RVR Rotation - Phoenix Freeshard

Instead of picking between the two type of RVR zone, I propose we have both.

RVR stays OF for the majority of the time, since that's how the server started. We are all used to it and started playing here cuz of it for the most part. However, it does get old and it sucks being stuck in port keep zone due to groups (Vis (PK) or stealth) blocking mile gates.

Every month, once a week or however long we bring in NF or a BG for the RVR map. Just to shake things up a bit. This way people can get their big keep raids going on or be comfortable in a RVR map that they know and are used too, or we can all be crammed into a BG for non stop slaughter fest (of course RP's would be reallocated depending on current zone.)

I think this kind of gives everyone what they want. No sense in losing people to something so silly. See'ing as this is a shard I do not see how this or a variant of this could not be implemented. Nor can I foresee anyone complaining about having both+

Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:30 AM by IamKaia

Sorry, it was advertised as a DAOC classic server taking 1.65 as a foundation, i came here to play classic, not NF.
I would hate what you suggest and i think it would further splinter the community. By trying to please everyone, you please nobody.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:52 AM by Sepplord

Sounds like a suggestion...and looking into the suggestion forum there are already two threads discussing this/a similar version of this.

You can get a few inputs from others regarding this there

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:37 AM by Tigerforce

IamKaia wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
Sorry, it was advertised as a DAOC classic server taking 1.65 as a foundation, i came here to play classic, not NF.
I would hate what you suggest and i think it would further splinter the community. By trying to please everyone, you please nobody.

Page says nothing about it being a "Classic" server, only what patch they picked to go with. That does not imply they are strictly a classic server or Uthgard Plus. They are their own creation and will evolve the game to the majority of input form the community (I would assume).

You are only disappointing yourself by labeling it something it's not.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:41 AM by IamKaia

Tigerforce wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:37 AM
IamKaia wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
Sorry, it was advertised as a DAOC classic server taking 1.65 as a foundation, i came here to play classic, not NF.
I would hate what you suggest and i think it would further splinter the community. By trying to please everyone, you please nobody.

Page says nothing about it being a "Classic" server, only what patch they picked to go with. That does not imply they are strictly a classic server or Uthgard Plus. They are their own creation and will evolve the game to the majority of input form the community (I would assume).

You are only disappointing yourself by labeling it something it's not.

Saying you take patch 1.65 as a base line strongly implies it's DAOC classic. Just have a read of the patchnotes yourself if you don't believe me. I don't see any mention of NF there, do you?

Furthermore, I think it's a "overly vocal minority" that keeps asking for NF, many people just did not even log this week all together because of the test

I am convinced NF would deal a hard blow to the server population.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:49 AM by jorora

IamKaia wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
Sorry, it was advertised as a DAOC classic server taking 1.65 as a foundation, i came here to play classic, not NF.
I would hate what you suggest and i think it would further splinter the community. By trying to please everyone, you please nobody.

With the NF RAs , i'm sorry, this server has never been a classic server properly speaking...
may be during the beta yes, but not anymore.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:57 AM by IamKaia

jorora wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:49 AM
IamKaia wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
Sorry, it was advertised as a DAOC classic server taking 1.65 as a foundation, i came here to play classic, not NF.
I would hate what you suggest and i think it would further splinter the community. By trying to please everyone, you please nobody.

With the NF RAs , i'm sorry, this server has never been a classic server properly speaking...
may be during the beta yes, but not anymore.

How is that an acceptable argument for NF frontiers? If anything its an argument against NF Ras and nothing else.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 12:13 PM by jorora

in this case personally i agree to keep OF but with RAs OF, and not this balancing porridge, where everyone has access to all.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 12:16 PM by IamKaia

jorora wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 12:13 PM
in this case personally i agree to keep OF but with RAs OF, and not this balancing porridge, where everyone has access to all.

i would agree 100% with that

Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:14 PM by Tigerforce

IamKaia wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:41 AM
Tigerforce wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:37 AM
IamKaia wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:30 AM
Sorry, it was advertised as a DAOC classic server taking 1.65 as a foundation, i came here to play classic, not NF.
I would hate what you suggest and i think it would further splinter the community. By trying to please everyone, you please nobody.

Page says nothing about it being a "Classic" server, only what patch they picked to go with. That does not imply they are strictly a classic server or Uthgard Plus. They are their own creation and will evolve the game to the majority of input form the community (I would assume).

You are only disappointing yourself by labeling it something it's not.

Saying you take patch 1.65 as a base line strongly implies it's DAOC classic. Just have a read of the patchnotes yourself if you don't believe me. I don't see any mention of NF there, do you?

Furthermore, I think it's a "overly vocal minority" that keeps asking for NF, many people just did not even log this week all together because of the test
I am convinced NF would deal a hard blow to the server population.

Well then it's subjective on whether a person interprets it as a Classic server or not.

I would not say the people asking for NF is the minority. Perhaps here on forums, but def not in the chat channels within the game. For every one person I see asking for OF, there's 2-3 who chime in about how and why NF is better. Take into account too not everyone who plays the game always get on the forums to see what's happening. Doesn't mean they're not dedicated players, does not mean they are a minority or majority.

I have only played this server for almost two months. On avg, from when I started, I have seen around 6-800 people on during prime and around 400 when it's "dead". During the first few days I noticed that recently spiked to over 1,500+ by far the most I've ever seen on. These are numbers I look at daily, even before NF or any news of it. This means even if the core number of "dedicated" players is 700, that number nearly doubled during times just due to NF coming out. That number did not dwindle because of NF coming out. Even if half of the "core 700" players left due to NF, with the amount that joined it would still be a greater number.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:24 PM by IamKaia

Tigerforce wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:14 PM
Well then it's subjective on whether a person interprets it as a Classic server or not.

I would not say the people asking for NF is the minority. Perhaps here on forums, but def not in the chat channels within the game. For every one person I see asking for OF, there's 2-3 who chime in about how and why NF is better. Take into account too not everyone who plays the game always get on the forums to see what's happening. Doesn't mean they're not dedicated players, does not mean they are a minority or majority.

I have only played this server for almost two months. On avg, from when I started, I have seen around 6-800 people on during prime and around 400 when it's "dead". During the first few days I noticed that recently spiked to over 1,500+ by far the most I've ever seen on. These are numbers I look at daily, even before NF or any news of it. This means even if the core number of "dedicated" players is 700, that number nearly doubled during times just due to NF coming out. That number did not dwindle because of NF coming out. Even if half of the "core 700" players left due to NF, with the amount that joined it would still be a greater number.

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

You're all kinds of wrong as per the actual server stats. Those are incorrect assumptions.

And its not subjective or interpretation when you say that you base yourself upon a patch lvl where OF is in place, to say that NF is out of place at that patch level. Come on man.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:33 PM by Vindicator

Tigerforce wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:20 AM
Instead of picking between the two type of RVR zone, I propose we have both.

RVR stays OF for the majority of the time, since that's how the server started. We are all used to it and started playing here cuz of it for the most part. However, it does get old and it sucks being stuck in port keep zone due to groups (Vis (PK) or stealth) blocking mile gates.

Every month, once a week or however long we bring in NF or a BG for the RVR map. Just to shake things up a bit. This way people can get their big keep raids going on or be comfortable in a RVR map that they know and are used too, or we can all be crammed into a BG for non stop slaughter fest (of course RP's would be reallocated depending on current zone.)

I think this kind of gives everyone what they want. No sense in losing people to something so silly. See'ing as this is a shard I do not see how this or a variant of this could not be implemented. Nor can I foresee anyone complaining about having both+

Already suggested this in the NF thread. It didn't get much of a response either way negative or positive.

I think it's a good idea and just the particulars of how it's implemented need adjusting.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:35 PM by PingGuy

IamKaia wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:24 PM
And its not subjective or interpretation when you say that you base yourself upon a patch lvl where OF is in place, to say that NF is out of place at that patch level. Come on man.

You are misinterpreting their intent. This server will be whatever it is they want it to be. But they had to start somewhere, so they picked a patch level and worked from there. The starting point makes no guarantees about the ending point, it's just information. That doesn't mean it won't stay more classic, but it doesn't mean it will either.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:51 PM by Darwar

Pick one and stick with it, none of this back and forth and trying to support two version with different mobs, keeps and what not. If you know anything about game development, this would be a lose strategy for a game with zero revenue.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:02 PM by teiloh

Tigerforce wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:14 PM
IamKaia wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:41 AM
Tigerforce wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:37 AM
Page says nothing about it being a "Classic" server, only what patch they picked to go with. That does not imply they are strictly a classic server or Uthgard Plus. They are their own creation and will evolve the game to the majority of input form the community (I would assume).

You are only disappointing yourself by labeling it something it's not.

Saying you take patch 1.65 as a base line strongly implies it's DAOC classic. Just have a read of the patchnotes yourself if you don't believe me. I don't see any mention of NF there, do you?

Furthermore, I think it's a "overly vocal minority" that keeps asking for NF, many people just did not even log this week all together because of the test
I am convinced NF would deal a hard blow to the server population.

Well then it's subjective on whether a person interprets it as a Classic server or not.

I would not say the people asking for NF is the minority. Perhaps here on forums, but def not in the chat channels within the game. For every one person I see asking for OF, there's 2-3 who chime in about how and why NF is better. Take into account too not everyone who plays the game always get on the forums to see what's happening. Doesn't mean they're not dedicated players, does not mean they are a minority or majority.

I have only played this server for almost two months. On avg, from when I started, I have seen around 6-800 people on during prime and around 400 when it's "dead". During the first few days I noticed that recently spiked to over 1,500+ by far the most I've ever seen on. These are numbers I look at daily, even before NF or any news of it. This means even if the core number of "dedicated" players is 700, that number nearly doubled during times just due to NF coming out. That number did not dwindle because of NF coming out. Even if half of the "core 700" players left due to NF, with the amount that joined it would still be a greater number.

https://unixgeek.com/phoenix.html

Population did drop during NF test, but not by a lot.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:14 PM by Tigerforce

Darwar wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:51 PM
Pick one and stick with it, none of this back and forth and trying to support two version with different mobs, keeps and what not. If you know anything about game development, this would be a lose strategy for a game with zero revenue.

Its about having actual "Events". They started with BG and Duel zone already, why not have a monthly event of keep taking and what not in NF. Not a lose strategy.... People participated by the masses in both event 1500+ easily. However, just not long term. SO again, keep OF and every now and then bring an Event that is NF or a BG, possibly even some kind of Mordred town event.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 8:09 PM by Dacht

A couple things:

1. The idea of rotating OF/NF or having an occasional NF event is not a terrible idea, even if I strongly prefer OF.

2. Since this server was presented as using 1.65 as the foundation, and at no point during beta or the months leading up to launch was NF a part of the plan, it is pretty asinine to argue that Phoenix in it's inception was not intended as a classic themed server.

3. The above statement does not mean the devs cannot change the nature of their server at any time.

4. You cannot please everyone no matter what you do, and people stomping their feet and shouting ultimatums really do not deserve a say in this decision.

That said, I did not come here to play NF and personally hope OF is where we land.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 8:22 PM by cere2

How about implementing NF and having OF as a feature?

Also, this garbage about 1.65 meaning it was designed as classic only server...so tired of hearing this.
Phoenix has never said they were a classic server. They may have chosen 1.65 for any number of reasons. Balance I would imagine.

If it was classic we would not have NF RA's. Period.

It's custom. Nowhere on the main page does it say anything about OF or changing to NF, so its all speculation.

Mon 17 Jun 2019 8:34 PM by DMXTRON

I think having 1 week every month be NF would be cool. Have a competition since NF is more keeptake/zerg oriented. Whichever realm does best during NF gets a month long buff to RP or something.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:53 AM by Dacht

Cere, you are only tired of hearing about it because it doesn't match your preference, plain and simple.

It is most probable that 1.65 was chosen because it has been historically agreed upon as a high point in DAOC's run, and it was a specific period of time that players were fond of and wished to emulate. By the way, OF was a part of that patch, so a definitive announcement was not neccessary. It is simple logic, backed by the fact that throughout beta and launch, OF was in fact the only model used, that people would assume that it would be a part of this server.

You just like to shout down anyone with a different opinion, which is a popular tactic, but not very original or compelling. Being insistent and passionate doesn't make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's. Its this sort of thinking has players berating other players because they don't respect imginary 1v1 rules in an open PvP zone. And yes, I know, it just show lack of skill and noobdom to add on a fight, blah, blah, blah....

The devs can do what they like, and if they choose to implement NF that will be their decision, and they have th eright to do what they want with this free shard they are kind enough to provide and work on.

I, like many other players, was drawn to Phoenix in large part because it was operating on 1.65 and OF. If beta and launch had included NF I would not have rolled on the server. Why? I played on NF for years and years. I don't miss it. I missed the nostalgia of DAOC's early days, and so did alot of other people. So as I have said many times before: I did not come here to play in NF, I could have done that with my already established toons on live.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 3:57 AM by Anelyn77

Each of us have our own points for NF or OF. No matter what will happen, not everyone will be pleased. There will always be zergs, 8m, smallmen and soloers out there. However in OF the interaction between those is more limited, while in NF there's more room (no hard chokepoints) for all types to run around and have their fun.
Keeps sieges are awful in OF, it's well known, keep design is buggy as hell, LoS is a huge problem, defenders can't do anything vs attackers until they break inner doors etc.

Everyone is just too used to port hib / emain for "instant action" but how good is that action is debatable at best, meanwhile in NF you have higher chance of quality 1v1, 2v2, 8mvs8m and even zerg vs zerg, but you need to move more to find it. So it's like fast food for OF vs quality 5 star restaurant in the other part of the town for NF. If you just want your belly stuffed with no care for what you eat, OF is shining bright star, if you appreciate your food, you probably enjoy more NF.

Thing is at the end of the day, irrelevant of which one will remain or what other updates will come, peeps will only stay on phoenix as long as they are having fun playing their own way, when that stops, they will simply stop playing daoc all together and move to something else.

My 2 cents.

/Bnotashamed paci healer <Chaos Crowd> AND Aicha mentalist <Emerald Knights>

Tue 18 Jun 2019 5:36 PM by Tigerforce

Dacht wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:53 AM
Cere, you are only tired of hearing about it because it doesn't match your preference, plain and simple.

It is most probable that 1.65 was chosen because it has been historically agreed upon as a high point in DAOC's run, and it was a specific period of time that players were fond of and wished to emulate. By the way, OF was a part of that patch, so a definitive announcement was not neccessary. It is simple logic, backed by the fact that throughout beta and launch, OF was in fact the only model used, that people would assume that it would be a part of this server.

You just like to shout down anyone with a different opinion, which is a popular tactic, but not very original or compelling. Being insistent and passionate doesn't make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's. Its this sort of thinking has players berating other players because they don't respect imginary 1v1 rules in an open PvP zone. And yes, I know, it just show lack of skill and noobdom to add on a fight, blah, blah, blah....

The devs can do what they like, and if they choose to implement NF that will be their decision, and they have th eright to do what they want with this free shard they are kind enough to provide and work on.

I, like many other players, was drawn to Phoenix in large part because it was operating on 1.65 and OF. If beta and launch had included NF I would not have rolled on the server. Why? I played on NF for years and years. I don't miss it. I missed the nostalgia of DAOC's early days, and so did alot of other people. So as I have said many times before: I did not come here to play in NF, I could have done that with my already established toons on live.

Dacht, well said for the most part.

I don't believe OF is superior to NF or vice versa. However, I did come here as well to play OF regardless if its not as efficient as NF. That being said, OF can get frustrating at times with its setup. Being locked in a port zone and the exit being camped especially at non peak hours where groups are scarce can hurt the lower population. People who enjoy solo'ing or duo's simply cannot play. (Event if you consider it a non solo game, It is still a possible aspect many wish and enjoy to do). NF does allow a multitude of ways to get around such camp tactics, if you are indeed in search of a solo or duo ect…

All that being said I think its important to find a way to have both aspects. OF, since in essence that is why we all started here, But we need NF every now and then for those other aspects and situations. Which is why I recommended some form of rotation.

Tue 18 Jun 2019 8:02 PM by teiloh

NF is not a "good meal". It's like slow food except it's no better than "fast food". There's more empty space if you want to use 3rd party tools to setup or find fights, but that's it. 20-30 minutes a fight is god-****ing awful and I'd literally play any other game to avoid it. It's not an OF/NF dichotomy, there are other games. I like DAOC but I don't like it enough to wait half an hour for fights.

If MGs are a problem, just let underpop realms buy strong mercenaries that slowly push to the MG and significantly help clear it.