It is an attempt to fix something that is not broken. Sure, juggling buffs in solo play is annoying but anyone that solos is used to that because even on live its still a thing. And why did you nerf group play that involves charging items? Not only is it now incentivized to respec on Druid's and Clerics (who didn't receive a free respec), the acuity buff is still worse than the pre-nerf charge and if you are buffing 3 or 4 red acuities you won't have the conc for other things that were also covered by charges. There is QOL and there is whatever this is, but this is not QOL.
Petition to remove the buff changes
Started 12 May 2019
by
playtester99
Tue 14 May 2019 4:09 AM
by
LedriTheThane
The juggling and 10 minute timers were never an issue. The only issue was the cost charge (which, for some reason, they felt didn't eliminate any of the "problems" which weren't problems in the first place). As a soloer, the new changes ruined soloing not just for me, but for many others. Please revert soon. Thanks.
Tue 14 May 2019 7:26 AM
by
inoeth
Why did it ruin solo play? I only play solo and it feels much smoother now.
Tue 14 May 2019 8:02 AM
by
Sepplord
LedriTheThane wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 4:09 AMThe juggling and 10 minute timers were never an issue. The only issue was the cost charge (which, for some reason, they felt didn't eliminate any of the "problems" which weren't problems in the first place). As a soloer, the new changes ruined soloing not just for me, but for many others. Please revert soon. Thanks.
Goldsinks are needed for the game, otherwise the inflation would be even bigger than it was. YOU personally might think different, but for the gameserver the goldsinks are needed and the opposite of a problem.
Similar, the charge juggling was not an issue for YOU, but i know several people who didn't like being subpar or having to stand around 60% of their gametime waiting for chargetimers. That'S an unfun gameplay loop. And it reduces the amount of people actively doing RvR by reducing the fraction of their playtime that they actively run into RvR.
Tue 14 May 2019 9:20 AM
by
Hangel
Idem, I play solo and cannot feel the difference... other solo have same buff... Now I use 1 potion, have AF and haste with that use, and I don't need to use 2 charge for spec. Now I can use ablative and my weapon can proc 75 AF so there is a sense to use it. And at the end I don t need to spend 100 gold for recharge or find the use down when I need it. Consider I play 50% of my time in DF and I cannot recharge spec with old system.
Tue 14 May 2019 10:03 AM
by
Lillebror
Only bad i see with this is that solo ppl takeing on duo's with buffs is even harder now.
Tue 14 May 2019 10:10 AM
by
inoeth
the only thing i can see why some people dont like the changes is that before that they always ran full buffed and therefore had an advantage over the people who did not charge red buffs. this advantage is gone now but imo thats a good thing.
Tue 14 May 2019 2:03 PM
by
chryso
inoeth wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 10:10 AMthe only thing i can see why some people dont like the changes is that before that they always ran full buffed and therefore had an advantage over the people who did not charge red buffs. this advantage is gone now but imo thats a good thing.
Exactly, all the whining is because now they can't win if everyone is equally buffed.
Tue 14 May 2019 2:20 PM
by
Yokahu
I play 95% solo and all my stats are now higher than before thanks to the QoL charge/pots change.
Heck, I even won my first 1vs2 with my infil last night against two RR3/4 SBs. With these changes, skills now play a crucial role in the fights outcome since the playing field is now leveled.
Heck, I even won my first 1vs2 with my infil last night against two RR3/4 SBs. With these changes, skills now play a crucial role in the fights outcome since the playing field is now leveled.
Tue 14 May 2019 3:56 PM
by
LedriTheThane
Sepplord wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 8:02 AMLedriTheThane wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 4:09 AMThe juggling and 10 minute timers were never an issue. The only issue was the cost charge (which, for some reason, they felt didn't eliminate any of the "problems" which weren't problems in the first place). As a soloer, the new changes ruined soloing not just for me, but for many others. Please revert soon. Thanks.
Goldsinks are needed for the game, otherwise the inflation would be even bigger than it was. YOU personally might think different, but for the gameserver the goldsinks are needed and the opposite of a problem.
Similar, the charge juggling was not an issue for YOU, but i know several people who didn't like being subpar or having to stand around 60% of their gametime waiting for chargetimers. That'S an unfun gameplay loop. And it reduces the amount of people actively doing RvR by reducing the fraction of their playtime that they actively run into RvR.
It was only a goldsink for solo players. Most people run in groups and they never had to worry about it. The vast majority of people still caused inflation.
I still find myself waiting at the portal keeps for minutes at a time anyways. Waiting for RA cd's to get undone, waiting for the 1 minute cooldown of the combined forces potion to get undone (since the devs didn't want to reset that on release). You also don't need to wait around at the portal keeps for this stuff either, that's your own choice.
Tue 14 May 2019 3:57 PM
by
LedriTheThane
Yokahu wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 2:20 PMI play 95% solo and all my stats are now higher than before thanks to the QoL charge/pots change.
Heck, I even won my first 1vs2 with my infil last night against two RR3/4 SBs. With these changes, skills now play a crucial role in the fights outcome since the playing field is now leveled.
Someone didn't use the charge items before then.
Tue 14 May 2019 4:42 PM
by
Yokahu
LedriTheThane wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 3:57 PMYokahu wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 2:20 PMI play 95% solo and all my stats are now higher than before thanks to the QoL charge/pots change.
Heck, I even won my first 1vs2 with my infil last night against two RR3/4 SBs. With these changes, skills now play a crucial role in the fights outcome since the playing field is now leveled.
Someone didn't use the charge items before then.
Gotta say, your ability to state the obvious impresses me; good job nailing that down.
Anyway, I didn’t want to waste the limited time I had farming in PvE just to finance my RvR (my main interest in the game). So yeah, I wasn’t going to use 3 expensive charges that lasted for 10mins just to stay on top of every casual out there.
Tue 14 May 2019 4:51 PM
by
Sektor
Yokahu wrote: [quote=LedriTheThane post_id=64130 time=<a href="tel:1557849474">1557849474</a> user_id=13378]
[quote=Yokahu post_id=64111 time=<a href="tel:1557843625">1557843625</a> user_id=193417]
I play 95% solo and all my stats are now higher than before thanks to the QoL charge/pots change.
Heck, I even won my first 1vs2 with my infil last night against two RR3/4 SBs. With these changes, skills now play a crucial role in the fights outcome since the playing field is now leveled.
Someone didn't use the charge items before then.
[/quote]
Gotta say, your ability to state the obvious impresses me; good job nailing that down.
Anyway, I didn’t want to waste the limited time I had farming in PvE just to finance my RvR (my main interest in the game). So yeah, I wasn’t going to use 3 expensive charges that lasted for 10mins just to stay on top of every casual out there.
[/quote]
I totally agree I’m greatly in favor of the new changes.
Tue 14 May 2019 4:59 PM
by
Svekt
Players that left to charge nerfs did not leave because they lost an advantage. They left because they lost time and energy they put into their characters and were not offered a refund for these items until we were persistent in asking. On top of that, it was a second slap in the face to only receive 50% of your feathers back. Furthermore, there are constantly changes to the Meta. The changes are just too frequent but it is a result of the community begging for them.
People built their toons around these charges, achieving cap swing speed etc. This all started at launch, and to change it now just broke spirits.
I played this game to be competitive, and part of skill is managing those timers. You just gave something to everyone who didn't do anything to earn it and you did it way late in the server’s life. Major changes, as stated elsewhere throughout this forum, should be done either in beta or right out of the gate before it has a massive trickle effect. If I knew at the beginning that charge values would be nerfed etc., then I would be adapting from the beginning.
All that being said…you are all still using different charges now. Now everyone using legion heals, ablative charges, and da charges instead of str/con dex/quick and spec af. So what did you really change besides people having to waste more time acquiring new items they have to run with?
I'll be honest when I say this change definitely had a negative impact on our guild. I left game and don't intend to be around soon. I still read forums out of my love for daoc and maybe one day a patch will come along that entices me to return.
Phoenix devs in general did a wonderful job putting this together. I personally thank them for the last few months of fun but it is no longer enticing to play here.
KEY NOTE: A lot of players left LIVE to play daoc on a FREE server. Note, FREE SERVER, not classic server. When they came here, they could not adjust to the classic setting and its brutality and beauty. They start asking for better buff potions similar to live's supremacy potions. They start asking for abilities and changes to classes that would be reflective of live like celerity in all three realms or the ability to have multiple pulses running at once to make it easier. Live players and their constant cries to make everything generic and all the realms copy and pastes of each other is why I left live in the first place. Now they are here ruining this server asking for unwanted changes.
1.65 was great while it lasted. Thank you for that. As usual it’s the community to blame and not the devs or game masters.
People built their toons around these charges, achieving cap swing speed etc. This all started at launch, and to change it now just broke spirits.
I played this game to be competitive, and part of skill is managing those timers. You just gave something to everyone who didn't do anything to earn it and you did it way late in the server’s life. Major changes, as stated elsewhere throughout this forum, should be done either in beta or right out of the gate before it has a massive trickle effect. If I knew at the beginning that charge values would be nerfed etc., then I would be adapting from the beginning.
All that being said…you are all still using different charges now. Now everyone using legion heals, ablative charges, and da charges instead of str/con dex/quick and spec af. So what did you really change besides people having to waste more time acquiring new items they have to run with?
I'll be honest when I say this change definitely had a negative impact on our guild. I left game and don't intend to be around soon. I still read forums out of my love for daoc and maybe one day a patch will come along that entices me to return.
Phoenix devs in general did a wonderful job putting this together. I personally thank them for the last few months of fun but it is no longer enticing to play here.
KEY NOTE: A lot of players left LIVE to play daoc on a FREE server. Note, FREE SERVER, not classic server. When they came here, they could not adjust to the classic setting and its brutality and beauty. They start asking for better buff potions similar to live's supremacy potions. They start asking for abilities and changes to classes that would be reflective of live like celerity in all three realms or the ability to have multiple pulses running at once to make it easier. Live players and their constant cries to make everything generic and all the realms copy and pastes of each other is why I left live in the first place. Now they are here ruining this server asking for unwanted changes.
1.65 was great while it lasted. Thank you for that. As usual it’s the community to blame and not the devs or game masters.
Tue 14 May 2019 5:39 PM
by
Yokahu
Svekt wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 4:59 PMPlayers that left to charge nerfs did not leave because they lost an advantage. They left because they lost time and energy they put into their characters and were not offered a refund for these items until we were persistent in asking. On top of that, it was a second slap in the face to only receive 50% of your feathers back. Furthermore, there are constantly changes to the Meta. The changes are just too frequent but it is a result of the community begging for them.
People built their toons around these charges, achieving cap swing speed etc. This all started at launch, and to change it now just broke spirits.
I played this game to be competitive, and part of skill is managing those timers. You just gave something to everyone who didn't do anything to earn it and you did it way late in the server’s life. Major changes, as stated elsewhere throughout this forum, should be done either in beta or right out of the gate before it has a massive trickle effect. If I knew at the beginning that charge values would be nerfed etc., then I would be adapting from the beginning.
All that being said…you are all still using different charges now. Now everyone using legion heals, ablative charges, and da charges instead of str/con dex/quick and spec af. So what did you really change besides people having to waste more time acquiring new items they have to run with?
I'll be honest when I say this change definitely had a negative impact on our guild. I left game and don't intend to be around soon. I still read forums out of my love for daoc and maybe one day a patch will come along that entices me to return.
Phoenix devs in general did a wonderful job putting this together. I personally thank them for the last few months of fun but it is no longer enticing to play here.
KEY NOTE: A lot of players left LIVE to play daoc on a FREE server. Note, FREE SERVER, not classic server. When they came here, they could not adjust to the classic setting and its brutality and beauty. They start asking for better buff potions similar to live's supremacy potions. They start asking for abilities and changes to classes that would be reflective of live like celerity in all three realms or the ability to have multiple pulses running at once to make it easier. Live players and their constant cries to make everything generic and all the realms copy and pastes of each other is why I left live in the first place. Now they are here ruining this server asking for unwanted changes.
1.65 was great while it lasted. Thank you for that. As usual it’s the community to blame and not the devs or game masters.
You shouldn’t generalize; you don’t speak for everyone that left (like you are doing in the very first sentence). There are multiple posts in these forums of players explaining why they are saying their goodbyes... spoiler, there are several different reasons.
You say you played to be competitive, but how leveling the field make you any less competitive? It really sound that you are crying because you lost your advantage... smh
Phoenix was not intended to be true to 1.65, so I don’t get why you are saying “1.65 was great while it lasted”; you were misinformed from the very beginning. I think you are better of going back to Uthgard to be honest.
Tue 14 May 2019 6:23 PM
by
Cswag80
I ran charges and farmed to have all charges on the 3 toons I RVR with and I'm fine with and enjoying the changes. I even turned in what I don't need now for feathers(even it is only half) to grab some things for a 4th toon I plan to RVR with.
I got lots of use from the items and still was able to get back a lot of the feathers. It actually saved me from having to farm more.
I got lots of use from the items and still was able to get back a lot of the feathers. It actually saved me from having to farm more.
Tue 14 May 2019 6:46 PM
by
Leandrys
Was running charges before the nerf and honnestly, if it feels bitter for the feathers/time involved, the gameplay now feels healthier than before.
Tue 14 May 2019 6:52 PM
by
LedriTheThane
Yokahu wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 4:42 PMLedriTheThane wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 3:57 PMYokahu wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 2:20 PMI play 95% solo and all my stats are now higher than before thanks to the QoL charge/pots change.
Heck, I even won my first 1vs2 with my infil last night against two RR3/4 SBs. With these changes, skills now play a crucial role in the fights outcome since the playing field is now leveled.
Someone didn't use the charge items before then.
Gotta say, your ability to state the obvious impresses me; good job nailing that down.
Anyway, I didn’t want to waste the limited time I had farming in PvE just to finance my RvR (my main interest in the game). So yeah, I wasn’t going to use 3 expensive charges that lasted for 10mins just to stay on top of every casual out there.
Gotta say, your ability to act condescending while simultaneously refusing to play at the required level so you want an easier, more casualized experience impresses me; good job nailing that down.
Tue 14 May 2019 7:03 PM
by
Yokahu
LedriTheThane wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 6:52 PMYokahu wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 4:42 PM
Gotta say, your ability to state the obvious impresses me; good job nailing that down.
Anyway, I didn’t want to waste the limited time I had farming in PvE just to finance my RvR (my main interest in the game). So yeah, I wasn’t going to use 3 expensive charges that lasted for 10mins just to stay on top of every casual out there.
Gotta say, your ability to act condescending while simultaneously refusing to play at the required level so you want an easier, more casualized experience impresses me; good job nailing that down.
The irony of this post thou... noice!
You are just another elitist, bitter for losing your advantage against casuals.
Oh, and I never said I wanted it easier... I chose not to run my charges (as explained above) but I always jumped into RvR (solo) even thou I knew I was at a disadvantage against fully charged players. I did lobbied for an even playing field thou.
Tue 14 May 2019 7:34 PM
by
Kappu
LedriTheThane wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 6:52 PMGotta say, your ability to act condescending while simultaneously refusing to play at the required level so you want an easier, more casualized experience impresses me; good job nailing that down.
Ledri, you act like you planned your character to be played a certain way and this QoL was so detrimental to your class, yet you won't adapt to the change only complain about it....... Did you plan to play a Caster Thane the day you created the character? Genuinely curious and it's funny that you make assumptions about someone refusing to play at a certain level when that's exactly what you are doing now.....
Tue 14 May 2019 8:06 PM
by
Mavella
Well if we want a truly even playing field we better remove all realm rank and standardize stats among archetypes so no one feels left out. God forbid someone has while another has not. If the acquisition of 2 charge items is too overwhelming maybe MMOs are the wrong genre for you.
You people play an progression based MMORPG and the whine when someone who puts more time and effort into the game had an advantage over you. If you want a completely level playing field online checkers might be a better fit.
You people play an progression based MMORPG and the whine when someone who puts more time and effort into the game had an advantage over you. If you want a completely level playing field online checkers might be a better fit.
Tue 14 May 2019 8:14 PM
by
LedriTheThane
Kappu wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 7:34 PMLedriTheThane wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 6:52 PMGotta say, your ability to act condescending while simultaneously refusing to play at the required level so you want an easier, more casualized experience impresses me; good job nailing that down.
Ledri, you act like you planned your character to be played a certain way and this QoL was so detrimental to your class, yet you won't adapt to the change only complain about it....... Did you plan to play a Caster Thane the day you created the character? Genuinely curious and it's funny that you make assumptions about someone refusing to play at a certain level when that's exactly what you are doing now.....
I can easily adapt to a different playstyle, which I have been and I had respecced to be more melee, but that's not the main issue (So, nice assumption). It's that I significantly lost stats in both playstyles that hurt me solo, whereas a Friar doesn't lose much at all. Plus now that Champions actually gained more than Thanes when they had already hard countered them, they're an even worse matchup. Now to clarify, I'm not asking every class to be an even 1v1, but when a class that already isn't the best gets worse, that's detrimental to all solo thanes.
Tue 14 May 2019 8:17 PM
by
Yokahu
Mavella wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 8:06 PMWell if we want a truly even playing field we better remove all realm rank and standardize stats among archetypes so no one feels left out. God forbid someone has while another has not. If the acquisition of 2 charge items is too overwhelming maybe MMOs are the wrong genre for you.
You people play an progression based MMORPG and the whine when someone who puts more time and effort into the game had an advantage over you. If you want a completely level playing field online checkers might be a better fit.
This person is delusional; no one in the history of DAoC have mentioned to remove realm ranks (exaggerating since there might be a couple of fools out there).
No other mmorpg have such a messed up buffing system as DAoC where the unbuffed players are at a drastic disadvantage than fully buffed players.
The progression you are talking about is the realm ranks system lol. If someone wants to invest more time into the game than others it will be seen in the form of realm ranks and all the sweet abilities u get along with it. This is not the same as having vs not having stats buffs.
Tue 14 May 2019 8:29 PM
by
Kappu
LedriTheThane wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 8:14 PMI can easily adapt to a different playstyle, which I have been and I had respecced to be more melee, but that's not the main issue (So, nice assumption). It's that I significantly lost stats in both playstyles that hurt me solo, whereas a Friar doesn't lose much at all. Plus now that Champions actually gained more than Thanes when they had already hard countered them, they're an even worse matchup. Now to clarify, I'm not asking every class to be an even 1v1, but when a class that already isn't the best gets worse, that's detrimental to all solo thanes.
Friars received a buff (to make them group friendly) and already had more self buffs and better buffs than you they didn't get some exponential stat increase they were already decent and might have gained a minor boost.
Champions gained a stat boost which is minimal if the spec'd to the second to last self-buff your argument should be that the debuff delves need to be looked at and that's really the only thing to be said.... You'd have gained the same if you didn't spec high in Stormcalling.
I never said that you asked for all classes to be equal you are asking that Thanes get to do everything well because you want to value their strength stat and dex stat equally and it was never intended that way. That is exactly why they are a Hybrid and they can choose to excel one way or another or meet in the middle of the road.
I also don't believe you can easily adapt, because if you could you wouldn't be respecing just your character, but your RA's also. I don't know how you'd respec a Thane to be more melee yet retain the red s/c buff. So where is that adaptation coming from?
It's funny you get upset with someone because they have a differing opinion of the changes.......
Still didn't answer the question I'm curious about did you create your Thane from day one to be a "caster" Thane?
Oh, and to your comment about me not understanding this game I was playing when SI was released.... Guessing you were still sucking on Similac back then.
Tue 14 May 2019 8:55 PM
by
Mavella
Yokahu wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 8:17 PMMavella wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 8:06 PMWell if we want a truly even playing field we better remove all realm rank and standardize stats among archetypes so no one feels left out. God forbid someone has while another has not. If the acquisition of 2 charge items is too overwhelming maybe MMOs are the wrong genre for you.
You people play an progression based MMORPG and the whine when someone who puts more time and effort into the game had an advantage over you. If you want a completely level playing field online checkers might be a better fit.
This person is delusional; no one in the history of DAoC have mentioned to remove realm ranks (exaggerating since there might be a couple of fools out there).
No other mmorpg have such a messed up buffing system as DAoC where the unbuffed players are at a drastic disadvantage than fully buffed players.
The progression you are talking about is the realm ranks system lol. If someone wants to invest more time into the game than others it will be seen in the form of realm ranks and all the sweet abilities u get along with it. This is not the same as having vs not having stats buffs.
Well if it's all in the sake of fairness I hope you remove your buffs when coming across any levelers or players who may be running without combined forces up. It would be a travesty if you took the opportunity to easily dump on them because you had something and they didn't.
This is why your "level playing field" argument is total garbage. Ultimately you were too lazy to utilize all tools available in the game prenerf. Then you rejoice in your mediocrity/laziness and chastise those that are angry that put the time and effort into their characters to make them the best they can be only to get nerfed for no particular reason.
The only thing that's different is the 3 charges being used primarily have changed and they get used even more than the old ones. We got the pleasure of eating an 80+ Stat nerf as icing on the cake. There are still haves and have nots and being a have not still puts you at a significant disadvantage. Those that run solo/small man without a spec buffer are weaker than they used to be and there's still conc issues when full buffing certain group comps.
That's why the change is stupid and people are pissed if I haven't explained it simply enough.
Wed 15 May 2019 2:23 PM
by
Mavella
There's no crying. I find it to be an aggrevating change that did noting to bring QoL. My charge usage remains the same just 3 different ones. The story is the same for people that did and continue to use charges. As we watch the server hemorrhage players I don't want it to remain a mystery as to why.
Thanks for the comment though dipshit.
Wed 15 May 2019 7:08 PM
by
tweedledee
What I've noticed about the charge changes as a solo infil have been that I die a lot faster to two opponents. When I was running 4 charges I could maybe take one down before I died but that is now over with. I also die a lot more in 1v1s because it's basically rng and hitting the correct button patterns, but I'm okay with this. Maybe I should never be able to win 1v2 but I'm trying to figure out if there's anything I can do with my spec. I'm thinking about rolling something a little tougher if I'm always going to be fighting 1vX+1.
Fri 17 May 2019 5:20 AM
by
easytoremember
The real motive surfaces
Sat 18 May 2019 3:59 AM
by
Ebenezer
Yup, remove the buff changes. Especially the change that added combined forces potions, and the 100 charge barrels.
If you aren't a buffing class, then carry 6-8 kinds of potions and juggle timers, or go out unbuffed.
If you aren't a buffing class, then carry 6-8 kinds of potions and juggle timers, or go out unbuffed.
Thu 23 May 2019 7:55 AM
by
Sektor
How about that real vanilla feel and we remove buff potions all together? Sounds good to me.
#keephybridsviable
#keephybridsviable
Thu 23 May 2019 12:08 PM
by
kratoxin
Remove buff potions, and remove ToA weapon/cast speed RA's etc.
Thu 23 May 2019 12:49 PM
by
Sepplord
Sektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 7:55 AMHow about that real vanilla feel and we remove buff potions all together? Sounds good to me.
#keephybridsviable
yeah, hybrids were really awesome back then, every group wanted them and champs/thanes are really weak here
Selfbuffers never were balanced around fighting with their buffs VS unbuffed people
and if you jsut want to derail the thread...i don't think it is going anywhere anyways
Thu 23 May 2019 2:37 PM
by
Cythraul
Sepplord wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 12:49 PMSektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 7:55 AMHow about that real vanilla feel and we remove buff potions all together? Sounds good to me.
#keephybridsviable
yeah, hybrids were really awesome back then, every group wanted them and champs/thanes are really weak here
Selfbuffers never were balanced around fighting with their buffs VS unbuffed people
and if you jsut want to derail the thread...i don't think it is going anywhere anyways
I still don't believe at all that hybrids were balanced around everyone being fully buffed. It doesn't even make sense.
Thu 23 May 2019 2:59 PM
by
phixion
Yokahu wrote: ↑Tue 14 May 2019 7:03 PMThe irony of this post thou... noice!
You are just another elitist, bitter for losing your advantage against casuals.
Oh, and I never said I wanted it easier... I chose not to run my charges (as explained above) but I always jumped into RvR (solo) even thou I knew I was at a disadvantage against fully charged players. I did lobbied for an even playing field thou.
But it would be an even playing field if you used charges... but you chose not to? Sorry to say but anyone bitching at dying during the Charge era have no right to complain because they were simply too cheap or too lazy to use charges.
Look at the population since the Charge changes, people are not happy and have voted by leaving.
Even if Charges were brought back, I highly doubt a large number of them will return.
Thu 23 May 2019 3:03 PM
by
phixion
tweedledee wrote: ↑Wed 15 May 2019 7:08 PMWhat I've noticed about the charge changes as a solo infil have been that I die a lot faster to two opponents. When I was running 4 charges I could maybe take one down before I died but that is now over with. I also die a lot more in 1v1s because it's basically rng and hitting the correct button patterns, but I'm okay with this. Maybe I should never be able to win 1v2 but I'm trying to figure out if there's anything I can do with my spec. I'm thinking about rolling something a little tougher if I'm always going to be fighting 1vX+1.
Because, believe it or not, messing with core stats has an affect on gameplay.
Thu 23 May 2019 3:52 PM
by
Eyetunez
Cythraul wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 2:37 PMSepplord wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 12:49 PMSektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 7:55 AMHow about that real vanilla feel and we remove buff potions all together? Sounds good to me.
#keephybridsviable
yeah, hybrids were really awesome back then, every group wanted them and champs/thanes are really weak here
Selfbuffers never were balanced around fighting with their buffs VS unbuffed people
and if you jsut want to derail the thread...i don't think it is going anywhere anyways
I still don't believe at all that hybrids were balanced around everyone being fully buffed. It doesn't even make sense.
Totally agreed. I still don't understand why buff potions are necessary in general. Because friars/champs/thanes would be strong 1v1, and assassins wouldn't hit like a zerker and not have 36% evade chance? This all sounds fine to me. I feel like It wouldnt affect group/realm play at all.
Thu 23 May 2019 4:58 PM
by
phixion
Eyetunez wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 3:52 PMstill don't understand why buff potions are necessary in general. Because friars/champs/thanes would be strong 1v1, and assassins wouldn't hit like a zerker and not have 36% evade chance? This all sounds fine to me. I feel like It wouldnt affect group/realm play at all.
Do you want to completely kill any solo scene there is left?
The game just isn't fun without buffs.
Thu 23 May 2019 5:39 PM
by
Sektor
phixion wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 4:58 PMEyetunez wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 3:52 PMstill don't understand why buff potions are necessary in general. Because friars/champs/thanes would be strong 1v1, and assassins wouldn't hit like a zerker and not have 36% evade chance? This all sounds fine to me. I feel like It wouldnt affect group/realm play at all.
Do you want to completely kill any solo scene there is left?
The game just isn't fun without buffs.
Didn’t you quit playing already?
Thu 23 May 2019 5:44 PM
by
phixion
https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/PhixionSektor wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 5:39 PMphixion wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 4:58 PMEyetunez wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 3:52 PMstill don't understand why buff potions are necessary in general. Because friars/champs/thanes would be strong 1v1, and assassins wouldn't hit like a zerker and not have 36% evade chance? This all sounds fine to me. I feel like It wouldnt affect group/realm play at all.
Do you want to completely kill any solo scene there is left?
The game just isn't fun without buffs.
Didn’t you quit playing already?
Thu 23 May 2019 5:46 PM
by
Eyetunez
phixion wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 4:58 PMEyetunez wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 3:52 PMstill don't understand why buff potions are necessary in general. Because friars/champs/thanes would be strong 1v1, and assassins wouldn't hit like a zerker and not have 36% evade chance? This all sounds fine to me. I feel like It wouldnt affect group/realm play at all.
Do you want to completely kill any solo scene there is left?
The game just isn't fun without buffs.
I've posted about this before, but I suppose every "issue" has many angles based on how you like to play this game. As I don't play solo 99% of the time, I guess I just don't understand why buffs affect you. Not trying to be flamey, or a dick, I really just don't get the perspective. If you're fighting a bunch of other unbuffed people, is it not the same game? Now, when a friar comes around they're going to be strong...real strong against an unbuffed shadowblade. You probably don't want to attack that friar. Is it not OK that there are some classes in the game that you have a disadvantage against?
From my perspective, buffing classes are the ones getting screwed here and should be the ones whining and crying on these forums constantly. Spending more than half your classes points to gain 25 dex/quick over a 5g self buff is not fun. Why do we not give all of these buffing classes free purple buffs with no spec points? Because doing that would have a crazy affect on the game overall, just like buff pots do. Reaver/minstrel duo vs Bard/Bm duo is ENTIRELY different with and without buff pots.
Thu 23 May 2019 5:54 PM
by
phixion
Eyetunez wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 5:46 PMI've posted about this before, but I suppose every "issue" has many angles based on how you like to play this game. As I don't play solo 99% of the time, I guess I just don't understand why buffs affect you. Not trying to be flamey, or a dick, I really just don't get the perspective. If you're fighting a bunch of other unbuffed people, is it not the same game? Now, when a friar comes around they're going to be strong...real strong against an unbuffed shadowblade. You probably don't want to attack that friar. Is it not OK that there are some classes in the game that you have a disadvantage against?
From my perspective, buffing classes are the ones getting screwed here and should be the ones whining and crying on these forums constantly. Spending more than half your classes points to gain 25 dex/quick over a 5g self buff is not fun. Why do we not give all of these buffing classes free purple buffs with no spec points? Because doing that would have a crazy affect on the game overall, just like buff pots do. Reaver/minstrel duo vs Bard/Bm duo is ENTIRELY different with and without buff pots.
Ever tried casting spells unbuffed?
It's the same thing on melee with attack speed.
I guess it's all preference, but to me the game always felt better buffed, I liked attacking fast, having to get off my reactionaries on time etc.
Even with Charges, not all classes are a gimme on a stealther, if you think so you have never played one and I suspect you've only ever been on the receiving end of a beating from one.
"Crying" is one way of looking at it, I'd say it's more a case of people voicing their opinion.
Thu 23 May 2019 6:16 PM
by
Eyetunez
Makes sense, it would slow down the game a lot, and you wouldn't like that. I think that's a fair perspective.phixion wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 5:54 PMEyetunez wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 5:46 PMI've posted about this before, but I suppose every "issue" has many angles based on how you like to play this game. As I don't play solo 99% of the time, I guess I just don't understand why buffs affect you. Not trying to be flamey, or a dick, I really just don't get the perspective. If you're fighting a bunch of other unbuffed people, is it not the same game? Now, when a friar comes around they're going to be strong...real strong against an unbuffed shadowblade. You probably don't want to attack that friar. Is it not OK that there are some classes in the game that you have a disadvantage against?
From my perspective, buffing classes are the ones getting screwed here and should be the ones whining and crying on these forums constantly. Spending more than half your classes points to gain 25 dex/quick over a 5g self buff is not fun. Why do we not give all of these buffing classes free purple buffs with no spec points? Because doing that would have a crazy affect on the game overall, just like buff pots do. Reaver/minstrel duo vs Bard/Bm duo is ENTIRELY different with and without buff pots.
Ever tried casting spells unbuffed?
It's the same thing on melee with attack speed.
I guess it's all preference, but to me the game always felt better buffed, I liked attacking fast, having to get off my reactionaries on time etc.
Even with Charges, not all classes are a gimme on a stealther, if you think so you have never played one and I suspect you've only ever been on the receiving end of a beating from one.
"Crying" is one way of looking at it, I'd say it's more a case of people voicing their opinion.
I personally like playing 3-4 man groups, and buff pots affect these group makeups immensely, so I personally don't like them.
I don't think stealthers have free 1v1's all day vs every class, but I think buff pots make them stronger than they should be vs some classes, just like all our buff bots did back in the day.
Fri 24 May 2019 5:41 AM
by
Sepplord
Eyetunez wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 5:46 PMFrom my perspective, buffing classes are the ones getting screwed here and should be the ones whining and crying on these forums constantly. Spending more than half your classes points to gain 25 dex/quick over a 5g self buff is not fun. Why do we not give all of these buffing classes free purple buffs with no spec points? Because doing that would have a crazy affect on the game overall, just like buff pots do. Reaver/minstrel duo vs Bard/Bm duo is ENTIRELY different with and without buff pots.
It's not only assassins though that a friar would be strong against. Soloing on anything but a selfbuffer would be plain pointless without buffs. Smallmanning without a buffclass would be completely pointless. Buffs are just FAR too strong in this game, and without buffpots the selfbuffing/buffing speclines would be completely over the top
Most classes with selfbuffs spec them anyways, despite buffpots being widely available. Why do they do that if that specline is so crappy? Because it isn't.
Fri 24 May 2019 4:07 PM
by
Cythraul
Sepplord wrote: ↑Fri 24 May 2019 5:41 AMEyetunez wrote: ↑Thu 23 May 2019 5:46 PMFrom my perspective, buffing classes are the ones getting screwed here and should be the ones whining and crying on these forums constantly. Spending more than half your classes points to gain 25 dex/quick over a 5g self buff is not fun. Why do we not give all of these buffing classes free purple buffs with no spec points? Because doing that would have a crazy affect on the game overall, just like buff pots do. Reaver/minstrel duo vs Bard/Bm duo is ENTIRELY different with and without buff pots.
It's not only assassins though that a friar would be strong against. Soloing on anything but a selfbuffer would be plain pointless without buffs. Smallmanning without a buffclass would be completely pointless. Buffs are just FAR too strong in this game, and without buffpots the selfbuffing/buffing speclines would be completely over the top
Most classes with selfbuffs spec them anyways, despite buffpots being widely available. Why do they do that if that specline is so crappy? Because it isn't.
If buffing classes are required for smallman then I guess smallman groups would start picking up buffing classes. You already see shammy/bard/friar in smallman so aren't they already there, giving buffs? Stealthers can already pick their targets so they aren't impacted unless they choose to be, and the stealthers that have self buffs would have their inherent advantages back. Non self-buff classes would be just as effective solo as they are now (ie getting run over by zergs, added on, etc).
People spec their class-defining lines for more than the self buffs because not to would be stupid. Champ without debuffs? Friars without absorb buffs, resists and haste? Thanes without LIGHTNING?? I don't think so. The issue is that the classes were made to include self buffs to compensate for what they lacked, like being on lower damage tables. This whole argument is moot anyway. The changes that have already been made here to spec lines, spec point amounts, damage tables etc have been balanced around everyone having buffs on this server. You know why they moved friar up on damage table? Because their self buffs were made pointless since everyone has access to their buffs. To remove the buff potions now would mean a whole new load of balance changes would need to be made, and I don't see that happening.
Fri 24 May 2019 4:54 PM
by
Cythraul
Just saw the reflex attack change, man they really hate friars don't they?
I'm out. City of Heroes private servers just started popping up and that interests me WAY more than this right now.
Ah fuck the door DID hit me in the ass on my way out :/
I'm out. City of Heroes private servers just started popping up and that interests me WAY more than this right now.
Ah fuck the door DID hit me in the ass on my way out :/
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