PvE Changes

Started 11 Jun 2021
by gruenesschaf
in Planned Changes
Fri 11 Jun 2021 11:42 PM by jonny290
#163765
If the idea is to have camps that are always the same con, what motivation would a solo player - let alone a group - have to ever go to one of the camps that are perma blue, green, or even yellow? Everybody will concentrate on the oj-purple camps. Seems like half the area of each zone would still be perma dead, just for different reasons.
Sat 12 Jun 2021 12:12 AM by mhuff13
#163766
jonny290 wrote:
Fri 11 Jun 2021 11:42 PM
If the idea is to have camps that are always the same con, what motivation would a solo player - let alone a group - have to ever go to one of the camps that are perma blue, green, or even yellow? Everybody will concentrate on the oj-purple camps. Seems like half the area of each zone would still be perma dead, just for different reasons.

To be fair lots of 50s still farm pygmys in Alb and they are blue for gold farming specifically. If the other camps end up like that, this whole thing will be a HUGE positive.
Sat 12 Jun 2021 12:27 AM by Tulpa
#163767
jonny290 wrote:
Fri 11 Jun 2021 7:43 PM
0ri wrote:
Fri 11 Jun 2021 7:30 PM
Seems the complaints are mostly around lower income generation, but I see this as a non-issue. The misunderstanding is that if x costs y today, then x will still cost y tomorrow when no one can afford y. That's just not how that works. If no one can afford y, it won't sell. Either they reduce their price, or someone else puts the same item for less and makes the sale. If, for whatever reason, that doesn't happen, then the economy is unhealthy - but this change would not be the cause.

This is where we get into economics chat. Specifically, a deflationary economy

The whole DAOC economy isn't player driven. Recharges will still cost 10 gold apiece. It'll still cost 6 plat or whatever to LGM spellcrafting. MP plate has a fixed cost to produce (accounting a bit for RNG on crafting quality, of course). If you reduce the money supply but keep those costs fixed, people aren't going to start selling MP plate at a loss; they're going to stop making and selling it. This could lead to a heavy reduction in such items' availability and cause real problems with templating if you aren't already plat-rich.

This is already a problem on Hib MP scale is hugely inflated due to lack of supply....
Tulpa, Tulpin, Tulpion, Tulpamist, Tulpent, Tulpanter..... you get the idea.
Lurikeen Death Cult
Sat 12 Jun 2021 12:28 AM by Tulpa
#163768
Jingo NZ wrote:
Fri 11 Jun 2021 8:02 PM
Tknova wrote:
Fri 11 Jun 2021 7:51 PM
Could always just do the changes in dungeons, kinda like how instances/catacombs was that would be fun!
It would definitely make people use them again, I rarely see ppl in them besides DF

I agree it is a good idea to pick some areas to first implement this change and then slowly expand from there.

Start in SI because its mostly broken loot tables anyway there - Unless the recent self loot changed that... I never went back LOL
Tulpa, Tulpin, Tulpion, Tulpamist, Tulpent, Tulpanter..... you get the idea.
Lurikeen Death Cult
Sat 12 Jun 2021 12:53 AM by Tulpa
#163770
Uthred wrote:
Fri 11 Jun 2021 11:16 PM
To answer your questions:
1. Farm the old or the new way. Same as before. Kill mobs, farm items, etc.
2. We never said that this change is to get rid of money. We only said, that afk/macro farming will be a bit harder which is a welcomed side effect.
3. Farming with what class? Farming which mobs? Farming which items? Farming DS? Cant answer this question properly.
4. See #1. Any player, no matter if new or old will be able to make money easily.

As I said before: This change is only to help new players / lower pop time zones to easily find a group. After this patch is live, there still will be more than enough spots for any kind of farming. In addition you will still have the amazing spots in DF like Hulks/Shredders/Knights/ Dia Loop to name just a few, plus all the other spots in PoC, SH or even Frontiers if you dont like scaling. Also PLing should actually become more easy now, as every toon in a group is now useful and will make it even faster than before.

Many reactions in this thread remind of the announcement of the personal loot change. A lot of "the end is near" statements without even knowing how it will turn out and how it will look like in detail.

Maybe an example will help you to understand:
Lyonesse is one of the most popular pve zones and has about 1000 mobs in it. It is just a wild guess but I think that maybe at max only 600 mobs are really used in there while the rest will only be killed very rarely. This has different reasons (xp items, amount of mobs per spot, different colours of mobs in one spot, etc). After the change, one spot will always have the same colour to you, you wont run into the problem that you cant "use" this spot because of level differences. Also any spot will be as good as the other. You will have way more options where to go.

And this is only Lyonesse. Just think of all the classic zones that are a wasteland now, where no one is going at the moment. Any of them will become a viable option for you. Mobs that are now lvl 20 and will only be killed once in a level up cycle are after the change a viable option to go there again at higher level because they will stay the same con to you. Keep in mind that any low level spot, that you cant kill at lvl 50 because of being grey to you, will then be another great opportunity for you. You will have "millions" of new possiblities to earn xp, to make money or to farm items.

I like it!

It will be interesting to see what happening with mobs with named loot on both frontiers and in PvE areas..... Those are a major source of salvage $$$.
Tulpa, Tulpin, Tulpion, Tulpamist, Tulpent, Tulpanter..... you get the idea.
Lurikeen Death Cult
Sat 12 Jun 2021 1:26 AM by Tamvolan
#163771
Uthred wrote:
Fri 11 Jun 2021 11:16 PM
First of all: TOA is not an option as it is already in use for different events, The Arena and as a Staff Zone to test things, etc.

Second: This scaling will be active in all PvE only zones. Or in different words: you can still farm in the Frontiers (yes, I know it is risky out there), in PoC, in SH and in DF. Besides the chance of getting killed in the Frontier is pretty high, at least in PoC, SH and DF it should be quite easy to farm the old way.

Third: Why are you so sure, that solo farming is dead after this? Do you have any proof for this? Do you have any experience with our scaling? Do you know how the mob camps will look like? Do you already know how the new mini-events will work? Do you know how many mobs you have to kill for that? Do you know if every spot will be like that? Plus: Is solo farming really becoming dead just because of you having to change the spot from time to time?

Lasrael_Hellblade wrote:
Fri 11 Jun 2021 9:57 PM
1. How do we make money to fund our templates? Most of us don't bother with DS (as an inexperienced player to DS is pretty much not welcomed and/or geared for it. It's an elite man's instance. As it should be.)
2. How much currency in the game economy is going to be lost when this change happens? (i.e. money runs out and crafting stops, feathers will quit being bought, etc.)
3. Is the event participation going to on par/be better to make money than farming?
4. While a new player will have a chance to get a group, is he/she going to be able to fund a template afterwords?

To answer your questions:
1. Farm the old or the new way. Same as before. Kill mobs, farm items, etc.
2. We never said that this change is to get rid of money. We only said, that afk/macro farming will be a bit harder which is a welcomed side effect.
3. Farming with what class? Farming which mobs? Farming which items? Farming DS? Cant answer this question properly.
4. See #1. Any player, no matter if new or old will be able to make money easily.

As I said before: This change is only to help new players / lower pop time zones to easily find a group. After this patch is live, there still will be more than enough spots for any kind of farming. In addition you will still have the amazing spots in DF like Hulks/Shredders/Knights/ Dia Loop to name just a few, plus all the other spots in PoC, SH or even Frontiers if you dont like scaling. Also PLing should actually become more easy now, as every toon in a group is now useful and will make it even faster than before.

Many reactions in this thread remind of the announcement of the personal loot change. A lot of "the end is near" statements without even knowing how it will turn out and how it will look like in detail.

Maybe an example will help you to understand:
Lyonesse is one of the most popular pve zones and has about 1000 mobs in it. It is just a wild guess but I think that maybe at max only 600 mobs are really used in there while the rest will only be killed very rarely. This has different reasons (xp items, amount of mobs per spot, different colours of mobs in one spot, etc). After the change, one spot will always have the same colour to you, you wont run into the problem that you cant "use" this spot because of level differences. Also any spot will be as good as the other. You will have way more options where to go.

And this is only Lyonesse. Just think of all the classic zones that are a wasteland now, where no one is going at the moment. Any of them will become a viable option for you. Mobs that are now lvl 20 and will only be killed once in a level up cycle are after the change a viable option to go there again at higher level because they will stay the same con to you. Keep in mind that any low level spot, that you cant kill at lvl 50 because of being grey to you, will then be another great opportunity for you. You will have "millions" of new possiblities to earn xp, to make money or to farm items.

I'm still a little confused on how a mob is going to remain the same con, no matter what level I am... and I also still have the question of what happens to xp items? What voodoo do you do (lol), to make the mobs the same con? And, so I'm on the same page, there may be groups of mobs that stay the same con to you, no matter what level you are, BUT... they don't respawn except when some trigger happens? So, you can't park somewhere and farm endlessly (which I understand is the goal, to prevent the afk/macro farming)... But how far am I supposed to travel to get to the next cluster of that con mob? Out in the middle of nowhere, killing mobs, they're all gone, gotta go somewhere else... do I have to run back to stablemaster/teleporter, travel somewhere else, then run out into the middle of nowhere there? Just curious...
Sat 12 Jun 2021 5:53 AM by evert
#163777
As others have said it seems an easy solution to qq would be to implement this in dungeons for now, you can have fun with the bosses and make it a kind of mini-DS (no feathers but fun/rogs). If people love it you could then put it into SI zones maybe? And keep the “classic” experience in mainland.

In general I’m not against it but the details will have to be seen. I’m not a huge fan of the people with 17 temped 50s who seem to think you need to farm hours per week just to be able to play the game, but for a new player on a hybrid you do pretty much need to do a lot of farming just to get started, so it’s important to be careful about the effect on that.
Dwarf Fru
Sat 12 Jun 2021 7:00 AM by tdrew92
#163782
I’m interested to see how this pans out, the mechanic sounds incredibly clever and a huge amount of work so firstly, thank you for your efforts.

As a necro farmer myself, I’ll be interested to understand the participation tick and how long you’ll need to wait between pulls before the mobs respawn.

The critic in me would say that you are possibly altering the entire PVE mechanic of a 20 year old game which a lot of the population knows and loves. There is a huge portion of players who solely PVE and came to this server for exactly that so this may cause some upset.

Have you considered making use of the catacombs expansion and just incorporating those instances and applying your scaling mechanic and reward tick to the dungeon?
This would be much simpler for you as it’s an isolated instance area and they were already designed to give a task tick at completion of the dungeon. This, at the very least, could be a good testing method for you.
Sat 12 Jun 2021 7:14 AM by Talo
#163783
interesting vid about scaling in general: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX2dtfEuuWU
Sat 12 Jun 2021 10:24 AM by labra
#163788
Do you plan to set scaling mobs spots on every zones or in specific ones?
Like lough derg only blue con spots and lough gur only purple ones or every zones will have blue to purple spots?

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