat out hard counter so many potential competitors it will destroy any semblance of an enjoyable competitive environment.

Not only that but having RAs refresh for every fight just exacerbates the advantage higher RR characters will have. So say you have this system implemented and have it awarding RPs. If someone comes late to the server and wants to play solo or duo how do they advance? There will be almost no solo action in the frontiers and they won’t be able to compete in the arena. At all. They basically have to Zerg surf or kill levelers. This is a HUGE turn off for a lot of potential new comers. Even at RR5 or 6 they will have trouble competing against RR8s and 9s who are specced for dueling and have their tricks up every fight. Not to mention the impact this has on classes that rely on slam or other purgable effects.

This is not a game made for dueling. It isn’t a game made for controlled 1v1 encounters. Putting a system like this in will split the population, decimate solo and small man play in the frontiers, and runs contrary to everything you are working for with your RvR task changes.

Sun 16 Sep 2018 12:53 AM by Pendalith

IMO its a good idea to have this option for the 8v8 / smallman/ and or solo community. Its just a great quality to be able to practice and play and not be interfered with added on ect. HOWEVER 0 rps , 0 bps, 0 feathers, 0 gold ect. Only reward should be bragging rights / on herald , and perhaps titles. Its just not hard to conduct a clean 8v8 (lets be real here some folks set them up) just don't go where the tasks and being held. Have fun and gg wp but dont act entitled, you dont get to be safe in a warzone ^^ Besides adds inc just makes it more of a challenge for those suuuuuuuper good players, lol ^^

Sun 16 Sep 2018 3:17 AM by Takii

RAs resetting every fight is understandable but it also exacerbates the existing balance problems with OF RAs.

For example Mid groups are generally the strongest at this patch level because SOS and group purge aren't always available and because Mid tank groups are very resilient and therefore good at unpredictable fights, but in a controlled environment I think they will just get shit on by any equal RR/skill group because good luck dealing with 2x GP/1x AM or 2x BOF/1x SOS every fight.

In fact I don't really see how you can lose an arena fight as an alb group given equal skill and RR.

Just another reason why this should not give rewards.

Sun 16 Sep 2018 6:49 AM by oslo

Solo players Will fight against Full groups in the same area ?

Sun 16 Sep 2018 8:40 AM by aso

oslo wrote: ↑
Sun 16 Sep 2018 6:49 AM
Solo players Will fight against Full groups in the same area ?

not that happens just in frontiers

Sun 16 Sep 2018 9:29 AM by Cadebrennus

Duel towns (aka /bow towns) on killed a lot of solo RvR in the frontier on live and allowed most "soloers" to inflate their "solo kills" and Lone Enforcer titles.

My concern about the arena is that it will have a similar effect of killing small man RvR in the frontiers here on Phoenix.

Sun 16 Sep 2018 11:21 AM by Dis

i hope arena comes and brings tons of rps, so i dont have to task the whole time...

remove the rp gain from task to zero @rr5max. so maybe the "zergcasuals" are looking for new ways to climp rps and showing up in the arena?

seriously, what comes next?

i mean the tasksystem is understandable, even tho i think it will end up in a zergfest everyday...it brings action to rvr zone and thats what u want for your server.
but now u wanna implement another tool to create action.

why dont u let the game as it is now? people should roam to get rps. i dont get these whole custom changes.

Sun 16 Sep 2018 1:55 PM by Moondragon

1) I "might" be for it if (and only if) this was done on special rare events and they should absolutely not be worth any RPs, bounty points, feathers, gold, etc. It should only be a bragging rights kind of thing with perhaps a title or something that doesn't affect the game/balance. Otherwise, scrap the whole concept of arena.

2) I'm disappointed that we're wasting time with this kind of stuff. I'd rather have beta finished faster than worry about adding unique aspects to the game like arena. We can beta test unique instanced areas later after the game launches. Just initially make anything "new" an instance and test it there (with no rewards) to see what people think.

Sun 16 Sep 2018 2:53 PM by Vkejai

Awful idea, also to many tasks now. What happened to taking keeps and relics... More like a Wow game here.

Sun 16 Sep 2018 4:02 PM by SandyFox

I'm concerned about how it could affect RvR myself, and then total population given that this kind of play is relatively unfriendly to the casual player. It also puts in stark relief that this game just isn't made for this kind of play, between how ridiculously effective active RAs are when you can use them every fight and class balance being all over the place. It is a fun feature though, and I had a good time with it last night.

I'd suggest making it a special event thing, on a schedule so it's available reasonably often, but far from all the time. Taking the RPs out of it is probably a good idea too to limit its impact on play in the frontiers. Titles would be fun, and I do wonder if a relatively modest feather reward would be good in lieu of other potential rewards, especially if it isn't available most of the time. As I see it, having some substantive reward for doing it when it's available isn't so bad, as this could encourage more participation by players who aren't decked out with the best of everything which could help keep it from being an elite club that anyone else just gets stomped in until they give up. This reward just shouldn't be too great, and making that reward something other than RPs keeps players from logging on just for the arena after they get geared up.

If it is going to be all the time though, it certainly should have no substantive rewards. Bragging rights and titles, sure, but nothing that can affect performance at all. One way or another it needs to be relegated to being a sideshow, and I think having it as a scheduled event is the best way to accomplish this.

Sun 16 Sep 2018 9:03 PM by Curax

Abolutely not a fan of the arena-concept. I always liked an element of uncertainty about DAoC and arenas are the polar opposite. For me, part of the game is always the uncertainty of a good group rolling larger numbers of players, or running into a zerg and trying to get away etc. In the arena, RAs are always up, you face a known number of opponents in a designated small area of a map. Those elements are also the reason why there should never be rewards in form of RPs, if the staff decided to implement arenas into the final version - it would turn out to be a glorified version of RP farming in a vacuum. I can totally understand the appeal of having 'clean' 8v8 fights, so for bragging rights and the fun of that playing style, I could accept arenas as part of the game. But for the sake of having populated RvR zones, I'd rather not have arenas implemented at all.

It's great that the staff is working on ideas to improve the server, but arenas/instanced areas are something I personally consider harmful in an MMORPG, since it would turn into a mini-game within the actual game, that other people cannot access at the same time. My vote would be for removing arenas altogether.

Sun 16 Sep 2018 11:38 PM by schreon

Permanent Practice Arena
I think the arena can stay permanently if the RP rewards are turned off entirely and the tournament mode is changed to something similar to /duel challenge. Hence, create an arena where whole groups of people across all realms can fight each other similar to a duel, without any reward. The reason to do that is to just test stuff or to simply see which group wins most often given optimal circumstances.

I think this form of an arena would strongly benefit the server community, as people can practice difficult maneuvers. I imagine an evening where we practice some 8v8 against a group of another guild in our alliance. We can share tricks and get improve our playstyle in a protected environment. Maybe people who fight mediocre now can become great players if they can practice here instead of only zerging or getting farmed. It might be the entry ticket for them to a competetive PvP world.

I doubt such an arena would threaten the rest of RvR. Or do duels threaten solo RvR in any way?

Optionally add the option to challenge another group for a ranked fight. That would result in adjustments in some sort of weekly / monthly / yearly leaderboards or something like an ELO rank as in games like CS:GO.

Temporary Event Arena
Additionally, you could of course add events that work like the current arena and reward things like titles etc. If you want to grant RP rewards however, you would have to make sure that only groups with a similar average RR are matched against each other. In the current state of the arena you just feed low RRs to the high RRs.

Mon 17 Sep 2018 1:53 AM by Rayvn11

Agree with most everyone here in saying that, if implemented as a feature, it should not have any tangible rewards aside from bragging rights or titles perhaps.

That said, I personally don't like the idea of it at all. It feels like we are taking once of the best non-instances RvR based games in DAOC and trying to turn it into something that more closely resembles Word of Warcraft. I like that there is some creative thinking going on, so have to give the staff props for that. This idea however, is not a good one for this games in my opinion.

Mon 17 Sep 2018 3:34 AM by Hammurabi0788

Should have no rewards or be limited to a once a month event.

Daoc is about rvr and if this is fully implemented it brings a distraction from end game. And many will use it instead of rvr.

So rvr will end up being dead

Mon 17 Sep 2018 10:43 AM by dabri0n

For an arena go to Alteri, they have the server down already..

Mon 17 Sep 2018 4:50 PM by Chaskha

How I see things:
Just keep it under the belt at release for the times high RR and fixed teams start to roll on every PUG not 6L+.
At this point, set it limited to under 6L, 4v4 only and try to match up with something like Group.Sum(Players.RPs).
Make it seasonal so that people don't create chars over and over and stay in Arena all the time, eg 4 days starting each season on the first weekend.

And on the opposite side, for the 8v8 people claiming to play only for the beautiful fights, have an arena without anything but temporary titles and a check to enter it like Group.Sum(Players.RPs) > 13L. Please have the word "Glorious" in every title too and maybe add an unique effect over them head so we all recognize them.
eg: Glorious Champion of Midgard has won 10 arena against dem hibbies and 10 against albs

All in all, I concur with the idea that the RvR population should not be spread too much

Mon 17 Sep 2018 8:40 PM by

Uthred

The arena is disabled for now. As I said before, we are testing things and we are still discussing on the arena. Thank you for your feedback. Feel free to leave more comments on the arena in this thread.

Mon 17 Sep 2018 9:31 PM by Brokenstring

I personally think the arena is a bad idea. If you wanted to do something like that, why not just implement NF instead? An arena that can be used for RPs will hurt open world RvR almost certainly. If it's implemented, it should be for limited used. No RPs for sure. I think well designed and functioning RvR tasks is a better idea to get action both big and small focused in particular areas.

Besides aren't there already things in the game that can serve a similar function? Dodens, Marfach and especially DF?

Speaking of the frontier dungeons, how about redesigning that shithole that Alb calls a frontier dungeon so it's actually playable? LOL

Mon 17 Sep 2018 11:55 PM by Tiddywell

How about having a daily cap for rewards in the arena? So only the first say 5 or 10 kills would give any RPs and after that nothing.

That way even people that like the arena won’t be Incentivized to play arena all day and won’t take away from frontier RvR.

Tue 18 Sep 2018 5:55 AM by Fraq

Dragonn wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Sep 2018 11:17 PM
Arena for rp? NO PLEASE.
Will ruin all the frontier rvr.. I'm sure.

The arena can be a funny idea but for gold/bp/feathers... but NOT rp

Tue 18 Sep 2018 6:30 AM by Waygone

Tiddywell wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Sep 2018 11:55 PM
How about having a daily cap for rewards in the arena? So only the first say 5 or 10 kills would give any RPs and after that nothing.

That way even people that like the arena won’t be Incentivized to play arena all day and won’t take away from frontier RvR.

I would support this. The caveat being, I have yet to test arena and am not quite sure where it will end up. That being said, I, in now way want people to continue to roll arena ALL day long for RPs

Tue 18 Sep 2018 8:27 AM by Hawt

This is a MMO M meaning massive the direction should be towards massive fights not the 8v8 small man crews lets make keep takes worth a lot and bring back the keep massive fights

Tue 18 Sep 2018 10:53 AM by Tree

If it gives RP, even a limited amount each day, it will create a clientele that just does its daily RP limit, then logs. Any RP reward for arena is bad for the game.
Otherwise I like the idea and I dont see any harm in giving it BP, gold, title and maybe feather rewards in a limited capacity or just for outstanding achievements or victories.

Tue 18 Sep 2018 10:56 AM by Vkejai

Please scrap it, it's not what the game is about.

Tue 18 Sep 2018 11:38 AM by Hedien

The reason why I think Phoenix is going to be successful, is that it will be oriented toward casuals.

Arena is a step toward a totally opposite direction and will :
- Depopulate zones.
- Frustrate casuals / low rr unable to compete.
- Create leet duelers happiness.

Depopulation and frustration have the infamous effect of leading people away from the game.

If we are to have this, I don't mind for it to give reward / rp / title / poneys, but it should be extremely short lived.
Like a weekend at most, and not repeat for several months.

If it is implemented on above conditions, balancing 1v1 encounter is critical. Being 7L with IP, purge is easy game against poor 3L without powerful active RA. This type of frustration should be taken out. Maybe categories would help ? Caster vs casters, melee vs melee - etc.

Hed / Grim.

Tue 18 Sep 2018 1:24 PM by Nehm

This is a RvR game, not a PvP game. It's about war between the realms, not about some kind of international dueling olympics. Awarding REALM points for killing people of ones own realm makes zero sence and is frankly kinda insulting.

Tue 18 Sep 2018 1:42 PM by Horus

Not sure what game you are trying to make here but it definitely seems to be moving to something where it is DAoC in name only...which is fine, your baby... Just don't advertise it as DAoC.

RPs for arena fights? That is not ripe for exploiting/ discord cross realming/RP farming at all...nope not at all

If you must do it that way, make the loser lose RPs.

Tue 18 Sep 2018 5:41 PM by keen

It's just another option to play the game, what's wrong with that?
If the only thing this server is offering is casual skirmish the 8 men ppl will just not play here. I think the arena is a good idea and doesn't harm but gives more options to play.

I would also like to see a scaleing in rp, so is still most benefitial to join the skirmish.

Tue 18 Sep 2018 8:08 PM by defiasbandit

This has no place in DAOC especially on a private sever where the population is sketchy to begin with. If you want a dueling tournament event then make it in a realm zone against players on your own realm.

Wed 19 Sep 2018 12:14 AM by Tiddywell

A dueling tournament doesn’t allow for 2v2, 3v3, etc. Why not just wait until we see the actual effects of an arena before complaining?

Zergs may have a couple less solos and duos to mow down, it’s true. I personally don’t enjoy zerg warfare and depending on what class you’re playing you don’t always even have the option to join a group.

The most fun I have in DAoC is small man vs small man and it’s rare to find in the frontiers. A 3 man gettiing steamrolled over and over by 3 or 4 groups doesn’t seem more likely to convince players to keep playing on the server than giving them this option.

Those days when you get zerged repeatedly folks like me are more likely to just log off entirely without the arena option.

Wed 19 Sep 2018 12:23 AM by Budikah

If only there was a whole server solely setup as a duel arena...

Wed 19 Sep 2018 4:52 AM by Vkejai

Tiddywell wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Sep 2018 12:14 AM
A dueling tournament doesn’t allow for 2v2, 3v3, etc. Why not just wait until we see the actual effects of an arena before complaining?

Zergs may have a couple less solos and duos to mow down, it’s true. I personally don’t enjoy zerg warfare and depending on what class you’re playing you don’t always even have the option to join a group.

The most fun I have in DAoC is small man vs small man and it’s rare to find in the frontiers. A 3 man gettiing steamrolled over and over by 3 or 4 groups doesn’t seem more likely to convince players to keep playing on the server than giving them this option.

Those days when you get zerged repeatedly folks like me are more likely to just log off entirely without the arena option.

—-------
The only times there are zerg is when you get the fight in emain, odins zone etc, and then it's normally its not one large group just lots of people in one area. Blame the tasks for that. Uthgard was way more zerg than this place.

Wed 19 Sep 2018 1:36 PM by Sesha

The Arena does not belong in DAoC. The defining characteristic of the game (and frankly, why people keep returning to play it after all this time) is the REALM VS. REALM. Other games already have these mini-game BGs, yet people keep ending up back here. There's a reason for that. Don't make the game into something it was never meant to be.

I know some players out there want that solo or 8v8 action. Hey, you do you, but maybe recognize there are other games that will give you that action
without needing specially created mini games. The scale of DAoC pvp action has always been/should always be larger (realm based).

Stop dumbing down the game, please. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Wed 19 Sep 2018 2:41 PM by rubaduck

I know soloers and smallmen groups wants a "freespace", and I get why they want it. But I fail to see the argument as to why they should.

Let me try to break down my own understanding of it.

Soloers are having a bad time because groups can easily add on to their fights, and the pool of classes are small in terms of solo classes. They get added on by their own realm, they get zerged down (by dishonest 8v8'ers with no regards and sense of morale), and they have a hard time finding a spot to do the 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 so they are given an arena that they can practice their way of playing.

Let's look at the other side, the 8v8'ers. They want a clean and straight up 8 v 8 fight, so they roam about to set up their sport. They get added on by zerg, they get added on by smaller groups, by soloers, by other 8v8 groups. The 8v8ers just want a free space to do their thing in, just like an arena for 1 v 1, 2 v 2 and 3 v 3.

The problem I have with this, is that giving in to the smallmen and soloers, you're favourising them by giving them the "safe" option, while the 8 man groups still have the same struggle with zergs, and other groups adding. And at this point, I am wondering why? The game has never been solo friendly, period. And it has been unwritten rules, that 8 man groups leave solo and smallmen less then 5 alone.

So why are arena's not given to 8 man if is given to smallmen and solo?

Wed 19 Sep 2018 7:01 PM by defiasbandit

No arena under any circumstance. The rvr task system needs tweaking if part of the playerbase is becoming this desperate. If you want to 1v1, 2v2 etc.. in a controlled environement then do it through dueling on your own realm.

Wed 19 Sep 2018 11:13 PM by Armsmancer

"if part of the playerbase is becoming this desperate"

okay well if that ever happens let us know

also

Wed 19 Sep 2018 11:47 PM by Cadebrennus

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Sep 2018 2:41 PM
I know soloers and smallmen groups wants a "freespace", and I get why they want it. But I fail to see the argument as to why they should.

Let me try to break down my own understanding of it.

Soloers are having a bad time because groups can easily add on to their fights, and the pool of classes are small in terms of solo classes. They get added on by their own realm, they get zerged down (by dishonest 8v8'ers with no regards and sense of morale), and they have a hard time finding a spot to do the 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 so they are given an arena that they can practice their way of playing.

Let's look at the other side, the 8v8'ers. They want a clean and straight up 8 v 8 fight, so they roam about to set up their sport. They get added on by zerg, they get added on by smaller groups, by soloers, by other 8v8 groups. The 8v8ers just want a free space to do their thing in, just like an arena for 1 v 1, 2 v 2 and 3 v 3.

The problem I have with this, is that giving in to the smallmen and soloers, you're favourising them by giving them the "safe" option, while the 8 man groups still have the same struggle with zergs, and other groups adding. And at this point, I am wondering why? The game has never been solo friendly, period. And it has been unwritten rules, that 8 man groups leave solo and smallmen less then 5 alone.

So why are arena's not given to 8 man if is given to smallmen and solo?

That's nice in theory and all but on live the "elite" 8mans would chase soloers and smallmans to the zone walls for a few extra RPs. Basically they talked about honor in fights but nearly all of them were full of sh!t.

Wed 19 Sep 2018 11:51 PM by Armsmancer

My solo's get rolled by every 8man on this server ever, I have never been left alone, so your unwritten rules/code are more

Thu 20 Sep 2018 12:15 AM by Tiddywell

Who exactly gets to be the arbiter of what features DAoC is “supposed” to contain? This server already diverges from “true classic”, and if that means another Uthgard clone I’m VERY glad it diverges. Different strokes, but personally I prefer this server a million times over. And it’s definitely not because it’s more authentic to *exactly* how the game used to be.

It’s easy to forget the annoyances and reminisce about only the good times.

IMO the changes the Phoenix team have been implementing have overall made the game much more fun to play.

This server is different. I love the changes they’ve made so far, and I think an arena implemented in the right way would just make it that much better. And it’s still only beta - the population is likely to grow on launch.

If you don’t get too attached to everyone playing the game the way you want them to you may find this server can attract enough action for all playstyles.

Thu 20 Sep 2018 12:43 AM by Tree

Tiddywell wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Sep 2018 12:15 AM
Who exactly gets to be the arbiter of what features DAoC is “supposed” to contain? This server already diverges from “true classic”, and if that means another Uthgard clone I’m VERY glad it diverges. Different strokes, but personally I prefer this server a million times over. And it’s definitely not because it’s more authentic to *exactly* how the game used to be.

It’s easy to forget the annoyances and reminisce about only the good times.

IMO the changes the Phoenix team have been implementing have overall made the game much more fun to play.

This server is different. I love the changes they’ve made so far, and I think an arena implemented in the right way would just make it that much better. And it’s still only beta - the population is likely to grow on launch.

If you don’t get too attached to everyone playing the game the way you want them to you may find this server can attract enough action for all playstyles.

Thats my believe exactly. Although one has to consider overall gamedesign. If arena for example would be faster and more efficient for farming RP, feathers etc. that would quickly become the core endgame for lots or even most players. But DAoC is about open frontier RvR, not arena style gameplay. Therefore such a gamedesign choice would probably alienate a lot of players that are interested in a classic DAoC experience.
That being said, I like the idea of offering this additional playstyle for those players that are into it. It just cant replace existing playstyles in regards to rewards and effectiveness.

Thu 20 Sep 2018 12:51 AM by Armsmancer

If there were 5000 people playing nobody would care, the problem is the low pop and all those people out in the frontiers want YOUR RPs that is why they are complaining.

It's like those really big high school basketball indoor courts with like 10 different baskets along the walls. These ppl whining above are the 5v5'ers and are going around telling everyone doing 2v2 to stop and get on the bigger court and form 5v5, but they don't want to 5v5, but the 5v5 doesn't stop whining about others enjoying their 2v2s.

I don't even arena, never did, and don't care that it is in any more than I care some guy is out RP'ing in llyn barfog with his girlfriend pretending to be a half ogre princess.

Thu 20 Sep 2018 11:06 AM by rubaduck

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Sep 2018 11:47 PM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Sep 2018 2:41 PM
I know soloers and smallmen groups wants a "freespace", and I get why they want it. But I fail to see the argument as to why they should.

Let me try to break down my own understanding of it.

Soloers are having a bad time because groups can easily add on to their fights, and the pool of classes are small in terms of solo classes. They get added on by their own realm, they get zerged down (by dishonest 8v8'ers with no regards and sense of morale), and they have a hard time finding a spot to do the 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 so they are given an arena that they can practice their way of playing.

Let's look at the other side, the 8v8'ers. They want a clean and straight up 8 v 8 fight, so they roam about to set up their sport. They get added on by zerg, they get added on by smaller groups, by soloers, by other 8v8 groups. The 8v8ers just want a free space to do their thing in, just like an arena for 1 v 1, 2 v 2 and 3 v 3.

The problem I have with this, is that giving in to the smallmen and soloers, you're favourising them by giving them the "safe" option, while the 8 man groups still have the same struggle with zergs, and other groups adding. And at this point, I am wondering why? The game has never been solo friendly, period. And it has been unwritten rules, that 8 man groups leave solo and smallmen less then 5 alone.

So why are arena's not given to 8 man if is given to smallmen and solo?

That's nice in theory and all but on live the "elite" 8mans would chase soloers and smallmans to the zone walls for a few extra RPs. Basically they talked about honor in fights but nearly all of them were full of sh!t.

That is just snark. Still doesn't answer my question: why do smallmen and solo get a safe zone, but 8 man not?

Thu 20 Sep 2018 12:46 PM by Tiddywell

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Sep 2018 11:06 AM
That is just snark. Still doesn't answer my question: why do smallmen and solo get a safe zone, but 8 man not?

1. Groups of 8 are FAR less vulnerable and defenseless. To a solo or duo an 8 man may as well be a zerg, while the group of 8 more rarely just have zero chance at all. Standard 8 man groups aren’t the bottom of the food chain.

2. Groups of up to 8 can queue up in the arena as far as I know.

Either way, I don’t see this as the main point of the arena. But it could be a fun way to get consistently “fair” fights.

Personally I don’t see how steamrolling soloers and small mans can even be fun other than the free RPs. Being rewarded for that seems much more ridiculous than for winning a 1v1 or 2v2.

Thu 20 Sep 2018 1:44 PM by rubaduck

Tiddywell wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Sep 2018 12:46 PM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Sep 2018 11:06 AM
That is just snark. Still doesn't answer my question: why do smallmen and solo get a safe zone, but 8 man not?

1. Groups of 8 are FAR less vulnerable and defenseless. To a solo or duo an 8 man may as well be a zerg, while the group of 8 more rarely just have zero chance at all. Standard 8 man groups aren’t the bottom of the food chain.

2. Groups of up to 8 can queue up in the arena as far as I know.

Either way, I don’t see this as the main point of the arena. But it could be a fun way to get consistently “fair” fights.

Personally I don’t see how steamrolling soloers and small mans can even be fun other than the free RPs. Being rewarded for that seems much more ridiculous than for winning a 1v1 or 2v2.

Vulnerability should not even be an argument. I see your point, but pvp in this game (which I absolutely love, it is the best and what drew me in to it back in vanilla) is designed to be in the frontiers. I don't agree with "red is ded" mentality, but it has been a staple ever since. Go ahead, make arena, but don't reward players for it.

As far as I know, only up to 5v5 could. If 8 man can group up then no problem. My stand on rewards is still the same.

Thu 20 Sep 2018 2:52 PM by Kaziera

Arena as permanent feature is not a good idea. After a short time only the op classes will participate and farm rps inbetween each other.

As a rare event i see no problem. It makes it possible to gain some rps on those underplayed hybrids, like my paly who failed miserably but still gained some rp.

Thu 20 Sep 2018 4:50 PM by Cadebrennus

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Sep 2018 11:06 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Sep 2018 11:47 PM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Sep 2018 2:41 PM
I know soloers and smallmen groups wants a "freespace", and I get why they want it. But I fail to see the argument as to why they should.

Let me try to break down my own understanding of it.

Soloers are having a bad time because groups can easily add on to their fights, and the pool of classes are small in terms of solo classes. They get added on by their own realm, they get zerged down (by dishonest 8v8'ers with no regards and sense of morale), and they have a hard time finding a spot to do the 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 so they are given an arena that they can practice their way of playing.

Let's look at the other side, the 8v8'ers. They want a clean and straight up 8 v 8 fight, so they roam about to set up their sport. They get added on by zerg, they get added on by smaller groups, by soloers, by other 8v8 groups. The 8v8ers just want a free space to do their thing in, just like an arena for 1 v 1, 2 v 2 and 3 v 3.

The problem I have with this, is that giving in to the smallmen and soloers, you're favourising them by giving them the "safe" option, while the 8 man groups still have the same struggle with zergs, and other groups adding. And at this point, I am wondering why? The game has never been solo friendly, period. And it has been unwritten rules, that 8 man groups leave solo and smallmen less then 5 alone.

So why are arena's not given to 8 man if is given to smallmen and solo?

That's nice in theory and all but on live the "elite" 8mans would chase soloers and smallmans to the zone walls for a few extra RPs. Basically they talked about honor in fights but nearly all of them were full of sh!t.

That is just snark. Still doesn't answer my question: why do smallmen and solo get a safe zone, but 8 man not?

None of the above groups should have a "safe space". They should play the game as it was designed, risks and all.

Thu 20 Sep 2018 6:47 PM by schreon

They should play the game as it was designed, risks and all.

Facing enemies of similar numbers and similar strength already comes with a whopping 50% risk. IMHO that is enough "risk and all".

Thu 20 Sep 2018 10:39 PM by defiasbandit

I changed my mind.

I am all for arena if it is a duel to the death. The loser has their character deleted.

Fri 21 Sep 2018 12:03 PM by rubaduck

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Sep 2018 4:50 PM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Sep 2018 11:06 AM
Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Wed 19 Sep 2018 11:47 PM
That's nice in theory and all but on live the "elite" 8mans would chase soloers and smallmans to the zone walls for a few extra RPs. Basically they talked about honor in fights but nearly all of them were full of sh!t.

That is just snark. Still doesn't answer my question: why do smallmen and solo get a safe zone, but 8 man not?

None of the above groups should have a "safe space". They should play the game as it was designed, risks and all.

Exactly, it's either all or none. I want none.

Wed 26 Sep 2018 2:05 AM by Anonymouse

I'm fine with it for titles and promotion, really anything EXCEPT realm points. Please don't let it earn you RPs.

Mon 1 Oct 2018 3:45 AM by Ingvold

This arena thing sounds like a clear case of "be careful what you wish for."

The obvious reason why "l33t" players, IRC kiddies, etc. would want an arena like this is so that they won't get added on and can always have their RAs up. (And never mind the fact that DAoC is a Realm RvR game, so that technically they're *supposed* to get added on if it makes their side lose.) A good, clean fight every time. Sounds great, right?

But what happens when such a group loses a fight and cannot blame adds, down RAs, or the like? Well, the moment factors outside the group cannot be blamed for the loss, the blame clearly must lie within the group itself. And thus begins the finger-pointing and loud accusations of mistakes on the part of other players. Because no truly leet player could ever be wrong, or responsible for failure in the least way. Therefore it's someone else's fault by definition. This infighting quickly waxes operatic and frequently ends only when one or more group members rage log for the night. While I enjoy grouping with good players, I don't find malignant narcissism of this kind amusing, which is why I've always avoided playing in groups of this sort. The good RPs are not worth the juvenile fireworks in vent/teamspeak/discord.

Now to be sure, consigning these kinds of dysfunctional egoist players to a hell where they can savage one another with their giant pointy epeens instead of disrupting the game for the rest of us, definitely has a certain appeal to it.

But as others have said above, if this is to be done, it's absolutely key that no rps, bps, or anything else of lasting value be awarded for participation. In fact I think one could almost make a compelling argument that it should *cost* rps to play in the arena, on the grounds that the participants are derelict in their duties to defend their realm's frontier for however long they might spend there. Negative RPs, anyone?

Another problem with arena fights awarding RPs is that we'd quickly have players with maybe less ego but even fewer scruples farming one another to gain rank. You kill me, I kill you, we both win.

All in all it's probably best to just leave this idea on the WoW shelf where it probably belongs.

Tue 2 Oct 2018 7:35 PM by Anonymouse

Ingvold wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Oct 2018 3:45 AM
But as others have said above, if this is to be done, it's absolutely key that no rps, bps, or anything else of lasting value be awarded for participation. In fact I think one could almost make a compelling argument that it should *cost* rps to play in the arena, on the grounds that the participants are derelict in their duties to defend their realm's frontier for however long they might spend there. Negative RPs, anyone?

Interesting idea, I like it! "Too busy seeking 'glory' in the arena while our realm burns to the ground!? So be it...but pay up."

Tue 2 Oct 2018 8:54 PM by daocgod

its hilarious the salt this has caused. don't know why theres so many haters just because someone wants to play the game differently from you. sorry your thane didnt get invited.

Sat 6 Oct 2018 10:01 PM by Armsmancer

Ingvold wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Oct 2018 3:45 AM
This arena thing sounds like a clear case of "be careful what you wish for."

The obvious reason why "l33t" players, IRC kiddies, etc. would want an arena like this is so that they won't get added on and can always have their RAs up. (And never mind the fact that DAoC is a Realm RvR game, so that technically they're *supposed* to get added on if it makes their side lose.) A good, clean fight every time. Sounds great, right?

But what happens when such a group loses a fight and cannot blame adds, down RAs, or the like? Well, the moment factors outside the group cannot be blamed for the loss, the blame clearly must lie within the group itself. And thus begins the finger-pointing and loud accusations of mistakes on the part of other players. Because no truly leet player could ever be wrong, or responsible for failure in the least way. Therefore it's someone else's fault by definition. This infighting quickly waxes operatic and frequently ends only when one or more group members rage log for the night. While I enjoy grouping with good players, I don't find malignant narcissism of this kind amusing, which is why I've always avoided playing in groups of this sort. The good RPs are not worth the juvenile fireworks in vent/teamspeak/discord.

Now to be sure, consigning these kinds of dysfunctional egoist players to a hell where they can savage one another with their giant pointy epeens instead of disrupting the game for the rest of us, definitely has a certain appeal to it.

But as others have said above, if this is to be done, it's absolutely key that no rps, bps, or anything else of lasting value be awarded for participation. In fact I think one could almost make a compelling argument that it should *cost* rps to play in the arena, on the grounds that the participants are derelict in their duties to defend their realm's frontier for however long they might spend there. Negative RPs, anyone?

Another problem with arena fights awarding RPs is that we'd quickly have players with maybe less ego but even fewer scruples farming one another to gain rank. You kill me, I kill you, we both win.

All in all it's probably best to just leave this idea on the WoW shelf where it probably belongs.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

I don't plan to play arena at all and don't really care about it much even. But even if I wanted to do some devil's advocate and argue against it, I could muster up and levy a better a better justification than this garbage in the quote marks that sweepingly generalizes a group of players' preference for what types of battles they want to engage in with other like-minded players. Again this is the 5v5 dudes on a high school court bullying the smaller 2v2's happening on the side to come play the way they want to, and since they say "no thanks", they get shamed like this post is doing.

I can go join an arena game right now without developing any of the character traits you mentioned above. I can walk up, slam and rear chain them by hitting 4 on my keyboard then 6/7. At no point in this finger pushing do I develop some crazy ego you are putting forth above.

You could have just said Arena presents an opportunity for RP farming, and the rate to get to certain RR's shouldn't be too crazy in comparison to those out hunting in the frontiers, within certain margins. Nope, you decided to just attack the players that prefer consistent small fights, and that their brains release dopamine as they enjoy this a lot, that they are horrible, and the worst types of players out there. Please use your head next time, there's plenty of valid points and pros/cons you could do if you want to convince people without doing this.

Sat 6 Oct 2018 10:39 PM by Armsmancer

Anonymouse wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 7:35 PM
Ingvold wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Oct 2018 3:45 AM
But as others have said above, if this is to be done, it's absolutely key that no rps, bps, or anything else of lasting value be awarded for participation. In fact I think one could almost make a compelling argument that it should *cost* rps to play in the arena, on the grounds that the participants are derelict in their duties to defend their realm's frontier for however long they might spend there. Negative RPs, anyone?

Interesting idea, I like it! "Too busy seeking 'glory' in the arena while our realm burns to the ground!? So be it...but pay up."

Double standards everywhere. Is this same metric/justification used for people who want to craft or just some necro who wants to farm wights, or literally any other activity than going into the fz? Nope, but don't be enjoying yourselves in X activity, only Y activity, and they both share the trait of "not currently pvp'ing in frontiers" , but X will be different than Y, because reasons.

Sun 7 Oct 2018 6:06 PM by Anonymouse

Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Oct 2018 10:39 PM
Anonymouse wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 7:35 PM
Ingvold wrote: ↑
Mon 1 Oct 2018 3:45 AM
But as others have said above, if this is to be done, it's absolutely key that no rps, bps, or anything else of lasting value be awarded for participation. In fact I think one could almost make a compelling argument that it should *cost* rps to play in the arena, on the grounds that the participants are derelict in their duties to defend their realm's frontier for however long they might spend there. Negative RPs, anyone?

Interesting idea, I like it! "Too busy seeking 'glory' in the arena while our realm burns to the ground!? So be it...but pay up."

Double standards everywhere. Is this same metric/justification used for people who want to craft or just some necro who wants to farm wights, or literally any other activity than going into the fz? Nope, but don't be enjoying yourselves in X activity, only Y activity, and they both share the trait of "not currently pvp'ing in frontiers" , but X will be different than Y, because reasons.

I wasn't taking such a narcissistic perspective as you were. Frankly, I don't care how you play the game, nor anything else about you. You do you, boo.

I was trying to express an opinion suggesting that, regardless of what rule set this freeshard chooses to take, rewarding realm points through gameplay that fundamentally breaks from the foundation that the entire game was based on (tri-realm combat) would be one that would likely deter myself (and many others) from playing the server in the first place. That's all.

You Armsmancer, per usual, are triggered by these opinions as if they're personal attacks again you and/or the community at large. Well let me tell you, sir, that you are alone in your saga seeking the higher moral authority of a DAoC freeshard. You, of course, are welcome to your opinions, and I don't doubt you will respond to this post. But I just want you to know, and I want everyone here reading this to know I've told you, that you are a turd.

I wasn't sure at first if you were a real turd, or just a guy pretending to be a turd to get a rise out of folks on the board. If the latter, you do a marvelous job of not breaking turd-character, and your post history is a fine record of such commitment to craft. If, however, this is your true turd-form, I look forward to continuing to offend you in the future. Hell, I may even go Alb just to troll you now!

Mon 8 Oct 2018 4:32 PM by Armsmancer

Anonymouse wrote: ↑
Sun 7 Oct 2018 6:06 PM
Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Sat 6 Oct 2018 10:39 PM
Anonymouse wrote: ↑
Tue 2 Oct 2018 7:35 PM
Interesting idea, I like it! "Too busy seeking 'glory' in the arena while our realm burns to the ground!? So be it...but pay up."

Double standards everywhere. Is this same metric/justification used for people who want to craft or just some necro who wants to farm wights, or literally any other activity than going into the fz? Nope, but don't be enjoying yourselves in X activity, only Y activity, and they both share the trait of "not currently pvp'ing in frontiers" , but X will be different than Y, because reasons.

I wasn't taking such a narcissistic perspective as you were. Frankly, I don't care how you play the game, nor anything else about you. You do you, boo.

I was trying to express an opinion suggesting that, regardless of what rule set this freeshard chooses to take, rewarding realm points through gameplay that fundamentally breaks from the foundation that the entire game was based on (tri-realm combat) would be one that would likely deter myself (and many others) from playing the server in the first place. That's all.

You Armsmancer, per usual, are triggered by these opinions as if they're personal attacks again you and/or the community at large. Well let me tell you, sir, that you are alone in your saga seeking the higher moral authority of a DAoC freeshard. You, of course, are welcome to your opinions, and I don't doubt you will respond to this post. But I just want you to know, and I want everyone here reading this to know I've told you, that you are a turd.

I wasn't sure at first if you were a real turd, or just a guy pretending to be a turd to get a rise out of folks on the board. If the latter, you do a marvelous job of not breaking turd-character, and your post history is a fine record of such commitment to craft. If, however, this is your true turd-form, I look forward to continuing to offend you in the future. Hell, I may even go Alb just to troll you now!

"Too busy seeking 'glory' in the arena while our realm burns to the ground?"

"You do you, boo."

pick one

rest of your post is https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

boring responses lately can't anyone use their brain a bit and muster up something better this is ez mode debating

Tue 9 Oct 2018 6:13 PM by Brokenstring

This arena idea needs to go back to WoW. Unless if the group who loses, loses RPs. I'd love to hear the discords of those teams that lose 1800 RPs for a loss. Yummy.

Tue 9 Oct 2018 11:12 PM by Ganaka

This server won't have the large player base to support multiple end-game scenarios. Frontiers, Arena, ___, pick one and stick to it. ... /My2copper.

Tue 9 Oct 2018 11:18 PM by Falken

Ganaka wrote: ↑
Tue 9 Oct 2018 11:12 PM
This server won't have the large player base to support multiple end-game scenarios. Frontiers, Arena, ___, pick one and stick to it. ... /My2copper.

^^^ This

We aren't some huge theme park MMO with a giant player base, options are great but it's going to create a ghost town effect in the other areas of the game unless there is constant revolving events or some attraction to each element on its own. Frontiers are already empty of RvR with the only other option being PvE/Crafting/Alt leveling, so I'd rather not drag people interested in RvR away from where the RvR should be focused.

Fri 12 Oct 2018 7:17 AM by Qri

please dont implement it

Fri 12 Oct 2018 9:30 AM by Renork

I for one applaud the team for exploring other avenues and not sticking to the "classical" mentality. Uthgard is still available to play for the oldschool hardcore classic lovers, so I'm not sure why even play here when a server that caters to that mentality exists.

Certain tweaks can be made of course. Maybe make it available only if the population hits a certain threshold (off hours/non-peak) and make it unavailable once the population goes back to "normal" levels. Maybe make it so that there is also no RP gain from the arena, etc.

Mon 15 Oct 2018 8:36 AM by Palad1n

Honestly I would rather see an arena as something to test your mettle against others but with no rewards. I believe the focus should be on ways to improve and entice players at all lvl ranges to fight in the BG's or Emain.

Creating an arena will take away from RvR, as all you will see are groups auto queuing day in / day out for quick fights that reward them with no risk of other groups or players coming across them in RvR. In essence, arenas would replace Emain and the BG's as why risk having other players or group roll up on you when you can get rewards in a controlled environment with no outside risks?

Mon 15 Oct 2018 4:38 PM by Brokenstring

Not Emain. The frontiers in general. Making Hadrian's a hot spot, or Snowdonia, or any other zone a hot spot at any given time is a way to keep the game a bit more interesting and fresh. Instead of having everyone always gather at Emain.

Realm tasks/RvR tasks and such are a good way to get this to happen.

Mon 15 Oct 2018 9:07 PM by defiasbandit

Brokenstring wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Oct 2018 4:38 PM
Not Emain. The frontiers in general. Making Hadrian's a hot spot, or Snowdonia, or any other zone a hot spot at any given time is a way to keep the game a bit more interesting and fresh. Instead of having everyone always gather at Emain.

Realm tasks/RvR tasks and such are a good way to get this to happen.

Agreed.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 8:31 PM by Armsmancer

Brokenstring wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Oct 2018 4:38 PM
Not Emain. The frontiers in general. Making Hadrian's a hot spot, or Snowdonia, or any other zone a hot spot at any given time is a way to keep the game a bit more interesting and fresh. Instead of having everyone always gather at Emain.

Realm tasks/RvR tasks and such are a good way to get this to happen.

Emain is popular because it is flat and easily avoidable aggro. People loathe going to Hadrians because all the hills and just overall annoying aggro in Alb OF. Mids sometimes even worse with high aggro in trees you can't see and also very hilly.

The suggestion that it is more "interesting" to deal with things that are annoying by nature like the aggro and LOS hills, is self evident and poorly argued for here, over and over. Nobody can't put their finger on how exactly it is "better" to go fight at the Hadrians AMG vs the Emain AMG. Left to their own devices players are doing what they want, at the rate they want. I don't get the tinkering everyone wants to do here. The flatter zone is easier to navigate and each realm freely chooses where to port to and they overwhelming, big shocker, go to the zone that doesn't have tons of aggro and stupid hilly design to get to a pvp fight.

The only tangible thing that the diversity of realm tasks has given is it clears out the stealth zerg that takes over AMG/MMG, aside from that I think it's a stretch to say dying after running 10mins to AMG in Hadrians vs. 5 mins in Emain, as an alb at least is somehow better because it was more diverse, or reasons, or something. There's times the task is out in Hadrians and people will simply just wait for the next one because you've increased the burden of travel time, so now instead of having those folks out there in emain at least, now they are just afk or doing something else or may log out since sometimes no idea how long it will take to complete. All these everyone isn't factoring in to anything, they're going with the much less convincing argument that going to a snow area instead of a green area will generate more people into the frontier, which to me is a bit funny because you are adding travel time to die in snow instead of on grass.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 8:44 PM by defiasbandit

Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 8:31 PM
Brokenstring wrote: ↑
Mon 15 Oct 2018 4:38 PM
Not Emain. The frontiers in general. Making Hadrian's a hot spot, or Snowdonia, or any other zone a hot spot at any given time is a way to keep the game a bit more interesting and fresh. Instead of having everyone always gather at Emain.

Realm tasks/RvR tasks and such are a good way to get this to happen.

Emain is popular because it is flat and easily avoidable aggro. People loathe going to Hadrians because all the hills and just overall annoying aggro in Alb OF. Mids sometimes even worse with high aggro in trees you can't see and also very hilly.

The suggestion that it is more "interesting" to deal with things that are annoying by nature like the aggro and LOS hills, is self evident and poorly argued for here, over and over. Nobody can't put their finger on how exactly it is "better" to go fight at the Hadrians AMG vs the Emain AMG. Left to their own devices players are doing what they want, at the rate they want. I don't get the tinkering everyone wants to do here. The flatter zone is easier to navigate and each realm freely chooses where to port to and they overwhelming, big shocker, go to the zone that doesn't have tons of aggro and stupid hilly design to get to a pvp fight.

The only tangible thing that the diversity of realm tasks has given is it clears out the stealth zerg that takes over AMG/MMG, aside from that I think it's a stretch to say dying after running 10mins to AMG in Hadrians vs. 5 mins in Emain, as an alb at least is somehow better because it was more diverse, or reasons, or something. There's times the task is out in Hadrians and people will simply just wait for the next one because you've increased the burden of travel time, so now instead of having those folks out there in emain at least, now they are just afk or doing something else or may log out since sometimes no idea how long it will take to complete. All these everyone isn't factoring in to anything, they're going with the much less convincing argument that going to a snow area instead of a green area will generate more people into the frontier, which to me is a bit funny because you are adding travel time to die in snow instead of on grass.

Albion frontiers are one of the weakest aspects of old DAOC. Pennine Mountains is just the worst zone in the game, but at least the devs are turning some of the mobs neutral. I wonder if having the tasks in Snowdonia or Forest Sauvage would be better. I would be ok with running across multiple zones to reach a task.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 10:07 PM by Armsmancer

With all the time it takes to rebuff I'm of the personal opinion of running after all that for about 10 mins to maybe find a fight could be a bridge too far for people and there is wiggle room to have that as one margin and insta-arena fights as the other margin.

You were 100% at least with Pennine being the worst zone ever.

The removal/neutralizing of most mobs definitely helps, but the travel times I'm quoting are just hastener speeds back to the area people fight at, after these changes. Keep in mind they just don't fight at the zone border, you gotta run past taco bell and then choose a milegate, which once you've lost speed is a slow drudgery. Groups with speeders this is hardly a thing and minstrels make it out there and its bearable, but if I get hit by some cave faerie because I'm avoiding the 8 mans on the main drag passed taco bell I immediately get a sense of dread and I start feeling how slow I'm moving and really if I die I'm not coming back. Long travels promote the "oh well now I'm on the participation list" mentality which will get someone like my Armsman out there once unless I get speed. With Emain myself or a Mid player has a much smaller travel burden to get back to AMF/MMF emain.

With all the times to rebuff and regroup after death or at task start, I'll conclude again by saying it is gonna be too much to ask to get me repeatedly going out there over and over, especially if steamrolled or amensia-ganked with a group. I'm not alone others leave the group right after getting on the participation list.

Some of this is my style of playing but the travel times are the objective thing I want to stress, rest was just an insight and not an argument for anything or changes. All the "get more people out to the frontiers" talk falls apart because yeah it got me out there, but it goes against the spirit of what you really want because you don't want me to die and not come back. Lots of us only have so long to play and after buffing and all that it really feels like a drag sometimes with some tasks. I'm not sure there is a good solution to this to accommodate solo/smallman/FG but a solo minstrel goes as fast as a 8man group with a minstrel and even then its annoying to go out that far, let alone those with just hastener speed and the hills, the damn hills.

Tue 16 Oct 2018 10:16 PM by defiasbandit

There is not much the devs can do except make more mobs neutral or use other Albion frontier zones. It is Mythics fault for making those zones.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:24 AM by Armsmancer

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 10:16 PM
There is not much the devs can do except make more mobs neutral or use other Albion frontier zones. It is Mythics fault for making those zones.

Which makes it a given and just gives more weight to my points about Emain is hot because its easy, not because its green or we care about anything else. It's mostly flat, there's some ambush spots, a few trees for soloer's to hide behind but still see the field of battle, and so much fewer LOS issues. Even if they removed all the mobs it's just an annoying navigation ride to get from Snow to the MGs in Hadrians that to be honest I've attended maybe 2-3 of the Hadrian fights and it all came down to travel time in addition to the LOS and annoying terrain as why I did so few.

Emain's been there for years tons of dead bodies falling there and there's nothing wrong with it. It's not even the end all be all now because we got the domination and keep takes, but when it reverts to more boring times/lower pop for sure I'm glad emain is still there or I'd have no way of finding someone really, I'm not going to rush up to a keep with 30 mids inside hoping to find a small fight, Emain offers me a quick spot to go pick a fight or two, and Hadrians just is ugly, boring, lots of aggro mobs around, etc. Only saving grace would be if we owned beno and could tele to it like NF so that us/mids/hibs all have about same travel time.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:25 AM by defiasbandit

Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:24 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 10:16 PM
There is not much the devs can do except make more mobs neutral or use other Albion frontier zones. It is Mythics fault for making those zones.

Which makes it a given and just gives more weight to my points about Emain is hot because its easy, not because its green or we care about anything else. It's mostly flat, there's some ambush spots, a few trees for soloer's to hide behind but still see the field of battle, and so much fewer LOS issues. Even if they removed all the mobs it's just an annoying navigation ride to get from Snow to the MGs in Hadrians that to be honest I've attended maybe 2-3 of the Hadrian fights and it all came down to travel time in addition to the LOS and annoying terrain as why I did so few.

Emain's been there for years tons of dead bodies falling there and there's nothing wrong with it. It's not even the end all be all now because we got the domination and keep takes, but when it reverts to more boring times/lower pop for sure I'm glad emain is still there or I'd have no way of finding someone really, I'm not going to rush up to a keep with 30 mids inside hoping to find a small fight, Emain offers me a quick spot to go pick a fight or two, and Hadrians just is ugly, boring, lots of aggro mobs around, etc. Only saving grace would be if we owned beno and could tele to it like NF so that us/mids/hibs all have about same travel time.

I agree with you, but what is the solution? Remove Albion Realm tasks? We can't have teleporting to keeps.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:34 AM by Armsmancer

defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:25 AM
Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:24 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Tue 16 Oct 2018 10:16 PM
There is not much the devs can do except make more mobs neutral or use other Albion frontier zones. It is Mythics fault for making those zones.

Which makes it a given and just gives more weight to my points about Emain is hot because its easy, not because its green or we care about anything else. It's mostly flat, there's some ambush spots, a few trees for soloer's to hide behind but still see the field of battle, and so much fewer LOS issues. Even if they removed all the mobs it's just an annoying navigation ride to get from Snow to the MGs in Hadrians that to be honest I've attended maybe 2-3 of the Hadrian fights and it all came down to travel time in addition to the LOS and annoying terrain as why I did so few.

Emain's been there for years tons of dead bodies falling there and there's nothing wrong with it. It's not even the end all be all now because we got the domination and keep takes, but when it reverts to more boring times/lower pop for sure I'm glad emain is still there or I'd have no way of finding someone really, I'm not going to rush up to a keep with 30 mids inside hoping to find a small fight, Emain offers me a quick spot to go pick a fight or two, and Hadrians just is ugly, boring, lots of aggro mobs around, etc. Only saving grace would be if we owned beno and could tele to it like NF so that us/mids/hibs all have about same travel time.

I agree with you, but what is the solution? Remove Albion Realm tasks? We can't have teleporting to keeps.

It's natural to want to change things but even if they didn't make custom changes you have to realize people will play here. So far they've added incentive after incentive, but it seems like for some it is never enough. It isn't broken, I'd try and move away from this thing that it's always needing something. A problem hasn't presented itself that is a big enough issue to warrant sweeping changes. Sometimes it is best to let them put their vision up, launch it, and they will adjust accordingly based off the feedback and trends of people logging in.

My points above were mostly that if they put a task up that is too long or insurmountable, I didn't bring up but we've all had the keep rushes you run there and die and see 4FG mids inside and maybe there's like 3 albs in the zone after 20 mins, that keep isn't coming down by us albs there, so now there's nothing left to do, and if I go to emain it is empty now because everyone is on the mid area trying to gank or fight there.

There are unintended consequences. Yeah you made the keep quest hoping keep takes, lord room fights, rams going up would all happen. What it usually turns out to is small man/8man roaming for stragglers.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:38 AM by defiasbandit

Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:34 AM
defiasbandit wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:25 AM
Armsmancer wrote: ↑
Wed 17 Oct 2018 12:24 AM
Which makes it a given and just gives more weight to my points about Emain is hot because its easy, not because its green or we care about anything else. It's mostly flat, there's some ambush spots, a few trees for soloer's to hide behind but still see the field of battle, and so much fewer LOS issues. Even if they removed all the mobs it's just an annoying navigation ride to get from Snow to the MGs in Hadrians that to be honest I've attended maybe 2-3 of the Hadrian fights and it all came down to travel time in addition to the LOS and annoying terrain as why I did so few.

Emain's been there for years tons of dead bodies falling there and there's nothing wrong with it. It's not even the end all be all now because we got the domination and keep takes, but when it reverts to more boring times/lower pop for sure I'm glad emain is still there or I'd have no way of finding someone really, I'm not going to rush up to a keep with 30 mids inside hoping to find a small fight, Emain offers me a quick spot to go pick a fight or two, and Hadrians just is ugly, boring, lots of aggro mobs around, etc. Only saving grace would be if we owned beno and could tele to it like NF so that us/mids/hibs all have about same travel time.

I agree with you, but what is the solution? Remove Albion Realm tasks? We can't have teleporting to keeps.

It's natural to want to change things but even if they didn't make custom changes you have to realize people will play here. So far they've added incentive after incentive, but it seems like for some it is never enough. It isn't broken, I'd try and move away from this thing that it's always needing something. A problem hasn't presented itself that is a big enough issue to warrant sweeping changes. Sometimes it is best to let them put their vision up, launch it, and they will adjust accordingly based off the feedback and trends of people logging in.

My points above were mostly that if they put a task up that is too long or insurmountable, I didn't bring up but we've all had the keep rushes you run there and die and see 4FG mids inside and maybe there's like 3 albs in the zone after 20 mins, that keep isn't coming down by us albs there, so now there's nothing left to do, and if I go to emain it is empty now because everyone is on the mid area trying to gank or fight there.

There are unintended consequences. Yeah you made the keep quest hoping keep takes, lord room fights, rams going up would all happen. What it usually turns out to is small man/8man roaming for stragglers.

Why do you think I am constantly suggesting ways to create RvR in zones other than the task zone? I have discussed at length ways to incentivize non task zones, so players who don't want to participate inactivities like the Albion realm tasks don't have to. Feel free to offer feedback in those topics.

When Albion keep take tasks go on and on its very boring. I am sure there are many others who would agree.

Wed 17 Oct 2018 3:14 PM by Brokenstring

Plenty of great fights in Alb lands on Uthgard. Alb frontiers can be a real blast.