NF RAs or OF RAs?
What would everyone prefer?
What would everyone prefer?
New or old RA system?
Started 11 Oct 2018
by
Joc
Thu 11 Oct 2018 7:02 PM
by
Joc
I'm voting for NF RAs
Fri 12 Oct 2018 7:11 AM
by
Qri
NF RAs with tweaks
Fri 12 Oct 2018 8:48 AM
by
rubaduck
I wouldn't mind NF RR5 abilities, but the NF streamline-everyone-is-equal system is bullcrap.
Fri 12 Oct 2018 2:32 PM
by
Magesty
NF was well designed and addressed a lot of the fundamental issues with OF and old RAs. I think a large portion of the people that hate it do so because it goes hand in hand with ToA in their minds. This doesn't have to be the case. The Classic Servers pre-labyrinth/dragon changes were hands down the best DAoC experience I've ever had. There were a ton of options for a small man/solo player in RvR. The game felt somewhat balanced and due to the layout of new frontiers any set up could find success. Unfortunately, Mythic/EA immediately began to introduce class balance changes and new items without balancing them for a classic setting and it threw the servers way out of wack. The release of Labyrinth spread out an already dwindling RvR population and the broken op dragon items and mythirians (Heals for days) served as the final nail in the coffin.
A few things would have to be altered if a change was made to NF RAs.
1) Increase of timers- I think the timers scaling down so much with higher ability ranks made higher RRs a little too powerful. My understanding is this has a huge impact on 8v8.
2) Viper- Would have to be removed, especially with the vastly lower health pools on a classic style server.
3) Physical Defense- This ability was so hilariously overpowered on the classic shards, especially for classes like BDs and Rangers. It would have to be removed from non casters and reduced in value as well.
4) Charge- Charge is a polarizing ability. On one hand it is a great tool for light tanks to deal with CC and close the gap. On the other hand it has very little counter play and can feel oppressive. It also makes light tanks far more desirable than hybrids and heavy tanks (although the heavy tank changes helped things). The ability would likely have to be removed or scaled back to keep light tanks in line.
5) Review of RR5s- I think a lot of these were well done, but some are garbage and some are a little over-tuned. It would be nice to see them brought into line.
I don't think the devs have any intention of changing anything, and I will certainly play the server regardless, but damn old RAs blow.
A few things would have to be altered if a change was made to NF RAs.
1) Increase of timers- I think the timers scaling down so much with higher ability ranks made higher RRs a little too powerful. My understanding is this has a huge impact on 8v8.
2) Viper- Would have to be removed, especially with the vastly lower health pools on a classic style server.
3) Physical Defense- This ability was so hilariously overpowered on the classic shards, especially for classes like BDs and Rangers. It would have to be removed from non casters and reduced in value as well.
4) Charge- Charge is a polarizing ability. On one hand it is a great tool for light tanks to deal with CC and close the gap. On the other hand it has very little counter play and can feel oppressive. It also makes light tanks far more desirable than hybrids and heavy tanks (although the heavy tank changes helped things). The ability would likely have to be removed or scaled back to keep light tanks in line.
5) Review of RR5s- I think a lot of these were well done, but some are garbage and some are a little over-tuned. It would be nice to see them brought into line.
I don't think the devs have any intention of changing anything, and I will certainly play the server regardless, but damn old RAs blow.
Sun 14 Oct 2018 8:04 AM
by
Pendalith
custom/both with tweaks
Sun 14 Oct 2018 10:29 AM
by
schreon
This. The Phoenix RvR experience is already very unique and custom. And this is a good thing. We have 18 years of experience today, with tons of hindsight, which Mythic had not back then.
For me, Phoenix feels is like entering a time machine, move back in time (to 1.65), kill Hitler ( = EA and Mythic ) and watch as people rewrite history in the spirit of the playerbase (instead of a for-profit company).
This means, the story can go on, imho there is no imperative to stick to one certain state of the game. I am excited where the journey goes, and I would like to encourage the Phoenix staff to carefully, but still boldly continue doing their thing. There will always be people coming up with over-the-top ideas as well as conservative 1.65-puritists. I am very confident the Phoenix staff will always strike a happy medium.
In that sense, I feel that looking at certain things NF did better and things that are problematic in OF is mandatory.
Mon 15 Oct 2018 12:58 AM
by
Ombrix
Mix of both , customed by Phoenix staff would be interesting.
-old RAs is not that good and balanced, timer etc are somehow stupid, we fight every 2/3 mins , reuse timer 30 mins is way too much. I will agree with some OP Ras to stay with a high reuse timer , but not 30mins.
-nf RAs is stupid somehow. People play some class JUST because of some powerfull RAs that make you win if you press it.
I like that alb/hib/mid got some personal RAs by the way.
Phoenix devs got a good view for many things, i really hope on them to make everyone happy👌🏽. ( i mean, solo,small,8mans,zerg )
I got a idea since many years ^^ i share it to you maybe it’s not that bad : if we reduces the timer of some huge CCs like 1min mez etc, reduce the imunity timer btw, and give Purge to a support class like drood right now for exemple , but with a 30secs/1min (or lil bit more i don’t know) couldown and can be only casted on a target (except when you are solo, this purge is for yourself possible, something like that ) For me Purge should be Only a support spell. ( support exemple = drood , cleric, friar, warden, shammy, minstrel etc etc )
Like if you did a great job and mez everyone around, for me it’s lil bit unfair that people just press 1 button and avoid the great job from the mezer for exemple. And there we go for the support job, you need to be way more carefully about mez , because only you can remove it. Mez should be max 25 or 30secs, you got way enough time to change the way of the fight.
1 min mez is like you don’t play anymore ^^ i hate when we don’t give to people accès to do something, slam 9 sec = you die, mez 1 min , your group died, and you can just watch what’s going on. I don’t know , just a idea .
-old RAs is not that good and balanced, timer etc are somehow stupid, we fight every 2/3 mins , reuse timer 30 mins is way too much. I will agree with some OP Ras to stay with a high reuse timer , but not 30mins.
-nf RAs is stupid somehow. People play some class JUST because of some powerfull RAs that make you win if you press it.
I like that alb/hib/mid got some personal RAs by the way.
Phoenix devs got a good view for many things, i really hope on them to make everyone happy👌🏽. ( i mean, solo,small,8mans,zerg )
I got a idea since many years ^^ i share it to you maybe it’s not that bad : if we reduces the timer of some huge CCs like 1min mez etc, reduce the imunity timer btw, and give Purge to a support class like drood right now for exemple , but with a 30secs/1min (or lil bit more i don’t know) couldown and can be only casted on a target (except when you are solo, this purge is for yourself possible, something like that ) For me Purge should be Only a support spell. ( support exemple = drood , cleric, friar, warden, shammy, minstrel etc etc )
Like if you did a great job and mez everyone around, for me it’s lil bit unfair that people just press 1 button and avoid the great job from the mezer for exemple. And there we go for the support job, you need to be way more carefully about mez , because only you can remove it. Mez should be max 25 or 30secs, you got way enough time to change the way of the fight.
1 min mez is like you don’t play anymore ^^ i hate when we don’t give to people accès to do something, slam 9 sec = you die, mez 1 min , your group died, and you can just watch what’s going on. I don’t know , just a idea .
Fri 19 Oct 2018 7:16 AM
by
magicbuns
Old RAs....why is this even a poll? This is a classic server...Dev's are already making tweaks.
Sat 20 Oct 2018 6:33 AM
by
Sei
New RA without charge and keeping the unique Ra per realm
Sun 21 Oct 2018 12:02 AM
by
daocgod
That is how it should be. The exclusive RA's are imbalanced. However I don't think new ra sos and charge would be fun to play against with tanks already 3 shotting casters, getting in even easier would make it unplayable.rubaduck wrote: I wouldn't mind NF RR5 abilities, but the NF streamline-everyone-is-equal system is bullcrap.
Sun 21 Oct 2018 1:09 AM
by
Cadebrennus
After all of the stealth zerging and all of the stealth whines that go along with it, definitely NF RAs
Fri 26 Oct 2018 3:28 AM
by
depth
Honestly, that would be a massive improvement to what we have currently. I really dont see why it is necessary to leave RA imbalance per realm with the 'unique ra', but if that's what it takes to get rid of the trash system in place now, I could go for it..
Why is it that you think the OP RA should be left realm specific though if I may ask? These abilities are the biggest disparity in RA imbalance, the central most problem of the RA system. It seems like a job half done to switch to NF RA but leave in the worst aspect of Old RA, even in their updated forms.
Also, charge cannot be left out of NF RA though, in my opinion. To much favour to caster with NF RA and no compensation for tanks seems like a terrible idea. I'm all for caster meta, too much zZzzZZ melee stick setups in beta, but it would be pretty rediculous to not compensate the tanks when casters will benefit the most from NF RA.
Fri 26 Oct 2018 7:54 AM
by
Sei
depth wrote: ↑Fri 26 Oct 2018 3:28 AM
Honestly, that would be a massive improvement to what we have currently. I really dont see why it is necessary to leave RA imbalance per realm with the 'unique ra', but if that's what it takes to get rid of the trash system in place now, I could go for it..
Why is it that you think the OP RA should be left realm specific though if I may ask? These abilities are the biggest disparity in RA imbalance, the central most problem of the RA system. It seems like a job half done to switch to NF RA but leave in the worst aspect of Old RA, even in their updated forms.
Also, charge cannot be left out of NF RA though, in my opinion. To much favour to caster with NF RA and no compensation for tanks seems like a terrible idea. I'm all for caster meta, too much zZzzZZ melee stick setups in beta, but it would be pretty rediculous to not compensate the tanks when casters will benefit the most from NF RA.
If you just Swap to NF RA, i think mid tank grp would be OP because Mid as nearly BIS class on support / mele and i think at some point the lack of OP Ra mid side IS somehow compensated by that, especially healer that is just incredibly stronger than cleric or druid even if it s hazardous to go on a 1 for 1 comparison.
The unique Ra is also to please alot of people that just want it.
I think charge would be too stong without BG to compensate. Also you will not get caster meta as you Say, with MOA being removed with NF Ra + better aom+moc75%, this moc is a major nerf to caster i cant repeat it enough.
Let s go straight to the point, in the current situation mid/hib are balanced, maybe a little favor to mid , but any alb set up IS just too strong because of the SOS , and moc drain100% in caster set up which is nearly impossible to counterplay
Tue 30 Oct 2018 5:23 PM
by
depth
Sei wrote: ↑Fri 26 Oct 2018 7:54 AMdepth wrote: ↑Fri 26 Oct 2018 3:28 AM
Honestly, that would be a massive improvement to what we have currently. I really dont see why it is necessary to leave RA imbalance per realm with the 'unique ra', but if that's what it takes to get rid of the trash system in place now, I could go for it..
Why is it that you think the OP RA should be left realm specific though if I may ask? These abilities are the biggest disparity in RA imbalance, the central most problem of the RA system. It seems like a job half done to switch to NF RA but leave in the worst aspect of Old RA, even in their updated forms.
Also, charge cannot be left out of NF RA though, in my opinion. To much favour to caster with NF RA and no compensation for tanks seems like a terrible idea. I'm all for caster meta, too much zZzzZZ melee stick setups in beta, but it would be pretty rediculous to not compensate the tanks when casters will benefit the most from NF RA.
If you just Swap to NF RA, i think mid tank grp would be OP because Mid as nearly BIS class on support / mele and i think at some point the lack of OP Ra mid side IS somehow compensated by that, especially healer that is just incredibly stronger than cleric or druid even if it s hazardous to go on a 1 for 1 comparison.
The unique Ra is also to please alot of people that just want it.
I think charge would be too stong without BG to compensate. Also you will not get caster meta as you Say, with MOA being removed with NF Ra + better aom+moc75%, this moc is a major nerf to caster i cant repeat it enough.
Let s go straight to the point, in the current situation mid/hib are balanced, maybe a little favor to mid , but any alb set up IS just too strong because of the SOS , and moc drain100% in caster set up which is nearly impossible to counterplay
- NF moc is loads better than OF moc what are you talking about?! It last 2x as long, and is up 3x faster. Yes its 75% effective at rank 5, but far superior to old version. Please dont bother argue this point, you should not be repeating this cause clearly you have not played much with NF moc.
- You mention better AoM options, but dont mention casters gaining access to PD.
- You mention balance to Mid/Hib. I really dont agree here. There is no balance between any realm, never will be. You could make it less imbalanced by getting rid of RA disparity though. That leaves only class differences, which is how it should be. A much easier starting point for the dev's to tweak and adjust.
Wed 31 Oct 2018 1:01 AM
by
Cramit845
OF
Wed 31 Oct 2018 9:01 AM
by
Sei
depth wrote: ↑Tue 30 Oct 2018 5:23 PMSei wrote: ↑Fri 26 Oct 2018 7:54 AMdepth wrote: ↑Fri 26 Oct 2018 3:28 AMHonestly, that would be a massive improvement to what we have currently. I really dont see why it is necessary to leave RA imbalance per realm with the 'unique ra', but if that's what it takes to get rid of the trash system in place now, I could go for it..
Why is it that you think the OP RA should be left realm specific though if I may ask? These abilities are the biggest disparity in RA imbalance, the central most problem of the RA system. It seems like a job half done to switch to NF RA but leave in the worst aspect of Old RA, even in their updated forms.
Also, charge cannot be left out of NF RA though, in my opinion. To much favour to caster with NF RA and no compensation for tanks seems like a terrible idea. I'm all for caster meta, too much zZzzZZ melee stick setups in beta, but it would be pretty rediculous to not compensate the tanks when casters will benefit the most from NF RA.
If you just Swap to NF RA, i think mid tank grp would be OP because Mid as nearly BIS class on support / mele and i think at some point the lack of OP Ra mid side IS somehow compensated by that, especially healer that is just incredibly stronger than cleric or druid even if it s hazardous to go on a 1 for 1 comparison.
The unique Ra is also to please alot of people that just want it.
I think charge would be too stong without BG to compensate. Also you will not get caster meta as you Say, with MOA being removed with NF Ra + better aom+moc75%, this moc is a major nerf to caster i cant repeat it enough.
Let s go straight to the point, in the current situation mid/hib are balanced, maybe a little favor to mid , but any alb set up IS just too strong because of the SOS , and moc drain100% in caster set up which is nearly impossible to counterplay
- NF moc is loads better than OF moc what are you talking about?! It last 2x as long, and is up 3x faster. Yes its 75% effective at rank 5, but far superior to old version. Please dont bother argue this point, you should not be repeating this cause clearly you have not played much with NF moc.
- You mention better AoM options, but dont mention casters gaining access to PD.
- You mention balance to Mid/Hib. I really dont agree here. There is no balance between any realm, never will be. You could make it less imbalanced by getting rid of RA disparity though. That leaves only class differences, which is how it should be. A much easier starting point for the dev's to tweak and adjust.
Moc : the 75% is fuking your damage, making it easier to heal or to go oor. Plus your forget the cost of moc3. You might be right un a World of 11L but no good Nuke caster would go moc3 before very high rank. That s not the case with old moc, and it s even more true with alb set up with drain / that Can just face tank mele dmg.
However i completely agree that this moc is better for some class like theur or support in general but again it cost alot of Ra pts.
Aom :
Balance : i agree with that, but i m not sure what IS your point here, do you want to leave it unbalanced as it is today?
Wed 31 Oct 2018 11:14 AM
by
Druth
Sei wrote: ↑Wed 31 Oct 2018 9:01 AMBalance : i agree with that, but i m not sure what IS your point here, do you want to leave it unbalanced as it is today?
I read it as wanting to keep OF RA's and tweak them, instead of doing NF RA and open up another Pandoras Box.
I don't care about either, but we have OF RA's now, so lets keep them and try to make them balanced, but do so with small changes.
Example: Purge on 20 min timer, SoS/GP/BoF not affecting caster, etc... minor changes and see how it changes the dynamic.
Wed 31 Oct 2018 6:11 PM
by
poisonclover
NF with few tweaks
Thu 1 Nov 2018 4:27 PM
by
Renork
Purge on a 30 minute timer is the worst.
Sat 3 Nov 2018 2:01 PM
by
kpax
definetly NF .. i never got this about the old ra hype and classic patch
i mean must be a human special feature thinking the old times were so much better
my grandparents say the same thing but objectively they are so wrong
i mean must be a human special feature thinking the old times were so much better
my grandparents say the same thing but objectively they are so wrong
Wed 7 Nov 2018 7:49 PM
by
Dange
OLD RA please
Go play Ywain if you want the new ra system -.-
Go play Ywain if you want the new ra system -.-
Wed 7 Nov 2018 8:18 PM
by
Tydowen
From previous experience uth 1, uth 2, origins/genesis etc I enjoyed more fight under New RA.
Thu 8 Nov 2018 3:18 PM
by
Gwendolein
OLD RA with two changes:
-> Purge reduced to 15 min
-> SOS with new SOS mechanic
tada balanced game
-> Purge reduced to 15 min
-> SOS with new SOS mechanic
tada balanced game
Thu 8 Nov 2018 4:40 PM
by
poisonclover
NF RAs
Thu 8 Nov 2018 10:45 PM
by
Cider
NF RAs just seems to be a dumpfest of actives and reduced passive effectiveness.
Phoenix's take on OLD RAs before the change with some tweaks to a few OPed ones (SOS, GP etc), reduced timers to some (15 mins purge, IP etc) and removal of prereqs would be my choice.
Phoenix's take on OLD RAs before the change with some tweaks to a few OPed ones (SOS, GP etc), reduced timers to some (15 mins purge, IP etc) and removal of prereqs would be my choice.
Thu 8 Nov 2018 11:10 PM
by
Exploder
NF RA's definitely. No prerequisites, purge usable more than once a year, better/more accessible passives, and no dodger. Yes please.
Tue 13 Nov 2018 9:01 AM
by
Sei
The game just feel more balanced and giving you more strategical tools to Handle variety of situations with NF Ra than it was with old RA (only alb got them before)
Wed 14 Nov 2018 3:33 PM
by
Naturedruid
old RAs
Wed 14 Nov 2018 6:50 PM
by
Waygone
New
Thu 15 Nov 2018 6:57 AM
by
Druth
Mastery of Focus and Purge votes NF RA's.
Thu 15 Nov 2018 11:11 AM
by
cptstoni
is this the tread to blame for the pseudo nf ra's?
Sun 27 Jan 2019 2:15 AM
by
nixxo87
i hate 5 min purge, too stronk
Sun 27 Jan 2019 11:08 AM
by
Vkejai
Old
Mon 28 Jan 2019 7:08 AM
by
Cwtch
OF RA's
Mon 28 Jan 2019 10:25 AM
by
rubaduck
A mix.
I loved the diversity of having ichor on mid, sos on alb and gp on hib. But some people whined about it apparently since we now got the new RA's.
I would be happy to get the RR5 abilities, or at least the class specific RA's from OF as RR 5's. I miss Sever the Tether on mentys a LOT now.
I loved the diversity of having ichor on mid, sos on alb and gp on hib. But some people whined about it apparently since we now got the new RA's.
I would be happy to get the RR5 abilities, or at least the class specific RA's from OF as RR 5's. I miss Sever the Tether on mentys a LOT now.
Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:32 PM
by
Kyrr
Just leave things like ichor..sos and gp to the realms which had it.
atm midgard got all the gimmiks like celerity...insta ae desease...ae stun and on top of that.. sos.... out of control...
atm midgard got all the gimmiks like celerity...insta ae desease...ae stun and on top of that.. sos.... out of control...
Tue 26 Feb 2019 4:54 PM
by
Bumbles
The fact that they gave SoS to all realms, TFW to all realms, Ichor etc is really disappointing. Unique abilities for unique realms is what this game is all about. So many custom changes here. Yet the purists harp all the time about it being a "classic" server in terms of PvE...
Fri 1 Mar 2019 6:55 PM
by
Milchschnidde
I would suggesting enableing all NF rr5 abilitys to all level 50 chars and Splitting Ras between Char groups, for example (SUPPORT RA's, like devine, vehement renewal) should be optional available to all supporters for example Friars and Clerics, also to Healer and Shamans etc. Just as an example. And you would get some more RvR diversity because if a cleric does not need to spec for Perfect rezz(renewal) he could go for more Passivs (resis, faster cast, wild healing, master of healing, etc) other possibility is all spec for perfect rezz and fights would be toughter etc.
Just an idea i have here. So you have the class specific rr 5 RA and share other's between the class groups (Caster may share the same ra's) etc. same for Tank. (While hybrid get a mixture (1 aktive ra that belongs to melee 1 aktive ra that belongs to caster) DW classes in the curren state, Mercenary, Blademaster for example dont have any active ra's they can use???
In the current state you have the META chars that are mandatory just because of the one or the other Ra...
maybe someone can stick to my thoughts and or has suggestion or complains.
What about a passiv Ra to increase the number of buffs a supporter can have ? to increase the size from a maximum of 20 buffs up to 30s for example, so it wont be neccessary to have a minimum of 2 Major Supporter in a party to do some rvr.
Just an idea i have here. So you have the class specific rr 5 RA and share other's between the class groups (Caster may share the same ra's) etc. same for Tank. (While hybrid get a mixture (1 aktive ra that belongs to melee 1 aktive ra that belongs to caster) DW classes in the curren state, Mercenary, Blademaster for example dont have any active ra's they can use???
In the current state you have the META chars that are mandatory just because of the one or the other Ra...
maybe someone can stick to my thoughts and or has suggestion or complains.
What about a passiv Ra to increase the number of buffs a supporter can have ? to increase the size from a maximum of 20 buffs up to 30s for example, so it wont be neccessary to have a minimum of 2 Major Supporter in a party to do some rvr.
Sat 16 Mar 2019 9:11 PM
by
Svataruko
Why not the best of both?
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