Planned Keep System Changes - Phoenix Freeshard

Copied from the internal forum, not too detailed yet as it's not exactly ready to be implemented but just a pointer in what direction we want to go.

We decided to give rp for keeps, here some concrete suggestions for the entire keep stuff. The goal is to reward keep takes and to make them somewhat special. I don't think anyone would want this to constantly happen: people raiding a keep, running away, letting it get taken again and repeating that over and over.

First some suggestions on how to make keeps harder / have more time so that the later rp rewards make more sense.

1) Make unclaimed level 1 keeps like currently claimed level 5 keeps, should be about orange red mobs - that means we kinda have level 5 - 15 keeps.

2) Remove the separation between keep level and door level and just always upgrade the door when the keep upgrades.

3) Realm wide announcement when a door goes down

4) Make lords a lot harder / give them at least a lot more hp.

And then about the actual rp stuff:

There is a somewhat large combat area around a keep, whenever someone dies an rp giving death here some % (e.g. 25%) extra rp are put in a pool and a 3 - 5min timer for the keep is reset. Damage dealt / healing done etc. while within this area is added to a list. When the timer is up or the keep is taken everyone who is in the dmg / heal list gets rewarded. Regardless of having released or not.
If the timer is up and keep is not taken this counts as a defender victory. If the keep is taken this counts as an attacker victory.
Winner gets 75% of the pool, looser 25%.
Actual reward based on group participation like xp.

There should additionally be a rather high base rp amount given for successful raids / defenses, this amount should however only be at 12.5% initially and increase to 100% by an additional 12.5% per enemy player. That means an undefended keep is worth only a small amount and defending against only 1 player would also not give much extra, the defense side here should probably also check other stuff like # guards killed etc.

Tue 10 Jul 2018 6:55 PM by Mac

I agree with making keeps harder to capture. I also like having the doors level up automatically when the keep levels up. Lets make keep fights happen more frequently than simply PvD (Player vs Doors).

Tue 10 Jul 2018 8:03 PM by Ceen

Doors should level automatically like in NF.

Tue 10 Jul 2018 9:23 PM by Fiore

Thanks i waited for this a long time. Can you still Upgrade Doors to make them even harder ?

Wed 11 Jul 2018 6:56 AM by Tree

Also consider allowing defenders to log out and log back in inside a keep, even if its under attack. That would result in more heated battles against real players.

Wed 11 Jul 2018 8:53 AM by Pao

Tree wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 6:56 AM
Also consider allowing defenders to log out and log back in inside a keep, even if its under attack. That would result in more heated battles against real players.

Yes, thats good idea. Since there are guild buffs too. Guilds will really defend their keep.

Relic keeps on the other hand should be always defended by people going there.

Wed 11 Jul 2018 9:19 AM by Tree

Pao wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 8:53 AM
Tree wrote: ↑
Wed 11 Jul 2018 6:56 AM
Also consider allowing defenders to log out and log back in inside a keep, even if its under attack. That would result in more heated battles against real players.

Yes, thats good idea. Since there are guild buffs too. Guilds will really defend their keep.

Relic keeps on the other hand should be always defended by people going there.

I also considered only allowing people of the guild that claimed the keep to log back in there, but that would just result in players pooling in very huge guilds essentially devalueing playing in small guilds just with friends. But yeah thats what I was thinking. In the classic times I always had my Void Eld parked in our guild keep, just so I can defend. Later on they changed it, because people were abusing the mechanic with stealthers.
To make it work, you will have too keep the port of characters of a different realm, when they try to log in inside a keep their realm does not own.

And obviously no login inside besieged relic keeps, you have to always run there.

Thu 12 Jul 2018 6:59 AM by aso

if you give rps for player vs door
it will end up like on live

the nobrain zerg mentality

look what happened on live

ppl wait for zerg, if there is no zerg they dont go rvr zone

thin very well about it

Thu 12 Jul 2018 7:20 AM by Hedien

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Tue 10 Jul 2018 6:07 PM
There is a somewhat large combat area around a keep, whenever someone dies an rp giving death here some % (e.g. 25%) extra rp are put in a pool and a 3 - 5min timer for the keep is reset. Damage dealt / healing done etc. while within this area is added to a list. When the timer is up or the keep is taken everyone who is in the dmg / heal list gets rewarded. Regardless of having released or not.
If the timer is up and keep is not taken this counts as a defender victory. If the keep is taken this counts as an attacker victory.
Winner gets 75% of the pool, looser 25%.
Actual reward based on group participation like xp.

There should additionally be a rather high base rp amount given for successful raids / defenses, this amount should however only be at 12.5% initially and increase to 100% by an additional 12.5% per enemy player. That means an undefended keep is worth only a small amount and defending against only 1 player would also not give much extra, the defense side here should probably also check other stuff like # guards killed etc.

This reminds me of Warhammer online system. It worked pretty well, if you look at the freeshard RoR, you can see people very frequently engaging each other on keeps as they know there is a rp / bag reward.

Difference is : with daoc, if there is a fight on beno - people just won't go. It is too far, and it will become pve.
Keep accessibility is a big one.

Hed.

Thu 12 Jul 2018 6:07 PM by megatron

I always thought that keeps should be a place where the guild that owns it hangs out and protects it.

Maybe make it so that ... When a guild takes ownership of a keep, upon keep level 5 a passive xp award is given to guild members at the keep on a regular interval. The xp award would increase with the keep level. I'd extend this award to Guild members located within 10k units of the keep to allow them to go out and xp near the keep.

Or..

Place a really nice xp camp right outside each keep...kinda like the grannys at DC. (except that camp sucks.).

Sun 15 Jul 2018 12:34 AM by Budikah

Some random tidbits and I'll add more later...

- losing connecting during a siege and logging back in and getting ported sucks. Anything to alleviate this would be nice.

- Keep Lord shooting arrows through walls and essentially having no LoS is not fun, particularly for a Healer who inevitably gets aggro. This essentially goes for all Ranged NPCs around the keep.

- Keep economic warfare in mind (depending on how overall server economy does) because it's a valid tactic I've seen used to abuse doors and slowly whittle away at the doors.

- Any "guild" perks for keeps should be considered for Alliances as well. For their own reasons, people organize into odd groups and may not want to leave their emblem/name behind. Sometimes guilds are EU based with a few members in NA times that want to stick with their EU buddies but play with NA guilds in their alliance. Extending any "guild" benefits to alliance members as well might be something to think twice about - of course making sure it doesn't open up more alleyways for abuse.

From my experience almost everywhere, most people don't really enjoy PvE'ing keep doors for RPS. It isn't fun. People want defense and asymetrical siege combat in and around the keep, not to continually blow through empty keeps for small pools of RPs.

The only time I've ever hoped a keep was empty is when I wanted to take as many keeps as possible for a relic raid.

Mon 23 Jul 2018 2:17 PM by Chaskha

Depending on the worth-RPs timer, I can see this slightly abused to bolster the Keep-Pool by a couple of friends trying to get in to defend while a fg is taking the keep.
EG: A dozen of mids on Dun Ailinne, a duo, let's say bard+animist rush & die, come back & die, come back ... if the timer is reset all the time and the pool grows, it is potentially abusable under radar (much more than a duo that would get killed at the same place 8 times by the same people - which I believe is detected easily)?

Maybe I am paranoid but it's better to say it out loud in case I'm being realistic, it happens !

Wed 22 Aug 2018 1:49 PM by Shadanwolf

Every keep needs to have at least one other way to enter the keep ....in addition to the main gate. This is especially valuable for visible characters to enable them to enter the keep to defend.

Thu 23 Aug 2018 6:19 PM by Shadanwolf

Consider rewarding players who upgrade keep doors,

Thu 23 Aug 2018 6:45 PM by Kralin

Shadanwolf wrote: ↑
Thu 23 Aug 2018 6:19 PM
Consider rewarding players who upgrade keep doors,

And maybe a title to go along with it!

Sun 26 Aug 2018 7:13 PM by kpax

Great idea!!!And what would make all that perfect is to have a similar system like warmap ,where u see a keep buring when the gate gets hit. That way keeps will be way more attractive for people and the enemys would have some realistic time to react on that attack. Otherwise u need to hope that someone who claimed the keep spreads some info,which is mostly not the case, what uthgard showed. Otherwise it will be boring Zerg raiding the keeps with way less challenge.

Imo the porting abilty to keeps was the best thing happened to make Keepfights so much fun. I mean u guys are creative. Why not make a similar system like that. Make each Map 1 keep Portable, so the enemys can get to defending their keeps faster. And it will make raiding the Portable Keeps way harder and way more fun.